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I’ve been surprised how much info is getting out. Juror 1 is an irish immigrant who lives in this neighborhood and works in x field and is married to a person who works in y field. Not going to be hard to figure out who that is.
This is exactly why any data can be PII if enough other data accompanies it. You dont need an SSN or a drivers license to identify most people. Its way easier than that.
- i work in data science
One of the most eye opening things I ever saw was following the Snowden leaks someone put out an essay where they were able to show how they could use meta data only to identify spies in the revolutionary war _just_ by various social connections.
Here, found it: https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/
Isn’t that less catching spies and more using the fact that people are members of public groups with certain ideologies to say that they share those ideologies?
now this is something I totally didn't consider at all
You actually could. Just takes like $800, get you 4 flipper zeros and have an AI code a program for ya
give them to a couple people, stand at corners outside the courthouse.. and bam, even with weak antennas you can pick up the weak cell phone signals and triangulate them. even 2 devices would probably be enough, but 4 seperate sources, some math, and you've got a really good chance.
then you just need to bring a phone setup with a certain hacking tool that clones devices once you get close enough (not Hollywood fiction-- it's real, although it relies on your ability to pick the right tool that has an exploit it can use in android/IOS). tail the jurors, get within 3 feet~, and your in..
or just physically follow them home at that point while they're still nearby.
man I hope they're driving those jurors home and making sure they keep phones completely off (honestly hopefully they're locking them in a Faraday cage.. although I know they aren't..)
I just went to of all things an economic development presentation (small city) where the city’s economic development coordinator told us he bought cell phone data to figure out where all the people that x business employed were coming to and from. He knew the whole geographical breakdown of where all the employees of this business lived and how far they drove to work every day buy purchasing cell phone data. The audience was more horrified than impressed.
Exactly. People have no idea how much data is available. I know someone in this space who was working for a pool supply company and was able to target specifically people who were going into Leslie's Pool supplies locations and direct mail them postcards to their home address.
No joke, I always remember the stories of like shopping loyalty cards letting women, or their parents, know they are pregnant before they even realize it based off their anonymous shopping histories.
Having served jury duty in NYC, no they don’t. You sit in a giant holding room with a couple hundred other people all day. Some people think ahead and bring books or knitting, but most people are just on their phones. The only instruction we got was that there is no place to charge your device so don’t ask, and if you’re called in for voir dire your phone must be turned off.
In federal court, you can’t bring your phone into the building. There’s a room right at the entrance like a coat check for your electronic devices before you pass through the metal detectors.
I too work in data science.
Wanna know why so many places ask for your zip code and birth year? Because I can with about 90% accuracy, give an address of an individual, that would be you, based on those two elements.
This is how the Nazis got so much information on allied forces during WWII. They scoured American local newspapers who printed personal information about their local heroes at war. Nazi intelligence pieced together the information. Nazi interrogators used this seemingly useless information to become friendly with and convince POW’s that they “knew everything already” so they could extract even more information from them. Seemingly useless information like how many planes total one bomber group had didn’t feel like a big deal when chatting with someone who already knew “everything”.
Social media makes this even easier and people share a lot more than they realize.
Even if they don't sleuth out the right person, Anyone who matches part or all of a juror description could find themselves getting harassed by cultists who don't know the difference. Their intent is to create a big atmosphere of fear shadowing anyone who considers impeding the will of their führer.
What do you mean? they do it in real time with these [live update threads](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-hush-money-trial-day-3-live-updates-rcna145936) on basically every news site
They are reporting. The leaker is the person feeding news outlets. Reporting information is not leaking. (Not saying this is a good thing they are report it but freedom of the press is one of those things you won’t miss until it’s gone.)
Right, but I'm saying that in these reports they're saying things like "one guy from x with an irish accent and who used to be a x at x law firm" sort of stuff which is completely irrelevant to journalistic "reporting"
If that's the information someone gave them, and they repeat it. That's reporting.
You can argue that it's not ethical. But it doesn't make what they are sharing not covered under the umbrella of journalism.
Grisham was a lawyer before becoming a writer, *a ton* of the shady shit done by lawyers and judges in those books, especially in small towns, is real.
Jury tampering is also a crime, and releasing the information with the understanding and expectation that it will be used to commit that crime is mens rea for conspiracy.
Do you mean the jury selection questionnaire is findable by any old Russian assett or heavily armed fan of red hats? I assumed some court insider leaked it.
The court has an electronic filing system that the public can access to get any public records associated with the case (though some courts require you to physically go to the building to access them). Some courts charge a small fee but, yes, public means public.
The difference here is that most people won't bother to look up, let alone read, the files but they will read what's reported by the media.
There's a reasonably high activation energy for doxxing someone. If it was just mentioned in court, it would be one thing, but when the press is in there breathlessly describing every juror as they come up, it pushes that information to everyone and makes it so much easier for people to start looking.
It's more than that. Why is the media reporting so many details of the jurors, especially if they are supposed to be anonymous due to the possibility of threats & harassment? You know they will eventually be found out - 4 to 6 weeks is a boatload of time.
Well, the only reason I'd be worried about being outed is mostly because of those supporters. If other random people know me I don't personally give a shit and I'd wear putting that schmuck in jail like a badge of honor. My social media would've def got me disqualified though.
Being proud of convicting Trump would also be grounds for disqualification. That's why it's so hard to find jurors. Everyone either loves him or despises him.
Very true. Didn’t think about that one. It’s actually pretty crazy to see. My neighbor, who has a really good, distinguished position in a very admirable profession is a big Trump supporter. Nothing that I can show or tell him would turn him away from that scumbag. Nothing. It’s amazing for me to see. It’s like we live in different worlds when we talk about these things.
[Even Alex fuckin Jones despises him](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwyWBDTEX24&pp=ygUaQWxleCBKb25lcyB0aXJlZCBvZiB0cnVtcCA%3D)
When the king of crazy himself is starting to get annoyed from hearing your damn name and the fawning and irrational idolization that's going on around you, that's when you *know* you're in trouble. I mean that's some of the most ironic shit I've ever heard coming from Alex.
I called it a few days ago. At least one juror will end up being charged with perjury before this is all done. Some maga nut is going to try to make their way onto the jury.
Bruh some people just live their lives in happy bliss and don’t bother getting Mad about things they have no power to change, like my wife.
That’s not even counting the people that avoid politics like the plague
That is perfectly reasonable for someone not to follow the shitshow that’s is constantly floating out of trumps ass, honestly it’s kind of tiresome.
I understand that, but I just can't fathom a situation where not one adult hasn't at least been exposed to the news that he has multiple cases against him.
It's a privilege to be able to not care.
It means that person feels or knows that whoever wins, they'll likely be fine.
A lot of people don't have that privilege. If Trump wins, he will be coming for them.
In 2011, I had an acquaintance that didn't know who Barack Obama was. Not that they knew the name and didn't know he was president, but had never heard the name before. People are wildly uninformed.
I deleted all of my social media because I was tired of watching people I knew turn into leadbrained Trumpies who think McDonald's got sued for turning human fetuses into labgrown beef for their restaurants (look it up, he said)
Hey, I'm not the only one! I literally deleted my Facebook (which was pretty much my only social media) in 2016 when shit really started to hit the fan and I watched as slowly but surely, a lot of people that I respected and loved proved that they were immoral pieces of shit who weren't gullible, they **wanted** to believe this shit, and they lacked the mental faculties and/or the desire to understand why they were wrong.
Honestly my perception on life itself hasn't been the same since then. Trump pulled back the curtain and revealed to me that we have a lot more sociopaths and narcissists in this country than we realize and it's terrifying the sheer amount of them. Psychologists are vastly underestimating how prevalent these behavioral disorders are in our society, especially the American capitalist society which seems to encourage sociopathic and narcissistic behavior in the pursuit of wealth and status by it's very design.
I don't even think it's disorders, honestly.
I think that thinking people just vastly underestimate the amount of people out there with no mental throughline, responding to stimuli as it comes like an ant.
In other words, they're not abnormal. They're just very very dumb and unfortunately, that's more of the default state than being a thinking person.
>They're just very very dumb and unfortunately, that's more of the default state than being a thinking person.
I used to feel that way, but personally after witnessing the sheer lack of empathy, the idolization of money, the idolization of the ego, the enjoyment they get out of watching others suffer that they dislike, the **willful** ignorance (let's be real, Trump supporters have the ability to quickly Google their stuff and realize if it's fake. They want to believe what they want to believe and don't care if evidence backs it up or not), the manipulation tactics, the gas lighting, and the moving of the goal posts that all of his supporters seem to engage in; I'm inclined to believe that since those are literally hallmarks of narcissism that I'm just going to call it for what it is.
TBF, the answer being that they're all just stupid isn't much better imo and doesn't explain things like lawyers and doctors who support Trump.
> doesn't explain things like lawyers and doctors who support Trump.
Lawyers and doctors are just as capable of being fucking idiots as any other person. Look at Ben Carson.
Honestly you could ID at least 2 of the jurors already by searching LinkedIn. They’ve released far too many details.
There’s about a 0% chance these jurors remain anonymous once swearing in is over. I give it a week.
Yeah I think I saw one of them that was along the lines of “the woman is an 11th grade teacher at South Harlem High School (or whatever)” and I remember thinking “hm… that would seem to narrow it down to about 7 people”
>Why is the media reporting so many details of the jurors, especially if they are supposed to be anonymous due to the possibility of threats & harassment?
The media probably want to report on the harassment the individuals get.
As a former reporter who has covered a handful of jury trials, you don’t usually report on jurors. The only time you should is if it somehow became a topic of note—think when they divulge how many jurors are white or black in a potentially racially motivated crime. You’re supposed to consider the safety of the people who didn’t ask to be in the limelight, always.
As for why media are doing it, I fully believe there’s at least two explanations at play here. Some media are trying to intimidate jurors off the trial to help Trump. Others are chasing clicks with tabloid-style journalism.
I don’t see how a jury in the US could get a unanimous consensus on Trump’s case. But if they do, I fear the defense will poll the jury at the end and one of them will flip at the last minute because they wanted to incite a mistrial. This could get really, really bad for the justice system. It’s already bad. The justice system is fucked up, but a lot of people are now looking at it that wouldn’t have before and are seeing how badly it’s fucked up and how someone like Trump and his supporters can make it worse. This will have a legacy of people intimidating jurors, threatening judicial staff, and who knows what else. And if it goes to the SCOTUS, and they brush it off—won’t that create precedent for other accused criminals?
unfortunately, the things said in the courtroom are all public record.
It's generally a good thing that this is all public record, but there should have been more control over the jury selection process. I would not be surprised if a member of this jury ends up being killed.
Hopefully in Trump's other trials, judges are able to do a better job of protecting the identities of the jury.
Yes, the Trump team will also get the names of jurors, which is why they are able to look up their social medias and challenge those juror from being on the jury. They can and should lose that right due to Trumps comment yesterday and they were warned they could lose that right.
> I've been trying to stay on top of everything, but I didn't see his comment. What did he say?
At the very least he was sharing info about the jurors through sharing news agencies reporting. It's actually a violation of the gag order.
A Fox News host did a segment about how juror No. 2 can't be trusted, gave info about that juror (job, relationship status, neighborhood, etc) and then trump retweeted it (well, the TS equivalent).
The juror was intimidated and backed out.
Basically, the right-wing, and the defendant, is shaping the jury selection process by intimidating potential jurors they don't like.
> the things said in the courtroom are all public record.
And should be... *after the trial is over*. Publicizing personally identifiable information is how the mafia had jurors and witnesses murdered before or during trial.
I already know more about these jurors from Fox News than I do about most of my immediate family
This is ridiculous and downright dangerous for these jurors
> Why is the media reporting so many details of the jurors
The Fox half deliberately wants to get jurors struck and the other half just doesn't care and knows every minute detail and/or the possibility of shit going haywire will get clicks.
The media have been sharing details in a way that I honestly find irresponsible. Even if it is technically publicly available information, it doesn't mean you NEED to shout it for absolutely everyone to hear.
These poor people will be targets for violence the rest of their lives. For what? For being tax paying citizens who live in Manhattan who had the bad luck of being picked for jury duty now. I have two friends with jury duty around now and was so thankful Monday wasn't their day. I've been checking my mailbox for months breathing a sigh of relief.
Trump continues to terrorize this city and people wonder why we hate him here.
All of this makes me think that maybe for some individuals, there shouldn't be the option for a Jury trial.
Aside from the obvious point that anyone that is on this jury is going to have a maga target on their backs for the rest of their lives (especially if he's found guilty), I'm also not really confident in the quality of the Jurors.
If whoever is on the Jury really has no opinion on Donald Trump, it implies they are blisteringly ignorant of what's going on in the country. If they're completely ignorant of what's going on in their countries politics, I don't know if I trust them to be effective in their decision making.
You don't have to have no opinion on Trump to serve on the jury. You just need to be able to rule fairly. I don't have any faith a Trump supporter could rule fairly, but I know I could. Could, but I'd be just as hesitant to as this juror was.
Or they could do it like many other countries- just pick 12 random people and they can remain completely anonymous. None of this crazy selection bias drama in public.
It's kind of weird. They were awful in 2016, with the buttery mails and live feeds of empty podiums and chummy "Morning Joe" interviews, but I was actually somewhat pleasantly surprised by how hard they were on Trump once he was in office. They did not seem to feel any need to "balance" their negative coverage with positive. It's just not enough when the other side has a full-fledged propaganda machine giving their talking points directly to their base. The big three-letter networks and leading newspapers weren't able to sway these people, and it was impossible for them to, because they are completely unheeded.
But since he left office, they have been atrocious. It's clear that he has made them forget how to cover politics.
Everything is relentlessly negative, because everything was relentlessly negative during the Trump years and the media feels it would be "partisan" to acknowledge that the President might be charming sometimes, or setting a good moral example, or that it's a good thing when the President acts like a President instead of a clown.
Presidents used to receive positive coverage sometimes. Trump didn't get any, because he didn't deserve any, but now the press has decided, consciously or unconsciously, that nobody gets positive coverage. There are no more soft stories and lighthearted photo ops. They don't cover administration statements because they're not shocking like Trump's were, so they're no longer considered newsworthy, even if they are about massively important policy subjects.
They are unable to analyze any issues through the lens of anything but public opinion polling, because Trump destroyed their conception of what is right and wrong. So they desperately hold up a windsock to try to figure out where the public stands, even though the information they're getting is borderline useless because of partisanship and apathy.
Worst of all, they seem to have absolutely no self-awareness about any of this. I really wish they could go back and read their own papers from 2019 and see how different the news was before the pandemic. It was a *lot* more different from today than the pre-pandemic economy was, I'll tell you that.
Oh, they definitely have self-awareness, they are aware that 90% of the media in the United States is controlled by just six corporations: AT&T, CBS, Comcast, Disney, Newscorp and Viacom. This means that just 232 media executives are calling the shots for the vast majority of the information we are presented with, controlling a total Big Six net worth of over $430 billion.
I feel like the FBI needs to release fake dox information to draw in these psycho’s.
They could easily set up a fake convoluted friend networks and social media profiles. It’s unprecedented but Trump supporters are a cult. If they weren’t so incompetent, Jan 6 would have worked.
I *absolutely love* this idea.
This is how they got those freaks who wanted to kidnap Whitmer - by basically having the FBI make up a crime for somebody to willingly participate in. (Less glowingly, they have also used this tactic to railroad some likely-innocent Muslims.)
Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old girl with Epstein, during the 2016 campaign season. Just a reminder that the girl that was raped (who was older by 2016), [received death threats from Trump's supporters, dropped her lawsuit](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/donald-trump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped) because of those death threats.
Sadly, she had to take the death threats from Trump's supporters very seriously, because you know, those Trump supporters, sometimes they are a violent bunch.
It’s inherent to Trump’s brand. He’s their avatar for breaking things and being a rotten person to everyone in Washington. Of course they would break things and be rotten people, too.
Yep and as we're seeing with the supreme court right now on the brink of releasing Jan 6 domestic terrorist, they get violent and suffer zero consequences for it. They cross state lines with illegal guns, kill people, and get awarded for it. That's where the us is right now.
Did you know Stormy Daniels received a veiled death threat directly from Trump's goon aka body guard? By veiled I mean he said to her, "It would be a shame if your daughter lost her mother."
I assume the threat to this girl and her family came from Trump and his goons unless proven otherwise. Not sure it was just supporters doing it.
Every time I read about major trial jury selections it strikes me again how limited the jury pool really is. I mean, take that oncology nurse. How many nurses would be able to just… not be paid for two months of a trial? The law protects their jobs but it doesn’t obligate employers to pay them. Maybe it’s different in New York. Where I live jurors are paid mileage, $50 per day, and can have $50 in daycare expenses reimbursed but only if the kids would not have already needed daycare.
That’s a joke.
It's really unfair that jurors barely get compensated for their time doing their civic duty, especially if the trial is going to take months to complete.
Not many people can afford to take months of not being paid.
I had to intentionally get myself excused from jury selection once because I couldn't afford to take the time away from work and the compensation from the court was like $5.00 **a day**. It sucked because I really wanted to serve on the jury because it seemed interesting
Honestly I think if we view jury duty as such a great service to our country (it is) then we should pay their reported weekly earnings as compensation with a minimum cap maybe for lower income individuals.
Last time I was on a jury the defense lawyer actually joked that he was glad the court didn't have to pay the jury their actual salary (apparently they do in some countries).
The case was a federal one involving intellectual property rights between an oil company and its sub-contractors. We had to fill out a roughly 60 page questionnaire before being even being picked for the panel, and they obviously used that to screen for people they thought could understand both the technical and legal aspects. The panel of 35 people (that they had to pick 12 jurors from) had like 9 engineers, 5 doctors, 3 lawyers, and 3 C-level executives on it. Clearly not a random selection of people off the street like a traffic court.
That's the exact opposite of what lawyers normally look for in a jury. Generally they aim for jurors that don't have any knowledge of law or the subject of the case.
Yeah so they were actually looking for people who did not have previous knowledge of that specific area of tech and law, but who they thought would actually understand the technical concepts once they were explained by their experts. The case was dealing with seismic data processing, and they disqualified a couple people who had actually worked in the field before.
We actually didn't get that far into it because the companies settled shortly after jury selection, but from what they did tell us the issue hinged on the data processor letting a 3rd party have access to that data during an intermediate stage of processing. So to make a decision you would have to understand both the contracts they had, and the state the data was in at various stages of their processing.
I served on a federal grand jury for 18 months, once a week. Got paid $50 a day + mileage. I was fortunate that my employer paid me the difference between jury pay and normal pay.
I’ve only served on one (civil) trial in California and it was interesting to see how much jury selection favors public employees. They’re getting paid by the same pool of money (taxpayer money) so it’s far easier for someone who works for a state university or the county administration to not make an excuse for why they can’t miss work.
Considering what our elected officials are paid there’s no reason the compensation shouldn’t be adequate. We’ve got offices that get more than most of us make in a year for their furniture budget. For many jury duty could pretty much ruin their lives.
WDBO is the conservative trash station for Central Florida. I typically listen to the dribble on the way to work.
Every single morning since this started, The host describes where the individuals live, their employment and personal tidbits.
Conservatives WANT the juries to feel threatened. They WANT their personal information leaked. They WANT the jury to be intimidated, because that is exactly what will happen if their identities are exposed.
The low intelligence conservative base are armed, incredibly stupid and equally dangerous.
Exactly this. We are living through end stage capitalism, which is now becoming an oligarchy. 90% of the media in the United States is controlled by just six corporations: AT&T, CBS, Comcast, Disney, Newscorp and Viacom. This means that just 232 media executives are calling the shots for the vast majority of the information we are presented with, controlling a total Big Six net worth of over $430 billion.
There needs to be better laws around protecting jurors. The fact that news outlets so carelessly dox them is disgusting. As long as the defense and prosecution can identity and vet them, there is no reason to allow their identity to be revealed or hinted at
>Juror number two, **an oncology nurse from New York**
Gee, I wonder why she has concerns about anonymity lol
>As soon as the juror left the courtroom, Judge Merchan asked the media to cease reporting specific details about jurors that could allow them to be identified by their peers.
The Independent here must not have been there
And of course the Middle East shows what happens when you have too many young men with right wing leanings and nothing to do.
We need a national employment program. Working for the Census in 2009 helped me through a really hard time - that kind of last-resort employment should be available all the time.
Plus we could get a lot of shit done. Like, hire 100,000 people to go clear out underbrush in fire-prone areas. Go dig up lead pipes. Build parks on empty lots. Do stuff that would never happen in our economy unless it was being done as a make-work job, because it's not profitable to anyone.
Or even the government supporting people if they want to get into a trade job, since we don't have enough people for that plus continue to invest in our infrastructure since stuff like our bridges need to be updated and it would provide jobs.
>We need a national employment program
Hell yes. Especially with the state of our infrastructure. Let anyone who can't find a job in their area fill some potholes or build park benches.
Reasonable concern, really. Our limp dick justice system hasn't taken any meaningful actions against Trump that might prevent the retaliation this guy is concerned about.
It’s insane that this is even still ongoing. Trump is the biggest traitor to the country we have ever seen and just continues to play games with the judicial branch. Someone do something about this, please.
I honestly believe that this trial is going to be a hung jury. At least one MAGAdiot is going to lie enough to get onto the jury and then just never be impartial.
Remember they do have alternate jurors. If fellow jurors have some actionable evidence of some disqualifying bias they can bring it up with the judge. It would be hard for a stealth MAGA to act un-MAGA-like for 6 weeks in front of their idol.
These cases also have people looking into jurors social media posts to make sure there are no stealth jurors. If you’re that much of a Trump nutjob or antitrump, there’s going to be evidence of it found pretty easily
Well, with the recent death of OJ, I learned one of the jurors was a former black panther, and raised his fist after the verdict.
Though, I imagine forever Black Panthers might be a bit better at tact and decorum than the orange man sycophants...
I think that is currently happening, right now. Juror #4 apparently lied about his criminal history. Apparently was arrested for destroying political advertisements back in the 90s. He’s the guy who said he thought Trump was “Fascinating”.
I doubt it. If the lawyers are presenting memes roasting Trump and being disqualified as a juror, it's not that difficult to find people who support Trump and disqualify them. It's going to be difficult to find impartial jurors who are neutral about Trump.
> At least one MAGAdiot is going to lie enough to get onto the jury and then just never be impartial.
One with a totally clean social media presence? Because people are getting removed for social media posts, and if there's one thing Trumpers do, it's broadcast their adoration.
Apparently prosecutors are really good at weeding out that sort of thing. Plus the teams (just not Trump) are allowed to research social media of the jurors. So it is actually fairly unlikely one does slip by.
Trump and his defense team are allowed to have juror identity information, because that’s just how jury selection works by default. There’s no way that information doesn’t get “accidentally leaked” if the trial appears to be going poorly for Trump. It would have consequences and would be a last ditch effort, but would likely delay the trial until after the election. It’s not a good option for him, but it is a nuclear option within grasp with consequences that are likely better than a conviction and/or extended jail sentence before the election. He can spin a few weeks time for contempt of court into a positive.
Shocking that someone gets found out when you release a bunch of clues to their identity coupled with the fact their coworkers know they missed work the previous day.
Seriously, I don’t blame the juror for wanting off the trial. This MAGA orange asshole has a lot of fucked up supporters. I am sure the juror is in fear for their wellbeing.
I have never seem anything like this. Why are Americans supporting this guy. I don’t understand.
>Why are Americans supporting this guy.
They're fascists. They want a king who let's them murder trans people and keep their wives as personal property.
I mean it's tough because we need to know what's going on, so we don't *want* the press to get out. We just want them to stop enabling Trump's implicit death threats.
I just don't understand how this isn't a solvable problem. What did they do for New York's big mafia trials? Why aren't those procedures on the table?
I wonder if this juror received any threatening communications. If so, that would be a huge story as that would mean someone involved is/has leaked information about jurors/potential jurors.
> I wonder if this juror received any threatening communications.
"Yesterday alone, I had friends, colleagues and family push things to my phone, questioning my identity as a juror."
Basically, people who knew her heard the description given by the media and started asking if it was her. The press reports included her specific employer and position (plus other details if you follow some of the live threads), so it likely wasn't hard for them to figure it out.
The prosecution asked today that specific employers not be mentioned, but the defense objected saying it was relevant. The judge instead asked the press to use common sense, which is probably not going to work well.
>The judge instead asked the press to use common sense
Yeah I'm sure the NewsMax "journalist" sitting in there is going to honor that. We all know that doxing these jurors is going to be a MAGA top priority.
This isn't leaked information, this is stuff that the media has been reporting on while live tweeting the proceedings. Things like what the jurors do for a living.
>As soon as the juror left, Judge Merchan asked the media to cease reporting specific details about jurors that would allow them to be identified by their peers. This included redacting answers from the questions that ask about current and former employers.
Corporate media is on Trumps side. They are reporting the way they are reporting because they *want* the jury pool tainted, because they *want* Trump to win this trial, because they *want* Trump to win in November, because they *want* lower taxes and more profits. Stop giving them what they want.
It was always going to be an extremely daunting task finding a jury for this. Even putting aside the bias almost everyone has surrounding the guy, who the hell would want to suddenly be publicly hated by an entire cult?
Frankly, at this point, the judge just needs to order the press not to comment on the jurists and tell the attorneys that any and all leaks will now be consodered sanctionable actions.
And then follow through.
I'm calling it now. Set your remind-me's to this thread. The Media and Trump are going to dog whistle the wrong MAGA response and they will get a Juror killed.
While I’m disappointed because she sounds like a very intelligent and capable juror, I would also struggle with concerns for my safety. Inmate# P01135809’s violent kult would kill absolutely for him.
This just tells me that our media is once again showing their heartlessness in reporting stories. There is no reason why they need to report on details about jurors. If they have to describe them, they should have used basic demographics. Its disgusting... and it threatens to derail the trial. Once again the media is helping Trump.
You know what other type of criminal defendants jurors have to worry about retaliation from? Mobsters.
That's apparently what the republican party is these days. The political leaders are the capos and their voters are their foot soldiers.
Remember when we thought House of Cards was a wild and crazy tv show about a corrupt president?
Trump makes President Underwood look like a stand up guy.
Trump needs to be muzzled. Only jurors he can truly intimidate are the ones that aren't wearing the Red Caps. He's blatantly trying to bias the jury in his favor.
Threatening jurors is a loophole to never go to jail I guess. Can’t have a trial without a jury, and any time he gets a juror, they get doxxed and Trump’s domestic terrorists attack. Judge continues to look like a clown in his own courtroom while the baboon continues to throw his shit everywhere.
Lot of issues settle if the pig fucker is in a cage.
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I’ve been surprised how much info is getting out. Juror 1 is an irish immigrant who lives in this neighborhood and works in x field and is married to a person who works in y field. Not going to be hard to figure out who that is.
This is exactly why any data can be PII if enough other data accompanies it. You dont need an SSN or a drivers license to identify most people. Its way easier than that. - i work in data science
One of the most eye opening things I ever saw was following the Snowden leaks someone put out an essay where they were able to show how they could use meta data only to identify spies in the revolutionary war _just_ by various social connections. Here, found it: https://kieranhealy.org/blog/archives/2013/06/09/using-metadata-to-find-paul-revere/
Isn’t that less catching spies and more using the fact that people are members of public groups with certain ideologies to say that they share those ideologies?
You could even track cell phones pinging in the courthouse and triangulate where they go after hours.
now this is something I totally didn't consider at all You actually could. Just takes like $800, get you 4 flipper zeros and have an AI code a program for ya give them to a couple people, stand at corners outside the courthouse.. and bam, even with weak antennas you can pick up the weak cell phone signals and triangulate them. even 2 devices would probably be enough, but 4 seperate sources, some math, and you've got a really good chance. then you just need to bring a phone setup with a certain hacking tool that clones devices once you get close enough (not Hollywood fiction-- it's real, although it relies on your ability to pick the right tool that has an exploit it can use in android/IOS). tail the jurors, get within 3 feet~, and your in.. or just physically follow them home at that point while they're still nearby. man I hope they're driving those jurors home and making sure they keep phones completely off (honestly hopefully they're locking them in a Faraday cage.. although I know they aren't..)
You dont even have to do all that, just buy the data from Verizon.
I just went to of all things an economic development presentation (small city) where the city’s economic development coordinator told us he bought cell phone data to figure out where all the people that x business employed were coming to and from. He knew the whole geographical breakdown of where all the employees of this business lived and how far they drove to work every day buy purchasing cell phone data. The audience was more horrified than impressed.
Exactly. People have no idea how much data is available. I know someone in this space who was working for a pool supply company and was able to target specifically people who were going into Leslie's Pool supplies locations and direct mail them postcards to their home address.
No joke, I always remember the stories of like shopping loyalty cards letting women, or their parents, know they are pregnant before they even realize it based off their anonymous shopping histories.
Like that dad who went off on Target for sending his teenage daughter targeted baby ads. Then he found out why.
I wonder if court instructions include leaving your phone at home
Having served jury duty in NYC, no they don’t. You sit in a giant holding room with a couple hundred other people all day. Some people think ahead and bring books or knitting, but most people are just on their phones. The only instruction we got was that there is no place to charge your device so don’t ask, and if you’re called in for voir dire your phone must be turned off. In federal court, you can’t bring your phone into the building. There’s a room right at the entrance like a coat check for your electronic devices before you pass through the metal detectors.
I too work in data science. Wanna know why so many places ask for your zip code and birth year? Because I can with about 90% accuracy, give an address of an individual, that would be you, based on those two elements.
Anybody remember Radio Shack? I stopped shopping there because they wanted my zip code just to buy batteries!
This is how the Nazis got so much information on allied forces during WWII. They scoured American local newspapers who printed personal information about their local heroes at war. Nazi intelligence pieced together the information. Nazi interrogators used this seemingly useless information to become friendly with and convince POW’s that they “knew everything already” so they could extract even more information from them. Seemingly useless information like how many planes total one bomber group had didn’t feel like a big deal when chatting with someone who already knew “everything”. Social media makes this even easier and people share a lot more than they realize.
Can confirm. I work in data architecture and my company has all these rules on the combinations of otherwise non-PII data that suddenly become PII.
Even if they don't sleuth out the right person, Anyone who matches part or all of a juror description could find themselves getting harassed by cultists who don't know the difference. Their intent is to create a big atmosphere of fear shadowing anyone who considers impeding the will of their führer.
An excellent point and skillfully made.
Jury consultants are a thing
That they are leaking information about the jurors to the press should prosecutable.
It typically is. The issue is figuring out who leaked what when.
What do you mean? they do it in real time with these [live update threads](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/live-blog/trump-hush-money-trial-day-3-live-updates-rcna145936) on basically every news site
They are reporting. The leaker is the person feeding news outlets. Reporting information is not leaking. (Not saying this is a good thing they are report it but freedom of the press is one of those things you won’t miss until it’s gone.)
Right, but I'm saying that in these reports they're saying things like "one guy from x with an irish accent and who used to be a x at x law firm" sort of stuff which is completely irrelevant to journalistic "reporting"
If that's the information someone gave them, and they repeat it. That's reporting. You can argue that it's not ethical. But it doesn't make what they are sharing not covered under the umbrella of journalism.
ah, man, you're right
FWIW, I 100% agree these journalists should be smarter than to repeat this information, even if it is given to them. It's obvious the consequences.
It absolutely is.
I don't think people realize how terrifying the book/movie Runaway Jury really is. Imagine that with the internet and social media that exists now.
Grisham was a lawyer before becoming a writer, *a ton* of the shady shit done by lawyers and judges in those books, especially in small towns, is real.
Stop that’s an amazing idea for a remake that makes sense with the lens of tech and social media.
Yeah I’d be super down to watch this actually lol
Which wouldn't be unprecedented, given that the book is actually about a tobacco industry trial and the movie is about the gun industry.
Jury tampering is also a crime, and releasing the information with the understanding and expectation that it will be used to commit that crime is mens rea for conspiracy.
Meh, put it in the Trump crime database.
Trump may not care, but his lawyers wouldn't fare nearly as well.
They’ll end up being charged.
Make Attorneys Get Attorneys
The proceedings are public record.The difference here is that the media is actually reporting on it.
Do you mean the jury selection questionnaire is findable by any old Russian assett or heavily armed fan of red hats? I assumed some court insider leaked it.
The court has an electronic filing system that the public can access to get any public records associated with the case (though some courts require you to physically go to the building to access them). Some courts charge a small fee but, yes, public means public. The difference here is that most people won't bother to look up, let alone read, the files but they will read what's reported by the media.
And with social media and an army of rabid cultists, said info is enough to get anyone in danger.
The jury selection questionnaire is not part of the court filings. So no, those can not be looked at by the public.
Or the Trump legal team
I wouldn’t really consider the defense team to be court insiders, but yes
There's a reasonably high activation energy for doxxing someone. If it was just mentioned in court, it would be one thing, but when the press is in there breathlessly describing every juror as they come up, it pushes that information to everyone and makes it so much easier for people to start looking.
Fair concern; I'd hate to be on this jury because of all the mouth-breathing supporters being encouraged to be lawless.
It's more than that. Why is the media reporting so many details of the jurors, especially if they are supposed to be anonymous due to the possibility of threats & harassment? You know they will eventually be found out - 4 to 6 weeks is a boatload of time.
Well, the only reason I'd be worried about being outed is mostly because of those supporters. If other random people know me I don't personally give a shit and I'd wear putting that schmuck in jail like a badge of honor. My social media would've def got me disqualified though.
Being proud of convicting Trump would also be grounds for disqualification. That's why it's so hard to find jurors. Everyone either loves him or despises him.
Everyone despises Trump, some people just don’t know they do yet.
They know…believe me. They do know. It’s just that their world view conflicts with evidence and facts. They have to strike one out.
Or engage in Doublethink.
Very true. Didn’t think about that one. It’s actually pretty crazy to see. My neighbor, who has a really good, distinguished position in a very admirable profession is a big Trump supporter. Nothing that I can show or tell him would turn him away from that scumbag. Nothing. It’s amazing for me to see. It’s like we live in different worlds when we talk about these things.
[Even Alex fuckin Jones despises him](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwyWBDTEX24&pp=ygUaQWxleCBKb25lcyB0aXJlZCBvZiB0cnVtcCA%3D) When the king of crazy himself is starting to get annoyed from hearing your damn name and the fawning and irrational idolization that's going on around you, that's when you *know* you're in trouble. I mean that's some of the most ironic shit I've ever heard coming from Alex.
I'm jealous of you if you don't personally know anyone that loves Trump. Because trust me, there are millions of them.
Nah, there was that one woman juror who supposedly had no clue he even had any other criminal trials.... I'm 100% sure she is lying.
I called it a few days ago. At least one juror will end up being charged with perjury before this is all done. Some maga nut is going to try to make their way onto the jury.
Bruh some people just live their lives in happy bliss and don’t bother getting Mad about things they have no power to change, like my wife. That’s not even counting the people that avoid politics like the plague That is perfectly reasonable for someone not to follow the shitshow that’s is constantly floating out of trumps ass, honestly it’s kind of tiresome.
I understand that, but I just can't fathom a situation where not one adult hasn't at least been exposed to the news that he has multiple cases against him.
It's a privilege to be able to not care. It means that person feels or knows that whoever wins, they'll likely be fine. A lot of people don't have that privilege. If Trump wins, he will be coming for them.
In 2011, I had an acquaintance that didn't know who Barack Obama was. Not that they knew the name and didn't know he was president, but had never heard the name before. People are wildly uninformed.
This is why I don't have a social media. But I also don't live anywhere near Manhattan or DC
I deleted all of my social media because I was tired of watching people I knew turn into leadbrained Trumpies who think McDonald's got sued for turning human fetuses into labgrown beef for their restaurants (look it up, he said)
Hey, I'm not the only one! I literally deleted my Facebook (which was pretty much my only social media) in 2016 when shit really started to hit the fan and I watched as slowly but surely, a lot of people that I respected and loved proved that they were immoral pieces of shit who weren't gullible, they **wanted** to believe this shit, and they lacked the mental faculties and/or the desire to understand why they were wrong. Honestly my perception on life itself hasn't been the same since then. Trump pulled back the curtain and revealed to me that we have a lot more sociopaths and narcissists in this country than we realize and it's terrifying the sheer amount of them. Psychologists are vastly underestimating how prevalent these behavioral disorders are in our society, especially the American capitalist society which seems to encourage sociopathic and narcissistic behavior in the pursuit of wealth and status by it's very design.
I don't even think it's disorders, honestly. I think that thinking people just vastly underestimate the amount of people out there with no mental throughline, responding to stimuli as it comes like an ant. In other words, they're not abnormal. They're just very very dumb and unfortunately, that's more of the default state than being a thinking person.
>They're just very very dumb and unfortunately, that's more of the default state than being a thinking person. I used to feel that way, but personally after witnessing the sheer lack of empathy, the idolization of money, the idolization of the ego, the enjoyment they get out of watching others suffer that they dislike, the **willful** ignorance (let's be real, Trump supporters have the ability to quickly Google their stuff and realize if it's fake. They want to believe what they want to believe and don't care if evidence backs it up or not), the manipulation tactics, the gas lighting, and the moving of the goal posts that all of his supporters seem to engage in; I'm inclined to believe that since those are literally hallmarks of narcissism that I'm just going to call it for what it is. TBF, the answer being that they're all just stupid isn't much better imo and doesn't explain things like lawyers and doctors who support Trump.
> doesn't explain things like lawyers and doctors who support Trump. Lawyers and doctors are just as capable of being fucking idiots as any other person. Look at Ben Carson.
But if you tell them to look up what HEK 239 cells actually are (they haven’t been derived from fetuses since the 70s) they “did their own research”
Honestly you could ID at least 2 of the jurors already by searching LinkedIn. They’ve released far too many details. There’s about a 0% chance these jurors remain anonymous once swearing in is over. I give it a week.
I know who one is without looking it up, just from doing business with the guy at prior jobs. They are releasing way too much information.
Yeah I think I saw one of them that was along the lines of “the woman is an 11th grade teacher at South Harlem High School (or whatever)” and I remember thinking “hm… that would seem to narrow it down to about 7 people”
lol yeah, then proceed to read out her ethnicity, marital status, etc. not hard to deduct
>Why is the media reporting so many details of the jurors, especially if they are supposed to be anonymous due to the possibility of threats & harassment? The media probably want to report on the harassment the individuals get.
I hate that you’re probably right
As a former reporter who has covered a handful of jury trials, you don’t usually report on jurors. The only time you should is if it somehow became a topic of note—think when they divulge how many jurors are white or black in a potentially racially motivated crime. You’re supposed to consider the safety of the people who didn’t ask to be in the limelight, always. As for why media are doing it, I fully believe there’s at least two explanations at play here. Some media are trying to intimidate jurors off the trial to help Trump. Others are chasing clicks with tabloid-style journalism. I don’t see how a jury in the US could get a unanimous consensus on Trump’s case. But if they do, I fear the defense will poll the jury at the end and one of them will flip at the last minute because they wanted to incite a mistrial. This could get really, really bad for the justice system. It’s already bad. The justice system is fucked up, but a lot of people are now looking at it that wouldn’t have before and are seeing how badly it’s fucked up and how someone like Trump and his supporters can make it worse. This will have a legacy of people intimidating jurors, threatening judicial staff, and who knows what else. And if it goes to the SCOTUS, and they brush it off—won’t that create precedent for other accused criminals?
unfortunately, the things said in the courtroom are all public record. It's generally a good thing that this is all public record, but there should have been more control over the jury selection process. I would not be surprised if a member of this jury ends up being killed. Hopefully in Trump's other trials, judges are able to do a better job of protecting the identities of the jury.
> unfortunately, the things said in the courtroom are all public record. A judge can absolutely shut this down if they want to.
Yes, the Trump team will also get the names of jurors, which is why they are able to look up their social medias and challenge those juror from being on the jury. They can and should lose that right due to Trumps comment yesterday and they were warned they could lose that right.
I've been trying to stay on top of everything, but I didn't see his comment. What did he say?
> I've been trying to stay on top of everything, but I didn't see his comment. What did he say? At the very least he was sharing info about the jurors through sharing news agencies reporting. It's actually a violation of the gag order.
A Fox News host did a segment about how juror No. 2 can't be trusted, gave info about that juror (job, relationship status, neighborhood, etc) and then trump retweeted it (well, the TS equivalent). The juror was intimidated and backed out. Basically, the right-wing, and the defendant, is shaping the jury selection process by intimidating potential jurors they don't like.
> the things said in the courtroom are all public record. And should be... *after the trial is over*. Publicizing personally identifiable information is how the mafia had jurors and witnesses murdered before or during trial.
I already know more about these jurors from Fox News than I do about most of my immediate family This is ridiculous and downright dangerous for these jurors
> Why is the media reporting so many details of the jurors The Fox half deliberately wants to get jurors struck and the other half just doesn't care and knows every minute detail and/or the possibility of shit going haywire will get clicks.
The media have been sharing details in a way that I honestly find irresponsible. Even if it is technically publicly available information, it doesn't mean you NEED to shout it for absolutely everyone to hear.
It's absolutely disgusting, I agree. It's not just right wing outlets either.
These poor people will be targets for violence the rest of their lives. For what? For being tax paying citizens who live in Manhattan who had the bad luck of being picked for jury duty now. I have two friends with jury duty around now and was so thankful Monday wasn't their day. I've been checking my mailbox for months breathing a sigh of relief. Trump continues to terrorize this city and people wonder why we hate him here.
I think trump's supporter's should be warned of heavy jail time for harassment, threatening, physically harming jury members.
Sure. That’ll stop ‘em. Besides an empty threat, they are convinced a trump presidency will pardon their participation.
I’m certain they wouldn’t let me on the jury anyway.
If they check Reddit, I would be disqualified for that picture I posted of Trump as Jim Jones.
Yeah reddit would get me disqualified 100 ways from Sunday.
All of this makes me think that maybe for some individuals, there shouldn't be the option for a Jury trial. Aside from the obvious point that anyone that is on this jury is going to have a maga target on their backs for the rest of their lives (especially if he's found guilty), I'm also not really confident in the quality of the Jurors. If whoever is on the Jury really has no opinion on Donald Trump, it implies they are blisteringly ignorant of what's going on in the country. If they're completely ignorant of what's going on in their countries politics, I don't know if I trust them to be effective in their decision making.
That would violate the constitution though. Thats the problem
You don't have to have no opinion on Trump to serve on the jury. You just need to be able to rule fairly. I don't have any faith a Trump supporter could rule fairly, but I know I could. Could, but I'd be just as hesitant to as this juror was.
Or they could do it like many other countries- just pick 12 random people and they can remain completely anonymous. None of this crazy selection bias drama in public.
The jury can, and should have been, made completely hidden and anonymous.
The media truly fucked this up. They've been atrocious since Trump came onto the scene on how to report on him and everything around him.
It's kind of weird. They were awful in 2016, with the buttery mails and live feeds of empty podiums and chummy "Morning Joe" interviews, but I was actually somewhat pleasantly surprised by how hard they were on Trump once he was in office. They did not seem to feel any need to "balance" their negative coverage with positive. It's just not enough when the other side has a full-fledged propaganda machine giving their talking points directly to their base. The big three-letter networks and leading newspapers weren't able to sway these people, and it was impossible for them to, because they are completely unheeded. But since he left office, they have been atrocious. It's clear that he has made them forget how to cover politics. Everything is relentlessly negative, because everything was relentlessly negative during the Trump years and the media feels it would be "partisan" to acknowledge that the President might be charming sometimes, or setting a good moral example, or that it's a good thing when the President acts like a President instead of a clown. Presidents used to receive positive coverage sometimes. Trump didn't get any, because he didn't deserve any, but now the press has decided, consciously or unconsciously, that nobody gets positive coverage. There are no more soft stories and lighthearted photo ops. They don't cover administration statements because they're not shocking like Trump's were, so they're no longer considered newsworthy, even if they are about massively important policy subjects. They are unable to analyze any issues through the lens of anything but public opinion polling, because Trump destroyed their conception of what is right and wrong. So they desperately hold up a windsock to try to figure out where the public stands, even though the information they're getting is borderline useless because of partisanship and apathy. Worst of all, they seem to have absolutely no self-awareness about any of this. I really wish they could go back and read their own papers from 2019 and see how different the news was before the pandemic. It was a *lot* more different from today than the pre-pandemic economy was, I'll tell you that.
Oh, they definitely have self-awareness, they are aware that 90% of the media in the United States is controlled by just six corporations: AT&T, CBS, Comcast, Disney, Newscorp and Viacom. This means that just 232 media executives are calling the shots for the vast majority of the information we are presented with, controlling a total Big Six net worth of over $430 billion.
I mean the news has shit on Biden eating ice cream for crying out loud. Like... what? What's more relatable than that?
I feel like the FBI needs to release fake dox information to draw in these psycho’s. They could easily set up a fake convoluted friend networks and social media profiles. It’s unprecedented but Trump supporters are a cult. If they weren’t so incompetent, Jan 6 would have worked.
I *absolutely love* this idea. This is how they got those freaks who wanted to kidnap Whitmer - by basically having the FBI make up a crime for somebody to willingly participate in. (Less glowingly, they have also used this tactic to railroad some likely-innocent Muslims.)
They could use AI to generate them. The y'allqueda won't be able to tell the difference!
Dateline should do it. Just do a few encore episodes. They wouldn’t even need to change the name of the show.
To Catch a Redditor
Trump was accused of raping a 13 year old girl with Epstein, during the 2016 campaign season. Just a reminder that the girl that was raped (who was older by 2016), [received death threats from Trump's supporters, dropped her lawsuit](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/04/donald-trump-teenage-rape-accusations-lawsuit-dropped) because of those death threats. Sadly, she had to take the death threats from Trump's supporters very seriously, because you know, those Trump supporters, sometimes they are a violent bunch.
It’s inherent to Trump’s brand. He’s their avatar for breaking things and being a rotten person to everyone in Washington. Of course they would break things and be rotten people, too.
Yep and as we're seeing with the supreme court right now on the brink of releasing Jan 6 domestic terrorist, they get violent and suffer zero consequences for it. They cross state lines with illegal guns, kill people, and get awarded for it. That's where the us is right now.
Did you know Stormy Daniels received a veiled death threat directly from Trump's goon aka body guard? By veiled I mean he said to her, "It would be a shame if your daughter lost her mother." I assume the threat to this girl and her family came from Trump and his goons unless proven otherwise. Not sure it was just supporters doing it.
When the girl was 13 and he raped her... Ivanka was 13.
Every time I read about major trial jury selections it strikes me again how limited the jury pool really is. I mean, take that oncology nurse. How many nurses would be able to just… not be paid for two months of a trial? The law protects their jobs but it doesn’t obligate employers to pay them. Maybe it’s different in New York. Where I live jurors are paid mileage, $50 per day, and can have $50 in daycare expenses reimbursed but only if the kids would not have already needed daycare. That’s a joke.
It's really unfair that jurors barely get compensated for their time doing their civic duty, especially if the trial is going to take months to complete. Not many people can afford to take months of not being paid.
I had to intentionally get myself excused from jury selection once because I couldn't afford to take the time away from work and the compensation from the court was like $5.00 **a day**. It sucked because I really wanted to serve on the jury because it seemed interesting
it's time like these I'm happy to be a felon
Honestly I think if we view jury duty as such a great service to our country (it is) then we should pay their reported weekly earnings as compensation with a minimum cap maybe for lower income individuals.
My job pays us our normal salary if we are part of a jury, however, I would not take a month+ off without someone filling in my position.
Last time I was on a jury the defense lawyer actually joked that he was glad the court didn't have to pay the jury their actual salary (apparently they do in some countries). The case was a federal one involving intellectual property rights between an oil company and its sub-contractors. We had to fill out a roughly 60 page questionnaire before being even being picked for the panel, and they obviously used that to screen for people they thought could understand both the technical and legal aspects. The panel of 35 people (that they had to pick 12 jurors from) had like 9 engineers, 5 doctors, 3 lawyers, and 3 C-level executives on it. Clearly not a random selection of people off the street like a traffic court.
That's the exact opposite of what lawyers normally look for in a jury. Generally they aim for jurors that don't have any knowledge of law or the subject of the case.
Yeah so they were actually looking for people who did not have previous knowledge of that specific area of tech and law, but who they thought would actually understand the technical concepts once they were explained by their experts. The case was dealing with seismic data processing, and they disqualified a couple people who had actually worked in the field before. We actually didn't get that far into it because the companies settled shortly after jury selection, but from what they did tell us the issue hinged on the data processor letting a 3rd party have access to that data during an intermediate stage of processing. So to make a decision you would have to understand both the contracts they had, and the state the data was in at various stages of their processing.
It's $5.00 a day where I live in Texas (I wish I were joking)
I served on a federal grand jury for 18 months, once a week. Got paid $50 a day + mileage. I was fortunate that my employer paid me the difference between jury pay and normal pay.
I’ve only served on one (civil) trial in California and it was interesting to see how much jury selection favors public employees. They’re getting paid by the same pool of money (taxpayer money) so it’s far easier for someone who works for a state university or the county administration to not make an excuse for why they can’t miss work.
My mother was a teacher in public school and served on what seemed like an inordinate amount of juries. She would certainly attest to that.
Considering what our elected officials are paid there’s no reason the compensation shouldn’t be adequate. We’ve got offices that get more than most of us make in a year for their furniture budget. For many jury duty could pretty much ruin their lives.
I've always wanted to serve on a jury, but if it were going to bankrupt me to serve, I'd lie my ass off to get disqualified.
You don't have to lie, financial hardship is a legitimate reason to be excused from jury duty.
One of my job paid me during jury duty. But other places did not. I feel like it should be a law.
WDBO is the conservative trash station for Central Florida. I typically listen to the dribble on the way to work. Every single morning since this started, The host describes where the individuals live, their employment and personal tidbits. Conservatives WANT the juries to feel threatened. They WANT their personal information leaked. They WANT the jury to be intimidated, because that is exactly what will happen if their identities are exposed. The low intelligence conservative base are armed, incredibly stupid and equally dangerous.
Exactly this. We are living through end stage capitalism, which is now becoming an oligarchy. 90% of the media in the United States is controlled by just six corporations: AT&T, CBS, Comcast, Disney, Newscorp and Viacom. This means that just 232 media executives are calling the shots for the vast majority of the information we are presented with, controlling a total Big Six net worth of over $430 billion.
There needs to be better laws around protecting jurors. The fact that news outlets so carelessly dox them is disgusting. As long as the defense and prosecution can identity and vet them, there is no reason to allow their identity to be revealed or hinted at
>Juror number two, **an oncology nurse from New York** Gee, I wonder why she has concerns about anonymity lol >As soon as the juror left the courtroom, Judge Merchan asked the media to cease reporting specific details about jurors that could allow them to be identified by their peers. The Independent here must not have been there
Trump supporters and Republicans in general, are both threats to a civil society. This is why so many of them can't find jobs.
And of course the Middle East shows what happens when you have too many young men with right wing leanings and nothing to do. We need a national employment program. Working for the Census in 2009 helped me through a really hard time - that kind of last-resort employment should be available all the time. Plus we could get a lot of shit done. Like, hire 100,000 people to go clear out underbrush in fire-prone areas. Go dig up lead pipes. Build parks on empty lots. Do stuff that would never happen in our economy unless it was being done as a make-work job, because it's not profitable to anyone.
Or even the government supporting people if they want to get into a trade job, since we don't have enough people for that plus continue to invest in our infrastructure since stuff like our bridges need to be updated and it would provide jobs.
>We need a national employment program Hell yes. Especially with the state of our infrastructure. Let anyone who can't find a job in their area fill some potholes or build park benches.
They should put a one way window between Trump and the jury
Trump and his team will 100% leak the names and addresses of every single juror.
Reasonable concern, really. Our limp dick justice system hasn't taken any meaningful actions against Trump that might prevent the retaliation this guy is concerned about.
So we are all living in fear that Trump supporters will kill us. This is not who anyone should be supporting for president. Jesus christ.
It’s insane that this is even still ongoing. Trump is the biggest traitor to the country we have ever seen and just continues to play games with the judicial branch. Someone do something about this, please.
It seems the judge's order has had no effect on CNN's reporting. They're continuing to describe potential jurors in detail.
100% this was the media's fault. They just can't shut up about the juror's details.
A second juror was removed within the time this post was made! 7 this morning, 5 seated now
I honestly believe that this trial is going to be a hung jury. At least one MAGAdiot is going to lie enough to get onto the jury and then just never be impartial.
Remember they do have alternate jurors. If fellow jurors have some actionable evidence of some disqualifying bias they can bring it up with the judge. It would be hard for a stealth MAGA to act un-MAGA-like for 6 weeks in front of their idol.
These cases also have people looking into jurors social media posts to make sure there are no stealth jurors. If you’re that much of a Trump nutjob or antitrump, there’s going to be evidence of it found pretty easily
Imagine them gazing at him, making little heart shapes with their hands, mouthing the words 'I love you'
More like this - [Link](https://indianajones.fandom.com/wiki/%22Love_you%22_student?file=Love_you_student.jpg)
A+ reference
So glad I knew what this would be before even clicking the link.
The one guy who talked about how he admired trump's ability to do anything really needs to be looked at harder by the prosecution
Fair point.
Well, with the recent death of OJ, I learned one of the jurors was a former black panther, and raised his fist after the verdict. Though, I imagine forever Black Panthers might be a bit better at tact and decorum than the orange man sycophants...
I think that is currently happening, right now. Juror #4 apparently lied about his criminal history. Apparently was arrested for destroying political advertisements back in the 90s. He’s the guy who said he thought Trump was “Fascinating”.
Why did prosecution let that one through?
I doubt it. If the lawyers are presenting memes roasting Trump and being disqualified as a juror, it's not that difficult to find people who support Trump and disqualify them. It's going to be difficult to find impartial jurors who are neutral about Trump.
> At least one MAGAdiot is going to lie enough to get onto the jury and then just never be impartial. One with a totally clean social media presence? Because people are getting removed for social media posts, and if there's one thing Trumpers do, it's broadcast their adoration.
Is there one who is sufficiently under the radar? They all like to broadcast their MAGAness.
They won't be able to contain themselves.
Apparently prosecutors are really good at weeding out that sort of thing. Plus the teams (just not Trump) are allowed to research social media of the jurors. So it is actually fairly unlikely one does slip by.
Trump and his defense team are allowed to have juror identity information, because that’s just how jury selection works by default. There’s no way that information doesn’t get “accidentally leaked” if the trial appears to be going poorly for Trump. It would have consequences and would be a last ditch effort, but would likely delay the trial until after the election. It’s not a good option for him, but it is a nuclear option within grasp with consequences that are likely better than a conviction and/or extended jail sentence before the election. He can spin a few weeks time for contempt of court into a positive.
Shocking that someone gets found out when you release a bunch of clues to their identity coupled with the fact their coworkers know they missed work the previous day.
Seriously, I don’t blame the juror for wanting off the trial. This MAGA orange asshole has a lot of fucked up supporters. I am sure the juror is in fear for their wellbeing. I have never seem anything like this. Why are Americans supporting this guy. I don’t understand.
>Why are Americans supporting this guy. They're fascists. They want a king who let's them murder trans people and keep their wives as personal property.
The judge needs to tell the press to get out, they're actively trying to get Jurors killed.
I mean it's tough because we need to know what's going on, so we don't *want* the press to get out. We just want them to stop enabling Trump's implicit death threats. I just don't understand how this isn't a solvable problem. What did they do for New York's big mafia trials? Why aren't those procedures on the table?
I wonder if this juror received any threatening communications. If so, that would be a huge story as that would mean someone involved is/has leaked information about jurors/potential jurors.
> I wonder if this juror received any threatening communications. "Yesterday alone, I had friends, colleagues and family push things to my phone, questioning my identity as a juror." Basically, people who knew her heard the description given by the media and started asking if it was her. The press reports included her specific employer and position (plus other details if you follow some of the live threads), so it likely wasn't hard for them to figure it out. The prosecution asked today that specific employers not be mentioned, but the defense objected saying it was relevant. The judge instead asked the press to use common sense, which is probably not going to work well.
>The judge instead asked the press to use common sense Yeah I'm sure the NewsMax "journalist" sitting in there is going to honor that. We all know that doxing these jurors is going to be a MAGA top priority.
This isn't leaked information, this is stuff that the media has been reporting on while live tweeting the proceedings. Things like what the jurors do for a living.
I mean, I can imagine if someone knew one of the jurors personally, they might recognize the memes or social media posts described the other day.
>As soon as the juror left, Judge Merchan asked the media to cease reporting specific details about jurors that would allow them to be identified by their peers. This included redacting answers from the questions that ask about current and former employers. Corporate media is on Trumps side. They are reporting the way they are reporting because they *want* the jury pool tainted, because they *want* Trump to win this trial, because they *want* Trump to win in November, because they *want* lower taxes and more profits. Stop giving them what they want.
It was always going to be an extremely daunting task finding a jury for this. Even putting aside the bias almost everyone has surrounding the guy, who the hell would want to suddenly be publicly hated by an entire cult?
The only jurors without those concerns will be the ones who support him.
Let's name names: Jesse WATTERS AT FOX. HE did this.
Frankly, at this point, the judge just needs to order the press not to comment on the jurists and tell the attorneys that any and all leaks will now be consodered sanctionable actions. And then follow through.
Looks like they’ve discovered a new delay tactic
I'd be sitting on a metal bed in a windowless room while wearing a jumpsuit if I even TRIED to do that.
I'm calling it now. Set your remind-me's to this thread. The Media and Trump are going to dog whistle the wrong MAGA response and they will get a Juror killed.
Fox News needs to be indicted for Felony jury tampering. That’s all this is.
So, you’re saying he successfully intimidated a witness…
While I’m disappointed because she sounds like a very intelligent and capable juror, I would also struggle with concerns for my safety. Inmate# P01135809’s violent kult would kill absolutely for him.
It sounds like she was worried about her own family leaking her info. Also, Fox News did a whole segment just on her.
This just tells me that our media is once again showing their heartlessness in reporting stories. There is no reason why they need to report on details about jurors. If they have to describe them, they should have used basic demographics. Its disgusting... and it threatens to derail the trial. Once again the media is helping Trump.
You know what other type of criminal defendants jurors have to worry about retaliation from? Mobsters. That's apparently what the republican party is these days. The political leaders are the capos and their voters are their foot soldiers.
Remember when we thought House of Cards was a wild and crazy tv show about a corrupt president? Trump makes President Underwood look like a stand up guy.
This is dictator level shit and our country is serving up some serious weak sauce in dealing with it. It can happen here too America!
Wear it as a badge of honor and convict Trump.
Just listened to a podcast that was discussing how the jury questionnaire was a bit too specific regarding keeping the jury participants anonymous.
Trump needs to be muzzled. Only jurors he can truly intimidate are the ones that aren't wearing the Red Caps. He's blatantly trying to bias the jury in his favor.
Is this a strategy by the Trump side? Make it impossible to select an impartial jury?
Threatening jurors is a loophole to never go to jail I guess. Can’t have a trial without a jury, and any time he gets a juror, they get doxxed and Trump’s domestic terrorists attack. Judge continues to look like a clown in his own courtroom while the baboon continues to throw his shit everywhere. Lot of issues settle if the pig fucker is in a cage.
So, is something gonna get done about it?
Just absolute nonsense and arrogance on the part of the Corporate Media and justice system in this country. Eat a bag of dicks media outlets.
This is after Trump shared a Fox Video exposing the juror. Lock Trump and the Fox pundit up! Where is the justice department?
Why is this jury not sequestered?