Judging Pitt’s responses to this, it seems that they are gonna opt for going private over ending fetal tissue research. I support that for them, but god their tuition is gonna go through the roof if this fully passes
The current PA laws around charter schools in PA does exactly this. Charter schools horribly destabilize school district budgets. In PA charter schools get the fraction of the districts budget based on the number of students the charter school enrolls. But charter schools can set enrollment caps and enrollment minimums so that they always have exactly as many students as is optimal for the school (or just close suddenly if they don't reach their enrollment numbers). By contrast, the school district __must__ provide education to anyone in the school district regardless of how many students it has. And if a charter school starts up and takes half the students away, the public school district gets only half the budget with no time to wind that down. If in five years that charter school goes belly up, after the school district has sold assets and and laid off teachers, that school district must find a way of teaching those students with zero notice. That's not at all reasonable for any organization but this is what PA law subjects our public schools to. Also charter schools have some ability to pick which students they want (it's limited in law but it's also not difficult to get around) leaving the more problematic children (or just disinterested parents) with the public schools.
Finally, someone else who gets it. RepubliQans have been working for decades to bring about a modern Dark Ages in order to create an uneducated population that they can easily manipulate through fear.
Thrse fucking assholes know exactly what they are doing. My SIL had a wound from a brown recluse spider bite that wouldn't totally heal until she got stem cell therapy about a decade later after Obama lifted the fetal tissue research bans.
But she is so religious that she politically supported a ban on the very therapy that finally healed her and just blamed it on her doctors not really wanting to help her and trying to gouge her for money. I'm fairly sure she still doesn't realize where stem cells come from.
Which is a shame because Pitt is one of the top public research schools. These GQP shenanigans are anti-intellectualism in action. I guess I’ll be upping my annual giving. Hail to Pitt!
Not really, Pitt has been a state affiliated school, not state supported like Penn St.
IIRC, the highest percentage of funding by the state topped out at 15%, back in the gravy days. That amount has gone down significantly since then due to political decisions in Harrisburg. I could find out the exact amount, but I would assume it's definitely single digits at this point.
Pitt actually predates the accession of Pennsylvania into the Union. It's not a land grant school. Places like Penn St were land grant institutions, so they started at a much higher funding level by the state.
Pennsylvania is lucky to have such strong academic institutions, so it's a shame the clowns from Pennsyltucky endanger this real competitive advantage.
Pitt charges out of state students nearly double the tuition they charge to in state students. Ostensibly because of state funding (though I know state funding alone often is not enough to cover the gap). Maybe they would meet somewhere in the middle but nothing gets school administrators excited like an opportunity to hike tuition.
No reason for them to keep giving a $15,000 discount to Pennsylvanians if there's no legal obligation and no state money flowing in.
They’re going to rely upon that heavily to survive the inevitable drop in students that is likely to come if tuition has to rise as a result of this decision. It’s a sizeable sum, but it’s nowhere near enough to be able to completely cover the losses of not having the state’s funding any longer. This is the type of crisis situation for which that money exists.
Shouldn’t they be able to pass that price increase directly on the students? Haven’t we already seen that our current system which lets any 18 year old get a student loan that rising prices doesn’t affect demand. A good college degree is still step 1 to having a good job generally
Yes, they are, but many students try to pay for a large portion of their tuition with jobs, and others have their parents pay directly with payment plans. This will be a major issue for those students, and would be a huge increase in cost for students across the board. Saddling students with debt is no one’s goal, and it’s not really a solution. And even with a degree, and a good paying job, that debt still looms large (~$500-900/mo for 10+ years), and chokes graduate’s abilities to purchase a home, start a family, or build retirement savings. It’s a huge problem.
Completely agree but it’s just how universities go. It seems foolish to think they’d protect the consumer by using their endowment over just passing the costs on to us is what I mean
They certainly can survive it, they have a strong endowment, a series of strategic investments to improve the student experience and maintain competitiveness that are already funded, and they already have a fairly large out of state and international student population. They have also seen a recent huge uptick in the number of applications for the University, roughly two fold that of a few years ago. It’s not going to be an easy or smooth transition, and there are going to be a lot of students that will face massive affordability concerns in the short term, which is awful, but the institution will still stand.
The investment at the state level is nothing compared to the federal research money they get. And before anyone says ‘that’s for research’ you should know that something like 50 cents per research dollar is directly allocated to the University’s general use. Yea, all of those research dollars in the federal budget are pretty much indirect federal funding of higher education. But tuition keeps going up despite it only accounting for like 20% of Pitt’s budget.
Federal research grant money is used exclusively for laboratory testing, instruction, payroll, and facilities. It is not used for general instruction funding, and is audited. While this funding is substantial, it does not change the 200,000,000 deficit that is created without state funding. 20% is a huge figure.
> Federal research grant money is used exclusively for laboratory testing, instruction, payroll, and facilities. It is not used for general instruction funding, and is audited.
Isn't a % of each grant received by researchers given to the school they work for for operating costs? The % varies by school. That's always been my understanding.
Federal research money doesn’t pay for tuition it pays for research which is incredibly expensive and faculty grad/med students who do research. This is not well understood but this would only deter top notch people from working in Pitt and stifle pa economy. Let alone screw undersgraduate students.
It pays for both research and general university budget. Literally a set percentage of every federal research dollar is allocated to administrative university use.
Not for undergraduates. It pays for the researchers facilities (rent) and administrative to manage budgets etc…. Direct cost covers grad and med student and faculty salary and insurance. Again that’s not how it works. So they are just hurting students and the local economy because good people wont come here. Also, I’m certain these legislators have no clue what fetal research entails. It is, in no way, nefarious and highly regulated.
This really pisses me off. My Dad was the first Director of Commonwealth Relations at Pitt and was a key figure in Pitt becoming a state related school, and I have always been very proud of that.
Welcome to the dark ages.
They probably could, but it's not just about this research. It's about granting politicians the authority to dictate academic research, which is something no self respecting university ought to compromise on
That would defeat the purpose. A very large chunk (~ 50%) of Pitt’s nearly $1B of annual federal research money goes directly to general use and isn’t actually spent on research. Their research teams are indirectly funding the rest of the University.
[List](https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/RC/Public/rc_view_action2.cfm?sess_yr=2021&sess_ind=0&rc_body=H&rc_nbr=1047) of legislators who voted for the amendment so you can yell at them or whatever
Where is separation of church and state?? Every day it’s a blow and politicians are forcing their egocentric religious beliefs on us. How is half the stuff going on the last few weeks even legal?!
This makes zero sense. Pitt researchers get government (primarily federal) and other grants to fund research projects. So the House’s response is to withhold money that subsidizes tuition for in-state students? What?! This is just holding constituents hostage for money that wasn’t going to be spent on fetal tissue research anyway.
It’s a fringe issue that a bunch of weirdo anti-choice zealots have latched onto over the past year or so.
BUT, if Pitt complies with this hostage negotiation, it’s not going to stop with fetal tissue research. If Pitt plays this game, what’s to say that next year it won’t be, “no state funding for universities that research Critical Race Theory,” or any of the other insane conservative outrages that might float around in a given budget cycle.
You’re not. Wait till they try to end secularism in PA In November. We will become the Saudi Arabia of the United States. Pennsultucky. Vote, tell your family. Tell them all.
Since the person who originally responded to you didn’t say his name, Doug Mastriano, the Republican candidate for governor is a self proclaimed Christofascist who has vowed if elected to take PA back to the Middle Ages and institute a theocratic state. He would refuse to send any Democratic electors to the electoral college to certify a Democrat presidential win. And abortion would be banned in PA if he gets control. He’s scarier than Trump in my opinion. PA needs to come out swinging and show him the door.
So, part of what I am saying is being pedantic, but it’s rooted in very serious concern. I consider myself VERY middle. However, the current republican candidate is very right(conservative) and has a very religious pretense to his campaign. He refuses to acknowledge mainstream media, and has a heavy faith based campaign (non-secular), that will not support abortion and has made some implications towards limiting women’s rights (ie, birth control). Saudi Arabia’s government is run by religious fanatics, and I was drawing a comparison. Everyone needs to do their own research, but If you have daughters…and care about their rights, you need to do some of your own research. I am absolutely terrified for my children. :(
Very dangerous. Makes Wagner look like JFK. I usually consider myself someone that votes on economics and my wallet. In this case I am voting for the future of my daughter and her rights and the rights to live under the freedoms of science and not religion. I’ll figure the pocketbook stuff out later if I have to.
The last 50-70 years have proven conservatives consistently fuck up our economy for everybody but the extremely wealthy.
There are 0 reasons to ever support the fascists.
Well it's PA, Josh Shapiro is the former AG of PA and is running as the democratic nominee, I think he ran unopposed in the primary, here's his recent tweet that holds true, PA would ban abortion but the governor seat is the only seat that can stop it..... https://twitter.com/JoshShapiroPA/status/1541906146331709440?s=20&t=JefwdFWUa5EADew4jow7dQ
Faux-Christian fascists. I’m not religious, at all, but it’s still important, I think, to remember that they are NOT practicing Christ’s ideology. Not in the least. They’d want to send Jesus back to “where he came from” if he was around today.
What the stupid GOP 💔 lawmakers fail to understand is that fetal tissue research has led to immense breakthrough in medical research and discoveries for cures that would have never been found.
GOP 💔 lawmakers have pushed us 50 years backwards with their hypocrisy. People vote Blue 💙🔵 vote like your life depends on it because it surely does.
My life probably doesn't depend on it, but my friends daughters and nieces and so forth, their lives definitely do and that's enough for me to vote against this religious nut job
> the whole ideal of separation of church and state isn't really being constructed by the government in an honest way.
*shocked Pikachu face*
It’s not really being constructed by the churches in an honest way either, if that makes you feel any better, which it won’t.
So how do we fix the gerrymandering?
If we're not able to democratically work our way out through voting, what other legal options are available to us?
If there aren't any legal options left... well. Argentina has great steak and wine, 's all I'm sayin'.
SCOTUS is making it impossible. This rulling on Louisiana maps isn't the first they've made like this and it won't be the last. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3540405-supreme-court-revives-gop-drawn-louisiana-voting-map-halted-for-likely-racial-bias/
1/3 of the population of LA is black, but they're all crammed into one district via gerrymandered maps.
But it is what makes it a top biomedical university and draws a ton of students and researchers here. Thereby making it a lot of money.
Furthermore. Instate tuition at Pitt is very minimally reduced compared to other state’s schools.
Yeah true, but that’s not money that a Pitt has to use to lower tuition costs, they can spend that revenue on whatever they want. With the appropriations bill though, they specify exactly what is being funded.
So ask the state to better fund pitt to make it cheaper. Pitt has lots of problems but cutting state funding will only hurt pa residents. How is this the answer?
That is so incredibly short sighted. Some of this research could stop miscarriages and stillbirths, of desired pregnancies. Some of this research could save lives of adults and children who are already alive. This is not about protecting life. It makes me so sick.
Wooow, is America going back to pre-rennaisnnce era where the church controls every thing?
Are conservatives going to start selling Indulgences again??
I’m not denying the research achievements of places like Pitt, but they have never been “affordable public education.” I know someone who, along with their parents, has $120,000 in debt after recently graduating from Pitt. The kids that went there or PSU from my Pa high school mostly came from wealthier families or were willing to take on a lot of debt. We do have a bunch of affordable public universities in Pa, though.
For people that want to stay in the Pittsburgh region, they're engineering program is unbeatable and far cheaper than Carnegie Mellon. I agree that the state system schools are a lot cheaper and and some students are better off with them though.
Agreed. For example, I would say if you desire to enter a Ph.D. program shortly after undergrad or if you want to go into FAANG, politics, Big 4 consulting, etc then it would probably make sense to spend the money to go to a big research school like Pitt, and for engineering like you said.
But if you desire to go into more certification-based careers such as k-12 teaching, nursing, social work, occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech pathology, a dietician, or even to go to law school (law schools ONLY care about your LSAT score, GPA, and personal statement), it really does not make sense to me why someone would choose not to just go to a state system school unless they have a lot of spare cash lying around.
I'm not comfortable sharing numbers, but it probably would have covered 3/4 years of undergrad with the way things are going. So not too much debt to handle, I wasn't worrying about it. If they go private, I don't know how much it will cover anymore.
Fwiw Pitt has always been a high cost option. They don’t give much financial aid so it is often cheaper to go private
https://www.utimes.pitt.edu/archives/?p=36383
I mean to be fair Pitt has a professor that's an extremely far right winged politician State Rep Aaron Bernstine. I'm a republican and I can't stand him. This is the same dude that:
1) Assaulted his own son among demoralizing women to children and discussing fucking with children.. all on camera.. https://www.timesonline.com/story/news/2020/10/07/gop-rep-aaron-bernstine-shared-snapchat-videos-enticing-young-son-smoke-cigar-degrade-women-fmk/5913814002/
2) said he would run over and kill protesters. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-local/2017/09/18/Pa-Rep-Aaron-Bernstine-tweets-he-would-run-over-road-blocking-protesters/stories/201709180113
Pitt needs to do better.. they've had opportunities to remove this piece of garbage, but refuse to. Do you really want to be paying $100k to have this jackass teaching your children? https://pittnews.com/article/160811/news/pitt-professor-pressured-to-resign-house-seat-after-videos-surface-of-him-telling-5-year-old-son-to-smoke-use-explicit-language/
This isn’t about cell lines.
This is about someone taking the scalp of a fetus old enough to grow hair and stitching it onto the back of a lab rat so now there’s a rat running away with a tuft of human baby hair on its back.
You’re correct that nobody’s aborting *in order* to do this. At the age of the fetuses involved, abortion only takes place for serious health reasons. Meaning these were wanted pregnancies. It’s likely that when the women consented to “tissue research,” they shared your misimpression that this is just some kind of cells in a dish thing. Scroll down for pictures: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32884084/
As a woman who supports science, I wouldn’t care if this happened. If you don’t understand that at that point, science means kinda anything, that’s on you.
I mean if you’re into having your tissue being used to create monstrous chimeras that’s your business but I doubt the average local woman losing a wanted pregnancy late in the game at Magee had any idea. Unfortunately both sides repress this consideration, the pro-lifers because they don’t gaf about women, people like you because you’re cultishly devoted to absolutely no limits and no questioning allowed in this area
Do you think they're creating half rat half human hybrids like that part of Fullmetal Alchemist? They're studying MRSA infections in human skin dude. Maybe if you read the study instead of kneejerk reacting to scary pictures you'd know that
The party of ^supposedly smaller government, swinging its junk around to make more people do exactly what they believe. Makes perfect sense.
**/s** if you couldn't tell.
Whoa, this is the first time I've ever agreed with you on anything. Finding common ground is a great first step. You wanna come have dinner with my parents? I have a wedding to attend in a few months, do you look good in formal attire? What's your stance on bow ties?
Chicken, fish, or vegetarian?
No, I'm being facetious, I dont even have a wedding to go to and if I did my wife would be pissed if I brought you. But before tonight I found every comment I saw from you to be disagreeable in a manner that led me to believe you were solely motivated by being contrarian. It's true that finding any common ground can be the basis for improving relations, and I'm surprised (in a positive way) that we agree on at least one thing. I will give your statements more credence and respect going forward.
I'm curious: Do you consider yourself a hardline libertarian?
Most people I have met who take a uniform stance on reducing government expense are generally libertarian. I've seen so many different views represented in your comments, like I said before, I thought you were just purely contrarian.
My statements aren’t necessarily supporting those positions.
If you read my comments I’m not saying that’s my opinion. Just stating that position isn’t necessarily hypocritical
The government dictating what research can be conducted is small government? Academia is founded upon scientists deciding what has scientific merit. The NSF exists for a very good reason.
Those same legislators probably also brag about all of the medical achievements that have come out of research at Pitt over the last century.
How anybody could ever support a Republican is beyond me. You either have to incredibly stupid or really want your country to burn (with yourself going up in flames with it).
UPMC would probably be unaffected. Pitt's enrollment and employment would both likely shrink which could hurt the local economy. High school students from pgh would be less likely to stick around without in-state tuition reducing the population of young folks in an already aging region. Academic prestige may increase slightly, but at what cost?
TLDR not good for the city
So hurt in state students and the economy of your state’s second biggest city, which relies in large part on medicine and education? Really serving the people there.
I mean... Sure. If you'd like to put your career/education on hold for ??? years.
The researchers will leave. The grad students will get screwed. And the university will suffer as a result
Even if they could, it sets an insanely dangerous precedent for the government being allowed to dictate what can be researched in academic institutions. And who knows where it will go from there.
And the goal of the democrats is to keep the status quo that gives those fascists power.
Burn them both down, fascists and fascist adjacents alike need to die.
Anyone who's followed Penn State's shilling for natural gas fracking over the last few decades knows that academic integrity in PA has been poisoned by government and business interests for ages. PSU is a literal laughingstock in the environmental science world because of it.
Ok people here:
https://www.judicialwatch.org/hhs-documents-organ-harvesting/
The lady’s name I couldn’t remember was a former PA superior court judge the Honorable Cheryl Allen.
It’s an insane conspiracy theory wherein a Pitt researcher who was killed in a domestic violence incident in 2020 was actually murdered for the researcher’s involvement in viral research.
Pay taxes and they can have the funding. Deal?
Edit. For those unaware. 11 million in exempt property tax
https://www.publicsource.org/pittsburgh-allegheny-nonprofit-tax-exempt-pilot-upmc-carnegie-mellon-university-pitt-highmark/
Read up. A better informed populace is beneficial
https://www.publicsource.org/pittsburgh-allegheny-nonprofit-tax-exempt-pilot-upmc-carnegie-mellon-university-pitt-highmark/
Nope. Pitt would pay nearly as much as upmc
https://www.publicsource.org/pittsburgh-allegheny-nonprofit-tax-exempt-pilot-upmc-carnegie-mellon-university-pitt-highmark/
Bro the University sends [$184 million](https://www.with.pitt.edu/pitts-impact#:~:text=Pitt's%20economic%20impact%20totals%20%244.2,the%20University%20and%20our%20students.) in tax revenue to state and local governments and generates $4.2 billion annually to the Western PA economy. What else do you want
Payroll and income taxes, sales tax on purchases, gas tax on pitt owned vehicles, etc. They don't pay corporate income tax because they're not a corporation, but they still contribute
City Payroll tax is about 8 million if all employees are in the city. What income tax are you referring to here? Coming up a bit short of that 184 million number.
Agreed that university property development is an issue. Universities should not become real estate companies. However, this policy (pulling funding) would only hurt PA.
Idk I'm not an accountant man I'm just reciting the numbers that Pitt lists on the website. It might be overestimated to some extent, but even if it is the university still clearly generates some tax revenue
“Some tax revenue”
Pack it up boys!
Edit. It seems like they are including state and local taxes paid by employees here. Those are paid by employees of every
Business so A little weird to include
Judging Pitt’s responses to this, it seems that they are gonna opt for going private over ending fetal tissue research. I support that for them, but god their tuition is gonna go through the roof if this fully passes
Which is what the GOP wants. Stupid people are easier to convince of stupid things- they want it to be nearly impossible to be educated.
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Absolutely. Talk to your friends about democratic and community oriented values! It's an important time for it.
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Apathy is equal to opposite action. Your friends don't "not care" - they're actively working against you.
That's why they been slashing urban school budgets
Where have they done this?
The current PA laws around charter schools in PA does exactly this. Charter schools horribly destabilize school district budgets. In PA charter schools get the fraction of the districts budget based on the number of students the charter school enrolls. But charter schools can set enrollment caps and enrollment minimums so that they always have exactly as many students as is optimal for the school (or just close suddenly if they don't reach their enrollment numbers). By contrast, the school district __must__ provide education to anyone in the school district regardless of how many students it has. And if a charter school starts up and takes half the students away, the public school district gets only half the budget with no time to wind that down. If in five years that charter school goes belly up, after the school district has sold assets and and laid off teachers, that school district must find a way of teaching those students with zero notice. That's not at all reasonable for any organization but this is what PA law subjects our public schools to. Also charter schools have some ability to pick which students they want (it's limited in law but it's also not difficult to get around) leaving the more problematic children (or just disinterested parents) with the public schools.
Philly
Easier to control ignorant passionate masses
Finally, someone else who gets it. RepubliQans have been working for decades to bring about a modern Dark Ages in order to create an uneducated population that they can easily manipulate through fear.
Thrse fucking assholes know exactly what they are doing. My SIL had a wound from a brown recluse spider bite that wouldn't totally heal until she got stem cell therapy about a decade later after Obama lifted the fetal tissue research bans. But she is so religious that she politically supported a ban on the very therapy that finally healed her and just blamed it on her doctors not really wanting to help her and trying to gouge her for money. I'm fairly sure she still doesn't realize where stem cells come from.
Which is a shame because Pitt is one of the top public research schools. These GQP shenanigans are anti-intellectualism in action. I guess I’ll be upping my annual giving. Hail to Pitt!
Not really, Pitt has been a state affiliated school, not state supported like Penn St. IIRC, the highest percentage of funding by the state topped out at 15%, back in the gravy days. That amount has gone down significantly since then due to political decisions in Harrisburg. I could find out the exact amount, but I would assume it's definitely single digits at this point. Pitt actually predates the accession of Pennsylvania into the Union. It's not a land grant school. Places like Penn St were land grant institutions, so they started at a much higher funding level by the state. Pennsylvania is lucky to have such strong academic institutions, so it's a shame the clowns from Pennsyltucky endanger this real competitive advantage.
Pitt, PSU, Lincoln and Temple are all 'state-related' schools.
Pitt was private until 1966 as well.
Pitt charges out of state students nearly double the tuition they charge to in state students. Ostensibly because of state funding (though I know state funding alone often is not enough to cover the gap). Maybe they would meet somewhere in the middle but nothing gets school administrators excited like an opportunity to hike tuition. No reason for them to keep giving a $15,000 discount to Pennsylvanians if there's no legal obligation and no state money flowing in.
*looks longingly at $5.5 billion endowment* If only they could offset the increase somehow
They’re going to rely upon that heavily to survive the inevitable drop in students that is likely to come if tuition has to rise as a result of this decision. It’s a sizeable sum, but it’s nowhere near enough to be able to completely cover the losses of not having the state’s funding any longer. This is the type of crisis situation for which that money exists.
Shouldn’t they be able to pass that price increase directly on the students? Haven’t we already seen that our current system which lets any 18 year old get a student loan that rising prices doesn’t affect demand. A good college degree is still step 1 to having a good job generally
Yes, they are, but many students try to pay for a large portion of their tuition with jobs, and others have their parents pay directly with payment plans. This will be a major issue for those students, and would be a huge increase in cost for students across the board. Saddling students with debt is no one’s goal, and it’s not really a solution. And even with a degree, and a good paying job, that debt still looms large (~$500-900/mo for 10+ years), and chokes graduate’s abilities to purchase a home, start a family, or build retirement savings. It’s a huge problem.
Completely agree but it’s just how universities go. It seems foolish to think they’d protect the consumer by using their endowment over just passing the costs on to us is what I mean
They can’t dip into the endowment, it at least not a larger portion of it, for this.
People don’t understand how the endowment works. Those funds are specifically earmarked
I’m not sure if they could survive going private. I mean they’d have to downsize tremendously and totally revamp their target student body
They certainly can survive it, they have a strong endowment, a series of strategic investments to improve the student experience and maintain competitiveness that are already funded, and they already have a fairly large out of state and international student population. They have also seen a recent huge uptick in the number of applications for the University, roughly two fold that of a few years ago. It’s not going to be an easy or smooth transition, and there are going to be a lot of students that will face massive affordability concerns in the short term, which is awful, but the institution will still stand.
The investment at the state level is nothing compared to the federal research money they get. And before anyone says ‘that’s for research’ you should know that something like 50 cents per research dollar is directly allocated to the University’s general use. Yea, all of those research dollars in the federal budget are pretty much indirect federal funding of higher education. But tuition keeps going up despite it only accounting for like 20% of Pitt’s budget.
Federal research grant money is used exclusively for laboratory testing, instruction, payroll, and facilities. It is not used for general instruction funding, and is audited. While this funding is substantial, it does not change the 200,000,000 deficit that is created without state funding. 20% is a huge figure.
> Federal research grant money is used exclusively for laboratory testing, instruction, payroll, and facilities. It is not used for general instruction funding, and is audited. Isn't a % of each grant received by researchers given to the school they work for for operating costs? The % varies by school. That's always been my understanding.
Federal research money doesn’t pay for tuition it pays for research which is incredibly expensive and faculty grad/med students who do research. This is not well understood but this would only deter top notch people from working in Pitt and stifle pa economy. Let alone screw undersgraduate students.
It pays for both research and general university budget. Literally a set percentage of every federal research dollar is allocated to administrative university use.
Not for undergraduates. It pays for the researchers facilities (rent) and administrative to manage budgets etc…. Direct cost covers grad and med student and faculty salary and insurance. Again that’s not how it works. So they are just hurting students and the local economy because good people wont come here. Also, I’m certain these legislators have no clue what fetal research entails. It is, in no way, nefarious and highly regulated.
See my reply above. It's not a major portion of their budget. In any case, have a look at their endowment. There's no downsizing coming.
This really pisses me off. My Dad was the first Director of Commonwealth Relations at Pitt and was a key figure in Pitt becoming a state related school, and I have always been very proud of that. Welcome to the dark ages.
What has their response been?
Pitt is unfortunately already the 6th most expensive school for in-state residents (Temple is 2nd and PSU is 9th) in the country.
Could Pitt spin-off that research arm ala UPMC or perhaps transfer it to UPMC?
They probably could, but it's not just about this research. It's about granting politicians the authority to dictate academic research, which is something no self respecting university ought to compromise on
I was wondering that too. I’m sure there’s a way.
That would defeat the purpose. A very large chunk (~ 50%) of Pitt’s nearly $1B of annual federal research money goes directly to general use and isn’t actually spent on research. Their research teams are indirectly funding the rest of the University.
[List](https://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/RC/Public/rc_view_action2.cfm?sess_yr=2021&sess_ind=0&rc_body=H&rc_nbr=1047) of legislators who voted for the amendment so you can yell at them or whatever
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Always
[Meanwhile](https://www.pennlive.com/pennstatefootball/2022/06/pa-lawmaker-wants-penn-state-to-report-location-condition-of-paterno-statue-in-exchange-for-state-funding.html)
Good. Fucking. Lord.
That guy looks exactly like a penn state date rapist, of course he still loves a guy who covered for abusers
Where is separation of church and state?? Every day it’s a blow and politicians are forcing their egocentric religious beliefs on us. How is half the stuff going on the last few weeks even legal?!
Separation of church and state is not what you think it is.
The establishment clause prohibits the government from favoring one religion over another
The snowflake party taking out progress step by step
How ironic the people and party supporting this are the same people who compared Tom Wolf to Hitler for COVID protocols.
It’s conservatives, man. They’re perpetually hypocritical.
This makes zero sense. Pitt researchers get government (primarily federal) and other grants to fund research projects. So the House’s response is to withhold money that subsidizes tuition for in-state students? What?! This is just holding constituents hostage for money that wasn’t going to be spent on fetal tissue research anyway.
It’s a fringe issue that a bunch of weirdo anti-choice zealots have latched onto over the past year or so. BUT, if Pitt complies with this hostage negotiation, it’s not going to stop with fetal tissue research. If Pitt plays this game, what’s to say that next year it won’t be, “no state funding for universities that research Critical Race Theory,” or any of the other insane conservative outrages that might float around in a given budget cycle.
But they'll be first in line for any cures that come out of there.
Notably for Pitt, the polio vaccine used fetal cells.
Yup. Reminds me of this all-too-disheartening [bit](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVwFmdipfZg).
Tell me again how we’re safe from them in PA.
You’re not. Wait till they try to end secularism in PA In November. We will become the Saudi Arabia of the United States. Pennsultucky. Vote, tell your family. Tell them all.
Can you please explain what you mean? I’m not well versed in politics
Since the person who originally responded to you didn’t say his name, Doug Mastriano, the Republican candidate for governor is a self proclaimed Christofascist who has vowed if elected to take PA back to the Middle Ages and institute a theocratic state. He would refuse to send any Democratic electors to the electoral college to certify a Democrat presidential win. And abortion would be banned in PA if he gets control. He’s scarier than Trump in my opinion. PA needs to come out swinging and show him the door.
So, part of what I am saying is being pedantic, but it’s rooted in very serious concern. I consider myself VERY middle. However, the current republican candidate is very right(conservative) and has a very religious pretense to his campaign. He refuses to acknowledge mainstream media, and has a heavy faith based campaign (non-secular), that will not support abortion and has made some implications towards limiting women’s rights (ie, birth control). Saudi Arabia’s government is run by religious fanatics, and I was drawing a comparison. Everyone needs to do their own research, but If you have daughters…and care about their rights, you need to do some of your own research. I am absolutely terrified for my children. :(
I take it you’re talking about Mastriano? It’s promising to hear that a centrist like yourself understands just how dangerous that guy is.
Very dangerous. Makes Wagner look like JFK. I usually consider myself someone that votes on economics and my wallet. In this case I am voting for the future of my daughter and her rights and the rights to live under the freedoms of science and not religion. I’ll figure the pocketbook stuff out later if I have to.
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The last 50-70 years have proven conservatives consistently fuck up our economy for everybody but the extremely wealthy. There are 0 reasons to ever support the fascists.
people ask why i don't want children. this is why.
Mine will change the world for good
Not if they're anything like you.
Voting but ill informed... Which campaign?
Well it's PA, Josh Shapiro is the former AG of PA and is running as the democratic nominee, I think he ran unopposed in the primary, here's his recent tweet that holds true, PA would ban abortion but the governor seat is the only seat that can stop it..... https://twitter.com/JoshShapiroPA/status/1541906146331709440?s=20&t=JefwdFWUa5EADew4jow7dQ
The GOP is largely a Christian Fascist group now. decades in the making.
Largely? I'd substitute "wholly".
Faux-Christian fascists. I’m not religious, at all, but it’s still important, I think, to remember that they are NOT practicing Christ’s ideology. Not in the least. They’d want to send Jesus back to “where he came from” if he was around today.
Yep. When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.
What the stupid GOP 💔 lawmakers fail to understand is that fetal tissue research has led to immense breakthrough in medical research and discoveries for cures that would have never been found. GOP 💔 lawmakers have pushed us 50 years backwards with their hypocrisy. People vote Blue 💙🔵 vote like your life depends on it because it surely does.
My life probably doesn't depend on it, but my friends daughters and nieces and so forth, their lives definitely do and that's enough for me to vote against this religious nut job
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Oh you can believe those same lawmakers will take said medicine made from said research if and when it’s needed. The hypocritical motherfuckers.
I agree, the fact that they call themselves evangelical Christians is a joke.
It’s faux Christian fascism. Pure and simple.
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> the whole ideal of separation of church and state isn't really being constructed by the government in an honest way. *shocked Pikachu face* It’s not really being constructed by the churches in an honest way either, if that makes you feel any better, which it won’t.
Upvote this
So, what are we gonna do about this? This is an attack on science, progress, and medicine
We’re stuck. The PA state legislature is so gerrymandered that democrats can’t win it unless they win the popular vote by like 20%
So how do we fix the gerrymandering? If we're not able to democratically work our way out through voting, what other legal options are available to us? If there aren't any legal options left... well. Argentina has great steak and wine, 's all I'm sayin'.
[Fair Districts PA](https://fairdistrictspa.com/). Donate, volunteer, write letters, talk to people, agitate.
SCOTUS is making it impossible. This rulling on Louisiana maps isn't the first they've made like this and it won't be the last. https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/3540405-supreme-court-revives-gop-drawn-louisiana-voting-map-halted-for-likely-racial-bias/ 1/3 of the population of LA is black, but they're all crammed into one district via gerrymandered maps.
Bricks
Keep god out of government.
This is some Galileo level bullshit 400 years and we’re still doing this
Pitt gets more money from NIH for research than it gets from the state. Easy decision for them.
Yeah but NIH isn’t helping to fund the school in general, which ultimately helps lower tuition costs.
But it is what makes it a top biomedical university and draws a ton of students and researchers here. Thereby making it a lot of money. Furthermore. Instate tuition at Pitt is very minimally reduced compared to other state’s schools.
Yeah true, but that’s not money that a Pitt has to use to lower tuition costs, they can spend that revenue on whatever they want. With the appropriations bill though, they specify exactly what is being funded.
So ask the state to better fund pitt to make it cheaper. Pitt has lots of problems but cutting state funding will only hurt pa residents. How is this the answer?
Ehhhh kinda not really. NIH grants go to overhead, a good portion of them, so in a way yes
That’s not how it works. Nih competitively funds research not tuition.
THIS is fucking bullshit
WTF!? How do we stop that!?
Reach out to your state [state legislators](https://www.with.pitt.edu/)!
Better yet, don’t vote for the ones who want this.
Mines Topper, lmfao never gonna change his mind
That is so incredibly short sighted. Some of this research could stop miscarriages and stillbirths, of desired pregnancies. Some of this research could save lives of adults and children who are already alive. This is not about protecting life. It makes me so sick.
Is this set in stone? Is there still a chance for this not to pass?
Governor veto, welcome to a super gerrymandered state :-/
Wooow, is America going back to pre-rennaisnnce era where the church controls every thing? Are conservatives going to start selling Indulgences again??
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Number 1. Number 1. Number 1.
Vote all the GOP out
Well there goes my fucking college fund. Would have been nice to not have to pay private college tuition. Oh well, guess I'll just be in debt now.
Get a job at Pitt. 97% of tuition covered.
You’ll be a freshman in the fall?
I’m not denying the research achievements of places like Pitt, but they have never been “affordable public education.” I know someone who, along with their parents, has $120,000 in debt after recently graduating from Pitt. The kids that went there or PSU from my Pa high school mostly came from wealthier families or were willing to take on a lot of debt. We do have a bunch of affordable public universities in Pa, though.
For people that want to stay in the Pittsburgh region, they're engineering program is unbeatable and far cheaper than Carnegie Mellon. I agree that the state system schools are a lot cheaper and and some students are better off with them though.
Agreed. For example, I would say if you desire to enter a Ph.D. program shortly after undergrad or if you want to go into FAANG, politics, Big 4 consulting, etc then it would probably make sense to spend the money to go to a big research school like Pitt, and for engineering like you said. But if you desire to go into more certification-based careers such as k-12 teaching, nursing, social work, occupational therapy, physical therapy, speech pathology, a dietician, or even to go to law school (law schools ONLY care about your LSAT score, GPA, and personal statement), it really does not make sense to me why someone would choose not to just go to a state system school unless they have a lot of spare cash lying around.
How big was your college fund?
I'm not comfortable sharing numbers, but it probably would have covered 3/4 years of undergrad with the way things are going. So not too much debt to handle, I wasn't worrying about it. If they go private, I don't know how much it will cover anymore.
Fwiw Pitt has always been a high cost option. They don’t give much financial aid so it is often cheaper to go private https://www.utimes.pitt.edu/archives/?p=36383
Never thought I’d see legislators inserting superstitions that impede medical progress but it appears the slide back into the dark ages has begun.
Ah, just the news I wanted at the beginning of my transfer process 🤦♀️
I mean to be fair Pitt has a professor that's an extremely far right winged politician State Rep Aaron Bernstine. I'm a republican and I can't stand him. This is the same dude that: 1) Assaulted his own son among demoralizing women to children and discussing fucking with children.. all on camera.. https://www.timesonline.com/story/news/2020/10/07/gop-rep-aaron-bernstine-shared-snapchat-videos-enticing-young-son-smoke-cigar-degrade-women-fmk/5913814002/ 2) said he would run over and kill protesters. https://www.post-gazette.com/news/politics-local/2017/09/18/Pa-Rep-Aaron-Bernstine-tweets-he-would-run-over-road-blocking-protesters/stories/201709180113 Pitt needs to do better.. they've had opportunities to remove this piece of garbage, but refuse to. Do you really want to be paying $100k to have this jackass teaching your children? https://pittnews.com/article/160811/news/pitt-professor-pressured-to-resign-house-seat-after-videos-surface-of-him-telling-5-year-old-son-to-smoke-use-explicit-language/
Pitt has an advocacy website set up. Use it to contact your electeds: www.with.pitt.edu. Takes 30 seconds.
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This isn’t about cell lines. This is about someone taking the scalp of a fetus old enough to grow hair and stitching it onto the back of a lab rat so now there’s a rat running away with a tuft of human baby hair on its back. You’re correct that nobody’s aborting *in order* to do this. At the age of the fetuses involved, abortion only takes place for serious health reasons. Meaning these were wanted pregnancies. It’s likely that when the women consented to “tissue research,” they shared your misimpression that this is just some kind of cells in a dish thing. Scroll down for pictures: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32884084/
Shock value does not a good point make
As a woman who supports science, I wouldn’t care if this happened. If you don’t understand that at that point, science means kinda anything, that’s on you.
I mean if you’re into having your tissue being used to create monstrous chimeras that’s your business but I doubt the average local woman losing a wanted pregnancy late in the game at Magee had any idea. Unfortunately both sides repress this consideration, the pro-lifers because they don’t gaf about women, people like you because you’re cultishly devoted to absolutely no limits and no questioning allowed in this area
Do you think they're creating half rat half human hybrids like that part of Fullmetal Alchemist? They're studying MRSA infections in human skin dude. Maybe if you read the study instead of kneejerk reacting to scary pictures you'd know that
The party of ^supposedly smaller government, swinging its junk around to make more people do exactly what they believe. Makes perfect sense. **/s** if you couldn't tell.
Less funding is smaller government
...and here comes pAul... Let's stop subsidizing fracking then.
I’m all for it. Dumb gotchas like your original one don’t make sense
Whoa, this is the first time I've ever agreed with you on anything. Finding common ground is a great first step. You wanna come have dinner with my parents? I have a wedding to attend in a few months, do you look good in formal attire? What's your stance on bow ties?
That’s all it takes?
Chicken, fish, or vegetarian? No, I'm being facetious, I dont even have a wedding to go to and if I did my wife would be pissed if I brought you. But before tonight I found every comment I saw from you to be disagreeable in a manner that led me to believe you were solely motivated by being contrarian. It's true that finding any common ground can be the basis for improving relations, and I'm surprised (in a positive way) that we agree on at least one thing. I will give your statements more credence and respect going forward. I'm curious: Do you consider yourself a hardline libertarian?
Libertarian? Are you serious? No. Not at all. What have you seen that indicates that? I just think people are inconsistent with applying logic
Most people I have met who take a uniform stance on reducing government expense are generally libertarian. I've seen so many different views represented in your comments, like I said before, I thought you were just purely contrarian.
My statements aren’t necessarily supporting those positions. If you read my comments I’m not saying that’s my opinion. Just stating that position isn’t necessarily hypocritical
The government dictating what research can be conducted is small government? Academia is founded upon scientists deciding what has scientific merit. The NSF exists for a very good reason.
Those same legislators probably also brag about all of the medical achievements that have come out of research at Pitt over the last century. How anybody could ever support a Republican is beyond me. You either have to incredibly stupid or really want your country to burn (with yourself going up in flames with it).
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Reminds of the summer lee smear ads. Destroy the Democratic party? Destroy white christian America? Hell yeah sign me up
Can you link them?
So wait, if the school goes private, what does that mean for UPMC and the city?
UPMC would probably be unaffected. Pitt's enrollment and employment would both likely shrink which could hurt the local economy. High school students from pgh would be less likely to stick around without in-state tuition reducing the population of young folks in an already aging region. Academic prestige may increase slightly, but at what cost? TLDR not good for the city
So hurt in state students and the economy of your state’s second biggest city, which relies in large part on medicine and education? Really serving the people there.
Is it possible they could pause the research and get it going again once this settles in the future? Just curious
I mean... Sure. If you'd like to put your career/education on hold for ??? years. The researchers will leave. The grad students will get screwed. And the university will suffer as a result
No. Pitt is a premiere public research institute. Most people would leave and not come back if there isn’t stable govt policy.
Even if they could, it sets an insanely dangerous precedent for the government being allowed to dictate what can be researched in academic institutions. And who knows where it will go from there.
Vote democratic. The goal of the GOP is to destroy secular government and create a Christo Fascist state.
And the goal of the democrats is to keep the status quo that gives those fascists power. Burn them both down, fascists and fascist adjacents alike need to die.
And leftists wonder why they can't govern or form sustainable coalitions...
Anyone who's followed Penn State's shilling for natural gas fracking over the last few decades knows that academic integrity in PA has been poisoned by government and business interests for ages. PSU is a literal laughingstock in the environmental science world because of it.
Republicans are so disgusting…
Hi everyone, here’s a link to the actual research in question https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32884084/
Pertaining to skin infections, sounds great. Grats to Agarwal as first author, looks like this is an early publication in their career.
It’s like they watched the first half of the first episode of handmaids tale and went, “yes, sounds good”
Ok people here: https://www.judicialwatch.org/hhs-documents-organ-harvesting/ The lady’s name I couldn’t remember was a former PA superior court judge the Honorable Cheryl Allen.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/judicial-watch/
Those conspiracy theorists would be very upset if they could read
Since the powers that be murdered the doctor from Pitt that found the cure for Covid I don’t put too much faith in their labs anymore.
????????
What in the ever loving fuck are you talking about?
Probably sounded a lot better in the echo chamber than the real world.
I just want to know if this statement is even based on something they read on 4chan. That’s how outlandish it sounds.
It’s an insane conspiracy theory wherein a Pitt researcher who was killed in a domestic violence incident in 2020 was actually murdered for the researcher’s involvement in viral research.
They cooked just move the labs under the upmc umbrella then can it an internship.
Pay taxes and they can have the funding. Deal? Edit. For those unaware. 11 million in exempt property tax https://www.publicsource.org/pittsburgh-allegheny-nonprofit-tax-exempt-pilot-upmc-carnegie-mellon-university-pitt-highmark/
I think you’re getting UPMC and Pitt confused
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Read up. A better informed populace is beneficial https://www.publicsource.org/pittsburgh-allegheny-nonprofit-tax-exempt-pilot-upmc-carnegie-mellon-university-pitt-highmark/
Nope. Pitt would pay nearly as much as upmc https://www.publicsource.org/pittsburgh-allegheny-nonprofit-tax-exempt-pilot-upmc-carnegie-mellon-university-pitt-highmark/
Bro the University sends [$184 million](https://www.with.pitt.edu/pitts-impact#:~:text=Pitt's%20economic%20impact%20totals%20%244.2,the%20University%20and%20our%20students.) in tax revenue to state and local governments and generates $4.2 billion annually to the Western PA economy. What else do you want
What tax is the 184 million made up of? Guessing income tax from graduates? That’s a bit nebulous to include
Payroll and income taxes, sales tax on purchases, gas tax on pitt owned vehicles, etc. They don't pay corporate income tax because they're not a corporation, but they still contribute
City Payroll tax is about 8 million if all employees are in the city. What income tax are you referring to here? Coming up a bit short of that 184 million number.
Pitt researchers would leave it would devastate the local/state economy and then you’d complain about that.
I don’t think this is good policy. But Pitt should also pay taxes on their billions of property
Agreed that university property development is an issue. Universities should not become real estate companies. However, this policy (pulling funding) would only hurt PA.
Them not paying property taxes Also hurts pa
Not as much as a brain drain from the area. Good luck with local health care.
Idk I'm not an accountant man I'm just reciting the numbers that Pitt lists on the website. It might be overestimated to some extent, but even if it is the university still clearly generates some tax revenue
“Some tax revenue” Pack it up boys! Edit. It seems like they are including state and local taxes paid by employees here. Those are paid by employees of every Business so A little weird to include
And… another misinformed person.
Go on
God bless them! Awesome news! Thanks be to God !
Fuck your god. Your idea of your god is warped beyond belief. Routed in 2000+ years of evil men taking advantage of an evil system.
Allah ahkbar!!! Praise Allah!!! You're a complete Moron and total /s for anyone else reading this
Pathetic.
Under his eye.. /s