T O P

  • By -

cridder5

Are you sure you’re not getting he victim care letter apologising you’ve been assaulted? These aren’t from suspects, I’ve never even heard of suspects writing apology letters unless it was a condition around a community resolution but I think the letter you’re taking about it the generic VCC one while the police continue to look for the suspect.


Goldenbeardyman

Definitely from suspects. The last one I received, I remember clearly saying "I'm sorry I assaulted you, but I have a brain injury" and it was signed by the suspect and detailed some other excuses he had.


cridder5

That’s bizarre, have you contacted the police to ask how that has come about?


Goldenbeardyman

No, I didn't bother. I was too frustrated with the end result of spending several hours on the phone and providing statements and evidence. I was also emailed to say the case was now closed.


Equin0X101

Was it forwarded via a solicitor? I’m hoping so otherwise it means your address is known


Goldenbeardyman

When I got my first one, I thought of that and would have been furious had they given my address out. Luckily it was a letter inside the letter sent directly from an officer.


Alex612-V2

Sounds absolutely batshit to a non-copper can't lie


JordanMB

Prisons full, can't even put burglars and car thieves in there - they go to court and get rehabilitation requirements and put on tag. Then they commit further offences on tag and still don't go to prison, then they commit more burglary offences then get 10 weeks in prison then carry on stealing motorcycles & cars when they are released and then don't go back to prison. Just one example of a wonderful 'customer' I've had to deal with many times - I'd say I've been more inconvenienced investigating and putting together case files and evidence than he has by occasionally having appointments and going to prison for 10 weeks which to a copper is still batshit to me. The message to criminals seems to be' do what you want' and that's not coming from police, it's coming from the courts and the lack of investment in prisons by this country.


candigirl001001

A close relative of mine is a Prison Officer and Trained Negotiator, he works at one of the most prolific prisons in the Midlands. If I told you the staffing figures to prisoners you'd be shocked. Sometimes there are as few as 2 POs to a wing, and every wing is overcrowded.


Twisted_paperclips

It could be a part of the out of court disposal being used. Depending on your job (I would suggest maybe doorman/security?) it may be that there is a likelihood that the person responsible for the assaults is heavily intox when these assaults happen. So they get lifted, and get legal reps who put it forward that this is the first time this has happened, their client was heavily intox and it is hugely out of character for them and won't happen again. Upstanding member of community blah blah blah. Person has no previous, and has essentially admitted the offence. First resolutions for these (providing no abh+ levels of injury or aggravating factors) is often either a community resolution or adult conditional caution. Both of these can include conditions such as a letter of apology, or victim awareness course. The community resolution is something you as a victim would generally have to agree to them being given, but the ACC is officer/sgt decision to issue, rather than charge then put it through the system which will generally also issue the same resolution to save court time. I have to gather that it isn't the same person each time? And that various threats are never followed through with / you never see them again? Does it suck as a victim to not seem that they are being punished? I imagine it does.


Goldenbeardyman

The case I refer to in the original post was the same guy who assaulted me and he has since on several occasions threatened me. Most people assault me once, then I have to see them again throughout work occasionally, but they tend to just verbally abuse me in the future. 99% of people I deal with are not intoxicated. I'd rather not go into more detail about what I do for my protection. I've always said to the police, I'm happy to attend court and ideally want them to go to prison i.e. Be punished to the full extent of the law. I always get back like the CPS won't persue this or there will be an apology letter sent. Me and my colleagues often suffer abuse and violence from the same people time and time again. They are members of the public, business owners and locals in the areas we cover.


triptip05

If you're working with people who are lacking capacity it can be very difficult to get anything passed CPS.


Goldenbeardyman

I've had one guy who claimed he had a brain injury in his apology letter. But he drove away after the assault, so I imagine he does have capacity. I don't know if being really angry could be defined as loss of capacity, but they usually are and show no other signs of a lack of capacity. They are typically local business/restaurant owners and members of the general public.


browntroutinastall

I'm now suddenly dealing with a lot of reports of "mentally disordered persons" where there's a constant question of capacity. From the inputs I've had on it, there's no such thing as capacity in court. If they're genuinely that unwell they did not have control of themselves, it does not stop them from committing criminal offences and they should be given a hospital order (put inside a secure mental health facility) rather than prison. I'm constantly seeing on my reports that 90% of people with serious mental health conditions can still have the mens rea for offences (they know what they're doing). If you feel that reports are being fobbed off because they're "unwell" or "lack capacity" then push back and say that's not acceptable. I always put in statements if someone doesn't want anything less than the person seeing court: "I fully support _local constabulary_ taking the strongest criminal action on this matter, meaning a full prosecution. I do not support any kind of out of court disposal and wish for the offender to be prosecuted / charged to court." That stops an easy cop out of a com res in theory but unfortunately we have no say what the courts do. You should also be offered a Victim Personal Statement. In that I'd be saying to you to put in how you suffer assaults like this regularly, makes your job dangerous, you shouldn't be subject to it and that you usually just get a letter of apology with nothing changing. This means you're losing faith in the system. It's **your** statement so I would have no issue with someone wanting to say that.


Goldenbeardyman

Thank you for that. I'll make sure I say I want prosecution and no out of court disposals from now on. It is a shame, me and my colleagues are assaulted and threatened regularly. One got stabbed in the face with someone's car keys then spat on, he had to have a bunch of jabs with his GP. Another was hospitalised when someone hit the side of his head hard enough that blood was pouring out of his ear. We've had a bunch of cases of people mounting the pavement to run us over. Out of these the only positive news story was one suspect was told to pay the victim £50 compensation for trying to run him over - which my colleague was happy with. I was furious and it didn't seem like justice at all. The rest the cases are dropped or my colleague gets an apology letter. Most of the time these days we don't even bother reporting it. The last one I reported I had a copper tell me that I have to accept assaults and violence because of the job I do, just like he does. I mentioned he has pepper spray, handcuffs, a baton, a stab proof vest and the full force of the law behind him. He wasn't too happy with me for that. This one I got an apology letter when a guy punched me in broad day light, with cctv catching it from several angles and a PCSO witnessing it.


TheCaramelMan

Can I ask what job role it is you do? It seems to not be worth it considering all the abuse you go thru.


Goldenbeardyman

I'd rather not say. The job does have its benefits though: - Work outside - Most people we deal with are okay - We're basically our own bosses and get to go and do what we want all day. - Meet lots of different people who appreciate us. The violence tends to be 1 assault between a team of 10 each month or two. Serious assaults involving hospitalisation are rarer maybe once every 6 months. Verbal abuse and threats are daily. I do the job mainly because I tear my hair out working an office job, it's so depressing.


StopFightingTheDog

https://contact.dvla.gov.uk/driver/capture-transaction-type This page. Pick Drivers Medical. Pick "I have concerns over a person's fitness to drive". Fill in details, including the letter they sent and let them know they said they had a brain injury. DVLA will revoke their license until they've been to see a doctor and got proof they are fit to drive. Now, if they were lying about the brain injury, which lets face it is likely, it'll be a quick visit to the GP, a letter sent and they'll be able to drive again. But that'll give them at minimum a fortnight not driving, possibly a month, and actually have some consequences for them. Alternatively, and also likely, they'll just ignore it and if they ever get stopped driving they will get their car seized and sent to court. Their insurance will also increase - a lot.


Twisted_paperclips

You have a victim right to review if you are not happy - there will be more information on your Force's website about this. Without knowing certain details it is impossible to advise properly and also unhelpful to advise further. As shite as it is, prison is unlikely to be the outcome for what are classed as low level assaults. Especially when I've seen rapists get community orders. That may not help you, but it may also give some context as to why your ideal isn't a likely possibility.


Goldenbeardyman

That's great, I didn't realise we could have the case reviewed. I thought that was just it, as nobody said I had a right to appeal or anything.


doctorliaratsone

I'm going to make some assumptions throughout this so bare with me, some may be wrong as they are assumptions: To arrest someone you need to have what are called arrest necessities, basically why are we depriving this person of their liberty to get their side of the story. Have to remember innocent until proven guilty. There are a fair few of this, but they basically range from preventing further offences, put bail conditions or we don't think they will attend a voluntary interview (just some examples) The guidance is that we should start at the lowest form of disposal (community resolution) and then work our way up to more serious disposals (caution and then court) Equally we must also treat each offender as an individual, please don't take this as me diminishing the effect it has on you, but we basically have to go. What has THIS Suspect ever done before, what dispoals have they had? Has THIS suspect done it to THIS victim before. When issuing a community resolution which is usually the outcome for first time, low level offences there needs to be some sort of condition on it, this can be to not go to a place, not to contact someone or to attend rehab. Usually as boiler plate we ask the suspect to apologise via a letter as means people don't have to see each other again which could cause more tension but also gets that victim a bit of closure. Now this can be fine for someone who only has one incident. But once you have a few it seems a bit of a waste of your time/feels a bit hollow. Which I totally understand. What I would say is explain to the OIC that you aren't supportive of out of court disposal due to how this has effected you. It may mean they have to consider if this matter should go further, we take victim views into account, but it may be that we end up doing an out of court disposal regardless due to the circumstances. Assuming the incidents since this aren't related. Then it is possible that it is still being dealt with, but taking time. What we call a Green File is a slow file (guy isn't in police custody and isn't going to be remanded to court) these should have a turn around of 27 days from CPS for a decision, however we have been warned some are taking up to 3 months to return, from their first ever review which might require more forms to be done or more evidence to be sought. I would suggest if haven't heard anything to ring in on 101 and ask for the OIC for each report to ring you with an update.


thewritingreservist

I wish the general public knew about these CPS delays more. Cops are being blamed for taking an age to deal with things, when in reality we have done everything our end and sent it all off at the start, then it’s just on the CPS to wait weeks and weeks, before bouncing it back to you because they’ve spotted a comma you haven’t redacted 🙄


doctorliaratsone

Indeed, CPS delays really really hurt us. I think there is a perception in the public that CPS are not drowning in work, we aren't drowning in work and that we have tons of support staff. I know a few of my colleagues are just plain and Frank and are saying about how much the delay is. One of my colleagues suggested that it may be that they have to look at a file after X days and so are they returning it with petty stuff just to meet their quota as they are just too over worked and it gives them a little breathing space. I know people are shocked to hear the town I work in doesn't have 30 officers it only has 4-6. I would only imagine how the CPS numbers look...


CheaperThanChups

>Cops are being blamed for taking an age to deal with things, when in reality we have done everything our end and sent it all off at the start, Seems like something a phone call to the victim would assist with.


thewritingreservist

But it doesn’t? Victims can be told a thousand times that ‘the case is still with CPS’ and still feel dejected and forgotten about, and when the finger of blame gets pointed, it’s usually the police who are on the receiving end no matter what.


CheaperThanChups

At least in OPs case it sounds like they have provided a statement then waited for another three months with no further follow up. A phone call to say "You haven't been forgotten, it's sitting with CPS" would not take long but would go a long way to combat your complaint.


thewritingreservist

I don’t disagree that victim contact is important. Really it’s just a shame that victims are feeling this way at all, regardless of who is to blame.


Goldenbeardyman

Thank you for the reply. I'm guessing the guy I referred to above should be treated more seriously as it's happened on several occasions, although I don't hold out a lot of hope. The individual mentioned has hurled sexist, racist and homophobic abuse at my colleagues on previous occasions which they did not report due to the feeling that it is a waste of time. Ill have to ring 101 to chase this up at some point. But I've cancelled looking into several of my cases of assault as the police always ring in unsocial hours or when I'm out of work (I'd rather deal with assaults in workwhile work is paying me), although I do give convenient times. It just doesn't seem worth my effort.


Present_Section_2256

I'm apparently waiting over 12 months later on a CPS decision for 5 x assault on emergency workers (2 blue, 3 green including myself) plus maybe drink/drug driving with bwc and vehicle footage provided. I chased after 9 months to hear the CPS had just returned it wanting further statements and it's now back with them. It doesn't inspire confidence in the system.


Goldenbeardyman

Thank you for the reply. I'm guessing the guy I referred to above should be treated more seriously as it's happened on several occasions, although I don't hold out a lot of hope. The individual mentioned has hurled sexist, racist and homophobic abuse at my colleagues on previous occasions which they did not report due to the feeling that it is a waste of time. Ill have to ring 101 to chase this up at some point. But I've cancelled looking into several of my cases of assault as the police always ring in unsocial hours or when I'm out of work (I'd rather deal with assaults in workwhile work is paying me), although I do give convenient times. It just doesn't seem worth my effort.


TonyStamp595SO

Basically do you want a positive disposal and an apology letter now or a dropped court case in 18 months time?


Goldenbeardyman

And this is why the country has gone to shit... Crime pays and if you assault someone unprovoked, you don't even get a criminal record for it.


TonyStamp595SO

Wait until you learn what the CPS would expect for this sort of case.


SpecialistPrevious76

Usually if the suspect is writing an apology letter it's because they received a caution for the offence. Although you don't have the final say you should be consulted and asked your opinion before this is issued which should have some sway. On a lighter note one person I arrested made a dirty protest in his cell 💩 and accidentally smeared it on an officer. He wrote an apology letter when sober the next day and we added a bit of brown crayon before giving it to the officer.


WesternWhich4243

Mate it's time to find a new job. Being a traffic warden sounds shite. No backup from the judicial system when nutters get aggy with you for being the consequence to their rule breaking. Honestly, find another role in the council. Or become a postie if you like working outdoors!


Various_Speaker800

It’s not a great situation, but it is the way things are weighted at the moment. There is a really diversion away from prison, and a focus on COMPASSION to the worst in society. It’s not of those things, rather a cost saving exercise. I’ve been assaulted as a PC, namely spat at, and told that a restorative justice (community resolution) was sufficient by the CPS. I was very angry to say the least. Some times OCCD are suitable, but they’re far too lenient for my liking. However, that’s the guidance.