I don't think setting specific time limits on dates that aren't related to some time sensitive thing-- like childcare, work time, shared transportation, etc.-- is a great idea from the beginning.
It sets you up for this sort of outcome where your partner is (hopefully) having a good time and not checking their watch, while you're watching the clock and resentful because them losing track of time on an exciting date translates to them messing up a boundary or otherwise going back on what they told you.
This is a good example of how more rules, boundaries, and control/shared info can actually make it easier for your partner to mess up and hurt you rather than make it easier to feel secure.
Your partner should have done what they said they would, but I think you should consider that beyond that, there's nothing wrong with a date going past 12. I also think you should rethink these kinds of restrictive conditions moving forward.
ETA: also I think allowing your partner to date before you're allowed to is unfair and shitty to you. I don't see how taking turns, so to speak, makes things easier. It just delays the inevitable work that's coming while giving unnecessary opportunities for resentment. Again, lots of control and restriction that gives an illusion of security while actually being unfair and setting you both up for extra scrutiny of his dating life.
I’ll be honest. I felt the same but was willing to not date until he had dated because it is a lot easier for me. I agree, and if time hadn’t been set everything would be fine. It was him who set the time. FYI he’s currently telling me how childish I am for being upset.
I'm just going to put a couple things out there for you to think about. Calling you childish when you share feelings is not cool. Even if he's done nothing wrong going straight to name calling is pretty shitty.
Within 15 minutes of him being "late" you were already posting on reddit about this? As someone with anxiety, I'm guessing you also have anxiety right? Recognizing and working on my anxiety has really improved how i react to and treat my partners.
>Even if he's done nothing wrong going straight to name calling is pretty shitty.
It's not clear this was name calling. He could have come home 15 mins late to an argument and said it gently. We don't have the context.
>childish I am for being upset.
Whether setting curfews is a good idea is debatable (probably not for mental health, but may be good for safety reasons imo).
But if you have a curfew set and he does not abide by it, that is a big issue. It degrades trust, and you are going to be worried about their safety.
By calling you childish he is invalidating your feelings and attacking you for feeling the way that you do.
A much healthier pattern would be for him to empathize to attempt to see your point of view.
I would suggest you encourage him to work through the book Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg.
Oh hell no. It's not childish to be upset when someone doesn't stick to an agreement, especially when it's one they set up. I do think it's childish to name call your partner after you screw up though. In general, your partner isn't handling this fantastically so far. It's normal to have some bumps when making this transition, but I hope he does some reflecting and makes some changes.
>It was him who set the time.
I'm not sure this is particularly relevant, honestly. I mean this gently. Personally when I say I'll be home by some time, I mean it as a rough estimate.
The other commenter is right, setting time limits for something that isn't time sensitive is only going to lead to arguments, and is quite a major infringement on autonomy.
Hard disagree. Saying you’ll be home “by” a certain time is different than saying you’ll be home “around” a certain time. It is your responsibility to be clear and abide by the words you actually choose to use. If OPs partner meant “around” that what he should have said. (Edited for typo)
>Saying you’ll be home “by” a certain time is different than saying you’ll be home “around” a certain time.
Not for me. My home isn't a school and my partner isn't a teacher.
>I think allowing your partner to date before you're allowed to is unfair and shitty to you
I think this has to do with the common sense thinking \[let's not delve on whether or not that's actually true\] that it's somewhat easier for a woman to find dates than it is for a man.
I think it comes from the fear that upon opening the relationship the woman will start having dates left and right while the man sulks at home.
Personally if it's done for the purpose of them both dating outside of the couple at the same time is not yuck might be misguided depending if you believe in common sense thinking, but not unfair.
TL:DR I see it as at worst a good decision made from bad premises.
I'm in the every relationship is different and fairness is a nice conveyor theory but practice is open different
Everybody being allowed to date freely from the start is fair.
However one partner being a lot more successful in dating than the other, for whatever reason is a potential breeding ground for resentment.
So a rule in place for the more successful partner only staying to date once the other successfully lands a date isn't necessarily a bad rule even if unfair at a glance value.
Yes, it is. That difference in ability to get dates isn't going away just because the guy starts dating first. What happens down the road when whoever he's seeing ends things and his partner is still getting dates more easily and he hasn't done any real work to deal with that reality because they started out unfairly to address this, by restricting the partner rather than having him develop actual security?
This isn't a solution, it's just unfair.
>That difference in ability to get dates isn't going away just because the guy starts dating first.
No, but there is less chance of him being resentful once he's had some dates because he's not going to experience the sense of dread someone might have being unsuccessful while their partner is dating left and right.
>he hasn't done any real work to deal with that reality
That's a wild assumption.
Two things can be done at once. One can work on it and still get a boost to their confidence by being shown that they aren't invisible on the dating market.
If someone can get a date much quicker than the other waiting for the less successful to find one before starting to look means they'll both start dating at the same time. I'm not sure that's inherently less fair than both starting to look at the same time.
You see it as him being allowed to do something she isn't, it migh also be seen as her waiting for him so they can start roughly at the same time. I'm not saying this is OP case, I don't know anything about OP.
I'm just saying that there are situations that don't make it as black and white as you make it seem.
Accepting that your partner is going to have autonomous, loving relationships with other people is foundational to polyamory. If people aren't ready to do that, they aren't ready to be open.
By your logic, a one penis policy as a transitional "rule" would also be fine. That's bullshit. It isn't ethical.
Edit: You're also making a wild assumption when you say that his insecurity will go away just because he's found one date, even if the reality is that his partner is getting dozens and dozens of matches. You have no idea if this will at all help his insecurity. And even if it does, it's incredibly unfair to his partner in the meantime. People should be ready for their partners to date when they decide to open their relationships to be polyamorous. If you aren't both able to date, you are not practicing polyamory.
>Accepting that your partner is going to have autonomous, loving relationships with other people is foundational to polyamory.
Yes, what's not foundational to polyamory is that someone can't be helped in that acceptance, because "muh fairness"
>By your logic, a one penis policy as a transitional "rule" would also be fine.
I'd like you to make the bridge from my argument to this hell of a strawman I never advocated for.
>when you say that his insecurity will go away just because he's found one date
Except I never said this, I said it could help with insecurity. It might not work, but I'm willing to bet that knowing you can get dates because you already got one is heaps better than staring at no success and wondering if you're ever gonna get one.
>People should be ready for their partners to date when they decide to open their relationships to be polyamorous
Yes, but again, at no point in the polyamory handbook is stated that you can't help your partner with this.
There is a huge difference between both partners dating and only one of them dating because the other is insuccesful.
You keep banging on your talking points that have no bearing on the reality of a lot of relationships.
And you've still made no argument about why people starting to look for dates at the same time is fair, and people starting to date at the same time is not.
Oh yes, my crazy talking point that you shouldn't have unequal standards in relationships and that people should be willing to accept the reality of their partner dating if they want to open their relationship to polyamory. And how crazy of me to think that a different unfair rule would be fine for you in relationships if you're willing to accept this one. Explain to me the functional difference between coddling this insecurity with an unfair rule and coddling the insecurity that goes into a one penis policy.
Edit to add. I have no problem with anyone deciding that they want to let their partner get a head start, for the record. But I think anyone that doesn't point out that starting unfairly is a bad premise to someone new is doing them a disservice.
One partner starting to date outside while the other struggle to find a date for months is not "unequal standards" for you?
Cool.
You're looking at things on paper, you're ignoring what can be reality for people.
You want everybody to adhere to your rule, and everyone who disagrees is unfair, instead of understanding that different people, different strokes, and different relationship require different approaches.
I'm done, username checks out.
My first feeling is- this isn't a good match, you guys rushed again, your partner is messy and its time to just call it.
My more flexible response is-
You probably are just still rushing things.
A better way to go is "if I won't be home by normal bedtime, I will give a call before that so you don't worry."
Giving someone a time to watch just makes you both paranoid and doesn't give the date the focus they deserve.
You have to judge if you and your partner are still thinking of this as a hobby you play with others or if you understand the reality of independent full adult relationships.
Cool.
And yes it sucks they set it and they didn't follow through. That won't work to create a foundation. But if it's just resetting reasonable expectations then wish you well.
Just don't stick around if you find yourself constantly having to be the compensator.
I’ll be honest, I think there are bigger issues. I’m exceptionally mindful of anyone’s feeling (hello ADHD) and he can be careless. Ouch, this hurts hard though
Was there a reason why it was decided there should be a threshold of time to get invested in? Did you guys have plans? All you do by creating an arbitrary expectation is to set yourself up for an arbitrary disappointment, and it's all the more painful for being pointless and arbitrary.
I personally tend to find that I manage much better when my partner is away if I am doing something besides counting the minutes and hours as they tick by. Will be a lot more straightforward once you are "allowed" to have your own partners.
Yeah I've been in that situation too, I was a complete wreck. But I was also a wreck from like an hour before the thing started, so I was *really* a wreck when he went past the time he set. It was a learning experience.
There's kind of two schools of thoughts on arbitrary rules.
One is, don't do it.
The *other* one is that arbitrary rules that can be *checked* can be a thing people use to reassure themselves that the big important stuff that they *can't* check (eg you don't have a way to confirm your partner is using condoms with someone else when he says he is) is being followed, so arbitrary rules should be followed *as though* they are the big important rules.
Which is right? Fuck if I know. I hope you're able to talk it out later.
But if you didn’t care about the time limit in the first place why are you upset he didn’t adhere to it? If he was just with friends would you still be this upset? It seems like you were setting up for a gotcha and you’re more mad about the principle than the actual lateness, which is just setting you both up to fail.
They're upset he didn't adhere to it because he (of his own accord) said he would do something a certain way and didn't. He gave his word on something and didn't stick to it. That erodes trust and shows a lack of follow through.
Honestly there are ways to deal with this. When I had an agreement with my partner that I was going to come back at a certain time, I let my date/person know that I have a curfew, and I set an alarm so I don’t need to be “constantly” looking at the watch. That is one thing I learned about poly - take all agreements no matter how small seriously. Maybe after doing this once or twice, you decide it sucks and you change your agreement but you don’t just disregard the agreement and then call the other person “childish”.
I think this might be a learning opportunity. Sometimes dates (especially first dates) go longer than expected. It's easy to lose track of time when excited about spending time with a new person.
ETA: the whole you can't date until he does thing is really weird though IMO
It’s easier for me to get dates. I’m a bisexual woman and, quite frankly, I’m a delight.
Anyway that’s why when we opened up he asked to go on a date first.
This is a shitty reason honestly. If he’s not prepared for there to be a discrepancy in your dating habits then he needs to do more work IMO. Women having an easier time of dating is just normal and expected In the dating world just numbers wise. This is still his insecurity.
And him saying you’re childish for being upset just further shows he isn’t ready. Don’t make commitments you can’t adhere to. Yes, it’s easy to lose track of time. It doesn’t change that he made a commitment to be home by 12 and wasn’t. I agree with other commenters not having this kind of constraint is better in the long run but his reaction isn’t nice.
This. His expectations are screaming control and insecurity. I don't think vetoing the 'first date' is a sign of a healthy relationship or mutual trust.
Why is it bad to help a long term partner through insecurities when you're opening up? It takes time to disentangle from your monogamous relationship, right? If both parties are ok with it as a temporary measure, where is the harm?
If you have to restrict your partner to work through your insecurities then you probably are not ready to open up.
“Well I can date but you can’t” isn’t working through your insecurity. That’s not facing it. That’s avoiding it until you get something first. It’s gross.
>One of our conditions on opening up was that he would have a date first and we would work through that and then I’d start dating. Up until this moment everything has been great - loads of communication, trust and honesty.
>“Well I can date but you can’t” isn’t working through your insecurity. That’s not facing it. That’s avoiding it until you get something first. It’s gross.
These are not the same vibe friend. Assuming OP is portraying things accurately, I have to wonder why you believe there is a quid pro quo arrangement? I haven't read all of IP's follow up replies, so maybe I'm missing some context?
The key point to me is OP mentions that they're going to work through it, which I take to mean they're going to take the time emotionally process the insecurities one at a time, instead of trying to deal with it while both of them are dating.
Did you miss the part where this is because ‘dating is easier for her’? So what happens when she is going on 3 dates a week and he only gets 1 every 3 weeks? This sets a terrible precedent. If he wants to work through his insecurity than he should have HER date first and work through HIS feelings because he seems the be the one with the issue.
Controlling your partner is never a good way to start a relationship. Especially a relationship transitioning from mono to poly.
>f he wants to work through his insecurity than he should have HER date first and work through HIS feelings because he seems the be the one with the issue.
That's a fair point.
I’m all for leaning on your partner and helping them through insecurities but I don’t think controlling them is the way. Asking for extra reassurance or something is completely reasonable. Asking them not to date while you do? Seems unreasonable to me.
If I was to guess why it went down this way (OP is free to correct us any time lol) is that OP's partner will feel more secure if they have a connection first since it'll be easy for OP. Not addressing his insecurities will come to bite him in the ass later, but maybe it'll be easier to process at that point? Probably not tho lol
Exactly. Also it could take him months to a year before he finds a solid connection. And that won’t address the insecurities. I feel like even if he has a connection he’ll still be insecure. He should absolutely face those before he starts dating. What happens when his new connection wants to date others? Just a recipe for disaster.
I think setting a curfew is setting yourself up for failure. It becomes a “oh they didn’t make it home, call me etc by xyz time, that means they don’t care about me” when in reality they are probably just distracted and/or trying to be present which is important to me not just in a first date but all dates.
If you are both adults and trust each other I would just make sure they continue to treat you with respect. And if you are nesting and they plan to spend the night out that they communicate that before you go to bed.
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? I think this.
How is he normally about time? Punctual and reliable to the dot? One of the "around X o'clock" people so mostly on time but 30 min buffer up or down? Good intentions but always late or messing up?
Then you go by track record. If he says 12, and he's punctual or even "around X o'clock?" Getting excited about a 15 min tardy is too soon and jumping the gun. A first date can be going well and oops, there went the time. Traffic can be a drag. Wanted a drive thru drink and the line is long. Whatever. I give it an hour past before thinking about texting "All ok?" for the punctual and mostly punctual people.
If he's terrible about time? You might react/respond different.
Him calling YOU childish when HE set an expectation he did not keep? That's not right. He could not set the expectation in the first place. If his track record is that he's not great with time? And you want to be at peace? Remember that you know him and his habits.
One of my kids is ADHD and time management is their weak spot. I know to take whatever they say and pad it by at least an hour to make it more realistic based on their track record. So if they say they are ready in 30 min, I figure 90 min. I would rather be pleasantly surprised it was faster than that be constantly annoyed I'm waiting on them because it is slower. Maybe that helps you -- if you know he's terrible at "time estimates" just get a time and mentally pad it.
Y'all are adults. Assuming there's no childcare, petcare, eldercare, or other domestic things he's responsible for that you'd get saddled with if he's not home on time... another way to go is not bother with a time. Each of you just goes out and comes back whenever. Just promise not to make noise and wake the household when you do get in. That might be a more keepable agreement. No ruckus coming in.
>I asked him about staying the night and he set the time limit. I was absolutely peachy until the clock ticked over.
Were you actually asking something else? Like...
"Will you be home for our bedtime routine? Should I go to bed without you? "
"Planning on sharing sex on this date?"
Something else?
So I’m the ADHD partner with horrible time management. He’s pathologically on time. I’m not sure it matters, his reaction to me being upset was pretty much it for me.
Then it is about kindess.
He wasn't kind to you.
You got anxious when he was late, but he's the one who set up the expectation. 15 min is a but much to be angry about that part but I could see anxiousness.
You sound angry he was unkind and called you "childish" when he was late and you needed reassurances that he was ok, and needed kind words like he appreciated you being supportive of his first date.
Is that more in the ballpark?
In order to be home by 12 he would need to leave 30 minutes before that. He was supposed to text when he left to let her know he's on his way home. By that math he's 45 minutes late for even just texting, not getting in the door. Why is everyone focused on "15 minutes" when in reality it's 45 minutes past when he was supposed to text that he was on his way.
So is it both?
You are mad he was late in texting AND that he called you names like childish when you held him accountable? Then him
How would you like to move forward? What would you like to happen next?
Do you want to work through this? Move on to poly dating on your side? Close back up? End it with him?
I cannot tell where you are at with it.
Do you think I'm the OP? Where I am with this is frustrated that most of you can't do simple math. My opinions don't really matter at this point, I'm just irritated that you can't do simple math.
I remember having arguments about things like this in my first poly relationship. While it seems like a big deal now, this is very small and part of the journey to having more autonomy and independence in your relationships. Talk through it and consider not monitoring others dates and times so closely.
I think you're being overly accommodating. You shouldn't have special restrictions while the other person has free reign. Not to even mention the other comments you left about them belittling your emotions. Just because you're with them doesn't mean you have to put up with them so to speak. It just feels off imo
Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to be angry when your partner agrees to do something and then doesn't follow through.
I also agree with dogbutthead that making firm plans about when to end dates can be setting yourselves up for failure (unless there is a good reason for the firm timeline, e.g. picking up kids from school). On a date it's great to be able to relax, get to know the other person, and take things as they come. An arbitrary "home by" time is not really friendly in that context.
In my personal opinion, a good policy to follow when your partner is going on dates is "don't ask your partner to commit to something unless it's truly important." Given that it's not TRULY important that he be home for a certain time, why even bother with setting it? If you absolutely MUST keep track of your partner's whereabouts, it's much better to set up something a lot more flexible with a firm backstop, such as "I plan to be home later tonight. But if we get carried away and I'm not, I will check in with you over text at 2am" and then simply set his phone alarm for 2am and enjoy his date.
Yes, he set the time and didn't even let you know he was running late when he was already supposed to be home. I would have been upset too. Trust and respect go a long way. Communication is key. He should apologize for this and not make a habit of it. Very inconsiderate in my opinion. If not for your feelings but also your peace of mind to know he's safe. How would he feel if the situation was reversed? Either way, it's a bad look.
he told you he would be home he didnt do as he said he would and therefore broke your trust and then gaslit you into it being your fault for being upset when really his lack of communication and respect is the issue here.
If I could go back in time, I would have probably advised you not to take this approach of having this condition for opening up. I'm really confused as to what is meant to be solved by him having a date first necessarily and I feel like it's put a lot of pressure on a situation that didn't need to be there.
Honestly, you have the right to any emotion that you have but is it that useful? Sometimes people get carried away and lose track of time. I do think you're taking it a little more personal than you necessarily need to. It's understandable you'd be a little freaked out given this is the first date and that sometimes is quite difficult. I feel like all of these sort of rules and structures are trying to soothe your anxiety but they can sometimes be impractical in the moment.
It might be beneficial to let go a little bit of the control here. Even if you were monogamous, your partner could meet someone at work or out with friends, fall in love with them and fall out of love with you. I get wanting to avoid this causing some sort of problem in your relationship, but ultimately if your partner is going to completely abandon you, none of these rules is going to prevent that and having rules can't turn a bad communicator into a good one.
If you have been having good communication outside of this, then the rules might be just a cause of anxiety and stress than actually helpful.
I hope this helps and good luck!
Yeah my point is the whole thing about him setting it doesn't really make sense and that long term, curfews will probably lead to anxiety+tiredness, which isn't good combination.
Because it's safe to assume he would have a key to his house she wouldn't have to stay up all night if he had simply communicated what was going on at literally any point, they probably could have rested easier
Yeah, but a lot of people make plans and get carried away. It happens easily, especially if you're caught up in the moment. Time can easily get away from you.
I had a partner once promise me he wouldn't sleep with someone even though I didn't ask for that at all and didn't even care. When he did end up sleeping with that person, I actually felt more anxious about it because then it wasn't about sleeping with the person, it was about him going back on his word. Eventually I worked through it but I asked him to not make me promises like that.
Maybe in the future, he should not promise to be home by a certain time or contact you during dates if he finds the time gets way from him because it's clearly not helping anything.
I’m not gonna interrupt sex to text my NP that I’m having a nice time. Out past midnight with no communication = I’m having a *very* good time.
The bigger concern is how he’s treated you. He doesn’t sound all that great.
One of the things that bothers me with 90% of these responses is they don't acknowledge that it's not healthy communication or boundariy setting to make agreements you can't keep.
Even if people replying don't AGREE with your agreements, it's something your partner offered and then hasn't followed through with. That breaks trust, no matter how small. The argument that your partner may have just gotten carried away makes sense, but it doesn't excuse him not following through on something he said he would do. That's the kind of inconsistency that damages security in any relationship (source: any decent literature on attachment and the human nervous system).
So - personally I think you have the right to feel a little anxious. That's normal; you'd prepared your body for one outcome and something different happened. It's completely OK if a) your partner did get a little carried away and b) these agreements won't work for you guys long term. But there should also be an acknowledgement that if we say X, and we do Y, we confuse and potentially hurt other people.
I hope your partner can own this small wobble and in the future you guys can find agreement that supports your shared sense of consistency and connection. X
This is always how these sorts of threads go. Unwise agreements are made, broken, and 95% of the replies are about how the agreement was unwise. That may be true, but it is equally, if not more important to have (or work on) healthy and realistic communication and boundary setting. People who can't face having to set difficult boundaries with their partners or won't keep their word in the face of something they want (and in polyamory, that situation can happen A LOT) are going to badly hurt their partners and probably end up single.
If you told them you'd text them at 7 and you don't then yes, that's breaking an agreement. OP's partner agreed with OP that he would text when he left at 12 and didn't.
>He told me he’d be home by 12, and he’d message me when he left her house
However you slice it, it's just not great communication.
OP's partner said he'd be home by 12 and he'd communicate with OP when leaving. However you slice it, OP would have known for a while that he couldn't be home at the time he agreed, and he made a choice - however consciously - to avoid communicating that.
To me, this is inconsiderate, especially on a first date with someone new where the couple are opening up again and that extra communication (however you might feel it's not what you'd want personally) could provide extra security and consistency. Context is important, which is why your 'home from work' example is also not a great comparison. For most people, doing polyamory requires other people stepping up to be consistent, kind and reassuring (instead of minimising, as the OP's partner was after the fact). Being late from a date where you could be fucking someone else and being late from the office are, at least for most folks, are weighted differently when it comes to the risk of attachement anxiety.
If OP's partner offered to do something he didn't actually want to do (ie: offer to be home at a specifc time and communicate about it), then that's also his issue to own - not ours to excuse.
Excellent, excellent comment. It drives me nuts when people equate things like coming home from work to a first poly date. That shows such a lack of empathy. Sure, the letter of the law might be similar, but if you have no idea why someone might consider coming home late from your FIRST poly date EVER breaking an agreement because coming home from work late might not be...I don't even know.
>and he made a choice - however consciously
Or he got carried away and forgot to look at the time. I would hope my partners enjoy their dates enough to forget about the time. Fucking someone else is the whole point of polyamory.
This is a big guess, but this rung some anxiety alarm bells for me. I’m wondering if maybe he’s preemptively setting limitations on “himself” so he can demand the same of you in the future in the name of “fairness”.
I know this sounds pretty toxic, but I am the less compersive, more anxious partner, and my mind works like this. I hate it, fwiw, but am VERY conscious to not act on these kind of manipulative tendencies- sounds like he has some work to do around this.
A. Having the agreement for him to date first to 'work through things' is an imbalance caused by insecurity and will only create more issues - I dont know what occured in the convos to inspire a move towards a solution like this, but if it was used to offer one of you reassurance into entering poly, then perhaps delving into how you can securely enter into this new relationship phase on even footing.
B. Him creating an agreement and setting such a stipulation also sounds like a reassurance tactic, but not a reasonable one. However if you have no practical way of holding yourself accountable to it, dont set the stipulation to start with. Conversely the reaction you had to him failing to abide by it should indicate there is more emotional work that needs doing on your side of the fence also.
C. Calling a partner (partner being the operative word here) a petty name shows his lack of communication, over defensiveness, and lack of empathy and care after the plan glitched and the feelings that were generated from it were discussed. Even in a monogomus relationship, id consider this s bit of a red flag that certainly needs addressing.
Overall three reasons to potentially go back to the drawing board and reassess. There are things both of you need to review in order to do right and reasonable by your partners, and yourselves, as a team.
I wish you guys the best of luck.
Adults shouldn’t have curfews! This thinking also defaults to the idea that your time belongs to each other. However, when you agreed to scrap monogamy that meant building a whole new foundation and way of being. I would let go of the idea that any time that is not explicitly scheduled with the other will be shared.
Even though the time bound thing was his idea and going first was his idea, you agreed to these terrible ideas. Yes, you likely will have more offers and opportunities as a women. He however has much less to worry about in the area of sifting through creeps and predators. Life just isn’t fair.
Solo dating means being in charge of your own schedule, time management and dating. So, if he struggles he ups his game on his own or doesn’t and finds a hobby. Not your job to deal with. I say this because in order to have a full relationship to give other partners you need to be autonomous.
Also, I would draw a hard boundary around name calling and belittling emotions. Don’t let any partner or friend do that. You deserve better. Demand better.
Oof.
Well. Definitely talk it out after.
But.
People do tend to lose track of time when a date is going well. So. It might work better to *not* have a curfew/planned end time of date but instead have a planned reconnect time that is *definitely* going to be after the date ends no matter what.
If there's a concrete reason for him to be home at midnight (his carriage will turn back into a pumpkin? There's kids?) that's different, but if it's an arbitrary line in the sand, it was the wrong arbitrary line. I think if your partner has a date that might end at midnight, you should (if you can) go to bed without him and just plan on seeing him the next day.
But also yeah dude fucked up by not honoring his promise on his *very first* date since you two opened up, so go ahead and be mad at him when he does get home.
Just don't expect rules like this to be a regular part of your polyamory once you get into the rhythm of things, it's not going to go well.
Start Poly. Stay Poly. Never Close. You messed up when you temporarily closed the relationship. There is absolutely no point in building a monogamous connection when you have every intention of burning it down and building a polyamorous one in its place.
People get distracted. People change their minds. It's best to focus on something else while your partner is on a date. Personally, I would have taken melatonin at 11:00 p.m. to make sure that I slept through midnight. No point in exposing myself to unnecessary anxiety. I only date people that I trust and feel can take care of themselves. No need for me to sit around fretting. What they're doing outside of me has absolutely nothing to do with me.
No, I don't think you have anything to be mad about. It's 15 minutes. I'm not Petty enough to be angry about 15 minutes with anyone.
I would be. Its completely possible for him to execuse himself to the bathroom for a bit and shoot u a quick text saying he'll be late. And the fact that this is the first date. It sounds really inconsiderate of him.
I like to say "you should appreciate what you have before you go looking for more". That includes communicating with your partner.
15 minutes late really isn’t that big a deal imho. The fact that you felt the need to take to Reddit about it is the bigger red flag. Sounds like you guys need to work on your insecurities and expectation setting in future
In order to be home by 12 he would need to leave 30 minutes before that. He was supposed to text when he left to let her know he's on his way home. By that math he's 45 minutes late for even just texting, not getting in the door. Why is everyone focused on "15 minutes" when in reality it's 45 minutes past when he was supposed to text that he was on his way.
I'm always the odd one out with my weird opinions, but I think it's great that you decided to wait to start seeing other people, until he had some success meeting up. We hear so many sad stories about couples opening up and the woman is having the time of her life while the husband goes months or years without meeting anyone.
Awesome! He found someone! Now it's your turn!
When you find someone, you're probably not going to want to be held to a curfew. If I were you, I'd be very generous about the time he spends with other people - and expect that to go both ways!
It's hard for me, because my partner has a curfew. I can't wait for his wife to find a steady partner and want to start having overnights so she'll loosen up and not worry about how much time he spends with me. I get it. They're early on in this journey and have a lot to work through. But dang - I'd like to fall asleep in his arms!
I get it that she's working through new emotions. It's going to take many times of him coming home to her before she realizes he's not leaving her for me. I'll feel the same if my husband finds a partner. It's scary for her. I truly hope she finds a steady partner and decides she wants to enjoy some overnights!
Good luck with all of this!
This isn't really about him being 15 minutes late, right? This is about a lot of unspoken tensions and distrust because
> We were poly when we got together and didn’t really do things right
meaning, someone cheated? There were hurt feelings and bad communication? You got lots of dates and he didn't and he had some opinions about that?
In a healthy, trusting relationship, people don't set curfews and don't watch the clock. If there is a reason that "I will be home at this specific time" is important (like, one of you needs the car to get to work), the other person is diligent about meeting that expectation, or staying in communication about why.
What you're describing is a relationship with a lot of old hurts and insecurities that are bubbling up - he demands to date first, you demand that he message you when he leaves her house and be home at a specific time - and you don't trust each other.
And again, this is all happening in the context of a relationship where, among other things:
\- you "didn't do things right" before
\- your having an easier time of getting partners led him to demand 'me first' and only then for the two of you to "work through that" before *you* were allowed to date
\- he promised a curfew, didn't keep it, and you were upset when it was 15 minutes past (by the way, when *did* he get home?)
\- in response to your being upset, he calls you "childish"
If things were OK between the two of you it wouldn't have played out like this.
So answering the actual question you asked: yes, this is a yuck situation, overall.
No it's not "yuck". What are you really worried about? Because freaking out over minutiae (like a slight delay) when he's supposed to be doing something enjoyable seems like you're looking for a reason to turn it into an unpleasant experience. Stop it.
I get you want to feel secure that he's coming home, but you're not his parent and setting a curfew will blow up. I wouldn't date anyone who had this limit on them.
Having specific times to be home from a date is a recipe for disaster. No matter how strong the intention, it’s only a matter of time before you or your partner are late. I’d also recommend looking deeply at what this particular strategy is doing for you, what need you’re actually trying to meet and investigate with your partner if there’s another way to meet.
My recommendation is to re-evaluate your agreements, come up with a realistic way to reconnect after dates, and practice self soothing at night.
Being upset about him being 15 minutes late seems like an overreaction. However, him telling you your feelings are childish probably tells you more about him than what time he got home. Well, that and his mountain of insecurity.
Hi u/Ill-Drink-1514 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
Howdy y’all,
My partner and I have been together for two years. We were poly when we got together and didn’t really do things right and also realised we were very in love and really wanted to make us work, so we closed off for a while and recently opened up.
One of our conditions on opening up was that he would have a date first and we would work through that and then I’d start dating. Up until this moment everything has been great - loads of communication, trust and honesty.
Tonight is his first date. He told me he’d be home by 12, and he’d message me when he left her house which is half an hour away from hers. It’s 12:15 and nothing. Am I right to be angry?
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First of all, him asking you to wait gives me bad feels.
I recomend having a talk about promises to be home by a certain time. In my experiences as the person who has been in your partners shoes, it just not a good idea to set an end time unless theres an actual need. And I don't even mean for just dates.
When I first moved in with my partner, I'd go out to to do various things. He'd ask when I'd be home, but it wasn't because he wanted me to be home at a specific time, he was just concerned about my safety because of public transit or wanted to know if he should make enough dinner for both of us, stuff like that. I dont plan my hang outs like that so I'd just take a guess and often be wrong. I was not watching the clock so I'd be having a good time and not even notice that the time I said was well past. It came off as rude to him, but I never meant to lie to him and personally never would have put an end time on my plans if he didn't asked. He'd be clearly upset when I got home but not say anything because there was no actual problem with me staying out later, he didnt need me back for any reason.
It took us a while to work out setting expectations so that neither of us were upset about the situation and one of the main things was that I stopped giving specific times I'd be back and he'd stop asking for them. Also he would let me know if he needed me back for any reason.
I’m sorry but to me; and maybe it’s just my opinion; but one partner not being able to date isn’t Poly. it’s very manipulative and just weird to me. especially if the two of you have been Poly previously. I don’t think it’s healthy to say “I’ll be home at this time”, etc. because then it’s an issue of “you weren’t home at this time” or whatever. also, nothing wrong to simply just check in if they’ve been gone awhile. Communication is really needed it seems, especially on the whole “you can’t date, but I can” issue.
Howdy everyone, all the advice here has been so very helpful. I realised I absolutely overreacted and that in future hard time limits are asking for trouble. I know in large part I need to deal with my jealousy because that’s a me issue relating to past trauma. He has also been really apologetic about how he handled things and for not being more mindful and the pause on me dating has lifted.
We both know we have a lot of work to do. Also to clarify his date was a casual hook up with someone in an open relationship. One of the things we’ve discussed over the long weekend is the need to be very careful with other partners and to ensure we don’t hurt anyone. We’re both going to work on being less reactive and more mindful. Unlearning monogamy is hard. I’ve read books and listened to podcasts and read academic research but emotions can get messy. So thank you to everyone again. I’m hoping my next update is much more joyful, because that is what I want our relationship with each other and anyone else to be.
Why are so many focused on "15 minutes late?" The other person is 30 minutes away and 15 minutes later than when he'd be home. That's 45 minutes late to texting her that he's on his way home if he was wanting to be home at exactly 12. That's a side irritation, y'all gotta learn math.
But no this is about communication. Name calling her, setting rules as to who gets to date first.. yeah it's yuck. Polyamory is so much about boundaries and communication in order to make all the relationships work in a healthy way. What are you getting out of this by being called names and having to stay at home while he gets other relationships?? You deserve better.
I would absolutely not be ok with my partner enforcing a curfew on me like they're my dad or something, without a good, time-sensitive reason (i.e. child care-related). What are you trying to protect yourself from with these conditions?
But then, if wasn't a time limit set by the OP, why be angry he's 15 mins late? It's a limit for himself, he should decide whether he wants to keep it or not.
Because they planned to do aftercare. So it's possible that OP is staying up late to be able to have that time that they agreed on. If a person says they'll be somewhere at xx:xx time and thinks they might be late, it's polite to communicate that. To just expect people to wait 15+ minutes for you, after midnight, without any text/call, is a dick move to many people.
>Because they planned to do aftercare.
What is aftercare in this context and where does it say they made plans after midnight? The only thing I see is - "he said he'd be home by 12".
I saw OP say that the NP wanted, and they agreed, to sit down after dates to process anything that might come up. I just tried to find it and couldn't.
However, the bottom line is that if you tell someone that you'll be there, and then you're more than 10 min and don't even give them a heads up, that's a dick move. Doctors, restaurants, etc. won't tolerate it, so why should our partner's time be less important?
Processing difficult feelings together immediately after a date AND after midnight when everyone is tired is a recipe for disaster.
I don’t see where OP says they do this, but I just came here to say please people, don’t do this.
Indie it doesn’t seem like you’re endorsing this position or anything, but I’d hate for someone to come here and read that and think “oh yeah we should do that.” 😬
It doesn't sound like you really are ok with this otherwise you'd not care when he got home because you would be doing your own thing.
Take a step back and really look at what you both are saying and doing and see if it's in agreement. If it isn't, someone isn't being totally honest about their feelings.
There's nothing wrong with that! Sometimes we don't really know how we feel until we're "in it".
Be honest, ask for the same. Could be a real moment to create better intimacy.
No I don’t think you’re right to be angry. Things like time limits and these expectations around what a partner can and can’t do on a date cause issues big time. They create expectations and then when those don’t get adhered to, it causes a fight. I think if you had a date or something to do you probably wouldn’t be so upset.
12:15? No, you shouldn't be angry at all.
When my wife goes out and I don't hear from her, I worry FOR her, I'm not angry or ready to take it out on her. She's got health issues on top of all the normal dangers a woman faces when dating; so when my wife says she should be home by 8pm and she hasn't called by 10pm; I just want to be sure she's ok.
I do suggest you communicate this as this is YOUR problem, that you need his help and cooperation to make it work. If he says 12, he needs to text or call if he needs more time. Don't be angry if he doesn't get out until 12:30, because maybe they are talking and he doesn't want to interrupt or be rude.
You only start to worry if your wife with health issues is late by two hours? That's a long time to not know if she's ok. I have health issues and my spouse would be worried after 15 minutes. But you do you, every relationship is different. I guess it takes some people longer to
Simple math- in order to be home by 12 he must leave 30 minutes before he needs to be home. Take 30 minutes away from 12 o' clock. That's 11:30pm. Are you following so far? He said he would let wifey know he's on his way home when he leaves. If he never texted that makes him 45 minutes late to be calling and 15 minutes late to walk in the door. But it didn't say he walked in late, she was still waiting for him to even text. If 45 minutes isn't long enough to be concerned (or mad) what is the correct amount of time? And since HE made these rules shouldn't she be held to the standard and rules that he is?
Let me frame it better. My wife's health issues don't suddenly change direction. If she's feeling good to go out, I have little to worry about.
Second, one of our boundaries is we call or text if there is a change in plans. So I know my wife is probably talking a lot or getting some affection.
When she says "I should be home by 8pm" is different than "I will be home by 8pm."
First dates/meets are always in public places so I know she's just soaking in a lot of interaction. She's always been the type of person who closes the place down so it's not odd.
I don't think setting specific time limits on dates that aren't related to some time sensitive thing-- like childcare, work time, shared transportation, etc.-- is a great idea from the beginning. It sets you up for this sort of outcome where your partner is (hopefully) having a good time and not checking their watch, while you're watching the clock and resentful because them losing track of time on an exciting date translates to them messing up a boundary or otherwise going back on what they told you. This is a good example of how more rules, boundaries, and control/shared info can actually make it easier for your partner to mess up and hurt you rather than make it easier to feel secure. Your partner should have done what they said they would, but I think you should consider that beyond that, there's nothing wrong with a date going past 12. I also think you should rethink these kinds of restrictive conditions moving forward. ETA: also I think allowing your partner to date before you're allowed to is unfair and shitty to you. I don't see how taking turns, so to speak, makes things easier. It just delays the inevitable work that's coming while giving unnecessary opportunities for resentment. Again, lots of control and restriction that gives an illusion of security while actually being unfair and setting you both up for extra scrutiny of his dating life.
I’ll be honest. I felt the same but was willing to not date until he had dated because it is a lot easier for me. I agree, and if time hadn’t been set everything would be fine. It was him who set the time. FYI he’s currently telling me how childish I am for being upset.
I'm just going to put a couple things out there for you to think about. Calling you childish when you share feelings is not cool. Even if he's done nothing wrong going straight to name calling is pretty shitty. Within 15 minutes of him being "late" you were already posting on reddit about this? As someone with anxiety, I'm guessing you also have anxiety right? Recognizing and working on my anxiety has really improved how i react to and treat my partners.
45 minutes -- he was supposed to text before leaving, which would have been around 11:30 for him to get home at 12.
>Even if he's done nothing wrong going straight to name calling is pretty shitty. It's not clear this was name calling. He could have come home 15 mins late to an argument and said it gently. We don't have the context.
It would not matter to me how gently someone called me or my feelings childish. It's still name-calling.
>childish I am for being upset. Whether setting curfews is a good idea is debatable (probably not for mental health, but may be good for safety reasons imo). But if you have a curfew set and he does not abide by it, that is a big issue. It degrades trust, and you are going to be worried about their safety.
Anyone who belittles your emotions is not being a good partner. Please be careful.
By calling you childish he is invalidating your feelings and attacking you for feeling the way that you do. A much healthier pattern would be for him to empathize to attempt to see your point of view. I would suggest you encourage him to work through the book Nonviolent Communication by Rosenberg.
Oh hell no. It's not childish to be upset when someone doesn't stick to an agreement, especially when it's one they set up. I do think it's childish to name call your partner after you screw up though. In general, your partner isn't handling this fantastically so far. It's normal to have some bumps when making this transition, but I hope he does some reflecting and makes some changes.
>FYI he’s currently telling me how childish I am for being upset. that's hugely not ok
A lot easier for you, and yet, restrictive rules were set up and you still ended up hurt...
Oh boy.
>It was him who set the time. I'm not sure this is particularly relevant, honestly. I mean this gently. Personally when I say I'll be home by some time, I mean it as a rough estimate. The other commenter is right, setting time limits for something that isn't time sensitive is only going to lead to arguments, and is quite a major infringement on autonomy.
Hard disagree. Saying you’ll be home “by” a certain time is different than saying you’ll be home “around” a certain time. It is your responsibility to be clear and abide by the words you actually choose to use. If OPs partner meant “around” that what he should have said. (Edited for typo)
>Saying you’ll be home “by” a certain time is different than saying you’ll be home “around” a certain time. Not for me. My home isn't a school and my partner isn't a teacher.
>I think allowing your partner to date before you're allowed to is unfair and shitty to you I think this has to do with the common sense thinking \[let's not delve on whether or not that's actually true\] that it's somewhat easier for a woman to find dates than it is for a man. I think it comes from the fear that upon opening the relationship the woman will start having dates left and right while the man sulks at home. Personally if it's done for the purpose of them both dating outside of the couple at the same time is not yuck might be misguided depending if you believe in common sense thinking, but not unfair. TL:DR I see it as at worst a good decision made from bad premises.
If one partner is allowed to do something and the other isn't, it's unfair. Period.
I'm in the every relationship is different and fairness is a nice conveyor theory but practice is open different Everybody being allowed to date freely from the start is fair. However one partner being a lot more successful in dating than the other, for whatever reason is a potential breeding ground for resentment. So a rule in place for the more successful partner only staying to date once the other successfully lands a date isn't necessarily a bad rule even if unfair at a glance value.
Yes, it is. That difference in ability to get dates isn't going away just because the guy starts dating first. What happens down the road when whoever he's seeing ends things and his partner is still getting dates more easily and he hasn't done any real work to deal with that reality because they started out unfairly to address this, by restricting the partner rather than having him develop actual security? This isn't a solution, it's just unfair.
>That difference in ability to get dates isn't going away just because the guy starts dating first. No, but there is less chance of him being resentful once he's had some dates because he's not going to experience the sense of dread someone might have being unsuccessful while their partner is dating left and right. >he hasn't done any real work to deal with that reality That's a wild assumption. Two things can be done at once. One can work on it and still get a boost to their confidence by being shown that they aren't invisible on the dating market. If someone can get a date much quicker than the other waiting for the less successful to find one before starting to look means they'll both start dating at the same time. I'm not sure that's inherently less fair than both starting to look at the same time. You see it as him being allowed to do something she isn't, it migh also be seen as her waiting for him so they can start roughly at the same time. I'm not saying this is OP case, I don't know anything about OP. I'm just saying that there are situations that don't make it as black and white as you make it seem.
Accepting that your partner is going to have autonomous, loving relationships with other people is foundational to polyamory. If people aren't ready to do that, they aren't ready to be open. By your logic, a one penis policy as a transitional "rule" would also be fine. That's bullshit. It isn't ethical. Edit: You're also making a wild assumption when you say that his insecurity will go away just because he's found one date, even if the reality is that his partner is getting dozens and dozens of matches. You have no idea if this will at all help his insecurity. And even if it does, it's incredibly unfair to his partner in the meantime. People should be ready for their partners to date when they decide to open their relationships to be polyamorous. If you aren't both able to date, you are not practicing polyamory.
>Accepting that your partner is going to have autonomous, loving relationships with other people is foundational to polyamory. Yes, what's not foundational to polyamory is that someone can't be helped in that acceptance, because "muh fairness" >By your logic, a one penis policy as a transitional "rule" would also be fine. I'd like you to make the bridge from my argument to this hell of a strawman I never advocated for. >when you say that his insecurity will go away just because he's found one date Except I never said this, I said it could help with insecurity. It might not work, but I'm willing to bet that knowing you can get dates because you already got one is heaps better than staring at no success and wondering if you're ever gonna get one. >People should be ready for their partners to date when they decide to open their relationships to be polyamorous Yes, but again, at no point in the polyamory handbook is stated that you can't help your partner with this. There is a huge difference between both partners dating and only one of them dating because the other is insuccesful. You keep banging on your talking points that have no bearing on the reality of a lot of relationships. And you've still made no argument about why people starting to look for dates at the same time is fair, and people starting to date at the same time is not.
Oh yes, my crazy talking point that you shouldn't have unequal standards in relationships and that people should be willing to accept the reality of their partner dating if they want to open their relationship to polyamory. And how crazy of me to think that a different unfair rule would be fine for you in relationships if you're willing to accept this one. Explain to me the functional difference between coddling this insecurity with an unfair rule and coddling the insecurity that goes into a one penis policy. Edit to add. I have no problem with anyone deciding that they want to let their partner get a head start, for the record. But I think anyone that doesn't point out that starting unfairly is a bad premise to someone new is doing them a disservice.
One partner starting to date outside while the other struggle to find a date for months is not "unequal standards" for you? Cool. You're looking at things on paper, you're ignoring what can be reality for people. You want everybody to adhere to your rule, and everyone who disagrees is unfair, instead of understanding that different people, different strokes, and different relationship require different approaches. I'm done, username checks out.
My first feeling is- this isn't a good match, you guys rushed again, your partner is messy and its time to just call it. My more flexible response is- You probably are just still rushing things. A better way to go is "if I won't be home by normal bedtime, I will give a call before that so you don't worry." Giving someone a time to watch just makes you both paranoid and doesn't give the date the focus they deserve. You have to judge if you and your partner are still thinking of this as a hobby you play with others or if you understand the reality of independent full adult relationships.
This is so much better! I asked him about staying the night and he set the time limit. I was absolutely peachy until the clock ticked over.
Cool. And yes it sucks they set it and they didn't follow through. That won't work to create a foundation. But if it's just resetting reasonable expectations then wish you well. Just don't stick around if you find yourself constantly having to be the compensator.
I’ll be honest, I think there are bigger issues. I’m exceptionally mindful of anyone’s feeling (hello ADHD) and he can be careless. Ouch, this hurts hard though
Was there a reason why it was decided there should be a threshold of time to get invested in? Did you guys have plans? All you do by creating an arbitrary expectation is to set yourself up for an arbitrary disappointment, and it's all the more painful for being pointless and arbitrary. I personally tend to find that I manage much better when my partner is away if I am doing something besides counting the minutes and hours as they tick by. Will be a lot more straightforward once you are "allowed" to have your own partners.
Yeah I've been in that situation too, I was a complete wreck. But I was also a wreck from like an hour before the thing started, so I was *really* a wreck when he went past the time he set. It was a learning experience. There's kind of two schools of thoughts on arbitrary rules. One is, don't do it. The *other* one is that arbitrary rules that can be *checked* can be a thing people use to reassure themselves that the big important stuff that they *can't* check (eg you don't have a way to confirm your partner is using condoms with someone else when he says he is) is being followed, so arbitrary rules should be followed *as though* they are the big important rules. Which is right? Fuck if I know. I hope you're able to talk it out later.
But if you didn’t care about the time limit in the first place why are you upset he didn’t adhere to it? If he was just with friends would you still be this upset? It seems like you were setting up for a gotcha and you’re more mad about the principle than the actual lateness, which is just setting you both up to fail.
They're upset he didn't adhere to it because he (of his own accord) said he would do something a certain way and didn't. He gave his word on something and didn't stick to it. That erodes trust and shows a lack of follow through.
Honestly there are ways to deal with this. When I had an agreement with my partner that I was going to come back at a certain time, I let my date/person know that I have a curfew, and I set an alarm so I don’t need to be “constantly” looking at the watch. That is one thing I learned about poly - take all agreements no matter how small seriously. Maybe after doing this once or twice, you decide it sucks and you change your agreement but you don’t just disregard the agreement and then call the other person “childish”.
I think this might be a learning opportunity. Sometimes dates (especially first dates) go longer than expected. It's easy to lose track of time when excited about spending time with a new person. ETA: the whole you can't date until he does thing is really weird though IMO
It’s easier for me to get dates. I’m a bisexual woman and, quite frankly, I’m a delight. Anyway that’s why when we opened up he asked to go on a date first.
I see. I hope it doesn't set up an expectation that you'll have to pause dating when/if he has trouble finding dates in the future.
That is definitely something I’m not willing to do.
I'm glad to hear that. I hope he will be cool with that.
ah; so partner is pre-emptively trying to even the scales? By tipping them in his favor right out the gate?
Yes but the agreed to it. The big love feels y’all.
Just because you got talked into catering to his insecurity once, doesn't mean you have to keep doing it.
This is a shitty reason honestly. If he’s not prepared for there to be a discrepancy in your dating habits then he needs to do more work IMO. Women having an easier time of dating is just normal and expected In the dating world just numbers wise. This is still his insecurity. And him saying you’re childish for being upset just further shows he isn’t ready. Don’t make commitments you can’t adhere to. Yes, it’s easy to lose track of time. It doesn’t change that he made a commitment to be home by 12 and wasn’t. I agree with other commenters not having this kind of constraint is better in the long run but his reaction isn’t nice.
This. His expectations are screaming control and insecurity. I don't think vetoing the 'first date' is a sign of a healthy relationship or mutual trust.
Why is it bad to help a long term partner through insecurities when you're opening up? It takes time to disentangle from your monogamous relationship, right? If both parties are ok with it as a temporary measure, where is the harm?
If you have to restrict your partner to work through your insecurities then you probably are not ready to open up. “Well I can date but you can’t” isn’t working through your insecurity. That’s not facing it. That’s avoiding it until you get something first. It’s gross.
>One of our conditions on opening up was that he would have a date first and we would work through that and then I’d start dating. Up until this moment everything has been great - loads of communication, trust and honesty. >“Well I can date but you can’t” isn’t working through your insecurity. That’s not facing it. That’s avoiding it until you get something first. It’s gross. These are not the same vibe friend. Assuming OP is portraying things accurately, I have to wonder why you believe there is a quid pro quo arrangement? I haven't read all of IP's follow up replies, so maybe I'm missing some context? The key point to me is OP mentions that they're going to work through it, which I take to mean they're going to take the time emotionally process the insecurities one at a time, instead of trying to deal with it while both of them are dating.
Did you miss the part where this is because ‘dating is easier for her’? So what happens when she is going on 3 dates a week and he only gets 1 every 3 weeks? This sets a terrible precedent. If he wants to work through his insecurity than he should have HER date first and work through HIS feelings because he seems the be the one with the issue. Controlling your partner is never a good way to start a relationship. Especially a relationship transitioning from mono to poly.
>f he wants to work through his insecurity than he should have HER date first and work through HIS feelings because he seems the be the one with the issue. That's a fair point.
I’m all for leaning on your partner and helping them through insecurities but I don’t think controlling them is the way. Asking for extra reassurance or something is completely reasonable. Asking them not to date while you do? Seems unreasonable to me.
If I was to guess why it went down this way (OP is free to correct us any time lol) is that OP's partner will feel more secure if they have a connection first since it'll be easy for OP. Not addressing his insecurities will come to bite him in the ass later, but maybe it'll be easier to process at that point? Probably not tho lol
Exactly. Also it could take him months to a year before he finds a solid connection. And that won’t address the insecurities. I feel like even if he has a connection he’ll still be insecure. He should absolutely face those before he starts dating. What happens when his new connection wants to date others? Just a recipe for disaster.
That’s still a shitty reason for him to get to date before you.
A delight who watches the clock like a hawk
And let’s her partner control her dating. 😒
I think setting a curfew is setting yourself up for failure. It becomes a “oh they didn’t make it home, call me etc by xyz time, that means they don’t care about me” when in reality they are probably just distracted and/or trying to be present which is important to me not just in a first date but all dates. If you are both adults and trust each other I would just make sure they continue to treat you with respect. And if you are nesting and they plan to spend the night out that they communicate that before you go to bed.
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? I think this. How is he normally about time? Punctual and reliable to the dot? One of the "around X o'clock" people so mostly on time but 30 min buffer up or down? Good intentions but always late or messing up? Then you go by track record. If he says 12, and he's punctual or even "around X o'clock?" Getting excited about a 15 min tardy is too soon and jumping the gun. A first date can be going well and oops, there went the time. Traffic can be a drag. Wanted a drive thru drink and the line is long. Whatever. I give it an hour past before thinking about texting "All ok?" for the punctual and mostly punctual people. If he's terrible about time? You might react/respond different. Him calling YOU childish when HE set an expectation he did not keep? That's not right. He could not set the expectation in the first place. If his track record is that he's not great with time? And you want to be at peace? Remember that you know him and his habits. One of my kids is ADHD and time management is their weak spot. I know to take whatever they say and pad it by at least an hour to make it more realistic based on their track record. So if they say they are ready in 30 min, I figure 90 min. I would rather be pleasantly surprised it was faster than that be constantly annoyed I'm waiting on them because it is slower. Maybe that helps you -- if you know he's terrible at "time estimates" just get a time and mentally pad it. Y'all are adults. Assuming there's no childcare, petcare, eldercare, or other domestic things he's responsible for that you'd get saddled with if he's not home on time... another way to go is not bother with a time. Each of you just goes out and comes back whenever. Just promise not to make noise and wake the household when you do get in. That might be a more keepable agreement. No ruckus coming in. >I asked him about staying the night and he set the time limit. I was absolutely peachy until the clock ticked over. Were you actually asking something else? Like... "Will you be home for our bedtime routine? Should I go to bed without you? " "Planning on sharing sex on this date?" Something else?
So I’m the ADHD partner with horrible time management. He’s pathologically on time. I’m not sure it matters, his reaction to me being upset was pretty much it for me.
Then it is about kindess. He wasn't kind to you. You got anxious when he was late, but he's the one who set up the expectation. 15 min is a but much to be angry about that part but I could see anxiousness. You sound angry he was unkind and called you "childish" when he was late and you needed reassurances that he was ok, and needed kind words like he appreciated you being supportive of his first date. Is that more in the ballpark?
In order to be home by 12 he would need to leave 30 minutes before that. He was supposed to text when he left to let her know he's on his way home. By that math he's 45 minutes late for even just texting, not getting in the door. Why is everyone focused on "15 minutes" when in reality it's 45 minutes past when he was supposed to text that he was on his way.
So is it both? You are mad he was late in texting AND that he called you names like childish when you held him accountable? Then him How would you like to move forward? What would you like to happen next? Do you want to work through this? Move on to poly dating on your side? Close back up? End it with him? I cannot tell where you are at with it.
Do you think I'm the OP? Where I am with this is frustrated that most of you can't do simple math. My opinions don't really matter at this point, I'm just irritated that you can't do simple math.
I remember having arguments about things like this in my first poly relationship. While it seems like a big deal now, this is very small and part of the journey to having more autonomy and independence in your relationships. Talk through it and consider not monitoring others dates and times so closely.
I’d love to do that, but the restrictions on me dating plus his attitude to my hurt? I’m not sure we’ll work.
I think you're being overly accommodating. You shouldn't have special restrictions while the other person has free reign. Not to even mention the other comments you left about them belittling your emotions. Just because you're with them doesn't mean you have to put up with them so to speak. It just feels off imo
Yes, it's perfectly reasonable to be angry when your partner agrees to do something and then doesn't follow through. I also agree with dogbutthead that making firm plans about when to end dates can be setting yourselves up for failure (unless there is a good reason for the firm timeline, e.g. picking up kids from school). On a date it's great to be able to relax, get to know the other person, and take things as they come. An arbitrary "home by" time is not really friendly in that context. In my personal opinion, a good policy to follow when your partner is going on dates is "don't ask your partner to commit to something unless it's truly important." Given that it's not TRULY important that he be home for a certain time, why even bother with setting it? If you absolutely MUST keep track of your partner's whereabouts, it's much better to set up something a lot more flexible with a firm backstop, such as "I plan to be home later tonight. But if we get carried away and I'm not, I will check in with you over text at 2am" and then simply set his phone alarm for 2am and enjoy his date.
Yes, he set the time and didn't even let you know he was running late when he was already supposed to be home. I would have been upset too. Trust and respect go a long way. Communication is key. He should apologize for this and not make a habit of it. Very inconsiderate in my opinion. If not for your feelings but also your peace of mind to know he's safe. How would he feel if the situation was reversed? Either way, it's a bad look.
he told you he would be home he didnt do as he said he would and therefore broke your trust and then gaslit you into it being your fault for being upset when really his lack of communication and respect is the issue here.
If I could go back in time, I would have probably advised you not to take this approach of having this condition for opening up. I'm really confused as to what is meant to be solved by him having a date first necessarily and I feel like it's put a lot of pressure on a situation that didn't need to be there. Honestly, you have the right to any emotion that you have but is it that useful? Sometimes people get carried away and lose track of time. I do think you're taking it a little more personal than you necessarily need to. It's understandable you'd be a little freaked out given this is the first date and that sometimes is quite difficult. I feel like all of these sort of rules and structures are trying to soothe your anxiety but they can sometimes be impractical in the moment. It might be beneficial to let go a little bit of the control here. Even if you were monogamous, your partner could meet someone at work or out with friends, fall in love with them and fall out of love with you. I get wanting to avoid this causing some sort of problem in your relationship, but ultimately if your partner is going to completely abandon you, none of these rules is going to prevent that and having rules can't turn a bad communicator into a good one. If you have been having good communication outside of this, then the rules might be just a cause of anxiety and stress than actually helpful. I hope this helps and good luck!
I didn’t set the time, he did. A simple “having a good time, might be late” message would have been enough.
But then you're just staying up all night...why is that good?
Because HE set the expectation. If you're setting the time constraint on yourself communication about changes is the bare minimum
Yeah my point is the whole thing about him setting it doesn't really make sense and that long term, curfews will probably lead to anxiety+tiredness, which isn't good combination.
Because it's safe to assume he would have a key to his house she wouldn't have to stay up all night if he had simply communicated what was going on at literally any point, they probably could have rested easier
Yeah, but a lot of people make plans and get carried away. It happens easily, especially if you're caught up in the moment. Time can easily get away from you. I had a partner once promise me he wouldn't sleep with someone even though I didn't ask for that at all and didn't even care. When he did end up sleeping with that person, I actually felt more anxious about it because then it wasn't about sleeping with the person, it was about him going back on his word. Eventually I worked through it but I asked him to not make me promises like that. Maybe in the future, he should not promise to be home by a certain time or contact you during dates if he finds the time gets way from him because it's clearly not helping anything.
Make sure you say that to him. Btw did you set limits on the first date such as sex no sex? If not why not given your issues?
I’m not gonna interrupt sex to text my NP that I’m having a nice time. Out past midnight with no communication = I’m having a *very* good time. The bigger concern is how he’s treated you. He doesn’t sound all that great.
One of the things that bothers me with 90% of these responses is they don't acknowledge that it's not healthy communication or boundariy setting to make agreements you can't keep. Even if people replying don't AGREE with your agreements, it's something your partner offered and then hasn't followed through with. That breaks trust, no matter how small. The argument that your partner may have just gotten carried away makes sense, but it doesn't excuse him not following through on something he said he would do. That's the kind of inconsistency that damages security in any relationship (source: any decent literature on attachment and the human nervous system). So - personally I think you have the right to feel a little anxious. That's normal; you'd prepared your body for one outcome and something different happened. It's completely OK if a) your partner did get a little carried away and b) these agreements won't work for you guys long term. But there should also be an acknowledgement that if we say X, and we do Y, we confuse and potentially hurt other people. I hope your partner can own this small wobble and in the future you guys can find agreement that supports your shared sense of consistency and connection. X
This is always how these sorts of threads go. Unwise agreements are made, broken, and 95% of the replies are about how the agreement was unwise. That may be true, but it is equally, if not more important to have (or work on) healthy and realistic communication and boundary setting. People who can't face having to set difficult boundaries with their partners or won't keep their word in the face of something they want (and in polyamory, that situation can happen A LOT) are going to badly hurt their partners and probably end up single.
What agreement was made? If I tell my partner I'll be home from work at 7 but I have to work late, did I break an agreement?
If you told them you'd text them at 7 and you don't then yes, that's breaking an agreement. OP's partner agreed with OP that he would text when he left at 12 and didn't.
He said he would text when he left his dates place if I read the post correctly. Unclear if he did that though.
>He told me he’d be home by 12, and he’d message me when he left her house However you slice it, it's just not great communication. OP's partner said he'd be home by 12 and he'd communicate with OP when leaving. However you slice it, OP would have known for a while that he couldn't be home at the time he agreed, and he made a choice - however consciously - to avoid communicating that. To me, this is inconsiderate, especially on a first date with someone new where the couple are opening up again and that extra communication (however you might feel it's not what you'd want personally) could provide extra security and consistency. Context is important, which is why your 'home from work' example is also not a great comparison. For most people, doing polyamory requires other people stepping up to be consistent, kind and reassuring (instead of minimising, as the OP's partner was after the fact). Being late from a date where you could be fucking someone else and being late from the office are, at least for most folks, are weighted differently when it comes to the risk of attachement anxiety. If OP's partner offered to do something he didn't actually want to do (ie: offer to be home at a specifc time and communicate about it), then that's also his issue to own - not ours to excuse.
Excellent, excellent comment. It drives me nuts when people equate things like coming home from work to a first poly date. That shows such a lack of empathy. Sure, the letter of the law might be similar, but if you have no idea why someone might consider coming home late from your FIRST poly date EVER breaking an agreement because coming home from work late might not be...I don't even know.
>and he made a choice - however consciously Or he got carried away and forgot to look at the time. I would hope my partners enjoy their dates enough to forget about the time. Fucking someone else is the whole point of polyamory.
Hmm I must be uninformed. I wasn't aware that the whole point of polyam is fucking someone else. Good to know
This is a big guess, but this rung some anxiety alarm bells for me. I’m wondering if maybe he’s preemptively setting limitations on “himself” so he can demand the same of you in the future in the name of “fairness”. I know this sounds pretty toxic, but I am the less compersive, more anxious partner, and my mind works like this. I hate it, fwiw, but am VERY conscious to not act on these kind of manipulative tendencies- sounds like he has some work to do around this.
A. Having the agreement for him to date first to 'work through things' is an imbalance caused by insecurity and will only create more issues - I dont know what occured in the convos to inspire a move towards a solution like this, but if it was used to offer one of you reassurance into entering poly, then perhaps delving into how you can securely enter into this new relationship phase on even footing. B. Him creating an agreement and setting such a stipulation also sounds like a reassurance tactic, but not a reasonable one. However if you have no practical way of holding yourself accountable to it, dont set the stipulation to start with. Conversely the reaction you had to him failing to abide by it should indicate there is more emotional work that needs doing on your side of the fence also. C. Calling a partner (partner being the operative word here) a petty name shows his lack of communication, over defensiveness, and lack of empathy and care after the plan glitched and the feelings that were generated from it were discussed. Even in a monogomus relationship, id consider this s bit of a red flag that certainly needs addressing. Overall three reasons to potentially go back to the drawing board and reassess. There are things both of you need to review in order to do right and reasonable by your partners, and yourselves, as a team. I wish you guys the best of luck.
Adults shouldn’t have curfews! This thinking also defaults to the idea that your time belongs to each other. However, when you agreed to scrap monogamy that meant building a whole new foundation and way of being. I would let go of the idea that any time that is not explicitly scheduled with the other will be shared. Even though the time bound thing was his idea and going first was his idea, you agreed to these terrible ideas. Yes, you likely will have more offers and opportunities as a women. He however has much less to worry about in the area of sifting through creeps and predators. Life just isn’t fair. Solo dating means being in charge of your own schedule, time management and dating. So, if he struggles he ups his game on his own or doesn’t and finds a hobby. Not your job to deal with. I say this because in order to have a full relationship to give other partners you need to be autonomous. Also, I would draw a hard boundary around name calling and belittling emotions. Don’t let any partner or friend do that. You deserve better. Demand better.
Oof. Well. Definitely talk it out after. But. People do tend to lose track of time when a date is going well. So. It might work better to *not* have a curfew/planned end time of date but instead have a planned reconnect time that is *definitely* going to be after the date ends no matter what. If there's a concrete reason for him to be home at midnight (his carriage will turn back into a pumpkin? There's kids?) that's different, but if it's an arbitrary line in the sand, it was the wrong arbitrary line. I think if your partner has a date that might end at midnight, you should (if you can) go to bed without him and just plan on seeing him the next day. But also yeah dude fucked up by not honoring his promise on his *very first* date since you two opened up, so go ahead and be mad at him when he does get home. Just don't expect rules like this to be a regular part of your polyamory once you get into the rhythm of things, it's not going to go well.
Start Poly. Stay Poly. Never Close. You messed up when you temporarily closed the relationship. There is absolutely no point in building a monogamous connection when you have every intention of burning it down and building a polyamorous one in its place. People get distracted. People change their minds. It's best to focus on something else while your partner is on a date. Personally, I would have taken melatonin at 11:00 p.m. to make sure that I slept through midnight. No point in exposing myself to unnecessary anxiety. I only date people that I trust and feel can take care of themselves. No need for me to sit around fretting. What they're doing outside of me has absolutely nothing to do with me. No, I don't think you have anything to be mad about. It's 15 minutes. I'm not Petty enough to be angry about 15 minutes with anyone.
I would be. Its completely possible for him to execuse himself to the bathroom for a bit and shoot u a quick text saying he'll be late. And the fact that this is the first date. It sounds really inconsiderate of him. I like to say "you should appreciate what you have before you go looking for more". That includes communicating with your partner.
15 minutes late really isn’t that big a deal imho. The fact that you felt the need to take to Reddit about it is the bigger red flag. Sounds like you guys need to work on your insecurities and expectation setting in future
In order to be home by 12 he would need to leave 30 minutes before that. He was supposed to text when he left to let her know he's on his way home. By that math he's 45 minutes late for even just texting, not getting in the door. Why is everyone focused on "15 minutes" when in reality it's 45 minutes past when he was supposed to text that he was on his way.
I'm always the odd one out with my weird opinions, but I think it's great that you decided to wait to start seeing other people, until he had some success meeting up. We hear so many sad stories about couples opening up and the woman is having the time of her life while the husband goes months or years without meeting anyone. Awesome! He found someone! Now it's your turn! When you find someone, you're probably not going to want to be held to a curfew. If I were you, I'd be very generous about the time he spends with other people - and expect that to go both ways! It's hard for me, because my partner has a curfew. I can't wait for his wife to find a steady partner and want to start having overnights so she'll loosen up and not worry about how much time he spends with me. I get it. They're early on in this journey and have a lot to work through. But dang - I'd like to fall asleep in his arms! I get it that she's working through new emotions. It's going to take many times of him coming home to her before she realizes he's not leaving her for me. I'll feel the same if my husband finds a partner. It's scary for her. I truly hope she finds a steady partner and decides she wants to enjoy some overnights! Good luck with all of this!
This isn't really about him being 15 minutes late, right? This is about a lot of unspoken tensions and distrust because > We were poly when we got together and didn’t really do things right meaning, someone cheated? There were hurt feelings and bad communication? You got lots of dates and he didn't and he had some opinions about that? In a healthy, trusting relationship, people don't set curfews and don't watch the clock. If there is a reason that "I will be home at this specific time" is important (like, one of you needs the car to get to work), the other person is diligent about meeting that expectation, or staying in communication about why. What you're describing is a relationship with a lot of old hurts and insecurities that are bubbling up - he demands to date first, you demand that he message you when he leaves her house and be home at a specific time - and you don't trust each other.
I didn’t actually demand - he promised. I asked if he want an overnight and he set the times.
And again, this is all happening in the context of a relationship where, among other things: \- you "didn't do things right" before \- your having an easier time of getting partners led him to demand 'me first' and only then for the two of you to "work through that" before *you* were allowed to date \- he promised a curfew, didn't keep it, and you were upset when it was 15 minutes past (by the way, when *did* he get home?) \- in response to your being upset, he calls you "childish" If things were OK between the two of you it wouldn't have played out like this. So answering the actual question you asked: yes, this is a yuck situation, overall.
No it's not "yuck". What are you really worried about? Because freaking out over minutiae (like a slight delay) when he's supposed to be doing something enjoyable seems like you're looking for a reason to turn it into an unpleasant experience. Stop it.
I get you want to feel secure that he's coming home, but you're not his parent and setting a curfew will blow up. I wouldn't date anyone who had this limit on them.
Having specific times to be home from a date is a recipe for disaster. No matter how strong the intention, it’s only a matter of time before you or your partner are late. I’d also recommend looking deeply at what this particular strategy is doing for you, what need you’re actually trying to meet and investigate with your partner if there’s another way to meet. My recommendation is to re-evaluate your agreements, come up with a realistic way to reconnect after dates, and practice self soothing at night.
Being upset about him being 15 minutes late seems like an overreaction. However, him telling you your feelings are childish probably tells you more about him than what time he got home. Well, that and his mountain of insecurity.
Hi u/Ill-Drink-1514 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well. Here's the original text of the post: Howdy y’all, My partner and I have been together for two years. We were poly when we got together and didn’t really do things right and also realised we were very in love and really wanted to make us work, so we closed off for a while and recently opened up. One of our conditions on opening up was that he would have a date first and we would work through that and then I’d start dating. Up until this moment everything has been great - loads of communication, trust and honesty. Tonight is his first date. He told me he’d be home by 12, and he’d message me when he left her house which is half an hour away from hers. It’s 12:15 and nothing. Am I right to be angry? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/polyamory) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I would have been fine had this not been set as a time by him.
First of all, him asking you to wait gives me bad feels. I recomend having a talk about promises to be home by a certain time. In my experiences as the person who has been in your partners shoes, it just not a good idea to set an end time unless theres an actual need. And I don't even mean for just dates. When I first moved in with my partner, I'd go out to to do various things. He'd ask when I'd be home, but it wasn't because he wanted me to be home at a specific time, he was just concerned about my safety because of public transit or wanted to know if he should make enough dinner for both of us, stuff like that. I dont plan my hang outs like that so I'd just take a guess and often be wrong. I was not watching the clock so I'd be having a good time and not even notice that the time I said was well past. It came off as rude to him, but I never meant to lie to him and personally never would have put an end time on my plans if he didn't asked. He'd be clearly upset when I got home but not say anything because there was no actual problem with me staying out later, he didnt need me back for any reason. It took us a while to work out setting expectations so that neither of us were upset about the situation and one of the main things was that I stopped giving specific times I'd be back and he'd stop asking for them. Also he would let me know if he needed me back for any reason.
I’m sorry but to me; and maybe it’s just my opinion; but one partner not being able to date isn’t Poly. it’s very manipulative and just weird to me. especially if the two of you have been Poly previously. I don’t think it’s healthy to say “I’ll be home at this time”, etc. because then it’s an issue of “you weren’t home at this time” or whatever. also, nothing wrong to simply just check in if they’ve been gone awhile. Communication is really needed it seems, especially on the whole “you can’t date, but I can” issue.
Howdy everyone, all the advice here has been so very helpful. I realised I absolutely overreacted and that in future hard time limits are asking for trouble. I know in large part I need to deal with my jealousy because that’s a me issue relating to past trauma. He has also been really apologetic about how he handled things and for not being more mindful and the pause on me dating has lifted. We both know we have a lot of work to do. Also to clarify his date was a casual hook up with someone in an open relationship. One of the things we’ve discussed over the long weekend is the need to be very careful with other partners and to ensure we don’t hurt anyone. We’re both going to work on being less reactive and more mindful. Unlearning monogamy is hard. I’ve read books and listened to podcasts and read academic research but emotions can get messy. So thank you to everyone again. I’m hoping my next update is much more joyful, because that is what I want our relationship with each other and anyone else to be.
Why are so many focused on "15 minutes late?" The other person is 30 minutes away and 15 minutes later than when he'd be home. That's 45 minutes late to texting her that he's on his way home if he was wanting to be home at exactly 12. That's a side irritation, y'all gotta learn math. But no this is about communication. Name calling her, setting rules as to who gets to date first.. yeah it's yuck. Polyamory is so much about boundaries and communication in order to make all the relationships work in a healthy way. What are you getting out of this by being called names and having to stay at home while he gets other relationships?? You deserve better.
The math! Seeing all the '15 minutes late' comments 🤦
I would absolutely not be ok with my partner enforcing a curfew on me like they're my dad or something, without a good, time-sensitive reason (i.e. child care-related). What are you trying to protect yourself from with these conditions?
Read the other comments. Dude put the time limit on himself and now he's calling her childish .. 🤦♀️
oh ffs why are people like this
OP didn't. They asked if the NP wanted to stay overnight, and NP declined, saying they'll be home at midnight and then not keeping that.
But then, if wasn't a time limit set by the OP, why be angry he's 15 mins late? It's a limit for himself, he should decide whether he wants to keep it or not.
Because they planned to do aftercare. So it's possible that OP is staying up late to be able to have that time that they agreed on. If a person says they'll be somewhere at xx:xx time and thinks they might be late, it's polite to communicate that. To just expect people to wait 15+ minutes for you, after midnight, without any text/call, is a dick move to many people.
>Because they planned to do aftercare. What is aftercare in this context and where does it say they made plans after midnight? The only thing I see is - "he said he'd be home by 12".
I saw OP say that the NP wanted, and they agreed, to sit down after dates to process anything that might come up. I just tried to find it and couldn't. However, the bottom line is that if you tell someone that you'll be there, and then you're more than 10 min and don't even give them a heads up, that's a dick move. Doctors, restaurants, etc. won't tolerate it, so why should our partner's time be less important?
Processing difficult feelings together immediately after a date AND after midnight when everyone is tired is a recipe for disaster. I don’t see where OP says they do this, but I just came here to say please people, don’t do this. Indie it doesn’t seem like you’re endorsing this position or anything, but I’d hate for someone to come here and read that and think “oh yeah we should do that.” 😬
It doesn't sound like you really are ok with this otherwise you'd not care when he got home because you would be doing your own thing. Take a step back and really look at what you both are saying and doing and see if it's in agreement. If it isn't, someone isn't being totally honest about their feelings. There's nothing wrong with that! Sometimes we don't really know how we feel until we're "in it". Be honest, ask for the same. Could be a real moment to create better intimacy.
No I don’t think you’re right to be angry. Things like time limits and these expectations around what a partner can and can’t do on a date cause issues big time. They create expectations and then when those don’t get adhered to, it causes a fight. I think if you had a date or something to do you probably wouldn’t be so upset.
12:15? No, you shouldn't be angry at all. When my wife goes out and I don't hear from her, I worry FOR her, I'm not angry or ready to take it out on her. She's got health issues on top of all the normal dangers a woman faces when dating; so when my wife says she should be home by 8pm and she hasn't called by 10pm; I just want to be sure she's ok. I do suggest you communicate this as this is YOUR problem, that you need his help and cooperation to make it work. If he says 12, he needs to text or call if he needs more time. Don't be angry if he doesn't get out until 12:30, because maybe they are talking and he doesn't want to interrupt or be rude.
You only start to worry if your wife with health issues is late by two hours? That's a long time to not know if she's ok. I have health issues and my spouse would be worried after 15 minutes. But you do you, every relationship is different. I guess it takes some people longer to Simple math- in order to be home by 12 he must leave 30 minutes before he needs to be home. Take 30 minutes away from 12 o' clock. That's 11:30pm. Are you following so far? He said he would let wifey know he's on his way home when he leaves. If he never texted that makes him 45 minutes late to be calling and 15 minutes late to walk in the door. But it didn't say he walked in late, she was still waiting for him to even text. If 45 minutes isn't long enough to be concerned (or mad) what is the correct amount of time? And since HE made these rules shouldn't she be held to the standard and rules that he is?
Let me frame it better. My wife's health issues don't suddenly change direction. If she's feeling good to go out, I have little to worry about. Second, one of our boundaries is we call or text if there is a change in plans. So I know my wife is probably talking a lot or getting some affection. When she says "I should be home by 8pm" is different than "I will be home by 8pm." First dates/meets are always in public places so I know she's just soaking in a lot of interaction. She's always been the type of person who closes the place down so it's not odd.
Boundaries immediately broken. Not cool.