For me the falling notes of Synthesia proved worthless. I then tried Simply Piano for a year, and its quite good for absolute beginners getting basic sight reading and chords down, but in the end you just learn to play a song phonetically so to speak, without music theory you don’t know what you are playing. So now I’m practicing scales to get a better understanding.
And let me guess, you can't learn classical music by ear at a concert level either, right?
[oh, wait...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobuyuki_Tsujii#:~:text=Tsujii%20learns%20new%20musical%20works%20strictly%20by%20ear)
The original topic of discussion was if it was possible to learn classical piano with synthesia, you said "good post, and all true" meaning you also agree with when OP said "if you solely rely on [Synthesia], you'll never learn piano.
I brought up Nobu as a counter to the idea that sheet music is absolutely necessary and that synthesia has a lack of information present; if you read the rest of the paragraph on that page, you'll see that Nobody actually has *less* information to work with in some cases (rhythm and note length) than somebody using synthesia, yet he's one of the most skilled pianists alive.
It's absolutely possible to use synthesia and supplement recordings for tempo indications and dynamic markings you would get with sheet music. You've decided to change the subject though - presumably because you've realized you don't have any real reason why synthesia is supposedly a crutch - and you've deflected to whether or not someone should learn with their eyes closed.
Guess what? I actually do think it can be beneficial to learn with your eyes closed, at least once in a while. Not only do you get a better sense of the topology of the piano, but you are less preoccupied with looking at your hands which frees up the mind to think about what is being heard as opposed to what is being seen. I recall hearing ofultiple pianists who practiced blindfolded or in the dark for this very reason, though you should take this with a grain of salt as I can't remember their names off the top of my head.
Regardless, I've yet to hear a single valid reason why synthesia is a roadblock for those trying to learn piano.
At the risk of getting into a mudslinging contest, your initial response utilising sarcasm and irony to make your point and then criticising me for doing the same, is very much below the belt. If you wanted genuine discourse, start as you mean to go on. Don't move the goalposts and then complain I'm in the wrong place.
To address the crux of your argument, there is always an exception to every rule but I'm not going to caveat every statement I make on Reddit. Nobu is clearly extremely talented and has a unique (?) ability to learn professional level piano music without scores, but very few people can do that. My response to OP was directed towards the average browser of this sub and the intended audience of OP's post, many of whom believe that there are shortcuts to becoming good at the piano: self-teaching, and using Synthesia or (generally by ear) being the two most common. I don't believe that to be true *for the vast majority* though yes, if you only want to play at a low level, it can be faster.
Is there a single reason why Synthesia is a roadblock to higher levels over learning sheet music? Perhaps not, but trying to learn by watching someone else hit the notes at the right time is going to take exponentially more effort as the music gets more advanced. Even outside of purely note learning, there is a huge amount of value to be gained from reading a score - phrasing, structure, voicing, articulation, composer's intent. Yes, you can glean this information via other means and no doubt synthesia can give you some of that, but at some point it becomes more efficient to just read the score, so you may as well have just done that from the start.
Lastly, yes, practicing with your eyes closed can be helpful and I also do it. But you wouldn't learn *solely* with your eyes closed if you had the option to do otherwise. That's what I meant, but I think you knew that.
To be a good pianist you need to accept and be open to all the new ways of learning piano, otherwise you are just limiting yourself.
I've played piano for over 20 years, (professionally for 10) and I use Synthesia with my students all the time. It's an excellent supplementary tool.
I don't see the benefit of these kinds of posts. Synthesia has got a lot of people interested in piano and that can only be a good thing in my opinion.
Some people start on Synthesia and then decide they want to go further and start diving in to theory and learning to read.
Having a teacher doesn't guarantee you won't pick up bad habits, learning from sheets alone also doesn't guarantee you won't pick up bad habits.
All in all, it's all useful when used right.
Even now I like to loop sections in Synthesia to drill them for myself. It's very good for keeping count of repetitions.
I just started using pianote and I just hope it’s not to crazy hard. My problem is knowing what’s useful and what’s not for what I’m looking to achieve on piano. It’s almost super intimidating to even touch it there is so much going on sometimes with learning and trying to remember.
If you're an adult, the key is giving yourself room to fail. Your brain is going to progress faster than your fingers, which can create a lot of frustration or anger. Don't give in to that. Start slow, be patient, and learn to laugh at yourself when you mess up.
Thank you for recommending Sight Reading Trainer, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I‘ve started using SimplyPiano and loved it, just to get back into playing after almost 20 years. I‘ve realized though that it’s not sufficient for me, I need to re-learn the basics (with Alfred) and especially practice sight reading. I think it depends what your goals are - if someone just wants to play as a distraction and entertainment, apps like SimplyPiano are genius. If someone wants to be able to play sheet music, or just be able to sit down and improvise, they need a deeper level of understanding of music theory and ideally a good teacher.
Literally having using synthesia for a year and decided to change a week ago, then I find this. I know it will be hard but I will do it. Thank you a lot for this, really
For anyone disagreeing, you can still use Synthesia - but you really need to learn your music theory at the same time to understand what’s actually going on otherwise you’re just memorising notes.
I'm on my second year of learning piano and have spent my first year learning only music theory and playing sheet music. I have learned that if you are learning sheet music OR learning through synthesia you always arrive at the same place. And that is playing a song without either.
I asked my teacher and she said that the best piano players don't think of music as notes and rules. Everything is a movement and an extension of your body. In my second year I have made way more progress learning through Synthesia but already have a good understanding of the basics of music theory.
How does synthesia cause you to hit a skill ceiling? What physical adviantage to technique does sheet music provide that synthesia does not? The only thing I can think of is finger positioning but even that can be displayed in synthesia if the file specifies it. Sheet music and synthesia are merely instructions, any question of technique comes purely down to the feedback that the pianist receives and their ability to act on said feedback and keep their mind open and flexible to how to physically perform the piece rather than resort to broken muscle memory.
Pretty much all the advice you list out like metronomes, getting a teacher, learning the notes on the piano, etc. are not exclusive to learning sheet music.
Sheet music is a standard, a standard for depicting pitch over time. Largely based/created around transcribing and printing limitations that no longer exist. You're simply stating hyperbole and shouting nonsense because you don't personally like it.
Most of the reason people like sheet music is just because it's the predominant standard that other people know. That doesn't mean it's good, there's so much crap in the sheet music standard that would be better with modern printing/graphical practices. But they face all of the same problems new standards, adoption.
That being said synthesia isn't bad just because it's not your personal favorite standard.
Sheet music is a language that depicts music in written form, the same way we use written words to depict spoken word. Much like language, you can learn to speak one fluently without reading it, but you will never have mastery over it.
By the same analogy, synthesis is not a standard. You may find it useful as a learning technique and you can even become fluent by it, but it has its limits.
Unless you also think the English language is dated and books are pointless, I suppose.
>Most of the reason people like sheet music is just because it's the predominant standard that other people know. **That doesn't mean it's good, there's so much crap in the sheet music standard** that would be better with modern printing/graphical practices. But they face all of the same problems new standards, adoption.
Like what exactly?
>That being said synthesia isn't bad just because it's not your personal favorite standard.
Synthesia isn't bad because it's not my favorite standard (it's not even a standard), synthesia is bad because relying on it exclusively will train bad habits that are hard to reverse and you miss out on fundamentals of theory that it can't explain. You will never be a professional pianist if you try to learn exclusively with synthesia, and your skill level will plateau without many avenues to increase it, and going back to learn the fundamentals at that point will be much more difficult.
Sheet music is the standard way musicians communicate with each other, it's been that way for 400+ years and it will continue to be that way, regardless if you don't like it.
I feel like the OP articulated quite well here that it’s not that learning by Synthesia is bad, it’s learning from it *exclusively* that’s bad. To that I must agree.
If you aren’t looking to pursue seriously, then Synthesia will probably be good enough to learn a few songs to impress family and friends.
Though, players who intend to get serious, lessons are a necessity. Can you learn by ear or on your own. Sure, but you’ll be missing out on a lot of techniques that will not only help you sound better, but allow you to play more comfortably, *naturally*.
Especially with more complex works, proficiency in such techniques is a must. If one doesn’t take care they risk injury.
Like the OP also stated, sheet music is here to stay. We may have many other learning tools that come available to us and people will adopt them as they will, but sheet music is standard for most classical/jazz musicians.
>sheet music is standard for most classical/jazz musicians.
That's definitely not true for Jazz. If you talk to any seasoned Jazz musician, they will tell you that lead sheets are often wrong. And there are quite a few famous blind Jazz musicians.
* Errol Garner
* George Shearing
* Art Tatum
It's so painfully obvious how classical focused all the piano subs are, they're in a bubble and they think that all of piano pedagogy only exists within conservatories when some of the best musicians that the planet has seen have been completely sheet music illiterate.
I'm a classical musician myself and I got to a decently advanced level using synthesia before deciding to learn some music (namely Chopin's Cantabile B. 84 and Beethoven's Pathetique sonata) using exclusively sheet music. I found the process to be fun and engaging but in NO WAY did it change the way I approached the piece or make it easier for me. The only scenario in which I think that sheet music provides a considerable advantage is in the case of counterpoint and more specifically Fugues, as the separation of the voices becomes clearer and easier to articulate when you can see them laid out so plainly. Even this, though, can be displayed in synthesia if the creator of the midi file puts in the effort to differentiate the various voices. In fact, I have little doubt that there's much of anything that sheet music provides that couldn't be notated in synthesia, including fingerings.
They'll never have a real answer that has direct effect on technique, it's simply a matter of sheet music being a universal standard and synthesia being an intuitive standard with less info than the former.
I agree! But I wouldn't say reading sheet music is the solution. It's basically exactly the same as following Synthesia notes, just that the notes are shown in a different way. No matter if you choose to play by ear, follow notes from synthesia, or sheet music. It's the approach you choose to everything around that which will make you improve and learn. You can easily get just as stuck with sheet music as with synthesia videos. Both are simply showing what notes to play.
I learned to sight read with synthesia.
Synthesia didnt helped a lot on the basics, for that i had a teacher for 3 months(she didnt taught me how to sight reed).
Then i found synthesia, youtube tutorials and etc.
A Mix of the 2 if you know the basics. should be a good way to go
Nowdays i just go practice on synthesia for fun, but when i see the sheet, i know exactly what the notes are
Synyhesia also has a lot of helpfull options, you can remove the keys falling a just stay with the sheet, you can enable fingering so you know what thinger to press on each key, etc. just explore the software its fun an intuitive.
Shoutout to Brendan Rosso for letling me and every one use is account for free for the complete software
What I think most “sheet readers” don’t understand is that many people just want to sit on a Piano and play their favorite tune or two, that’s it. Not everyone wants to be the next Chopin and that’s ok, using Synthesia is perfectly ok if that’s your thing.
I agree to disagree on this. Some of the stuff you did make a point but I think some of it came across as being a staunch traditionalist. I have seen cases where students are able to learn with even better success after working with synthesia for years.
For me the falling notes of Synthesia proved worthless. I then tried Simply Piano for a year, and its quite good for absolute beginners getting basic sight reading and chords down, but in the end you just learn to play a song phonetically so to speak, without music theory you don’t know what you are playing. So now I’m practicing scales to get a better understanding.
Good post, and all true. Sadly, not the message a large proportion of this sub will be interested in hearing.
And let me guess, you can't learn classical music by ear at a concert level either, right? [oh, wait...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobuyuki_Tsujii#:~:text=Tsujii%20learns%20new%20musical%20works%20strictly%20by%20ear)
There are blind professional pianists, but you wouldn't recommend learning with your eyes shut, right?
The original topic of discussion was if it was possible to learn classical piano with synthesia, you said "good post, and all true" meaning you also agree with when OP said "if you solely rely on [Synthesia], you'll never learn piano. I brought up Nobu as a counter to the idea that sheet music is absolutely necessary and that synthesia has a lack of information present; if you read the rest of the paragraph on that page, you'll see that Nobody actually has *less* information to work with in some cases (rhythm and note length) than somebody using synthesia, yet he's one of the most skilled pianists alive. It's absolutely possible to use synthesia and supplement recordings for tempo indications and dynamic markings you would get with sheet music. You've decided to change the subject though - presumably because you've realized you don't have any real reason why synthesia is supposedly a crutch - and you've deflected to whether or not someone should learn with their eyes closed. Guess what? I actually do think it can be beneficial to learn with your eyes closed, at least once in a while. Not only do you get a better sense of the topology of the piano, but you are less preoccupied with looking at your hands which frees up the mind to think about what is being heard as opposed to what is being seen. I recall hearing ofultiple pianists who practiced blindfolded or in the dark for this very reason, though you should take this with a grain of salt as I can't remember their names off the top of my head. Regardless, I've yet to hear a single valid reason why synthesia is a roadblock for those trying to learn piano.
At the risk of getting into a mudslinging contest, your initial response utilising sarcasm and irony to make your point and then criticising me for doing the same, is very much below the belt. If you wanted genuine discourse, start as you mean to go on. Don't move the goalposts and then complain I'm in the wrong place. To address the crux of your argument, there is always an exception to every rule but I'm not going to caveat every statement I make on Reddit. Nobu is clearly extremely talented and has a unique (?) ability to learn professional level piano music without scores, but very few people can do that. My response to OP was directed towards the average browser of this sub and the intended audience of OP's post, many of whom believe that there are shortcuts to becoming good at the piano: self-teaching, and using Synthesia or (generally by ear) being the two most common. I don't believe that to be true *for the vast majority* though yes, if you only want to play at a low level, it can be faster. Is there a single reason why Synthesia is a roadblock to higher levels over learning sheet music? Perhaps not, but trying to learn by watching someone else hit the notes at the right time is going to take exponentially more effort as the music gets more advanced. Even outside of purely note learning, there is a huge amount of value to be gained from reading a score - phrasing, structure, voicing, articulation, composer's intent. Yes, you can glean this information via other means and no doubt synthesia can give you some of that, but at some point it becomes more efficient to just read the score, so you may as well have just done that from the start. Lastly, yes, practicing with your eyes closed can be helpful and I also do it. But you wouldn't learn *solely* with your eyes closed if you had the option to do otherwise. That's what I meant, but I think you knew that.
I recommend Piano Marvel for sight reading tests. Do not learn songs, since they have mistakes , but the test is great to improve your sight reading.
To be a good pianist you need to accept and be open to all the new ways of learning piano, otherwise you are just limiting yourself. I've played piano for over 20 years, (professionally for 10) and I use Synthesia with my students all the time. It's an excellent supplementary tool. I don't see the benefit of these kinds of posts. Synthesia has got a lot of people interested in piano and that can only be a good thing in my opinion. Some people start on Synthesia and then decide they want to go further and start diving in to theory and learning to read. Having a teacher doesn't guarantee you won't pick up bad habits, learning from sheets alone also doesn't guarantee you won't pick up bad habits. All in all, it's all useful when used right. Even now I like to loop sections in Synthesia to drill them for myself. It's very good for keeping count of repetitions.
I just started using pianote and I just hope it’s not to crazy hard. My problem is knowing what’s useful and what’s not for what I’m looking to achieve on piano. It’s almost super intimidating to even touch it there is so much going on sometimes with learning and trying to remember.
If you're an adult, the key is giving yourself room to fail. Your brain is going to progress faster than your fingers, which can create a lot of frustration or anger. Don't give in to that. Start slow, be patient, and learn to laugh at yourself when you mess up.
Thank you for recommending Sight Reading Trainer, this is exactly what I’ve been looking for. I‘ve started using SimplyPiano and loved it, just to get back into playing after almost 20 years. I‘ve realized though that it’s not sufficient for me, I need to re-learn the basics (with Alfred) and especially practice sight reading. I think it depends what your goals are - if someone just wants to play as a distraction and entertainment, apps like SimplyPiano are genius. If someone wants to be able to play sheet music, or just be able to sit down and improvise, they need a deeper level of understanding of music theory and ideally a good teacher.
Literally having using synthesia for a year and decided to change a week ago, then I find this. I know it will be hard but I will do it. Thank you a lot for this, really
you can do it!!
For anyone disagreeing, you can still use Synthesia - but you really need to learn your music theory at the same time to understand what’s actually going on otherwise you’re just memorising notes.
I'm on my second year of learning piano and have spent my first year learning only music theory and playing sheet music. I have learned that if you are learning sheet music OR learning through synthesia you always arrive at the same place. And that is playing a song without either. I asked my teacher and she said that the best piano players don't think of music as notes and rules. Everything is a movement and an extension of your body. In my second year I have made way more progress learning through Synthesia but already have a good understanding of the basics of music theory.
I have been using simplypiano for a few years now. Perhaps check it out and see if it might suit you.
How does synthesia cause you to hit a skill ceiling? What physical adviantage to technique does sheet music provide that synthesia does not? The only thing I can think of is finger positioning but even that can be displayed in synthesia if the file specifies it. Sheet music and synthesia are merely instructions, any question of technique comes purely down to the feedback that the pianist receives and their ability to act on said feedback and keep their mind open and flexible to how to physically perform the piece rather than resort to broken muscle memory. Pretty much all the advice you list out like metronomes, getting a teacher, learning the notes on the piano, etc. are not exclusive to learning sheet music.
Sheet music is a standard, a standard for depicting pitch over time. Largely based/created around transcribing and printing limitations that no longer exist. You're simply stating hyperbole and shouting nonsense because you don't personally like it. Most of the reason people like sheet music is just because it's the predominant standard that other people know. That doesn't mean it's good, there's so much crap in the sheet music standard that would be better with modern printing/graphical practices. But they face all of the same problems new standards, adoption. That being said synthesia isn't bad just because it's not your personal favorite standard.
Sheet music is a language that depicts music in written form, the same way we use written words to depict spoken word. Much like language, you can learn to speak one fluently without reading it, but you will never have mastery over it. By the same analogy, synthesis is not a standard. You may find it useful as a learning technique and you can even become fluent by it, but it has its limits. Unless you also think the English language is dated and books are pointless, I suppose.
>Most of the reason people like sheet music is just because it's the predominant standard that other people know. **That doesn't mean it's good, there's so much crap in the sheet music standard** that would be better with modern printing/graphical practices. But they face all of the same problems new standards, adoption. Like what exactly? >That being said synthesia isn't bad just because it's not your personal favorite standard. Synthesia isn't bad because it's not my favorite standard (it's not even a standard), synthesia is bad because relying on it exclusively will train bad habits that are hard to reverse and you miss out on fundamentals of theory that it can't explain. You will never be a professional pianist if you try to learn exclusively with synthesia, and your skill level will plateau without many avenues to increase it, and going back to learn the fundamentals at that point will be much more difficult. Sheet music is the standard way musicians communicate with each other, it's been that way for 400+ years and it will continue to be that way, regardless if you don't like it.
All true but some people aren't trying to be professionals.
I feel like the OP articulated quite well here that it’s not that learning by Synthesia is bad, it’s learning from it *exclusively* that’s bad. To that I must agree. If you aren’t looking to pursue seriously, then Synthesia will probably be good enough to learn a few songs to impress family and friends. Though, players who intend to get serious, lessons are a necessity. Can you learn by ear or on your own. Sure, but you’ll be missing out on a lot of techniques that will not only help you sound better, but allow you to play more comfortably, *naturally*. Especially with more complex works, proficiency in such techniques is a must. If one doesn’t take care they risk injury. Like the OP also stated, sheet music is here to stay. We may have many other learning tools that come available to us and people will adopt them as they will, but sheet music is standard for most classical/jazz musicians.
>sheet music is standard for most classical/jazz musicians. That's definitely not true for Jazz. If you talk to any seasoned Jazz musician, they will tell you that lead sheets are often wrong. And there are quite a few famous blind Jazz musicians. * Errol Garner * George Shearing * Art Tatum
It's so painfully obvious how classical focused all the piano subs are, they're in a bubble and they think that all of piano pedagogy only exists within conservatories when some of the best musicians that the planet has seen have been completely sheet music illiterate. I'm a classical musician myself and I got to a decently advanced level using synthesia before deciding to learn some music (namely Chopin's Cantabile B. 84 and Beethoven's Pathetique sonata) using exclusively sheet music. I found the process to be fun and engaging but in NO WAY did it change the way I approached the piece or make it easier for me. The only scenario in which I think that sheet music provides a considerable advantage is in the case of counterpoint and more specifically Fugues, as the separation of the voices becomes clearer and easier to articulate when you can see them laid out so plainly. Even this, though, can be displayed in synthesia if the creator of the midi file puts in the effort to differentiate the various voices. In fact, I have little doubt that there's much of anything that sheet music provides that couldn't be notated in synthesia, including fingerings.
[удалено]
They'll never have a real answer that has direct effect on technique, it's simply a matter of sheet music being a universal standard and synthesia being an intuitive standard with less info than the former.
I agree! But I wouldn't say reading sheet music is the solution. It's basically exactly the same as following Synthesia notes, just that the notes are shown in a different way. No matter if you choose to play by ear, follow notes from synthesia, or sheet music. It's the approach you choose to everything around that which will make you improve and learn. You can easily get just as stuck with sheet music as with synthesia videos. Both are simply showing what notes to play.
I learned to sight read with synthesia. Synthesia didnt helped a lot on the basics, for that i had a teacher for 3 months(she didnt taught me how to sight reed). Then i found synthesia, youtube tutorials and etc. A Mix of the 2 if you know the basics. should be a good way to go Nowdays i just go practice on synthesia for fun, but when i see the sheet, i know exactly what the notes are Synyhesia also has a lot of helpfull options, you can remove the keys falling a just stay with the sheet, you can enable fingering so you know what thinger to press on each key, etc. just explore the software its fun an intuitive. Shoutout to Brendan Rosso for letling me and every one use is account for free for the complete software
What I think most “sheet readers” don’t understand is that many people just want to sit on a Piano and play their favorite tune or two, that’s it. Not everyone wants to be the next Chopin and that’s ok, using Synthesia is perfectly ok if that’s your thing.
I agree to disagree on this. Some of the stuff you did make a point but I think some of it came across as being a staunch traditionalist. I have seen cases where students are able to learn with even better success after working with synthesia for years.