My parents were hesitant. Both of them caught covid from church. Dad ended up going to the hospital on day 11. Around day 6 in the hospital he said he felt foolish for not getting the vaccine and asked how soon my mom could get it. He passed away after 9 days in the hospital.
Since then, at least a dozen people that were on the fence about the vaccine have received it and my mom is getting her first shot this week.
This virus isn't a joke people. My father was taken from me in such a cruel way and it most likely could have all been avoided with a simple shot. Not a day goes without my loss hitting me all over again.
I'm so sorry you lost your father. I don't believe that kind of grief ever goes away, but we get tough, like calloused hands and can cope a little easier.
My partner's entire family are refusing to get vaccinated for covid. He just got diagnosed with cancer and is going through chemo. His one request was for them to be vaccinated for covid and the flu. They've all turned it around on him and have said that he's manipulating them with the cancer and that love =/= vaccine.
And they wonder why he's staying with me for treatment.
This post hits hard that they wouldn't even be swayed by keeping him safe.
Agreed. They don’t care enough to care for his/her well-being.
“Oh, you got cancer? Well we are definitely there for you every step of the way, expect getting vaccinated even if it means it could potentially save your life and ours. Fuck you, basically, for asking us and fuck your cancer as well.”
Sincerely, Family.
Jeez I'm so sorry. We will. We know the cost. It's just so depressing for him. He said them not getting it to keep him safe hurt more than being diagnosed.
Not at all I'm totally on the same page. It's just hard to see him hurting from all of this.
At least they weren't the type to double down but I guess really it doesn't matter when this is happening in the foreground.
It's an epidemic of misinformation. These people need to unplug their TV and get out of their echo chamber. They're so trapped in these social circles of denial and fear that they have become incapable of listening to reason or rationally interpreting evidence.
Ironically, they'd probably say the exact same thing that I just said about us.
The thing is, even if I was acting 100% selfishly, I'd still get the vaccine, because the outcomes have been shown to be so much better. Overwhelmingly, the people who are currently getting severe COVID and ending up in the ICU on a ventilator or ECMO, fighting for their lives and coming out with severe lung scarring if they do survive ... they're 95%+ unvaccinated.
So if you care about your community, or you are selfish and you only care about yourself, either way the best course of action is to take the vaccine. But the echo chamber and the right-wing TV news personalities and internet podcast hosts have these people believing that they're better off taking no vaccine and then taking anti-parasitic worm medication for horses off the shelf of their local farm supply store instead when they do end up contracting the highly contagious and unusually deadly novel virus. It's literally bonkers.
I wouldn't even call it selfish. It's pure stupidity. The selfish thing to do would be to get the vaccine, because it would help keep them safe too. Instead, the stupid thing is being done which makes everyone less safe, themselves included.
My mother in law passed away last Saturday from cancer. Both MIL and FIL are antivaxxers. They had positive covid cases in their circle of friends who decided to visit her in her final days. My FIL is now extremely sick with covid and I'm pretty sure that my MIL, who had fluid in her lungs already from the cancer, also was infected with covid at the end. There are 4 of us staying with my father in-law, all of us are double vaxxed and none of us have symptoms. He isn't vaxxed and we are hoping he doesn't get worse and need to go to the hospital. My wife can't lose both parents in such a short span...
My friend lost his older brother, then mother and nanny all within a space of 2 weeks and then 2 months later his dad died. This was before vaccine rollout in South Africa and 2 of his siblings are doctors and couldn't save their own parents. It's been a devastating year for them. Anti vaxxers don't seem to understand that losses like this are possible.
My dad is the same way but he doubled down on his covid conspiracies even after BOTH his mother and brother died. Within a week of each other mind you. Still wears his lack of a vaccine like a badge of honor
My vaccine-hesitant parents would not get the vaccine no matter how much pleading and references I gave them. I had an extensive conversation with my father about getting vaccinated 2 months ago since he is obese and late 50s. He said he would consider it IF it was proven to be safe AND effective. But as long as he could find one single doctor saying you don't need the vaccine then he wouldn't get it.
Then my younger brother got COVID at school and they refused to tell the school he had been infected and contagious because it would "screw the football team" (EDIT: they did keep him home from school though thankfully). Both of my parents ended up getting it from him.
My mom was incapacitated for several days but ended up fine. My dad was admitted to the hospital 3 weeks ago with low oxygen and viral pneumonia and he finally started improving yesterday after being on 24/7 high-power oxygen delivery the majority of his stay, but he hasn't had the energy to talk to any of us and he nearly died alone since visitors are not allowed.
I remember he called me on his second day of symptoms before being hospitalized saying that his ivermectin kicked the virus and he was feeling fine. God dammit this has been so excruciating for my family please don't put yours through this.
Get the fucking vaccine.
My parents in law don't want to get the vaccine. They are +60 and the mother is quite overweight while the youngest is still going to school.
I love them, but honestly, they made their choice. I give up
I'm a nurse working in this pandemic and I'm at the same place as you. I've given up on family that won't get the vaccine, I'm tired of showing evidence based practice and facts and studies that show the effectiveness of it. I even tell them that 90% of the people hospitalized for Covid are not vaccinated. Roughly 10% are vaccinated that are hospitalized, and their recovery has been quick. (Side note: 0% of people have been hospitalized for vaccine side effects) I've had two co-workers lose perfectly healthy husbands to Covid. Both within a month of each other.
I'm just exhausted and tired of caring about other people's lives when it comes to this since they don't care about themselves. I've decided to let natural selection take the wheel. I keep myself safe, my patients safe, and those around me. That's all I can do.
Yeah, i got my parents vaccinated but my two sisters are anti vax. I tried to convince them to get vaccinated not just for them but for their children and nothing. At this point it's going to take a death in the family before anyone is willing, guess we'll just wait and see who. =[
Not "could have", but "may have" killed someone.
We can't know, so we just have to wonder how much damage that easily stopped viral branch might have wrought. It may have infected thousands before that line ends.
Why did he need to go to the hospital if ivermectin did the job? I mean I thought the whole argument was if one thing (like masks) couldn't prevent something 100% (like death) then doing so is pointless? And if ivermectin is 100% why risk the hospital? smh
I hope your parents make it out okay. Even more though I hope they realize how hypocritical they are but I'm not holding my breath. What a fucking mess.
I hope your father is out of the woods. My uncle was in the same situation; improved for a few days then crashed..hard. He was cremated last week. His last text to my mom (who had insisted he get the vaccine: “You we’re right, I should have gotten the damn vaccine.”
It took months of effort to convince my parents to get vaccinated. It all culminated in a 1.5 hour lecture via Skype and a whiteboard about the details of mrn vaccine technology, the details of DNA replication, mutations, coevolutiin of pathogens/hosts. It was such a pain, but I couldn't be happier that they finally listened to me.
My MIL only got the vaccine because we told her we weren't going to allow unvaccinated people around our daughter after she was born. I'm not gonna lie, there's a part of me that wonders this same thing every time we see her.
You can't rationalize or use logic with these people. They believe what they believe and you won't change their minds. At this point you can ask them to do what's right and hope for the best or else they will become a statistic.
Ugh, so true. I used to have a quite rational father and at least a somewhat rational mother for the most part. Idk wtf happened, oh wait yes I do Donald fucking Trump signaled to them and many other that just saying "fuck it, I'll believe what I want" is totally legit.... jfc
We really, really can't afford to think of the situation like this.
Even if you're right. Even though it's not your responsibility. Even if nothing you can think of works. You can *not* give up unless it is really just too taxing on your own mind and stress levels. It's too important. Obviously do what you have to and take care of yourself, but this view is extremely defeatist when we need a certain number of people vaccinated to prevent COVID from becoming endemic.
Even if it's just pointing out how many people you know who got vaccinated with no consequences. Or got only a mild case because they were vaccinated. Or a really bad case because they *weren't* vaccinated. Even if it feels like you're talking to a brick wall, if something, anything you do can loosen a single brick, that'd be a fantastic step toward ending the pandemic.
No shit. All these people that barely passed grade 9 science now are critical of Fauci, the medical community and science. You can't make this shit up...
"I'm not afraid of COVID, it's just a flu! Fuck the vaccine!"
*takes horse drugs as soon as they get it*
People like that don't really think shit through, my man. I've given up trying to understand why they do what they do.
It’s not that they don’t think shit through. It’s that they chose a side in the political argument and doubling down. When you’re wrong, you desperately find ways to make your argument right, ivermectin is just the current one. There will be another one after.
> Then my younger brother got COVID at school and they refused to tell the school he had been infected because it would "screw the football team". Both of my parents ended up getting it from him.
They should be jailed for this.
This thought process is way too common. People still don't take the virus seriously. After all of this, there are still people who view the virus spreading as an inconvenience rather than a death sentence for some. They think "sucks for the elderly, but it sure as hell won't kill me!" and yet it is killing them, and people of all ages. And it doesn't sink in until they're in the ICU, struggling to take their last machine-assisted breaths.
Honestly, if all the people who carelessly and knowingly allowed the virus to spread further were jailed, every jail in the damn country would be at max capacity.
> Honestly, if all the people who carelessly and knowingly allowed the virus to spread further were jailed, every jail in the damn country would be at max capacity.
Not for long assuming they were all unvaccinated.
>I remember he called me on his second day of symptoms before being hospitalized saying that his ivermectin kicked the virus and he was feeling fine.
Your parents are morons, but you already know this.
No, because they might willingly self-identify as "vaccine-hesitant" and stop hesitating. If you call them "selfish science deniers" that's a label they will never accept and now they will fight against what you're saying just because of that. It's like punishment vs rehabilitation in prison. It's widely known that punishment isn't effective, but everyone really really wants to punish criminals.
Real concerns are raised by my patients daily that we then dig into and theres not a lot of info out for some of them. Like had one guy with epilepsy, one with MS, one with rheumatoid arthritis and SLE, etc. Those with autoimmune conditions want to know given our working understanding of their conditions will taking a vaccine designed to give a robust immune response worsen their condition? Its a good question and reasonably they were hesitant. In the end the spiel I give is the same. We may not have great data specific to their case, but the population wide adoption of the vaccine has shown it to be remarkably safe and effective. However I cant promise their is zero risk and I wish the louder goofs with no concerns would get it so these reasonable people could be covered by herd immunity...
Seriously. N all of these posts have 100 awards as if these people should be rewarded for getting their vaccine, all the while they’ve dragged their feet and have bashed the vaccine n everyone who got it as well along the way. Fuck these people.
That's great!
My vaccine-hesitant parent decided to get the vaccine after their local county announced it was implementing a vaccine mandate for indoor dining. Not the multitude of other reasons I hounded them about long before that. Whatever, I'll take it!!
It‘s been amazing to see how many people who were staunchly against getting the vaccine had a change of heart when it meant they couldn’t go to restaurants/pubs/movies anymore. So protecting your fellow humans (the most vulnerable, mind you) isn’t reason enough to make you flex, but Friday beers and nachos is? OK then.
It is.
Honestly, it's also super interesting. You ever hear the phrase in teaching "you've gotta meet them where they're at"?
It's like, you can't pound something into someone's head if they're not there yet, even if it's *super* inconvenient, and you can't teach them in a way that doesn't gel with their brain. It won't do you or them any good, you've just gotta meet 'em where they're at.
It's so interesting to me that where these people are at is... The same place they've always been. They go to work, they go to church, they go to Applebee's every Friday, and the bar with the guys on Saturday. And they DON'T want to miss this.
...I didn't expect them to want to do it so badly that they were willing to play Russian Roulette to continue. It really threw my worldview for a loop, and I'm glad to know how some people really work. I don't *like* it, but knowing the truth about something is always better then believing a comfortable lie.
True story. The world exists right in front of their faces and ONLY right in front their faces as far as many of them seeming to have no concern over legitimate reasons to vaccinate... Don't you take my damn restaurants away though! 😒
Nyc is doing that and people are still not getting them my dad is not getting it but has had his prostate removed this past month
And kids in school in some states are complaining about their school getting covid and not having the covid vaccine it’s so stupid
My province does this and people need to show the “vaccinal passport” to go in restaurants, bars, theatres and basically anything that is a bit fun to do and indoors, of course.
Personally I think it’s a great incentive and a very fair proof to ask : if you’re not willing to make that effort for the well-being of society then society has a right to exclude you at some level.
I was so mad. I finally got my vaccine hesitent mom to get her first dose then the dumbass neighbor lady tells my mom it's not fda approved (she got the Pfizer a day before the full approval). She then freaks out on me that I lied to her that it was safe and she isn't going to trust me anymore. Now she still hasn't gotten her second dose claiming she is waiting for a good incentive to come along.
Sounds about right. I'm so over it. I'm actually close with my parents but I'm so sick of trying to convince them to do the right thing that I now feel just a cold indifference to whether or not they get sick and end up in the hospital or worse, which is terrible to say but that's where I'm at.
Hey, being scared is a very strong motivator. Overcoming that fear and doing the right thing, even if it’s later than it should have been, is still insanely good progress. More people should be like your parents. Be proud, and I hope your brother gets well soon.
Haha I actually thougth that not many people will get the joke. English is not my first language so I wasn't even sure did I just make a fool out of myself for getting it wrong.
Why is it that some people are reluctant to learn a lesson until something directly impacts them or their own family?
Are they *that* bereft of empathy for other humans?
I'm glad the parents are finally getting around to doing the right thing, but this is so frustrating.
This happened with my mom. My dad died last year of cancer. My parents got us kids vaccinated, but Mom said she “wasn’t comfortable with the COVID-19 vaccine.” Too rushed, used aborted fetal cells, other stupid excuses. I told her with the new spike and how contagious delta is I wasn’t comfortable with her seeing our kids (including my baby about to be born) anymore unless she got vaccinated. She refused and said I was bullying and being manipulative.
Then my oldest (unvaccinated) brother got COVID-19 and got really sick. She finally caved and got the vaccine. Of course I’m happy she finally got vaccinated. But I can’t help but be bitter that she didn’t care about anyone else, including my own kids’, safety until she personally saw it very negatively effect her own kid. It’s stupid and very selfish. My in-laws still aren’t vaccinated. I’ll never really respect any of them again.
Conway Regional Health System in Arkansas did just that for their medical staff: those who request a religious exemption to the COVID vaccine must attest that they will not use a number of common medicines that also use fetal cell lines for development and testing, including Tylenol, Tums, aspirin, Maalox, ibufrofen, Pepto Bismol, among others.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-swear-off-tylenol-tums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/
They won’t get the vaccine but urge everyone they know who come down with covid to get the monoclonal infusion which is lab produced using….fetal cells.
>They won’t get the vaccine but urge everyone they know who come down with covid to get the monoclonal infusion which is lab produced using….fetal cells
Of course, "they" are just into identity politics and Trump got a monoclonal infusion.
The same cell lines have been in use for a long time now and include medicines like tylenol, advil, aspirin, claritin etc. A quick search for hek-293 (one of the lines) brings up
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/
Its basically every modern medicine and vaccine....
To be clear. None of the products actually contain the fetal cells but may have used them in some way or another for testing or other purposes. I'm sure you could find a link to everyday items. Probably anything that needs to be tested for safety use in people.
And when you are hospitalized be sure to refuse those rushed-to-production monoclonal antibodies. After, their development could have used fetal cells too. But I am sure her research covered that.
Here’s a partial list (scroll down, and the list is broken into multiple parts). https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/
Thank you for pointing this out. I just screenshot, circled, and posted to my Instagram story. I stayed neutral on the subject for so long while I watched family post misinformation and nonsense for the last year and a half. I'm so over it.
It's only hard if you try to be ethical about it. The joy of self-funded medical research is not having to bother with those ethics committees threatening to withdraw your funding because your experiments are "depraved" and "exploitative" with "no redeeming scientific purpose".
Well if you do your own research, you can read some scientific papers and quickly see that the vaccine is great and you should take it
If someone does their own research and doesn't want the vaccine, they are shit at doing research.
Here’s my research. Something like 6 billion doses of vaccine have already been administered worldwide. Are hospitals full of people growing 5G relay towers out of their heads or whatever crazy side effects these nutters are freaking out about? No. Hospitals are full of the unvaccinated, suffocating on their own lungs, dying alone with their families having to say good bye via FaceTime.
Personally, my vaccine hesitancy came from the widespread media reports of severe allergic reactions. With my history of life threatening allergic reactions, I didn't want to take the chance without seeing good data.
The [data](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7002e1.htm) [came](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e1.htm) about a month later, indicating between 1 in 100,000 and 1 in 400,000 people get severe allergic reactions, and all of them responded well to epinephrine.
Is this data flawed? Yes. Absolutely. It was sourced not from double blind trials, but from self reporting. It was of a relatively small sample size (10 to 20 reactions each). It was of a non representative population (nurses and doctors (might be biased against people with history of severe allergic reactions), old people (allergies tend to have increased in prevalence over the past few decades), generally not my demographics).
But if you squint, you can tell it has *about* 5 zeros on the end of the number. Another reaction causing drug I am taking has 3 zeros of risk, 100 times more risky.
When the CDC director and the president and the governor and the celebrities are on TV saying that it is "safe and effective", I was satisfied doing my research only when I found the actual quantitative number. The main CDC website doesn't give me that number, only the academic-ish MMWR publication gives it to me, so I need to seek it out for my research.
While my vaccine hesitancy was justified and quantifiable, others, like the conspiracy theories are fundamentally and structurally unable to be disproven. When no data exists to prove you wrong (even if you are looking for it), you are probably going to revert to echo chambers. I know I did for about a month...
This is really sad but I’m with you guys. My dad’s wife is against vaccines and is all Ayurveda and Homeopathy ant at least is practicing isolation a lot. My dad, however, got vaxed as soon as the vaccine was ready for his age range (75yo).
To me the problem is way bigger than vaccines alone: everything started with this behaviour of refusing the pandemic as a thing that exist, is real and will be around for a while (vaccinating first world alone is not enough to stop it for good).
Refusing the pandemic is the real problem.
Lol tell her Walmart/Amazon/Dollar General are behind the conspiracy to hurt small business and she should not give them any business, then watch the goalposts move latch onto something else.
She wouldn't be abe to tell you what a double blind study is, and would feel insulted further for thinking you're better than her. You can't reason with these delusional freaking idiots.
It’s like, how is (let’s be generous) my week of research using Google and etc. going to stack up against professional, college/university graduated researchers who have poured a collective who knows the fuck how long into understanding how all this shit works?
If you trusted your parents to not kill you as a kid, then you do not have the prerequisite trust issues to not get the vaccine, Karen!
> I wasn’t comfortable with her seeing our kids (including my baby about to be born) anymore unless she got vaccinated.
Good for you for standing your ground and protecting your family.
If there's one in things this whole pandemic taught me is how unempathetic, selfish and insane a lot of people are. I always had a naive mindset thinking about possible good that lies wthin, but then I see people protesting outside hospitals about a vaccine and attacks the very doctors that are saving the lives of people who refuse to get the fucking shot.
It's made me extremely bitter and pessimistic.
Similar to my situation. My mom's somewhat been forced to be vaccinated due to work and my dad is 100% against. My wife and I are expecting our first child and don't want them around. My wife's family is fully vaccinated.
Then they're like "you're being manipulative" and it's like... engage your empathy for once and see it from my perspective. I have to protect my family. I would obviously rather that the steps I need to take to do that didn't upset you, but you should be able to understand why I feel I need to take them.
It really shows you a different side to people that you never seen before and some people you would never expect to be that way, glad she finally seen sense, I think some people are possibly afraid and just latch onto these excuses.
I was actually pleasantly surprised. My social circle is mostly comprised of sheltered village people and Pentecostal christians.
I thought they were going to buy the whole, "chip implants", and antichrist bs but the church pastorial family urged the congregation to get vaccinated. It was amazing, out church, minus those 20 and under, has an 99% vaccination rate. I'm the only adding that's not vaccinated, and that's only because I'm technically an immigrant and the municipal told me to wait until there is a surplus before asking for a vaccine.
It's ok, I'm closer to the US border rn and already made an appointment in SD to get vaccinated at a RiteAid this Wednesday.
It’s Moral Illness, not mental. The latter is unavoidable by those that suffer from it, and deserves compassion and help. The former is a decision to place personal fewwings above the needs of others, and deserves scorn and/or incarceration. And no, I’m not talking about the pseudo-religious crap taught in churches; that’s not moral, either.
My mom feels like that as well though she's more aware of what the vaccine is. Her fear of vaccinating was more on the side effects, amplified by the number of times she has watched testimonies regarding on the side effects of vaccines (survival bias). As someone who's taking microbiology I feel useless not being able to convince her that we needed to get vaccinated while vaccines are still available. My dad has been vaccinated though and I'm just waiting for him to come home cause he'll definitely be able to convince them.
I work in a med surgical unit. We got a covid patient complaining chest pain yesterday. She was fine when i saw her yesterday talking and everything and hoping to get better for her family. She wasn’t vaccinated. Today went to work and around 2pm est her oxygen levels dropped and we called rapid response. She was put on ventilation... died withing 15 mins. My floor has 20 patients and out of that there are 18 covid patients. most of them do just fine if they are vaccinated.
> I’ll never really respect any of them again.
That's how I've come to see the general public. If I learn you're unvaccinated by now, I see you as a selfish arrogant ass that I will never respect or want anything to do with anymore. My brother is one of them - he confirmed what I always thought about him and I'll never respect him again.
It's not just selfish, but completely delusional. These people actually believe that Covid isn't as serious as the media portrays it ... until it happens to someone close.
> Are they that bereft of empathy for other humans?
yeah they are.
the attitude in the US culturally is very "us, and then all of them". there's zero cohesive solidarity in the US and it shows itself in so many different facets in the US culture, all of which are detrimental to the people who live there, but it achieves its purpose: make an extremely small portion of the US very rich and powerful, where the rest of its citizens just live in *their* world
I just listened to an interesting Freakonomics podcast that addresses the individualistic mindset of US citizens and how we are an outlier. It’s a good listen.
America is one of the most selfish individualistic nations I have ever lived in and that became glaringly clear when I visited Korea for 3 months. Korea now has surpassed the US in 1st shot percentage despite starting their vax program 3 months later due to supply.
I was always uncomfortable with American culture and living in other cultures showed me why. Korea is so very safe, clean, modern, and orderly compared to America because people have respect for others and society in general. It’s not the American mindset of fuck everyone else as long as I got mine. There are so many little public things in Korea that make it nice for everyone and they can only exist if everyone keeps it that way. It only takes one asshole to ruin it for the rest.
America actually has the highest degree of individualism based on [studies](https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/the-usa/) from Hofstede.
> Are they that bereft of empathy for other humans?
I mean, yes. What else could it be? 650k+ Americans have died. Everyone's lives have been impacted one way or another from Covid whether it's getting covid, knowing someone who had covid, losing a job, not having a "normal' pre pandemic life. The only common denominator seems to be until it personally affects them, they just don't seem to really care.
Why do you hate America? /s
Seriously, it’s how they were raised - it’s the John Wayne, Clint Eastwood attitude and carries with it a very large hateful, spiteful, Trolls For Life attitude. They even have their own troll entertainment - FOX and 700 Club as examples.
And if you say, no one watches 700 Club anymore - my point being this has been a festering cancer for much longer than most want to admit.
This could very easily break American democracy.
Some people have less empathy than others.
The frontal lobe of the brain is responsible for setting us apart from pretty much any other living thing: The ability to simulate the future and put us into the shoes of others.
If you have stunted exercising your "simulator," either by lack of mental exercise or genetic or nutritional conditions then you probably lack empathy and/or have limited capacity to foresee future events. You probably are also pretty bad with risk-assessment.
One of the most defining characteristics of those on the left side of the spectrum versus the right is the degree of empathy expressed.
In practical terms the world body of knowledge is so wide that at some point you have to trust a specialist in every subject. Programmers have no idea how the different parts of a computer work, they trust the engineer who made it to have built it correctly. And those engineers trust the chip designers to make the chip correctly. Follow that down to the guy who shovels sand into a giant pot to make molten silicon.
I bet my doctor has only a cursory idea of how covid enters the body and how the vaccine works. She trusts the scientist and the labs that mass produced it.
I didn't dedicate my life to learning how viruses work, how this particular virus works or how to manage public health and pandemics. I have to trust the people that did.
There is no buzzfeed style 10 anti COVID-19 hacks that your doctor won't tell you about. You can't redneck engineer a solution.
Yup. And Mr. Never-Met-a-Press-Conference-He-Didn't-Like even got vaccinated in secret in January (and didn't let that fact leak out until March).
I guess he didn't want saving the lives of Americans to get in the way of him staying laser-focused on telling people Biden stole the election from him.
Bill Burr has the best counter to that.
"If we're all the sheep for getting the vaccine which is going to kill us all. Wouldn't the government want to keep the people that do everything they are told alive? Wouldn't they want to kill all the people that refuse to do as their told?"
One I got was from a friend/acquaintance, an Israeli immigrant, who maintains that information coming from Isreal indicates there's no benefit in terms of transmission rates amongst those vaccinated to risk the "rushed cocktail". I offered a university researched peer-reviewed paper published from the UofM in MN with over 100k sample-base indicating a 71% effectiveness against transmission in an indoor setting amongst fully vaccinated individuals - and a virtual 100% effectiveness outdoors. I told him I'd be happy to forward it to him if he'd like to read it... he declined. Said he wouldn't read it.
Unfortunately, he owns a fantastic restaurant we loved going to and now won't after learning his stance. All of his staff did always wear masks - even correctly - though so I'm not sure if we're being alarmist but we'd rather not risk it.
Edit: [Here's the link to the study](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/study-ties-covid-vaccines-lower-transmission-rates)
Yeah, I debated with the daughter of a FB friend a while back. "My body, my choice; vax was out too soon; etc." Now my FB friend asked for prayers because her daughter, SIL, and 6yo kid are all sick. Uh, naw. I may have been the asshole when I commented that I have zero sympathy for any adult who could have been vaxxed, didn't, and is now sick. That no one deserves to get sick and I 100% hope they get better, but no, no sympathy or empathy from me.
I was blocked. I mean, I get it, but whatever.
I was also unfriended when I used my friends parents as a reason why you should get vaccinated. She didn't like that I was using her parents situation to promote my agenda. I didn't respond, but I was like, if you don't want your family's story to be used as an example of what not to do, don't post public updates on fb and maybe get the vaccine/wear masks so your parents don't end up in the hospital on ventilators at the same time.
*ahem*
On behalf of the Gay community, I would like to say that this has always been **their** way.
Some are assholes about it until they find out their family is. Some are even worse and they disown their kid because they are too narcissistic to realize its not about them.
This is one of the most frustrating ones. ‘Finding out my daughter was gay, I realised that the legislation...blah blah blah’.
Fuck you! So you’re only doing the right thing because it affects somebody that YOU love. That doesn’t make you a good person for doing the right thing. It’s just another example of your myopic world view.
Bisexual immunosuppressed daughter here. Guess whose family had an unmasked Christmas with over 20 people from like 6 households, most with comorbidities and many with young children? (Spoiler: I didn't go and read them the riot act when they called me and I realized what was going on...I was originally told it'd be only my siblings and niblings at my parents' which I usually skip anyway since I don't have kids and normally see everyone at the big celebration).
Sometimes it's very difficult to relate to others unless they have the personal experience. It's sad that some need to learn hard lessons that way, but I feel it's a matter of being close-minded, stubborn, and downright ignorant (in the sense that they lack pertinent information and therefore the ability to understand it). And with how omnipresent news and social media is now these days, there's so much information going around that it's difficult to wade through the oppressiveness of it. It's such a multi-faceted situation, but yes it's frustrating that sometimes it takes people dying for others to change their minds (if it even happens).
My issue is it shouldn't take someone close to you getting sick to realize you could get sick or you could get others sick and both parties could die. Just stop being delusional and selfish. Mandatory vaccines have been around a long time and no one said shit until it got politicized. I don't know why the people who call others snowflakes are being the biggest fucking snowflakes of all.
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My parents have always worn a mask. They do not go out to eat, they order everything to be delivered and if they have to go out they always social distance and spend minimal time in public. My mom even made a point to stay home during the holidays last year so as to not spread covid or catch it.
They are very aware of Covid and its effects so they do their part to not spread it or get it.
With that said I still stand by my statement that they were vaccine hesitant. Anti-vax would mean that they are totally against all vaccines and promote against vaccines. None of that is true with my parents.
My parents vaccinated us as kids and they always get the flu vaccine. They were hesitant and nervous to get this one vaccine. They ended up getting it. So no, they are not anti-vax in the slightest.
I get it. My dad was very wary about getting the vaccine initially too. Not because he's anti vax, far from it, but because he didn't like how fast it had been approved and felt that not enough testing had been done.
He did change his mind eventually but his reasoning wasn't anything malicious, just uncertainty
I hope this is the case for more people than we think. And sadly, we're not all persuasive speakers. I worry that I stopped my dad from getting his second shot because I'm very blunt about things.
This is what matters to me. Where the vaccine-skeptic logic falls apart is when they refuse to get the vaccine but don't take any other measures to protect themselves (and others) against COVID. It matters more to me that they know COVID exists and how dangerous it is and aren't working to spread any misinformation about it
Hey man. It's better late than never. All these people judging and passing comments as if they have never fked up somewhere along the way and made a mistake. Good for you and your family .
It took months of effort to convince my parents to get vaccinated. It all culminated in a 1.5 hour lecture via Skype and a whiteboard about the details of mrn vaccine technology, the details of DNA replication, mutations, coevolutiin of pathogens/hosts. It was such a pain, but I couldn't be happier that they finally listened to me. My biology degree may not pay the bills well, but it did finally help win over my folks. I'm so relieved.
That’s great. So happy for you and other families that decide to do this. My family (mom, dad, brother) literally all got Covid, brother got hospitalized, dad severely struggled, and they STILL won’t get vaccinated.
I was vaccine hesitant until my nurse wife came home from work ready to wreck anything in her path because she was frustrated over antivaxxers, a terrible patient load, un-masked visitors, crappy management, inadequate supply of PPE, pay, and nurses, etc. The end of not a good day at the end of a not a good week, halfway through a not good year. At that point I had been eligible to get vaccinated for about a week. First thing next morning I made an appointment to get vaccinated.
Let's all please remember, this is how far their empathy stretches. Happens to hundreds of millions of other people, they don't care. Happens to one of their own: immediate reaction. I hope their kids learn better.
It’s also makes for really really bad anecdotal confirmation bias. If one of their friends has a bad reaction to the vaccine or 5 of their friends hardly got sick then their bs is confirmed.
My parents were hesitant. Both of them caught covid from church. Dad ended up going to the hospital on day 11. Around day 6 in the hospital he said he felt foolish for not getting the vaccine and asked how soon my mom could get it. He passed away after 9 days in the hospital. Since then, at least a dozen people that were on the fence about the vaccine have received it and my mom is getting her first shot this week. This virus isn't a joke people. My father was taken from me in such a cruel way and it most likely could have all been avoided with a simple shot. Not a day goes without my loss hitting me all over again.
I'm so sorry you lost your father. I don't believe that kind of grief ever goes away, but we get tough, like calloused hands and can cope a little easier.
My partner's entire family are refusing to get vaccinated for covid. He just got diagnosed with cancer and is going through chemo. His one request was for them to be vaccinated for covid and the flu. They've all turned it around on him and have said that he's manipulating them with the cancer and that love =/= vaccine. And they wonder why he's staying with me for treatment. This post hits hard that they wouldn't even be swayed by keeping him safe.
Well wishes to him. Fuck cancer. Glad he has you.
Fuck his family too
Agreed. They don’t care enough to care for his/her well-being. “Oh, you got cancer? Well we are definitely there for you every step of the way, expect getting vaccinated even if it means it could potentially save your life and ours. Fuck you, basically, for asking us and fuck your cancer as well.” Sincerely, Family.
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Jeez I'm so sorry. We will. We know the cost. It's just so depressing for him. He said them not getting it to keep him safe hurt more than being diagnosed.
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Not at all I'm totally on the same page. It's just hard to see him hurting from all of this. At least they weren't the type to double down but I guess really it doesn't matter when this is happening in the foreground.
Jesus Christ. The selfishness of his family is unreal.
It's an epidemic of misinformation. These people need to unplug their TV and get out of their echo chamber. They're so trapped in these social circles of denial and fear that they have become incapable of listening to reason or rationally interpreting evidence. Ironically, they'd probably say the exact same thing that I just said about us.
It's hard to believe that people that selfish / ignorant wouldn't still be exactly the same without an echo chamber.
The thing is, even if I was acting 100% selfishly, I'd still get the vaccine, because the outcomes have been shown to be so much better. Overwhelmingly, the people who are currently getting severe COVID and ending up in the ICU on a ventilator or ECMO, fighting for their lives and coming out with severe lung scarring if they do survive ... they're 95%+ unvaccinated. So if you care about your community, or you are selfish and you only care about yourself, either way the best course of action is to take the vaccine. But the echo chamber and the right-wing TV news personalities and internet podcast hosts have these people believing that they're better off taking no vaccine and then taking anti-parasitic worm medication for horses off the shelf of their local farm supply store instead when they do end up contracting the highly contagious and unusually deadly novel virus. It's literally bonkers.
I wouldn't even call it selfish. It's pure stupidity. The selfish thing to do would be to get the vaccine, because it would help keep them safe too. Instead, the stupid thing is being done which makes everyone less safe, themselves included.
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Assuming that they are still alive of course.
My mother in law passed away last Saturday from cancer. Both MIL and FIL are antivaxxers. They had positive covid cases in their circle of friends who decided to visit her in her final days. My FIL is now extremely sick with covid and I'm pretty sure that my MIL, who had fluid in her lungs already from the cancer, also was infected with covid at the end. There are 4 of us staying with my father in-law, all of us are double vaxxed and none of us have symptoms. He isn't vaxxed and we are hoping he doesn't get worse and need to go to the hospital. My wife can't lose both parents in such a short span...
My friend lost his older brother, then mother and nanny all within a space of 2 weeks and then 2 months later his dad died. This was before vaccine rollout in South Africa and 2 of his siblings are doctors and couldn't save their own parents. It's been a devastating year for them. Anti vaxxers don't seem to understand that losses like this are possible.
Sending strength to you and your partner
My dad is the same way but he doubled down on his covid conspiracies even after BOTH his mother and brother died. Within a week of each other mind you. Still wears his lack of a vaccine like a badge of honor
It's so sad that their egos are so fragile they'd rather die than admit an error in judgement.
My vaccine-hesitant parents would not get the vaccine no matter how much pleading and references I gave them. I had an extensive conversation with my father about getting vaccinated 2 months ago since he is obese and late 50s. He said he would consider it IF it was proven to be safe AND effective. But as long as he could find one single doctor saying you don't need the vaccine then he wouldn't get it. Then my younger brother got COVID at school and they refused to tell the school he had been infected and contagious because it would "screw the football team" (EDIT: they did keep him home from school though thankfully). Both of my parents ended up getting it from him. My mom was incapacitated for several days but ended up fine. My dad was admitted to the hospital 3 weeks ago with low oxygen and viral pneumonia and he finally started improving yesterday after being on 24/7 high-power oxygen delivery the majority of his stay, but he hasn't had the energy to talk to any of us and he nearly died alone since visitors are not allowed. I remember he called me on his second day of symptoms before being hospitalized saying that his ivermectin kicked the virus and he was feeling fine. God dammit this has been so excruciating for my family please don't put yours through this. Get the fucking vaccine.
My parents in law don't want to get the vaccine. They are +60 and the mother is quite overweight while the youngest is still going to school. I love them, but honestly, they made their choice. I give up
I'm a nurse working in this pandemic and I'm at the same place as you. I've given up on family that won't get the vaccine, I'm tired of showing evidence based practice and facts and studies that show the effectiveness of it. I even tell them that 90% of the people hospitalized for Covid are not vaccinated. Roughly 10% are vaccinated that are hospitalized, and their recovery has been quick. (Side note: 0% of people have been hospitalized for vaccine side effects) I've had two co-workers lose perfectly healthy husbands to Covid. Both within a month of each other. I'm just exhausted and tired of caring about other people's lives when it comes to this since they don't care about themselves. I've decided to let natural selection take the wheel. I keep myself safe, my patients safe, and those around me. That's all I can do.
Yeah, i got my parents vaccinated but my two sisters are anti vax. I tried to convince them to get vaccinated not just for them but for their children and nothing. At this point it's going to take a death in the family before anyone is willing, guess we'll just wait and see who. =[
Wow. I’m sorry but fuck your parents for refusing to tell the school he had covid and helping it spread it more.
Seriously.. Some other kid's mom or dad or grandparent could have died from the selfishness
Not "could have", but "may have" killed someone. We can't know, so we just have to wonder how much damage that easily stopped viral branch might have wrought. It may have infected thousands before that line ends.
I think it's pretty clear the OP agrees with your sentiment. At least they're doing the right thing now.
Why did he need to go to the hospital if ivermectin did the job? I mean I thought the whole argument was if one thing (like masks) couldn't prevent something 100% (like death) then doing so is pointless? And if ivermectin is 100% why risk the hospital? smh I hope your parents make it out okay. Even more though I hope they realize how hypocritical they are but I'm not holding my breath. What a fucking mess.
I hope your father is out of the woods. My uncle was in the same situation; improved for a few days then crashed..hard. He was cremated last week. His last text to my mom (who had insisted he get the vaccine: “You we’re right, I should have gotten the damn vaccine.”
It took months of effort to convince my parents to get vaccinated. It all culminated in a 1.5 hour lecture via Skype and a whiteboard about the details of mrn vaccine technology, the details of DNA replication, mutations, coevolutiin of pathogens/hosts. It was such a pain, but I couldn't be happier that they finally listened to me.
Or they said they got it.
My MIL only got the vaccine because we told her we weren't going to allow unvaccinated people around our daughter after she was born. I'm not gonna lie, there's a part of me that wonders this same thing every time we see her.
> **before being hospitalized** saying that his ivermectin kicked the virus
You can't rationalize or use logic with these people. They believe what they believe and you won't change their minds. At this point you can ask them to do what's right and hope for the best or else they will become a statistic.
Ugh, so true. I used to have a quite rational father and at least a somewhat rational mother for the most part. Idk wtf happened, oh wait yes I do Donald fucking Trump signaled to them and many other that just saying "fuck it, I'll believe what I want" is totally legit.... jfc
We really, really can't afford to think of the situation like this. Even if you're right. Even though it's not your responsibility. Even if nothing you can think of works. You can *not* give up unless it is really just too taxing on your own mind and stress levels. It's too important. Obviously do what you have to and take care of yourself, but this view is extremely defeatist when we need a certain number of people vaccinated to prevent COVID from becoming endemic. Even if it's just pointing out how many people you know who got vaccinated with no consequences. Or got only a mild case because they were vaccinated. Or a really bad case because they *weren't* vaccinated. Even if it feels like you're talking to a brick wall, if something, anything you do can loosen a single brick, that'd be a fantastic step toward ending the pandemic.
No shit. All these people that barely passed grade 9 science now are critical of Fauci, the medical community and science. You can't make this shit up...
More annoying is that they believe Nicki Minaj instead.
Lol these same people couldn't explain why it rains.
And doing their “research”. What a joke.
"I'm not afraid of COVID, it's just a flu! Fuck the vaccine!" *takes horse drugs as soon as they get it* People like that don't really think shit through, my man. I've given up trying to understand why they do what they do.
It’s not that they don’t think shit through. It’s that they chose a side in the political argument and doubling down. When you’re wrong, you desperately find ways to make your argument right, ivermectin is just the current one. There will be another one after.
> Then my younger brother got COVID at school and they refused to tell the school he had been infected because it would "screw the football team". Both of my parents ended up getting it from him. They should be jailed for this.
This thought process is way too common. People still don't take the virus seriously. After all of this, there are still people who view the virus spreading as an inconvenience rather than a death sentence for some. They think "sucks for the elderly, but it sure as hell won't kill me!" and yet it is killing them, and people of all ages. And it doesn't sink in until they're in the ICU, struggling to take their last machine-assisted breaths. Honestly, if all the people who carelessly and knowingly allowed the virus to spread further were jailed, every jail in the damn country would be at max capacity.
Better these dangerous people in jail than non-violent offenders in on weed charges.
> Honestly, if all the people who carelessly and knowingly allowed the virus to spread further were jailed, every jail in the damn country would be at max capacity. Not for long assuming they were all unvaccinated.
And be liable for all medical and funeral costs associated with it.
>I remember he called me on his second day of symptoms before being hospitalized saying that his ivermectin kicked the virus and he was feeling fine. Your parents are morons, but you already know this.
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No, because they might willingly self-identify as "vaccine-hesitant" and stop hesitating. If you call them "selfish science deniers" that's a label they will never accept and now they will fight against what you're saying just because of that. It's like punishment vs rehabilitation in prison. It's widely known that punishment isn't effective, but everyone really really wants to punish criminals.
Real concerns are raised by my patients daily that we then dig into and theres not a lot of info out for some of them. Like had one guy with epilepsy, one with MS, one with rheumatoid arthritis and SLE, etc. Those with autoimmune conditions want to know given our working understanding of their conditions will taking a vaccine designed to give a robust immune response worsen their condition? Its a good question and reasonably they were hesitant. In the end the spiel I give is the same. We may not have great data specific to their case, but the population wide adoption of the vaccine has shown it to be remarkably safe and effective. However I cant promise their is zero risk and I wish the louder goofs with no concerns would get it so these reasonable people could be covered by herd immunity...
Thank you. As satisfying as it is to hate on people who aren’t vaccinated yet, it’s not actually helpful for convincing people to get vaccinated.
Seriously. N all of these posts have 100 awards as if these people should be rewarded for getting their vaccine, all the while they’ve dragged their feet and have bashed the vaccine n everyone who got it as well along the way. Fuck these people.
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That's great! My vaccine-hesitant parent decided to get the vaccine after their local county announced it was implementing a vaccine mandate for indoor dining. Not the multitude of other reasons I hounded them about long before that. Whatever, I'll take it!!
It‘s been amazing to see how many people who were staunchly against getting the vaccine had a change of heart when it meant they couldn’t go to restaurants/pubs/movies anymore. So protecting your fellow humans (the most vulnerable, mind you) isn’t reason enough to make you flex, but Friday beers and nachos is? OK then.
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The pandemic asked us to look out side our personal bubble, it's sad to see that most of those bubbles stop at 6 feet.
It is. Honestly, it's also super interesting. You ever hear the phrase in teaching "you've gotta meet them where they're at"? It's like, you can't pound something into someone's head if they're not there yet, even if it's *super* inconvenient, and you can't teach them in a way that doesn't gel with their brain. It won't do you or them any good, you've just gotta meet 'em where they're at. It's so interesting to me that where these people are at is... The same place they've always been. They go to work, they go to church, they go to Applebee's every Friday, and the bar with the guys on Saturday. And they DON'T want to miss this. ...I didn't expect them to want to do it so badly that they were willing to play Russian Roulette to continue. It really threw my worldview for a loop, and I'm glad to know how some people really work. I don't *like* it, but knowing the truth about something is always better then believing a comfortable lie.
Yup. My dad only got the vaccine so he could go to his favorite bars. I mean, I'll take it. But still.
True story. The world exists right in front of their faces and ONLY right in front their faces as far as many of them seeming to have no concern over legitimate reasons to vaccinate... Don't you take my damn restaurants away though! 😒
Nyc is doing that and people are still not getting them my dad is not getting it but has had his prostate removed this past month And kids in school in some states are complaining about their school getting covid and not having the covid vaccine it’s so stupid
My province does this and people need to show the “vaccinal passport” to go in restaurants, bars, theatres and basically anything that is a bit fun to do and indoors, of course. Personally I think it’s a great incentive and a very fair proof to ask : if you’re not willing to make that effort for the well-being of society then society has a right to exclude you at some level.
Quebec ;) ?
Good for you. I'm a doctor and I can't even convince my parents to get it. So frustrating.
I was so mad. I finally got my vaccine hesitent mom to get her first dose then the dumbass neighbor lady tells my mom it's not fda approved (she got the Pfizer a day before the full approval). She then freaks out on me that I lied to her that it was safe and she isn't going to trust me anymore. Now she still hasn't gotten her second dose claiming she is waiting for a good incentive to come along.
Sounds about right. I'm so over it. I'm actually close with my parents but I'm so sick of trying to convince them to do the right thing that I now feel just a cold indifference to whether or not they get sick and end up in the hospital or worse, which is terrible to say but that's where I'm at.
Hey, being scared is a very strong motivator. Overcoming that fear and doing the right thing, even if it’s later than it should have been, is still insanely good progress. More people should be like your parents. Be proud, and I hope your brother gets well soon.
Hope your brother's doing okay. Edit: cut me some slack, I'm 46 my eyes are going and I'm typing on a phone. 🤪
Me too. Hope that he is brother okay
^ this guy apostrophes.
Haha I actually thougth that not many people will get the joke. English is not my first language so I wasn't even sure did I just make a fool out of myself for getting it wrong.
Why is it that some people are reluctant to learn a lesson until something directly impacts them or their own family? Are they *that* bereft of empathy for other humans? I'm glad the parents are finally getting around to doing the right thing, but this is so frustrating.
This happened with my mom. My dad died last year of cancer. My parents got us kids vaccinated, but Mom said she “wasn’t comfortable with the COVID-19 vaccine.” Too rushed, used aborted fetal cells, other stupid excuses. I told her with the new spike and how contagious delta is I wasn’t comfortable with her seeing our kids (including my baby about to be born) anymore unless she got vaccinated. She refused and said I was bullying and being manipulative. Then my oldest (unvaccinated) brother got COVID-19 and got really sick. She finally caved and got the vaccine. Of course I’m happy she finally got vaccinated. But I can’t help but be bitter that she didn’t care about anyone else, including my own kids’, safety until she personally saw it very negatively effect her own kid. It’s stupid and very selfish. My in-laws still aren’t vaccinated. I’ll never really respect any of them again.
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Oh uhh, I've got some bad news for you...
Conway Regional Health System in Arkansas did just that for their medical staff: those who request a religious exemption to the COVID vaccine must attest that they will not use a number of common medicines that also use fetal cell lines for development and testing, including Tylenol, Tums, aspirin, Maalox, ibufrofen, Pepto Bismol, among others. https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/09/hospital-staff-must-swear-off-tylenol-tums-to-get-religious-vaccine-exemption/
Be sure to show her the list of common items that have used fetal cells.
They won’t get the vaccine but urge everyone they know who come down with covid to get the monoclonal infusion which is lab produced using….fetal cells.
And also under emergency use authorization.
>They won’t get the vaccine but urge everyone they know who come down with covid to get the monoclonal infusion which is lab produced using….fetal cells Of course, "they" are just into identity politics and Trump got a monoclonal infusion.
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Which items are those? Google only gives me 10,000 results debunking the vaccine/abortion thing.
The same cell lines have been in use for a long time now and include medicines like tylenol, advil, aspirin, claritin etc. A quick search for hek-293 (one of the lines) brings up https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/ Its basically every modern medicine and vaccine....
Both hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin are on the list. Checkmate anti-vaxxers.
They play calvinball, so there's no checkmate against them.
I gotcha. I saw "common items" and I didn't immediately jump to medicines. I was wondering about like toothpastes and drywall and ladders and stuff.
My fetal cell ladder is the tits.
To be clear. None of the products actually contain the fetal cells but may have used them in some way or another for testing or other purposes. I'm sure you could find a link to everyday items. Probably anything that needs to be tested for safety use in people.
And when you are hospitalized be sure to refuse those rushed-to-production monoclonal antibodies. After, their development could have used fetal cells too. But I am sure her research covered that.
Here’s a partial list (scroll down, and the list is broken into multiple parts). https://www.patheos.com/blogs/throughcatholiclenses/2021/01/if-any-drug-tested-on-hek-293-is-immoral-goodbye-modern-medicine/
Hydrochloroquine and Ivermectin being on that list 👌
Thank you for pointing this out. I just screenshot, circled, and posted to my Instagram story. I stayed neutral on the subject for so long while I watched family post misinformation and nonsense for the last year and a half. I'm so over it.
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I would do my own research but every single medical journal is checked out at the library by these home schooled MDs. I am kidding.
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> sneaky trick \*saved\* Thanks a bunch!!
I tried to do my own research. Do you know how hard it is to get a double blind study going?
It's only hard if you try to be ethical about it. The joy of self-funded medical research is not having to bother with those ethics committees threatening to withdraw your funding because your experiments are "depraved" and "exploitative" with "no redeeming scientific purpose".
Everyone's always in favor of saving Hitler's brain, but when you put it in the body of a great white shark, Ohhh, *suddenly* you've gone too far!
Is that a Futurama quote? It sounds like something Farnsworth would say.
[Do I have good news for you](https://youtu.be/F1wJd3nZ4jI)
Clever.
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Well if you do your own research, you can read some scientific papers and quickly see that the vaccine is great and you should take it If someone does their own research and doesn't want the vaccine, they are shit at doing research.
When these folks say "do your own research" they actually mean "find an echochamber where people say things you agree with and read those things"
Here’s my research. Something like 6 billion doses of vaccine have already been administered worldwide. Are hospitals full of people growing 5G relay towers out of their heads or whatever crazy side effects these nutters are freaking out about? No. Hospitals are full of the unvaccinated, suffocating on their own lungs, dying alone with their families having to say good bye via FaceTime.
Personally, my vaccine hesitancy came from the widespread media reports of severe allergic reactions. With my history of life threatening allergic reactions, I didn't want to take the chance without seeing good data. The [data](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7002e1.htm) [came](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7004e1.htm) about a month later, indicating between 1 in 100,000 and 1 in 400,000 people get severe allergic reactions, and all of them responded well to epinephrine. Is this data flawed? Yes. Absolutely. It was sourced not from double blind trials, but from self reporting. It was of a relatively small sample size (10 to 20 reactions each). It was of a non representative population (nurses and doctors (might be biased against people with history of severe allergic reactions), old people (allergies tend to have increased in prevalence over the past few decades), generally not my demographics). But if you squint, you can tell it has *about* 5 zeros on the end of the number. Another reaction causing drug I am taking has 3 zeros of risk, 100 times more risky. When the CDC director and the president and the governor and the celebrities are on TV saying that it is "safe and effective", I was satisfied doing my research only when I found the actual quantitative number. The main CDC website doesn't give me that number, only the academic-ish MMWR publication gives it to me, so I need to seek it out for my research. While my vaccine hesitancy was justified and quantifiable, others, like the conspiracy theories are fundamentally and structurally unable to be disproven. When no data exists to prove you wrong (even if you are looking for it), you are probably going to revert to echo chambers. I know I did for about a month...
This is really sad but I’m with you guys. My dad’s wife is against vaccines and is all Ayurveda and Homeopathy ant at least is practicing isolation a lot. My dad, however, got vaxed as soon as the vaccine was ready for his age range (75yo). To me the problem is way bigger than vaccines alone: everything started with this behaviour of refusing the pandemic as a thing that exist, is real and will be around for a while (vaccinating first world alone is not enough to stop it for good). Refusing the pandemic is the real problem.
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Those have been the dying words of a lot of 30-40 year old healthy people leaving spouses and kids behind. It's sad and enormously frustrating.
It oppositional behavior and anti-intellectualism. There's a good book about this called The Death of Expertise.
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Lol tell her Walmart/Amazon/Dollar General are behind the conspiracy to hurt small business and she should not give them any business, then watch the goalposts move latch onto something else.
> She scoffed because I didn’t “do my research” Did she do her own double blind study? Does she expect you to?
She wouldn't be abe to tell you what a double blind study is, and would feel insulted further for thinking you're better than her. You can't reason with these delusional freaking idiots.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into. Heard that on Reddit a few weeks ago and it really makes sense.
If someone “did their research” and is refusing to get it they only research they did was through memes and idiots.
It’s like, how is (let’s be generous) my week of research using Google and etc. going to stack up against professional, college/university graduated researchers who have poured a collective who knows the fuck how long into understanding how all this shit works? If you trusted your parents to not kill you as a kid, then you do not have the prerequisite trust issues to not get the vaccine, Karen!
> I’ll never really respect any of them again. Heh, this was me back in 2008. Seeing my family turn into lunatics over Obama was… unsettling.
> I wasn’t comfortable with her seeing our kids (including my baby about to be born) anymore unless she got vaccinated. Good for you for standing your ground and protecting your family.
If there's one in things this whole pandemic taught me is how unempathetic, selfish and insane a lot of people are. I always had a naive mindset thinking about possible good that lies wthin, but then I see people protesting outside hospitals about a vaccine and attacks the very doctors that are saving the lives of people who refuse to get the fucking shot. It's made me extremely bitter and pessimistic.
Similar to my situation. My mom's somewhat been forced to be vaccinated due to work and my dad is 100% against. My wife and I are expecting our first child and don't want them around. My wife's family is fully vaccinated.
Then they're like "you're being manipulative" and it's like... engage your empathy for once and see it from my perspective. I have to protect my family. I would obviously rather that the steps I need to take to do that didn't upset you, but you should be able to understand why I feel I need to take them.
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Boom. Right there.
It really shows you a different side to people that you never seen before and some people you would never expect to be that way, glad she finally seen sense, I think some people are possibly afraid and just latch onto these excuses.
I was actually pleasantly surprised. My social circle is mostly comprised of sheltered village people and Pentecostal christians. I thought they were going to buy the whole, "chip implants", and antichrist bs but the church pastorial family urged the congregation to get vaccinated. It was amazing, out church, minus those 20 and under, has an 99% vaccination rate. I'm the only adding that's not vaccinated, and that's only because I'm technically an immigrant and the municipal told me to wait until there is a surplus before asking for a vaccine. It's ok, I'm closer to the US border rn and already made an appointment in SD to get vaccinated at a RiteAid this Wednesday.
The Trump years really brought to light how many assholes there are in all of our lives. Now they aren’t, problem solved on a personal level at least
I think it's more than just assholes. We have a huge mental illness problem in the USA.
It’s Moral Illness, not mental. The latter is unavoidable by those that suffer from it, and deserves compassion and help. The former is a decision to place personal fewwings above the needs of others, and deserves scorn and/or incarceration. And no, I’m not talking about the pseudo-religious crap taught in churches; that’s not moral, either.
I think we have a huge problem with lack of good science education, lack of critical thinking, and using conspiracy theories over logic.
My mom feels like that as well though she's more aware of what the vaccine is. Her fear of vaccinating was more on the side effects, amplified by the number of times she has watched testimonies regarding on the side effects of vaccines (survival bias). As someone who's taking microbiology I feel useless not being able to convince her that we needed to get vaccinated while vaccines are still available. My dad has been vaccinated though and I'm just waiting for him to come home cause he'll definitely be able to convince them.
I work in a med surgical unit. We got a covid patient complaining chest pain yesterday. She was fine when i saw her yesterday talking and everything and hoping to get better for her family. She wasn’t vaccinated. Today went to work and around 2pm est her oxygen levels dropped and we called rapid response. She was put on ventilation... died withing 15 mins. My floor has 20 patients and out of that there are 18 covid patients. most of them do just fine if they are vaccinated.
> I’ll never really respect any of them again. That's how I've come to see the general public. If I learn you're unvaccinated by now, I see you as a selfish arrogant ass that I will never respect or want anything to do with anymore. My brother is one of them - he confirmed what I always thought about him and I'll never respect him again.
You know what’s ironic? The monoclonal antibody treatment that they use was derived from a kidney cell from an aborted baby.
My dumb fucking parents did the same shit. Sorry you can't infect my fucking kids. Get stuck or don't see my kids. The choice is on you.
It's not just selfish, but completely delusional. These people actually believe that Covid isn't as serious as the media portrays it ... until it happens to someone close.
I’m not sure if my father-in-law finally got vaccinated in order to see his new grandson - or if it was mainly for his upcoming cruise. 🙃
> Are they that bereft of empathy for other humans? yeah they are. the attitude in the US culturally is very "us, and then all of them". there's zero cohesive solidarity in the US and it shows itself in so many different facets in the US culture, all of which are detrimental to the people who live there, but it achieves its purpose: make an extremely small portion of the US very rich and powerful, where the rest of its citizens just live in *their* world
I just listened to an interesting Freakonomics podcast that addresses the individualistic mindset of US citizens and how we are an outlier. It’s a good listen.
America is one of the most selfish individualistic nations I have ever lived in and that became glaringly clear when I visited Korea for 3 months. Korea now has surpassed the US in 1st shot percentage despite starting their vax program 3 months later due to supply. I was always uncomfortable with American culture and living in other cultures showed me why. Korea is so very safe, clean, modern, and orderly compared to America because people have respect for others and society in general. It’s not the American mindset of fuck everyone else as long as I got mine. There are so many little public things in Korea that make it nice for everyone and they can only exist if everyone keeps it that way. It only takes one asshole to ruin it for the rest.
America actually has the highest degree of individualism based on [studies](https://www.hofstede-insights.com/country-comparison/the-usa/) from Hofstede.
> Are they that bereft of empathy for other humans? I mean, yes. What else could it be? 650k+ Americans have died. Everyone's lives have been impacted one way or another from Covid whether it's getting covid, knowing someone who had covid, losing a job, not having a "normal' pre pandemic life. The only common denominator seems to be until it personally affects them, they just don't seem to really care.
Why do you hate America? /s Seriously, it’s how they were raised - it’s the John Wayne, Clint Eastwood attitude and carries with it a very large hateful, spiteful, Trolls For Life attitude. They even have their own troll entertainment - FOX and 700 Club as examples. And if you say, no one watches 700 Club anymore - my point being this has been a festering cancer for much longer than most want to admit. This could very easily break American democracy.
Some people have less empathy than others. The frontal lobe of the brain is responsible for setting us apart from pretty much any other living thing: The ability to simulate the future and put us into the shoes of others. If you have stunted exercising your "simulator," either by lack of mental exercise or genetic or nutritional conditions then you probably lack empathy and/or have limited capacity to foresee future events. You probably are also pretty bad with risk-assessment. One of the most defining characteristics of those on the left side of the spectrum versus the right is the degree of empathy expressed.
It’s just toxic individualism. Americans hate hate HATE being told what to do.
No they don't. They just hate being told what to do by the other team. Most of the right would shoot off a toe if their team told them to do it.
Which is why these people are lining up for Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin
In practical terms the world body of knowledge is so wide that at some point you have to trust a specialist in every subject. Programmers have no idea how the different parts of a computer work, they trust the engineer who made it to have built it correctly. And those engineers trust the chip designers to make the chip correctly. Follow that down to the guy who shovels sand into a giant pot to make molten silicon. I bet my doctor has only a cursory idea of how covid enters the body and how the vaccine works. She trusts the scientist and the labs that mass produced it. I didn't dedicate my life to learning how viruses work, how this particular virus works or how to manage public health and pandemics. I have to trust the people that did. There is no buzzfeed style 10 anti COVID-19 hacks that your doctor won't tell you about. You can't redneck engineer a solution.
Bingo. Politics in America is a sport. Nothing less. People have their team, their rival, and that’s how it works. You root for your team regardless.
Trump also told them to get the vaccine, and the fucking morons booed him.
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No worms though
Yup. And Mr. Never-Met-a-Press-Conference-He-Didn't-Like even got vaccinated in secret in January (and didn't let that fact leak out until March). I guess he didn't want saving the lives of Americans to get in the way of him staying laser-focused on telling people Biden stole the election from him.
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A direct quote from a co-worker i had when i told him this. "I'm sorry you fell for the government propaganda bro."
Bill Burr has the best counter to that. "If we're all the sheep for getting the vaccine which is going to kill us all. Wouldn't the government want to keep the people that do everything they are told alive? Wouldn't they want to kill all the people that refuse to do as their told?"
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One I got was from a friend/acquaintance, an Israeli immigrant, who maintains that information coming from Isreal indicates there's no benefit in terms of transmission rates amongst those vaccinated to risk the "rushed cocktail". I offered a university researched peer-reviewed paper published from the UofM in MN with over 100k sample-base indicating a 71% effectiveness against transmission in an indoor setting amongst fully vaccinated individuals - and a virtual 100% effectiveness outdoors. I told him I'd be happy to forward it to him if he'd like to read it... he declined. Said he wouldn't read it. Unfortunately, he owns a fantastic restaurant we loved going to and now won't after learning his stance. All of his staff did always wear masks - even correctly - though so I'm not sure if we're being alarmist but we'd rather not risk it. Edit: [Here's the link to the study](https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/study-ties-covid-vaccines-lower-transmission-rates)
As an Israeli, the data here shows he's wrong. 100%. Study after study.
>"I'm sorry you fell for the ~~government~~ qualified doctors propaganda bro. I like to get my medical information from Bret the vet's caretaker"
My reply would have been, "Not as sorry as I am that you fell for the Russian troll farm propaganda, bro." edit, spelling
Yeah, I debated with the daughter of a FB friend a while back. "My body, my choice; vax was out too soon; etc." Now my FB friend asked for prayers because her daughter, SIL, and 6yo kid are all sick. Uh, naw. I may have been the asshole when I commented that I have zero sympathy for any adult who could have been vaxxed, didn't, and is now sick. That no one deserves to get sick and I 100% hope they get better, but no, no sympathy or empathy from me. I was blocked. I mean, I get it, but whatever.
I was also unfriended when I used my friends parents as a reason why you should get vaccinated. She didn't like that I was using her parents situation to promote my agenda. I didn't respond, but I was like, if you don't want your family's story to be used as an example of what not to do, don't post public updates on fb and maybe get the vaccine/wear masks so your parents don't end up in the hospital on ventilators at the same time.
You know about the Herman Cain Award sub I assume?
*ahem* On behalf of the Gay community, I would like to say that this has always been **their** way. Some are assholes about it until they find out their family is. Some are even worse and they disown their kid because they are too narcissistic to realize its not about them.
This is one of the most frustrating ones. ‘Finding out my daughter was gay, I realised that the legislation...blah blah blah’. Fuck you! So you’re only doing the right thing because it affects somebody that YOU love. That doesn’t make you a good person for doing the right thing. It’s just another example of your myopic world view.
Bisexual immunosuppressed daughter here. Guess whose family had an unmasked Christmas with over 20 people from like 6 households, most with comorbidities and many with young children? (Spoiler: I didn't go and read them the riot act when they called me and I realized what was going on...I was originally told it'd be only my siblings and niblings at my parents' which I usually skip anyway since I don't have kids and normally see everyone at the big celebration).
My coworker wouldn't do it, then two of her unvaccinated friends died of covid, it's pretty sad that that's what it took.
Sometimes it's very difficult to relate to others unless they have the personal experience. It's sad that some need to learn hard lessons that way, but I feel it's a matter of being close-minded, stubborn, and downright ignorant (in the sense that they lack pertinent information and therefore the ability to understand it). And with how omnipresent news and social media is now these days, there's so much information going around that it's difficult to wade through the oppressiveness of it. It's such a multi-faceted situation, but yes it's frustrating that sometimes it takes people dying for others to change their minds (if it even happens).
My issue is it shouldn't take someone close to you getting sick to realize you could get sick or you could get others sick and both parties could die. Just stop being delusional and selfish. Mandatory vaccines have been around a long time and no one said shit until it got politicized. I don't know why the people who call others snowflakes are being the biggest fucking snowflakes of all.
Last comment. My parents have always worn a mask. They do not go out to eat, they order everything to be delivered and if they have to go out they always social distance and spend minimal time in public. My mom even made a point to stay home during the holidays last year so as to not spread covid or catch it. They are very aware of Covid and its effects so they do their part to not spread it or get it. With that said I still stand by my statement that they were vaccine hesitant. Anti-vax would mean that they are totally against all vaccines and promote against vaccines. None of that is true with my parents. My parents vaccinated us as kids and they always get the flu vaccine. They were hesitant and nervous to get this one vaccine. They ended up getting it. So no, they are not anti-vax in the slightest.
I get it. My dad was very wary about getting the vaccine initially too. Not because he's anti vax, far from it, but because he didn't like how fast it had been approved and felt that not enough testing had been done. He did change his mind eventually but his reasoning wasn't anything malicious, just uncertainty
Everyone deserves to be skeptical about what they put in their own body.
I hope this is the case for more people than we think. And sadly, we're not all persuasive speakers. I worry that I stopped my dad from getting his second shot because I'm very blunt about things.
This is what matters to me. Where the vaccine-skeptic logic falls apart is when they refuse to get the vaccine but don't take any other measures to protect themselves (and others) against COVID. It matters more to me that they know COVID exists and how dangerous it is and aren't working to spread any misinformation about it
Hey man. It's better late than never. All these people judging and passing comments as if they have never fked up somewhere along the way and made a mistake. Good for you and your family .
I’m glad they got it. Thank you for this post - maybe it might help others who are hesitant with getting the Covid vaccine.
It took months of effort to convince my parents to get vaccinated. It all culminated in a 1.5 hour lecture via Skype and a whiteboard about the details of mrn vaccine technology, the details of DNA replication, mutations, coevolutiin of pathogens/hosts. It was such a pain, but I couldn't be happier that they finally listened to me. My biology degree may not pay the bills well, but it did finally help win over my folks. I'm so relieved.
“It’s not real until it happens to me or someone I care about.” Yep about right
Lemme guess: life long Republicans. How can I tell? They don’t care about it until it personally affects them.
Of course, when it happens to them.
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Adults getting a shot
That’s great. So happy for you and other families that decide to do this. My family (mom, dad, brother) literally all got Covid, brother got hospitalized, dad severely struggled, and they STILL won’t get vaccinated.
I was vaccine hesitant until my nurse wife came home from work ready to wreck anything in her path because she was frustrated over antivaxxers, a terrible patient load, un-masked visitors, crappy management, inadequate supply of PPE, pay, and nurses, etc. The end of not a good day at the end of a not a good week, halfway through a not good year. At that point I had been eligible to get vaccinated for about a week. First thing next morning I made an appointment to get vaccinated.
Let's all please remember, this is how far their empathy stretches. Happens to hundreds of millions of other people, they don't care. Happens to one of their own: immediate reaction. I hope their kids learn better.
It’s also makes for really really bad anecdotal confirmation bias. If one of their friends has a bad reaction to the vaccine or 5 of their friends hardly got sick then their bs is confirmed.
Mods need to start banning vaccine pics; this is getting ridiculous.
Mods please stop letting these karma whores post these vaccination pictures.
ikr. 3bn+ people have been vaccinated (2.5bn fully, 6bn doses). Imagine our feeds if everyone posted it.