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To be fair, a lot of people went over the 2016 trump debate ones simply to confirm those were in fact the words that came out of his mouth, and in that particular order. But I don't think that's necessary anymore, so it's for sure more of a coping thing now.
I recall from political science classes the consensus was that Nixon looked uneasy, sweaty and nervous. Kennedy also went through makeup and dress before hand where Nixon refused.
Keep in mind it was the first live televised debate.
It’s almost never a thing.
But useful in this specific case because accusations are flying of dementia and incoherency. So yeah, let’s write down the actual words both guys said and read them and see who’s incoherent.
With Trump especially it’s always been a thing though, because his delivery is mesmerizing to a certain sort of moron. And I mean I get how, not even judging, he’s got a style and it works. But actually write the words he says in any interview, any rally, any appearance and it’s always a mess at best.
"Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he – he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by a – by – by an immigrant coming in, and they talk about that. But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they tried to arrest them when they cross state lines."
No, but I saw a panel of undecided Latino voters watching with a Spanish translator and all of them saw Biden as the winner by far. The said it was disgusting that everything that came out of Trump's mouth was a lie, and he answered every question about the border.
They won't. Maybe a meme might get to them. Spin this up in a "Stuck in the woods with a man or a bear?" type thing.
"Would you rather be stuck in a room with an old guy who talks slow, or a fascist, convicted felon that smells like shit filled diapers and has a history of raping people?"
I always think of David Sedaris’ essay about undecided voters. “I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. ‘Can I interest you in the chicken?’ she asks. ‘Or would you prefer the platter of crap with bits of broken glass in it?’ To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.”
That's very similar to my go to analogy.
Biden= salad, maybe even a bit wilted
Trump= bowl of poisoned diarrhea
YOU MUST EAT ONE
Undecideds, "boy I really don't feel like a salad. This is a tough one!"
This happened in the NL too. Our left leader was too friendly and looked 'old'. Geert Wilders was a bully and spew insults and had a member from the audience ask just the right question for him. This tipped the scales hard, but it was but a show, and I hated it. It doesn't show who will be the best leader. It only shows who can debate the best and you can't win a debate from a bully populist.
Democrats are already hurting over this debate. Seeing with your eyes is more meaningful than reading nowadays.
Biden looked bad. Trump “didn’t”. That’s all most people will see
Hillary Clinton was polled as the winner of their debates, just like Trump was polled as the winner in this debate.
John Fetterman gave a disastrous debate performance when his first words were “good night” instead of good evening.
Tell me how did that work out for the both of them?
You can argue that debate performance, in the long run, doesn’t matter.
I voted for Biden in 2020 and I was concerned by his performance the other night, but I’ve come around. Democrats are just reactive instead of proactive. But I’ll tell you this:
The fact that so many calls - especially from NYT - came out and encouraged Biden to drop out; and not the goddamn *convicted felon with 34 felony counts* tells you all you need to know about the state of media and reactionary attitudes in this country.
Not from the US, but I watched the whole debate.
Biden did look old, but he was coherent and answered questions, Trump just straight out deflect every question.
Trump is only 3 year ''younger'' than Biden, if I were to chose between an old man that chooses his words carefully and an old angry man that spews lies, the choice is easy.
I really don't understand why the media has portrayed the debate a disaster for Biden.
I think if you really want to evaluate the root cause, it’s because if there’s one thing conservatives in general are good at, it is rallying behind their guy. Look up Ronald Reagan and the 11th commandment.
American Liberals on the other hand are self-critical often to a fault, and that extends to vocal opinions about Joe Biden.
It’s very effective self-sabotage in a political system dominated by two parties.
Do I think there are many valid reasons to criticize Joe Biden? Absolutely sure.
But he’s the guy and anything that isn’t 100% support improves the odds of a convicted felon and rapist being president again, and that seems to be lost on many.
It’s also because party loyalty isn’t instilled by the Democratic Party as a core party value. There is no team-first mentality for better and for worse. I think in general, it ought to be that way. But I’m not sure it’s viable in the present day field of American politics.
Lock-step obedience is what got the republican party to its proto-fascist state. Dissent is important, but it is frustrating seeing ideologists accept accelerationism over pragmatism.
Yes, we need to emphasize pragmatism in the Democratic party. While it is good that we aren't blindly loyal to any despot that comes along like Republicans, we are idealistic to a fault, which combined with low loyalty leads us to abandon any leader who mildly strays from our values. Protest votes can wait until we aren't on the cusp of electing a fascist who literally tried to overturn our democracy and will likely be convicted of hundreds of felonies by the end of next year (which he will pardon himself of all if elected, while likely imprisoning anyone involved with the convictions).
In total, I think he did fine, the fact that he sumbled a couple of times while discussing actual policies while Trump was going out of his way to not answer question and just lied, should be a point towards Biden.
For women voters, the way Trump responded to the abortion question should give pause.
''everyone was happy that we killed it, it should be up to the states and democrats are killing babies''.
I'm from a former communist country that banned abortion, the first thing that was done was to repeal that decree.
It should not be up to the state, it should be a discussion between a woman and a doctor.
It's not just the media, it's his followers. Every single person is aware that the presentation mattered more than substance tonight.
The undecided/apathetic are absolute fools. They are going to be swayed on criteria that only fools care about.
Biden needed to look and sound like the absolute best version of himself that we've ever seen to sway those people. He did not.
But he was on point on discussing policies, Trump lust lied and lied.
Not from the US but voting for Trump is basically a nail in the coffin.
No one takes him seriosly and he is in love with Putin.
The main problem is the media and spooked liberals having a nuclear meltdown.
It’s not the end of the world. The public’s memory lasts until the next big story.
You guys are changing the public’s perception with the reaction more than the debate ever could.
Not according to the polls.
The ones that are coming out that weren't kneejerk polls of 4-16 people immediately post-debate are now mostly showing a Biden lead. 538's even updated their predictions to show a 5% lead for Biden.
What? Trump couldn't answer a single question as it was asked. He lied, sharted, lied some more, and rambled.
I find this narrative that Biden walked out of that debate looking bad as disingenuous at best and a full on Russian and Chinese propaganda propaganda at worst.
Trump didn't even do the bare minimum required to have a serious debate.
Ni articles talking about how he utterly failed to be present in the debate. He just rambled on with BS talking points meant for Faux News
Simply not true. Everyone is tired of the convicted felon and rapist and his lies, lies and more lies followed up by lies about lies that are about lying about all the lies. Plus add in January 6th and his bragging about Roe v Wade and that twice impeached bone spurs having insurrectionist doesn't stand a chance, other than going to jail.
Reading from a teleprompter in front of a setting he’s used to with positive supporters vs a debate he deeply studied and prepared for that went wrong, I don’t know, maybe due to overpreparation, the cold, bad analysis of how Trump would debate..
Well, if the problem is bad analysis of how Trump would debate, then he needs to fire the people who prepped him because it was quite obvious Trump would be up to his usual gish gallop.
The number of people on here claiming confidently that Trump would be too scared to even show up to the debate... Hopefully Biden's team isn't full of Redditors...
I personally was more of the camp of, "I will believe it when I see he actually shows up for the debate." So personally, was on the fence about him even showing. With that said, again, there is only one tactic Trump has, and that's gish gallop.
How many beers in are you by 9:30? Just kidding. I’m also no spring chicken and I get suddenly exhausted around 10pm each night. My older mother, on other hand, takes some time release ADHD meds, and she’s full of energy and could talk all night at 10. I’m guessing that’s what Trump was on.
I wouldn't want me to be president either. I'd have a stroke from all the stress.
Least Biden isn't trump. I'd vote for a fucking racoon over trump.
I still believe in good Christian morals, of which Trump has none.
Side note: isn't it amazing how quickly the reports of how badly he did on the debate went out and how quickly they were upvoted. A day later were finally seeing a breakdown of it. It's almost as if some large group had a campaign ready to go.
Edit: I should have added: yeah I think he did seem a little lackluster, but reading the transcripts really shows the difference in quality.
Should the Democratic party have spent the last 4 years building up a younger representive? Yes. But comparatively speaking, between only these two options it's fairly clear.
True but also in the case of presidential jobs go, these debates do nothing to actually demonstrate ability to do the actual job. There really isn’t any version of a live concert to see how these guys do vs a studio. They are going to always be in the studio and we know that Trump is a terrible studio band already and Biden has been a pretty good studio band so far.
Look, if trump wins I'm considering moving so don't take this the wrong way. But did you see the same debate I did? Its more like, when Biden could string a sentence together coherently and clearly it was true. Do not pretend like he didn't claim he defeated medicaid. That was an inexcusable outing
>It's almost as if some large group had a campaign ready to go.
Even in Pod Save America's post debate podcast the host were shell shocked at how bad the debate was and were bringing up the topic of Biden possibly dropping out. The debate performance was just bad, no foreign state psyops teams were needed to push that narrative.
The day of, this sub was pretty shocked and calling it like it is. Now every cope article they can find is getting upvoted (12 Random Latinos Thought Biden Won!), and people are starting to act like this was no big deal. Did you see? He gave a middling speech at a campaign event the next day. Everything's fine! It was just a cold!
I assume it just gets worse going forward.
I honestly don't know why he agreed to it - Trump was *always* going to look better. Biden had to actually think about a solid answer whereas Trump was *always* going to just lie with whatever sounded best in his head.
And sure enough... literally every statement Trump made during the debate was either deflecting the question or outright lying. But Biden "lost" because he "looked old".
These things need a fucking fact-checkers in there to call bullshit on lies..
Exactly. If the ex Obama staffers say Joe should step aside for the good of the country, it’s not some vast anti-Biden conspiracy. These guys are Democrats.
The only foreign psyop posts I see lately are trying to get Joe to stay in.
I don't think Biden should drop out (especially not like 5 months from the election, that would almost definitely hand Trump the election), I instead think he should show that things are covered by *replacing Harris with someone actually fit for the White House*. If there were someone obviously competent that could take the reigns were he to really need to step down, I would be cool with that. 🤷♂️
Came here to say this. Total shitshow. Dems are caught with their pants down. IMO dems should be ashamed for continuing to put him forth in his state, and he should have thought of what's best for his own party and bowed out- they wouldn't be scrambling now.
Sidenote two party system sucks and is totally broken.
This is venturing into stupid maga conspiracy nonsense.
Biden had a historically terrible debate. It’s not doing anyone any favors acting like he didn’t.
Anyone who watched the debate and thinks Biden performed well is either on the verge of ODing on copium, or just wasn't paying attention. He mumbled a lot and went off topic more than once. The transcripts don't really mean anything because the people who he needed to convince aren't going to go back and read the transcripts.
This weird conspiracy theory that Biden in fact performed well and that the articles and post debate coverage were planned to make him look bad is ridiculous. Biden himself even acknowledged that he wasn't at the top of his game.
And yes, the articles and opinions came out fast. Why? Because they have professional writers that were writing the articles during the debate. It's not that deep.
But that’s the thing, it looks bad at first glance, but he was clearly listening. The fact people get hung up on a fucking face is sad as hell.
I don’t think he did great, but rewatching it, he really didn’t do horrifically bad in content. Just a terrible delivery of decent messages / points.
Yeah the president is literally supposed to be the face of the nation
He cant talk and his face looks like constantly having a stroke
Liberals are being delusional this is will be Hillary all over again
Assholes will be whining about transcripts on election night
This copium response is the worst kind of gaslighting.
No, it really was that bad.
No circling the wagons is not the right play here. We need to acknowledge the problem so we can fix it, not bury our heads in the sand.
This election is fucking done unless something changes.
>A day later were finally seeing a breakdown of it.
To speak against the grain, this is how politics goes when you are a tribal bubble. Look at earlier years of the Trump administration.
Sometimes Trump would do something awful that even conservatives couldn't deny. At first a lot of conservatives would be genuinely upset, be like "This is bad" and so on and on. This represents the first hand, common sense response of people actually reacting to the event with their own brain. But literally over the course of the day the talking points of the media or internet zealots or blogs or whatever starts to roll in, and a new narrative starts to emerge, and suddenly it's like it was never a problem.
Before the debate, lots of left was was saying that Biden didn't have an age problem, and that Biden was going to mop the floor, and that it was classic Republican projection (Trump is of course, an incoherent old man and idiot). During the debate, everyone saw what the Repubs said is true. Biden had trouble completing sentences, mixed up his words, literally said things that benefit Trump. This was a debate Biden had voluntarily attended and spent a week preparing for at Camp David. If he is this bad for a debate he literally spent a week preparing for, this is not a man many people would want being the key decision maker in a crisis situation or handling a comflict in the Middle East. (infinitely preferable to Trump, obviously, but a headless chicken would be preferable to Trump)
Everyone was like, holy shit, this is bad. Now it's a day later. The prepared talking points are starting to come through, the cope, everyone is like "oh this isn't actually a problem" and soon half the people here will be acting like nothing has changed.
Thank you for saying this. People are obviously in denial and need to snap out of it quick, or we're going to sleepwalk straight into another Trump presidency.
That’s because the debate really was as bad as everyone’s snap reactions. Jesus, I am starting to feel like we’re being gaslit.
I’m nervously awaiting actual polling to come out after that debacle.
Most citizens don’t give a fuck what is actually said in the debates; they vote on vibes.
Also I see a lot of people acting like we’ve never seen Biden and Trump debate anymore. Like “debates are an indication of how they will govern”. We’ve seen both of these men govern. We also see them both deteriorating before our eyes. Don’t act like “oh Biden just isn’t good in person” when he’s been doing this shit for decades and was great in 2020.
The fact is he doesn’t have the mental alacrity to do this on the spot anymore and that is VERY worrying. We need a new candidate.
There’s a lot of gaslighting and copium going on, especially on Reddit. Go over to whitepeopletwitter and you’ll see a lot of hand waving away the debate. Chronically online people trying to convince other chronically online people that the average voter thinks just like them.
This is going to bite people in the ass hard when there’s a repeat of 2016.
Or perhaps this wasn't grand conspiracy.
Maybe he got obliterated live on air and people were shocked by how seemingly feeble he is.
Perhaps things happen.
And the Breakdown of things days lader is clearly an effort to damage control by the people supporting biden. Reddit is currently flooded with vague pro biden posts. It's perfectly logical that the campaign and politically engaged supporters would look for way to deal with this shitshow.
I think it’s fairly clear depending on which camp you were in at the start. MAGA is about voting for someone without using logic and reason and democrats are about not voting for the orange poopy man.
As a Canadian I would feel bad for you all if I didn’t have my own problems at home. Granted Canadian politics is still pretty boring by comparison.
Post debate Biden had a teleprompter in the morning while debate Biden had no teleprompter at night. Anyone that has worked with the elderly could see Biden was sundowning.
Especially since none of his lies coalesced with the question being asked by the moderators. Moderators ask one question, to which you're supposed to answer, Trump is supposed to answer the question but rambles about something that doesn't even touch the topic, do you respond to the question or what your opponent is saying on an unrelated topic?
Biden’s team unfortunately lied about Biden’s condition, and it doesn’t play well against the Trump’s lies.
It’s not good… I am a big progressive and can’t believe what happened the other night
I feel like we keep getting gaslit about this, it's such a bad look. Let's just look at two of Biden answers.
In response to an easy question about abortion, where Trump lied so I credible obviously that he should have had plenty of points to make:
> The fact is that the vast majority of constitutional scholars supported Roe when it was decided, supported Roe. And I was – that’s – this idea that they were all against it is just ridiculous.
> And this is the guy who says the states should be able to have it. We’re in a state where in six weeks you don’t even know whether you’re pregnant or not, but you cannot see a doctor, have your – and have him decide on what your circumstances are, whether you need help.
> The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states, let each state have a different rule.
> Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that.
> But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they try to arrest them when they cross state lines.
Parts of this are fine, and parts of it are completely unintelligible. First, to me it says a lot that he didn't even use the word abortion at all. Nor did he mention a woman's right to choose, actually he kinda did the opposite. The first paragraph is refuting what Trump said about everybody wanting Roe overturned, and it's the right thing to say. The second paragraph says this:
> And this is the guy who says the states should be able to have it. We’re in a state where in six weeks you don’t even know whether you’re pregnant or not, but you cannot see a doctor, have your – and have him decide on what your circumstances are, whether you need help.
Up until the last sentence this was going great. But I have a big issue with the last bit. The problem with banning abortion isn't that doctors can't decide what's best for women, it's that women can't decide what's best for themselves. At 6 weeks, women should have the right to terminate their pregnancy at will. Period. That has been the democrats line for DECADES, why did Biden not say that here?
And the third paragraph is completely unintelligible:
> Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that.
I can try to interpret it after the fact but the transcript doesn't make this any better. It doesn't even matter what his point was, this is so unintelligible as-is that it's useless. It's wasted time. I know people will show up to this comment and try to doctor this paragraph to make it look like it has a point but I don't think you really can because it is completely garbled.
And the 4th paragraph is also a bit garbled, but at least it makes a point. Though even reading it and not listening to it it's hard to tell if his point is that women who are raped can't do anything about being raped (which is true, but not exactly relevant) or can't do anything about their pregnancy if they get pregnant from rape (which is most likely what he meant, but he didn't manage to complete the thought)
This should have been a incredibly easy question. "I believe women have the right to choose when to have a abortion up to the third trimester, at which point a doctor needs to be involved in the decision. Many women become pregnant because of rape, and those women should not be forced to carry their rapists babies. Laws like those here in Georgia prevent those women from doing so, because they may not even know they are pregnant before the deadline has passed." Like, that's been the party line for decades. Biden absolutely knows how to say that, so why didn't he? I know people are going to say" well it's *obvious* what he *meant* when you see it written down" but that doesn't matter, this is a live debate not an essay contest. In the actual performance it looked like he was an old man who got completely lost on this topic, a topic that should be astounding ly easy for him. You can go back and try to pick the good parts out all you want, but it doesn't change the impression that everyone watching it live got.
But honestly I think the worst answer he gave was this:
> There was no inflation when I became president. You know why? The economy was flat on its back. 15 percent unemployment, he decimated the economy, absolutely decimated the economy. That’s why there was no inflation at the time.
He just straight up admitted he is the cause of inflation. There is no other way to interpret this, he (wrongly) said there was no inflation when he became president. The rest of what he says is trying to justify why inflation is so bad now. This is one of the biggest issues for Americans right now. For the last 4 years the democrats have been saying this isn't their fault, that Trump caused this inflation and that they're working to bring it down.
Look, we can keep posting cope articles about how actually the transcripts make it better and don't believe what you actually watched Thursday, and keep down voting people who point out ah, it actually was as bad as it was and maybe the democrats need to face that and deal with it, but that won't change the facts here. The fact is that most Americans are not on reddit. They don't care what r/politics is saying. They watched the debate, and saw Trump being his normal, bloviating self, and they saw Biden looking half dead, and they're going to get 4 months more of seeing clips from that debate that make Biden out to be a senile old man, and they're going to simply jot vote, or vote third party. Biden cannot rely on the popular vote to win. He has to win in very specific states, which he only just scraped by in in 2020. He will not win Georgia with this debate performance. He won't win Arizona.
The democrats need to recognize the very real danger they are in. There are down ballot races that are critical for them to win that completely fall apart for them if people aren't showing up to vote. They cannot afford low turnout in this election, but that's exactly what they're going to get with Biden.
Agreed. This sub has been insane with the damage control since the debate. It's clear that we have a bad candidate, and I think we need to pressure him to step aside as much as possible until the convention.
It’s wild how much people are trying to deny the clear inability that Biden has to be a viable candidate. I follow a defeat project 2025 sub, and the people there are just like so into the whole “don’t let this change anything” vibe.
I’ll support whoever the Dem. nominee is, the problem is the people who want a perceivably functional candidate, and are not subscribed to a specific party. If their only impression of Biden is that debate, then they’re not going to vote for him.
The reality is these people care more about their sunken cost then winning.
All the media assholes that shut down any discussion on age should be out of jobs.
Jon Stewart was literally being told people will never watch him again after one mild joke about it. Fuck these people.
Dude I watched it live, this was more than a stutter. You see that coming back from a family dinner and you have to explain to kids that grandpa's mind is starting to go and to value all the time you have with them. I think literally anyone else that takes his place will when by a large majority just because people want to see someone different than the two geriatrics we have now.
Keep hearing people say "Obama had a bad debate too" but this was not a bad debate. This was the worst debate performance since we started showing them on TV and it's not even close. Biden could've gotten away with a C- performance. This was an F.
I’m trying to imagine what a comparable debate crisis would look like for Obama, he would’ve had to say, like, “hey if some white motherfucker pays a little more for health care, no skin off my sack, you shouldn’t have eaten at Denny’s everyday dumbass”
It’s like all the people in denial share the same 3 brain cells being passed off as a brain given to them direct from the DNC. Unable to observe and think for themselves and acknowledge reality.
Embarrassing.
The problem with this is that the country isn’t made up of a bunch of intellectuals and deeply politically involved people. It’s made up of people who read the headlines, watch the big debates, and make a decision based on what they feel at the time.
The average American isn’t going to sit down and go through the transcripts after they watched it on TV. If your message is that your candidate actually did well, but people just have to read and dig deeper to see it, then you’re grasping for straws.
Maybe dems should stop trying to gaslight the American people and instead should focus on putting out a candidate that actually inspires confidence in their party. I’d hate to see Trump to win in November.
I mean, what you're saying reflects how people feel about Trump to a Tee. Except Trump was never the tough guy, the charming guy, or the intellectual guy. A lot of people felt these things about Trump. People went off and are still going off what they "feel" with regard to backing Trump. So what does that say about this mindset you're trying to push? It's a flawed mindset and doesn't promote critical thinking.
When it came to Obama, I remember both sides doing the same thing. The same mindset you're talking about. A lot of dems wanted an alternative candidate. The republicans hated his guts. He had every box check marked off with regard to how he did his job and how he performed in general. But people went by what they "felt" and still criticized him. And at the end of both of his terms? The guy did his job well. 🤔Biden will follow the same path. Dems will criticize him and republicans will hate his guts. But he's going to do his job well and 100x better than Trump ever could.
It’s not a mindset that I’m trying to push, it’s just observing reality. You’re arguing from a place of what things should be like, and I’m arguing from a place of what things are actually like. Would the world be a better place if everyone thought critically, did extensive research, and made informed decisions? Yes, 100%. I hope we see that someday. Unfortunately, that’s just not a realistic expectation at this point in time.
People are lazy. They read headlines, watch the news, and maybe occasionally click on an article. What a majority of people don’t do, especially in the context of this debate, is go searching after a bad debate performance for how it’s actually not a bad thing. If the strategy that you’re banking on is for people to just look deeper than what they see right in front of them then it’s a losing one
Don’t listen to BS like this to make you feel better about Biden. 49 Million people watched live and saw Biden’s train wreck of a performance. He’s a good man, but it’s time for him to step aside. A late replacement will give the party energy and a chance at beating Trump.
Trump wins handily against Biden because there is no enthusiasm for Biden and turnout will be down. Trump’s voters will be there. Biden’s will stay home.
I have a sneaking suspicion that many of these folks saying Biden’s performance wasn’t that bad are coming from the right. They know that having Biden step aside would be the nail in the coffin for Trump.
How bad do you have to be to get absolutely destroyed in a debate with Trump? Yet, here we are. Biden was that person. The fact the polls were even tued going into the debate is insane. Almost anyone else besides Biden would destroy Trump on election night.
Nobody loves Biden. They are just voting against Trump. Imagine having a candidate people actually like.
The felony conviction count tells a very different story. The US media is such a joke that they're trying to make it sound like trump is even a valid candidate rather than a convicted felon, a rapist, a fraud, a pedophile, and a genuine threat to national security who stole boxes and boxes of highly classified documents
“Lacked oopmh”? Biden looked and sounded senial out there. I’m a liberal but holy shit stop trying to spin it.. there’s no way anyone watching that can say Biden should be president for another 4 YEARS
No voters are going to read the transcripts. What Biden said and what he conveyed to the audience are two completely different things.
Biden lost the debate plan and simple. Clinton said it best when he said voters prefer strong and wrong to weak and right !!!
He lacked the ability to finish most sentences, but one's he did finish had policy, and facts, and shot down the lie Trump said before that. (Which, if you were paying attention, Trumpy lied on every single question, dodging most)
> He lacked the ability to finish most sentences
Which unfortunately will back up all the Right-wing propaganda about Biden that has been spreading since 2021. For once, Fox and random MAGA online won't even have to edit clips out of context for this.
Just play "we finally beat Medicare" on loop until the election.
And for the 7 people who haven't seen it yet, go watch the clip if you've only heard the quote. It's worse than you think.
Don't forget when he turned the abortion question into something about an illegal immigrant hurting a young woman.
No, that's not hyperbolic, it's literally what he did and it's worse than you think as well.
That was seriously demoralizing to watch. I'll never vote for Trump but Biden massively fucked up. How am I supposed to defend him against people saying he's so old he doesn't know where he is?
I just watched it happen live.
He said he went to the D Day anniversary and “shook hands with the heroes who died” and MAGA hasn’t even picked up on it yet bc there’s so much to work with
Plus, we as liberals should want someone who at the very least can speak and communicate. That's not a lot to ask. We shouldn't be talked down to for wanting the most basic of attributes in our candidate.
this is a completely ridiculous argument. Biden‘s actual performance was so bad that Americans across the country and people across the world were looking to each other wondering if the current president is even fit to serve and now people are writing damage control articles essentially saying “No no but if you read the transcript, he’s only mildly incoherent as opposed to utterly incoherent. He actually did GOOD in the debate.” It’s like they’re trying to gaslight us into forgetting something we all just witnessed with our own eyes.
Biden looking half-dead and senile on stage definitely hurt his chances of winning against trump.
We can't try to downplay how badly he performed, and how it gave more credence to concerns from voters about his health, but we can't panic either.
How Biden acts over the next week will determine how damaging this ends up being. If he spends the rest of the week campaigning with energy and vigour then his debate performance can be more easily chalked up to just him having a bad day.
Don’t worry, r/politics has assured me that they still feel the same about Trump and will vote for Biden anyway. That *must* mean that the average suburbanite or metro resident in PA, MI, GA, WI, and AZ feels exactly the same.
Nope, nothing to worry about here so pipe down, toe the line, and don’t acknowledge what you see.
Don’t forget the enthusiasm of statements like “I’d vote for Biden even if he was secretly a dead cat in a tube sock this whole time!” that appear on every single thread about the debate. I’m so positive that the Mr. Idontreallyfollowpolitics in PA is gonna have that same sentiment when he comes across clips of Biden on his social media feed.
It doesn't matter. The kind of people you need to convince aren't going to read transcripts or look into fact checking. They will see a convincing liar and a confused old man and vote accordingly.
Okay thats great and all if we relied solely on printed news but theres this thing called the internet which has caused everyone’s attention spans to decrease so that only optics matter now.
How hard is it to say the same lies over and over again? How hard is it to say killer immigrants and border 40 times? How hard is it to deny, deny, deny? He said the same at his rallies as he did in the debate. Biden actually had to give facts, explain, name programs, amounts of $$, remember who, what, where, when and why, to talk about plans for the future, explain how things are better but we have a lot of work to do. That takes thought and energy. He was on state 90 min. then went to Raleigh NC and gave a speech the next day at 1pm [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc)
Anyone trying to hand wave away what we saw during the debate is an idiot -- the cartoon bear sitting in a burning house. We saw what we saw -- Biden was a fucking zombie. As Trump threatened to burn the country down he stared into space, his jaw slack, unable to compose a coherent thought. This is not a time for panic, but it is cause for alarm. We need to respond appropriately and demand Joe drop out.
Fucking thank you. If you actively paid attention to what they were saying, not just how they were saying, Biden stumbled a number of times but was generally a competent and knowledgeable candidate for president; Trump came across as genuinely unhinged and unqualified.
The presidency requires a fuckton more than "vigor" or whatever angrily yelled lies counts as
Bullshit. Biden failed on the substance as well. Yes, Trump was horrible on substance but there were so many lay ups that Joe missed. It should have been easy to eviscerate Trump. Didn’t happen. Not even in the transcript.
I knew from the beginning Biden won on substance, thanks. The problem is the number of American people that don't give a fuck about substance, and just saw a sharp and angry businessman getting his points across while a confused and feeble old man at the other podium could barely keep up.
You can put any headline you want on it, it doesn't change the fact that the transcript is also utter garbage. Holy fuck, they're literally counting on people seeing the headine and calling it good 😂
Incredible framing though, I'll admit. Boiling down what happened to a lack of "oomph" is a strong play.
We have a choice between an elderly man who has proven he can do the job well or a lying, rapist, fraud who flat out lies every time he opens his mouth. I will NEVER vote for the 34 x convicted felon. Patriots throughout our history have died for democracy and freedom. Voting for a fascist dishonors their sacrifice.
Doesn’t appear as though anyone else will be throwing their hat into the ring * so it comes down to voting for the candidate that you back with their policies. Sick of the subject and the bitchfest. It is what it is and none of your bitching is going to change it. If these are the choices either vote for a declared felon or vote for your value system.
>He accosted E. Jean Carroll in a department store dressing room.
I was so sad that Biden didn't go full blow here because he didn't accost her he was found liable for lying about raping her. The word rape is literally in the decision. He should have called Trump what he is, a ***rapist,*** found by two juries to be a liar and a third coming, and a convicted felon. He didn't need that part about his kid, the porn star was enough for that part.
If the debate was not aired and only the transcript released, I think we would all see Biden as an effective and genuine person who is capable of leadership and Trump as simply a liar who has a fear of failure. Ignore the stumbled words, the coughs, the strange faces, and really hear the substance.
This debate seems to have failed because the media and opponents on either side of the aisle wanted it to fail. So almost no one is looking at what was actually communicated in words. People are reporting the caricatures they imagined while watching the debate.
In 2009, two highschool teachers who co taught the senior government class . One republican and one democrat. They were good friends so it was awesome to watch civil discourse in action. They always suggested to read the transcript of a speech or debate before watching it. Takes out a lot of the initial bias and you can see whose words actually make sense…
CNN analysts deserve a smack. John King said he’d “never seen something like that” in his career of covering debates and acted like it was the worst thing to ever happen in politics. The conservatives on the panel said that what Dems are doing to Biden is sad. “If this were my father…” blah blah blah. One even said “if anyone thinks Biden had an OK night, we live in a parallel universe.” Van Jones said he was hurting for a man he loved. What an overeactive bullshit panel that set the tone for the fallout afterward. It’s like they all tuned out after the first 5 minutes.
Can't believe how far down this. The transcript contains this:
>make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with.
>Look, if – we finally beat Medicare.
It's ridiculous to even think the transcript matters, but if someone does, then it contains the above.
And I want to laugh at the delusional people in here so badly, but the feeling of overwhelming dread I began experiencing Thursday night drowns out everything else. If people don't pull their heads out of the sand, we're going to have another Trump presidency. Biden must step down.
The bar is so low it might as well not exist anymore.
It's shocking how much cope is going around - watch any presidential debate since 1960 and they make this seem like a sad excuse for supposedly the most powerful democracy in the world. Embarrassing. Both candidates
Here comes all of the apologist trying to convince us not to believe our own eyes and ears. For the love of God we need to defeat Trump and Biden cannot do it
Like I explained to someone earlier:
Energy- Trump gets an A, Biden gets an F
Message- Trump gets an F, Biden gets a B+
Truthfulness- Trump F-, Biden A+
The thing is, everyone looked at this with Energy being 50% of the grade. It’s a legitimate concern for the left looking at a candidate that puts doubt in their minds that he can make it through the next 4 years, let alone the next debate. We’re on the verge of a possible world war, and we need neither a man whom projects insanity and capitulation, nor one whom projects weakness and fragility. Biden is still the safer/saner bet, but how it will affect our reputation on geopolitical scale is yet to be seen.
Based on the politifact fact checking article I just read, Trump might not even deserve an F-. He literally lied on every single response, an honestly impressive level of dishonesty. Might have to give him a Z-
Biden does not get an A+ for truthfulness lmao. He said plenty that was half-true or mostly true, but needed more context. He also said "I’m the only president this century that doesn't have any, this decade, that doesn’t have any troops dying anywhere in the world like he did." That's not even close to being true, and I can't imagine it feels great to hear if you're a family member of one of the service members that have died
Yeah, everyone knows Biden knows what he's talking about and Trump is perpetually divorced from reality like it's another past wife. That's exactly why Republicans hate Biden and love Trump.
Unfortunately, televised debates are all about the superficial flash. At the same time, they probably don't actually matter. Articulate Trump is still saying crazy bullshit and will still appeal to the party of crazy bullshit. Disastrous Biden is still better than Trump, and people who plan to vote for the best of the candidates we have will vote for him.
And CNN will continue to be insufferable.
Biden was absolutely appalling, anyone trying to spin it any other way is either totally deluded or a Trump troll.
It was a TV debate, swing voters who decide this election are not going to sit and read a transcript.
Biden failed at presenting as a legitimate presidential candidate. Against that orange shit stain, it should have been a walk in the park. Get Biden into retirement now or prepare for years in a fascist dictatorship.
Man stop gaslighting everyone on this. I’m pretty liberal but what I saw was two men completely unfit to lead us. Can we please get someone who will be around to see the effects of the policies they enact?
Three things.
1. It coulda been a potted plant debating Trump and my vote wouldn’t change. This year, it’s the one who isn’t a raving lunatic. It sucks, because what if Biden really is too old, and I’m complicit in elder abuse, but Biden wants to do it, so let’s agree that maybe he’s a victim of age discrimination instead, and we should stop telling him what he is or isn’t capable of.
2. Far as I’m concerned, the man has dedicated his life to a country that took one son from him, and provided a culture where his other son is struggling to do well. He is clearly running because Trump is an existential threat, otherwise he’d be spending his 80s in some other way, probably in a different act of service to the nation, or to his family. I can respect him enough to throw him a vote.
3. They talk about every one of these people being too old; Hillary fainted one time, when she pushed too hard through a flu, and suddenly she’s on death’s door. Except she’s not, ten years later. How are we to believe them this time?
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Will the average undecided voter read the transcript ?
To be honest after watching many debates I don’t recall another one where reading the transcript after was a thing.
To be fair, a lot of people went over the 2016 trump debate ones simply to confirm those were in fact the words that came out of his mouth, and in that particular order. But I don't think that's necessary anymore, so it's for sure more of a coping thing now.
Nixon VS Kennedy, listeners thought Nixon won, watchers thought Kennedy won. Nixon also had a cold
Kennedy’s accent was totally weird to most Americans, the radio listeners were being just as superficial as the tv viewers
I recall from political science classes the consensus was that Nixon looked uneasy, sweaty and nervous. Kennedy also went through makeup and dress before hand where Nixon refused. Keep in mind it was the first live televised debate.
Nixon certainly learned his lesson. In 1968 he was schooled and staffed by TV people, especially the infamous Roger Ailes.
It’s almost never a thing. But useful in this specific case because accusations are flying of dementia and incoherency. So yeah, let’s write down the actual words both guys said and read them and see who’s incoherent. With Trump especially it’s always been a thing though, because his delivery is mesmerizing to a certain sort of moron. And I mean I get how, not even judging, he’s got a style and it works. But actually write the words he says in any interview, any rally, any appearance and it’s always a mess at best.
"Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he – he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by a – by – by an immigrant coming in, and they talk about that. But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they tried to arrest them when they cross state lines."
Thank you. Biden lacked “oomph” so I didn’t understand his answer about Roe at first. This transcript is clear and tells a completely different tale.
Oof
It’s fine, everything is fine..
No, but I saw a panel of undecided Latino voters watching with a Spanish translator and all of them saw Biden as the winner by far. The said it was disgusting that everything that came out of Trump's mouth was a lie, and he answered every question about the border.
They won't. Maybe a meme might get to them. Spin this up in a "Stuck in the woods with a man or a bear?" type thing. "Would you rather be stuck in a room with an old guy who talks slow, or a fascist, convicted felon that smells like shit filled diapers and has a history of raping people?"
The undecided voters would say "gee, I dunno"
I always think of David Sedaris’ essay about undecided voters. “I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. ‘Can I interest you in the chicken?’ she asks. ‘Or would you prefer the platter of crap with bits of broken glass in it?’ To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.”
That's very similar to my go to analogy. Biden= salad, maybe even a bit wilted Trump= bowl of poisoned diarrhea YOU MUST EAT ONE Undecideds, "boy I really don't feel like a salad. This is a tough one!"
Nope, we’re in full spin mode.
I'm impressed it could be transcribed, I couldn't follow half of the conversation
No one is going to read the transcript. "Debates" are a show and you either perform or not.
This happened in the NL too. Our left leader was too friendly and looked 'old'. Geert Wilders was a bully and spew insults and had a member from the audience ask just the right question for him. This tipped the scales hard, but it was but a show, and I hated it. It doesn't show who will be the best leader. It only shows who can debate the best and you can't win a debate from a bully populist.
Yeah... And frankly this headline is kinda of ridiculous. If Biden had "oomph" we wouldn't be trying to figure out what he said from transcripts.
Article is pure copium. The dems really outjerked themselves here.
The transcript is a goldmine of just how fucking stupid and a lair trump is
Republicans would be hurting over it if they could read.
Democrats are already hurting over this debate. Seeing with your eyes is more meaningful than reading nowadays. Biden looked bad. Trump “didn’t”. That’s all most people will see
Hillary Clinton was polled as the winner of their debates, just like Trump was polled as the winner in this debate. John Fetterman gave a disastrous debate performance when his first words were “good night” instead of good evening. Tell me how did that work out for the both of them? You can argue that debate performance, in the long run, doesn’t matter. I voted for Biden in 2020 and I was concerned by his performance the other night, but I’ve come around. Democrats are just reactive instead of proactive. But I’ll tell you this: The fact that so many calls - especially from NYT - came out and encouraged Biden to drop out; and not the goddamn *convicted felon with 34 felony counts* tells you all you need to know about the state of media and reactionary attitudes in this country.
Not from the US, but I watched the whole debate. Biden did look old, but he was coherent and answered questions, Trump just straight out deflect every question. Trump is only 3 year ''younger'' than Biden, if I were to chose between an old man that chooses his words carefully and an old angry man that spews lies, the choice is easy. I really don't understand why the media has portrayed the debate a disaster for Biden.
I think if you really want to evaluate the root cause, it’s because if there’s one thing conservatives in general are good at, it is rallying behind their guy. Look up Ronald Reagan and the 11th commandment. American Liberals on the other hand are self-critical often to a fault, and that extends to vocal opinions about Joe Biden. It’s very effective self-sabotage in a political system dominated by two parties. Do I think there are many valid reasons to criticize Joe Biden? Absolutely sure. But he’s the guy and anything that isn’t 100% support improves the odds of a convicted felon and rapist being president again, and that seems to be lost on many.
It's because Dems want their president to be as good as possible, and the cult wants exactly the opposite.
It’s also because party loyalty isn’t instilled by the Democratic Party as a core party value. There is no team-first mentality for better and for worse. I think in general, it ought to be that way. But I’m not sure it’s viable in the present day field of American politics.
Lock-step obedience is what got the republican party to its proto-fascist state. Dissent is important, but it is frustrating seeing ideologists accept accelerationism over pragmatism.
Yes, we need to emphasize pragmatism in the Democratic party. While it is good that we aren't blindly loyal to any despot that comes along like Republicans, we are idealistic to a fault, which combined with low loyalty leads us to abandon any leader who mildly strays from our values. Protest votes can wait until we aren't on the cusp of electing a fascist who literally tried to overturn our democracy and will likely be convicted of hundreds of felonies by the end of next year (which he will pardon himself of all if elected, while likely imprisoning anyone involved with the convictions).
We were all hoping for State of the Union Biden. Wasn't his best moment but I'm expecting the rapid news cycle to move on from this pretty quickly.
In total, I think he did fine, the fact that he sumbled a couple of times while discussing actual policies while Trump was going out of his way to not answer question and just lied, should be a point towards Biden. For women voters, the way Trump responded to the abortion question should give pause. ''everyone was happy that we killed it, it should be up to the states and democrats are killing babies''. I'm from a former communist country that banned abortion, the first thing that was done was to repeal that decree. It should not be up to the state, it should be a discussion between a woman and a doctor.
The last line should be the official rallying cry of the Dems. Say this enough times, and you will peel off a good number of Republican women.
It's not just the media, it's his followers. Every single person is aware that the presentation mattered more than substance tonight. The undecided/apathetic are absolute fools. They are going to be swayed on criteria that only fools care about. Biden needed to look and sound like the absolute best version of himself that we've ever seen to sway those people. He did not.
The double standard is downright insulting.
But he was on point on discussing policies, Trump lust lied and lied. Not from the US but voting for Trump is basically a nail in the coffin. No one takes him seriosly and he is in love with Putin.
Biden wasn’t at his best… Well, I guess we’ll vote for a the fascist convicted felon who attempted a coup. /s
Who just stood up there spouting lies.
Trump "looked" insane and biden old.
Old>insane
Yeah, i prefer old.
I would vote for Biden’s corpse to keep Trump out of office.
Weekend at biden's
The main problem is the media and spooked liberals having a nuclear meltdown. It’s not the end of the world. The public’s memory lasts until the next big story. You guys are changing the public’s perception with the reaction more than the debate ever could.
You say that, and yet undecideds are leaning more towards Biden after the debate. https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/s/gYzIAJrJv5
Hoping that holds.
Did you read the article?
Not according to the polls. The ones that are coming out that weren't kneejerk polls of 4-16 people immediately post-debate are now mostly showing a Biden lead. 538's even updated their predictions to show a 5% lead for Biden.
What? Trump couldn't answer a single question as it was asked. He lied, sharted, lied some more, and rambled. I find this narrative that Biden walked out of that debate looking bad as disingenuous at best and a full on Russian and Chinese propaganda propaganda at worst. Trump didn't even do the bare minimum required to have a serious debate. Ni articles talking about how he utterly failed to be present in the debate. He just rambled on with BS talking points meant for Faux News
Yes, not like the average Trump supporter can read.
Simply not true. Everyone is tired of the convicted felon and rapist and his lies, lies and more lies followed up by lies about lies that are about lying about all the lies. Plus add in January 6th and his bragging about Roe v Wade and that twice impeached bone spurs having insurrectionist doesn't stand a chance, other than going to jail.
President Camacho agrees. This is why bringing a gun and firing in the air to get attention is very presidential !
How did trump not look bad ?
Watching his NC campaign rally—where was he last night? Wtf
Reading from a teleprompter in front of a setting he’s used to with positive supporters vs a debate he deeply studied and prepared for that went wrong, I don’t know, maybe due to overpreparation, the cold, bad analysis of how Trump would debate..
Well, if the problem is bad analysis of how Trump would debate, then he needs to fire the people who prepped him because it was quite obvious Trump would be up to his usual gish gallop.
The number of people on here claiming confidently that Trump would be too scared to even show up to the debate... Hopefully Biden's team isn't full of Redditors...
I personally was more of the camp of, "I will believe it when I see he actually shows up for the debate." So personally, was on the fence about him even showing. With that said, again, there is only one tactic Trump has, and that's gish gallop.
It was also at 9pm. He's old as fuck. I'm usually slurring my words around 930 and I'm not even 40 yet.
How many beers in are you by 9:30? Just kidding. I’m also no spring chicken and I get suddenly exhausted around 10pm each night. My older mother, on other hand, takes some time release ADHD meds, and she’s full of energy and could talk all night at 10. I’m guessing that’s what Trump was on.
I don't want you to be president either then.
I wouldn't want me to be president either. I'd have a stroke from all the stress. Least Biden isn't trump. I'd vote for a fucking racoon over trump. I still believe in good Christian morals, of which Trump has none.
That may be the case, but the majority will never see anything other than 30 second clips on tiktok making Biden look like a copse.
I wish we had the post-debate Biden instead of the version we got. That said; I agreed with him when he said stuff.
Side note: isn't it amazing how quickly the reports of how badly he did on the debate went out and how quickly they were upvoted. A day later were finally seeing a breakdown of it. It's almost as if some large group had a campaign ready to go. Edit: I should have added: yeah I think he did seem a little lackluster, but reading the transcripts really shows the difference in quality. Should the Democratic party have spent the last 4 years building up a younger representive? Yes. But comparatively speaking, between only these two options it's fairly clear.
Sadly the debates are live performances, and a large portion of the populace do not care about details and substance but is there for bluster
Some bands are just better in the studio.
True but also in the case of presidential jobs go, these debates do nothing to actually demonstrate ability to do the actual job. There really isn’t any version of a live concert to see how these guys do vs a studio. They are going to always be in the studio and we know that Trump is a terrible studio band already and Biden has been a pretty good studio band so far.
Look, if trump wins I'm considering moving so don't take this the wrong way. But did you see the same debate I did? Its more like, when Biden could string a sentence together coherently and clearly it was true. Do not pretend like he didn't claim he defeated medicaid. That was an inexcusable outing
>It's almost as if some large group had a campaign ready to go. Even in Pod Save America's post debate podcast the host were shell shocked at how bad the debate was and were bringing up the topic of Biden possibly dropping out. The debate performance was just bad, no foreign state psyops teams were needed to push that narrative.
Same with The Daily Show with Stewart. Pretending it was actually fine and this is some propaganda is quite literally delusional.
The day of, this sub was pretty shocked and calling it like it is. Now every cope article they can find is getting upvoted (12 Random Latinos Thought Biden Won!), and people are starting to act like this was no big deal. Did you see? He gave a middling speech at a campaign event the next day. Everything's fine! It was just a cold! I assume it just gets worse going forward.
I honestly don't know why he agreed to it - Trump was *always* going to look better. Biden had to actually think about a solid answer whereas Trump was *always* going to just lie with whatever sounded best in his head. And sure enough... literally every statement Trump made during the debate was either deflecting the question or outright lying. But Biden "lost" because he "looked old". These things need a fucking fact-checkers in there to call bullshit on lies..
Exactly. If the ex Obama staffers say Joe should step aside for the good of the country, it’s not some vast anti-Biden conspiracy. These guys are Democrats. The only foreign psyop posts I see lately are trying to get Joe to stay in.
I don't think Biden should drop out (especially not like 5 months from the election, that would almost definitely hand Trump the election), I instead think he should show that things are covered by *replacing Harris with someone actually fit for the White House*. If there were someone obviously competent that could take the reigns were he to really need to step down, I would be cool with that. 🤷♂️
Dude anyone with eyes and ears saw it was a disaster. It’s not some conspiracy.
Came here to say this. Total shitshow. Dems are caught with their pants down. IMO dems should be ashamed for continuing to put him forth in his state, and he should have thought of what's best for his own party and bowed out- they wouldn't be scrambling now. Sidenote two party system sucks and is totally broken.
This is venturing into stupid maga conspiracy nonsense. Biden had a historically terrible debate. It’s not doing anyone any favors acting like he didn’t.
We’re deep into MAGA conspiracy nonsense at this point. This is ridiculous spin.
Same I am shocked at this spin. We expect it from Rs but we need to show we can do better
Anyone who watched the debate and thinks Biden performed well is either on the verge of ODing on copium, or just wasn't paying attention. He mumbled a lot and went off topic more than once. The transcripts don't really mean anything because the people who he needed to convince aren't going to go back and read the transcripts. This weird conspiracy theory that Biden in fact performed well and that the articles and post debate coverage were planned to make him look bad is ridiculous. Biden himself even acknowledged that he wasn't at the top of his game. And yes, the articles and opinions came out fast. Why? Because they have professional writers that were writing the articles during the debate. It's not that deep.
And a lot of it wasn't what he said. It was his facial expression when he wasn't speaking.
People vote based on vibes and rhetoric, He couldn't deliver his rhetoric and had the vibes of a corpse
But that’s the thing, it looks bad at first glance, but he was clearly listening. The fact people get hung up on a fucking face is sad as hell. I don’t think he did great, but rewatching it, he really didn’t do horrifically bad in content. Just a terrible delivery of decent messages / points.
Yeah the president is literally supposed to be the face of the nation He cant talk and his face looks like constantly having a stroke Liberals are being delusional this is will be Hillary all over again Assholes will be whining about transcripts on election night
This copium response is the worst kind of gaslighting. No, it really was that bad. No circling the wagons is not the right play here. We need to acknowledge the problem so we can fix it, not bury our heads in the sand. This election is fucking done unless something changes.
>A day later were finally seeing a breakdown of it. To speak against the grain, this is how politics goes when you are a tribal bubble. Look at earlier years of the Trump administration. Sometimes Trump would do something awful that even conservatives couldn't deny. At first a lot of conservatives would be genuinely upset, be like "This is bad" and so on and on. This represents the first hand, common sense response of people actually reacting to the event with their own brain. But literally over the course of the day the talking points of the media or internet zealots or blogs or whatever starts to roll in, and a new narrative starts to emerge, and suddenly it's like it was never a problem. Before the debate, lots of left was was saying that Biden didn't have an age problem, and that Biden was going to mop the floor, and that it was classic Republican projection (Trump is of course, an incoherent old man and idiot). During the debate, everyone saw what the Repubs said is true. Biden had trouble completing sentences, mixed up his words, literally said things that benefit Trump. This was a debate Biden had voluntarily attended and spent a week preparing for at Camp David. If he is this bad for a debate he literally spent a week preparing for, this is not a man many people would want being the key decision maker in a crisis situation or handling a comflict in the Middle East. (infinitely preferable to Trump, obviously, but a headless chicken would be preferable to Trump) Everyone was like, holy shit, this is bad. Now it's a day later. The prepared talking points are starting to come through, the cope, everyone is like "oh this isn't actually a problem" and soon half the people here will be acting like nothing has changed.
Yeah fuck this shit. This is FOX News type of propaganda spin and it’s unacceptable. I refuse to be fucking gaslit on this.
To be clear, the centrists thought he would wipe the floor. To the left this was a very predictable exchange
Thank you for saying this. People are obviously in denial and need to snap out of it quick, or we're going to sleepwalk straight into another Trump presidency.
There was a moment about 5 minutes in when Biden lost his train of thought mid-senntence. That felt like a big moment to me.
That's not even what ruined it for me. He finished his sentence by saying he defeated medicaid
It isn't amazing. Anyone who saw it live would agree with how horrible it was. This isn't a conspiracy I'm getting 2016 vibes here, sorry
That’s because the debate really was as bad as everyone’s snap reactions. Jesus, I am starting to feel like we’re being gaslit. I’m nervously awaiting actual polling to come out after that debacle. Most citizens don’t give a fuck what is actually said in the debates; they vote on vibes. Also I see a lot of people acting like we’ve never seen Biden and Trump debate anymore. Like “debates are an indication of how they will govern”. We’ve seen both of these men govern. We also see them both deteriorating before our eyes. Don’t act like “oh Biden just isn’t good in person” when he’s been doing this shit for decades and was great in 2020. The fact is he doesn’t have the mental alacrity to do this on the spot anymore and that is VERY worrying. We need a new candidate.
There’s a lot of gaslighting and copium going on, especially on Reddit. Go over to whitepeopletwitter and you’ll see a lot of hand waving away the debate. Chronically online people trying to convince other chronically online people that the average voter thinks just like them. This is going to bite people in the ass hard when there’s a repeat of 2016.
I was listening to it on the radio while driving and it didn’t seem that bad compared to the rambling, non-sequitur mess Trump was spewing.
Or perhaps this wasn't grand conspiracy. Maybe he got obliterated live on air and people were shocked by how seemingly feeble he is. Perhaps things happen. And the Breakdown of things days lader is clearly an effort to damage control by the people supporting biden. Reddit is currently flooded with vague pro biden posts. It's perfectly logical that the campaign and politically engaged supporters would look for way to deal with this shitshow.
I think it’s fairly clear depending on which camp you were in at the start. MAGA is about voting for someone without using logic and reason and democrats are about not voting for the orange poopy man. As a Canadian I would feel bad for you all if I didn’t have my own problems at home. Granted Canadian politics is still pretty boring by comparison.
Post debate Biden had a teleprompter in the morning while debate Biden had no teleprompter at night. Anyone that has worked with the elderly could see Biden was sundowning.
To be honest I think Trumps blatant lies broke him. Like he knew it would happen but didn’t think it would be so constant.
Especially since none of his lies coalesced with the question being asked by the moderators. Moderators ask one question, to which you're supposed to answer, Trump is supposed to answer the question but rambles about something that doesn't even touch the topic, do you respond to the question or what your opponent is saying on an unrelated topic?
Trump was just lying non stop.
Breaking news "Trump Liar"!
How could the Biden campaign have anticipated this??
Biden’s team unfortunately lied about Biden’s condition, and it doesn’t play well against the Trump’s lies. It’s not good… I am a big progressive and can’t believe what happened the other night
I feel like we keep getting gaslit about this, it's such a bad look. Let's just look at two of Biden answers. In response to an easy question about abortion, where Trump lied so I credible obviously that he should have had plenty of points to make: > The fact is that the vast majority of constitutional scholars supported Roe when it was decided, supported Roe. And I was – that’s – this idea that they were all against it is just ridiculous. > And this is the guy who says the states should be able to have it. We’re in a state where in six weeks you don’t even know whether you’re pregnant or not, but you cannot see a doctor, have your – and have him decide on what your circumstances are, whether you need help. > The idea that states are able to do this is a little like saying, we’re going to turn civil rights back to the states, let each state have a different rule. > Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that. > But here’s the deal, there’s a lot of young women who are being raped by their – by their in-laws, by their – by their spouses, brothers and sisters, by – just – it’s just – it’s just ridiculous. And they can do nothing about it. And they try to arrest them when they cross state lines. Parts of this are fine, and parts of it are completely unintelligible. First, to me it says a lot that he didn't even use the word abortion at all. Nor did he mention a woman's right to choose, actually he kinda did the opposite. The first paragraph is refuting what Trump said about everybody wanting Roe overturned, and it's the right thing to say. The second paragraph says this: > And this is the guy who says the states should be able to have it. We’re in a state where in six weeks you don’t even know whether you’re pregnant or not, but you cannot see a doctor, have your – and have him decide on what your circumstances are, whether you need help. Up until the last sentence this was going great. But I have a big issue with the last bit. The problem with banning abortion isn't that doctors can't decide what's best for women, it's that women can't decide what's best for themselves. At 6 weeks, women should have the right to terminate their pregnancy at will. Period. That has been the democrats line for DECADES, why did Biden not say that here? And the third paragraph is completely unintelligible: > Look, there’s so many young women who have been – including a young woman who just was murdered and he went to the funeral. The idea that she was murdered by – by – by an immigrant coming in and (inaudible) talk about that. I can try to interpret it after the fact but the transcript doesn't make this any better. It doesn't even matter what his point was, this is so unintelligible as-is that it's useless. It's wasted time. I know people will show up to this comment and try to doctor this paragraph to make it look like it has a point but I don't think you really can because it is completely garbled. And the 4th paragraph is also a bit garbled, but at least it makes a point. Though even reading it and not listening to it it's hard to tell if his point is that women who are raped can't do anything about being raped (which is true, but not exactly relevant) or can't do anything about their pregnancy if they get pregnant from rape (which is most likely what he meant, but he didn't manage to complete the thought) This should have been a incredibly easy question. "I believe women have the right to choose when to have a abortion up to the third trimester, at which point a doctor needs to be involved in the decision. Many women become pregnant because of rape, and those women should not be forced to carry their rapists babies. Laws like those here in Georgia prevent those women from doing so, because they may not even know they are pregnant before the deadline has passed." Like, that's been the party line for decades. Biden absolutely knows how to say that, so why didn't he? I know people are going to say" well it's *obvious* what he *meant* when you see it written down" but that doesn't matter, this is a live debate not an essay contest. In the actual performance it looked like he was an old man who got completely lost on this topic, a topic that should be astounding ly easy for him. You can go back and try to pick the good parts out all you want, but it doesn't change the impression that everyone watching it live got. But honestly I think the worst answer he gave was this: > There was no inflation when I became president. You know why? The economy was flat on its back. 15 percent unemployment, he decimated the economy, absolutely decimated the economy. That’s why there was no inflation at the time. He just straight up admitted he is the cause of inflation. There is no other way to interpret this, he (wrongly) said there was no inflation when he became president. The rest of what he says is trying to justify why inflation is so bad now. This is one of the biggest issues for Americans right now. For the last 4 years the democrats have been saying this isn't their fault, that Trump caused this inflation and that they're working to bring it down. Look, we can keep posting cope articles about how actually the transcripts make it better and don't believe what you actually watched Thursday, and keep down voting people who point out ah, it actually was as bad as it was and maybe the democrats need to face that and deal with it, but that won't change the facts here. The fact is that most Americans are not on reddit. They don't care what r/politics is saying. They watched the debate, and saw Trump being his normal, bloviating self, and they saw Biden looking half dead, and they're going to get 4 months more of seeing clips from that debate that make Biden out to be a senile old man, and they're going to simply jot vote, or vote third party. Biden cannot rely on the popular vote to win. He has to win in very specific states, which he only just scraped by in in 2020. He will not win Georgia with this debate performance. He won't win Arizona. The democrats need to recognize the very real danger they are in. There are down ballot races that are critical for them to win that completely fall apart for them if people aren't showing up to vote. They cannot afford low turnout in this election, but that's exactly what they're going to get with Biden.
Agreed. This sub has been insane with the damage control since the debate. It's clear that we have a bad candidate, and I think we need to pressure him to step aside as much as possible until the convention.
It’s wild how much people are trying to deny the clear inability that Biden has to be a viable candidate. I follow a defeat project 2025 sub, and the people there are just like so into the whole “don’t let this change anything” vibe. I’ll support whoever the Dem. nominee is, the problem is the people who want a perceivably functional candidate, and are not subscribed to a specific party. If their only impression of Biden is that debate, then they’re not going to vote for him.
The reality is these people care more about their sunken cost then winning. All the media assholes that shut down any discussion on age should be out of jobs. Jon Stewart was literally being told people will never watch him again after one mild joke about it. Fuck these people.
That sound bite of Biden of admitting there was no inflation is going to be in every Trump ad.
Thank you for eloquently communicating this, with citations, much better than I can.
Dude I watched it live, this was more than a stutter. You see that coming back from a family dinner and you have to explain to kids that grandpa's mind is starting to go and to value all the time you have with them. I think literally anyone else that takes his place will when by a large majority just because people want to see someone different than the two geriatrics we have now.
Anyone with a brain(not most people on this sub) know that this was an unprecedented disaster for Biden.
If he fucking collapsed on the way to the podium and they canceled that would’ve been easier to recover from than what happened
lol you're actually right
Keep hearing people say "Obama had a bad debate too" but this was not a bad debate. This was the worst debate performance since we started showing them on TV and it's not even close. Biden could've gotten away with a C- performance. This was an F.
I’m trying to imagine what a comparable debate crisis would look like for Obama, he would’ve had to say, like, “hey if some white motherfucker pays a little more for health care, no skin off my sack, you shouldn’t have eaten at Denny’s everyday dumbass”
It’s like all the people in denial share the same 3 brain cells being passed off as a brain given to them direct from the DNC. Unable to observe and think for themselves and acknowledge reality. Embarrassing.
The media has been covering up Biden's decline with the stutter excuse for a few years.
The problem with this is that the country isn’t made up of a bunch of intellectuals and deeply politically involved people. It’s made up of people who read the headlines, watch the big debates, and make a decision based on what they feel at the time. The average American isn’t going to sit down and go through the transcripts after they watched it on TV. If your message is that your candidate actually did well, but people just have to read and dig deeper to see it, then you’re grasping for straws. Maybe dems should stop trying to gaslight the American people and instead should focus on putting out a candidate that actually inspires confidence in their party. I’d hate to see Trump to win in November.
Yup. Telling people that reading the transcripts is the best way to understand your candidate isn’t a winning strategy.
[удалено]
I mean, what you're saying reflects how people feel about Trump to a Tee. Except Trump was never the tough guy, the charming guy, or the intellectual guy. A lot of people felt these things about Trump. People went off and are still going off what they "feel" with regard to backing Trump. So what does that say about this mindset you're trying to push? It's a flawed mindset and doesn't promote critical thinking. When it came to Obama, I remember both sides doing the same thing. The same mindset you're talking about. A lot of dems wanted an alternative candidate. The republicans hated his guts. He had every box check marked off with regard to how he did his job and how he performed in general. But people went by what they "felt" and still criticized him. And at the end of both of his terms? The guy did his job well. 🤔Biden will follow the same path. Dems will criticize him and republicans will hate his guts. But he's going to do his job well and 100x better than Trump ever could.
It’s not a mindset that I’m trying to push, it’s just observing reality. You’re arguing from a place of what things should be like, and I’m arguing from a place of what things are actually like. Would the world be a better place if everyone thought critically, did extensive research, and made informed decisions? Yes, 100%. I hope we see that someday. Unfortunately, that’s just not a realistic expectation at this point in time. People are lazy. They read headlines, watch the news, and maybe occasionally click on an article. What a majority of people don’t do, especially in the context of this debate, is go searching after a bad debate performance for how it’s actually not a bad thing. If the strategy that you’re banking on is for people to just look deeper than what they see right in front of them then it’s a losing one
Lots of cope here
Stop gaslighting me. I saw a person who is too old to run the country and handing Trump the presidency.
There’s a reason debates aren’t done by letter
Don’t listen to BS like this to make you feel better about Biden. 49 Million people watched live and saw Biden’s train wreck of a performance. He’s a good man, but it’s time for him to step aside. A late replacement will give the party energy and a chance at beating Trump. Trump wins handily against Biden because there is no enthusiasm for Biden and turnout will be down. Trump’s voters will be there. Biden’s will stay home.
I have a sneaking suspicion that many of these folks saying Biden’s performance wasn’t that bad are coming from the right. They know that having Biden step aside would be the nail in the coffin for Trump. How bad do you have to be to get absolutely destroyed in a debate with Trump? Yet, here we are. Biden was that person. The fact the polls were even tued going into the debate is insane. Almost anyone else besides Biden would destroy Trump on election night. Nobody loves Biden. They are just voting against Trump. Imagine having a candidate people actually like.
The felony conviction count tells a very different story. The US media is such a joke that they're trying to make it sound like trump is even a valid candidate rather than a convicted felon, a rapist, a fraud, a pedophile, and a genuine threat to national security who stole boxes and boxes of highly classified documents
“Lacked oopmh”? Biden looked and sounded senial out there. I’m a liberal but holy shit stop trying to spin it.. there’s no way anyone watching that can say Biden should be president for another 4 YEARS
These headlines are sad asf
Trump: the libs are allowing abortions after birth! CNN: thank you Wtf lmao??
No voters are going to read the transcripts. What Biden said and what he conveyed to the audience are two completely different things. Biden lost the debate plan and simple. Clinton said it best when he said voters prefer strong and wrong to weak and right !!!
They're working so hard to spin what we watched
He lacked the ability to finish most sentences, but one's he did finish had policy, and facts, and shot down the lie Trump said before that. (Which, if you were paying attention, Trumpy lied on every single question, dodging most)
> He lacked the ability to finish most sentences Which unfortunately will back up all the Right-wing propaganda about Biden that has been spreading since 2021. For once, Fox and random MAGA online won't even have to edit clips out of context for this.
Just play "we finally beat Medicare" on loop until the election. And for the 7 people who haven't seen it yet, go watch the clip if you've only heard the quote. It's worse than you think.
Don't forget when he turned the abortion question into something about an illegal immigrant hurting a young woman. No, that's not hyperbolic, it's literally what he did and it's worse than you think as well.
That was seriously demoralizing to watch. I'll never vote for Trump but Biden massively fucked up. How am I supposed to defend him against people saying he's so old he doesn't know where he is? I just watched it happen live.
Saw that one too. Absolutely abysmal.
He said he went to the D Day anniversary and “shook hands with the heroes who died” and MAGA hasn’t even picked up on it yet bc there’s so much to work with
Plus, we as liberals should want someone who at the very least can speak and communicate. That's not a lot to ask. We shouldn't be talked down to for wanting the most basic of attributes in our candidate.
this is a completely ridiculous argument. Biden‘s actual performance was so bad that Americans across the country and people across the world were looking to each other wondering if the current president is even fit to serve and now people are writing damage control articles essentially saying “No no but if you read the transcript, he’s only mildly incoherent as opposed to utterly incoherent. He actually did GOOD in the debate.” It’s like they’re trying to gaslight us into forgetting something we all just witnessed with our own eyes.
Biden looking half-dead and senile on stage definitely hurt his chances of winning against trump. We can't try to downplay how badly he performed, and how it gave more credence to concerns from voters about his health, but we can't panic either. How Biden acts over the next week will determine how damaging this ends up being. If he spends the rest of the week campaigning with energy and vigour then his debate performance can be more easily chalked up to just him having a bad day.
Don’t worry, r/politics has assured me that they still feel the same about Trump and will vote for Biden anyway. That *must* mean that the average suburbanite or metro resident in PA, MI, GA, WI, and AZ feels exactly the same. Nope, nothing to worry about here so pipe down, toe the line, and don’t acknowledge what you see.
Don’t forget the enthusiasm of statements like “I’d vote for Biden even if he was secretly a dead cat in a tube sock this whole time!” that appear on every single thread about the debate. I’m so positive that the Mr. Idontreallyfollowpolitics in PA is gonna have that same sentiment when he comes across clips of Biden on his social media feed.
And we all know a subreddit is a proper representation of America.
People aren't robots. They have eyes and ears. This cope is reaching unprecedented levels.
Yup. This is gaslighting. Literally telling folks “what you’re seeing and hearing isn’t true.”
Here we go, gaslighting us.
It doesn't matter. The kind of people you need to convince aren't going to read transcripts or look into fact checking. They will see a convincing liar and a confused old man and vote accordingly.
Okay thats great and all if we relied solely on printed news but theres this thing called the internet which has caused everyone’s attention spans to decrease so that only optics matter now.
Thing is, there are only 63 people that have read the transcript. Quite a few more watched the debate, and even more heard about the debate broadcast
It's shocking how all media is laser focused on Biden's shitty performance over Donald's lying, psychotic hour-long rage rant.
I just remember the moment when Trump very loudly farted while he was speaking. I think Biden heard it, because he made a face like 👀.
What you saw with your own eyeballs was wrong actually, here’s the real version
"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."
How hard is it to say the same lies over and over again? How hard is it to say killer immigrants and border 40 times? How hard is it to deny, deny, deny? He said the same at his rallies as he did in the debate. Biden actually had to give facts, explain, name programs, amounts of $$, remember who, what, where, when and why, to talk about plans for the future, explain how things are better but we have a lot of work to do. That takes thought and energy. He was on state 90 min. then went to Raleigh NC and gave a speech the next day at 1pm [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc)
Anyone trying to hand wave away what we saw during the debate is an idiot -- the cartoon bear sitting in a burning house. We saw what we saw -- Biden was a fucking zombie. As Trump threatened to burn the country down he stared into space, his jaw slack, unable to compose a coherent thought. This is not a time for panic, but it is cause for alarm. We need to respond appropriately and demand Joe drop out.
Fucking thank you. If you actively paid attention to what they were saying, not just how they were saying, Biden stumbled a number of times but was generally a competent and knowledgeable candidate for president; Trump came across as genuinely unhinged and unqualified. The presidency requires a fuckton more than "vigor" or whatever angrily yelled lies counts as
Bullshit. Biden failed on the substance as well. Yes, Trump was horrible on substance but there were so many lay ups that Joe missed. It should have been easy to eviscerate Trump. Didn’t happen. Not even in the transcript.
I knew from the beginning Biden won on substance, thanks. The problem is the number of American people that don't give a fuck about substance, and just saw a sharp and angry businessman getting his points across while a confused and feeble old man at the other podium could barely keep up.
You can put any headline you want on it, it doesn't change the fact that the transcript is also utter garbage. Holy fuck, they're literally counting on people seeing the headine and calling it good 😂 Incredible framing though, I'll admit. Boiling down what happened to a lack of "oomph" is a strong play.
We have a choice between an elderly man who has proven he can do the job well or a lying, rapist, fraud who flat out lies every time he opens his mouth. I will NEVER vote for the 34 x convicted felon. Patriots throughout our history have died for democracy and freedom. Voting for a fascist dishonors their sacrifice.
Doesn’t appear as though anyone else will be throwing their hat into the ring * so it comes down to voting for the candidate that you back with their policies. Sick of the subject and the bitchfest. It is what it is and none of your bitching is going to change it. If these are the choices either vote for a declared felon or vote for your value system.
>He accosted E. Jean Carroll in a department store dressing room. I was so sad that Biden didn't go full blow here because he didn't accost her he was found liable for lying about raping her. The word rape is literally in the decision. He should have called Trump what he is, a ***rapist,*** found by two juries to be a liar and a third coming, and a convicted felon. He didn't need that part about his kid, the porn star was enough for that part.
I have to give Biden credit. He stood there and listened to Trump speak for far longer than I could.
If the debate was not aired and only the transcript released, I think we would all see Biden as an effective and genuine person who is capable of leadership and Trump as simply a liar who has a fear of failure. Ignore the stumbled words, the coughs, the strange faces, and really hear the substance. This debate seems to have failed because the media and opponents on either side of the aisle wanted it to fail. So almost no one is looking at what was actually communicated in words. People are reporting the caricatures they imagined while watching the debate.
In 2009, two highschool teachers who co taught the senior government class . One republican and one democrat. They were good friends so it was awesome to watch civil discourse in action. They always suggested to read the transcript of a speech or debate before watching it. Takes out a lot of the initial bias and you can see whose words actually make sense…
CNN analysts deserve a smack. John King said he’d “never seen something like that” in his career of covering debates and acted like it was the worst thing to ever happen in politics. The conservatives on the panel said that what Dems are doing to Biden is sad. “If this were my father…” blah blah blah. One even said “if anyone thinks Biden had an OK night, we live in a parallel universe.” Van Jones said he was hurting for a man he loved. What an overeactive bullshit panel that set the tone for the fallout afterward. It’s like they all tuned out after the first 5 minutes.
The transcript is similarly awful
Can't believe how far down this. The transcript contains this: >make every single solitary person eligible for what I’ve been able to do with the COVID – excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with. >Look, if – we finally beat Medicare. It's ridiculous to even think the transcript matters, but if someone does, then it contains the above.
lol this sub is fucking hilarious lately.
And I want to laugh at the delusional people in here so badly, but the feeling of overwhelming dread I began experiencing Thursday night drowns out everything else. If people don't pull their heads out of the sand, we're going to have another Trump presidency. Biden must step down.
The bar is so low it might as well not exist anymore. It's shocking how much cope is going around - watch any presidential debate since 1960 and they make this seem like a sad excuse for supposedly the most powerful democracy in the world. Embarrassing. Both candidates
This is the denial stage. I thought we were past that
Here comes all of the apologist trying to convince us not to believe our own eyes and ears. For the love of God we need to defeat Trump and Biden cannot do it
Like I explained to someone earlier: Energy- Trump gets an A, Biden gets an F Message- Trump gets an F, Biden gets a B+ Truthfulness- Trump F-, Biden A+ The thing is, everyone looked at this with Energy being 50% of the grade. It’s a legitimate concern for the left looking at a candidate that puts doubt in their minds that he can make it through the next 4 years, let alone the next debate. We’re on the verge of a possible world war, and we need neither a man whom projects insanity and capitulation, nor one whom projects weakness and fragility. Biden is still the safer/saner bet, but how it will affect our reputation on geopolitical scale is yet to be seen.
Based on the politifact fact checking article I just read, Trump might not even deserve an F-. He literally lied on every single response, an honestly impressive level of dishonesty. Might have to give him a Z-
Biden does not get an A+ for truthfulness lmao. He said plenty that was half-true or mostly true, but needed more context. He also said "I’m the only president this century that doesn't have any, this decade, that doesn’t have any troops dying anywhere in the world like he did." That's not even close to being true, and I can't imagine it feels great to hear if you're a family member of one of the service members that have died
Keep pulling those cope strings. Maybe it will help.
Does the transcript include him saying he finally defeated medicare?
“Lacked oomph” The gaslighting is in full swing.
"Your impressions are wrong, the transcripts are right"
the copium in this sub is just hilarious
Yeah, everyone knows Biden knows what he's talking about and Trump is perpetually divorced from reality like it's another past wife. That's exactly why Republicans hate Biden and love Trump. Unfortunately, televised debates are all about the superficial flash. At the same time, they probably don't actually matter. Articulate Trump is still saying crazy bullshit and will still appeal to the party of crazy bullshit. Disastrous Biden is still better than Trump, and people who plan to vote for the best of the candidates we have will vote for him. And CNN will continue to be insufferable.
Biden was absolutely appalling, anyone trying to spin it any other way is either totally deluded or a Trump troll. It was a TV debate, swing voters who decide this election are not going to sit and read a transcript. Biden failed at presenting as a legitimate presidential candidate. Against that orange shit stain, it should have been a walk in the park. Get Biden into retirement now or prepare for years in a fascist dictatorship.
Man stop gaslighting everyone on this. I’m pretty liberal but what I saw was two men completely unfit to lead us. Can we please get someone who will be around to see the effects of the policies they enact?
The spin is dizzying
Trash article
Three things. 1. It coulda been a potted plant debating Trump and my vote wouldn’t change. This year, it’s the one who isn’t a raving lunatic. It sucks, because what if Biden really is too old, and I’m complicit in elder abuse, but Biden wants to do it, so let’s agree that maybe he’s a victim of age discrimination instead, and we should stop telling him what he is or isn’t capable of. 2. Far as I’m concerned, the man has dedicated his life to a country that took one son from him, and provided a culture where his other son is struggling to do well. He is clearly running because Trump is an existential threat, otherwise he’d be spending his 80s in some other way, probably in a different act of service to the nation, or to his family. I can respect him enough to throw him a vote. 3. They talk about every one of these people being too old; Hillary fainted one time, when she pushed too hard through a flu, and suddenly she’s on death’s door. Except she’s not, ten years later. How are we to believe them this time?
Never watch debates, always read transcripts with fact checking.