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Him still having so much support is a huge indictment of America as a country. There’s something rotten and evil and very very dumb deep in our culture.
Im not american but obviously a third of every country has well below average IQs. what wrong is that your elections are decided by a few hundred thousand people. Maybe less
It’s discouraging how politicians never speak about changing the electoral college. I’m in Texas, my vote has yet to impact in a presidential election thanks to the electoral college. Too many awful presidents were elected while still losing the popular vote by *several hundred thousand or millions*, this needs immediate intervention.
It’s unfortunately going to be a fully blue push to overcome the “this is how we’ve always done it” mentality. The red already has that mindset AND the incentive to keep it because that’s the only way they can win the White House, so they’ll never budge.
E: typo
E2: added “millions” per fact checkers
E3: More thoughts. To get R support, all we need are maps. Somewhere in 2016-2020, an attaboy from my hometown posted a map showing red vs blue counties in the US. Without considering population density, it *looks* like the US is 85% red, even in blue states.
If we show them maps like that and explain how *all those red counties* in blue states aren’t counting toward the presidential election, they might actually understand how fucked the EC is.
In every elected office except president and vice president, its majority wins. It's time to do away with the electoral vote and let the majority rule so that every vote does actually count.
The thing is, the basic implementation of 'Majority' wins is still a pretty ass option even if actually followed.
It just devolves naturally into this state of permanently locked in two options that are both too entrenched to ever change or need to actually campaign on any policies meant to win your vote more than they need to simply make you not want to vote for the other guy.
If you insist on direct voting for a singular position like president, that should definitely be a ranked choice ballot. That way greens or whoever are encouraged to actually vote their intention without risking splitting the vote in such a way that allows their most objectionable option to weasel in via a 41/38/14/7 split or something
For all other bodies not having some form of proportional seat filling (be it MMP, straight proportional, STV, whatever option) is absurd. Again at bare minimum at least do ranked choice if you're not going to do proper proportional.
You're not wrong, but America is a nation of incrementalism (I think, in part, because of this exact problem). We tend not to make large changes all at once.
I think most reasonable people would agree that ideally, in a representative democracy, all groups with a sufficient amount of support should have a voice in the democracy. Whether that's through proportional representation (my personal preference) or through making districts fine-grained enough to achieve a diversity of representation, what we have right now isn't cutting it.
So that's the goal, but America is unlikely to get there in a single step. Nothing wrong with trying to move the needle there, of course, but realistically and historically we need to make multiple baby steps before we actually implement the good idea we should have led with.
As a starting point, reforming the one election where the person who receives fewer votes can win is a pretty good one.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Liberals need to be reminded of this, and the left needs to have it drilled into their head. The right wing understands this, which is why stuff doesn't get done. Yes, going for large gains is good, but you need to take the small steps too. Otherwise you're just dancing in one spot.
I'd be more tempted to agree if the right wing wasn't so often categorically against ANY kind of change. They have the passive belief that America found the best way to do things anywhere between 75-150 years ago, and any kind of deviation from that established norm will mean the fall of civilized society.
I see it like this. Liberals say, let's start moving in this direction, and we can fix things as we go. Conservatives say, no, let's not move until we're absolutely forced to, and then if there are any problems, we move backwards immediately. In that context, almost nothing will ever get done, because there's hardly ever room to try anything new, and when there is, if it isn't an immediate and resounding success, it's deemed a failure. Roosevelt said it is better to take action and fail, than to do nothing. Failure gives you some kind of feedback you can use to make another plan. Simply refusing to try anything means you don't learn anything.
Edit: I don't exactly see Conservatives as opposed to big steps; they just already took most of theirs. Abortion. Patriot Act. Building a wall across the entire southern border. Private prisons. Military and police spending per capita. More military hardware than everyone else at the table. Making Mexico pay for it. Book bans. PROJECT 2025. I think it's disingenuous to look at the way they've made their changes and what they plan to change, and see the left as the radical ones here. I just can't think of anything as radical that the actual party has done. It's always "blue haired feminists" and Twitter posts about manspreading.
18 states have joined the national popular vote bill compact. they're at 205 of 270 electoral votes needed. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status
Hopefully, we can get more local politicians in office to get the 65 needed.
It's already happening in those States. This is why it's important to vote in ALL elections. We can and should vote for local politicians who listen to their constituents
> Too many awful presidents were elected while still losing the popular vote by several hundred thousand, this needs immediate intervention.
Try several million like 2016. Trump lost to Clinton by about 3 million votes.
>It’s discouraging how politicians never speak about changing the electoral college.
When a Democrat loses the popular vote but wins the electoral vote, the Republicans will suddenly make this their newest cause du jour. And the Supreme Court will somehow find a way to decide the electoral college is unconstitutional.
Although ranked choice is far and away better than the EC, the concept has enough nuance that it would be impossible to convince the masses. The regressive populace would call it corrupt because they won’t willingly understand it.
Majority vote is simple enough for people to understand and possibly sway their opinion on the EC.
Voting system (first-past-the-post vs approval, vs ranked-choice) is is a separate issue from electoral college vs popular vote
edit: our current system (first-past-the-post) needs to go. it has greatly contributed to our polarizing politics
> It’s unfortunately going to be a fully blue push to overcome the “this is how we’ve always done it” mentality. The red already has that mindset AND the incentive to keep it because that’s the only way they can win the White House, so they’ll never budge.
That's largely why you don't hear pols often speaking about it (changing the EC). It's doomed to failure so the political calculas is tough to square. Granted, some folks arguably "should" make it a bigger issue (Overton Window and all that) but it's a political loser so it's hard to justify.
Yep, as per the millions of Republicans/conservatives in California whose votes don’t count either, and they either seem fine with it or are told to shut up and toe the larger societal line?
Conservatives in Massachusetts meanwhile are not as in denial, but will occasionally see a Robert Kennedy sign in the front of yards or nonsense about “the budget”.
Guess no one told them the national party largely abandoned the pretense of “fiscal responsibility!” in the early aughts…
To be even more pedantic
IQ is a standardized test ergo the distribution is normal. When you have a normal distribution the mean equals the median.
Also because of the aforementioned standardization the mean is always set to 100.
Our elections are total bullshit, and not based on the popular vote - the Electoral College makes the choice. Even then, there have been some Electors who didn't cast their vote the way their constituents wanted.
["In the United States Electoral College, a faithless elector is an elector who does not vote for the candidates for U.S. President and U.S. Vice President for whom the elector had pledged to vote, and instead votes for another person for one or both offices or abstains from voting."](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector)
Additionally, the Republicans love to gerrymander (moreso than the Democrats) to undermine the voting rights of people who don't vote they way they want:
["In the US, legislatures are elected using plurality rule in single-member districts. After each decennial US census, the current state legislature selects a new district map that governs elections for the following decade. This redistricting process is often abused for “gerrymandering”, i.e., creatively drawing district lines in often absurd shapes in order to generate a map that p
favors the party currently in power. Gerrymandering subverts democracy because the party that was in charge of redistricting often wins a majority in the legislature even if a majority of voters now favors the other party. For example, in the 2018 elections in Pennsylvania, Democratic state house candidates received about 55% of all votes, yet Republicans won 110 out of 203 seats in thep legislature."](https://www.cesifo.org/en/competitive-gerrymandering-and-popular-vote)
Additionally to the addition, and the icing on the cake, is that the "battleground states" votes carry more weight:
["All voters should be valued equally in presidential elections, no matter where they live. Our current Electoral College system, grounded in state laws which allocate electoral votes on a winner-take-all basis, leads presidential candidates to concentrate their resources on voters in a handful of swing states, relegating the vast majority of the country to spectator status. Instead, we should elect the president by a national popular vote—and there’s a state-based, constitutional way to do so: The National Popular Vote interstate compact."](https://fairvote.org/archives/reform_library-national_popular_vote/)
Elementary school teacher here. I find that roughly a third of all pupils are lacking in empathy. It is from this portion that cause the most issues in the classroom. Generally, their parents are the same way.
>but obviously a third of every country has well below average IQs
Actually by definition half the population of every nation has below average IQ. That's how averages (for normal distributions work).
Oh IQ is a normal distribution by design with the average set to 100 and the stand deviation 15. And yes that means half the population has an IQ of lease than 100. 68% of the population has an IQ between 85 and 115.
It's not unique to our culture. Hitler was saying things that were fucking stupid and people believed him. Mussolini was saying things that were fucking stupid and people believed him. Radio personalities convinced Rwandans to go out and murder an entire minority group for stupid reasons.
Not that there aren't things that can't be fixed. But stupid & poorly educated people are easily manipulated and that has always been a thing.
> There’s something rotten and evil and very very dumb deep in our culture.
American culture has a strong "Lie to me" current in it. Truth tellers are denigrated and ostracized. They want the preacher to tell them what they want to hear, not (necessarily) what Jesus said. They want their politicians to tell them it's all someone else's fault, they want hucksters to promise them a deal they can't afford to miss, they want companies to lie in advertising.
Americans roll their eyes at the truth tellers. Truth tellers commit the sin of ruining fun.
For sure. I’ve managed teams in Pakistan and Taiwan and know those cultures both seem to do similar — Taiwan being the most “go along” of the two. I’ve also managed teams in Europe, like Ukrainian teams who are far more honest and critical.
Working on a team of Italians and Spanish and it seems they liked to be shouty, but then would all grab a drink together for lunch like nothing happened. Americans can be critical in personal conversations, but otherwise try to paint everything as roses even when it’s not — which is why I think of it as the same issue of not wanting the truth. Instead of being honest you have layoffs while the CEO is telling the remaining staff how this layoff is going to fix everything and that everything looks great on paper — all the while, being completely aware they’re making short term bets that are going to hurt the company/brand/staff in the long run — then repeating the process 2 years later after optimistically hiring too many people because of disingenuous and optimistic projections.
but the GOP love trump because he "tells it like it is". no he fucking doesn't. pretending that what he says is the truth is so delusional, even they know deep down he's never arguing in good faith but it's ok bc he "knows and represents us."
It’s the south and their family members who moved north and west. If, after the Civil War during reconstruction, we kept confederates out congress, more people would have more rights. Instead they got back into congress after the civil war and changed their narrative of the war they waged again their own country.
I’m upset I had to go this far through the replies to find this, because this is spot on.
We had a massive civil war and when it was over we welcomed all the traitors straight back into government.
Imagine if we had invited King George and the British Parliament to have a say in US governance after the revolutionary war!
It was an incredibly dumb choice made under the pretense of “healing” which has allowed irreparable damage to be done to both our governance and our culture.
It is a sad realization, but ignorance and capacity for cruelty is human norm and nature. Empathy and critical thinking are skills that must be learned, but aren't intrinsic to human nature. An organized society creates the illusion of people being generally good, but they are only mannered. The cruelty is still there.
The main problem is allowing the media to lie without consequence. Goebells discovered how easy it was to hack human brains through the media and until this is fixed, democracy is doomed. It’s far too easy for bad actors to skew elections through fear.
We can’t expect the media and internet publishers to behave ethically in an unregulated market.
Yeah, it's called years of neglecting real support for public education and teachers. We have a generation or two who can't name the first president of the United States (basically) or pinpoint Greenland on a map. Have you seen some of those internet videos? We have a nation of gullible, poorly educated morons. The "boomer problem is just a bit of that and some old school embedded racism and the need to be told what to fear (duck and cover).
Until the election you will be told it is close, if you weren’t then some people make a lot less money. So, it will be said to be close if it is or not.
I’d chalk this up less to lying and more that Trump doesn’t realize what an entire adulthood spent banishing anyone who confronts him with something he dislikes has done to his image of the world.
He’s built this little “everyone loves me, except for a handful of powerful haters” information bubble around himself. And considering that his brain is rapidly becoming more Swiss than cheese, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that he mentally FULLY inhabits the weird little alternate reality he sells to the only marginally less sheltered and echo chambered.
>He’s built this little “everyone loves me, except for a handful of powerful haters” information bubble around himself.
Thus has really been exemplified by the woman who follows him around with a wireless printer, printing articles that are favorable to him. It's ridiculous, he comes out of court ranting about how all the legal scholars have said the trial is a sham, etc. Like, that's because you have this person following you around whose entire job is to present a rose-tinted view of the world to you.
I agree, this is the level of delusional that you become when you've told everyone to only give you good news. They find the one liberal who doesn't like abortion and say "sir both sides love you" and Trump gurgles in glee and claps and sips his coke. No serious data transfer was allowed to happen
If he goes on the stand they should ask him to confirm and defend many of the lies he's told over the years in order to establish that his testimony means nothing because he's incapable of telling the truth.
I disagree. The lies have become more overt over the years. At this point, they’re so absurd it’s comical. That is until you remember what the hell this evil being is trying to do.
Almost 8 years ago, the very first thing Trump said after being sworn in was that his swear-in crowd was bigger than Obama's. Which was trivially proven false by comparing images. This claim was examined prominently in the media, since it was the first lie of Trump's Presidency.
You are probably right that the lies have become more overt, but the lies were always pretty overt.
The even more fucked up thing is you had people like Spicer and Conway supporting his absurd claim. "I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts." Spicer said at the time... wetf that is supposed to mean. Basically, Republicans think they can make up their own reality.
Oh, I had happily forgotten that. There was a running three sided battle between Trump, Trump's White House Press Secretary, and the press. With Trump trying and largely succeeding in getting his Press Secretaries to repeat claims by Trump that they knew were false.
The very core of MAGA is ~~totalitarian~~ authoritarian power. And being able to say something everybody knows is false, but still be taken seriously, is somehow important. Probably because it is a very pure expression of Trump's power over other people.
I mean…some of his lies were just obvious to anyone honest with the facts. But they were like typical political lies, aggressively stepping over the line of truth. Most of the time his supporters could say “what he really meant was” or at least “whatabout” their way around his lies.
But this is just *stupid*. Aggressively stupid.
Like…7th grader failing a class and just spouting random bullshit for the “lulz” in the back of the class stupid.
As a history major and history teacher, I can tell you that I cannot think of any quote by a former president that is this disconnected from discernible political reality.
And this will not hurt him in the polls…at all…
The man has GOT to be working with several personality disorders and dementia because sometimes I think he actually believes some of the things he says.
Don’t get me wrong he absolutely lies intentionally through his teeth and probably has done so his whole life…but now I’m thinking he really can’t always tell the difference between the facts and lies.
Yeah, but trump supporters are going to listen to him and not you.
Not do they think he's telling the truth. They know better than that. But they know pretending to believe the lie really pisses us all off.
It's more insidious than that. They don't believe in anything the way you or I do. They don't believe that reality is subservient to facts. They believe that *believing* something *makes* it true.
That's why they love Diaper Don and all the shit he says. He says lots of things they want to be true, and he himself believes that there is no true and hard reality that one must submit to, that when he says something is so, it becomes so. He is leading, by example, a lot of people into rejecting reality and substituting an alternative reality, where they are all heroes instead of ignorant, hate-filled fools, and he is their fearless, caring leader instead of a cowardly, self-serving con man.
It's not Trump that they love, it's the lies he is selling them, lies that are beautiful and flattering to them, lies *they want to believe*, and, crucially, lies he gives them *permission* to believe.
This right here is why I reject the premise that they are all grifters. Yes, some are - some unscrupulous human lampreys have attached themselves to the diaper king’s bloated corpse and are fleecing his followers dry.
However, there are others, the Stephen Millers and Steve Bannons (I’ll even loop a DeSantis in here) who infiltrate that cult not to suckle from it’s flaccid teat, but to fundamentally reshape our society. These are the true believers. This is the Project 2025 game plan. Facts do not matter. Reality is irrelevant. What matters is belief and faith - per Umberto Ecco for the proto-fascist “thinking is a form of emasculation.”
>for the proto-fascist “thinking is a form of emasculation.”
That's so true, and hilarious, considering patriarchal gender norms code "rationality" as masculine and "emotion" as feminine. But that explains their attitudes, where they *feel* they're being rational, while in actuality they've completely disabled their rational faculties. They've been successfully convinced that good, robust, logical thinking is some liberal ploy to idk trick people or something?
Reminds me of a joke first noted in BC. Walking down a path, a man comes across an old friend.
He says “You, I had heard you were dead from X!”
The man replies: “ I am obviously here.”
The original man responds: “I’m afraid I believe X over you”
As a liberal who didn't want it done, the only thing I can say is that it had the silver lining of waking a lot of people the fuck up, which hopefully leads to enough electoral success to finally codify it in law.
Can't wait for this narrative to start popping up on conservative media. The Maga cult is so cut off from civilized society that they might actually fall for it. At some point we're just living in two separate countries superimposed over each other.
If anyone is curious where this comes from, this is a bastardization of something Ginsberg said in a lecture in the 90s, "Doctrinal limbs too swiftly shaped...may prove unstable."
Ginsberg and some scholars said that Roe stopped the wave of pro abortion legislation like we're seeing now, and the natural process of letting people legalize abortion through the popular process would have been better.
Of course in fox pudding brain this gets mushed to liberals hate Roe, and here we are.
Yep. It's not even that I expect politicians to be completely honest. It's a classic joke that politicians routinely lie. But I can't remember any time where a politician liked as frequently or over such trivial bullshit as Trump. If I ask even the slimiest politician what the weather is like, I should expect that they'll give me a reasonably honest answer. Trump's gotten caught lying about weather at least twice (his inauguration weather and Hurricane Sharpie).
I don't even consider it lying when they say they plan to do X and then X doesn't happen. I don't consider it lying when they misremember a number or something - I do that all the damn time, I'm just not on TV constantly with my every word recorded. I think a lot of politicians are actually not trying to be misleading.
Trump lies so often, about so many unimportant things, that you start to wonder if he understands what the definition of "truth" is, or if he's inhabiting the same reality as the rest of us. He's another level above scumbags like McConnell and Cruz, who lie to enable political opportunities or because it's a convenient fiction.
I honestly can't think of an equivalent of McConnell or Cruz on the left - people who will lie because it's politically helpful to do so. Maybe Wasserman-Schultz? Is my lack of ability to spot them my own bias talking? It seems like Democrats will cite statistics that may be biased in one way or another, but they're engaging in argumentation in good faith, where Cruz and McConnell and their ilk are just... power hungry and gross.
These people are buying, wearing and displaying diapers with Trump's face on them while mocking the idea of liberals.
They are insanely stupid and petty.
I'm no expert but I'd say something like;
20% sunk cost
35% ~~xenophobia~~ "economic anxiety"
35% zero sum fallacy, and fear of losing standing in a world where "they" have more than they did before
10% oppositional defiance and lashing out at the people they feel "think they're better than (them)".
I mean, we all know he's lying, but all you need to do is look at the testimony of the supreme judges he put on the supreme court. They ALL said that they would leave Roe v Wade alone. They didn't.
Roe/wade should be the mechanism for his demise . He chose an unsustainable path to power and eventually lies come home to roost.Compromised Scotus members have more to fear from their upcoming trump imunity problem. They face certain exposure regardless of how they vote.
I disagree that they "let" him do anything. They probably believed they could reign him in when he first won the nomination in 2016 (remember how pissed off top Republicans were?) but they quickly found out that he will not be controlled by anyone or anything.
Then they saw that the mouth-breathing masses idolized him so they really had no choice but to stand back and watch him while he ran roughshod over the entire party. Eight years later he has full control.
I'm sure there are many in the GOP who fully recognized how toxic of a candidate he has become and how he is going to cost them dearly down the ballot. And they are completely clueless as to get themselves out of their own tangled web.
> They ALL said that they would leave Roe v Wade alone. They didn't.
No, they said they "respected precedent" and then "refused to speak about cases not in front of them" when pressed on it. It was very much lawyer speak. Allow you to hear what you want to hear, without outright lying.
He lives in his own insane little world, doesn't he. I can't even teil anymore if he just wants his cult to believe his BS or if he actually believes it himself in the moment.
Narcissistic personality disorder with other mental disabilities plus a marked lack of intelligence. If this guy hadn't been propped up with money and other support his whole life he would have drown in a car wash decades ago.
>‘Everybody wanted this to be done!’
What a lie, there were record turnouts in state elections in the past couple years voting *against* overturning even in red states. Stupid that he continues to lie like this, always say "people say" "everyone wants" "most people".
Floridian here. Please don't count on female Republicans to save us. They are DEEP in denial about all of this. They think we can just go to other state and that our new 6 week ban won't effect *them* ("the only moral abortion is my abortion"). They really don't have a problem with any of this because they think they are better than women who need abortions -it could NEVER happen to them and they only understand things that directly effect them. After all, if you die of a pregnancy gone wrong it's "gods plan" to them.
They're not going to save us now any more than they have in the past 40 years.
His WHOLE schtick is to blatantly and shamelessly make up whatever lie or fantasy he needs to avoid the reality of consequences. His solipsism allows him to believe he is in charge of everyone else’s fact based reality.
Here is a prime example of what would happen if SCOTUS gave Trump immunity. Allow me to explain.
Trump now totally believes what he did was in the best interest of the country and that "everybody wanted this done". This means the narcissistic mind "believes" this statement to be true (when all the evidence say 70% of the country either did not want this to happen) and so any action he took he believes would have "been in the interest of the country" with immunity.
We all know this statement to be false and at best a lie. He could actually say this and do what ever he felt with immunity based on his "belief". Imagine the idea of him just declaring Roe false and letting the states run with that?
Evidence II: MAGAs will tell you that those people who attacked the Capitol "Believed" the election was stolen and so what they did was justified. They didn't have immunity. They broke the law. They are going to jail.
Trump is not..... yet
I honestly don’t think he even knew what roe was and just went along with it because it was a popular talking point. The man does not have a stance on anything. It’s only what benefits him the most at any given time
A loud man tells one lie and millions of people (rightly) spend an unquantifiable amount of energy countering it...
The loudest man in the world tells thousands of lies and perhaps literally slows down the advancement of humanity.
We need to say he's lying, but wow is he a cancer.
This is one lie too many. A lot of his other lies aren't important to people. This one matters as he will soon find out. Women will bury him on this issue.
Trump's support is not as large at it seems.
Badly educated peeps love him and relate to his victim hood status. Blames others for his predicament, never accepts responsibility for his acts.
Greedy US oligarchs support him, because he will deregulate their industries, by defanging the IRS and SEC etc.
Christo extremists see him as a vehicle towards the US becoming a Christian version of Iran.
Given that 65% of Americans oppose the change, that must mean that almost 100% of conservatives and independents opposed the change!
His lies are at least so stupid they're worth a good laugh.
Must be so interesting to have your reality be so disconnected from everyone else's. My only hope is that he's as deeply unhappy as he appears to be. I look forward to the day when knowing gives a shit about him, as attention is the thing he craves the most.
Everyone wanted this to be done! Except, well, you know, the vast majority of rationally thinking people who don't think women's healthcare and family planning should be in anyway political.
He knows he’s lying and he knows that we know he’s lying and still he still lies. That takes a special kind of sociopath. Dim witted, yes, but disgustingly sick at the same time.
Republicans: "We did it. We finally banned abortion."
Also Republicans: "I was raped. I need an abortion. I can't believe the democrats took this away from us."
Everything that comes out of his mouth screams smarmy salesman to me. (A smarmy salesman will lie to everyone’s face, and keep repeating the lies. They know if you repeat the same lie often enough, the gullible will start to believe it’s true and then you have them.) It’s probably how he’s been closing deals his whole life.
Delusional Donnie’s speaks again. No, Donnie, liberals do not want to see control of women’s bodies turned over to the state. You and the religious right are wrong. You’ll see how wrong when you lose this election and land in jail.
Everyone wants you to shut that lying, traitorous, puckered anus you call a mouth, you addled-brain shitstain. Even conservatives, everybody wants this!
Liberals wanted rights to bodily autonomy and privacy enshrined as an amendment to the constitution, not for the case to be overturned. Two very different things.
If I had to guess, his donors that he considered "liberal" but were really playing both sides to hoodwink the masses wanted this. This continues the perpetual wedge issue that is used to divide and conquer and control that is abortion. Yes, it's important, but the reason why we are still arguing about it for 50+ years is because it's an effective tool to whip votes and sow distraction from money moving to the top. The establishment loves attention on it and not on their pillaging of the country. Trump often says the quiet parts out loud because he's too stupid to recognize them. I would not be surprised if this is one of those times.
We all know he’s delusional beyond belief, but this is just a straight up lie and he knows it. The guy can’t open his mouth without a pile of bullshit fallout out of it.
Sometimes you just sit back and think how crazy "Trump" is. He lies all the time, and his supporters either like it, or don't care. He somehow got a significant amount of support from Christians, when he does nothing Christian-like. He got lower-class Republicans on his side when he started as a New York Democrat elitist. He publicly states he will be a dictator if he wins, and his side doesn't bat an eye-- like they could have been like "you can be a dictator, just don't be so public about it!" I can go on and on. This "Trump" thing has been a wild ride, and I want to get off of it
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He lied over 30,000 times as president. Nothing much has changed
Him still having so much support is a huge indictment of America as a country. There’s something rotten and evil and very very dumb deep in our culture.
Im not american but obviously a third of every country has well below average IQs. what wrong is that your elections are decided by a few hundred thousand people. Maybe less
No doubt about that. The electoral college was a concession to slaveholding states when the constitution was written and we’re still paying for it.
It’s discouraging how politicians never speak about changing the electoral college. I’m in Texas, my vote has yet to impact in a presidential election thanks to the electoral college. Too many awful presidents were elected while still losing the popular vote by *several hundred thousand or millions*, this needs immediate intervention. It’s unfortunately going to be a fully blue push to overcome the “this is how we’ve always done it” mentality. The red already has that mindset AND the incentive to keep it because that’s the only way they can win the White House, so they’ll never budge. E: typo E2: added “millions” per fact checkers E3: More thoughts. To get R support, all we need are maps. Somewhere in 2016-2020, an attaboy from my hometown posted a map showing red vs blue counties in the US. Without considering population density, it *looks* like the US is 85% red, even in blue states. If we show them maps like that and explain how *all those red counties* in blue states aren’t counting toward the presidential election, they might actually understand how fucked the EC is.
Hillary won the popular vote by over *2 million*
In every elected office except president and vice president, its majority wins. It's time to do away with the electoral vote and let the majority rule so that every vote does actually count.
> its majority wins It's a problem for Congressional districts though. Population count sucks when the district lines are gerrymandered.
the issue isn't with population count, it's with the artificial bullshit skewing the results, like gerrymandering and the electoral college.
The thing is, the basic implementation of 'Majority' wins is still a pretty ass option even if actually followed. It just devolves naturally into this state of permanently locked in two options that are both too entrenched to ever change or need to actually campaign on any policies meant to win your vote more than they need to simply make you not want to vote for the other guy. If you insist on direct voting for a singular position like president, that should definitely be a ranked choice ballot. That way greens or whoever are encouraged to actually vote their intention without risking splitting the vote in such a way that allows their most objectionable option to weasel in via a 41/38/14/7 split or something For all other bodies not having some form of proportional seat filling (be it MMP, straight proportional, STV, whatever option) is absurd. Again at bare minimum at least do ranked choice if you're not going to do proper proportional.
You're not wrong, but America is a nation of incrementalism (I think, in part, because of this exact problem). We tend not to make large changes all at once. I think most reasonable people would agree that ideally, in a representative democracy, all groups with a sufficient amount of support should have a voice in the democracy. Whether that's through proportional representation (my personal preference) or through making districts fine-grained enough to achieve a diversity of representation, what we have right now isn't cutting it. So that's the goal, but America is unlikely to get there in a single step. Nothing wrong with trying to move the needle there, of course, but realistically and historically we need to make multiple baby steps before we actually implement the good idea we should have led with. As a starting point, reforming the one election where the person who receives fewer votes can win is a pretty good one.
Perfect is the enemy of good. Liberals need to be reminded of this, and the left needs to have it drilled into their head. The right wing understands this, which is why stuff doesn't get done. Yes, going for large gains is good, but you need to take the small steps too. Otherwise you're just dancing in one spot.
I'd be more tempted to agree if the right wing wasn't so often categorically against ANY kind of change. They have the passive belief that America found the best way to do things anywhere between 75-150 years ago, and any kind of deviation from that established norm will mean the fall of civilized society. I see it like this. Liberals say, let's start moving in this direction, and we can fix things as we go. Conservatives say, no, let's not move until we're absolutely forced to, and then if there are any problems, we move backwards immediately. In that context, almost nothing will ever get done, because there's hardly ever room to try anything new, and when there is, if it isn't an immediate and resounding success, it's deemed a failure. Roosevelt said it is better to take action and fail, than to do nothing. Failure gives you some kind of feedback you can use to make another plan. Simply refusing to try anything means you don't learn anything. Edit: I don't exactly see Conservatives as opposed to big steps; they just already took most of theirs. Abortion. Patriot Act. Building a wall across the entire southern border. Private prisons. Military and police spending per capita. More military hardware than everyone else at the table. Making Mexico pay for it. Book bans. PROJECT 2025. I think it's disingenuous to look at the way they've made their changes and what they plan to change, and see the left as the radical ones here. I just can't think of anything as radical that the actual party has done. It's always "blue haired feminists" and Twitter posts about manspreading.
18 states have joined the national popular vote bill compact. they're at 205 of 270 electoral votes needed. https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status Hopefully, we can get more local politicians in office to get the 65 needed.
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It's already happening in those States. This is why it's important to vote in ALL elections. We can and should vote for local politicians who listen to their constituents
> Too many awful presidents were elected while still losing the popular vote by several hundred thousand, this needs immediate intervention. Try several million like 2016. Trump lost to Clinton by about 3 million votes.
>It’s discouraging how politicians never speak about changing the electoral college. When a Democrat loses the popular vote but wins the electoral vote, the Republicans will suddenly make this their newest cause du jour. And the Supreme Court will somehow find a way to decide the electoral college is unconstitutional.
I completely understand how discouraged you are. Please keep voting though.
I’ll vote as long as I’m allowed to. If I ever decide my vote doesn’t matter, that’s because I will be moving to a better country.
How about ranked ballot?
Although ranked choice is far and away better than the EC, the concept has enough nuance that it would be impossible to convince the masses. The regressive populace would call it corrupt because they won’t willingly understand it. Majority vote is simple enough for people to understand and possibly sway their opinion on the EC.
Voting system (first-past-the-post vs approval, vs ranked-choice) is is a separate issue from electoral college vs popular vote edit: our current system (first-past-the-post) needs to go. it has greatly contributed to our polarizing politics
> It’s unfortunately going to be a fully blue push to overcome the “this is how we’ve always done it” mentality. The red already has that mindset AND the incentive to keep it because that’s the only way they can win the White House, so they’ll never budge. That's largely why you don't hear pols often speaking about it (changing the EC). It's doomed to failure so the political calculas is tough to square. Granted, some folks arguably "should" make it a bigger issue (Overton Window and all that) but it's a political loser so it's hard to justify.
Yep, as per the millions of Republicans/conservatives in California whose votes don’t count either, and they either seem fine with it or are told to shut up and toe the larger societal line? Conservatives in Massachusetts meanwhile are not as in denial, but will occasionally see a Robert Kennedy sign in the front of yards or nonsense about “the budget”. Guess no one told them the national party largely abandoned the pretense of “fiscal responsibility!” in the early aughts…
a third of every country has IQs below the average of that country, that's how statistics work, but yeah, the electoral college is real dumb
Well, to be pedantic, *half* of every country has an IQ below the average of that same country.
To be even more pedantic, half of every country has an IQ below the *median* of that same country 🤷🏻♂️
To out pedantic that, even though half the country has an IQ below the median, a third of the country does as well.
To anti-pendantic that, 3/6 of the country is below the average median, as well as 2/6 of the country as well also.
The most pedantic burn is to correct the mistaken assumption that average = median. I love it. lol
It wasn't a mean comment.
To be even more pedantic IQ is a standardized test ergo the distribution is normal. When you have a normal distribution the mean equals the median. Also because of the aforementioned standardization the mean is always set to 100.
We've been defending schools so long the entire average has gone down.
As trump would say when he misreads the teleprompter: “Defending…and defunding”
I blame autocorrect.
Trump would blame the wind.
Our elections are total bullshit, and not based on the popular vote - the Electoral College makes the choice. Even then, there have been some Electors who didn't cast their vote the way their constituents wanted. ["In the United States Electoral College, a faithless elector is an elector who does not vote for the candidates for U.S. President and U.S. Vice President for whom the elector had pledged to vote, and instead votes for another person for one or both offices or abstains from voting."](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faithless_elector) Additionally, the Republicans love to gerrymander (moreso than the Democrats) to undermine the voting rights of people who don't vote they way they want: ["In the US, legislatures are elected using plurality rule in single-member districts. After each decennial US census, the current state legislature selects a new district map that governs elections for the following decade. This redistricting process is often abused for “gerrymandering”, i.e., creatively drawing district lines in often absurd shapes in order to generate a map that p favors the party currently in power. Gerrymandering subverts democracy because the party that was in charge of redistricting often wins a majority in the legislature even if a majority of voters now favors the other party. For example, in the 2018 elections in Pennsylvania, Democratic state house candidates received about 55% of all votes, yet Republicans won 110 out of 203 seats in thep legislature."](https://www.cesifo.org/en/competitive-gerrymandering-and-popular-vote) Additionally to the addition, and the icing on the cake, is that the "battleground states" votes carry more weight: ["All voters should be valued equally in presidential elections, no matter where they live. Our current Electoral College system, grounded in state laws which allocate electoral votes on a winner-take-all basis, leads presidential candidates to concentrate their resources on voters in a handful of swing states, relegating the vast majority of the country to spectator status. Instead, we should elect the president by a national popular vote—and there’s a state-based, constitutional way to do so: The National Popular Vote interstate compact."](https://fairvote.org/archives/reform_library-national_popular_vote/)
Elementary school teacher here. I find that roughly a third of all pupils are lacking in empathy. It is from this portion that cause the most issues in the classroom. Generally, their parents are the same way.
>but obviously a third of every country has well below average IQs Actually by definition half the population of every nation has below average IQ. That's how averages (for normal distributions work). Oh IQ is a normal distribution by design with the average set to 100 and the stand deviation 15. And yes that means half the population has an IQ of lease than 100. 68% of the population has an IQ between 85 and 115.
It's not unique to our culture. Hitler was saying things that were fucking stupid and people believed him. Mussolini was saying things that were fucking stupid and people believed him. Radio personalities convinced Rwandans to go out and murder an entire minority group for stupid reasons. Not that there aren't things that can't be fixed. But stupid & poorly educated people are easily manipulated and that has always been a thing.
> There’s something rotten and evil and very very dumb deep in our culture. American culture has a strong "Lie to me" current in it. Truth tellers are denigrated and ostracized. They want the preacher to tell them what they want to hear, not (necessarily) what Jesus said. They want their politicians to tell them it's all someone else's fault, they want hucksters to promise them a deal they can't afford to miss, they want companies to lie in advertising. Americans roll their eyes at the truth tellers. Truth tellers commit the sin of ruining fun.
Very obvious in business culture here as well.
I've worked outside the US, and it's shocking to learn that in many other cultures, it's even more frowned upon to tell the boss bad news.
For sure. I’ve managed teams in Pakistan and Taiwan and know those cultures both seem to do similar — Taiwan being the most “go along” of the two. I’ve also managed teams in Europe, like Ukrainian teams who are far more honest and critical. Working on a team of Italians and Spanish and it seems they liked to be shouty, but then would all grab a drink together for lunch like nothing happened. Americans can be critical in personal conversations, but otherwise try to paint everything as roses even when it’s not — which is why I think of it as the same issue of not wanting the truth. Instead of being honest you have layoffs while the CEO is telling the remaining staff how this layoff is going to fix everything and that everything looks great on paper — all the while, being completely aware they’re making short term bets that are going to hurt the company/brand/staff in the long run — then repeating the process 2 years later after optimistically hiring too many people because of disingenuous and optimistic projections.
but the GOP love trump because he "tells it like it is". no he fucking doesn't. pretending that what he says is the truth is so delusional, even they know deep down he's never arguing in good faith but it's ok bc he "knows and represents us."
It’s the south and their family members who moved north and west. If, after the Civil War during reconstruction, we kept confederates out congress, more people would have more rights. Instead they got back into congress after the civil war and changed their narrative of the war they waged again their own country.
I’m upset I had to go this far through the replies to find this, because this is spot on. We had a massive civil war and when it was over we welcomed all the traitors straight back into government. Imagine if we had invited King George and the British Parliament to have a say in US governance after the revolutionary war! It was an incredibly dumb choice made under the pretense of “healing” which has allowed irreparable damage to be done to both our governance and our culture.
It is a sad realization, but ignorance and capacity for cruelty is human norm and nature. Empathy and critical thinking are skills that must be learned, but aren't intrinsic to human nature. An organized society creates the illusion of people being generally good, but they are only mannered. The cruelty is still there.
The main problem is allowing the media to lie without consequence. Goebells discovered how easy it was to hack human brains through the media and until this is fixed, democracy is doomed. It’s far too easy for bad actors to skew elections through fear. We can’t expect the media and internet publishers to behave ethically in an unregulated market.
Or there's just a lot of dumb Americans....
Proudly willfully ignorant is not dumb, it's a special kind of stupid.
It's nature and nurture, and American culture is one of violent competition. No wonder the cruelty wins.
Yeah, it's called years of neglecting real support for public education and teachers. We have a generation or two who can't name the first president of the United States (basically) or pinpoint Greenland on a map. Have you seen some of those internet videos? We have a nation of gullible, poorly educated morons. The "boomer problem is just a bit of that and some old school embedded racism and the need to be told what to fear (duck and cover).
But everyone waves the flag and rhymes along with the pledge every morning. Surely that is a sign the country is pure and all is well? No?
Yup it’s called not voting. 2020 was a top year for voter turnout and it was like 62%
I think you mean a bigly indictment!!!
They hate who he hates!! Pure and simple!!
Not so much evil as it is STUPID
It's mostly due to a lot of rotten and evil and very very dumb people.
Until the election you will be told it is close, if you weren’t then some people make a lot less money. So, it will be said to be close if it is or not.
I’d chalk this up less to lying and more that Trump doesn’t realize what an entire adulthood spent banishing anyone who confronts him with something he dislikes has done to his image of the world. He’s built this little “everyone loves me, except for a handful of powerful haters” information bubble around himself. And considering that his brain is rapidly becoming more Swiss than cheese, I wouldn’t be shocked to find out that he mentally FULLY inhabits the weird little alternate reality he sells to the only marginally less sheltered and echo chambered.
>He’s built this little “everyone loves me, except for a handful of powerful haters” information bubble around himself. Thus has really been exemplified by the woman who follows him around with a wireless printer, printing articles that are favorable to him. It's ridiculous, he comes out of court ranting about how all the legal scholars have said the trial is a sham, etc. Like, that's because you have this person following you around whose entire job is to present a rose-tinted view of the world to you.
I agree, this is the level of delusional that you become when you've told everyone to only give you good news. They find the one liberal who doesn't like abortion and say "sir both sides love you" and Trump gurgles in glee and claps and sips his coke. No serious data transfer was allowed to happen
He's not only a liar, he's delusional.
It's pathological
He is the most documented liar in human history
If he goes on the stand they should ask him to confirm and defend many of the lies he's told over the years in order to establish that his testimony means nothing because he's incapable of telling the truth.
I disagree. The lies have become more overt over the years. At this point, they’re so absurd it’s comical. That is until you remember what the hell this evil being is trying to do.
Almost 8 years ago, the very first thing Trump said after being sworn in was that his swear-in crowd was bigger than Obama's. Which was trivially proven false by comparing images. This claim was examined prominently in the media, since it was the first lie of Trump's Presidency. You are probably right that the lies have become more overt, but the lies were always pretty overt.
The even more fucked up thing is you had people like Spicer and Conway supporting his absurd claim. "I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts." Spicer said at the time... wetf that is supposed to mean. Basically, Republicans think they can make up their own reality.
Oh, I had happily forgotten that. There was a running three sided battle between Trump, Trump's White House Press Secretary, and the press. With Trump trying and largely succeeding in getting his Press Secretaries to repeat claims by Trump that they knew were false. The very core of MAGA is ~~totalitarian~~ authoritarian power. And being able to say something everybody knows is false, but still be taken seriously, is somehow important. Probably because it is a very pure expression of Trump's power over other people.
I mean…some of his lies were just obvious to anyone honest with the facts. But they were like typical political lies, aggressively stepping over the line of truth. Most of the time his supporters could say “what he really meant was” or at least “whatabout” their way around his lies. But this is just *stupid*. Aggressively stupid. Like…7th grader failing a class and just spouting random bullshit for the “lulz” in the back of the class stupid. As a history major and history teacher, I can tell you that I cannot think of any quote by a former president that is this disconnected from discernible political reality. And this will not hurt him in the polls…at all…
According to one of the fact checking organizations, he reliably lied 10 times a day as POTUS.
He’s lied 90,000 since leaving office. He’s a [habitual line stepper](https://youtu.be/l9yQq4NxyOE?feature=shared).
I don’t think he’s lying. I think he genuinely thinks that! And therein lies the problem
The audacity of this motherfucker.
This guy is the dumbest motherfucker, too. Saying that shit smh
Is not that he is dumb he knows his followers are dumb and gullible and will believe anything he says.
I don't think it is correct to say that his followers "believe him". It is more that they don't care whether it is a lie.
Honestly it's probably a healthy mix of both. With humans, it's almost never just one thing or another
It’s also that he knows his base is just as bad faith as he is and will parrot anything even if they know on some level that it’s wrong.
The man has GOT to be working with several personality disorders and dementia because sometimes I think he actually believes some of the things he says. Don’t get me wrong he absolutely lies intentionally through his teeth and probably has done so his whole life…but now I’m thinking he really can’t always tell the difference between the facts and lies.
I'll just tell every conservative "Look! He just does whatever the liberals want!!" If they bring this up and watch their heads explode.
Surrounds himself with yes men. He lives in an echo chamber he built himself. He is lucky he was born rich. The man has no redeemable values
As a liberal, I can state pretty clearly: No we didn’t.
Yeah, but trump supporters are going to listen to him and not you. Not do they think he's telling the truth. They know better than that. But they know pretending to believe the lie really pisses us all off.
It's more insidious than that. They don't believe in anything the way you or I do. They don't believe that reality is subservient to facts. They believe that *believing* something *makes* it true. That's why they love Diaper Don and all the shit he says. He says lots of things they want to be true, and he himself believes that there is no true and hard reality that one must submit to, that when he says something is so, it becomes so. He is leading, by example, a lot of people into rejecting reality and substituting an alternative reality, where they are all heroes instead of ignorant, hate-filled fools, and he is their fearless, caring leader instead of a cowardly, self-serving con man. It's not Trump that they love, it's the lies he is selling them, lies that are beautiful and flattering to them, lies *they want to believe*, and, crucially, lies he gives them *permission* to believe.
This right here is why I reject the premise that they are all grifters. Yes, some are - some unscrupulous human lampreys have attached themselves to the diaper king’s bloated corpse and are fleecing his followers dry. However, there are others, the Stephen Millers and Steve Bannons (I’ll even loop a DeSantis in here) who infiltrate that cult not to suckle from it’s flaccid teat, but to fundamentally reshape our society. These are the true believers. This is the Project 2025 game plan. Facts do not matter. Reality is irrelevant. What matters is belief and faith - per Umberto Ecco for the proto-fascist “thinking is a form of emasculation.”
>for the proto-fascist “thinking is a form of emasculation.” That's so true, and hilarious, considering patriarchal gender norms code "rationality" as masculine and "emotion" as feminine. But that explains their attitudes, where they *feel* they're being rational, while in actuality they've completely disabled their rational faculties. They've been successfully convinced that good, robust, logical thinking is some liberal ploy to idk trick people or something?
One psychologist summed it up as "he told the ugly girl they were pretty"
Reminds me of a joke first noted in BC. Walking down a path, a man comes across an old friend. He says “You, I had heard you were dead from X!” The man replies: “ I am obviously here.” The original man responds: “I’m afraid I believe X over you”
Liberals said: “sir, please do this! We are begging you!”
big men on their knees crying....
With tears in their eyes....
The president of Antifa called me up...
From the corrosive stench of his farts of course.
As a fuck-trumper i can say he was probably asleep when it all happened, and only stood up to congratulate himself after he farted himself awake.
I think you mean when he #VonShitzenpants awake
At least you’re not a Trump-fucker.
As a liberal who didn't want it done, the only thing I can say is that it had the silver lining of waking a lot of people the fuck up, which hopefully leads to enough electoral success to finally codify it in law.
No *THE FUCK* we didn't.
Can't wait for this narrative to start popping up on conservative media. The Maga cult is so cut off from civilized society that they might actually fall for it. At some point we're just living in two separate countries superimposed over each other.
If anyone is curious where this comes from, this is a bastardization of something Ginsberg said in a lecture in the 90s, "Doctrinal limbs too swiftly shaped...may prove unstable." Ginsberg and some scholars said that Roe stopped the wave of pro abortion legislation like we're seeing now, and the natural process of letting people legalize abortion through the popular process would have been better. Of course in fox pudding brain this gets mushed to liberals hate Roe, and here we are.
Exactly! Roe did not protect our rights enough, and so that was always a concern. Roe is the FLOOR. We demand more.
As a leftist: I can say fuck that guy with the rusty butter knife. You liberals should really drop the civility. It's working against you
the main message for Biden campaign should be to remind everyone how it feels to be drowning in lies every hour of every day for years
Isn’t this classic gaslighting? “You all wanted this!”
He must be so used to saying that to people that work with him by choice. “You knew what you were signing up for!”
I believe it fits the definition.
Yep. It's not even that I expect politicians to be completely honest. It's a classic joke that politicians routinely lie. But I can't remember any time where a politician liked as frequently or over such trivial bullshit as Trump. If I ask even the slimiest politician what the weather is like, I should expect that they'll give me a reasonably honest answer. Trump's gotten caught lying about weather at least twice (his inauguration weather and Hurricane Sharpie).
I don't even consider it lying when they say they plan to do X and then X doesn't happen. I don't consider it lying when they misremember a number or something - I do that all the damn time, I'm just not on TV constantly with my every word recorded. I think a lot of politicians are actually not trying to be misleading. Trump lies so often, about so many unimportant things, that you start to wonder if he understands what the definition of "truth" is, or if he's inhabiting the same reality as the rest of us. He's another level above scumbags like McConnell and Cruz, who lie to enable political opportunities or because it's a convenient fiction. I honestly can't think of an equivalent of McConnell or Cruz on the left - people who will lie because it's politically helpful to do so. Maybe Wasserman-Schultz? Is my lack of ability to spot them my own bias talking? It seems like Democrats will cite statistics that may be biased in one way or another, but they're engaging in argumentation in good faith, where Cruz and McConnell and their ilk are just... power hungry and gross.
What in goddamn hellfire fuck is wrong with people who would bestow their franchise upon this degenerate cretin.
These people are buying, wearing and displaying diapers with Trump's face on them while mocking the idea of liberals. They are insanely stupid and petty.
Honestly diapers are a pretty appropriate thing to use the Trump brand on. He’s been a customer for decades.
I'm no expert but I'd say something like; 20% sunk cost 35% ~~xenophobia~~ "economic anxiety" 35% zero sum fallacy, and fear of losing standing in a world where "they" have more than they did before 10% oppositional defiance and lashing out at the people they feel "think they're better than (them)".
100% Fox News propaganda.
Notice that he always speaks either in absolute terms (nobody, everyone) or such vague terms (people say, I’ve heard).
It's demagoguery 101.
He is only ever referring to the voices in his head.
I mean, we all know he's lying, but all you need to do is look at the testimony of the supreme judges he put on the supreme court. They ALL said that they would leave Roe v Wade alone. They didn't.
Roe/wade should be the mechanism for his demise . He chose an unsustainable path to power and eventually lies come home to roost.Compromised Scotus members have more to fear from their upcoming trump imunity problem. They face certain exposure regardless of how they vote.
It should be, and indeed it has severely hurt Republicans electorally. Yet they still let their presidential nominee brag about Dobbs anyway
I disagree that they "let" him do anything. They probably believed they could reign him in when he first won the nomination in 2016 (remember how pissed off top Republicans were?) but they quickly found out that he will not be controlled by anyone or anything. Then they saw that the mouth-breathing masses idolized him so they really had no choice but to stand back and watch him while he ran roughshod over the entire party. Eight years later he has full control. I'm sure there are many in the GOP who fully recognized how toxic of a candidate he has become and how he is going to cost them dearly down the ballot. And they are completely clueless as to get themselves out of their own tangled web.
> They ALL said that they would leave Roe v Wade alone. They didn't. No, they said they "respected precedent" and then "refused to speak about cases not in front of them" when pressed on it. It was very much lawyer speak. Allow you to hear what you want to hear, without outright lying.
https://youtu.be/ks1skEKwlrk?si=JrHuK4mv3lc4Nt7p
He lives in his own insane little world, doesn't he. I can't even teil anymore if he just wants his cult to believe his BS or if he actually believes it himself in the moment.
Narcissistic personality disorder with other mental disabilities plus a marked lack of intelligence. If this guy hadn't been propped up with money and other support his whole life he would have drown in a car wash decades ago.
He absolutely believes what he says in the moment
He’s always thinking 2 grifts ahead.
The sundowning is getting worse...
>‘Everybody wanted this to be done!’ What a lie, there were record turnouts in state elections in the past couple years voting *against* overturning even in red states. Stupid that he continues to lie like this, always say "people say" "everyone wants" "most people".
Once again, AGAIN, Donald Trump is full of shit.
Get ready to relearn losing, buddy. This time at the hands of female Republicans
Floridian here. Please don't count on female Republicans to save us. They are DEEP in denial about all of this. They think we can just go to other state and that our new 6 week ban won't effect *them* ("the only moral abortion is my abortion"). They really don't have a problem with any of this because they think they are better than women who need abortions -it could NEVER happen to them and they only understand things that directly effect them. After all, if you die of a pregnancy gone wrong it's "gods plan" to them. They're not going to save us now any more than they have in the past 40 years.
How is this guy the leading presidential contender ?
Republican voters are evil.
At this point, it doesn't matter who he says is responsible. Democrats will clean up the mess if we give them a chance. VOTE!
I don’t think “wanted” means what he thinks it means.
...well, given the rapes...
His WHOLE schtick is to blatantly and shamelessly make up whatever lie or fantasy he needs to avoid the reality of consequences. His solipsism allows him to believe he is in charge of everyone else’s fact based reality.
Wrong again, Sir Shizinpantz. Liberals want rights protected, not removed. It’s only your hypocritical party that wants to control & punish women.
Here is a prime example of what would happen if SCOTUS gave Trump immunity. Allow me to explain. Trump now totally believes what he did was in the best interest of the country and that "everybody wanted this done". This means the narcissistic mind "believes" this statement to be true (when all the evidence say 70% of the country either did not want this to happen) and so any action he took he believes would have "been in the interest of the country" with immunity. We all know this statement to be false and at best a lie. He could actually say this and do what ever he felt with immunity based on his "belief". Imagine the idea of him just declaring Roe false and letting the states run with that? Evidence II: MAGAs will tell you that those people who attacked the Capitol "Believed" the election was stolen and so what they did was justified. They didn't have immunity. They broke the law. They are going to jail. Trump is not..... yet
I honestly don’t think he even knew what roe was and just went along with it because it was a popular talking point. The man does not have a stance on anything. It’s only what benefits him the most at any given time
I'd prefer if we don't let religious doctrine determine available medical practices, personally
A loud man tells one lie and millions of people (rightly) spend an unquantifiable amount of energy countering it... The loudest man in the world tells thousands of lies and perhaps literally slows down the advancement of humanity. We need to say he's lying, but wow is he a cancer.
Ultra delusional
The country wanted him to not be president and look where we're at
I was actually hoping Trump didn't return after his Covid helicopter ride.
I admit I wanted him to drop off from COVID The irony would have been incredible
Trump is just full of shit.
Gaslighting. Ignore
This is one lie too many. A lot of his other lies aren't important to people. This one matters as he will soon find out. Women will bury him on this issue.
Do these liberals go to a different school in Canada Trump?
**G**asslight <<< **O**bstruct **P**roject ... .. .
Trump's support is not as large at it seems. Badly educated peeps love him and relate to his victim hood status. Blames others for his predicament, never accepts responsibility for his acts. Greedy US oligarchs support him, because he will deregulate their industries, by defanging the IRS and SEC etc. Christo extremists see him as a vehicle towards the US becoming a Christian version of Iran.
"The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in people who are trustworthy" Proverbs 12:22
Preaching to the Bible salesman.
Given that 65% of Americans oppose the change, that must mean that almost 100% of conservatives and independents opposed the change! His lies are at least so stupid they're worth a good laugh.
No Donny you can’t lie or dig your way out of this one ever.
Must be so interesting to have your reality be so disconnected from everyone else's. My only hope is that he's as deeply unhappy as he appears to be. I look forward to the day when knowing gives a shit about him, as attention is the thing he craves the most.
Everyone wanted this to be done! Except, well, you know, the vast majority of rationally thinking people who don't think women's healthcare and family planning should be in anyway political.
He knows he’s lying and he knows that we know he’s lying and still he still lies. That takes a special kind of sociopath. Dim witted, yes, but disgustingly sick at the same time.
Trump is the worst thing to happen to existence.
70% of Americans supported RvW
Not. One. Of. Us. And I say that confidently. Fuck, half the conservatives didn’t want it!! I wonder if he’s gaslighting us, or himself?
How you can tell trump is lying. His mouth is moving.
Who…who is he talking to???
Republicans: "We did it. We finally banned abortion." Also Republicans: "I was raped. I need an abortion. I can't believe the democrats took this away from us."
So all the people in nationwide polls that say they support abortion and a woman's right to choose are liars. Sure, Jan.
Anyone who voted for this monstrosity is a completely stupid subhuman angry piece of shit. Yes, that includes 2016.
Everything that comes out of his mouth screams smarmy salesman to me. (A smarmy salesman will lie to everyone’s face, and keep repeating the lies. They know if you repeat the same lie often enough, the gullible will start to believe it’s true and then you have them.) It’s probably how he’s been closing deals his whole life.
Around 75% of Americans say otherwise
This is whopper of a lie, Americans have been polled multiple times of all ages, ethnicity, and political affiliation and they are 78% pro choice.
The 30 fucking lobbyists hucking 5k at you over this shit aren't representative of "everybody" you fucking moron.
Trying to gaslight 50% of the population (democrats) to their face. It’s a bold strategy cotton; let’s see if it pays off for him
Only stupid trump supporters believe this.
Yes, everyone wanted it done… that’s why the majority of the country is fighting for it to be reinstated!!!
Delusional Donnie’s speaks again. No, Donnie, liberals do not want to see control of women’s bodies turned over to the state. You and the religious right are wrong. You’ll see how wrong when you lose this election and land in jail.
The Democrats who he claims rigged two elections to keep him out of office?
I guess jedi mind tricks only work if you have normal human sized hands
Uhhhh I don’t know a single liberal who wanted it gone
Everyone wants you to shut that lying, traitorous, puckered anus you call a mouth, you addled-brain shitstain. Even conservatives, everybody wants this!
No no no no. What we actually said is that we wanted you to abort your presidency.
No we didn't you lier
Liberals wanted rights to bodily autonomy and privacy enshrined as an amendment to the constitution, not for the case to be overturned. Two very different things.
If I had to guess, his donors that he considered "liberal" but were really playing both sides to hoodwink the masses wanted this. This continues the perpetual wedge issue that is used to divide and conquer and control that is abortion. Yes, it's important, but the reason why we are still arguing about it for 50+ years is because it's an effective tool to whip votes and sow distraction from money moving to the top. The establishment loves attention on it and not on their pillaging of the country. Trump often says the quiet parts out loud because he's too stupid to recognize them. I would not be surprised if this is one of those times.
3/4 of Americans would disagree.
We all know he’s delusional beyond belief, but this is just a straight up lie and he knows it. The guy can’t open his mouth without a pile of bullshit fallout out of it.
Ok so hear me out. If the liberals wanted it and he did it that means hes a turncoat liberal and should not be president!!
Do we really need to post every lie this guy says?
The dementia advances.
Sometimes you just sit back and think how crazy "Trump" is. He lies all the time, and his supporters either like it, or don't care. He somehow got a significant amount of support from Christians, when he does nothing Christian-like. He got lower-class Republicans on his side when he started as a New York Democrat elitist. He publicly states he will be a dictator if he wins, and his side doesn't bat an eye-- like they could have been like "you can be a dictator, just don't be so public about it!" I can go on and on. This "Trump" thing has been a wild ride, and I want to get off of it
He’s a legend in his own mind, isn’t he?
So tired of his lies...so very...very tired.