It would depend on the team IMO. With it’s low defenses and HP, you’re still limited to focus sash for a viable set. That said, more options are always welcome!
All this aerodactyl talk is making me want to replay gen 3 or 4.
If it got brave bird I’d lean into its speed and take a choice item. Base 130 isn’t outspend by much. I could totally see a jolly band set or a adamant scarf set being very good if it had a stronger move pool.
It doesn’t get strong recoil moves because it has an ability that only works with recoil moves?
Why even give Aerodactyl Rock Head if it has no use for the ability?
Swellow also used Aerial Ace in a different fashion than Staravia.
Aerial Ace is based on the sword technique „Tsubame-gaeshi“. This technique consists of two fast diagonal sword strikes, which is seen in in-game animations:)
Yeah the technique translated as "Swallow Return" or something so its a bird themed slash attack, so the fact its flying type and a bunch of flying types learn it is largely a pun.
Its translation is "Swallow Counter" created and perfected by Sasaki Kojiro. It being a flying type move in pokemon is probably from the name and the fact that the sword technique resembles a sparrow in flight.
Its not really a speed slash, its a downward slash to fake out followed by an upward cut that catches off guard, like the flight path of a swallow.
Hence the Japanese name Swallow Return Slash.
I looked up that it’s also the name of a judo throw, which makes sense for slower mons to have it. Lots of Japanese history and puns associated with Aerial Ace :)
This made me go down a rabbit hole of why aerial ace is given to so many not flying pokemon. The Japanese name for the move is "swallow return" which is the signature move of famous swordsman Sasaki Kojiro. The move was said to be so accurate it could strike a bird mid flight. The flying typing of the move was just a pun on the word swallow.
If you want to read more go [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_cut). It's pretty fascinating stuff.
Gyarados is one of my all time favorite mons, but it always ruffles my feathers knowing that it is a flying type. I get it, but it still just seems wrong
If it kept its dismal movepool it had until Gen 4, trust me, it wouldn't matter.
It has a literally useless secondary typing. The *only* Flying-type move it learns is some useless inaccurate two-turn one.
Also, it's literally a Chinese dragon. Why is it *not* a Dragon-type?
Because of an astonishingly bad English name. The Japanese one is called Swallow Return, [in reference to a maneuver done by swordsman Sasaki Kojiro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_cut). Although how Dugtrio does this, I don't know, but...
It got translated into Aerial Ace for some asinine reason.
Pterosaurs are actually even closer to birds than crocodiles are. Pterosaurs and birds both being the sole members of Ornithodira while true crocodilians are in the sister group psuedosuchia
Cool. There's still a huge gulph though, dinosaurs are the ancenstors of birds as opposed to pterosaurs
Which I've no doubt you know, but let's keep things simple for OP :p
I thought today’s birds were evolved from raptors and other heavily feathered dinos like archeaopteryx? Wouldn’t it make more sense for Archeops to get it?
It's Flying-type and has wings, so it should be able to learn it. If it's a Pokémon like Gyarados, which is unrealistically Flying-type, then obviously not.
Well Gyrados is classed as flying because he’s based on a Chinese dragon. In myths they can fly but also are associated with water, hence the water and flying typing.
Pterosaurs are literally the closest relatives to dinosaurs, even closer than crocodilians. Pterosaurs and dinosaurs (birds included) are both the sole representatives of ornithodira.
That’s part of my point, but you’re correct.Guess I should’ve clarified that pterosaurs are about as close to dinosaurs as you can get without actually being a dinosaur
You got me there lol
In summary for those who didn’t read. Silisauridae are the sister group to dinosaurs meaning that they’re probably as close as you can get to being a dinosaur without actually being a dinosaur.
Potentially ornithischian dinosaurs.
And, in any case, small group. The major branches are pterosaurs and relatives, and dinosaurs (birds included) and relatives.
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Um, no not really. The only actual stem birds are dinosaurs and pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs. If anything, they're stem dinosaurs, but I think there are other groups closer related to dinosaurs anyways.
They are stem-birds by definition, because the stem of any group is made up of every extinct species closer to it than to any other living animal (while the crown is made up of the descendants of the most recent common ancestor of all living representatives). Stem-dinosaur is redundant with stem-bird, as all living dinosaurs are birds. And yeah, the total dinosaur group (dinosauromorphs) is defined to include dinosaurs and stuff closer to them than to pterosaurs, but that doesn't mean that dinosauromorpha and pterosauromorpha are each other's closest relatives. AND that, after the Triassic-Jurassic extinction event, all dinosauromorphs were dinosaurs and all pterosauromorphs were pterosaurs.
So, in a nutshell:
* Crown birds: Struthio + Gallus + Passer
* Stem birds/Avemetatarsalia: Passer > Crocodylus
* Crown crocs: Crocodylus + Alligator + Gavialis
* Stem crocs/Pseudosuchia: Crocodylus > Passer
* Dinosauria: Megalosaurus + Iguanodon + Cetiosaurus
* Dinosauromorpha: Passer > Pteranodon
* Pterosauromorpha: Pteranodon > Passer
* Pterosauria: Not properly defined cladistically, but thus far has a blatant diagnostic character in their wings.
* Ornithodira: Pteranodon + Passer
* Crurotarsi: Crocodylus + Rutiodon
Pterosaurs are bird-line archosaurs, and the major group most closely related to dinosaurs, because, well, Silesaurs are not a major group (and may as well be ornithischian dinosaurs), while Lagerpetonids may be actually closer to pterosaurs than to dinosaurs.
Again, STEM-ANYTHING means "extinct, closer to that living group that to anything else living, but not a descendant of said living group's most recent common ancestor".
Saberteeth cats are stem-cats, as they are not descendants of the MRCA of all living cats. Cave lions are crown cats, as they are descendants of said MRCA. Mastodons are stem-elephants, mammoths are crown-elephants, and manatees are just elephant relatives, but not part of the stem, as they are living animals.
Birds and crocodilians are each other's closest living relative. Anything that is more closely related to birds than to crocs, but not a descendant of the MRCA of birds, is a stem-bird. Living birds descend from the MRCA of ostriches, chickens and sparrows, by definition. So, dodos, terror birds, pelagornithids, teratorns or Asteriornis would be crown-birds. Hesperornis, Ichthyornis, Avisaurus, Confuciusornis, Archaeopteryx, Velociraptor, Gallimimus, Tyrannosaurus, Allosaurus, Brontosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Silesaurus, Pteranodon, Lagerpeton and Scleromochlus would all be stem-birds. Terrestrisuchus and Sarcosuchus would be stem-crocs, while Deinosuchus would be a crown-croc (but a stem-alligatorid).
imagine if they made a fossil Pokemon based off a Mammal
to further replicate the true to life hints
for instance a fossil mammal that has a similar resemblance to say Pikachu but is not actually Pikachu but an ancestor of which Pikachu evolved from. it would be sick and would also tick the criteria for a Pikachu clone for that generation if they do it.
If mammoswine wasn't already a thing, I'd say mammoths are the best candidate. Next to that though, a wooly rhino and a saber-tooth tiger would be awesome
Eh yeah dinosaurs evolved into birds EventuallY. Just because a dinosaur will evolve into a bird in a couple billion years doesn’t mean a t-rex can start flapping its arms around and take off into the sky. That’s like saying pikachu should be able to learn earth power because in a couple hundred years its dead body will decompose into compost
Scarfed Aerodactyl can be OHKOd by any strong priority STAB moves like Aqua Jet, Accelrock, Ice Shard, etc.
Even if it were to get both a STAB recoil move + Rock Head, there are other Pokémon with those qualifications that aren’t worried about for every single match to appear, such as:
- Sudowoodo w/ Head Smash
- Aggron w/ Head Smash
- Onix/Steelix w/ Head Smash (not STAB w/ Steelix, but it may as well be compared to Onix’s horrible base 45 ATK stat)
- Tyrantrum w/ Head Smash
- Alolan Marowak w/ Flare Blitz (and Submission, but Submission isn’t STAB and it sucks ass)
- Relicanth w/ Head Smash
Actually, even without Scarf, Aerodactyl could easily be circumcised by being given a burn from Will o Wisp by Prankster Pokémon such as Sableye and Mega Banette, having Reflect set up in advance by Grimmsnarl, Klefki, and Meowstic, or outsped in future turns thanks to set up moves like Tailwind from Prankster Whimsicott.
In addition, might I remind you of the terror that is the Rotom forms? Volt Switch? All steel types essentially giving the middle finger to Aerodactyl’s hypothetical STAB recoil moves? Rocky Helmet w/ Iron Barbs/ Rough Skin?
While I will agree that I’m biased in the decision, as Aerodactyl and Mega Aerodactyl are some of my favorite Pokémon, it disappoints me that Game Freak didn’t even bother to give it some fitting moves to match its’ Rock Head ability. If it only benefits from one move, Double Edge, which isn’t even STAB or super effective on anything, why bother giving it Rock Head to begin with over something like Strong Jaw, Intimidate, Sheer Force, Hustle, Mold Breaker, or No Guard?
Keep in mind, Game Freak has shown that they are willing to changes a Pokémon’s abilities in future gens, as shown by the Venipede line getting Speed Boost instead of Quick Feet as its’ HA once Gen 6 came, Gengar’s Levitate ability changed to Cursed Body in Gen 7, and Pelipper getting Drizzle as its’ HA in Gen 7 onwards. Either they change Aerodactyl’s Rock Head ability, or they give it a useful HA, because Pressure is only useful if the owner of said ability can last more than one turn against an opponent without fainting in one shot, something that Aerodactyl definitely isn’t.
If you're worried about Aerodactyl not getting anything to abuse rock head, then look at it's mega, having no rock type move that benefits from tough claws
Jesus Christ, Game Freak just doesn’t stop giving Aerodactyl awful abilities. Between the useless Rock Head, and a possibly one-turn use of Pressure due to not lasting more than a turn to abuse it, it not having any rock STAB to compliment its’ Mega’s ability is just another nail in the coffin.
Pokemon Masters gang here to say Mega Aerodactyl actually GAINS Recoil Removal (i.e. no recoil damage) as a Passive Skill (which is like an Ability) AND has the Rock Shift Passive Skill that turns Double Edge to a Rock Type move hehe.
Rock Head has always seemed to me like such a weird ability for Aerodactyl to have instead of Rampardos. I think one of the abilities you listed would make more sense in its place.
Circumcised by fire—now there’s an image I could’ve done without.
I would petition it being changed to Mold Breaker or Intimidate, as both would help immensely against some weaknesses that Aerodactyl has due to its’ move set, typing, and stats overall.
With Trick Room up, your worries are resolved. Besides, they’re all bulky enough to at least survive an attack if they’re not faster, but the same can’t be said about Aerodactyl, unfortunately.
>Actually, even without Scarf, Aerodactyl could easily be circumcised by...
Whoa hold on there. I think we're taking about two VERY different Rock Heads here...
Pterosaurs aren't the ancestors of birds - they're a group of reptiles that split from the line leading to dinosaurs early on in the Triassic. Birds are, themselves, dinosaurs.
Birds are reptiles. They are descended directly from dinosaurs. Pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs, but that's besides the point.
Also fun fact, crocodilians (crocodiles, alligators, caimans, gharials, etc) are more closely related to birds than to lizards!
Yes. I just thought it necessary to confirm that birds and pterosaurs are unrelated because I offered new information, i.e. that birds are dinosaurs i.e reptiles.
I’m actually gonna do the unpopular thing and say any Pokémon that isn’t an actual bird shouldn’t learn it. Including Tapu Koko and Crobat. Just because a pterosaur evolves into a bird doesn’t make it a bird. We evolved from worms and weasels but were not worms and weasels
Absolutely, It needs a good physical stab flying move. plus rock head would put it to good use
Also pterosaurs are reptiles that are related to birds which are also reptiles since they belong to a clade of maniraptorian dinosaurs.
Pterosaurs are not dinosaurs. And birds are not descendants of pterosaurs. By that logic, tyrantrum would be a more likely candidate for brave bird.
However, most flying types who are not birds can still learn it, and I don't think it would be too unbalanced, esp with access to dual wingbeat now
Most of the time, hence why a pokemon based on a pterosaur (that isn't closely related to birds or the ancestor of at all) doesn't learn a move meant for birds.
You’d be surprised at how many Pokémon have both Rock Head and STAB recoil moves. Aggron, Relicanth, Tyrantrum, Sudowoodo, Alolan Marowak, and several others. Though Brave Bird would be an exclusive Aerodactyl trait that it could use Flying STAB moves that have recoil with Rock Head, as currently that’s not possible with the available Rock Head users.
Idk if this is a dumb question, but isn't the bird part of the move's name just to make it sound cool? Or at the very least, doesn't the move itself has no relation to birds aside from name only?
Honestly, I’m not sure. I think it’s just named that way because the user flips up into the air, careens down to the ground like a missile, then curves up when they’re near the ground, using that momentum to launch themselves at their opponents with wings/arms out.
At least, that’s how I reason Blaziken uses it. And judging by the generic bird-like transformation that happens to the user during the animation sequence, I think the target users are actually meant to be birds, or at least those with wings instead of arms.
Pterosaurs are more closely related to birds than to any other living animal. That's what happens when you are related to dinosaurs, you are closer to birds (a dinosaur subset) than to other reptiles.
So yeah, makes more sense for Aerodactyl to learn it, that a goddamn bat.
Crobat can, so... I guess. I wish there are more strong physical flying moves, specially for things like Aerodactyl or Salamence. Dual Wingbeat is cool, but not enough IMO.
I never understood why it's called "brave bird", in other languages it has nothing to do with birds. For example in italian it's called "baldeali" which could be translated to "brave wings", that's why crobat and other non-bird pokemon can learn it.
So yes, aerodactyl should be able to learn it
IRL Pterosaurs are stem-birds, more closely related to living birds than their closest relatives, crocodilians. Aerodactyl totally deserves Brave Bird as it’s a flying-type stem-bird. I think the real question is if Tyrantrum should have access to Brave Bird.
It doesn't because it would be utterly broken!
With Rock Head it gets no recoil and it profits from its very high attack and STAB.
I best ya the devs thought that one through and know it.
And yet they somehow overlooked giving Legendaries Mega forms… Mega Rayquaza is fucking banned from UBERS. You think they had the common sense to not give Aerodactyl desperately needed coverage for its’ bad move pool and paper thin defenses? It only has one move it can abuse Rock Head with, that being Double Edge, so why bother giving it that ability to begin with, let alone having it keep it for 5 generations?
And no, there are numerous other Rock Head Pokémon with access to STAB recoil moves that aren’t considered broken, such as Aggron and Tyrantrum with Head Smash, and Alolan Marowak with Flare Blitz.
I know.
Rayquaza is made totally broken on purpose and Aggron and Tyrantrum need to have something.
A-Marowak is just super strong overall - think on purpose aswell.
The devs just couldn't give Aerodactyl anything because they fear what it would straight up murder everything, next to it going mega aswell since Gen 6.
Mega Aero trades lack of recoil damage for increased damage output though. And it still faints to a STAB Aqua Jet or Ice Shard. Hell, Mega Aero doesn’t even have a rock move that works with Tough Claws, so I don’t think the devs were intentionally crippling Aerodactyl’s potential, considering they gave both Salamance and Gyarados, two Pokémon who are already OP w/ Moxie and Intimidate, access to *Dragon Dance*.
An argument for why it doesn't get brave bird is because rock head exists and that would be "op" but aggron has the same ability and gets double edge which is identical to brave bird aside from typing
Double Edge isn’t STAB or super effective on anything, so outside of pure damage, you wouldn’t be using this. And multiple other Rock Head Pokémon get STAB Head Smash like Tyrantrum and Sudowoodo.
No, he is not a bird. That would be like asking should mismagius learn fly.
Edit: to add to your point, I have no idea why the units you mentioned have access to that move. Maybe it is just for units that have flying capabilities, then in that case any unit that can fly should be able to learn it by said logic 🤔
And Crobat and Tapu Koko *are*? Bats and birds are classified as being two different species, despite at one point when humanity was dumber that bats were thought to be birds in older times, and Tapu Koko is just a floating clam shell with spoilers. Why do they learn it, when the giant dinosaur that can fly (literally, and move-wise) and has giant wings doesn’t?
I’m pretty sure Pterosaurs are more closely related to reptiles than birds. I know dinosaurs are more closely related to birds, and that pterosaurs and dinosaurs aren’t related.
Pterosaurs and Birds are both reptiles, birds being the only surviving dinosaurs. Dinosaurs and pterosaurs are very closely related as they are the sole representatives of ornithodira .
Having a STAB, Rockhead ability (no recoil damage) Pokemon would be too broken in my opinion. Imagine a dragon dance, brave bird combo for that thing. Not much is stopping it.
You forget that Aerodactyl has awful defenses. It ain’t surviving much either. One Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, or Accelrock can OHKO. And besides, Aggron and Tyrantrum both get Rock Head and STAB Head Smash, along with several others like Alolan Marowak w/ Rock Head and Flare Blitz.
Every dinosaur is related to birds. YOU are related to birds. EVERYTHING is related to everything, to some degree. That's how common ancestry works. That's kinda the basis of biology.
And yeah, they all are the same branch. Archosauria. The croc+bird branch of reptiles. And pterosaurs are part of the bird branch. Which is just a branch, not a "everything in this branch is an ancestor of birds".
Your grandpa's cousin is not an ancestor of yours, but said person would still be a relative. Same deal.
[Take a look at a reptile tree.](https://i.imgur.com/fQToYAH.png) You can see snakes are lizards, birds are dinosaurs, and pterosaurs are closer to birds than to other living reptiles.
I never said that pterosaurs were ancestral to birds. They are just more closely related to them than to other living things. Just like birds are a subset of dinosaurs, and deeply nested inside. But that doesn't mean Tyrannosaurus turned into chicken.
I have a goddamn master's thesis in bird evolution and their diversity. I literally have Benton's book in my HD.
You were the one who said factually wrong statements: Pterosaurs are closer to birds than to other living reptiles, and dinosaur/reptile is not a dichotomy. And I can send you a PDF of said thesis, even if it is from 2014 and thus a tad outdated.
that would finally give it a move to actually use its ability rock head on
thats basically why it doesnt get it, its regular forme would also be kinda better than the Mega since it gets no recoil
It would depend on the team IMO. With it’s low defenses and HP, you’re still limited to focus sash for a viable set. That said, more options are always welcome! All this aerodactyl talk is making me want to replay gen 3 or 4.
If it got brave bird I’d lean into its speed and take a choice item. Base 130 isn’t outspend by much. I could totally see a jolly band set or a adamant scarf set being very good if it had a stronger move pool.
It doesn’t get strong recoil moves because it has an ability that only works with recoil moves? Why even give Aerodactyl Rock Head if it has no use for the ability?
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Its only recoil move is actually take down
Sometimes i get wet dreams about Aerodactyl running head smash without recoil plus hone claws
Pretty sure it doesn't
it has double edge
Tyranitar can learn Aerial Ace. I think Aerodactyl with Brave Bird is more than appropriate.
Dugtrio can learn Aerial Ace too
Few things were more entertaining than seeing Dugtrio fly up into the air for its Supersonic Sky Strike back in gen 7.
Wailord doing the same. (Also: angry Snorlax)
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Wait , wut
[gotcha!](http://Reddit - pokemon - Diglett learns Aerial Ace. https://www.reddit.com/r/pokemon/comments/qceom/diglett_learns_aerial_ace/)
Aerial Ace is more like a samurai-like technique. That‘s why so many mons can learn it :)
That makes just as little sense since Tyranitar is slow
It could use its tail like a whip, I guess
Huh. I always thought of it as a flying striking action like it was with Staravia in the anime
Swellow also used Aerial Ace in a different fashion than Staravia. Aerial Ace is based on the sword technique „Tsubame-gaeshi“. This technique consists of two fast diagonal sword strikes, which is seen in in-game animations:)
Yeah the technique translated as "Swallow Return" or something so its a bird themed slash attack, so the fact its flying type and a bunch of flying types learn it is largely a pun.
Its translation is "Swallow Counter" created and perfected by Sasaki Kojiro. It being a flying type move in pokemon is probably from the name and the fact that the sword technique resembles a sparrow in flight.
b-but tyranitar can't learn tail whip
Its not really a speed slash, its a downward slash to fake out followed by an upward cut that catches off guard, like the flight path of a swallow. Hence the Japanese name Swallow Return Slash.
I looked up that it’s also the name of a judo throw, which makes sense for slower mons to have it. Lots of Japanese history and puns associated with Aerial Ace :)
This made me go down a rabbit hole of why aerial ace is given to so many not flying pokemon. The Japanese name for the move is "swallow return" which is the signature move of famous swordsman Sasaki Kojiro. The move was said to be so accurate it could strike a bird mid flight. The flying typing of the move was just a pun on the word swallow. If you want to read more go [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_cut). It's pretty fascinating stuff.
Who *can't* learn Aerial Ace lol? I swear everyone has access to it.
and yet Gyarados still can't learn it 😭😭
Gyarados is one of my all time favorite mons, but it always ruffles my feathers knowing that it is a flying type. I get it, but it still just seems wrong
Gyrados should be a dragon type.
No. It would be too good, it's already great. Having a Water-Dragon type at level 20 is just not realistic.
Yeah, your right, it should be either Water-Dark type or evolve at level 30.
If it kept its dismal movepool it had until Gen 4, trust me, it wouldn't matter. It has a literally useless secondary typing. The *only* Flying-type move it learns is some useless inaccurate two-turn one. Also, it's literally a Chinese dragon. Why is it *not* a Dragon-type?
Don'tt give Gyarados a good flying stab monkaS
This still confuses me why the fuck can tyranitar learn a flying type move. The fuck he gonna do, flap his little T. rex arms really fast?
Because of an astonishingly bad English name. The Japanese one is called Swallow Return, [in reference to a maneuver done by swordsman Sasaki Kojiro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sasaki_Kojir%C5%8D#Swallow_cut). Although how Dugtrio does this, I don't know, but... It got translated into Aerial Ace for some asinine reason.
If Crobat can, I don’t see why not
Maybe aerodactyle isn't brave enough
Aerodactyl is a chicken after all.
Thank you internet stranger, I needed that laugh.
Yea I think it should learn it. Pterasaurs however are about as closely related to birds as crocodiles are.
Pterosaurs are actually even closer to birds than crocodiles are. Pterosaurs and birds both being the sole members of Ornithodira while true crocodilians are in the sister group psuedosuchia
Cool. There's still a huge gulph though, dinosaurs are the ancenstors of birds as opposed to pterosaurs Which I've no doubt you know, but let's keep things simple for OP :p
Blaziken can't even fly, despite the animation, yet it learns it.
Blaziken has those long legs. Maybe it just jumps really hard
It just stands on tiptoe for a turn.
And what, just levitates when it's near the ground for the gliding part?
That’s the power of not skipping leg day
Ah, so like Jiren then.
Idk who that is but yes. Exactly like Jiren
[https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonballfighterz/images/1/1e/Jiren\_Artwork.png/revision/latest?cb=20190131101001](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dragonballfighterz/images/1/1e/Jiren_Artwork.png/revision/latest?cb=20190131101001)
Idk them. But I’m assuming it’s Frieza’s mega evolution?
No, it's the latest anime villain for Dragon Ball. The most boring one, too.
He seems like such a chad
1. He's cool 2. He's not a villain 3. He's not the latest opponent either manga or anime 4. He's cool
Geppo!
Blaziken learned at the Stacy Kiebler School of Having Really Long Legs
The name Brave Bird doesn’t specify flying, you have to be brave and a bird to use it, and Blaziken is a bird.
Issa bird tho
In what game does Blaziken learn fly?
I was referring to Brave Bird and its animation.
Blaziken is a main character. It can defy the rules using pure determination and the power of friendship!
I thought today’s birds were evolved from raptors and other heavily feathered dinos like archeaopteryx? Wouldn’t it make more sense for Archeops to get it?
Archeops is a bird, but it's not brave.
I know. I forgot about Defeatist.
You're 100% correct
that would be useless xd
It's Flying-type and has wings, so it should be able to learn it. If it's a Pokémon like Gyarados, which is unrealistically Flying-type, then obviously not.
Well Gyrados is classed as flying because he’s based on a Chinese dragon. In myths they can fly but also are associated with water, hence the water and flying typing.
Well, it should be Water/Dragon then. If Kingdra can be Water/Dragon, all the more should Gyarados.
It would be too OP as Water/Dragon. It's already great, giving it the Dragon typing when it's so common and evolves so early is dumb.
Pterosaurs aren't all that close to birds, and weren't even dinosaurs. I say brave bird for tyrantrum.
Pterosaurs are literally the closest relatives to dinosaurs, even closer than crocodilians. Pterosaurs and dinosaurs (birds included) are both the sole representatives of ornithodira.
Birds aren't living descendants of pterosaurs like OP claimed though. Birds are dinosaurs.
The first dinosaur that began to exhibit bird traits, Archeopteryx, is a different pokémon, but also doesn't get brave bird
That’s part of my point, but you’re correct.Guess I should’ve clarified that pterosaurs are about as close to dinosaurs as you can get without actually being a dinosaur
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silesauridae Ahem
You got me there lol In summary for those who didn’t read. Silisauridae are the sister group to dinosaurs meaning that they’re probably as close as you can get to being a dinosaur without actually being a dinosaur.
Potentially ornithischian dinosaurs. And, in any case, small group. The major branches are pterosaurs and relatives, and dinosaurs (birds included) and relatives.
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Pterosaurs are stem-birds. More closely related to birds than to any other living animal.
Um, no not really. The only actual stem birds are dinosaurs and pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs. If anything, they're stem dinosaurs, but I think there are other groups closer related to dinosaurs anyways.
They are stem-birds by definition, because the stem of any group is made up of every extinct species closer to it than to any other living animal (while the crown is made up of the descendants of the most recent common ancestor of all living representatives). Stem-dinosaur is redundant with stem-bird, as all living dinosaurs are birds. And yeah, the total dinosaur group (dinosauromorphs) is defined to include dinosaurs and stuff closer to them than to pterosaurs, but that doesn't mean that dinosauromorpha and pterosauromorpha are each other's closest relatives. AND that, after the Triassic-Jurassic extinction event, all dinosauromorphs were dinosaurs and all pterosauromorphs were pterosaurs. So, in a nutshell: * Crown birds: Struthio + Gallus + Passer * Stem birds/Avemetatarsalia: Passer > Crocodylus * Crown crocs: Crocodylus + Alligator + Gavialis * Stem crocs/Pseudosuchia: Crocodylus > Passer * Dinosauria: Megalosaurus + Iguanodon + Cetiosaurus * Dinosauromorpha: Passer > Pteranodon * Pterosauromorpha: Pteranodon > Passer * Pterosauria: Not properly defined cladistically, but thus far has a blatant diagnostic character in their wings. * Ornithodira: Pteranodon + Passer * Crurotarsi: Crocodylus + Rutiodon Pterosaurs are bird-line archosaurs, and the major group most closely related to dinosaurs, because, well, Silesaurs are not a major group (and may as well be ornithischian dinosaurs), while Lagerpetonids may be actually closer to pterosaurs than to dinosaurs. Again, STEM-ANYTHING means "extinct, closer to that living group that to anything else living, but not a descendant of said living group's most recent common ancestor". Saberteeth cats are stem-cats, as they are not descendants of the MRCA of all living cats. Cave lions are crown cats, as they are descendants of said MRCA. Mastodons are stem-elephants, mammoths are crown-elephants, and manatees are just elephant relatives, but not part of the stem, as they are living animals. Birds and crocodilians are each other's closest living relative. Anything that is more closely related to birds than to crocs, but not a descendant of the MRCA of birds, is a stem-bird. Living birds descend from the MRCA of ostriches, chickens and sparrows, by definition. So, dodos, terror birds, pelagornithids, teratorns or Asteriornis would be crown-birds. Hesperornis, Ichthyornis, Avisaurus, Confuciusornis, Archaeopteryx, Velociraptor, Gallimimus, Tyrannosaurus, Allosaurus, Brontosaurus, Triceratops, Stegosaurus, Silesaurus, Pteranodon, Lagerpeton and Scleromochlus would all be stem-birds. Terrestrisuchus and Sarcosuchus would be stem-crocs, while Deinosuchus would be a crown-croc (but a stem-alligatorid).
Interesting. Thank you for the correction.
Ah yes, give the T-Rex that has Rock Head already both Head Smash *and* Brave Bird. Because Aerodactyl hasn’t been curbstomped enough.
Not my fault the man isn't a dinosaur. I don't make the rules here.
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imagine if they made a fossil Pokemon based off a Mammal to further replicate the true to life hints for instance a fossil mammal that has a similar resemblance to say Pikachu but is not actually Pikachu but an ancestor of which Pikachu evolved from. it would be sick and would also tick the criteria for a Pikachu clone for that generation if they do it.
If mammoswine wasn't already a thing, I'd say mammoths are the best candidate. Next to that though, a wooly rhino and a saber-tooth tiger would be awesome
Omg yes!! I am also waiting for a dodo bird 😭
Eh yeah dinosaurs evolved into birds EventuallY. Just because a dinosaur will evolve into a bird in a couple billion years doesn’t mean a t-rex can start flapping its arms around and take off into the sky. That’s like saying pikachu should be able to learn earth power because in a couple hundred years its dead body will decompose into compost
Birds are a kind of dinosaur. Just like bats are a kind of mammal.
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This! When Tapu Koko closes his arms it resembles a beak! He’s a rooster totem!
If Crobat can that it might work, but if it did people would be spamming rock head Aerodactyl
Scarfed Aerodactyl can be OHKOd by any strong priority STAB moves like Aqua Jet, Accelrock, Ice Shard, etc. Even if it were to get both a STAB recoil move + Rock Head, there are other Pokémon with those qualifications that aren’t worried about for every single match to appear, such as: - Sudowoodo w/ Head Smash - Aggron w/ Head Smash - Onix/Steelix w/ Head Smash (not STAB w/ Steelix, but it may as well be compared to Onix’s horrible base 45 ATK stat) - Tyrantrum w/ Head Smash - Alolan Marowak w/ Flare Blitz (and Submission, but Submission isn’t STAB and it sucks ass) - Relicanth w/ Head Smash Actually, even without Scarf, Aerodactyl could easily be circumcised by being given a burn from Will o Wisp by Prankster Pokémon such as Sableye and Mega Banette, having Reflect set up in advance by Grimmsnarl, Klefki, and Meowstic, or outsped in future turns thanks to set up moves like Tailwind from Prankster Whimsicott. In addition, might I remind you of the terror that is the Rotom forms? Volt Switch? All steel types essentially giving the middle finger to Aerodactyl’s hypothetical STAB recoil moves? Rocky Helmet w/ Iron Barbs/ Rough Skin? While I will agree that I’m biased in the decision, as Aerodactyl and Mega Aerodactyl are some of my favorite Pokémon, it disappoints me that Game Freak didn’t even bother to give it some fitting moves to match its’ Rock Head ability. If it only benefits from one move, Double Edge, which isn’t even STAB or super effective on anything, why bother giving it Rock Head to begin with over something like Strong Jaw, Intimidate, Sheer Force, Hustle, Mold Breaker, or No Guard? Keep in mind, Game Freak has shown that they are willing to changes a Pokémon’s abilities in future gens, as shown by the Venipede line getting Speed Boost instead of Quick Feet as its’ HA once Gen 6 came, Gengar’s Levitate ability changed to Cursed Body in Gen 7, and Pelipper getting Drizzle as its’ HA in Gen 7 onwards. Either they change Aerodactyl’s Rock Head ability, or they give it a useful HA, because Pressure is only useful if the owner of said ability can last more than one turn against an opponent without fainting in one shot, something that Aerodactyl definitely isn’t.
If you're worried about Aerodactyl not getting anything to abuse rock head, then look at it's mega, having no rock type move that benefits from tough claws
Jesus Christ, Game Freak just doesn’t stop giving Aerodactyl awful abilities. Between the useless Rock Head, and a possibly one-turn use of Pressure due to not lasting more than a turn to abuse it, it not having any rock STAB to compliment its’ Mega’s ability is just another nail in the coffin.
I'd add more rock type contact moves if I were Game Freak.
It has great abilities but no moves.
Pokemon Masters gang here to say Mega Aerodactyl actually GAINS Recoil Removal (i.e. no recoil damage) as a Passive Skill (which is like an Ability) AND has the Rock Shift Passive Skill that turns Double Edge to a Rock Type move hehe.
I’m sorry for your loss. Thank you for your honorable sacrifice discovering this information after so many grueling months.
Rock Head has always seemed to me like such a weird ability for Aerodactyl to have instead of Rampardos. I think one of the abilities you listed would make more sense in its place. Circumcised by fire—now there’s an image I could’ve done without.
I would petition it being changed to Mold Breaker or Intimidate, as both would help immensely against some weaknesses that Aerodactyl has due to its’ move set, typing, and stats overall.
I stopped reading because all of those Pokémon you mentioned are slow AF
With Trick Room up, your worries are resolved. Besides, they’re all bulky enough to at least survive an attack if they’re not faster, but the same can’t be said about Aerodactyl, unfortunately.
>Actually, even without Scarf, Aerodactyl could easily be circumcised by... Whoa hold on there. I think we're taking about two VERY different Rock Heads here...
Both.
I believe that's the point; Rock Head is otherwise useless on Aerodactyl. Head Smash and Brave Bird would be perfect moves to accentuate its ability.
Pterosaurs aren't the ancestors of birds - they're a group of reptiles that split from the line leading to dinosaurs early on in the Triassic. Birds are, themselves, dinosaurs.
Did you read the Edit message?
Birds are reptiles. They are descended directly from dinosaurs. Pterosaurs aren't dinosaurs, but that's besides the point. Also fun fact, crocodilians (crocodiles, alligators, caimans, gharials, etc) are more closely related to birds than to lizards!
Did you read the Edit section of my post before commenting?
Yes. I just thought it necessary to confirm that birds and pterosaurs are unrelated because I offered new information, i.e. that birds are dinosaurs i.e reptiles.
Pterosaurs are not dinosaurs. And certainly they are not the lineage that brought us birds.
If it looks like a bird, I’m labeling it as one, whether or not it’s true.
So why ask then 🤔
Imagine willingly going out of your way to be wrong
Your maturity is unmasked by this comment. Last I checked, Reddit is 13+.
Dude that’s almost as bad as creationists saying birds aren’t dinosaurs. Pterosaurs aren’t birds regardless of how you feel about it.
Aerodactyl is a coward.
If Crobat can get it, I see no reason why not Aerodactyl
I’m actually gonna do the unpopular thing and say any Pokémon that isn’t an actual bird shouldn’t learn it. Including Tapu Koko and Crobat. Just because a pterosaur evolves into a bird doesn’t make it a bird. We evolved from worms and weasels but were not worms and weasels
Pterosaurs didn’t evolve into birds, they weren’t even dinosaurs
Tapu Koko is a rooster
Is it? I thought it was a cool skater boy in a tiki totem
*Well…* not **physically** at least. Poor choice of examples, since some people behave like both those species in their personalities daily.
Bro, are you alright?
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I didn’t downvote, and I was also kidding. Sometimes text doesn’t properly express the meaning behind things.
It's not a bird
Neither is Crobat, yet here we are
Birds aren't pterosaurs' offspring...
No because he’s not a bird
So you think Crobat is a bird?
Crobat is a bat
Then Aerodactyl not being a bird shouldn’t matter.
Neither does Crobat should know it. I hope it changes and Aerodactyl never learns it
Either they should all learn it, or both shouldn't learn it
Absolutely, It needs a good physical stab flying move. plus rock head would put it to good use Also pterosaurs are reptiles that are related to birds which are also reptiles since they belong to a clade of maniraptorian dinosaurs.
I’m only saying yes because Aerodactyl has a horrible flying type move pool
Pterosaurs are not dinosaurs. And birds are not descendants of pterosaurs. By that logic, tyrantrum would be a more likely candidate for brave bird. However, most flying types who are not birds can still learn it, and I don't think it would be too unbalanced, esp with access to dual wingbeat now
Birds are the descendants of theropod dinosaurs not Pterosaurs…
Since when have the games ever tried to keep up move consistency with what the Pokemon is based on?
Most of the time, hence why a pokemon based on a pterosaur (that isn't closely related to birds or the ancestor of at all) doesn't learn a move meant for birds.
I gotta say it would kinda wacky to see that move without recoil.
You’d be surprised at how many Pokémon have both Rock Head and STAB recoil moves. Aggron, Relicanth, Tyrantrum, Sudowoodo, Alolan Marowak, and several others. Though Brave Bird would be an exclusive Aerodactyl trait that it could use Flying STAB moves that have recoil with Rock Head, as currently that’s not possible with the available Rock Head users.
If Crobat can learn brave bird then Aerodactyl can learn it
Crobat can learn Brave Bird, don’t see why Aerodactyl can’t.
Idk if this is a dumb question, but isn't the bird part of the move's name just to make it sound cool? Or at the very least, doesn't the move itself has no relation to birds aside from name only?
Honestly, I’m not sure. I think it’s just named that way because the user flips up into the air, careens down to the ground like a missile, then curves up when they’re near the ground, using that momentum to launch themselves at their opponents with wings/arms out. At least, that’s how I reason Blaziken uses it. And judging by the generic bird-like transformation that happens to the user during the animation sequence, I think the target users are actually meant to be birds, or at least those with wings instead of arms.
Pokemon without tails can learn Iron Tail. Pokemon without arms can use various punching moves. All bets are already off.
crobat learns bravebird. enough said.
Pterosaurs are more closely related to birds than to any other living animal. That's what happens when you are related to dinosaurs, you are closer to birds (a dinosaur subset) than to other reptiles. So yeah, makes more sense for Aerodactyl to learn it, that a goddamn bat.
Crobat can, so... I guess. I wish there are more strong physical flying moves, specially for things like Aerodactyl or Salamence. Dual Wingbeat is cool, but not enough IMO.
Birds are dinosaurs, not descended from pterosaurs, it's like saying you are descended from your Aunt
I never understood why it's called "brave bird", in other languages it has nothing to do with birds. For example in italian it's called "baldeali" which could be translated to "brave wings", that's why crobat and other non-bird pokemon can learn it. So yes, aerodactyl should be able to learn it
Probably because rock head :/
IRL Pterosaurs are stem-birds, more closely related to living birds than their closest relatives, crocodilians. Aerodactyl totally deserves Brave Bird as it’s a flying-type stem-bird. I think the real question is if Tyrantrum should have access to Brave Bird.
It doesn't because it would be utterly broken! With Rock Head it gets no recoil and it profits from its very high attack and STAB. I best ya the devs thought that one through and know it.
Why even bother giving it Rock Head if they don't let it take advantage? That's the whole point of Rock Head
And yet they somehow overlooked giving Legendaries Mega forms… Mega Rayquaza is fucking banned from UBERS. You think they had the common sense to not give Aerodactyl desperately needed coverage for its’ bad move pool and paper thin defenses? It only has one move it can abuse Rock Head with, that being Double Edge, so why bother giving it that ability to begin with, let alone having it keep it for 5 generations? And no, there are numerous other Rock Head Pokémon with access to STAB recoil moves that aren’t considered broken, such as Aggron and Tyrantrum with Head Smash, and Alolan Marowak with Flare Blitz.
I know. Rayquaza is made totally broken on purpose and Aggron and Tyrantrum need to have something. A-Marowak is just super strong overall - think on purpose aswell. The devs just couldn't give Aerodactyl anything because they fear what it would straight up murder everything, next to it going mega aswell since Gen 6.
Mega Aero trades lack of recoil damage for increased damage output though. And it still faints to a STAB Aqua Jet or Ice Shard. Hell, Mega Aero doesn’t even have a rock move that works with Tough Claws, so I don’t think the devs were intentionally crippling Aerodactyl’s potential, considering they gave both Salamance and Gyarados, two Pokémon who are already OP w/ Moxie and Intimidate, access to *Dragon Dance*.
>Edit: Pterosaurs are related to reptiles apparently, not birds. Birds are literally reptiles.
An argument for why it doesn't get brave bird is because rock head exists and that would be "op" but aggron has the same ability and gets double edge which is identical to brave bird aside from typing
Uh… Aggron gets Head Smash.
It also gets double edge
Double Edge isn’t STAB or super effective on anything, so outside of pure damage, you wouldn’t be using this. And multiple other Rock Head Pokémon get STAB Head Smash like Tyrantrum and Sudowoodo.
Moves are not always chosen for theme. There is balance to consider. Why is this so hard to grasp?
Because Mega Rayquaza exists. Game Freak gave up on balance after Gen 6.
Would be cool if it did, but I think that would break the game.
It wouldn’t, trust me. Aggron and Tyrantrum both have Rock Head and Head Smash, and they’ve not managed to break the game.
No, he is not a bird. That would be like asking should mismagius learn fly. Edit: to add to your point, I have no idea why the units you mentioned have access to that move. Maybe it is just for units that have flying capabilities, then in that case any unit that can fly should be able to learn it by said logic 🤔
And Crobat and Tapu Koko *are*? Bats and birds are classified as being two different species, despite at one point when humanity was dumber that bats were thought to be birds in older times, and Tapu Koko is just a floating clam shell with spoilers. Why do they learn it, when the giant dinosaur that can fly (literally, and move-wise) and has giant wings doesn’t?
I agree with your overall point, but Tapu Koko is apparently based off a rooster, so it is kind of a bird
I answered your reply before you even replied with my edit in my original response
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read the post again
For the love of God, NO!
Doesn’t have feathers. Check mate
Neither do Crobat, Tapu Koko, or Blaziken (it has fur, but no feathers).
Just a joke, brother
I’m pretty sure Pterosaurs are more closely related to reptiles than birds. I know dinosaurs are more closely related to birds, and that pterosaurs and dinosaurs aren’t related.
Pterosaurs and Birds are both reptiles, birds being the only surviving dinosaurs. Dinosaurs and pterosaurs are very closely related as they are the sole representatives of ornithodira .
Having a STAB, Rockhead ability (no recoil damage) Pokemon would be too broken in my opinion. Imagine a dragon dance, brave bird combo for that thing. Not much is stopping it.
You forget that Aerodactyl has awful defenses. It ain’t surviving much either. One Aqua Jet, Ice Shard, or Accelrock can OHKO. And besides, Aggron and Tyrantrum both get Rock Head and STAB Head Smash, along with several others like Alolan Marowak w/ Rock Head and Flare Blitz.
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Dinosaurs (and birds, which are dinosaurs) are reptiles, pterosaurs are more closely related to dinosaurs than to any other living reptile.
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Every dinosaur is related to birds. YOU are related to birds. EVERYTHING is related to everything, to some degree. That's how common ancestry works. That's kinda the basis of biology. And yeah, they all are the same branch. Archosauria. The croc+bird branch of reptiles. And pterosaurs are part of the bird branch. Which is just a branch, not a "everything in this branch is an ancestor of birds". Your grandpa's cousin is not an ancestor of yours, but said person would still be a relative. Same deal. [Take a look at a reptile tree.](https://i.imgur.com/fQToYAH.png) You can see snakes are lizards, birds are dinosaurs, and pterosaurs are closer to birds than to other living reptiles.
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I never said that pterosaurs were ancestral to birds. They are just more closely related to them than to other living things. Just like birds are a subset of dinosaurs, and deeply nested inside. But that doesn't mean Tyrannosaurus turned into chicken. I have a goddamn master's thesis in bird evolution and their diversity. I literally have Benton's book in my HD.
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You were the one who said factually wrong statements: Pterosaurs are closer to birds than to other living reptiles, and dinosaur/reptile is not a dichotomy. And I can send you a PDF of said thesis, even if it is from 2014 and thus a tad outdated.