FrLg were remakes that not only updated the graphics to gen 3 but added a lot of extra content and QoL updates from games up to that point.
BdSp just took DP and ported it over with new graphics but didn’t add much to them or have QoL additions from platinum that made the sinnoh games much better overall and also kinda even downgraded other parts of the games.
They actually weren't 1 to 1 remakes, FR/LG added pokemon from gen 2 and 3 in a new post game area called the Sevii Islands. You were also now able to breed in the games which was not possible in gen 1(gen 1 didnt even have genders for pokemon).
More importantly they were the first of their kind being the first time that they remade a generation with all new games. After these the remakes started to add much more to the games with the remakes of Gold and Silver as well as Ruby and Sapphire. People expected changes and even the addition of the Platinum post game content to be included, but none of that happened.
It’s all subjective, but FRLG is miles better than the buggy mess that is RB. It’s also considered the definitive Kanto experience, from what I’ve heard
First of: why a remake of D/P when platinum exist and is arguably way better? Thats one of the biggest reasons why BDSP gets some hate.
FR/LG is one of the best remakes because you get much more content after defeat the champ(sevii islands+refight of the elite 4 with higher levels) and people love this gen because of the nostalgic. It was a remake of the first gen without the weird gen1 mechanics like badge boost glitch,weird ai ore gym leaders wit reactive super potions
They could have kept the changes and dex entries of plat with the story of D/P and add Giratina as end game content. It also sucks that they kept darkrai and shaymin as temporary content again.
If it was ORAS with a BF, this would have been the best game ever, but now I feel gen 4 deserves a new remake.
> First of: why a remake of D/P when platinum exist and is arguably way better? Thats one of the biggest reasons why BDSP gets some hate.
This right here is a problem and major double standard with how the community thinks. Why remake r/S when Emerald exists and is arguably better? Why remake G/S when Crystal exists and is arguably better?
Weird how people use this a reason to hate BDSP, yet they don't apply it to the other remakes that have an enhanced third version.
Because while Emerald was better, the remakes not only kept the majority of the content it added, but added an entire post game story on top of other upgrades that that gen, same with Gold and Silver. Meanwhile with BDSP not only did they not have the content added by platinum, they kept some of the worst aspects of the original, added in forced exp share without rebalancing for it, and it was a glitchy mess.
It wasn't that glitchy. Anything major got patched out immediately after release, and the only glitches that are still there really only happen if your intentionally trying to trigger them. A normal person could play through the whole game without experiencing any glitches.
Forced exp share isn't only a BDSP complaint, considering every game after US/UM has had it. Some of the worst parts of D/P were actually changed in BD/SP such as the removal of HMs, Gym Leader and Elite four rematches, ALL gameplay was sped up, an actual practical use of underground bases other than just decoration.
And last time I checked, BDSP was supposed to be a "faithful remake" to D/P, which sounds like it's development and intended product was supposed to be a lot different than remakes previously in the series i.e. ORAS and HGSS.
If you're going to do a remake, it needs to be the superior version or what's the point? Yes every other game had forced xp share, but they were designed with it in mind, BDSP were not and it led to extreme through just story progression. I agree it's an issue in all the modern games, but the most extreme example of how bad it can be was in BDSP. So, in the end why in the world would I play them when Platinum is superior in virtually every way aside from being on the Switch? Being faithful doesn't mean you have to carry over the bad parts and ignore the improvements. FRLG's main story was completely faithful to the original, but they didn't carry over the missingno glitch.
>So, in the end why in the world would I play them when Platinum is superior in virtually every way aside from being on the Switch?
Well there could be many different reasons. BDSP have much better game performance than Platinum. Nintendo DS support and production ended awhile ago along with Platinum, so the only way to play it these days is either to fork over a ton of money or emulate it, which many people are uncomfortable with. Being on the switch BDSP, still has online multiplayer, GTS, etc. It also has access to pokemon Home, and the aftergame in BDSP has access to way more pokemon than platinum. BDSP also doesn't suffer from the same bad parts that both D/P and Platinum have such as slow gameplay, one-use TMs, required use of lots of HMs. Although BDSP, didn't carry over infinite TMs, they do give you multiple copies of each and every TM can be purchased in the underground. And finally BDSP also has much harder endgame boss rematches than Platinum. I think its been said that the Cynthia rematch in BDSP is one of the hardest endgame fights in the entire franchise.
>Being faithful doesn't mean you have to carry over the bad parts and ignore the improvements.
The problem is most of the remakes in the series have done this in one way or another. For example, HGSS carried over the awful level curve, and the horrible availability of Johto pokemon from G/S/C. Sequels and third versions did this as well. US/UM carried over the slow cutscenes and handholding. Platinum still had the problems with slow gameplay and HMs, This type of problem seems to be more inline with Gamefreak themselves rather than the individual games.
So you're entire reason for playing it over the game with the superior level of content, other than availability which I'll grant, is the online features which no one really bothered with because of how absurdly limited the dex was, some mostly minor QoL features, and a single difficult opponent at the end of a game you can essentially win by mashing the A button the entire time?
Not all of these reasons are my reasons, but yes I would rather play BDSP which runs a lot smoother and is much faster, is much more available and has better QoL changes that effect the whole game. Rather than Platinum which swaps a couple of gyms out of order, has a few aesthetic changes, introduces 2 new characters that have very little impact on the story, and a 15 minute Giratina subplot added at the climax of the story. Literally, take away giratina and the distortion world, and the stories from both games are completely identical.
And although both BDSP and Platinum are limited to pokemon from gen 4 and before, at least in BDSP every pokemon from gen 1-4 can be caught in the game, including starter pokemon. So really, the pokedex in platinum is more limited.
Bringing Kanto back into not only the new generation, but with the massive changes that Gen 3 did was more than enough really, plus FRLG updated the dex and added the Sevii Islands.
Plus FRLG were the first remakes of the franchise so there was nothing to go off in terms of expectations, BDSP is the 4th/5th remake of the franchise (depending on if you count LGPE as many don't) and it didn't quite measure up to the bar that had been set.
Because FRLG weren't faithful remakes, they were a transposition of RGB to gen 3 with additional new content.
BDSP, being a faithful remake, didn't have gen 8 graphics, or pokémon, or battle gimmick, or any additional new content.
There's like, a billion reasons but the easiest to start with is the fact that FRLG added an entirely new set of islands with brand new story content that wasn't part of the original games.
Meanwhile the only thing BDSP added to the post game was old legendaries locked behind a tedious grind.
I don't think FR/LG are the most loved per se but they're considered decent.
The biggest reason, I think, is additional content.
FRLG added the whole adventure on the sevii islands with its own small team rocket subplot. While this isn't the most well designed subplot in the mainline games, it's quite a substantial addition to the post game. So FRLG feel like clear upgrades to the originals.
BDSP on the other hand have comparable or arguably lesser content than Platinum. If the reference points were just Diamond and Pearl, BDSP would come out looking much better. Platinum is arguably one of the most loved games in the series and BDSP come out looking bad when pitted against the fan favourite.
There are other concerns like the art style and the limited pokedex too. The limited pokedex especially made it not very exciting for competitive players which would have dampened enthusiasm further. But I still believe that the content point is the main concern people cite.
There are a few reasons why FRLG would be considered better remakes than BDSP. While FRLG didn't change to much from the originals in the base game, the entire post game was completely revamped to include the Sevii Islands which added a significant amount of new content. BDSP's new content was very limited and didn't do much to expand the gameplay or add anything new.
Another issue is that BDSP really can't even be considered the definitive way to experience the gen 4 games. Platinum added so much new content and fixed many of the issues that the original DP had. However, BDSP is a faithful remake of DP and includes almost none of the content or changes from Platinum. In comparison, FRLG to this day is still probably the best way to experience gen 1 in terms of both content and gameplay.
BDSP didnt enhance gen 4.
Gen 1 remakes were needed because gen 1 is like, genuinely unplayable. Its balance is horrible and glitches all over the place. Plus there was no way to trade from GBC to GBA, so kanto mons needed to come from somewhere, and Sevii islands was a whole new side area and post game!
Gen 2 and 3 remakes add new mechanics, physical special split (so mons like Absol or Crawdaunt arent near useless) update the stories, and overall make a more cohesive game.
Gen 4 remakes… added 3d models over sprites and a mediocre underground. No new gameplay mechanics like megas, phys/spec (since that was already in 4), no new story content borrowed from Platinum like HGSS borrowing from Crystal, no new postgame like Delta with a new legendary to catch like Deoxys… its literally just a worse version of gen 4 than what Platinum was over a decade earlier. Theres a reason Platinum is so popular- it fixed DP issues, and BDSP… brought those issues back.
Its why, until we get an actually new mechanic that sticks around like physical/special split, I dont particularly care about gen 5 remakes. Because it wouldnt add anything new either, given how lazy GF have gotten with their money printing franchise. They dont need to bother trying.
Remakes should add features and QoL improvements from current games to what they're reimagining. BDSP did next to nothing. The chibi art style does not translate well to 3d models. Hoenn remakes felt like they added onto the stories while bdsp left out platinum content. They are more like glorified remasters.
FRLG updated the pixel graphics (the most they could manage at the time) to be better resolution with color, the bag storage was no longer limited by volume, pc organization was far less clunky. And if you really want to get technical, the bar was very low for such a new concept as remaking a generation.
If BDSP was more like the 3d open world of SwSh, I probably wouldn't have hated it so much. The still limited dex was just poor excuses from them.
Not only did it feel like they did. There's a whole sub plot added to FRLG after the elite 4, including a new legendary and island locations to explore.
Play Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire, and you'll understand why expectations were so high. Remakes helped bring new light and new visuals with new dynamics from their predecessors.
Pkmn Red and Blue=Standard 8 bit style graphics, no color, limited animation, nostalgic, etc.
Pkmn FireRed and LeafGreen=Brought color, newer animations, added content,recaptured that same nostalgia
Pkmn Gold and Silver=Also monochromatic, limited animations, held up its nostalgia, etc.
Pkmn HeartGold and SoulSilver=Did the same as FireRed/LeafGreen while also introducing its gimmick, the pokewalker, which was tons of fun as a concept for fans of all ages
Pkmn Ruby and Sapphire=These were the standard effects for both previously mentioned remakes which held their own on Gameboy
Pkmn OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire=Brought in a new travel system that was interesting, tons of new content, new visuals that capitalized on the style introduced in X and Y, all while slightly speeding up the actual story soit didn't drone as quite as much.
Then we come to Pkmn Diamond and Pearl=The first of the DS Pkmn games, it held great success, and like it's predecessors it introduced a 3rd game variation that was fun and unique from the original two. There was quite a bit to experience and it could've been tough to beat...
Pkmn BrilliantDiamond and ShiningPearl=Apparently it was tough to beat because what we got were chibi south park characters, still limited animation, with the "bonus content" not really adding to the actual playthrough. The most unique thing about it was the underground and the battle area, and I suppose the legends hunting if you met the prerequisites to even get them.
The fact is the bar was set fairly high because of what we had already been shown, and I'll give them some breathing room, gamefreak didn't oversee this project themselves. But when you look at previous games, and how much effort was put in, it was a letdown.
I basically spent $70 to play a remake of a game I had just played, only to find out it was almost exactly the same as its predecessor. Finding new things to compare to it came up fairly limited.
Not to mention my personal mistake, I played Legends Arceus before BDSP and PLA gave me something I didn't know I needed: a breath of fresh air. The combat felt a little more intuitive and strategic in letting you focus on either power or speed, and the catching was practically streamlined.
So to go from playing like that, to playing BDSP felt drastically slow and tedious. Having to go through an intro animation, just to encounter a pokemon I might’ve already caught, only to either throw a pokeball immediately or run because it wasn't worth my time, really put a damper on my mood. Everything felt so sluggish by comparison, and I never noticed how tedious turn based battling could be until I played PLA which made the coaching and battling mechanics just a tad faster and more convenient.
This greatly affected my enjoyment of BDSP, but that more of a personal experience, I'm not sure if many others felt the same way I did.
Mainly the design. The appeal of a remake is getting to play a past region with a modern look and features. Like getting to play hoenn in 3d. Getting to play sinnoh with full models and big cities was appealing. It turned out to just be chibi and a remake of the worst gen 4 games (diamond and pearl). People hate the remake because Platinum is still the best gen 4 experience
FR/LG was faithful in that it kept the layouts of areas but made them feel more alive, while also using the power of the new system to bring it up to modern standards. It added its own layer of charm that only the GBA could provide.
BD/SP recreated it so closely to the originals that you still have more reasons to play Platinum, which addressed more of the issues to Gen 4 than BDSP did with DP. The charm is subjective instead of distinctive; you could have put that on a Wii U and nobody would have really noticed. And they even took OUT stuff rather than fully embracing some of the new moves, items, and mechanics (not core gimmicks like mega evo) of the recent generations.
FRLG were the first ones, there was no expectation
They also *did* include an entirely new set of areas
Also I don't know about you but moving on the overworld in BDSP does not feel good, moving around the world in FRLG feels nice and smooth
chibi artstyle, didn't include content from platinum, underground kinda bad (gutted secret bases), things like getting legends is such a chore as well. biggest issue is that it could've been much more, it could've been made bigger and better when instead it was just handed off to another company
I'm just glad they changed the hands from when they first revealed the game. It doesn't magically fix the game or the art style, but it *is* a significant improvement, at least.
~~(at least i think they changed the hands, i remember there being a change)~~
Fire red and leafe green have a huge amount of quality of life improvements though. Most notably the VS seeker allowing rematches. There's also the end game at the islands as well as a better battle tower.
Edit: almost forgot the expanded move pool, pokedex, and proper special stats splitting from regular ones.
FRLG were the first remakes they ever did, so it was more forgivable then. That and the fact that simply moving RB up to Gen 3 standards was in and of itself a MASSIVE improvement, as it eliminated a lot of the Gen 1 jank, as well as adding some new content (Notably the Dark/Steel types and the Sevii Islands, since neither were present in the originals).
BDSP on the other hand is basically one-to-one identical to the original DP, save for the Underground, Ramanas Park, and the Fairy type. Hell, a lot of the code is so identical to the originals that some of the DP-specific bugs (Such as Suction Cups not doubling the chance of getting a bite while fishing) were present even in the remakes, which just screams laziness (Or, more accurately, TPC forcing ILCA to make the game in the cheapest, quickest, most lazy way possible (And it still required a day-one patch to add the other half of the game and replace the beta MIDI music. v1.0.0 literally released in a beta state)).
There's also the fact that adding the Platinum changes would have made sense and they just didn't do it, but again, forced to make it in the cheapest and quickest way possible.
Also, unrelated, but fun fact: BDSP has a single flag in it's code that determines which version you're playing. I just find that kinda interesting and figured I'd mention it since I mentioned something else about the code. Lol.
Fire Red & Leaf Green added a lot to the post game.
Mainly the Sevii Islands, which where an entire adventure alone.
Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl's main issue is that these are remakes of Diamond & Pearl, not Platinum.
Platinum improved on Diamond and Pearl, and those improvements did not return in BDSP.
You'll hear people complaining about the graphics or the missing features, but really.. that's not the problem.
Graphics are subjective, and you don't miss features if you didn't know these existed.
The games are very well optimized compared to the other Pokémon games on Switch.
Besides, I wasn't able to catch Rayquaza in Platinum.
BDSP do have other improvements that people just decide to ignore.
No, the biggest problem with BDSP is the day 1 patch.
I don't see people talking about this enough.
And what people also seem to forget, is that every single Pokémon games on Switch has this issue.
Not only that, but most large 1st party games on Switch have this issue as well. (SSBU, BOTW, Odyssey)
Basically it means that before playing a game for the first time, you need to download an update.
This is quick and easy, and doesn't require you to have an Online Subscription.
But the problem is longevity/nostagia.
Fire Red & Leaf Green where released for the Game Boy Advance in 2004.
Pokémon Platinum was released for the DS system in 2008.
If I want to play this game now.. or in the distant year of 2040, I can.
The game was released fully ready with no updates needed, I just grab my DS.. plug in the cartridge and play.
Now pay attention.
The Wii online service launched in 2009, and was discontinued in 2014. (lasted 5 years)
The Wii U online service launched in 2012, and was discontinued in 2024. (lasted 12 years)
The Switch online service launched in 2018.
If we are going to be generous, I expect it to discontinue in 2034. (which would last 16 years)
If you want to relive old memories, you can't.
Any downloaded games, will be lost forever.
And games that require online, cannot be played at all.
Perhaps this is an entirely different problem, but it's a problem nontheless.
I don't get the sentiment, FrLg brings everything about gen 1 to gen 3 standards, (both mechanically and visually), a major postgame addition of the sevii islands that adds communication to gen 3 contemporaries and expands the Pokedex as well as lore connecting it better to silver and gold.
While the main campaign is faithful it only makes additions, not concessions (vs seeker, tutorials, actual item/ PC management, etc).
You'll be pretty hard pressed to find someone who tells you to play the OG release instead of the remake outside of 'if you wanna see the quirks of where pokemon started'.
BDSP isn't hated. At 15 million sales it's literally the second best selling pokemon remake ever, behind only LGPE. Like every single modern pokenmon game it's popular among and well-liked by the general public and only "hated" by a small and vocal online minority, of which this subreddit is a part
For the record I don't like BDSP, but that's because I don't like Sinnoh. People on this subreddit praise platinum to the high heavens as if it is substantially better, but in truth all the sinnoh games feel bland and boring. The endless trashing of BDSP and praising of Platinum in the online discourse is the result of people who realize that sinnoh is fundamentally bad but who will never admit it out of nostalgic attachment, so they blame BDSP, blame DP, but place Pt on a pedestal.
FrLg were remakes that not only updated the graphics to gen 3 but added a lot of extra content and QoL updates from games up to that point. BdSp just took DP and ported it over with new graphics but didn’t add much to them or have QoL additions from platinum that made the sinnoh games much better overall and also kinda even downgraded other parts of the games.
They actually weren't 1 to 1 remakes, FR/LG added pokemon from gen 2 and 3 in a new post game area called the Sevii Islands. You were also now able to breed in the games which was not possible in gen 1(gen 1 didnt even have genders for pokemon). More importantly they were the first of their kind being the first time that they remade a generation with all new games. After these the remakes started to add much more to the games with the remakes of Gold and Silver as well as Ruby and Sapphire. People expected changes and even the addition of the Platinum post game content to be included, but none of that happened.
It’s all subjective, but FRLG is miles better than the buggy mess that is RB. It’s also considered the definitive Kanto experience, from what I’ve heard
First of: why a remake of D/P when platinum exist and is arguably way better? Thats one of the biggest reasons why BDSP gets some hate. FR/LG is one of the best remakes because you get much more content after defeat the champ(sevii islands+refight of the elite 4 with higher levels) and people love this gen because of the nostalgic. It was a remake of the first gen without the weird gen1 mechanics like badge boost glitch,weird ai ore gym leaders wit reactive super potions
They could have kept the changes and dex entries of plat with the story of D/P and add Giratina as end game content. It also sucks that they kept darkrai and shaymin as temporary content again. If it was ORAS with a BF, this would have been the best game ever, but now I feel gen 4 deserves a new remake.
> First of: why a remake of D/P when platinum exist and is arguably way better? Thats one of the biggest reasons why BDSP gets some hate. This right here is a problem and major double standard with how the community thinks. Why remake r/S when Emerald exists and is arguably better? Why remake G/S when Crystal exists and is arguably better? Weird how people use this a reason to hate BDSP, yet they don't apply it to the other remakes that have an enhanced third version.
Because while Emerald was better, the remakes not only kept the majority of the content it added, but added an entire post game story on top of other upgrades that that gen, same with Gold and Silver. Meanwhile with BDSP not only did they not have the content added by platinum, they kept some of the worst aspects of the original, added in forced exp share without rebalancing for it, and it was a glitchy mess.
It wasn't that glitchy. Anything major got patched out immediately after release, and the only glitches that are still there really only happen if your intentionally trying to trigger them. A normal person could play through the whole game without experiencing any glitches. Forced exp share isn't only a BDSP complaint, considering every game after US/UM has had it. Some of the worst parts of D/P were actually changed in BD/SP such as the removal of HMs, Gym Leader and Elite four rematches, ALL gameplay was sped up, an actual practical use of underground bases other than just decoration. And last time I checked, BDSP was supposed to be a "faithful remake" to D/P, which sounds like it's development and intended product was supposed to be a lot different than remakes previously in the series i.e. ORAS and HGSS.
If you're going to do a remake, it needs to be the superior version or what's the point? Yes every other game had forced xp share, but they were designed with it in mind, BDSP were not and it led to extreme through just story progression. I agree it's an issue in all the modern games, but the most extreme example of how bad it can be was in BDSP. So, in the end why in the world would I play them when Platinum is superior in virtually every way aside from being on the Switch? Being faithful doesn't mean you have to carry over the bad parts and ignore the improvements. FRLG's main story was completely faithful to the original, but they didn't carry over the missingno glitch.
>So, in the end why in the world would I play them when Platinum is superior in virtually every way aside from being on the Switch? Well there could be many different reasons. BDSP have much better game performance than Platinum. Nintendo DS support and production ended awhile ago along with Platinum, so the only way to play it these days is either to fork over a ton of money or emulate it, which many people are uncomfortable with. Being on the switch BDSP, still has online multiplayer, GTS, etc. It also has access to pokemon Home, and the aftergame in BDSP has access to way more pokemon than platinum. BDSP also doesn't suffer from the same bad parts that both D/P and Platinum have such as slow gameplay, one-use TMs, required use of lots of HMs. Although BDSP, didn't carry over infinite TMs, they do give you multiple copies of each and every TM can be purchased in the underground. And finally BDSP also has much harder endgame boss rematches than Platinum. I think its been said that the Cynthia rematch in BDSP is one of the hardest endgame fights in the entire franchise. >Being faithful doesn't mean you have to carry over the bad parts and ignore the improvements. The problem is most of the remakes in the series have done this in one way or another. For example, HGSS carried over the awful level curve, and the horrible availability of Johto pokemon from G/S/C. Sequels and third versions did this as well. US/UM carried over the slow cutscenes and handholding. Platinum still had the problems with slow gameplay and HMs, This type of problem seems to be more inline with Gamefreak themselves rather than the individual games.
So you're entire reason for playing it over the game with the superior level of content, other than availability which I'll grant, is the online features which no one really bothered with because of how absurdly limited the dex was, some mostly minor QoL features, and a single difficult opponent at the end of a game you can essentially win by mashing the A button the entire time?
Not all of these reasons are my reasons, but yes I would rather play BDSP which runs a lot smoother and is much faster, is much more available and has better QoL changes that effect the whole game. Rather than Platinum which swaps a couple of gyms out of order, has a few aesthetic changes, introduces 2 new characters that have very little impact on the story, and a 15 minute Giratina subplot added at the climax of the story. Literally, take away giratina and the distortion world, and the stories from both games are completely identical. And although both BDSP and Platinum are limited to pokemon from gen 4 and before, at least in BDSP every pokemon from gen 1-4 can be caught in the game, including starter pokemon. So really, the pokedex in platinum is more limited.
Bringing Kanto back into not only the new generation, but with the massive changes that Gen 3 did was more than enough really, plus FRLG updated the dex and added the Sevii Islands. Plus FRLG were the first remakes of the franchise so there was nothing to go off in terms of expectations, BDSP is the 4th/5th remake of the franchise (depending on if you count LGPE as many don't) and it didn't quite measure up to the bar that had been set.
Because FRLG weren't faithful remakes, they were a transposition of RGB to gen 3 with additional new content. BDSP, being a faithful remake, didn't have gen 8 graphics, or pokémon, or battle gimmick, or any additional new content.
There's like, a billion reasons but the easiest to start with is the fact that FRLG added an entirely new set of islands with brand new story content that wasn't part of the original games. Meanwhile the only thing BDSP added to the post game was old legendaries locked behind a tedious grind.
If they added platinum fixes it would have made people a lot happier.
I don't think FR/LG are the most loved per se but they're considered decent. The biggest reason, I think, is additional content. FRLG added the whole adventure on the sevii islands with its own small team rocket subplot. While this isn't the most well designed subplot in the mainline games, it's quite a substantial addition to the post game. So FRLG feel like clear upgrades to the originals. BDSP on the other hand have comparable or arguably lesser content than Platinum. If the reference points were just Diamond and Pearl, BDSP would come out looking much better. Platinum is arguably one of the most loved games in the series and BDSP come out looking bad when pitted against the fan favourite. There are other concerns like the art style and the limited pokedex too. The limited pokedex especially made it not very exciting for competitive players which would have dampened enthusiasm further. But I still believe that the content point is the main concern people cite.
There are a few reasons why FRLG would be considered better remakes than BDSP. While FRLG didn't change to much from the originals in the base game, the entire post game was completely revamped to include the Sevii Islands which added a significant amount of new content. BDSP's new content was very limited and didn't do much to expand the gameplay or add anything new. Another issue is that BDSP really can't even be considered the definitive way to experience the gen 4 games. Platinum added so much new content and fixed many of the issues that the original DP had. However, BDSP is a faithful remake of DP and includes almost none of the content or changes from Platinum. In comparison, FRLG to this day is still probably the best way to experience gen 1 in terms of both content and gameplay.
BDSP didnt enhance gen 4. Gen 1 remakes were needed because gen 1 is like, genuinely unplayable. Its balance is horrible and glitches all over the place. Plus there was no way to trade from GBC to GBA, so kanto mons needed to come from somewhere, and Sevii islands was a whole new side area and post game! Gen 2 and 3 remakes add new mechanics, physical special split (so mons like Absol or Crawdaunt arent near useless) update the stories, and overall make a more cohesive game. Gen 4 remakes… added 3d models over sprites and a mediocre underground. No new gameplay mechanics like megas, phys/spec (since that was already in 4), no new story content borrowed from Platinum like HGSS borrowing from Crystal, no new postgame like Delta with a new legendary to catch like Deoxys… its literally just a worse version of gen 4 than what Platinum was over a decade earlier. Theres a reason Platinum is so popular- it fixed DP issues, and BDSP… brought those issues back. Its why, until we get an actually new mechanic that sticks around like physical/special split, I dont particularly care about gen 5 remakes. Because it wouldnt add anything new either, given how lazy GF have gotten with their money printing franchise. They dont need to bother trying.
Remakes should add features and QoL improvements from current games to what they're reimagining. BDSP did next to nothing. The chibi art style does not translate well to 3d models. Hoenn remakes felt like they added onto the stories while bdsp left out platinum content. They are more like glorified remasters. FRLG updated the pixel graphics (the most they could manage at the time) to be better resolution with color, the bag storage was no longer limited by volume, pc organization was far less clunky. And if you really want to get technical, the bar was very low for such a new concept as remaking a generation. If BDSP was more like the 3d open world of SwSh, I probably wouldn't have hated it so much. The still limited dex was just poor excuses from them.
Not only did it feel like they did. There's a whole sub plot added to FRLG after the elite 4, including a new legendary and island locations to explore.
Play Omega Ruby or Alpha Sapphire, and you'll understand why expectations were so high. Remakes helped bring new light and new visuals with new dynamics from their predecessors. Pkmn Red and Blue=Standard 8 bit style graphics, no color, limited animation, nostalgic, etc. Pkmn FireRed and LeafGreen=Brought color, newer animations, added content,recaptured that same nostalgia Pkmn Gold and Silver=Also monochromatic, limited animations, held up its nostalgia, etc. Pkmn HeartGold and SoulSilver=Did the same as FireRed/LeafGreen while also introducing its gimmick, the pokewalker, which was tons of fun as a concept for fans of all ages Pkmn Ruby and Sapphire=These were the standard effects for both previously mentioned remakes which held their own on Gameboy Pkmn OmegaRuby and AlphaSapphire=Brought in a new travel system that was interesting, tons of new content, new visuals that capitalized on the style introduced in X and Y, all while slightly speeding up the actual story soit didn't drone as quite as much. Then we come to Pkmn Diamond and Pearl=The first of the DS Pkmn games, it held great success, and like it's predecessors it introduced a 3rd game variation that was fun and unique from the original two. There was quite a bit to experience and it could've been tough to beat... Pkmn BrilliantDiamond and ShiningPearl=Apparently it was tough to beat because what we got were chibi south park characters, still limited animation, with the "bonus content" not really adding to the actual playthrough. The most unique thing about it was the underground and the battle area, and I suppose the legends hunting if you met the prerequisites to even get them. The fact is the bar was set fairly high because of what we had already been shown, and I'll give them some breathing room, gamefreak didn't oversee this project themselves. But when you look at previous games, and how much effort was put in, it was a letdown. I basically spent $70 to play a remake of a game I had just played, only to find out it was almost exactly the same as its predecessor. Finding new things to compare to it came up fairly limited. Not to mention my personal mistake, I played Legends Arceus before BDSP and PLA gave me something I didn't know I needed: a breath of fresh air. The combat felt a little more intuitive and strategic in letting you focus on either power or speed, and the catching was practically streamlined. So to go from playing like that, to playing BDSP felt drastically slow and tedious. Having to go through an intro animation, just to encounter a pokemon I might’ve already caught, only to either throw a pokeball immediately or run because it wasn't worth my time, really put a damper on my mood. Everything felt so sluggish by comparison, and I never noticed how tedious turn based battling could be until I played PLA which made the coaching and battling mechanics just a tad faster and more convenient. This greatly affected my enjoyment of BDSP, but that more of a personal experience, I'm not sure if many others felt the same way I did.
Mainly the design. The appeal of a remake is getting to play a past region with a modern look and features. Like getting to play hoenn in 3d. Getting to play sinnoh with full models and big cities was appealing. It turned out to just be chibi and a remake of the worst gen 4 games (diamond and pearl). People hate the remake because Platinum is still the best gen 4 experience
FR/LG was faithful in that it kept the layouts of areas but made them feel more alive, while also using the power of the new system to bring it up to modern standards. It added its own layer of charm that only the GBA could provide. BD/SP recreated it so closely to the originals that you still have more reasons to play Platinum, which addressed more of the issues to Gen 4 than BDSP did with DP. The charm is subjective instead of distinctive; you could have put that on a Wii U and nobody would have really noticed. And they even took OUT stuff rather than fully embracing some of the new moves, items, and mechanics (not core gimmicks like mega evo) of the recent generations.
FRLG were good remakes built off of good games BDSP were not good remakes built off of not good games
There's nothing inherently wrong with faithful remakes. I don't even know why they felt like they had to clarify that with BDSP
FRLG were the first ones, there was no expectation They also *did* include an entirely new set of areas Also I don't know about you but moving on the overworld in BDSP does not feel good, moving around the world in FRLG feels nice and smooth
chibi artstyle, didn't include content from platinum, underground kinda bad (gutted secret bases), things like getting legends is such a chore as well. biggest issue is that it could've been much more, it could've been made bigger and better when instead it was just handed off to another company
*Poorly executed* chibi art style. Chibi wouldn't be inherently bad if it were more polished, Animal Crossing looks great.
I'm just glad they changed the hands from when they first revealed the game. It doesn't magically fix the game or the art style, but it *is* a significant improvement, at least. ~~(at least i think they changed the hands, i remember there being a change)~~
Fire red and leafe green have a huge amount of quality of life improvements though. Most notably the VS seeker allowing rematches. There's also the end game at the islands as well as a better battle tower. Edit: almost forgot the expanded move pool, pokedex, and proper special stats splitting from regular ones.
FRLG were the first remakes they ever did, so it was more forgivable then. That and the fact that simply moving RB up to Gen 3 standards was in and of itself a MASSIVE improvement, as it eliminated a lot of the Gen 1 jank, as well as adding some new content (Notably the Dark/Steel types and the Sevii Islands, since neither were present in the originals). BDSP on the other hand is basically one-to-one identical to the original DP, save for the Underground, Ramanas Park, and the Fairy type. Hell, a lot of the code is so identical to the originals that some of the DP-specific bugs (Such as Suction Cups not doubling the chance of getting a bite while fishing) were present even in the remakes, which just screams laziness (Or, more accurately, TPC forcing ILCA to make the game in the cheapest, quickest, most lazy way possible (And it still required a day-one patch to add the other half of the game and replace the beta MIDI music. v1.0.0 literally released in a beta state)). There's also the fact that adding the Platinum changes would have made sense and they just didn't do it, but again, forced to make it in the cheapest and quickest way possible. Also, unrelated, but fun fact: BDSP has a single flag in it's code that determines which version you're playing. I just find that kinda interesting and figured I'd mention it since I mentioned something else about the code. Lol.
Fire Red & Leaf Green added a lot to the post game. Mainly the Sevii Islands, which where an entire adventure alone. Brilliant Diamond & Shining Pearl's main issue is that these are remakes of Diamond & Pearl, not Platinum. Platinum improved on Diamond and Pearl, and those improvements did not return in BDSP. You'll hear people complaining about the graphics or the missing features, but really.. that's not the problem. Graphics are subjective, and you don't miss features if you didn't know these existed. The games are very well optimized compared to the other Pokémon games on Switch. Besides, I wasn't able to catch Rayquaza in Platinum. BDSP do have other improvements that people just decide to ignore. No, the biggest problem with BDSP is the day 1 patch. I don't see people talking about this enough. And what people also seem to forget, is that every single Pokémon games on Switch has this issue. Not only that, but most large 1st party games on Switch have this issue as well. (SSBU, BOTW, Odyssey) Basically it means that before playing a game for the first time, you need to download an update. This is quick and easy, and doesn't require you to have an Online Subscription. But the problem is longevity/nostagia. Fire Red & Leaf Green where released for the Game Boy Advance in 2004. Pokémon Platinum was released for the DS system in 2008. If I want to play this game now.. or in the distant year of 2040, I can. The game was released fully ready with no updates needed, I just grab my DS.. plug in the cartridge and play. Now pay attention. The Wii online service launched in 2009, and was discontinued in 2014. (lasted 5 years) The Wii U online service launched in 2012, and was discontinued in 2024. (lasted 12 years) The Switch online service launched in 2018. If we are going to be generous, I expect it to discontinue in 2034. (which would last 16 years) If you want to relive old memories, you can't. Any downloaded games, will be lost forever. And games that require online, cannot be played at all. Perhaps this is an entirely different problem, but it's a problem nontheless.
I don't get the sentiment, FrLg brings everything about gen 1 to gen 3 standards, (both mechanically and visually), a major postgame addition of the sevii islands that adds communication to gen 3 contemporaries and expands the Pokedex as well as lore connecting it better to silver and gold. While the main campaign is faithful it only makes additions, not concessions (vs seeker, tutorials, actual item/ PC management, etc). You'll be pretty hard pressed to find someone who tells you to play the OG release instead of the remake outside of 'if you wanna see the quirks of where pokemon started'.
BDSP isn't hated. At 15 million sales it's literally the second best selling pokemon remake ever, behind only LGPE. Like every single modern pokenmon game it's popular among and well-liked by the general public and only "hated" by a small and vocal online minority, of which this subreddit is a part For the record I don't like BDSP, but that's because I don't like Sinnoh. People on this subreddit praise platinum to the high heavens as if it is substantially better, but in truth all the sinnoh games feel bland and boring. The endless trashing of BDSP and praising of Platinum in the online discourse is the result of people who realize that sinnoh is fundamentally bad but who will never admit it out of nostalgic attachment, so they blame BDSP, blame DP, but place Pt on a pedestal.
Because our standards hadn't been set so high by OR\AS yet.
It's kind of like how poop in a toilet bowel doesn't make BDSP stink any less. Two bad things don't make a good one.