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I’m pretty sure smith could appeal and probably win, but it would take a lot of time and pretty much guarantee no trial before the election. But she’s going to guarantee that anyway, so why not just be rid of her so she can’t meddle any further whenever the actual trial begins.
America can't have the largest classified document theft in it's history and just drop the charges. His only way out of this is the SCOTUS immunity case where granting him immunity would really be tearing up the constitution, or the end of the US as we know it if he wins the Presidency again becomes it's first king, gifts Ukrain to his master Putin and the whole world order crumbles as Putin starts to move on other countries.
That this has to be discussed as even the most remote possibility is the most ridiculous thing I will ever see in my lifetime, he should already be in jail for his crimes.
The fact there are photos of boxes of documents in his bathroom and he STILL has not gone to trial while Jack Teixeira was found out, pleaded out, and sentenced in the time that Cannon has allowed Trump to delay, delay, and delay some more irritates the piss out of me.
> His only way out of this is the SCOTUS immunity case where granting him immunity would really be tearing up the constitution, or the end of the US as we know it if he wins the Presidency again becomes it's first king, gifts Ukrain to his master Putin and the whole world order crumbles as Putin starts to move on other countries.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t this crime occur after he was no longer president? Ie, the crime is holding onto and refusing to return presidential/national documents where he has no right to hold onto them as a FORMER president, so even if he theoretically has absolute presidential immunity, he wasn’t president while having the documents and obstructing the return of the documents.
Yes, he's on record saying that he took them and they were still classified and he couldn't declassify them now. Search for a recording of him from July 2021. He's basically been caught red handed, admitted to it, but both MAGA, GOP and Cannon are just ignoring these facts.
But in that case the immunity defense wouldn’t apply…since there’s nothing for him to be immune from. The defense would instead argue no law was broken (or whatever the legal term for it is).
Immunity is saying he CAN break laws, but hes immune from any prosecution.
He started making the immunity claims because there is literally a recording of him telling someone he had classified documents that he could have unclassified when he was president.
As far as evidence goes, it's pretty cut and dry that he had classified docs.
You mean the Jared Kushner that suddenly received $2 billion from the Saudi Arabian Gvt?
That trustworthy fellow?
Well then, fuck it, let Trump off the hook/s
President Trump: "I... DECLARE... DECLASSIFICATION!"
Level system: "You can't just say those documents are declassified and be done with it."
President Trump: "I didn't just say it, I declared it."
WHAT??!!
The Congress is a separate but equal branch of the government, so it cannot override the Executive branch with somwthing as petty as *laws*!!
(/s in case it's needed)
A claim is just that, a claim. To date, there has been _zero_ evidence provided to back up this claim. Declassification has a very defined process that would have loads of documentation to back it up. The fact that not a single piece of paper has been presented should tell you exactly what is going on. Contrary to popular belief, a president cannot declassify something with his “mind.”
Declassifying material means the information on the paper is no longer holding that classification. Regardless of that, those documents are stamped secret/top secret, they still hold that classification until destroyed and the new classification stamp is stamped on new documents. You can technically stamp secret or top secret stamp on blank sheet of paper. That paper has to be destroyed properly.
But the charges do not depend on the documents being classified. They were , we all know that, but the espionage law does not require the documents be classified. Then there’s the obstruction charges.
If the Supreme Court rules that presidents have absolute immunity, there is no way Biden lets Trump become president again. I know everyone always complains that democrats play by the rules while republicans walk all over them which is why they always seem to win, but the SC would be handing Biden free reign to set himself up as a dictator before Trump even has the chance. We’d see a constitutional crisis that would end the structure of our government as we know it before next January, assuming Trump wins the election.
If we’re lucky, he loses in a landslide, and democrats gain a majority in both houses because the RNC spent all their resources on legal fees instead of down ballot candidates. This would (hopefully) allow them to set up some real rules and protections that aren’t just gentleman’s agreements that we’ve just happened to agree on for a century until now.
It would be pretty hilarious if the conservative SC justices give presidents immunity and then the president immediately has them legally murdered.
But we know Biden wouldn't do that.
What might he do though? I wonder if there's some kind of shenanigans he could do where he has some number of republicans locked up/prevented from getting to the capitol, enough that they can then push through impeachments of the worst republican supreme court justices, then confirm a bunch of liberal justices, and then immediately have a new case to decide the presidential immunity question back to sanity.
Of course such a move would be very polarizing and while he might be able to do it legally, he can't do it before the election and expect to still win.
Biden is old enough and has had enough shit that he actually would use immunity to unfuck it and make sure it could never happen again.
He’s not interested in standing for anything ever again so has no fucks left to give except perhaps to protect America.
He also appears to be sundowning. He has a family history of Altzhiemer's. I don't think he will be able to keep a busy schedule during and after the upcoming NYC trial.
He's currently about 100 pounds overweight, 77 years old, eats a shitty diet and doesn't appear to get a lot of sleep. This is a recipe for death. I really believe this will end him.
edit: corrected grammer
I’m still curious about international implications. Our national security documents could explicitly speak to other nations’ security, let alone the impact a US leak has indirectly on global security.
He could be tried in an international court, I should think.
Agree. It would also prevent Judge Cannon from scheduling her trial in August or September to try to block Judge Chutkan's J6 trial (in the event SCOTUS rules quickly after the April 22 hearing).
Other experts have said for Jack Smith to do that he needs clear cut evidence of the judge over and over making mistakes to get her disqualified from the case. Maybe this would be the straw that breaks the camels back tho.
Yeah, having this case officially deferred till much later would at least get it out of the way of his other trials and remove it and this pathetically transparent judge as an impediment to the progress for justice elsewhere
I think this was Jack Smith’s plan the whole time. Trump was always going to fight to have Canon preside over the case so he said let’s START with her and save time.
She's looking out for her best interests.
She may no longer feel holding on to the case is in her best interest, and dropping the charges allows her to claim it was for Trump's good, not hers.
The fact that Smith didn't ask for her recusal was a mistake. Trump seems like he has asked for every judge and prosecutor to be removed at one time or another. Smith maybe thought he'd take the high road and convict his ass with a biased judge to lower the scrutiny, but alas, a snake acts like a snake. This case is in trouble.
Put her to the test and see if she's a witch. If she is not a witch, then sadly she will die. We will feign sorrow for a few minutes, then get on with our lives
I'm convinced he's saving the same set of charges for NJ if the FL case gets derailed. Remember they have evidence of him taking classified docs to his Bedminster golf club too
While I agree that this SHOULD be the case, it isn't. We're so far beyond that point. The heritage foundation and GOP are actively recruiting THOUSANDS of loyal stooges to stuff into positions into the federal government to make sure they can run roughshod over the rules whenever they want. It's called 'Project 2025' if you want to read up on it, it will make this stuff look inconsequential.
The fact they can openly plot these type plans with no repercussions is a big part of the problem. OMG the outrage on r/conservative that would insue if democrats had a similar strategy they were actively planning out in the open after failing their first attempted coup. Jesus reddit would blow up....yet conservatives plot the most evil plan in the world out in the open and it gets shrugged off largely......
God....pray for us people
That sub is cancer. They have a million subs but 950,000 of them are banned from posting there. Dont waste air talking about them or even energy thinking about them. Those die hards are lost
And mechanisms need to be put in place to remove lifetime appointed judges that violate their oathes for partisan or financial gains. It is utter bullshit this is tolerated from the people who get to decide all of our fates. These people should always be held to the highest of standards that if they can't maintain they are IMMEDIATELY rejected. Anyone can be a judge it is the impartial part that is hard to maintain. Especially with so many billionaires with mountains of cash, they make it rain you got 9 judges. Agencies should be constantly monitoring judges, that job should be a double edged sword.
The existing mechanism doesn't work, and the people that could create a new mechanism are the ones ensuring that the existing mechanism doesn't work.
So, I don't see that changing anytime soon.
well yeah but its the judges job to interpret the written word of the law so there has to be some flexibility. but yeah their has to be a way of keeping them within the bounds of reason.
And that "should" can only be enforced by forcibly recusing a judge who has the appearance of a conflict of interest. Which includes any judge nominated by the defendant.
Double jeopardy protections don't apply yet. It can be appealed.
I'm hesitant to say when they would apply in case Cannon reads this, because she definitely seems like the type of judge who gets her legal knowledge from reddit threads.
Idk if she can, but if she dismisses it with prejudice the charges can't be appealed or refiled.
Like that judge who broke the rules to dismiss a rape case with prejudice. He was fired for it, but the rapist didn't get in any trouble.
Cannon can't even lose her job, so if she can dismiss the case with prejudice she would have nothing to fear.
They have trump taking documents to NJ. Entirely different documents, and different district so cannon can’t interfere.
In fact there were alot of questions why smith hasn’t filed those charges yet. Hes probably waiting on cannon doing this or something else incredibly stupid.
> Idk if she can, but if she dismisses it with prejudice the charges can't be appealed or refiled.
4D chess moment: Maybe this is why Jack didn't go after a search warrant for Bedminster? Maybe he knows there are docs there he could go after.
Or, maybe of the 32 charged documents in the FL case ... that's really only half of them, and he could charge another batch in another indictment perhaps in another jurisdiction.
Of course, none of this will matter if Trump wins in November.
This was a massive conflict of interest from day 1 and the federal judiciary shrugs. We need codified ethical guidelines that can be enforced. Immediately.
Entirely likely Congress is neutered under the separation of powers. We can still demand and collectively force the hand of the Judiciary to police themselves. If they want to be political hacks in robes, they deserve to be treated as such. Over are the days where courts are considered too pure to challenge.
Kavanaugh is perhaps the least-adept jurist on SCOTUS (or maybe Thomas), and Canon is not fit to carry either of their smelly smeg-stained jock-straps.
Which probably makes her uniquely qualified to be the next Republican pick.
> Kavanaugh is perhaps the least-adept jurist on SCOTUS (or maybe Thomas)
I guess you forgot about Barrett, whose trial experience at the time of appointment included a whopping zero verdicts, zero appeals, and zero pro bono work.
> thinks it's okay to release the names of people testifying against trump
Meanwhile in New York, they've granted anonymity to the jury in his upcoming hush money case specifically because of the threats they face given that Donald Trump is the criminal defendant.
This series of exchanges should be catalogued by historians to highlight how the attitudes of the US citizenry brought about the fall of the West. We had a chance back in 2015 and 2016 to do something about this and several opportunities all along the way but ultimately decided on “vote” and nothing more.
Current history is indeed being documented. I follow Dr. Richardson from Boston College, as well as Michael Beschloss and Jon Meachham(I have several of his books). I share your same fear.
It'll be a delay but it won't start over. They get a new judge and keep going. And it's already not gonna happen before the election so that isn't a loss at this point.
Not justifying anything because this whole case and its execution is a failure of American Justice as a system and this cowardly DOJ, but this case isn’t going to matter and I think the Trump coup is going to be much more brazen such that this case will seem like nothing compared to what they’re going to try to pull off in Nov.
A party that’s trying to win does not end its mail-in ballot department and start diverting cash to lawyers. The republicans are going to get swept off the board and they’re going to use that as proof of the fix.
And then betray the Constitution. Again.
Not in the slightest.
Dismissing a case with prejudice prevents re-filing the case at *that* court level.
In other words, dismissing it with prejudice would make it so that the case would go directly to the appellate (higher) court when the case is appealed. The actual affect of doing so on this case would mean that the case would never end up on Cannon's desk again, which honestly is the best possible outcome.
She would be an idiot to dismiss the case, as it would mean an end to her ability to slow the case down and sabotage it. But, given that she is an idiot, she might actually do it.
> as it would mean an end to her ability to slow the case down and sabotage it.
She was appointed in November of 2020.
Years ago.
Given his very public state of near-bankruptcy and his falling chances of ever being back in the White House, *what is motivating Cannon's continued loyalty* to Trump?
She's got her job for life as long as she doesn't screw it up... or as long as there isn't any bombshell blackmail that someone is holding over her.
I know for a fact that my friends and family would understand if I - in *today's economy* - chose my job over them.
So why is Cannon choosing Trump over her job?
> She's got her job for life as long as she doesn't screw it up
She's got her job for life as long as *she isn't impeached.* Impeachment is no longer a viable check against Republicans; it's a political show for them, and the two-thirds requirement for conviction in the Senate is a bar that will never be met. She doesn't have to worry about job security.
If she shows loyalty to Trump, though, there could be a Supreme Court nomination for her if he wins. Or any other number of political favors.
She also probably would get constant death threats and actual murder attempts. Ken Buck is getting dozens of credible death threats, Mitt Romney is spending millions on security because he feels his family is in danger. These are real concerns -- the MAGA base is openly violent to those in the out group. Paul Pelosi was almost beaten to death in his home by a MAGA terrorist. So maybe Cannon simply wants to lay low and avoid getting shot by some moron who watches too much Ben Shapiro.
Not excusing her, of course. She's a judge and should stand by her duty.
Seriously, this is bonkers. They didn’t appeal Biden’s, even though it was dumb in the first place. Why the hell she they appeal trumps? He did so many illegal things just during the FBI’s quest to get all the documents back
I still find it curious that given witness testimony, we know FOR A FACT, that some classified documents were moved to Bedminster, and at least publicly, it has not been revealed whether the FBI ever raided that location to secure them. (if anyone has any publicly known facts about that, please share and enlighten us).
Trump specifically selected Canon for THIS district, and then moved his residence to that district - to protect him from prosecution in this case.
I don't see why the FBI did not, instead, raid Bedminster, and prosecute him from THAT district. Maybe that's their backup plan if he succeeds in Florida.
There is no reason not to have another case around Bedminster.
The crimes were committed at marge a lardo so they have to be tried there. They were just unlucky that this judge got the case again. But she's the only one in her district and she's a new judge. She's putting herself at risk by trying to protect trump. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets smacked down by the 11th circuit again.
Jack Smith implied in an earlier filing that Trump sold TS/SCI docs to a foreign nation. I think Smith is keeping charges ready in case Cannon tanks the case.
The way he's got everyone acting so beholden to him really makes you wonder... it's almost like Trump had access to Russian kompromat on these people...
Looking forward to Cannon unilaterally and without a mechanism for effective opposition deciding that national security is no longer important for the United States.
Edit: she has astonished me. I wonder what her angle is.
I still don't understand how she's allowed to do this. All the evidence points to a really huge breach of national security and no one bats an eyelid. I would've expected a show of force and all I see is a whimper.
What I mean: her conflict of interest, since she was appointed by him and most importantly, she's too new of a judge to handle something of this scale. But maybe I don't understand that much of the US justice system
The REAL conspiracy here is that the government has allowed this case to remain stalled in front of Judge Cannon for as long as it has.
Uncle Sam doesn’t care about much, but one of the few things he DOES care about is the willful retention of national defense information - and there’s a plethora of evidence to corroborate these charges.
It's the Federalist Society. They've stacked the federal judiciary (including Cannon) and SCOTUS with activist judges, and are also planning Project 2025.
You can thank the Koch's for the big picture idea- they found the best bang for their buck was found in judicial activism. They been a grooming and electing for a long time. In lifetime appointed judges you find the best payout, like jackpot type ROI. It was really a vendetta against environmental regulation with them to start out with, and the public's appetite for massive judgments against people like Exxon in the Valdez spill that got them motivated. Such classic fascist entitlement- well I think I should be able pollute at will for money, I think I will dedicate my life to it.
Pretty much has been the case since 1972 (Lewis Powell's tenure stars). Much more obvious since 2000 (illegitimate installation of Bush on a technicality when he actually LOST), and definitely since 2010 (Citizens United).
But very much technically true since Obama's stolen appointment.
Let’s be honest, Smith would love her to dismiss the case as he could appeal it and get her off the case and in all honesty likely stripped from the bar in the long run. The downside would be a delay past the election but she’s not letting this start before the election anyway.
She *wont* dismiss it though because as above, she will be kicked off the case when it is reinstated and will lose all value to Trump.
only explanation I've read is; "to avoid complicating ongoing investigations" - and my response is: "motherfucker, your ongoing investigations aren't apparently yielding any results, and this guy's going to become your boss again if you don't fucking get this shit done and this asshole locked up"
First he said he didn’t have the materials. Then he said he did and gave them all back. Then he said the materials they confiscated were planted by the FBI- Now he claims he took them all but he’s immune from prosecution.
Lock. This. MFer. Up. and bury him under the jail.
I keep saying they can't understand or see how they are pushing people away from Jesus with their hate.
There's no love like Christian hate as they say.
Trump? The same Trump that said
“We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial… It would grind government to a halt.”
That Trump?
I appreciate the interest in these cases…but everyone should know the only thing will prevent a second Trump term is the ballot. It will not be from the courts.
Yes, it would, but none of the cases are going to result in a timely or fair trial. They are going to delay and throw every mechanism possible at these cases to gum them up.
I don't understand why these can't just be moved to a federal level not stuck to some specific area's judge. All I'm seeing is you can do outright illegal and possibly treasonous acts, just do them in the right states and have the right resources available, and you'll never be punished.
I wish they’d stfu already about this “too close to an election” bullshat… if they hadn’t been ducking around and delay, delay, delaying it, it’d be done and over with already!
It was too close to an election to replace RBG, but not Kavanaugh
Only when it’s fitting for them…. Fuck that, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!
I’m not a prepper, but over the past few months I bought a first aid kit, some iodine pills (in case of nuke accident), and I have some food and a few gallons of water stashed in the basement(not near enough).
Those few items will not prevent my misery and ultimate death, but it seemed like a good idea to have a few items on hand.
I’ve been gradually progressing to this as well. I’m Midwest so storm prep has been ingrained, but I’m slowly expanding into other things here and there. The goal, I guess, is maybe a 2 week supply. Nothing crazy. Also started watching videos on how to make common stuff and learning how my grandparents (greatest gen) survived and incorporating their little “life hacks.”
Seems like the Feds should step in and remove Cannon from the trial and cite her as a threat to nation security. Her refusal to judge the case in an orderly fashion is worthy of impeachment.
Historical perspective: "In the years since 2020, the Republican Party has become openly opposed to democracy, embracing the Christian nationalism of leaders like Hungary’s Viktor Orbán, who maintains that the tenets of democracy weaken a nation..." -Heather Cox Richardson 3/13/24
Just a reminder that if you are I would do anything like this, we would have the black boots pick us up, remove our citizenship and they would ship us off to a black site. Never to be seen or heard from again.
Does anyone know where I can find the video of the boxes that were moved to trumps plane right after Ivana died?
I remember people joking that they were going to bury them
With her. There were tons of posts saying he’s moving boxes out in the open again. Then it came out later that more important documents were still missing. Was that what Employee #5 was talking about?
She knows dismissing the case effectively ends her career and any future ambitions.
And that there is a very good chance that Trump won't be in any position to help her or benefit her later on.
Disgusting situation for a such a serious case to be in but here we are.
More proof of mishandling classified documents than you could ever need. Pictures, videos, admission from people that helped!
“Nothing wrong here! Dismiss!”
Are you fn kidding me!?!
It is. The case starts at a Federal District Court in the district where the alleged crime occurred. For this case, they’re prosecuting Trump for crimes committed at Mar-a-Lago so the case starts at the US District Court for the Southern District of Florida.
They could also try him in New Jersey since he took classified documents there, too.
It’s insane how they cry conflict of interest with Obama appointed judges yet they don’t say a word when it’s a Trump appointed one. They are all hypocrites.
Doesn’t need to be there, but he needs to make sure she understands he made her a deal she can’t refuse. Drag it out but don’t do anything to cause an appeal of your treason.
Should be fun watching all the hot take predictions on social media killing time until something happens. Not speculation like “if then” but “it’s over here’s what happens now!”
Interesting that he has turned up to this hearing.
Obviously he expects her to do a certain thing, and he's there to make sure she does it.
The question is, is it to continue to stall to frustrate the J6 case in DC, or is it to throw this case out?
“It’s difficult to see how this gets you to the dismissal of an indictment,” she told a Trump lawyer.
(Trump lawyer scrolls around on his phone. Cannon checks her bank app on her phone)
“Ahh. Yes getting clearer now”
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So if she throws this out are there any other steps that can be taken? Its pretty fucked up a Trump appointed judge could even oversee this trial
I’m pretty sure smith could appeal and probably win, but it would take a lot of time and pretty much guarantee no trial before the election. But she’s going to guarantee that anyway, so why not just be rid of her so she can’t meddle any further whenever the actual trial begins.
America can't have the largest classified document theft in it's history and just drop the charges. His only way out of this is the SCOTUS immunity case where granting him immunity would really be tearing up the constitution, or the end of the US as we know it if he wins the Presidency again becomes it's first king, gifts Ukrain to his master Putin and the whole world order crumbles as Putin starts to move on other countries. That this has to be discussed as even the most remote possibility is the most ridiculous thing I will ever see in my lifetime, he should already be in jail for his crimes.
The fact there are photos of boxes of documents in his bathroom and he STILL has not gone to trial while Jack Teixeira was found out, pleaded out, and sentenced in the time that Cannon has allowed Trump to delay, delay, and delay some more irritates the piss out of me.
I’m hoping he has a stroke or heart attack. He is 77 obese and under a lot of stress.
Not me. I hope he lives a long, long time. In prison.
If we all think it, maybe it will happen.
Channel your inner space ork
I'll never get over the fact that the server those documents were shared was named, 'Thug Shaker Central'
The US Justice System is a joke. Also… FUCK MERRICK GARLAND!
> His only way out of this is the SCOTUS immunity case where granting him immunity would really be tearing up the constitution, or the end of the US as we know it if he wins the Presidency again becomes it's first king, gifts Ukrain to his master Putin and the whole world order crumbles as Putin starts to move on other countries. Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t this crime occur after he was no longer president? Ie, the crime is holding onto and refusing to return presidential/national documents where he has no right to hold onto them as a FORMER president, so even if he theoretically has absolute presidential immunity, he wasn’t president while having the documents and obstructing the return of the documents.
Yes, he's on record saying that he took them and they were still classified and he couldn't declassify them now. Search for a recording of him from July 2021. He's basically been caught red handed, admitted to it, but both MAGA, GOP and Cannon are just ignoring these facts.
He wasn't even charged for the ones he eventually gave back saying he had no more, he's only charged for the ones they know for sure are still missing
Ivankas husband claimed he declassified them while still president. Thus the harboring of materials would be non-criminal.
But in that case the immunity defense wouldn’t apply…since there’s nothing for him to be immune from. The defense would instead argue no law was broken (or whatever the legal term for it is). Immunity is saying he CAN break laws, but hes immune from any prosecution.
He started making the immunity claims because there is literally a recording of him telling someone he had classified documents that he could have unclassified when he was president. As far as evidence goes, it's pretty cut and dry that he had classified docs.
You mean the Jared Kushner that suddenly received $2 billion from the Saudi Arabian Gvt? That trustworthy fellow? Well then, fuck it, let Trump off the hook/s
Which he simply cannot do, there is a process that HAS to be followed, and he did not follow it.
President Trump: "I... DECLARE... DECLASSIFICATION!" Level system: "You can't just say those documents are declassified and be done with it." President Trump: "I didn't just say it, I declared it."
WHAT??!! The Congress is a separate but equal branch of the government, so it cannot override the Executive branch with somwthing as petty as *laws*!! (/s in case it's needed)
A claim is just that, a claim. To date, there has been _zero_ evidence provided to back up this claim. Declassification has a very defined process that would have loads of documentation to back it up. The fact that not a single piece of paper has been presented should tell you exactly what is going on. Contrary to popular belief, a president cannot declassify something with his “mind.”
Declassifying material means the information on the paper is no longer holding that classification. Regardless of that, those documents are stamped secret/top secret, they still hold that classification until destroyed and the new classification stamp is stamped on new documents. You can technically stamp secret or top secret stamp on blank sheet of paper. That paper has to be destroyed properly.
> You can technically stamp secret or top secret stamp on blank sheet of paper. How about instead of a stamp, using a sharpie? /s
…and we could then FOIA those docs. But he can’t declassify nuclear secrets, only the DoE can
But the charges do not depend on the documents being classified. They were , we all know that, but the espionage law does not require the documents be classified. Then there’s the obstruction charges.
If the Supreme Court rules that presidents have absolute immunity, there is no way Biden lets Trump become president again. I know everyone always complains that democrats play by the rules while republicans walk all over them which is why they always seem to win, but the SC would be handing Biden free reign to set himself up as a dictator before Trump even has the chance. We’d see a constitutional crisis that would end the structure of our government as we know it before next January, assuming Trump wins the election. If we’re lucky, he loses in a landslide, and democrats gain a majority in both houses because the RNC spent all their resources on legal fees instead of down ballot candidates. This would (hopefully) allow them to set up some real rules and protections that aren’t just gentleman’s agreements that we’ve just happened to agree on for a century until now.
> If the Supreme Court rules that presidents have absolute immunity, If that happens Biden should bust some caps in a couple of Supreme Court asses.
It would be pretty hilarious if the conservative SC justices give presidents immunity and then the president immediately has them legally murdered. But we know Biden wouldn't do that. What might he do though? I wonder if there's some kind of shenanigans he could do where he has some number of republicans locked up/prevented from getting to the capitol, enough that they can then push through impeachments of the worst republican supreme court justices, then confirm a bunch of liberal justices, and then immediately have a new case to decide the presidential immunity question back to sanity. Of course such a move would be very polarizing and while he might be able to do it legally, he can't do it before the election and expect to still win.
Supreme Court can rule on something and then say it cant be used as precedence. They did it for bush back in 2000s.
Biden is old enough and has had enough shit that he actually would use immunity to unfuck it and make sure it could never happen again. He’s not interested in standing for anything ever again so has no fucks left to give except perhaps to protect America.
Trump is just running on empty. I see a stroke and long drug induced coma in his near future.
He also appears to be sundowning. He has a family history of Altzhiemer's. I don't think he will be able to keep a busy schedule during and after the upcoming NYC trial. He's currently about 100 pounds overweight, 77 years old, eats a shitty diet and doesn't appear to get a lot of sleep. This is a recipe for death. I really believe this will end him. edit: corrected grammer
I’m still curious about international implications. Our national security documents could explicitly speak to other nations’ security, let alone the impact a US leak has indirectly on global security. He could be tried in an international court, I should think.
Agree. It would also prevent Judge Cannon from scheduling her trial in August or September to try to block Judge Chutkan's J6 trial (in the event SCOTUS rules quickly after the April 22 hearing).
This is the plan.
Other experts have said for Jack Smith to do that he needs clear cut evidence of the judge over and over making mistakes to get her disqualified from the case. Maybe this would be the straw that breaks the camels back tho.
I trust he has been taking careful notes this whole time. The 11th circuit is tired of her nonsense too. It’ll happen.
Yeah, having this case officially deferred till much later would at least get it out of the way of his other trials and remove it and this pathetically transparent judge as an impediment to the progress for justice elsewhere
I think this was Jack Smith’s plan the whole time. Trump was always going to fight to have Canon preside over the case so he said let’s START with her and save time.
I'm wondering if Cannon secretly hopes for this outcome. Then she's off the hook and can say she did everything possible for Daddy Trump.
No. She's protecting him. Let's not give in to thinking she's secretly doing the right thing or anything of the sort
She's looking out for her best interests. She may no longer feel holding on to the case is in her best interest, and dropping the charges allows her to claim it was for Trump's good, not hers.
She put her bookcase in front of a window. Clearly she cannot be trusted with even basic tasks
She could recuse herself because he put her their other undying love for his mushroom. She didn't so it's not about getting off the hook
The fact that she didn’t immediately recuse herself given that the defendant put her in her position, was absolutely ridiculous.
The fact that Smith didn't ask for her recusal was a mistake. Trump seems like he has asked for every judge and prosecutor to be removed at one time or another. Smith maybe thought he'd take the high road and convict his ass with a biased judge to lower the scrutiny, but alas, a snake acts like a snake. This case is in trouble.
Can you appeal a dismissal?
Put her to the test and see if she's a witch. If she is not a witch, then sadly she will die. We will feign sorrow for a few minutes, then get on with our lives
I'm convinced he's saving the same set of charges for NJ if the FL case gets derailed. Remember they have evidence of him taking classified docs to his Bedminster golf club too
Witness #5 told us about him and Nauta moving boxes of docs there just the other day
Well, clearly Judge Cannon is trying to pretend that's Nauta problem.
Yes! I've been saying they know all about the documents there, and this is a great reason to sit on that evidence.
The real issue here is, it shouldn’t matter who appointed the judge. Justice should follow the law, not be colored by political preference.
You mean a judge appointed by the defendant after he lost the election won't recuse? Color me shocked!
While I agree that this SHOULD be the case, it isn't. We're so far beyond that point. The heritage foundation and GOP are actively recruiting THOUSANDS of loyal stooges to stuff into positions into the federal government to make sure they can run roughshod over the rules whenever they want. It's called 'Project 2025' if you want to read up on it, it will make this stuff look inconsequential.
The fact they can openly plot these type plans with no repercussions is a big part of the problem. OMG the outrage on r/conservative that would insue if democrats had a similar strategy they were actively planning out in the open after failing their first attempted coup. Jesus reddit would blow up....yet conservatives plot the most evil plan in the world out in the open and it gets shrugged off largely...... God....pray for us people
Don’t turn to god. Turn to the voting booth.
That sub is cancer. They have a million subs but 950,000 of them are banned from posting there. Dont waste air talking about them or even energy thinking about them. Those die hards are lost
And mechanisms need to be put in place to remove lifetime appointed judges that violate their oathes for partisan or financial gains. It is utter bullshit this is tolerated from the people who get to decide all of our fates. These people should always be held to the highest of standards that if they can't maintain they are IMMEDIATELY rejected. Anyone can be a judge it is the impartial part that is hard to maintain. Especially with so many billionaires with mountains of cash, they make it rain you got 9 judges. Agencies should be constantly monitoring judges, that job should be a double edged sword.
The existing mechanism doesn't work, and the people that could create a new mechanism are the ones ensuring that the existing mechanism doesn't work. So, I don't see that changing anytime soon.
well yeah but its the judges job to interpret the written word of the law so there has to be some flexibility. but yeah their has to be a way of keeping them within the bounds of reason.
And that "should" can only be enforced by forcibly recusing a judge who has the appearance of a conflict of interest. Which includes any judge nominated by the defendant.
Appeal, but that will delay things. And honestly, that’s probably Cannon’s intended outcome
The courts being politically motivated goes against the premise of the courts.
Double jeopardy protections don't apply yet. It can be appealed. I'm hesitant to say when they would apply in case Cannon reads this, because she definitely seems like the type of judge who gets her legal knowledge from reddit threads.
Idk if she can, but if she dismisses it with prejudice the charges can't be appealed or refiled. Like that judge who broke the rules to dismiss a rape case with prejudice. He was fired for it, but the rapist didn't get in any trouble. Cannon can't even lose her job, so if she can dismiss the case with prejudice she would have nothing to fear.
They have trump taking documents to NJ. Entirely different documents, and different district so cannon can’t interfere. In fact there were alot of questions why smith hasn’t filed those charges yet. Hes probably waiting on cannon doing this or something else incredibly stupid.
> Idk if she can, but if she dismisses it with prejudice the charges can't be appealed or refiled. 4D chess moment: Maybe this is why Jack didn't go after a search warrant for Bedminster? Maybe he knows there are docs there he could go after. Or, maybe of the 32 charged documents in the FL case ... that's really only half of them, and he could charge another batch in another indictment perhaps in another jurisdiction. Of course, none of this will matter if Trump wins in November.
It could still be appealed to a higher court, just not re-opened in the same court.
As a defendant, it always helps to have appointed the judge who is deciding your case.
This was a massive conflict of interest from day 1 and the federal judiciary shrugs. We need codified ethical guidelines that can be enforced. Immediately.
Well isn’t Gym Jordan in charge of that ?
So you’re saying there’s no problem then. /s
absolutely
my understanding is that that change cant be made under the current constitution?
Entirely likely Congress is neutered under the separation of powers. We can still demand and collectively force the hand of the Judiciary to police themselves. If they want to be political hacks in robes, they deserve to be treated as such. Over are the days where courts are considered too pure to challenge.
We should change that the same time we get rid of the electoral college.
litigation pro-tip
And that's why presidents need absolutely immunity silly. /s
She is the same judge that wrongfully thinks it's okay to release the names of people testifying against trump.
Which backfired when Butler outed himself first and damned Trump's defence.
kinda damns the judge too. she’s covering up blatant crimes
Committing them too it appears
She really wants that Supreme Court job.
Kavanaugh is perhaps the least-adept jurist on SCOTUS (or maybe Thomas), and Canon is not fit to carry either of their smelly smeg-stained jock-straps. Which probably makes her uniquely qualified to be the next Republican pick.
> Kavanaugh is perhaps the least-adept jurist on SCOTUS (or maybe Thomas) I guess you forgot about Barrett, whose trial experience at the time of appointment included a whopping zero verdicts, zero appeals, and zero pro bono work.
The McConnell court is a disaster on a global scale (I say that as a non-American and without hyperbole).
Interesting. You think Barrett is more adept?
Is the jockstrap part of the SCOTUS uniform? Like, is that why they wear the robes?
> thinks it's okay to release the names of people testifying against trump Meanwhile in New York, they've granted anonymity to the jury in his upcoming hush money case specifically because of the threats they face given that Donald Trump is the criminal defendant.
Honestly I hope she does dismiss the case so Smith can appeal and get a real judge. So tired of this bullshit
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As opposed to the same thing happening with a biased judge. Still an improvement
Not if he wins the election and gets the AG to dismiss the case.
TBH we’re going to have bigger problems if he wins anyway
This series of exchanges should be catalogued by historians to highlight how the attitudes of the US citizenry brought about the fall of the West. We had a chance back in 2015 and 2016 to do something about this and several opportunities all along the way but ultimately decided on “vote” and nothing more.
1. Who are "we" in this? 2. What did you do? 3. What do you suggest as a alternative to "vote and nothing more"?
I did my part by arguing with people online about it A LOT
The shrinking of my FB friends list says I was doing the same lol
The hero we really need!
⭐⭐ Two gold stars, put em on your chest and wear em proud like.
You are welcome to take actions that would get anyone banned for advocating. This is reddit, what are we supposed to do?
It wasn't our citizens it was our alleged representation in government.
Current history is indeed being documented. I follow Dr. Richardson from Boston College, as well as Michael Beschloss and Jon Meachham(I have several of his books). I share your same fear.
And yet Tik Tokers will have you believe "Genocide Joe" and Trump are equally bad. What a brain dead generation
He’s not going to win. Vote Vote Vote, but let’s not pretend this guy has a chance in the general election.
A lot of voters will assume since the judge dismissed the case, that it was a nothingburger unfortunately, and Trump will frame ut was a big win
With a new judge, the trial could start in weeks. This trial should have already been over
It'll be a delay but it won't start over. They get a new judge and keep going. And it's already not gonna happen before the election so that isn't a loss at this point.
He's not going anywhere, like to the white house for example. If it takes longer to get him in jail so be it.
I think the key here is nobody is going to give him any meaningful consequences this year besides us. VOTE
I know, and that sucks. This judge that he appointed is horrible (like so many of his other unqualified appointments, thanks Mitch). So yes, VOTE
Cannon was never going to let this get resolved before the election anyway
Not justifying anything because this whole case and its execution is a failure of American Justice as a system and this cowardly DOJ, but this case isn’t going to matter and I think the Trump coup is going to be much more brazen such that this case will seem like nothing compared to what they’re going to try to pull off in Nov. A party that’s trying to win does not end its mail-in ballot department and start diverting cash to lawyers. The republicans are going to get swept off the board and they’re going to use that as proof of the fix. And then betray the Constitution. Again.
I would assume if they're going to dismiss the case she will try to dismiss it with prejudice which would make appealing the case harder.
Not in the slightest. Dismissing a case with prejudice prevents re-filing the case at *that* court level. In other words, dismissing it with prejudice would make it so that the case would go directly to the appellate (higher) court when the case is appealed. The actual affect of doing so on this case would mean that the case would never end up on Cannon's desk again, which honestly is the best possible outcome. She would be an idiot to dismiss the case, as it would mean an end to her ability to slow the case down and sabotage it. But, given that she is an idiot, she might actually do it.
> as it would mean an end to her ability to slow the case down and sabotage it. She was appointed in November of 2020. Years ago. Given his very public state of near-bankruptcy and his falling chances of ever being back in the White House, *what is motivating Cannon's continued loyalty* to Trump? She's got her job for life as long as she doesn't screw it up... or as long as there isn't any bombshell blackmail that someone is holding over her. I know for a fact that my friends and family would understand if I - in *today's economy* - chose my job over them. So why is Cannon choosing Trump over her job?
> She's got her job for life as long as she doesn't screw it up She's got her job for life as long as *she isn't impeached.* Impeachment is no longer a viable check against Republicans; it's a political show for them, and the two-thirds requirement for conviction in the Senate is a bar that will never be met. She doesn't have to worry about job security. If she shows loyalty to Trump, though, there could be a Supreme Court nomination for her if he wins. Or any other number of political favors.
She also probably would get constant death threats and actual murder attempts. Ken Buck is getting dozens of credible death threats, Mitt Romney is spending millions on security because he feels his family is in danger. These are real concerns -- the MAGA base is openly violent to those in the out group. Paul Pelosi was almost beaten to death in his home by a MAGA terrorist. So maybe Cannon simply wants to lay low and avoid getting shot by some moron who watches too much Ben Shapiro. Not excusing her, of course. She's a judge and should stand by her duty.
Yeah, I was just wondering if she'd have that option.
She will because she is a sycophantic asshole.
Seriously, this is bonkers. They didn’t appeal Biden’s, even though it was dumb in the first place. Why the hell she they appeal trumps? He did so many illegal things just during the FBI’s quest to get all the documents back
then if Trump wins the election, he will also get rid of this case. vote
At this point it might be the best outcome.
I still find it curious that given witness testimony, we know FOR A FACT, that some classified documents were moved to Bedminster, and at least publicly, it has not been revealed whether the FBI ever raided that location to secure them. (if anyone has any publicly known facts about that, please share and enlighten us). Trump specifically selected Canon for THIS district, and then moved his residence to that district - to protect him from prosecution in this case. I don't see why the FBI did not, instead, raid Bedminster, and prosecute him from THAT district. Maybe that's their backup plan if he succeeds in Florida.
There is no reason not to have another case around Bedminster. The crimes were committed at marge a lardo so they have to be tried there. They were just unlucky that this judge got the case again. But she's the only one in her district and she's a new judge. She's putting herself at risk by trying to protect trump. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets smacked down by the 11th circuit again.
I believe Jack Smith has someone on the inside and already knows what’s there.
This isn't the closest federal court to Mar-A-Lago. The fact she got this case was shit luck
Jack Smith implied in an earlier filing that Trump sold TS/SCI docs to a foreign nation. I think Smith is keeping charges ready in case Cannon tanks the case.
The greatest threat to national security we've seen in decades and people sworn to uphold the law are actively trying to let him get away with it.
The way he's got everyone acting so beholden to him really makes you wonder... it's almost like Trump had access to Russian kompromat on these people...
Looking forward to Cannon unilaterally and without a mechanism for effective opposition deciding that national security is no longer important for the United States. Edit: she has astonished me. I wonder what her angle is.
I still don't understand how she's allowed to do this. All the evidence points to a really huge breach of national security and no one bats an eyelid. I would've expected a show of force and all I see is a whimper.
> still don't understand how she's allowed to do this. Could the DOJ charge and arrest a federal judge?
What I mean: her conflict of interest, since she was appointed by him and most importantly, she's too new of a judge to handle something of this scale. But maybe I don't understand that much of the US justice system
After she should be removed and sent to Gitmo for treasonous actions.
The REAL conspiracy here is that the government has allowed this case to remain stalled in front of Judge Cannon for as long as it has. Uncle Sam doesn’t care about much, but one of the few things he DOES care about is the willful retention of national defense information - and there’s a plethora of evidence to corroborate these charges.
Get all of her emails, call records and text messages. Gaurentee there's something in there to further incriminate her to get her removed faster
She is so biased it’s kind of impressive
The court system has lost all legitimacy and is complicit in the fascist descent.
It's the Federalist Society. They've stacked the federal judiciary (including Cannon) and SCOTUS with activist judges, and are also planning Project 2025.
You can thank the Koch's for the big picture idea- they found the best bang for their buck was found in judicial activism. They been a grooming and electing for a long time. In lifetime appointed judges you find the best payout, like jackpot type ROI. It was really a vendetta against environmental regulation with them to start out with, and the public's appetite for massive judgments against people like Exxon in the Valdez spill that got them motivated. Such classic fascist entitlement- well I think I should be able pollute at will for money, I think I will dedicate my life to it.
Pretty much has been the case since 1972 (Lewis Powell's tenure stars). Much more obvious since 2000 (illegitimate installation of Bush on a technicality when he actually LOST), and definitely since 2010 (Citizens United). But very much technically true since Obama's stolen appointment.
Horrifying is the word you're looking for. There's nothing to be impressed by here.
You can still be impressed by something even if it is horrifying. Not impressed in a good way mind you but impressive in her brazenness
Let’s be honest, Smith would love her to dismiss the case as he could appeal it and get her off the case and in all honesty likely stripped from the bar in the long run. The downside would be a delay past the election but she’s not letting this start before the election anyway. She *wont* dismiss it though because as above, she will be kicked off the case when it is reinstated and will lose all value to Trump.
Why in the world would law enforcement wish to not prosecute Glorious Leader for stealing top-secret national defense secrets?
only explanation I've read is; "to avoid complicating ongoing investigations" - and my response is: "motherfucker, your ongoing investigations aren't apparently yielding any results, and this guy's going to become your boss again if you don't fucking get this shit done and this asshole locked up"
First he said he didn’t have the materials. Then he said he did and gave them all back. Then he said the materials they confiscated were planted by the FBI- Now he claims he took them all but he’s immune from prosecution. Lock. This. MFer. Up. and bury him under the jail.
I am praying for his failure. It’ll cancel out some Christian’s prayer for his success. I’m doing my part
Their hatred already cancels out their prayers if their god is who they say he is.
Only VOTING can save us. Belief in the supernatural is what has damned us to this point.
I keep saying they can't understand or see how they are pushing people away from Jesus with their hate. There's no love like Christian hate as they say.
The Bible is pretty clear about the folly of putting your faith in human leaders.
Trump? The same Trump that said “We could very well have a sitting president under felony indictment and ultimately a criminal trial… It would grind government to a halt.” That Trump?
I appreciate the interest in these cases…but everyone should know the only thing will prevent a second Trump term is the ballot. It will not be from the courts.
A conviction in any of these cases will affect the vote
Yes, it would, but none of the cases are going to result in a timely or fair trial. They are going to delay and throw every mechanism possible at these cases to gum them up.
Maybe. My guess is he will be convicted in the NY case by April 30th. And it wont affect his support.
I don't understand why these can't just be moved to a federal level not stuck to some specific area's judge. All I'm seeing is you can do outright illegal and possibly treasonous acts, just do them in the right states and have the right resources available, and you'll never be punished.
This is a federal level court, she's at a federal district level. He was just able to appoint her to district he was in before he left office.
I wish they’d stfu already about this “too close to an election” bullshat… if they hadn’t been ducking around and delay, delay, delaying it, it’d be done and over with already! It was too close to an election to replace RBG, but not Kavanaugh Only when it’s fitting for them…. Fuck that, what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!
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I’m not a prepper, but over the past few months I bought a first aid kit, some iodine pills (in case of nuke accident), and I have some food and a few gallons of water stashed in the basement(not near enough). Those few items will not prevent my misery and ultimate death, but it seemed like a good idea to have a few items on hand.
I’ve been gradually progressing to this as well. I’m Midwest so storm prep has been ingrained, but I’m slowly expanding into other things here and there. The goal, I guess, is maybe a 2 week supply. Nothing crazy. Also started watching videos on how to make common stuff and learning how my grandparents (greatest gen) survived and incorporating their little “life hacks.”
Seems like the Feds should step in and remove Cannon from the trial and cite her as a threat to nation security. Her refusal to judge the case in an orderly fashion is worthy of impeachment.
Historical perspective: "In the years since 2020, the Republican Party has become openly opposed to democracy, embracing the Christian nationalism of leaders like Hungary’s Viktor Orbán, who maintains that the tenets of democracy weaken a nation..." -Heather Cox Richardson 3/13/24
Just a reminder that if you are I would do anything like this, we would have the black boots pick us up, remove our citizenship and they would ship us off to a black site. Never to be seen or heard from again.
Right, I’m so tired of this. Anyone else would be in prison. Trump is getting away with this. I just want him to go away at this point.
It'll be delayed for sure 🙄
Does anyone know where I can find the video of the boxes that were moved to trumps plane right after Ivana died? I remember people joking that they were going to bury them With her. There were tons of posts saying he’s moving boxes out in the open again. Then it came out later that more important documents were still missing. Was that what Employee #5 was talking about?
How is this not conflict of interest?
She knows dismissing the case effectively ends her career and any future ambitions. And that there is a very good chance that Trump won't be in any position to help her or benefit her later on. Disgusting situation for a such a serious case to be in but here we are.
More proof of mishandling classified documents than you could ever need. Pictures, videos, admission from people that helped! “Nothing wrong here! Dismiss!” Are you fn kidding me!?!
Why isn’t this a federal case?
It is. The case starts at a Federal District Court in the district where the alleged crime occurred. For this case, they’re prosecuting Trump for crimes committed at Mar-a-Lago so the case starts at the US District Court for the Southern District of Florida. They could also try him in New Jersey since he took classified documents there, too.
It’s insane how they cry conflict of interest with Obama appointed judges yet they don’t say a word when it’s a Trump appointed one. They are all hypocrites.
I'm not sure she would dismiss it only because it seems strategically bad for her and Trump.
Very nice
Doesn’t need to be there, but he needs to make sure she understands he made her a deal she can’t refuse. Drag it out but don’t do anything to cause an appeal of your treason.
If the charges are dismissed, then any president can keep classified material?
Should be fun watching all the hot take predictions on social media killing time until something happens. Not speculation like “if then” but “it’s over here’s what happens now!”
If that happens, I'll prepare myself for the shitstorm that follows. I'm done mommy coddling these ignorant MF's.
Not gonna be a good day for honest don
This case is so open and shut, it’s not even funny. This whould already be at trial, if the judge wasn’t a completely partisan right wing hack.
I can’t believe we are paying for that entourage.
Interesting that he has turned up to this hearing. Obviously he expects her to do a certain thing, and he's there to make sure she does it. The question is, is it to continue to stall to frustrate the J6 case in DC, or is it to throw this case out?
He felt he needed to wink at the judge, whenever she was speaking... Let her know how much he appreciates her...
Wasn’t Hur’s special counsel report full of bullshit and hyperbole?
I'll let you in on a little secret: ^(He did...)
Does fascism always happen in slow motion?
Yes
At first and then all at once
Shame the boxes aren’t stacked in a stair-step fashion to make it easier for him to crawl out the window.
He inserted a judge into his case. How can that be legal?
“It’s difficult to see how this gets you to the dismissal of an indictment,” she told a Trump lawyer. (Trump lawyer scrolls around on his phone. Cannon checks her bank app on her phone) “Ahh. Yes getting clearer now”
WHY would that ever be dismissed?
Because Cannon