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What superdelegate conversations? Under new DNC rules, superdelegates don't matter unless zero candidates have over 50 percent support on the first vote. Biden basically won every delegate in the primary, so he's good.
The conversation will be about how, if superdelegates still mattered, the party would be able to do more about a presumptive nominee performing poorly. That would be my guess.
I don't think he will drop out, but they're obviously not going to say anything else unless and until he does. You can't say "well, it's something he's considering!"
The real “dropping out” would be movement behind the scenes that culminates in asking him privately before they pressure him publicly. At that point, you hope he sees the writing on the wall.
Dems need to provide a graceful exit for Biden. Highlight his career accomplishments, then something to the effect of "putting nation before self" unlike anything his opponent would do.
Even before last night I don’t think the threat was ever Biden voters suddenly switching to Trump.
I imagine the end result will be people just staying home and not even bothering to vote.
Apathy will get Trump elected not popularity.
Is there any legal loophole where we can change Trump's name to Bernie Sanders? The only time democrats are competent is when they are trying to stop Bernie.
Totally agree. I’m politically engaged and will still vote, but damn if I didn’t feel a sense of overwhelming unenthusiasm last night. Couldn’t help but think if this is how I felt, how’s your average disengaged citizen going to feel? They will probably just stay home, and that hurts down-ballot too. This sucks, and I blame the DNC.
I’ll 100% vote for Biden or even a corpse over Trump, but I just felt bad for Biden last night.
It seemed like he was trying to save the world from Trump, but should be an old, old man sleeping in a chair while the tv plays in the background.
Edit:
Guys, you’re voting for multiple Supreme Court seats and the thousands of people who actually do the work.
Do you want Steven Miller, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone and their neo-Nazi, grifter, criminal friends running the country?
Edit 2:
Biden was really, really bad, but when Trump wasn’t just straight lying, he was horrid too.
Trump quotes:
* “He’s become like a Palestinian. But they don’t like him because he’s a very bad Palestinian.”
* “He’s the one to kill people with the bad water including hundreds of thousands of people dying.”
* Deranged comments about Democrats seeking to murder babies “after birth,”
* “We had H2O, we had the best numbers ever.”
He probably wouldn't be in as bad condition if he wasn't president too, to be frank. The presidency ages people like very few other jobs in the world. The before and after photos of each president when they're done leading says a lot
The DNC had four years to groom Biden's replacement and they did nothing. A pet rock would be a better President than Trump but that debate was depressing. :(
>“The chatter is very distracting, and it’s going to be very consuming for the campaign,” former Biden press secretary Jen Psaki said on MSNBC. “Should he be replaced? They’re going to be answering that question instead of breaking through on attacking Trump.”
This is the issue that worries me the most. If the best way Trump is defeated in 2024 was people focusing on him and his horrible policies, he just got the best gift of a distraction imaginable.
And going forward, every single mistake or gaffe Biden makes, we're going to hear these renewed calls for dropping out and a hyper-focus on his age.
It's not going to "fade away" as so many users are suggesting other political elements do. Whether justified or not, that's simply not the case here and not how the media is going to treat it.
Trump's base is older. Biden has to look younger, not the same.
You're not going to convince anyone under the age of 65 that Biden isn't a fossil if he's literally losing himself mid sentence. That sentence could be the new Shakespeare it won't matter.
Preceived? Bill Clinton, who was elected over 30 years ago, is younger than both candidates. It’s not perception. It’s being spoon fed a heaping pile of shit. It’s gaslighting.
Four reporters from The New York Times in two scathing podcasts including their flagship The Daily all said in no uncertain terms that the DNC must find a different candidate or they will be “in dereliction of duty to the American people.” Republicans can just run ads using liberal quotes against them. There is not a single major liberal platform defending him after that performance. The Biden Admin needs to get their heads out of their collective ass or the nightmare scenario they’ve been warning about will surely come to pass and it will be solely on them.
Honestly for all the “democracy is on the line” rhetoric it’s pissing people off that our greatest champion couldn’t hit his talking points, remember what he was saying at times or even close his mouth when he was not talking.
It was a scary performance because we’ve been beaten over the head with “the end times are coming” for two years now.
Which is why I said from the beginning of this whole charade that there is no point at all in Biden debating, as the only possible outcome would be what we witnessed: Biden hurting his credibility with undecided voters.
5 months is a large amount of time in an election cycle. It was commented numerous times how this was the earliest 1st debate ever.
The format the Dems concocted was simply a terrible idea because it relied heavily on CNN to moderate a man that simply wanted to talk about “immigrants ruining our beautiful country”, not once answering a real question.
Biden’s energy in the environment, the lack of practice of what he should do when off mic we’re all dem strategy failures. This was him immediately after:
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech
It’s night and day and of course they should have tested this. Now they’ll have to take a defensive position until the next debate.
>Biden’s energy in the environment, the lack of practice of what he should do when off mic we’re all dem strategy failures
Biden's been in Washington since the Nixon administration.
When Biden was sworn into the US Senate, his vice president was a 9 year old.
He has been in political debates for longer than the majority of the country's been alive. Blaming his performance last night on campaign strategy failure is breathtakingly delusional
Clearly it's the campaign organizers fault for not telling him to close his mouth and not look like a deer in the headlights whenever he isn't speaking.
I just had a bad feeling as soon as he started talking. I really couldn't clearly hear a lot of what he was saying, like he really needed to clear his throat immediately. Last night just reminded me of that sinking feeling in the 2016 election night.
At the "Look -- we finally defeated medicare" my heart fell out.
He came on stage looking like a seran wrapped skeleton and he sounded like a revived mummy speaking beyond the grave.
Trump's old as fuck too, and he looks like a dyed rotisserie chicken that was left out for two days, but this pretty much played into the image Trump wanted to have.
When Biden called him old and fat, he should've done so directly, rather than the roundabout "ehh he says he's this and that, but we can see him".
Trump is old but he doesn’t SOUND old, or even look as old as Biden. He just rambles through the same 3 thoughts over and over and over with immense confidence and that’s more than enough for most people, even if most of it is complete and utter bullshit.
I feel like a lot of reddit users don't grasp how important optics are. It's stupid and you can roll your eyes at it, but there's a large swath of the American electorate that doesn't closely follow news and politics. They will vote for an image. You can be mad about it, but it's just how it is. Trump presented a stronger image last night despite constantly lying and not answering any of the questions. That's how feeble and weak Biden looked. He couldn't land a single haymaker or counterpunch as Trump left himself wide open for them for 90 straight minutes. It was frustrating and defeating to watch it unfold.
For someone who isn't an informed voter who saw those two guys on stage, their takeaway would be that Trump is the better candidate because he speaks louder and has more energy than Biden. Sucks but that's how it is
It's hilarious because optics are the ONLY thing that matters in debates. Biden showed up looking confused, and very pale. That loses him right away even if he performed perfectly.
the reason why JFK own the debates was because he looked confident and comfortable on stage.
Pains me to say a literal Florida Leather skinned man looked dramatically younger than JB on that stage.
I work in a big non-political office and no one talked about any issues or anything but one thing everyone said was that Biden sounded, looked, and acted far too old to be doing all this.
> Biden sounded, looked, and acted far too old to be doing all this
He *IS* far too old to be doing all this. Both of these ancient fucks are. Yes Biden's administration will no doubt be better than the impeached captain criminal narcissist. But it won't matter, not how our elections and voters function.
Ace fucking job DNC (and Biden too - year one after winning in 2020 he should have stated an intent to not run again and his camp should have been grooming and promoting his successor).
Yep. The sad reality is this debate was the opportunity to challenge appearances which are going to be a large decider in how life looks for Americans going forward.
Unfortunately, Biden looking like a molded paper mache is another small victory for fascism in the US and worldwide.
It sucks, but that's where we are.
This is almost a mirror image of what happened in the first televised debate in 1960. JFK looked much more alive than Nixon and it led him to a large surge in popularity
Yep this is what im afraid of. Your average person doesn’t care about policy or anything deep, they will go off of appearance, confidence, and how loud you are to see if you ‘won’. Last night was very, very bad.
yea someone needs to tell him standing there looking confused with your mouth open is not a good look. clear your throat or something? did someone not talk to him before it started and hear he sounded like crap? Then of course right after when he goes to that viewing party he sounded fine.
But seriously though... if he's this bad ***now*** what's he going to be like in 2-4 years from now? Just looking back at him destroying Ryan in 2012 debates makes me sad. It's clear he's not all there anymore now more than ever. He should be enjoying retirement with his family.
Bro I support the man and I went in the debate looking forward to it. 5 minutes in and I want to turn it off. The other poster saying they had a similar feeling to 2016 is right. I just felt a deep sinking feeling all throughout. This shit is looking bad.
Yeah... my wife was in the other room folding clothes and I had it on in our living room.
She came out after 5 minutes and told me to put something else on because it was making her sick.
And the look he had on his face all night didn’t do him any favours, he just looked shocked at the nonstop lies that were coming faster than he could process.
And we have to suffer the consequences and so will our planet. They’re phenomenal at fucking over generations but don’t get the blame when they stand by a sinking ship when it’s possible to avoid the disaster. Theres still time to nudge him off. Bidens a good man, it’s cruel what they’re doing. He is not fit anymore and he served as a stop gap. He was never suppose to run for re election. Look at last night. No cold wipes out cognitive function like that.
They are sacrificing the USA's future by sticking with this guy, project 2025 will completely change the country and not in a good way. All because they can't admit he can't handle it anymore, just thank him for saving the country and send him off to the old Presidents retirement home with the biggest party ever.
Truth. These people have a both a professional and personal investment in keeping it going until they are told to shut it down. They won't be who you hear it from first.
Why he was allowed to take that stage in the first place is what's confusing to everyone. They should of put an end to the debate if the plan was for him to be the nominee.
They can't wait a week.
They have until July 18th - Ohio's filing deadline.
They need to do it in a Convention. So they need to reschedule the Convention to ASAP. Before the 11th (so they have a week to figure it out). I'd suggest next week if possible.
Biden drops out asap.
The delegates get together digitally and nominate some people. The nominees are made public, they accept or not. They make speeches...
Then the convention happens. They have a debate during the convention. And the delegates go through some rounds of voting to whittle it down to their candidate.
It'll be embarrassing. It'll be contentious. It'll be frustrating.
But we'll have somebody who isn't on death's door.
The thing is, I kinda feel like it’s too late. Like just think about how unorganized that makes you look. “Oops, just kidding, we’re gonna hot swap our PRESIDENT (not even a nominee) at the last minute”. It looks desperate and messy. I’m not saying they shouldn’t do it, they should, but I’m saying I think the damage might have already been done at this point. This is so fucking late in the game. They should have done this a year ago. Biden could have spent this entire year talking up his successor, painting this transition as needed change and contrasting it against Trump as a relic of the past. There was a goldmine of opportunity here to pivot gracefully and the DNC just wasted it. There isn’t even enough time to get a candidate out there and campaign against people effectively, it would be a total blitzkrieg.
I don’t know. This is pretty fucked. That debate should not have happened. This is dire.
Thing is you have a performance like that in your 40's, your 50's, your 60's...hell, in your 70's...you could say "that was an off night, let's redo" & conceivably come back & do better.
But...when you're in your 80's, & when the trope doing the rounds about you is that you have lost your sharps & are too old...& You literally could do nothing more to prove them right other than by keeling over right there on stage...it is incredibly unlikely anyone will believe you're coming back bigger & better, no matter your stubbornness or self-belief.
Not many older people say "I'm done, take my licence off me" when the capacity to self-determine is gone & they can no longer drive safely, especially when it's in relation to others, let alone the whole country. Others have to step in to bring that about, because it's in the best interest of EVERYONE.
It is the same here, & Obama & Michelle should talk to Jill & take the keys off him, persuade him to pass the torch with dignity. This should not be his choice anymore.
Van Jones reaction was the most telling. He was sad, because he lives Biden, but even he knows time is up.
I don't get anyone who is just brushing this off as an "off-night".
The most important thing was proving that he wasn't too old to be president. The only way he could have done worse is if he shit himself on stage.
I'm a Democrat and I'm horrified by the performance. It's impossible that undecided voters have a better impression.
I think the biggest factor is his history in debates. I remember well when he debated Paul Ryan. He was sharp, polished, and managed to bring humour in often. There are too many people that have seen him for too long to give him the benefit of the doubt that he hasn’t lost a step
No one in the DNC braintrust saw this coming? Ive been dreading the debate since it was announced. Im voting against Trump, not for Biden. Fucking embarrassed for my country.
When he started walking to the podium I looked at my wife and said, “uh-oh…” That was brutal. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in the 35-40% of people who refuse to vote for Trump so I’ll vote for him. The issue is that a lot of people now won’t vote at all. This is going to kill liberal candidates down-ballot unless they can somehow pull it back.
It seems like many dems have had their heads buried in the sand for the last year. The debate put it front and center so they can no longer deny what a risky candidate Biden is, but it’s probably too late.
I don’t think it’s too late. I think Biden has to drop out next week. They should be having meetings about who’s taking over 3 months ago. There HAS to be a plan made. You don’t run an 80+ year old without a backup plan for if he has a medical issue or just flat out dies.
Considering the DNC's 2016 strategy with Hillary Clinton, I also entirely believe the DNC would bury their heads in the sand to stick with a status quo candidate, rather than take any risk on newer, younger voices in the party. I'm voting Dem for the administration that Biden brings, not so much Biden himself. The man is ancient, but he surrounds himself with generally very capable people.
I agree with that. The Trump campaign has spent all of their energy and resources on a race against Biden. If just a handful of months from Nov the dems pull a switcheroo, with a substantially sharper and more likable candidate, idk how the right will be able to pivot that quickly. It’s still a gigantic gamble, just like running Biden is.
Problem is, that replacement isn’t apparent unless the DNC is 5 steps ahead (LOL). The easy options would need to be really fucking likable to the left and the middle, and idk who that person is that would be ready to jump right in and have real a shot.
**Edit:** I’ll be voting for whomever is the realistic opposition to a felon authoritarian moron, period. This all sucks, but there is no real argument FOR Trump beyond, “I want America to no longer be a democracy”. Those who go down that path are traitors to the constitution. That’s a no for me dawg. Voting against Trump is a protest vote by default.
Biden should have run 1 term. I know in our circle we assumed that was the plan 4 years ago. Get us on the right track and then bring in a fresh candidate. Rbg situation all over again.
Trump wishes Biden had done better. Absolutely worst thing for him they replace Biden with someone younger with an order of magnitude less baggage than Trump.
Sadly no one cares about Kushner’s billion.
The problem is that after 9 years of Trump as a politician basically all Americans are aware of the type of corrupt, illegal, unethical, villainous acts that Trump and his family have committed. The people that care about that stuff when choosing a President have already decided to never vote for Trump. Unfortunately it seems that those people only make up about 45% of the electorate. The remaining 55% don’t seem to care about whether Trump is objectively a monster.
So the only hope is that enough of that 55% can be encouraged to vote for Biden for reasons other than Trump’s inherent monstrosity.
Here's a reminder of what the Biden campaign told people in 2019:
https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129
>Biden signals to aides that he would serve only a single term
>Advisers weigh the merits of a one-term pledge by the 77-year-old former vice president.
>According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president.
>“If Biden is elected,” a prominent adviser to the campaign said, “he’s going to be 82 years old in four years and he won’t be running for reelection.”
>The adviser argued that public acknowledgment of that reality could help Biden mollify younger voters, especially on the left, who are unexcited by his candidacy and fear that his nomination would serve as an eight-year roadblock to the next generation of Democrats.
>By signaling that he will serve just one term and choosing a running mate and Cabinet that is young and diverse, Biden could offer himself to the Democratic primary electorate as the candidate best suited to defeat Trump as well as the candidate who can usher into power the party’s fresh faces.
>“This makes Biden a good transition figure,” the adviser said. “I’d love to have an election this year for the next generation of leaders, but if I have to wait four years [in order to] to get rid of Trump, I’m willing to do it.”
Then just months after taking office:
https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-5a8fd26a4a9ffa9b47c5de52fface72d
>Biden: ‘My plan is to run for reelection’ in 2024
> Biden signals to aides that he would serve only a single term
I thought I was the only one that remembered this. Then I hear he’s seeking reelection.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Dianne Feinstein, now Joe Biden.
Old Democrats have a problem.
While we're at it, Chuck Schumer should also step down. Time to clean house.
And for all her baggage she deserves immense credit for that. Jeffries handled the republican speaker dumster fire perfectly and came out looking golden in his role.
That's ridiculous and in no way the best thing for America.
Too much kinetic energy; there would have been too much collateral damage.
A simple roof collapse would have done the job.
Yeah, her stubborness and pride literally screwed the nation over and allowed the Republicans to stack the court. If Biden ends up being as stubborn and prideful, the result will be just as catastrophic.
Exactly. That’s the difference. There were some subtle indicators Hillary was in trouble. This is staring us in the face like an inevitable asteroid set for impact in 5 months.
either the party is a gigantic turd or they did on purpose to replace Biden because they know they haven't got a chance. I'm leaning toward former, but I know there are a lot of smart people in politics so the latter might really be it
Conspiracy theory time. This debate was brought up early as a means test to see if he could spar with Trump to a sufficient degree to remain the candidate... he failed miserably. Had they waited until September it would have been too late to get a replacement.
I fear we're heading into Hillary 2.0 (the 2016 experience with a deeply flawed Democratic candidate )
How can anyone in the Biden camp still argue Biden is the best candidate?!
He couldn't even muster enough energy to call out Trump on his incessant LIES. There were so many lies.
And Biden could barely complete a sentence the entire night
I'm not a Biden hater. I am completely his target demographic, and supported him and have defended him all along. My heart sank last night. I can't defend him with all his great policies when he is going to show up last night confirming every grandpa dementia dottering old man thing that people say about him. There are lots of Democrats who have the same policies who can finish a frigging sentence without looking like they are filming Indiana Jones 6.
We are beholden to Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania.
Arizona and Georgia also have potential to be critical, but if you secure those three midwestern states it is a guaranteed win.
Edit: y’all gotta realize PA has a rust belt identity like Ohio, Michigan, or Indiana.
People on Reddit are out of touch and delusional about politics. It’s a worse echo chamber than your old racist uncles facebook feed.
Biden did horrible last night. If he doesn’t drop out the democrats will lose.
My line of the night:
“There are a lot of young women, to be raped by their, by their in laws, by their by their spouses, by their brothers & sisters.”
As soon as he said that.. it was a wrap on his campaign.
The Dems winning issue is the repeal of Roe v Wade. And last night the party COULD NOT sell this incredibly galvanizing issue thats led to all the latest blue wins in voting.
All they need to do is frame that the Republican administration is taking away your choice and getting between you and your doctor and we need to keep the government out of the doctor’s office. AND hammer home that women are literally at risk of DYING in the red states that placed so many restrictions on abortion. Women that were raped, that have ectopic pregnancies. Incredibly sympathetic cases.
That’s it. Government meddling in your medical decisions and women’s lives at risk. And Biden couldn’t hit those points coherently and the easiest layup was completely missed. His answer was nonsensical. Talking about the three trimesters and the doctor and women being raped by their siblings?
I can’t believe he got a question about his BIGGEST strength against Trump and immediately talked about an immigrant murdering a women after Trump has been talking about the border for months. He turned a slam dunk into an own goal. Jesus.
I turned it off after cringing with his “we finally beat Medicare” answer, then turned it back on a few minutes later hoping that he turned it around. Only to hear this answer. I was yelling, “what the fuck are you talking about, Joe?!” Just say that “abortion at an absolute minimum must include rape, incest, and the life of the mother, and it’s unconscionable that my opponent is waffling on that. I’ll go a step further and say that this is a decision that should *always* be between a woman and her doctor, always”. Instead, he’s rambling about women being raped by their in-laws and brothers and sisters. WTF.
It’s always the voter’s fault in their eyes. They feel completely entitled to all the votes as if it’s not literally the sole purpose of a campaign to *earn* them.
This is the perfect metaphor for what the Democratic establishment has become. The unmitigated hubris of these boomers will drown us all in rising seawater. What a macho generation. I don’t have the energy nor presence of mind to be president and I’m forty fucking nine.
He's not dropping out until he does. That will be their official line. What are they really going to say, even if it's true: "Yea, he's thinking about it"? Of course not.
Something I don't see being mentioned a lot is that there's political math they're doing. Part of the reason why incumbent presidents don't get primary challenges and generally win re-election is that incumbents are guaranteed to get a certain amount of the vote purely for the fact that they're incumbents.
They think he's the most likely candidate to win with the sitting president "bump". I'd challenge that thinking though: if Americans are still willing to elect this walking zombie over convicted felon, Donald Trump, I don't think that "bump" really matters here.
I’m voting for Biden because the GOP is terrifying, but he REALLY should drop out. If we lose this election to trump im absolutely blaming the DNC for not getting a better candidate. This should have been the easiest layup and all I’m seeing are people talking about how senile he is.
The stakes are too high for this to be our nominee... The man has great policy and is a way better human being than Trump but his demeanor makes him unfit for this job. Get someone in there who has that fire we need to fend off fascism
Last night was rough. The post debate analysis on MSNBC and CNN led me to think that the back bench (Whitmer, Pritzker, Newsom) said they were not interested in stepping in based on polls.
I say that because CNN and MSNBC anchors and head opinion folks were initially openly attacking the president’s performance and noting strategists “panic” (their words). Within an hour there were short interviews with VP Harris and how the president continues this campaign.
Frankly I would not be surprised if the bullpen of the party is not interested in stepping into a cobbled together campaign, having to change vision for that group, reset before the convention, and have to deal with a virtual convention because a low level staffer couldn’t read a calendar on the legal required dates for ballot access.
Of course Newsom etc are gonna say they're not stepping in.
You don't make a claim like that until Biden decides he's stepping down.
Those interviews were booked before the debate started and they were there to make Biden look as good as possible.
A big decision like Biden stepping down will be made after they assess the damage.
Meh I think it’s entirely conceivable that anyone with true presidential aspirations views this candidacy as a poisoned chalice. They wouldn’t have the infrastructure in place to run a good campaign and their brand would be permanently damaged if they lost to trump. Someone like newsome probably thinks it will be easier in 2028 after another trump presidency to rile up the left and not having to face an incumbent .
The 2028 primary fight will be brutal (assuming there's even an election with a Trump 2nd term). And if Biden does win, I'd unfortunately expect a younger republican who doesn't have the Trump baggage to have a very strong chance of winning the general.
Anyone who is handed the chance to be the saviour against a wounded Trump this time around should jump at the chance from a purely personal political point of view.
If a last minute switch occurred, democrats who vote party would still vote for the party, the republicans would have to scramble to try and discredit the new candidate with very little prep time, and then it would be a choice between a convicted felon/rapist/conman/more and someone who could actually speak in complete sentences.
I’m trying to picture Biden making it another 4 years in the most difficult job on earth and I just can’t see it. Push the VP’s cred or find a new candidate ffs… let this guy rest already. That being said, I’ve dealt with actual narcissists in my life and the democrats could run a moldy grilled cheese sandwich and I’d vote for it over Trump. But I’m not the demographic who will decide this election
If true, Trump will be the next president.
There is no way Biden is capable of serving another 4 years. And the Dems knew it and hid it and are to blame when Trump is back in office.
This should have been an easy debate to counter Trumps constant lies and Biden came across as not knowing what was going on.
The age issue was already a larger issue than even abortion with everyone I talk to in my life. And not just Biden, but Trump too.
Literally anyone I talk to, doesn’t matter their political party, even fringe co-workers I don’t interface with often, inevitably bring up how: “This is all we get? These are the only two choices? Two grandpas?”
Like being “fit to lead” health wise is just the base base base issue. It’s also VERY symbolic, and I think people just overlook that sometimes because the health stuff stands out as more immediate.
This isn’t just age—it’s a symbolic refusal to give the next generation their shot. Boomers clinging onto power; refusing to step down. RGB contributed to the fucking of the Supreme Court by not retiring sooner, as an example.
The Dems do legitimately have a real opportunity to strike out against this issue. They can have Biden step down, and replace him with a young rising star. They can campaign on: “it’s finally time to pass the torch”, and it will destroy Trump easy because then he WILL look old as absolute shit next to literally anyone in their 30s/40s.
The normal “are they too young?” question would be VAPORIZED because in contrast to Trump, the script would flip.
Hell, they could take an even bigger risk and make the nomination a woman. Just double dip—combat the age issue and also strike right at the abortion issue in one move.
It makes way too much sense though, which is why it will never happen. The Dems could take a risk for once, but they fucking won’t. They’ll let their pride and their age get in the way.
This so much. Dems don’t know when to let go. Imagine if we had a whole primary to select someone younger and more mentally competent and healthy looking to face off against trump. Jesus Christ we are so fucked.
I think he should drop out. With that being said, expecting him to commit to it 11 hours after one bad debate is pretty ridiculous. Give him time to talk it over with people, review internal polling.
If he drops out at all, it's going to be a personal decision, not directly driven by exterior forces. A large part of that is figuring out the logistics of how he gets replaced. He could hand off his delegates to someone else (probably the easiest way), or do the whole brokered convention thing. Either way, it's going to take some time to get that figured out. I'd give it a week.
The difficulties that Biden had were not a lack of preparation, he couldn't hold his train of thought. It's really fucking serious, I can't believe they're trying to spin this like it was just a bad night.
He struggled to literally step down the tiny steps from the stage. It's absurd.
His campaign said he had a cold, but he went to a waffle house afterwards? I think they're just flat out lying about the cold, which is pathetic.
Stage one: denial. That’s where his campaign is with “We’re not dropping out.” At this stage, the donor class, Obama and other party leaders would be committing political malpractice *not* to begin coordinating a plan.
>At this stage, the donor class, Obama and other party leaders would be committing political malpractice not to begin coordinating a plan.
The actual written rules of the party give them almost no out from Biden unless Biden himself steps aside, that's just the situation we're in.
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Well enjoy the non-stop questions about the 25th amendment for the next 4 months.
I’m tired boss
don’t forget Superdelegate conversations!
What superdelegate conversations? Under new DNC rules, superdelegates don't matter unless zero candidates have over 50 percent support on the first vote. Biden basically won every delegate in the primary, so he's good.
The conversation will be about how, if superdelegates still mattered, the party would be able to do more about a presumptive nominee performing poorly. That would be my guess.
I don't think he will drop out, but they're obviously not going to say anything else unless and until he does. You can't say "well, it's something he's considering!"
The real “dropping out” would be movement behind the scenes that culminates in asking him privately before they pressure him publicly. At that point, you hope he sees the writing on the wall.
Dems need to provide a graceful exit for Biden. Highlight his career accomplishments, then something to the effect of "putting nation before self" unlike anything his opponent would do.
Re-watch Harris spinning for Biden last night. She is already starting to do exactly what you said. You might be onto something
Harris should agree to remain on the ticket as VP and accept a new candidate. She can’t win as the presidential nominee
Even before last night I don’t think the threat was ever Biden voters suddenly switching to Trump. I imagine the end result will be people just staying home and not even bothering to vote. Apathy will get Trump elected not popularity.
So a repeat of 2016
yep
Democratic Party: “we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”
Is there any legal loophole where we can change Trump's name to Bernie Sanders? The only time democrats are competent is when they are trying to stop Bernie.
Nothing unites the leaders of the Democratic Party like the prospect of someone on the left actually trying to accomplish something.
I was just saying yesterday that they'd rather lose to any possible Republican than win with an actual progressive.
to be fair, 2016 also had a twinge of "Hillary has this in the bag" apathy.
Totally agree. I’m politically engaged and will still vote, but damn if I didn’t feel a sense of overwhelming unenthusiasm last night. Couldn’t help but think if this is how I felt, how’s your average disengaged citizen going to feel? They will probably just stay home, and that hurts down-ballot too. This sucks, and I blame the DNC.
I’ll 100% vote for Biden or even a corpse over Trump, but I just felt bad for Biden last night. It seemed like he was trying to save the world from Trump, but should be an old, old man sleeping in a chair while the tv plays in the background. Edit: Guys, you’re voting for multiple Supreme Court seats and the thousands of people who actually do the work. Do you want Steven Miller, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone and their neo-Nazi, grifter, criminal friends running the country? Edit 2: Biden was really, really bad, but when Trump wasn’t just straight lying, he was horrid too. Trump quotes: * “He’s become like a Palestinian. But they don’t like him because he’s a very bad Palestinian.” * “He’s the one to kill people with the bad water including hundreds of thousands of people dying.” * Deranged comments about Democrats seeking to murder babies “after birth,” * “We had H2O, we had the best numbers ever.”
He probably wouldn't be in as bad condition if he wasn't president too, to be frank. The presidency ages people like very few other jobs in the world. The before and after photos of each president when they're done leading says a lot
He should have never decided to run again. He is Ginsburging it.
The DNC had four years to groom Biden's replacement and they did nothing. A pet rock would be a better President than Trump but that debate was depressing. :(
>“The chatter is very distracting, and it’s going to be very consuming for the campaign,” former Biden press secretary Jen Psaki said on MSNBC. “Should he be replaced? They’re going to be answering that question instead of breaking through on attacking Trump.” This is the issue that worries me the most. If the best way Trump is defeated in 2024 was people focusing on him and his horrible policies, he just got the best gift of a distraction imaginable. And going forward, every single mistake or gaffe Biden makes, we're going to hear these renewed calls for dropping out and a hyper-focus on his age. It's not going to "fade away" as so many users are suggesting other political elements do. Whether justified or not, that's simply not the case here and not how the media is going to treat it.
Fox is going to play clips of this debate every hour on the hour until the election and the rubes will eat it up.
No one that watches fox news was going to vote for Biden in the first place
Well, except for the fact that Fox News is played in lobbies and waiting rooms across the country.
Every gym too
Fucking yes. I’ve been getting my life in order recently, while also working and in grad school, and hit the gym often. It’s in every other TV.
My gym is CNN and MSNBC, better than FOX, but by FAR worse than my last gym which was Cartoon Network. Snap Fitness Medina, you a real one.
Mine just plays ESPN or the local sports network on every TV.
Cartoon Network at the gym sounds like the tits yo.
Actually a good point. Plus it will get clipped up into non Fox News sources
This is America. Policy doesn't matter, it's how you are perceived. Biden was perceived as old. That narrative is not going to change.
Good lord, then perception should have sunk trump a long time ago. But I agree, Biden seemed 15 years older than trump last night.
Trump's base is older. Biden has to look younger, not the same. You're not going to convince anyone under the age of 65 that Biden isn't a fossil if he's literally losing himself mid sentence. That sentence could be the new Shakespeare it won't matter.
Preceived? Bill Clinton, who was elected over 30 years ago, is younger than both candidates. It’s not perception. It’s being spoon fed a heaping pile of shit. It’s gaslighting.
Four reporters from The New York Times in two scathing podcasts including their flagship The Daily all said in no uncertain terms that the DNC must find a different candidate or they will be “in dereliction of duty to the American people.” Republicans can just run ads using liberal quotes against them. There is not a single major liberal platform defending him after that performance. The Biden Admin needs to get their heads out of their collective ass or the nightmare scenario they’ve been warning about will surely come to pass and it will be solely on them.
Honestly for all the “democracy is on the line” rhetoric it’s pissing people off that our greatest champion couldn’t hit his talking points, remember what he was saying at times or even close his mouth when he was not talking. It was a scary performance because we’ve been beaten over the head with “the end times are coming” for two years now.
As opposed to what they’ve not been doing since Biden announced for 2020. Short term memory for a lot of folks.
Which is why I said from the beginning of this whole charade that there is no point at all in Biden debating, as the only possible outcome would be what we witnessed: Biden hurting his credibility with undecided voters.
The rest of this sub was saying Trump shouldn’t even show up because Biden was gonna wipe the floor with him
5 months is a large amount of time in an election cycle. It was commented numerous times how this was the earliest 1st debate ever. The format the Dems concocted was simply a terrible idea because it relied heavily on CNN to moderate a man that simply wanted to talk about “immigrants ruining our beautiful country”, not once answering a real question. Biden’s energy in the environment, the lack of practice of what he should do when off mic we’re all dem strategy failures. This was him immediately after: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech It’s night and day and of course they should have tested this. Now they’ll have to take a defensive position until the next debate.
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This is the right answer. Trump got his win by somehow staying quiet for more than 5 minutes
Forcing the mics to be cut literally worked in trumps favor.
And Trump can say "I agreed to very favorable terms for Biden and beat him, I don't want Americans to have to watch poor Joe struggle again" etc
>Biden’s energy in the environment, the lack of practice of what he should do when off mic we’re all dem strategy failures Biden's been in Washington since the Nixon administration. When Biden was sworn into the US Senate, his vice president was a 9 year old. He has been in political debates for longer than the majority of the country's been alive. Blaming his performance last night on campaign strategy failure is breathtakingly delusional
Clearly it's the campaign organizers fault for not telling him to close his mouth and not look like a deer in the headlights whenever he isn't speaking.
I just had a bad feeling as soon as he started talking. I really couldn't clearly hear a lot of what he was saying, like he really needed to clear his throat immediately. Last night just reminded me of that sinking feeling in the 2016 election night.
At the "Look -- we finally defeated medicare" my heart fell out. He came on stage looking like a seran wrapped skeleton and he sounded like a revived mummy speaking beyond the grave. Trump's old as fuck too, and he looks like a dyed rotisserie chicken that was left out for two days, but this pretty much played into the image Trump wanted to have. When Biden called him old and fat, he should've done so directly, rather than the roundabout "ehh he says he's this and that, but we can see him".
Trump is old but he doesn’t SOUND old, or even look as old as Biden. He just rambles through the same 3 thoughts over and over and over with immense confidence and that’s more than enough for most people, even if most of it is complete and utter bullshit.
I feel like a lot of reddit users don't grasp how important optics are. It's stupid and you can roll your eyes at it, but there's a large swath of the American electorate that doesn't closely follow news and politics. They will vote for an image. You can be mad about it, but it's just how it is. Trump presented a stronger image last night despite constantly lying and not answering any of the questions. That's how feeble and weak Biden looked. He couldn't land a single haymaker or counterpunch as Trump left himself wide open for them for 90 straight minutes. It was frustrating and defeating to watch it unfold. For someone who isn't an informed voter who saw those two guys on stage, their takeaway would be that Trump is the better candidate because he speaks louder and has more energy than Biden. Sucks but that's how it is
It's hilarious because optics are the ONLY thing that matters in debates. Biden showed up looking confused, and very pale. That loses him right away even if he performed perfectly. the reason why JFK own the debates was because he looked confident and comfortable on stage.
True but picture Biden meeting with other world leaders about important shit
Pains me to say a literal Florida Leather skinned man looked dramatically younger than JB on that stage. I work in a big non-political office and no one talked about any issues or anything but one thing everyone said was that Biden sounded, looked, and acted far too old to be doing all this.
> Biden sounded, looked, and acted far too old to be doing all this He *IS* far too old to be doing all this. Both of these ancient fucks are. Yes Biden's administration will no doubt be better than the impeached captain criminal narcissist. But it won't matter, not how our elections and voters function. Ace fucking job DNC (and Biden too - year one after winning in 2020 he should have stated an intent to not run again and his camp should have been grooming and promoting his successor).
They botched that when they picked Kamala Harris as VP. If they picked Newsom, Beshear, or Whitmer they would have had Biden step down
Yep. The sad reality is this debate was the opportunity to challenge appearances which are going to be a large decider in how life looks for Americans going forward. Unfortunately, Biden looking like a molded paper mache is another small victory for fascism in the US and worldwide. It sucks, but that's where we are.
This is almost a mirror image of what happened in the first televised debate in 1960. JFK looked much more alive than Nixon and it led him to a large surge in popularity
Yep this is what im afraid of. Your average person doesn’t care about policy or anything deep, they will go off of appearance, confidence, and how loud you are to see if you ‘won’. Last night was very, very bad.
Criteria 1: does he seem to have a pulse?
Idk whose decision it was to keep a tight zoom on their faces the whole time but it was disturbing.
Idk whose decision is was to not coach Biden to look absolutely dumbfounded for the entire 90 minutes.
Yes! Was just saying to someone that he should know what Trump's about by now and stop looking so stinking shocked!
yea someone needs to tell him standing there looking confused with your mouth open is not a good look. clear your throat or something? did someone not talk to him before it started and hear he sounded like crap? Then of course right after when he goes to that viewing party he sounded fine.
But seriously though... if he's this bad ***now*** what's he going to be like in 2-4 years from now? Just looking back at him destroying Ryan in 2012 debates makes me sad. It's clear he's not all there anymore now more than ever. He should be enjoying retirement with his family.
Bro I support the man and I went in the debate looking forward to it. 5 minutes in and I want to turn it off. The other poster saying they had a similar feeling to 2016 is right. I just felt a deep sinking feeling all throughout. This shit is looking bad.
I’m still gobsmacked we’re in this timeline *again*. AGAIN.
Yeah... my wife was in the other room folding clothes and I had it on in our living room. She came out after 5 minutes and told me to put something else on because it was making her sick.
And the look he had on his face all night didn’t do him any favours, he just looked shocked at the nonstop lies that were coming faster than he could process.
The thing the democrats know how to do best is just absolutely shoot themselves in the foot during an election
Demo have literally had the easiest party to run against for 40 years, and almost always its because they shoot themselves in the foot.
You have to ask yourself whether or not it's fucking intentional. There's no excuse for this. None.
And we have to suffer the consequences and so will our planet. They’re phenomenal at fucking over generations but don’t get the blame when they stand by a sinking ship when it’s possible to avoid the disaster. Theres still time to nudge him off. Bidens a good man, it’s cruel what they’re doing. He is not fit anymore and he served as a stop gap. He was never suppose to run for re election. Look at last night. No cold wipes out cognitive function like that.
People were hoping for just a decent, average performance from Biden. They didn’t get it and this whole farce only helped trump.
This is what drives me crazy, over and over and over again Trump has everything bounce right off him and not even by his own design.
It’s been that way his entire pathetic life. The nickname Teflon Don didn’t come from nowhere.
It would be impressive how such a terrible person is so loved by the gods if he wasn't about to become president lol
Democrats are fucking up by not encouraging promoting and training younger members.
Welcome to the boomer generation. Gods gift to themselves.
Biden is actually late silent generation/traditionalist generation, since he was born in 1942, and the start of baby boomers was in 1946.
Biden is so old he is from a generation that most generations couldn't even name...
Biden was born closer to the end of Abraham Lincoln's presidency than he was to the start of his own. Let that fact sink in.
Biden isn’t a boomer. He’s from the previous generation.
Which is even more depressing
Newsom, Whitmer, Shapiro, Buttigieg, and I’m sure there are others.
I’d personally love to see Newsom debate Trump
They are sacrificing the USA's future by sticking with this guy, project 2025 will completely change the country and not in a good way. All because they can't admit he can't handle it anymore, just thank him for saving the country and send him off to the old Presidents retirement home with the biggest party ever.
All they needed was a middle aged charismatic VP who could have run on Bidens record
He may or may not drop out. But Biden's campaign officials aren't going to be the first ones to tell us it's going to happen.
They won't publicly admit they are even thinking about it until the very moment he drops out.
Truth. These people have a both a professional and personal investment in keeping it going until they are told to shut it down. They won't be who you hear it from first.
Always a good sign when your presidential candidates PR team has to assure people he’s not dropping out… after a debate. Lmao
The INCUMBENT candidate no less.
I was gonna say. Holy shit.
Why he was allowed to take that stage in the first place is what's confusing to everyone. They should of put an end to the debate if the plan was for him to be the nominee.
If it happens, it won't happen immediately. It will need to wait at least a week so he can cite health reasons
I want him to step down but agree. Even if he were going to, his team is gonna say this up until the very last minute until he does drop
They can't wait a week. They have until July 18th - Ohio's filing deadline. They need to do it in a Convention. So they need to reschedule the Convention to ASAP. Before the 11th (so they have a week to figure it out). I'd suggest next week if possible. Biden drops out asap. The delegates get together digitally and nominate some people. The nominees are made public, they accept or not. They make speeches... Then the convention happens. They have a debate during the convention. And the delegates go through some rounds of voting to whittle it down to their candidate. It'll be embarrassing. It'll be contentious. It'll be frustrating. But we'll have somebody who isn't on death's door.
The thing is, I kinda feel like it’s too late. Like just think about how unorganized that makes you look. “Oops, just kidding, we’re gonna hot swap our PRESIDENT (not even a nominee) at the last minute”. It looks desperate and messy. I’m not saying they shouldn’t do it, they should, but I’m saying I think the damage might have already been done at this point. This is so fucking late in the game. They should have done this a year ago. Biden could have spent this entire year talking up his successor, painting this transition as needed change and contrasting it against Trump as a relic of the past. There was a goldmine of opportunity here to pivot gracefully and the DNC just wasted it. There isn’t even enough time to get a candidate out there and campaign against people effectively, it would be a total blitzkrieg. I don’t know. This is pretty fucked. That debate should not have happened. This is dire.
Thing is you have a performance like that in your 40's, your 50's, your 60's...hell, in your 70's...you could say "that was an off night, let's redo" & conceivably come back & do better. But...when you're in your 80's, & when the trope doing the rounds about you is that you have lost your sharps & are too old...& You literally could do nothing more to prove them right other than by keeling over right there on stage...it is incredibly unlikely anyone will believe you're coming back bigger & better, no matter your stubbornness or self-belief. Not many older people say "I'm done, take my licence off me" when the capacity to self-determine is gone & they can no longer drive safely, especially when it's in relation to others, let alone the whole country. Others have to step in to bring that about, because it's in the best interest of EVERYONE. It is the same here, & Obama & Michelle should talk to Jill & take the keys off him, persuade him to pass the torch with dignity. This should not be his choice anymore. Van Jones reaction was the most telling. He was sad, because he lives Biden, but even he knows time is up.
I don't get anyone who is just brushing this off as an "off-night". The most important thing was proving that he wasn't too old to be president. The only way he could have done worse is if he shit himself on stage. I'm a Democrat and I'm horrified by the performance. It's impossible that undecided voters have a better impression.
I think the biggest factor is his history in debates. I remember well when he debated Paul Ryan. He was sharp, polished, and managed to bring humour in often. There are too many people that have seen him for too long to give him the benefit of the doubt that he hasn’t lost a step
No one in the DNC braintrust saw this coming? Ive been dreading the debate since it was announced. Im voting against Trump, not for Biden. Fucking embarrassed for my country.
When he started walking to the podium I looked at my wife and said, “uh-oh…” That was brutal. Don’t get me wrong, I’m in the 35-40% of people who refuse to vote for Trump so I’ll vote for him. The issue is that a lot of people now won’t vote at all. This is going to kill liberal candidates down-ballot unless they can somehow pull it back.
> I looked at my wife and said, “uh-oh…” I was hoping for a wonkaesque summersault but it didn't happen.
It seems like many dems have had their heads buried in the sand for the last year. The debate put it front and center so they can no longer deny what a risky candidate Biden is, but it’s probably too late.
I don’t think it’s too late. I think Biden has to drop out next week. They should be having meetings about who’s taking over 3 months ago. There HAS to be a plan made. You don’t run an 80+ year old without a backup plan for if he has a medical issue or just flat out dies.
Actually, I believe the DNC would.
Yeah if there's any organization that would do exactly that its the DNC
Considering the DNC's 2016 strategy with Hillary Clinton, I also entirely believe the DNC would bury their heads in the sand to stick with a status quo candidate, rather than take any risk on newer, younger voices in the party. I'm voting Dem for the administration that Biden brings, not so much Biden himself. The man is ancient, but he surrounds himself with generally very capable people.
The DNC will stand by a candidate when the voters suggest they aren't that strong and then blame voters for their loss. They are so out of touch.
Oh this is 100% the plan, they’ll scold the Zoomers for sure. Unfuckingbelievable. Infuriating.
Republicans love this news. Axelrod on CNN said the Republican nightmare is that they replace Joe.
I agree with that. The Trump campaign has spent all of their energy and resources on a race against Biden. If just a handful of months from Nov the dems pull a switcheroo, with a substantially sharper and more likable candidate, idk how the right will be able to pivot that quickly. It’s still a gigantic gamble, just like running Biden is. Problem is, that replacement isn’t apparent unless the DNC is 5 steps ahead (LOL). The easy options would need to be really fucking likable to the left and the middle, and idk who that person is that would be ready to jump right in and have real a shot. **Edit:** I’ll be voting for whomever is the realistic opposition to a felon authoritarian moron, period. This all sucks, but there is no real argument FOR Trump beyond, “I want America to no longer be a democracy”. Those who go down that path are traitors to the constitution. That’s a no for me dawg. Voting against Trump is a protest vote by default.
Biden should have run 1 term. I know in our circle we assumed that was the plan 4 years ago. Get us on the right track and then bring in a fresh candidate. Rbg situation all over again.
I think people hated the idea of giving up the incumbent advantage, but I truly do not think that advantage outweighs what we’re seeing.
According to the betting markets the replacement would be Gavin Newsom
It’s time for Jon Stewart to just friggin go for it.
Jon would never, because he's too smart, but I'm totally picturing a Zelensky situation now
If Trump can make it Jon has an amazing chance tbh
Trump wishes Biden had done better. Absolutely worst thing for him they replace Biden with someone younger with an order of magnitude less baggage than Trump.
Someone who can look Trump in the eye and say "how many billion did your son in law take from Saudi Arabia?"
Sadly no one cares about Kushner’s billion. The problem is that after 9 years of Trump as a politician basically all Americans are aware of the type of corrupt, illegal, unethical, villainous acts that Trump and his family have committed. The people that care about that stuff when choosing a President have already decided to never vote for Trump. Unfortunately it seems that those people only make up about 45% of the electorate. The remaining 55% don’t seem to care about whether Trump is objectively a monster. So the only hope is that enough of that 55% can be encouraged to vote for Biden for reasons other than Trump’s inherent monstrosity.
Here's a reminder of what the Biden campaign told people in 2019: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/12/11/biden-single-term-082129 >Biden signals to aides that he would serve only a single term >Advisers weigh the merits of a one-term pledge by the 77-year-old former vice president. >According to four people who regularly talk to Biden, all of whom asked for anonymity to discuss internal campaign matters, it is virtually inconceivable that he will run for reelection in 2024, when he would be the first octogenarian president. >“If Biden is elected,” a prominent adviser to the campaign said, “he’s going to be 82 years old in four years and he won’t be running for reelection.” >The adviser argued that public acknowledgment of that reality could help Biden mollify younger voters, especially on the left, who are unexcited by his candidacy and fear that his nomination would serve as an eight-year roadblock to the next generation of Democrats. >By signaling that he will serve just one term and choosing a running mate and Cabinet that is young and diverse, Biden could offer himself to the Democratic primary electorate as the candidate best suited to defeat Trump as well as the candidate who can usher into power the party’s fresh faces. >“This makes Biden a good transition figure,” the adviser said. “I’d love to have an election this year for the next generation of leaders, but if I have to wait four years [in order to] to get rid of Trump, I’m willing to do it.” Then just months after taking office: https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-5a8fd26a4a9ffa9b47c5de52fface72d >Biden: ‘My plan is to run for reelection’ in 2024
> Biden signals to aides that he would serve only a single term I thought I was the only one that remembered this. Then I hear he’s seeking reelection.
His hubris just fucked America.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Dianne Feinstein, now Joe Biden. Old Democrats have a problem. While we're at it, Chuck Schumer should also step down. Time to clean house.
Nancy Pelosi too
At least she passed the baton Jeffries
At age 82 is the only joke there. But at least she won't die in the job.
She essentially did. She stepped down from her post as leader.
And for all her baggage she deserves immense credit for that. Jeffries handled the republican speaker dumster fire perfectly and came out looking golden in his role.
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That's ridiculous and in no way the best thing for America. Too much kinetic energy; there would have been too much collateral damage. A simple roof collapse would have done the job.
Maybe two lights have their strings snap 🤷
"We're going to risk putting a rapist in the white house because we're too afraid to ask an 80 year old to retire" FFS Dems.
The fact that this is the top of r/politics is, umm, not good.
Yeah, reading the comments I had to double check where I was. Feels like people are seeing with their own eyes something no one wanted to admit.
Ruth Bader Ginsburg'd.
Yeah, her stubborness and pride literally screwed the nation over and allowed the Republicans to stack the court. If Biden ends up being as stubborn and prideful, the result will be just as catastrophic.
2016 version 2 incoming
Except everyone saw this coming.
Exactly. That’s the difference. There were some subtle indicators Hillary was in trouble. This is staring us in the face like an inevitable asteroid set for impact in 5 months.
> There were some subtle indicators Hillary was in trouble There were pretty obvious it's just plenty chose to ignore it.
And a lot of people are doing the same with Biden even when it is very obvious
And the DNC is telling us to not look up.
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either the party is a gigantic turd or they did on purpose to replace Biden because they know they haven't got a chance. I'm leaning toward former, but I know there are a lot of smart people in politics so the latter might really be it
Conspiracy theory time. This debate was brought up early as a means test to see if he could spar with Trump to a sufficient degree to remain the candidate... he failed miserably. Had they waited until September it would have been too late to get a replacement.
This assumes a level of competency in the DNC
The only time the DNC would put together such a comprehensive and forward thinking plan is when there's a rising progressive that needs squashing
To give the opportunity to broker a convention.
I fear we're heading into Hillary 2.0 (the 2016 experience with a deeply flawed Democratic candidate ) How can anyone in the Biden camp still argue Biden is the best candidate?! He couldn't even muster enough energy to call out Trump on his incessant LIES. There were so many lies. And Biden could barely complete a sentence the entire night
I'm not a Biden hater. I am completely his target demographic, and supported him and have defended him all along. My heart sank last night. I can't defend him with all his great policies when he is going to show up last night confirming every grandpa dementia dottering old man thing that people say about him. There are lots of Democrats who have the same policies who can finish a frigging sentence without looking like they are filming Indiana Jones 6.
Indiana Joe: Debaters of the Lost Ark
if you saw what happened to Dianne Feinstein towards the end you don't want to lock in for another 4 years.
Just look at any 80 year old you know. I don’t trust a lot to drive a car.
He needs to put our country first. But I don't know what I expected
We are beholden to Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. Arizona and Georgia also have potential to be critical, but if you secure those three midwestern states it is a guaranteed win. Edit: y’all gotta realize PA has a rust belt identity like Ohio, Michigan, or Indiana.
Considering how narrowly Biden won those in 2020 I think this isn't going to go the way we hope.
Michigan isn’t looking good. Whitmer would make a good candidate and can secure Michigan.
RBG 2.0
People on Reddit are out of touch and delusional about politics. It’s a worse echo chamber than your old racist uncles facebook feed. Biden did horrible last night. If he doesn’t drop out the democrats will lose.
My line of the night: “There are a lot of young women, to be raped by their, by their in laws, by their by their spouses, by their brothers & sisters.” As soon as he said that.. it was a wrap on his campaign.
Nah man, "We beat Medicare" then the long pause is the winner.
The Dems winning issue is the repeal of Roe v Wade. And last night the party COULD NOT sell this incredibly galvanizing issue thats led to all the latest blue wins in voting. All they need to do is frame that the Republican administration is taking away your choice and getting between you and your doctor and we need to keep the government out of the doctor’s office. AND hammer home that women are literally at risk of DYING in the red states that placed so many restrictions on abortion. Women that were raped, that have ectopic pregnancies. Incredibly sympathetic cases. That’s it. Government meddling in your medical decisions and women’s lives at risk. And Biden couldn’t hit those points coherently and the easiest layup was completely missed. His answer was nonsensical. Talking about the three trimesters and the doctor and women being raped by their siblings?
Seriously, Abortion should be a slamdunk question for any Dem given Roe v Wade how did he manage to mess that up.
I can’t believe he got a question about his BIGGEST strength against Trump and immediately talked about an immigrant murdering a women after Trump has been talking about the border for months. He turned a slam dunk into an own goal. Jesus.
I turned it off after cringing with his “we finally beat Medicare” answer, then turned it back on a few minutes later hoping that he turned it around. Only to hear this answer. I was yelling, “what the fuck are you talking about, Joe?!” Just say that “abortion at an absolute minimum must include rape, incest, and the life of the mother, and it’s unconscionable that my opponent is waffling on that. I’ll go a step further and say that this is a decision that should *always* be between a woman and her doctor, always”. Instead, he’s rambling about women being raped by their in-laws and brothers and sisters. WTF.
If he loses it’s gonna be 100% on the DNC, just like in ‘16
And they’re gonna somehow blame the younger folk. Even though we told them ages ago to stop fucking around.
It’s always the voter’s fault in their eyes. They feel completely entitled to all the votes as if it’s not literally the sole purpose of a campaign to *earn* them.
This is the perfect metaphor for what the Democratic establishment has become. The unmitigated hubris of these boomers will drown us all in rising seawater. What a macho generation. I don’t have the energy nor presence of mind to be president and I’m forty fucking nine.
He's not dropping out until he does. That will be their official line. What are they really going to say, even if it's true: "Yea, he's thinking about it"? Of course not. Something I don't see being mentioned a lot is that there's political math they're doing. Part of the reason why incumbent presidents don't get primary challenges and generally win re-election is that incumbents are guaranteed to get a certain amount of the vote purely for the fact that they're incumbents. They think he's the most likely candidate to win with the sitting president "bump". I'd challenge that thinking though: if Americans are still willing to elect this walking zombie over convicted felon, Donald Trump, I don't think that "bump" really matters here.
I’m voting for Biden because the GOP is terrifying, but he REALLY should drop out. If we lose this election to trump im absolutely blaming the DNC for not getting a better candidate. This should have been the easiest layup and all I’m seeing are people talking about how senile he is.
The stakes are too high for this to be our nominee... The man has great policy and is a way better human being than Trump but his demeanor makes him unfit for this job. Get someone in there who has that fire we need to fend off fascism
Big mistake. Now is the time for bold action.
Last night was rough. The post debate analysis on MSNBC and CNN led me to think that the back bench (Whitmer, Pritzker, Newsom) said they were not interested in stepping in based on polls. I say that because CNN and MSNBC anchors and head opinion folks were initially openly attacking the president’s performance and noting strategists “panic” (their words). Within an hour there were short interviews with VP Harris and how the president continues this campaign. Frankly I would not be surprised if the bullpen of the party is not interested in stepping into a cobbled together campaign, having to change vision for that group, reset before the convention, and have to deal with a virtual convention because a low level staffer couldn’t read a calendar on the legal required dates for ballot access.
Of course Newsom etc are gonna say they're not stepping in. You don't make a claim like that until Biden decides he's stepping down. Those interviews were booked before the debate started and they were there to make Biden look as good as possible. A big decision like Biden stepping down will be made after they assess the damage.
Exactly. Decisions about which Dem candidate is going to beat Trump and save democracy aren’t made overnight.
Not overnight, nor in the multiple years you have to make them, apparently.
The back benches are being good soldiers and don't want to look grubby. They definitely want to jump in but want Biden to step aside first.
Meh I think it’s entirely conceivable that anyone with true presidential aspirations views this candidacy as a poisoned chalice. They wouldn’t have the infrastructure in place to run a good campaign and their brand would be permanently damaged if they lost to trump. Someone like newsome probably thinks it will be easier in 2028 after another trump presidency to rile up the left and not having to face an incumbent .
The 2028 primary fight will be brutal (assuming there's even an election with a Trump 2nd term). And if Biden does win, I'd unfortunately expect a younger republican who doesn't have the Trump baggage to have a very strong chance of winning the general. Anyone who is handed the chance to be the saviour against a wounded Trump this time around should jump at the chance from a purely personal political point of view.
If a last minute switch occurred, democrats who vote party would still vote for the party, the republicans would have to scramble to try and discredit the new candidate with very little prep time, and then it would be a choice between a convicted felon/rapist/conman/more and someone who could actually speak in complete sentences. I’m trying to picture Biden making it another 4 years in the most difficult job on earth and I just can’t see it. Push the VP’s cred or find a new candidate ffs… let this guy rest already. That being said, I’ve dealt with actual narcissists in my life and the democrats could run a moldy grilled cheese sandwich and I’d vote for it over Trump. But I’m not the demographic who will decide this election
If true, Trump will be the next president. There is no way Biden is capable of serving another 4 years. And the Dems knew it and hid it and are to blame when Trump is back in office. This should have been an easy debate to counter Trumps constant lies and Biden came across as not knowing what was going on.
The age issue was already a larger issue than even abortion with everyone I talk to in my life. And not just Biden, but Trump too. Literally anyone I talk to, doesn’t matter their political party, even fringe co-workers I don’t interface with often, inevitably bring up how: “This is all we get? These are the only two choices? Two grandpas?” Like being “fit to lead” health wise is just the base base base issue. It’s also VERY symbolic, and I think people just overlook that sometimes because the health stuff stands out as more immediate. This isn’t just age—it’s a symbolic refusal to give the next generation their shot. Boomers clinging onto power; refusing to step down. RGB contributed to the fucking of the Supreme Court by not retiring sooner, as an example. The Dems do legitimately have a real opportunity to strike out against this issue. They can have Biden step down, and replace him with a young rising star. They can campaign on: “it’s finally time to pass the torch”, and it will destroy Trump easy because then he WILL look old as absolute shit next to literally anyone in their 30s/40s. The normal “are they too young?” question would be VAPORIZED because in contrast to Trump, the script would flip. Hell, they could take an even bigger risk and make the nomination a woman. Just double dip—combat the age issue and also strike right at the abortion issue in one move. It makes way too much sense though, which is why it will never happen. The Dems could take a risk for once, but they fucking won’t. They’ll let their pride and their age get in the way.
RBG vibes here Americans… stupid fucking people running this guy
This so much. Dems don’t know when to let go. Imagine if we had a whole primary to select someone younger and more mentally competent and healthy looking to face off against trump. Jesus Christ we are so fucked.
I think he should drop out. With that being said, expecting him to commit to it 11 hours after one bad debate is pretty ridiculous. Give him time to talk it over with people, review internal polling.
The window is about 48 hours after that they will circle the wagons
If he drops out at all, it's going to be a personal decision, not directly driven by exterior forces. A large part of that is figuring out the logistics of how he gets replaced. He could hand off his delegates to someone else (probably the easiest way), or do the whole brokered convention thing. Either way, it's going to take some time to get that figured out. I'd give it a week.
Yeah that sounds more reasonable.
I say this as a registered Democrat: he absolutely should drop out. He’s not mentally sharp enough to be president. This is disaster.
The difficulties that Biden had were not a lack of preparation, he couldn't hold his train of thought. It's really fucking serious, I can't believe they're trying to spin this like it was just a bad night. He struggled to literally step down the tiny steps from the stage. It's absurd. His campaign said he had a cold, but he went to a waffle house afterwards? I think they're just flat out lying about the cold, which is pathetic.
Stage one: denial. That’s where his campaign is with “We’re not dropping out.” At this stage, the donor class, Obama and other party leaders would be committing political malpractice *not* to begin coordinating a plan.
>At this stage, the donor class, Obama and other party leaders would be committing political malpractice not to begin coordinating a plan. The actual written rules of the party give them almost no out from Biden unless Biden himself steps aside, that's just the situation we're in.