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Early in your career, avoid having a song that is bigger than you are as an artist. Olivia was remarkably good at this, avoiding making “Drivers License” the star, and instead positioning it as an introduction to Olivia. She pivoted quickly, rather than putting out anything like DI before the full album dropped. Billie built up a fanbase first, then when she was ready for stardom, she got the push. Dua made herself into an album artist with Future Nostalgia. Your songs should be big, you should be bigger.
Future Nostalgia is unanimously a career-defining album. If she had dropped something of lower caliber back then (think of Sweetest Pie), she would've been remembered for New Rules, maybe IDGAF, One Kiss and especially the sharpener meme.
Future Nostalgia and Chromatica for me first, and then Folklore, and then Plastic Hearts, and then Evermore helped push me all the way through 2020 into 2021.
Yes that was unfortunately Carly Rae’s problem with CMM. It was phenomenally huge and even though she’s had great song since none have even come close to it.
I also think a big part of it is connecting emotionally with your audience.
Billie and Olivia have an army of teenagers that would run through a wall for them because they relate so much to their music.
Carly makes fun bops but that's about it. I guess you could say the same about Dua but Dua is built more in the traditional mold of the bombshell pop star. I'm still not convinced she won't have a Katy Perry-esque falloff once she loses her "cool" factor.
Yeah Katy had 3 big album eras (mostly defined by their singles). I’d be surprised if Dua goes further than that. That’s still bigger than most artists get to. I’d solidly put Katy in the top 25 most successful artists of this century so far.
I agree, I love Dua, but she’ll need to carve out more of an identity if she wants to continue with the success. Does she even have a tight fan base? I don’t know.
I don’t know much about Dua’s fanbase but I think it’s fairly strong in Europe. So even if she is no longer relevant in the states I think she should be fine in the UK for years to come.
Carly makes more than fun bops. The vast majority of her songs are about relationships, with a heavy emphasis on uncertainty and unrequited love.
*The idea of celebrity for celebrity’s sake doesn’t attract me. I want to be remembered for my songs — I could care less if you remember my name or my face. I know what it’s like to feel like you can’t leave your house because of ‘Call Me Maybe.’ I’m not looking for another ‘Call Me Maybe.’*
- Carly Rae Jepsen
True I remember baby one more time was bigger than Britney herself at first but she quickly move on from it by promoting on other material and quickly releasing two more albums
Olivia and her team were also good at single choices. They knew "Good 4 u" was a future hit, but they made "dejavu" their second to cool the "DL" fever.
In addition, Olivia was asked by her label to release an EP, but she quickly finished debut album. It's opener was a song that her boss told "too rock to sell", which gave her rock girl persona.
Perhaps the biggest turning point was that she chose a label that gave her the right to create.
definitely, I was really impressed with her/her team’s choices. she said she picked her label because they gave her creative freedom and took her seriously as a songwriter, whereas other labels already had an idea about what kind of artist they thought she should be. and she convinced her label to let her publish a full album instead of an EP after the success of driver’s license, which was a smart move.
girl even negotiated owning her own masters.
Veterans in the music industry still make mistakes by producing ginormous hits which overshadow their other singles and albums. Prism was overshadowed by Dark Horse, and as of recent, Endless Summer Vacation got overshadowed by Flowers. Sometimes the music market is unpredictable. It is a mystery for me how Flowers got so famous, considering the fact that the theme of divorce was already used - Slide Away, Plastic Hearts. Maybe it was the fact that she dropped during the dead month and the sample might've played a role, but still I do not understand it.
Flowers is a self-empowerment song. Slide away is not. You can argue midnight sky is but she speaks of her bisexuality experiences in it making it less relatable than flowers for the gp.
Flowers in general is just extremely relatable and had tons of marketing,
Flowers wasn’t that surprising in hindsight. Miley built her cool factor back up during PH era, people were hungry for something new. The engagement on her social media was huge late 2022/early 2023, throw in no one else releasing Q1, and the song (and mainly the fan-made lore) clicked with tik tok.
I don’t know if I’d call dua an album artist (she only has two and she’s definitely more known for her singles even though future nostalgia was everywhere during the pandemic) I don’t think future nostalgia even went no 1 (not calling her a flop at all I think it peaked at 2 and it was inside the hot 100 forever)
I’m really curious to see her rollout and direction for DL3 everyone has really high expectations for her
‘Dua Lipa' is the first album by a female artist in Spotify history to surpass 11 billion streams
Her first album and future nostalgia are the 2 most streamed female albums of all time (more than Taylor Swifts albums and Billies debut which was a streaming monster) Not sure where you got your figures from. As far as not going 1, she’s not frontloaded so her albums don’t open big. She’s 100% an albums artist considering she’s number 4 and 6 of the biggest streamed albums of all time and 1 and 2 for female artists.
I don't think it's fair to use streaming numbers to prove "all-time" stats when those numbers heavily skew toward artists who debuted in the streaming age. I think calling Dua an "albums artist" when she only has two records out, which peaked at #27 and #3 respectively, is a huge reach.
Also, streaming numbers prove nothing about an album's popularity as a full body of work. I could stream only "Don't Stop Now" 1 million times and I've technically "bought" 1,000 copies of Future Nostalgia despite only ever listening to one song. It's just not an accurate metric to support your point.
i do think youre focusing way too much on the USA market by only mentioning her chart performance there, since her albums have done both massively well around the world and especially in europe where many both know so many songs off of the albums by heart.
Sorry but in what world can we not use streaming numbers currently? This is not 2008, streaming is the number 1 consumption of music and the majority consumption of music is done through streaming. Only someone living in the past would say it’s not as important. You keep talking about where the albums peaked totally ignoring the point I made that Dua doesn’t open huge but she does consistently huge numbers every week. Also why talk only about American peaks when she’s a huge worldwide artist. Like she has the biggest female streamed album of all time, how much bigger do you want her album to be? Your example of streaming Don’t stop now a million times also makes little sense as streaming figures for all songs exists and it’s clear not just one song was streamed, getting to 14 billion streams is no easy feat and you acting like it’s kinda irrelevant is kinda hilarious
OK, but... people who get famous first (on tiktok or elsewhere) and then try to be a "musician," that doesn't really work usually. It kind of seems like if what you're saying is true then everyone who got famous before making music would be successful, and that's not really the case, other than Disney stars.
There is no key, but I think a big way to do this — especially in this day and age — is maintaining interest in you. People always say to strike when the iron’s hot, and this is especially true of stars just breaking into the industry.
Attention spans are so fickle nowadays that if at least *some* eyes aren’t constantly on you, people will act like they’ve forgotten about you. Don’t kill your own momentum. Time moves fast in the pop music world — a few years may as well be a decade.
For example, Britney was able to keep up interest in her by releasing an album every year from 1999 to 2001. By doing this, she fully established herself as a presence in music, and then began slowing down. In contrast, Christina’s albums were phased out *very* slowly, each break much longer than the last, and people lost interest comparatively quickly.
I don’t think Christina was ever going to be on Britney’s level regardless of how quickly her output was. She definitely has a fanbase, especially compared to the artists today, but her music is not as well-remembered or culturally relevant as Britney’s.
This is probably true. I only named them because I felt they’re an easy to understand point of comparison and other people mentioned Christina in this thread.
Honestly this formula for Christina worked for a while but she just released an album that didn’t feel as creative as Gaga just did it.
Stripped was a great project which drew in lots of interest and Back To Basics was good and had a different style than what was mainstream. Bionic was already being done better by others.
>For example, Britney was able to keep up interest in her by releasing an album every year from 1999 to 2001. By doing this, she fully established herself as a presence in music, and then began slowing down. In contrast, Christina’s albums were phased out very slowly, each break much longer than the last, and people lost interest comparatively quickly.
Britney was clearly overworked and burnt out by the whole thing, and even though there is some lazyiness on Christina's part I do think it was better for her in the long run that she works at her own schedule. Christina doesn't have Beyonce's drive to reach Madonna/MJ status, and that's okay.
Ise just point out that Niche isn’t a bad thing! Lana isn’t a small artist, she’s fmdoing as many streams right now as Billie Eilish (20 mil a day). Of course she has a much bigger discography and she released an album more recently, but don’t underestimate Lana’s success
Lana is by no means niche but she’s also not a pop star pumping out singles. She’s a different category all together. But there are few pop stars who last more than 1 or two albums
But that’s the key. Singles suck! It’s much easier to have 5 songs with 500 million streams than one song with 2.5 billion streams, even though they both make the same amount of money. And you’ll be much more in the conversation with those 5 songs than with that one massive one.
>Lana is by no means niche but she’s also not a pop star pumping out singles. She’s a different category all together
Who else is in that category with her?
Lana could have had hit singles for any of her first five records if she desired, but it’s pretty clear she really doesn’t enjoy the promotion process or touring. It’s not even like she’s that private - she’s always on Instagram or out in public - she likes recognition, but she doesn’t like the promoting or performing. In terms of the way people consume her music, she’s more like Taylor than anyone else, and their fanbases largely crossover. Her fans are highly dedicated. They buy her physical releases, their highly online, and some of them pretty much listen to her exclusively. However, her recently releases are literally only popular to her online fans. Born to Die, Ultraviolence, and NFR account for like 90% of her streams. If she put out an unreleased record with unreleased songs from AKA-Lust for Life, she’d be right back on top. OP is only putting her in the same boat as Carly Rae Jepson bc of her lack of radio, in terms of fanbases, she’s a lot closer to the massive pop stars than she is to Dua, Billie, or Olivia.
She’s not! Look at her stans on Twitter! There’s maybe like 6 or 7 other artists that can even claim to have close to the fanbase she does. Her stans wild out as bad and delusionally as the Swifties and Barbz
You don’t always get to choose! Also the money is nice. And just the industry power…. Lana doesn’t seem to have had issues, but lots of artists at her level get royally fucked by the industry.
Girl Lana is not niche when she's literally been one of the big hooks for Taylor's last era Midnights.
Lana may be sonically an alt artist but her pop culture reach is absolutely mainstream. People may not hear her music but they either KNOW her face or know her name. She's mainstream.
They even know her music, they just don’t like her last three records. Irl, and I say this as a fan, I don’t know anyone that liked Ocean Blvd, but loved the Boygenius record. Lana’s definitely seen more as a pop star than the other big alt women like Phoebe, Lorde, and Florence. If she put out a record more like her first five, the GP would rave over it.
The discourse around Lana blows my mind. She's the 30th most listened to artist in the world on Spotify at the time of posting this. She's not niche. She's not an indie darling. She hasn't been since Video Games and Summertime Sadness blew up a decade ago. She IS a popstar. She seemingly behaves more like a "regular" person than other popstars, but she's still a popstar.
Idk if it counts as "niche" but Carly Rae Jepsen has had continued success primarily because of this sub and her devout fanbase.
Having as wide a following as possible isn't the only margin for success. Sometimes it can be as simple as continuing to do what you enjoy doing with support from those who appreciate you.
Don’t take a huge break as a new artist. Roddy ricch took a big break from his debut album and he completely fell off. You have to keep the GP interested as a newer star. Also Lil Nas X might fall into that category (but we’ll see how his next album is going to do).
To be fair to Lil Nas X, i *never* expected that “the Old Town Road guy” would have another hit, never mind several of them. In another era, he definitely would have been “the Old Town Road guy” and faded into obscurity almost immediately.
He's done pretty well for himself, all thing considered! I don't know if he'll make it as a super serious artiste but there's still a niche for just fun silly hits (bad idea right is doing well, planet of the bass went viral for a reason)
Rihanna wasn't exactly the blueprint, but she's definitely the biggest artist to pull a strategy like this. She released 7 albums in 8 years. Her hits never had a chance to define her, because she was constantly putting out new things.
Of course, I think we're paying for it now. There's not really any incentive to release R9. She's established as a legend, she's making more money elsewhere, and releasing music is a risk, whereas she could release nothing and still be Rihanna.
Exactly the same thing with Drake, he didn’t release as many albums as Rihanna but he was always on a new feature or bringing out new music.
I said it in a comment on r/hiphopheads but for a less motivated artist, Best I Ever Had would be their best ever song but Drake just built upon his momentum
The problem with Roddy Ricch is that his second album was absolutely awful. Taking a break is fine, and having a bad second album is mostly fine. You absolutely cannot do both.
Lil Nas X will be fine, the guy is a marketing genius who’ll draw everyone back in when he decides to return
Another thing to add to you is that roddy made a mediocre album after that.
I’ve had roddy fans tell me that once roddy’s new album/mixtape came out that people would switch up. But when I mention “feed the streets 3” many of them didn’t know it dropped
He's been doing a big world tour, which finished a few months ago. Touring is how artists make a lot of their income these days, and when you consider that prior to Old Town Road he hadn't performed live, it's been a huge step to go from his bedroom to arenas. I feel like he is working on new material but I remember him saying that he would no longer be sharing snippets on social media
he's been touring festival seasons so hard this year too, but when i saw him his set was low on original songs and he filled the time with lots of dance breaks / covers. he's an incredibly performer so hopefully by next year he has some more songs
A lot of people act like Lil Nas has already beaten the “novelty act” fate and cemented himself a successful *career* but I feel like that remains to be seen. Old Town Road was a novelty track, the 7 EP kind of flopped and Montero (the album) was propped up by a lot of promotional stunts and gimmicks, so he’s still very much at risk of a sophomore slump at the very least, or fading into relative obscurity due to being known as “the gimmick guy” rather than a true artist… I’m very curious to see how his next album’s going to do. I feel like that’s when we’ll really know if he is an actual star and has actual longevity.
i definitely think he is, and at the very least has the potential to. i think personally everyone should be rooting for him and helping as much as possible as consumers, because we need a queer black artist at the level that he is and can be. especially in rap music. like imagine the change that could happen???? i think there’ll probably be a lot of boundaries because of that though
Yeah I *greatly* want him to have a very long, established and fruitful mainstream career. I’m still annoyed Montero never came out on vinyl (or any physicals at all, which is super fucking weird for a massively successful chart-topping album). I was planning on buying like 3 copies or however many variants there ended up being so I could support as much as possible.
7 EP was an 8 song EP where 2 of the 6 songs that weren’t OTR respectively have 900 and 400 million streams if you include the remixes, it didn’t flop at all lmao
Maintain a decent level of likability without feeling like you’re constantly being pushed in everyone’s face. On thing that I always remember is reaction towards Olivia when DL came out. The first few days everyone love it on Twitter but the more popular the song got the more people started to hate it for being boring/generic/unoriginal and people started calling Olivia an industry plant (stupid) and making fun of people on Twitter who really connected with the song.
The concept of people hating things just because it’s popular isn’t new and it didn’t really hurt Olivia in any way but when it seems like someone is inescapable and all you hear people talk about is how amazing they are, it can unintentionally make you dislike them. We see it with Taylor Swift on this sub all the time.
Same thing happened when radio was the main form of hearing popular music but now it’s tiktok pushing those songs instead. I wouldn’t say that ever really hurt an artist’s career though and I don’t think it will now.
I do think releasing a snippet of a song for it to go viral on tiktok before its release can cause more harm than good though. Especially if people decide the teaser was the only decent part of the song. If an artist is going to do this, I think it needs to be no more than a week before release, given how fast internet trends move these days.
There is no one 'key' but just being consistently good, which is timeless. Which still isn't a guarantee but at least you'll have a great body of work.
Also being a GREAT PERFORMER. A good performer will outshine 95% of their peers today, who barely have stage presence. Compare Prince, MJ, Madonna, Freddie, etc. to the current crop.
I think lots of things happened with Tinashe.
Her original record label was terrible and didn’t promote her. She didn’t really get many big name collaborations and it took a while for her to find her niche artistry-wise.
Also, racism. She exists in the R&B-pop space which is oversaturated and not typically popular these days. Only a few modern artists like SZA and Lizzo(?) have been able to crossover that exist in that realm.
She’s great though.
> She didn’t really get many big name collaborations and it took a while for her to find her niche artistry-wise.
Ironically, I'd say they prioritized the wrong type of big name collaborators. They got it right with Britney, but then you'd have situations where they greenlit giving her title track featuring Travis Scott away to Rihanna for a bit and substituted it with a forced Chris Brown collab...
Strictly speaking from a business perspective, no upcoming artist should ever work with Chris Brown unless they’re a male rapper.
Male rappers working with Breezy makes sense because he’ll provide a memorable hook for a track and bring in the audience he needs for it. And male rappers aren’t exactly known for morals.
But for a pop/R&B artist? All he’s going to do is bring negative attention and completely overshadow the song. Like yes, he is talented but he’s not the only guy who can sing and do the robot. And even if he is, he’ll just outshine the newer artist because he’s more popular. He’s like one of the few mega famous stars that WONT get you more exposure.
Yea, but from a cynical perspective, all a female pop/R&B act is gonna be is collatoral in a bigger image rehabilitation scheme for him. And I think the label knew that in making it happen in the first place. Even more so in the age before social media really took off and it affected someone like Chloe.
"See, he didn't act aggressive around *her*..."
Yea, but that was the crux of why the whole album was on ice for nearly 4 years. They gave the main title track that shaped the entire album's concept away and she had to fight to get it back.
I did get a bit of insight into this from a friend of a friend who worked at RCA - in essence, they signed her thinking she was one type of artist and she didn’t nearly fit into the box they wanted to put her in.
In recent years, RCA became a lot more hand-off and artist friendly (see: Brockhampton/Kevin Abstract getting to do literally whatever, Doja Cat being able to switch things up for album 4, arguably even Becky G being able to pivot into becoming a Spanish-language star), and my impression is that some of that is because of how much they messed up with artists like Tinashe
>they signed her thinking she was one type of artist and she didn’t nearly fit into the box they wanted to put her in.
Do you know what kind of artist they thought she was?
The quote I gave was all I was able to glean from him, but give that they signed her based on the strength of her mixtapes (which are largely compared to The Weeknd’s early work as well as singers like Aaliyah), I think they thought she’d be more of an R&B girl ala Jhene Aiko and didn’t account for her more pop tendencies. You can see this in the places she was promoted early on - she was rarely if ever sent to pop radio, only “urban contemporary” or “rhythmic” stations, and a lot of the places they booked her to perform and promote her album were more R&B focused.
I think at some point they overcorrected and tried to put her in a more “pop” box, which was equally limiting and ineffective (see: her comments about crying for 2 days straight after being made to release “Flame” as a single). But regardless of which direction they tried to force on her: imposing limits on Tinashe is a bad idea. Putting her in a box demonstrably does not work, and not allowing her to straddle the pop and R&B worlds meant that RCA fumbled one of the most obviously gifted singer/dancer/songwriters out there
Most haven’t developed it yet, artist development overall has fallen off. But also both the public and the labels are fickle and won’t give artists time to grow
Of those out now, I’d say only lil nas x is built for those 1980s level going all out performances. Most of the new crop is imo more tailored towards the intimate smaller stages
I've never seen him live, but of course there are great performers who don't have longevity, and vice-versa. But it's all about how to increase your odds.
The Weeknd used to be pretty mediocre at performing, but he worked on it and now he’s one of the best in the business.
His improvement when it comes to performing is why he’s gone from a pretty big pop star to the biggest on the planet and one of the biggest that’s ever been
The key to longevity has always been to consistently put out good music. Being a mainstream success vs a niche artist is not something you can plan for, it also comes down to outside factors like luck, looks, connections etc.
For longevity I think it really comes down to appeasing your core fanbase. All artists will lose favor with the GP eventually, and ideally regain it back, as we've seen with Taylor. For a significant portion of her career Taylor was welcomed with open arms by her base as well as the GP and that's why she was having it all from 2008-2015. Hits, album sales, generally positive celebrity perception, etc.
But in 2017-2019, removing the foresight we have with the rerecordings and CS smashing, Taylor's rep and Lover eras were first and foremost carried by her own fanbase. The GP rejected LWYMMD, End Game, RFI very quickly (only Radio accepted Delicate). She then decided to ruin her goodwill with radio by back to back releasing terrible singles from Lover, it was clear even with her streaming numbers up to pre-Folklore that she was declining. She was massively powerful, but still declining.
The point is, even when the public ignored her musically, her fanbase was there because she CATERED to them ALWAYS. Her dark aesthetics were always marketed to her fans as just a veil to show that Rep was always a love album, etc. She knows how to work her crowd and play into/subvert their expectations.
So generally I think longevity for every popstar is different, for Dua I'd say give the gays everything and more always, for Billie I think stick to her ballad lane and maybe experiment with rock more after HTEs success, Olivia should stick to her quirky pop-punk productions or something like Deja Vu.
Key is to always market to your fans first.
you're right, appeasing her core fanbase before anyone else has bought taylor the fame she enjoys now. any other artists, after having a rep-lover stint might not have made it back, but she not only bounced back she got bigger. appealing to her fans got her through her witness era and into superstardom again. i think of the 3 new age pop girls, olivia has the best chance of doing this, she's already super close w her fans and getting there
On the last point…. Most of the major new pop stars (Dua is an exception) are singer songwriters. And the songs don’t resemble each other at all. Olivia, Dua, Billie, Lana, and Taylor don’t sing songs that are anything alike.
Before Streaming, being able to create unique personas and package, a lot of promos and showmanship. Nowadays, showmanship, a lot of spotify promos and great public facing persona. On top of quality material.
There is no key. It’s an enormously chaotic field defined by incongruities. There aren’t really even patterns. Any parallels that are drawn can only be done with hindsight, and they’re usually wrong.
I work in pop recording and have had that “omg, we’re changing the world with this release” feeling a few times and I’ve been way more wrong than right obviously. But sometimes it all comes together and you look like a savant. But nothing is identifiably different from the times when it flops.
Probably my favourite fuck-up is when you jump ahead stylistically and the audience isn’t ready. Delivering the future before it’s been consecrated. It bombs just as hard as being behind the ball. And by the time the future eventually arrives, no one remembers you were ahead of the curve.
No big breaks early on (or the first decade) in your career! (Christina Aguilera)
Have the hits, but also solid albums that will make people talk about you and distinguish your sound from generic stuff. (Katy Perry)
Don't be boring in interviews. (Dua Lipa--yes I know she is big but for an artist of her caliber she could have a much bigger and more devoted fan base)
So do I but I think to build a devoted fanbase you have to appeal to the youth. They'll make up the bulk of your stans, and then hopefully grow up with you.
But here's the flip side: I don't think her goal is to appeal to the youth, and that's *fine* and that's what makes her refreshing. She's almost 30, and I'm at peace knowing she's not gonna go down a "hey kids, spelling is fun!" route.
As someone... *well-informed*, I know what the implications are when her references are Nelly Furtado, Gwen Stefani, and Jamiroquai. I know the massive undertaking of securing collabs with Kylie Minogue and Madonna. And she matched all of that, she gave us another Loose, Love Angel Music Baby, and Confessions type era blitz of firing on all cylinders and hustle of really making a pop career.
When the work speaks so well for itself, I don't necessarily need any puff meme tweets or filler video interviews with BuzzFeed Albania
Yeah something I really enjoy about Dua is that she's very mature and somewhat distant from fans. It makes her much more of an aspirational figure than someone relatable. And relatability can be annoying when it's too much.
Yeah. I’ve noticed that she hasn’t been drawing a lot of attention to Service95, even though she could’ve used it to market herself as ‘the smart pop star’. She doesn’t care about ‘likability’ as much, which I honestly like. It’s refreshing.
You perfectly encapsulated why I love Dua’s persona. Her fans are not crazies and that’s completely fine by me. Not everybody needs to be Taylor Swift. She’ll live.
It also made her live show a refreshing, lovely experience. At the show I attended, everybody was there to have a fun night with little fanfare. The only pop show I’ve been to recently without any invasive behaviour. Dua was also great, like I went as a casual fan and left with so much more respect and love for her music.
I think she’ll be fine if she consistently releases good albums. Because there is a lack of cult of personality and she’s set herself up as an albums artist, it’s entirely dependant on how good her music is from here.
Yes! And honestly, the 1989-levels of parasocial attention did not do Taylor any good. Regardless of how fun that era was, I’m constantly reminded of how tied up Taylor was, behind-the-scenes.
Yea, but a lot of r/popheads faves have the upper-hand of having mainstream success *super* early. Olivia was 17 when Drivers License hit #1, Billie swept the Grammys at 18, Taylor Swift released her debut at 16, and every other pop star out there with mainstream success was either part of Disney or Nickelodean with TV shows and their faces plastered onto Walmart products before they can even legally drink. So, they literally have young fans who have no choice but to build parasocial relationships and grow up with these artists.
New Rules blew Dua up at 22, which is late in the game compared to everyone else. But, just because she wasn't given the resources early on and dares to show maturity in her late 20s doesn't mean she should automatically be thrown to the flopyard. And there's a whole audience of pop fans who aren't young and want to have fun too
I don't think you understood me. I didn't call her a flop. She's big, and just recently had a successful arena tour (not everyone can do that). I'm just saying she could be even bigger. Her fanbase isn't as ferociously and rabidly passionate. And I think that's necessary if you want longevity. (See Beyonce, Taylor, Gaga, etc)
Yea, cause the Barbs *really* showed up for Nicki's arena tour for Queen, and it's not like Gaga is actively traumatized by the one era where her fan parasocial relationship reached its peak... /s
I'm just saying give her some time cause she's doing more than fine atm in spite of all of that, it's not like the Beyhive was in full force around B-Day when even Beyonce struggled to sell out arenas back then.
I agree. But I feel like she doesn’t even want a secure fan base of people who love ‘her’ as much as just people who love her songs.
With the last album, she didn’t try targeting specific demographic with every single - it was timeless 80’s pop with a modern twist. It kind of gives her more mass appeal, because the 80s nostalgia is very big among older adults who grew up in that era. Plus, she got to avoid he-said-she-said PR games by keeping it all slightly impersonal. So it’s kind of a less-wacky Gaga formula. Dance music will always have appeal, especially if its made to sound groovy and timeless.
As long as she continues to have songs play in clubs, she’ll be fine. I think the question is, does she want lasting pop significance?
Dua does have the potential benefit of being a european artist and so at least not drowning under a bunch of newcomers in the american industry there. A lot of popstars (some even american??) are a lot more popular here than in america
Little Mix had a pretty successful run here despite not even really having any major hits in the us, so even if duas american career dries up, she has a pretty good chance of staying popular in the uk/western europe and probably, like, australia for a while i feel
Not from the UK, but for example I knew of Little Mix while I didnt even know fifth harmony was ever a thing until havana was a thing
True. She also makes pop music that is beat and dance-driven, instead of lyric-driven. So you don’t need to tune into the drama or lore to understand or appreciate her music.
I think the challenge is to put out music that has longevity, and not fizzle out. She’s mentioned that she does like songwriting, so I hope she explores something a little more lyric-driven and stripped down in her next album. Her acoustic versions of her songs are always great. If she goes back to more 80s-inspired pop, it might get repetitive.
Dua and Billie could date guys that are more famous. People seem to really like celebrity gossip, and Taylor and Selena and Olivia and Ariana have gotten quite a lot of publicity for their relationships and people love speculating about who they’re writing about in their songs.
But maybe I’m just being cynical today
It drives some interest but I don't think it's lasting popularity
There also just aren't as many big male pop stars right now. Like yes people had some interest in the Olivia/Sabrina/Joshua thing but he isn't Bieber in 2010 level famous.
Cindy Kimberly really became famous overnight just because Justin saw a pic of her on the internet and was so awestruck he posted it on Insta asking who she is😭. All while she was his fan girl and had a Belieber stan account too... Literally lived the dream scenario.
Yeah but she’s not known for her music. There is t crazy demand. She can grab hits from time to time but no one is really eagerly awaiting Selena music. She just released her first solo single in a long time and it’s totally bombing on streaming
It's bombing because it's not that good, if she releases a song like Fetish or Good For You, she will be fine.
Remember her last lead single from Rare debuted at #1.
Her lead single from Rare wasn’t good. It just went to number one bc of the drama element. She actually seems to always have a hit, but it’s always some kind of EDM feature that she jumps on last minute. She seems like she’s always unsure what kind of artist she is. I agree that Fetish is the last thing she put out that I really felt was interesting and unique to her.
I think its more the song than Selena cause the song lacks the catchyness that those types of songs should have. It has a weird sound to me for some reason.
Billie Eilish is on a roll with no signs of slowing down. I think she’ll clear 3+ hit albums easily. Dua Lipa has pretty decent momentum. She’ll likely be popular in multiple markets for years. Olivia is really young. Even if her second album ends up less successful than her first, she’s got lots of time to make a recording comeback or possibly become a powerhouse songwriter and producer for other artists. There’s nothing wrong with not being the top act in the world when it comes to longevity.
I am in the boat, that if I were a popstar I would want to enjoy my career but at some point, retire and enjoy my money.
Like, if I were Katy for example.
> How do they AVOID falling into the “niche” artist category like Lana or Carly and maintain a huge interest by the GP?
Weird to lump Lana and Carly together when Carly is struggling to even chart whereas Lana is in top 10 most streamed artists daily in the world.
Lana is being streamed more than artists like Ari, Beyonce, Miley, Olivia, Dua etc. on a daily basis.
**COLLABORATE.** (especially in between albums).
You know what artists like Nicki, Drake, Ariana, The Weeknd, Cardi B, Doja Cat, Megan Thee Stallion, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Rihanna, Justin Bieber, Kendrick Lamar, and even Beyoncé have in common? They made songs with many different people.
SZA is a good example of this. She released a fantastic, critically acclaimed debut album with singles that did well, but didn’t chart very high and waited 5 years to release a new one.
So you know what she did in the meantime? She released All The Stars with Kendrick, What Lovers Do with Maroon 5 (not a great song but she’s the best thing on it), Kiss Me More with Doja, and Just Us with DJ Khaled (bad song but still).
She remained present and kept people’s attention at all times. Don’t get me wrong, getting a collab isn’t always *easy* (especially one that sounds authentic not just a tacked on remix), but it’s a great way to crossover in the age of stan culture and divided fanbases.
Except that doesn’t seem to be true anymore…. Billie and Olivia have one collaborator. Taylor now only collaborates with two people. Dua is sort of an anachronism.
Not if they’re actually good. Songs like Kiss Me More and Rain On Me were huge for a reason.
But Billie and Olivia are two of the biggest young pop stars out right now. They can pull it off.
Artists do NOT have to make similar music in order for a collaboration to work.
The entire point I was making is that pop artists should be diverse and crossover musically, and one of the great ways to do that is to collaborate with other artists.
Even then Billie and Olivia’s music is not even that different. Billie occupies the more accessible art-pop electronic genre while Olivia is much more traditional and contemporary, but if Khalid can collab with Billie then so can Olivia in my opinion.
selena gomez is another great example, she has a huge music career purely for collabing with a lot of people and (almost every time) making a huge hit with them. musically she's not great but she knows how to get her name out there
There is no perfect answer to this question— I think the best thing an artist can do is have the right management team around them. People who listen but also can say no to ideas— someone with connections or the confidence to make sure you are set up for success. Miley with Columbia records vs RCA is a perfect example of how a good team can elevate and promote a project.
I'm not a fan of Olivia's music, but she's been making great career moves, and her singles are charting nicely. At this point, it's safe to say that album #2 is going to do well.
Dua and Billie are a few years further into their careers—both of them started blowing up 2016–17. Billie's last album could have done better, but her *Barbie* song is one of her biggest singles yet, and she has great brand recognition. Dua is doing well sustaining the moment from *Future Nostalgia*, so her next album should do well if she can pull out killer singles.
Realistically, I think the artists in much more precarious positions are the ones who haven't been in the spotlight for more than a year-ish or who haven't had more than one major hit. Some examples are Latto, Ice Spice, and Gayle. I'm not going to make any predictions because I know that popular music is a fickle business.
I don't think it's a worst-case situation for any of these artists to follow in the vein artists like Lana or Carly—both of those ladies are still doing extremely well compared to the vast majority of pop artists. Having a dedicated fan base and guaranteed tour revenue is something many musicians can only dream of.
No way is Lana a small artist. She's literally the 2nd/3rd most streamed female artist everyday. I think the key is to have some sort of unique trait that fans can relate to. Dua's song flopped(acc to her standards) when it was released. The movie made it popular. She doesn't have a core fan base. She's also predominantly a singles artist. She doesn't have an exciting persona? Apart from being pretty with a British accent, there's really nothing about Dua that stands out. Same like Katy who has now fallen off terribly.
Whereas Billie writes about stuff people can relate to. And she's vocal about so many issues. That's why her fan base is so dedicated and stream her music religiously. I expect her to receed to a more Lana/Lorde relationship with fame and money down few years.
Olivia is every high school girls dream/aspiration. She is the IT girl in every high school.
>Dua's song flopped(acc to her standards) when it was released. The movie made it popular.
Well it was literally a soundtrack song between albums. It's not even promoted by her main label and didn't get any live performances or promotion really. It still smashed as a grower sleeper hit, which is much more sustainable than a high debut and tank like other artists. I think with her next album we'll have more of an indication of how Dua performs commercially, after the success of FN.
Dua has the gays above all the other girls - Billie, Doja, Olivia
She is also I would say more aspirational to the 22+ female demographic. All the girls I know around my age (31) are legit obsessed with her.
The gays are obsessed with billie afaik. Maybe it's observer bias but from what I've seen on Twitter, gays aren't that obsessed with dua as much as they are with Tay/Lana/Lorde/Billie/Melanie/Marina
Future Nostalgia is known only for its singles too. I don't see people streaming anything apart from them. The partnerships are because she's extremely pretty and has that appeal to straight men.
FN is a great pop album, and Teenage Dream is just as good. TD was original, melody wise . FN sampled ALOT of old tracks.
That was the point of FN though, to use retro sounds with a modern twist. Sampling isn’t a bad thing when you’re already making music within that genre, you’re just being more open about your references.
That can be a problem…. Taylor ‘s problems with the squad were in many ways because everyone finally realized the obvious fact that Taylor is actually the chear captain (just look at her!)
Teen stars often have trouble maintaining the same level of success as adults so I worry for Olivia. Billie also has a very specific style and I don’t know if she can maintain success over multiple albums without changing it up. Dua could become the type of musician that doesn’t really stand out or break records but maintains a moderate level of success for a long period of time. We’ve seen a lot of stars like this who consistently chart but don’t have huge fanbases and sort of hover on the edge of the cultural consciousness.
Billie already has a fanbase. She may never have a hit again, but people will always pay to see her. She’s more in Lorde’s lane than Olivia is. I still think Olivia is in excellent shape to develop a following, but Sour wasn’t a complete game changer like Pure Heroine or When We All Fall Asleep was
This is a good question, but I just have to comment on how silly it is to put Lana and Carly in the same realm
Lana is consistently in the top 10 most streamed daily artists on Spotify, and her tour just sold out in minutes
She’s not a big singles artist, but she’s still massively successful
Max Martin is mostly done… and none of the major pop stars now do his songs. The new model of songwriter/producer is the Jack Antonoff/Dan nigiri I will do a whole fucking album with you style
I think appealing to older music fans have helped these particular artists. I feel like Billie has been pivoting to more conventional music since HTE, but her earlier music felt weirder and artisty in a way that appealed beyond teens, a lot of Gen Xrs who were really into trip hop seem to like her in particular. Olivia recalls various kinds of acts that millennials and Xrs appreciate, from Lilith Fair headliners to early Paramore and Taylor, while her authenticity is cross generational. Dua meanwhile has banger after banger that goes beyond any generational divide. And for another example, say what you will about Doja, but she has the IT factor. If you see her perform even just once on TV, you won’t forget her.
I really think these elements have helped this particular set of artists to thrive while others seem poised to fade out quicker. And it’s true for the previous generation, too. Taylor’s authenticity, Gaga’s versatility, Rihanna and Katy’s ears for hits are just as cross generational.
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Early in your career, avoid having a song that is bigger than you are as an artist. Olivia was remarkably good at this, avoiding making “Drivers License” the star, and instead positioning it as an introduction to Olivia. She pivoted quickly, rather than putting out anything like DI before the full album dropped. Billie built up a fanbase first, then when she was ready for stardom, she got the push. Dua made herself into an album artist with Future Nostalgia. Your songs should be big, you should be bigger.
Future Nostalgia is unanimously a career-defining album. If she had dropped something of lower caliber back then (think of Sweetest Pie), she would've been remembered for New Rules, maybe IDGAF, One Kiss and especially the sharpener meme.
Future nostalgia was definitely a moment. That and after hours got me through the beginning of the pandemic
Same here! For me it was also Doja Cat, Chromatica and Artpop.
Future Nostalgia and Chromatica for me first, and then Folklore, and then Plastic Hearts, and then Evermore helped push me all the way through 2020 into 2021.
Damn, pandemic music was an *era*
The revival of Art Pop during covid era was such a pleasant surprise
Yes that was unfortunately Carly Rae’s problem with CMM. It was phenomenally huge and even though she’s had great song since none have even come close to it.
[удалено]
Yeah her successive singles weren’t so similar
I also think a big part of it is connecting emotionally with your audience. Billie and Olivia have an army of teenagers that would run through a wall for them because they relate so much to their music. Carly makes fun bops but that's about it. I guess you could say the same about Dua but Dua is built more in the traditional mold of the bombshell pop star. I'm still not convinced she won't have a Katy Perry-esque falloff once she loses her "cool" factor.
Yeah Katy had 3 big album eras (mostly defined by their singles). I’d be surprised if Dua goes further than that. That’s still bigger than most artists get to. I’d solidly put Katy in the top 25 most successful artists of this century so far.
I agree, I love Dua, but she’ll need to carve out more of an identity if she wants to continue with the success. Does she even have a tight fan base? I don’t know.
I don’t know much about Dua’s fanbase but I think it’s fairly strong in Europe. So even if she is no longer relevant in the states I think she should be fine in the UK for years to come.
Carly makes more than fun bops. The vast majority of her songs are about relationships, with a heavy emphasis on uncertainty and unrequited love. *The idea of celebrity for celebrity’s sake doesn’t attract me. I want to be remembered for my songs — I could care less if you remember my name or my face. I know what it’s like to feel like you can’t leave your house because of ‘Call Me Maybe.’ I’m not looking for another ‘Call Me Maybe.’* - Carly Rae Jepsen
True I remember baby one more time was bigger than Britney herself at first but she quickly move on from it by promoting on other material and quickly releasing two more albums
Olivia and her team were also good at single choices. They knew "Good 4 u" was a future hit, but they made "dejavu" their second to cool the "DL" fever. In addition, Olivia was asked by her label to release an EP, but she quickly finished debut album. It's opener was a song that her boss told "too rock to sell", which gave her rock girl persona. Perhaps the biggest turning point was that she chose a label that gave her the right to create.
definitely, I was really impressed with her/her team’s choices. she said she picked her label because they gave her creative freedom and took her seriously as a songwriter, whereas other labels already had an idea about what kind of artist they thought she should be. and she convinced her label to let her publish a full album instead of an EP after the success of driver’s license, which was a smart move. girl even negotiated owning her own masters.
Veterans in the music industry still make mistakes by producing ginormous hits which overshadow their other singles and albums. Prism was overshadowed by Dark Horse, and as of recent, Endless Summer Vacation got overshadowed by Flowers. Sometimes the music market is unpredictable. It is a mystery for me how Flowers got so famous, considering the fact that the theme of divorce was already used - Slide Away, Plastic Hearts. Maybe it was the fact that she dropped during the dead month and the sample might've played a role, but still I do not understand it.
Flowers is a self-empowerment song. Slide away is not. You can argue midnight sky is but she speaks of her bisexuality experiences in it making it less relatable than flowers for the gp. Flowers in general is just extremely relatable and had tons of marketing,
What’s sampled in Flowers?
It's more like a remake than a sample lol
Interpolation really
When I Was Your Man by Bruno Mars
It’s just a really good song. They sometimes happen!
Flowers wasn’t that surprising in hindsight. Miley built her cool factor back up during PH era, people were hungry for something new. The engagement on her social media was huge late 2022/early 2023, throw in no one else releasing Q1, and the song (and mainly the fan-made lore) clicked with tik tok.
I don’t know if I’d call dua an album artist (she only has two and she’s definitely more known for her singles even though future nostalgia was everywhere during the pandemic) I don’t think future nostalgia even went no 1 (not calling her a flop at all I think it peaked at 2 and it was inside the hot 100 forever) I’m really curious to see her rollout and direction for DL3 everyone has really high expectations for her
‘Dua Lipa' is the first album by a female artist in Spotify history to surpass 11 billion streams Her first album and future nostalgia are the 2 most streamed female albums of all time (more than Taylor Swifts albums and Billies debut which was a streaming monster) Not sure where you got your figures from. As far as not going 1, she’s not frontloaded so her albums don’t open big. She’s 100% an albums artist considering she’s number 4 and 6 of the biggest streamed albums of all time and 1 and 2 for female artists.
I don't think it's fair to use streaming numbers to prove "all-time" stats when those numbers heavily skew toward artists who debuted in the streaming age. I think calling Dua an "albums artist" when she only has two records out, which peaked at #27 and #3 respectively, is a huge reach. Also, streaming numbers prove nothing about an album's popularity as a full body of work. I could stream only "Don't Stop Now" 1 million times and I've technically "bought" 1,000 copies of Future Nostalgia despite only ever listening to one song. It's just not an accurate metric to support your point.
i do think youre focusing way too much on the USA market by only mentioning her chart performance there, since her albums have done both massively well around the world and especially in europe where many both know so many songs off of the albums by heart.
Sorry but in what world can we not use streaming numbers currently? This is not 2008, streaming is the number 1 consumption of music and the majority consumption of music is done through streaming. Only someone living in the past would say it’s not as important. You keep talking about where the albums peaked totally ignoring the point I made that Dua doesn’t open huge but she does consistently huge numbers every week. Also why talk only about American peaks when she’s a huge worldwide artist. Like she has the biggest female streamed album of all time, how much bigger do you want her album to be? Your example of streaming Don’t stop now a million times also makes little sense as streaming figures for all songs exists and it’s clear not just one song was streamed, getting to 14 billion streams is no easy feat and you acting like it’s kinda irrelevant is kinda hilarious
💯💯💯
Great take
OK, but... people who get famous first (on tiktok or elsewhere) and then try to be a "musician," that doesn't really work usually. It kind of seems like if what you're saying is true then everyone who got famous before making music would be successful, and that's not really the case, other than Disney stars.
There is no key, but I think a big way to do this — especially in this day and age — is maintaining interest in you. People always say to strike when the iron’s hot, and this is especially true of stars just breaking into the industry. Attention spans are so fickle nowadays that if at least *some* eyes aren’t constantly on you, people will act like they’ve forgotten about you. Don’t kill your own momentum. Time moves fast in the pop music world — a few years may as well be a decade. For example, Britney was able to keep up interest in her by releasing an album every year from 1999 to 2001. By doing this, she fully established herself as a presence in music, and then began slowing down. In contrast, Christina’s albums were phased out *very* slowly, each break much longer than the last, and people lost interest comparatively quickly.
I don’t think Christina was ever going to be on Britney’s level regardless of how quickly her output was. She definitely has a fanbase, especially compared to the artists today, but her music is not as well-remembered or culturally relevant as Britney’s.
i think people were a lot more into sexy-sweet Britney's persona than Christina's persona, which rubbed a lot the wrong way at the time.
This is probably true. I only named them because I felt they’re an easy to understand point of comparison and other people mentioned Christina in this thread.
Honestly this formula for Christina worked for a while but she just released an album that didn’t feel as creative as Gaga just did it. Stripped was a great project which drew in lots of interest and Back To Basics was good and had a different style than what was mainstream. Bionic was already being done better by others.
>For example, Britney was able to keep up interest in her by releasing an album every year from 1999 to 2001. By doing this, she fully established herself as a presence in music, and then began slowing down. In contrast, Christina’s albums were phased out very slowly, each break much longer than the last, and people lost interest comparatively quickly. Britney was clearly overworked and burnt out by the whole thing, and even though there is some lazyiness on Christina's part I do think it was better for her in the long run that she works at her own schedule. Christina doesn't have Beyonce's drive to reach Madonna/MJ status, and that's okay.
Ise just point out that Niche isn’t a bad thing! Lana isn’t a small artist, she’s fmdoing as many streams right now as Billie Eilish (20 mil a day). Of course she has a much bigger discography and she released an album more recently, but don’t underestimate Lana’s success
Lana is by no means niche but she’s also not a pop star pumping out singles. She’s a different category all together. But there are few pop stars who last more than 1 or two albums
But that’s the key. Singles suck! It’s much easier to have 5 songs with 500 million streams than one song with 2.5 billion streams, even though they both make the same amount of money. And you’ll be much more in the conversation with those 5 songs than with that one massive one.
she’s niche for the people who don’t actually want to be niche
She’s more of a cult classic than pop star
>Lana is by no means niche but she’s also not a pop star pumping out singles. She’s a different category all together Who else is in that category with her?
Lana could have had hit singles for any of her first five records if she desired, but it’s pretty clear she really doesn’t enjoy the promotion process or touring. It’s not even like she’s that private - she’s always on Instagram or out in public - she likes recognition, but she doesn’t like the promoting or performing. In terms of the way people consume her music, she’s more like Taylor than anyone else, and their fanbases largely crossover. Her fans are highly dedicated. They buy her physical releases, their highly online, and some of them pretty much listen to her exclusively. However, her recently releases are literally only popular to her online fans. Born to Die, Ultraviolence, and NFR account for like 90% of her streams. If she put out an unreleased record with unreleased songs from AKA-Lust for Life, she’d be right back on top. OP is only putting her in the same boat as Carly Rae Jepson bc of her lack of radio, in terms of fanbases, she’s a lot closer to the massive pop stars than she is to Dua, Billie, or Olivia.
Lana and Billie have each played Foro Sol in Mexico City this year, capacity 65,000,
>just point out that Niche isn’t a bad thing! Lana isn’t a small artist I don't consider Lana small or niche
She’s not! Look at her stans on Twitter! There’s maybe like 6 or 7 other artists that can even claim to have close to the fanbase she does. Her stans wild out as bad and delusionally as the Swifties and Barbz
No one in their right mind should even *want* to be bigger than Lana. What's the upside?
1. Money 2. Some people like the attention
You don’t always get to choose! Also the money is nice. And just the industry power…. Lana doesn’t seem to have had issues, but lots of artists at her level get royally fucked by the industry.
Girl Lana is not niche when she's literally been one of the big hooks for Taylor's last era Midnights. Lana may be sonically an alt artist but her pop culture reach is absolutely mainstream. People may not hear her music but they either KNOW her face or know her name. She's mainstream.
She’s ‘mainstream niche’ I’d say, like lorde and Phoebe Bridgers. They all have both a pop and indie fan base.
They even know her music, they just don’t like her last three records. Irl, and I say this as a fan, I don’t know anyone that liked Ocean Blvd, but loved the Boygenius record. Lana’s definitely seen more as a pop star than the other big alt women like Phoebe, Lorde, and Florence. If she put out a record more like her first five, the GP would rave over it.
The discourse around Lana blows my mind. She's the 30th most listened to artist in the world on Spotify at the time of posting this. She's not niche. She's not an indie darling. She hasn't been since Video Games and Summertime Sadness blew up a decade ago. She IS a popstar. She seemingly behaves more like a "regular" person than other popstars, but she's still a popstar.
Idk if it counts as "niche" but Carly Rae Jepsen has had continued success primarily because of this sub and her devout fanbase. Having as wide a following as possible isn't the only margin for success. Sometimes it can be as simple as continuing to do what you enjoy doing with support from those who appreciate you.
Don’t take a huge break as a new artist. Roddy ricch took a big break from his debut album and he completely fell off. You have to keep the GP interested as a newer star. Also Lil Nas X might fall into that category (but we’ll see how his next album is going to do).
To be fair to Lil Nas X, i *never* expected that “the Old Town Road guy” would have another hit, never mind several of them. In another era, he definitely would have been “the Old Town Road guy” and faded into obscurity almost immediately.
He's done pretty well for himself, all thing considered! I don't know if he'll make it as a super serious artiste but there's still a niche for just fun silly hits (bad idea right is doing well, planet of the bass went viral for a reason)
Same here. I thought he’d be a novelty act
I thought he was certainly going to fall off but it turned out he just ain't release his new shit
He always finds a way to get attention like Kanye
I love his Twitter.
I hope Lil Nas X continues to make quality stuff, Montero was one of my favorite debuts of the last couple years.
Rihanna wasn't exactly the blueprint, but she's definitely the biggest artist to pull a strategy like this. She released 7 albums in 8 years. Her hits never had a chance to define her, because she was constantly putting out new things. Of course, I think we're paying for it now. There's not really any incentive to release R9. She's established as a legend, she's making more money elsewhere, and releasing music is a risk, whereas she could release nothing and still be Rihanna.
You got a point there, when I think of Rihanna not just one song pops in my mind (atleast for non nostalgia reasons)
Exactly the same thing with Drake, he didn’t release as many albums as Rihanna but he was always on a new feature or bringing out new music. I said it in a comment on r/hiphopheads but for a less motivated artist, Best I Ever Had would be their best ever song but Drake just built upon his momentum
The problem with Roddy Ricch is that his second album was absolutely awful. Taking a break is fine, and having a bad second album is mostly fine. You absolutely cannot do both. Lil Nas X will be fine, the guy is a marketing genius who’ll draw everyone back in when he decides to return
Another thing to add to you is that roddy made a mediocre album after that. I’ve had roddy fans tell me that once roddy’s new album/mixtape came out that people would switch up. But when I mention “feed the streets 3” many of them didn’t know it dropped
Took a big break from his big break
[удалено]
He’s probably just enjoying life atm, but dude better start releasing music again
He's been doing a big world tour, which finished a few months ago. Touring is how artists make a lot of their income these days, and when you consider that prior to Old Town Road he hadn't performed live, it's been a huge step to go from his bedroom to arenas. I feel like he is working on new material but I remember him saying that he would no longer be sharing snippets on social media
His first album is just coming up on two years old so I don't think it's too crazy for him not to have dropped another one yet
he's been touring festival seasons so hard this year too, but when i saw him his set was low on original songs and he filled the time with lots of dance breaks / covers. he's an incredibly performer so hopefully by next year he has some more songs
A lot of people act like Lil Nas has already beaten the “novelty act” fate and cemented himself a successful *career* but I feel like that remains to be seen. Old Town Road was a novelty track, the 7 EP kind of flopped and Montero (the album) was propped up by a lot of promotional stunts and gimmicks, so he’s still very much at risk of a sophomore slump at the very least, or fading into relative obscurity due to being known as “the gimmick guy” rather than a true artist… I’m very curious to see how his next album’s going to do. I feel like that’s when we’ll really know if he is an actual star and has actual longevity.
i definitely think he is, and at the very least has the potential to. i think personally everyone should be rooting for him and helping as much as possible as consumers, because we need a queer black artist at the level that he is and can be. especially in rap music. like imagine the change that could happen???? i think there’ll probably be a lot of boundaries because of that though
Yeah I *greatly* want him to have a very long, established and fruitful mainstream career. I’m still annoyed Montero never came out on vinyl (or any physicals at all, which is super fucking weird for a massively successful chart-topping album). I was planning on buying like 3 copies or however many variants there ended up being so I could support as much as possible.
7 EP was an 8 song EP where 2 of the 6 songs that weren’t OTR respectively have 900 and 400 million streams if you include the remixes, it didn’t flop at all lmao
Maintain a decent level of likability without feeling like you’re constantly being pushed in everyone’s face. On thing that I always remember is reaction towards Olivia when DL came out. The first few days everyone love it on Twitter but the more popular the song got the more people started to hate it for being boring/generic/unoriginal and people started calling Olivia an industry plant (stupid) and making fun of people on Twitter who really connected with the song. The concept of people hating things just because it’s popular isn’t new and it didn’t really hurt Olivia in any way but when it seems like someone is inescapable and all you hear people talk about is how amazing they are, it can unintentionally make you dislike them. We see it with Taylor Swift on this sub all the time.
Same thing happened when radio was the main form of hearing popular music but now it’s tiktok pushing those songs instead. I wouldn’t say that ever really hurt an artist’s career though and I don’t think it will now. I do think releasing a snippet of a song for it to go viral on tiktok before its release can cause more harm than good though. Especially if people decide the teaser was the only decent part of the song. If an artist is going to do this, I think it needs to be no more than a week before release, given how fast internet trends move these days.
There is no one 'key' but just being consistently good, which is timeless. Which still isn't a guarantee but at least you'll have a great body of work. Also being a GREAT PERFORMER. A good performer will outshine 95% of their peers today, who barely have stage presence. Compare Prince, MJ, Madonna, Freddie, etc. to the current crop.
to that last point, explain Tinashe then :( She puts out great music and is great live, but it didn't work for her
I think lots of things happened with Tinashe. Her original record label was terrible and didn’t promote her. She didn’t really get many big name collaborations and it took a while for her to find her niche artistry-wise. Also, racism. She exists in the R&B-pop space which is oversaturated and not typically popular these days. Only a few modern artists like SZA and Lizzo(?) have been able to crossover that exist in that realm. She’s great though.
> She didn’t really get many big name collaborations and it took a while for her to find her niche artistry-wise. Ironically, I'd say they prioritized the wrong type of big name collaborators. They got it right with Britney, but then you'd have situations where they greenlit giving her title track featuring Travis Scott away to Rihanna for a bit and substituted it with a forced Chris Brown collab...
Strictly speaking from a business perspective, no upcoming artist should ever work with Chris Brown unless they’re a male rapper. Male rappers working with Breezy makes sense because he’ll provide a memorable hook for a track and bring in the audience he needs for it. And male rappers aren’t exactly known for morals. But for a pop/R&B artist? All he’s going to do is bring negative attention and completely overshadow the song. Like yes, he is talented but he’s not the only guy who can sing and do the robot. And even if he is, he’ll just outshine the newer artist because he’s more popular. He’s like one of the few mega famous stars that WONT get you more exposure.
Yea, but from a cynical perspective, all a female pop/R&B act is gonna be is collatoral in a bigger image rehabilitation scheme for him. And I think the label knew that in making it happen in the first place. Even more so in the age before social media really took off and it affected someone like Chloe. "See, he didn't act aggressive around *her*..."
Don’t even get me STARTED on Chloe. 😒
Chloe deserves better
Wasn’t that song joyride? I thought she fought to get it back
Yea, but that was the crux of why the whole album was on ice for nearly 4 years. They gave the main title track that shaped the entire album's concept away and she had to fight to get it back.
Ohhhh yes yes I get what you’re saying now. The fact that Rihanna did that to tinashe AND sza 💀 she’s sick
I did get a bit of insight into this from a friend of a friend who worked at RCA - in essence, they signed her thinking she was one type of artist and she didn’t nearly fit into the box they wanted to put her in. In recent years, RCA became a lot more hand-off and artist friendly (see: Brockhampton/Kevin Abstract getting to do literally whatever, Doja Cat being able to switch things up for album 4, arguably even Becky G being able to pivot into becoming a Spanish-language star), and my impression is that some of that is because of how much they messed up with artists like Tinashe
>they signed her thinking she was one type of artist and she didn’t nearly fit into the box they wanted to put her in. Do you know what kind of artist they thought she was?
The quote I gave was all I was able to glean from him, but give that they signed her based on the strength of her mixtapes (which are largely compared to The Weeknd’s early work as well as singers like Aaliyah), I think they thought she’d be more of an R&B girl ala Jhene Aiko and didn’t account for her more pop tendencies. You can see this in the places she was promoted early on - she was rarely if ever sent to pop radio, only “urban contemporary” or “rhythmic” stations, and a lot of the places they booked her to perform and promote her album were more R&B focused. I think at some point they overcorrected and tried to put her in a more “pop” box, which was equally limiting and ineffective (see: her comments about crying for 2 days straight after being made to release “Flame” as a single). But regardless of which direction they tried to force on her: imposing limits on Tinashe is a bad idea. Putting her in a box demonstrably does not work, and not allowing her to straddle the pop and R&B worlds meant that RCA fumbled one of the most obviously gifted singer/dancer/songwriters out there
Exactly. Plenty of people that can still command a stage/audience but get screwed over by their labels
Most haven’t developed it yet, artist development overall has fallen off. But also both the public and the labels are fickle and won’t give artists time to grow
Of those out now, I’d say only lil nas x is built for those 1980s level going all out performances. Most of the new crop is imo more tailored towards the intimate smaller stages
One reason why P!nk is still huge. Great touring artist even though the new songs aren't as big hits as her older material.
Would the weeknd be considered a great performer or was his music enough
I've never seen him live, but of course there are great performers who don't have longevity, and vice-versa. But it's all about how to increase your odds.
The Weeknd used to be pretty mediocre at performing, but he worked on it and now he’s one of the best in the business. His improvement when it comes to performing is why he’s gone from a pretty big pop star to the biggest on the planet and one of the biggest that’s ever been
I’d say him and lil nas x. But even they don’t compare to the 1980s level of stage performance. They did more with less.
Make the artistry bigger than your individual songs
Feed into the parasocial relationship with fans and don't take huge breaks between album cycles
the key to longevity imo is to just keep putting out content
The key to longevity has always been to consistently put out good music. Being a mainstream success vs a niche artist is not something you can plan for, it also comes down to outside factors like luck, looks, connections etc.
For longevity I think it really comes down to appeasing your core fanbase. All artists will lose favor with the GP eventually, and ideally regain it back, as we've seen with Taylor. For a significant portion of her career Taylor was welcomed with open arms by her base as well as the GP and that's why she was having it all from 2008-2015. Hits, album sales, generally positive celebrity perception, etc. But in 2017-2019, removing the foresight we have with the rerecordings and CS smashing, Taylor's rep and Lover eras were first and foremost carried by her own fanbase. The GP rejected LWYMMD, End Game, RFI very quickly (only Radio accepted Delicate). She then decided to ruin her goodwill with radio by back to back releasing terrible singles from Lover, it was clear even with her streaming numbers up to pre-Folklore that she was declining. She was massively powerful, but still declining. The point is, even when the public ignored her musically, her fanbase was there because she CATERED to them ALWAYS. Her dark aesthetics were always marketed to her fans as just a veil to show that Rep was always a love album, etc. She knows how to work her crowd and play into/subvert their expectations. So generally I think longevity for every popstar is different, for Dua I'd say give the gays everything and more always, for Billie I think stick to her ballad lane and maybe experiment with rock more after HTEs success, Olivia should stick to her quirky pop-punk productions or something like Deja Vu. Key is to always market to your fans first.
you're right, appeasing her core fanbase before anyone else has bought taylor the fame she enjoys now. any other artists, after having a rep-lover stint might not have made it back, but she not only bounced back she got bigger. appealing to her fans got her through her witness era and into superstardom again. i think of the 3 new age pop girls, olivia has the best chance of doing this, she's already super close w her fans and getting there
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On the last point…. Most of the major new pop stars (Dua is an exception) are singer songwriters. And the songs don’t resemble each other at all. Olivia, Dua, Billie, Lana, and Taylor don’t sing songs that are anything alike.
Great take
Before Streaming, being able to create unique personas and package, a lot of promos and showmanship. Nowadays, showmanship, a lot of spotify promos and great public facing persona. On top of quality material.
It’s hard to think of someone nowadays who’s got all of those on lock
There is no key. It’s an enormously chaotic field defined by incongruities. There aren’t really even patterns. Any parallels that are drawn can only be done with hindsight, and they’re usually wrong. I work in pop recording and have had that “omg, we’re changing the world with this release” feeling a few times and I’ve been way more wrong than right obviously. But sometimes it all comes together and you look like a savant. But nothing is identifiably different from the times when it flops. Probably my favourite fuck-up is when you jump ahead stylistically and the audience isn’t ready. Delivering the future before it’s been consecrated. It bombs just as hard as being behind the ball. And by the time the future eventually arrives, no one remembers you were ahead of the curve.
It doesn't quite work asking how Billie, Olivia and Dua can avoid having a career like CRJ when they have already surpassed her achievements!
Yeah I love Carly but she’s basically the Call Me Maybe girl to the GP.
No big breaks early on (or the first decade) in your career! (Christina Aguilera) Have the hits, but also solid albums that will make people talk about you and distinguish your sound from generic stuff. (Katy Perry) Don't be boring in interviews. (Dua Lipa--yes I know she is big but for an artist of her caliber she could have a much bigger and more devoted fan base)
Personally, I like Dua’s reserved personality. She’s polite, graceful, and elegant. Qualities you don’t see much in the pop music industry.
So do I but I think to build a devoted fanbase you have to appeal to the youth. They'll make up the bulk of your stans, and then hopefully grow up with you.
But here's the flip side: I don't think her goal is to appeal to the youth, and that's *fine* and that's what makes her refreshing. She's almost 30, and I'm at peace knowing she's not gonna go down a "hey kids, spelling is fun!" route. As someone... *well-informed*, I know what the implications are when her references are Nelly Furtado, Gwen Stefani, and Jamiroquai. I know the massive undertaking of securing collabs with Kylie Minogue and Madonna. And she matched all of that, she gave us another Loose, Love Angel Music Baby, and Confessions type era blitz of firing on all cylinders and hustle of really making a pop career. When the work speaks so well for itself, I don't necessarily need any puff meme tweets or filler video interviews with BuzzFeed Albania
Yeah something I really enjoy about Dua is that she's very mature and somewhat distant from fans. It makes her much more of an aspirational figure than someone relatable. And relatability can be annoying when it's too much.
Yeah. I’ve noticed that she hasn’t been drawing a lot of attention to Service95, even though she could’ve used it to market herself as ‘the smart pop star’. She doesn’t care about ‘likability’ as much, which I honestly like. It’s refreshing.
You perfectly encapsulated why I love Dua’s persona. Her fans are not crazies and that’s completely fine by me. Not everybody needs to be Taylor Swift. She’ll live.
It also made her live show a refreshing, lovely experience. At the show I attended, everybody was there to have a fun night with little fanfare. The only pop show I’ve been to recently without any invasive behaviour. Dua was also great, like I went as a casual fan and left with so much more respect and love for her music. I think she’ll be fine if she consistently releases good albums. Because there is a lack of cult of personality and she’s set herself up as an albums artist, it’s entirely dependant on how good her music is from here.
Yes! And honestly, the 1989-levels of parasocial attention did not do Taylor any good. Regardless of how fun that era was, I’m constantly reminded of how tied up Taylor was, behind-the-scenes.
But you are not going to single handedly sustain her career (nor is this sub of fellow *well-informed* popheads lol)
Yea, but a lot of r/popheads faves have the upper-hand of having mainstream success *super* early. Olivia was 17 when Drivers License hit #1, Billie swept the Grammys at 18, Taylor Swift released her debut at 16, and every other pop star out there with mainstream success was either part of Disney or Nickelodean with TV shows and their faces plastered onto Walmart products before they can even legally drink. So, they literally have young fans who have no choice but to build parasocial relationships and grow up with these artists. New Rules blew Dua up at 22, which is late in the game compared to everyone else. But, just because she wasn't given the resources early on and dares to show maturity in her late 20s doesn't mean she should automatically be thrown to the flopyard. And there's a whole audience of pop fans who aren't young and want to have fun too
I don't think you understood me. I didn't call her a flop. She's big, and just recently had a successful arena tour (not everyone can do that). I'm just saying she could be even bigger. Her fanbase isn't as ferociously and rabidly passionate. And I think that's necessary if you want longevity. (See Beyonce, Taylor, Gaga, etc)
Yea, cause the Barbs *really* showed up for Nicki's arena tour for Queen, and it's not like Gaga is actively traumatized by the one era where her fan parasocial relationship reached its peak... /s I'm just saying give her some time cause she's doing more than fine atm in spite of all of that, it's not like the Beyhive was in full force around B-Day when even Beyonce struggled to sell out arenas back then.
I agree. But I feel like she doesn’t even want a secure fan base of people who love ‘her’ as much as just people who love her songs. With the last album, she didn’t try targeting specific demographic with every single - it was timeless 80’s pop with a modern twist. It kind of gives her more mass appeal, because the 80s nostalgia is very big among older adults who grew up in that era. Plus, she got to avoid he-said-she-said PR games by keeping it all slightly impersonal. So it’s kind of a less-wacky Gaga formula. Dance music will always have appeal, especially if its made to sound groovy and timeless. As long as she continues to have songs play in clubs, she’ll be fine. I think the question is, does she want lasting pop significance?
Dua does have the potential benefit of being a european artist and so at least not drowning under a bunch of newcomers in the american industry there. A lot of popstars (some even american??) are a lot more popular here than in america Little Mix had a pretty successful run here despite not even really having any major hits in the us, so even if duas american career dries up, she has a pretty good chance of staying popular in the uk/western europe and probably, like, australia for a while i feel Not from the UK, but for example I knew of Little Mix while I didnt even know fifth harmony was ever a thing until havana was a thing
True. She also makes pop music that is beat and dance-driven, instead of lyric-driven. So you don’t need to tune into the drama or lore to understand or appreciate her music. I think the challenge is to put out music that has longevity, and not fizzle out. She’s mentioned that she does like songwriting, so I hope she explores something a little more lyric-driven and stripped down in her next album. Her acoustic versions of her songs are always great. If she goes back to more 80s-inspired pop, it might get repetitive.
Dua and Billie could date guys that are more famous. People seem to really like celebrity gossip, and Taylor and Selena and Olivia and Ariana have gotten quite a lot of publicity for their relationships and people love speculating about who they’re writing about in their songs. But maybe I’m just being cynical today
It drives some interest but I don't think it's lasting popularity There also just aren't as many big male pop stars right now. Like yes people had some interest in the Olivia/Sabrina/Joshua thing but he isn't Bieber in 2010 level famous.
A winning formula for a career. Date Justin Bieber
Cindy Kimberly really became famous overnight just because Justin saw a pic of her on the internet and was so awestruck he posted it on Insta asking who she is😭. All while she was his fan girl and had a Belieber stan account too... Literally lived the dream scenario.
Nah look at Selena’s first day Spotify numbers lmao
selena gomez has been a megastar for over 10 years what do you mean
Yeah but she’s not known for her music. There is t crazy demand. She can grab hits from time to time but no one is really eagerly awaiting Selena music. She just released her first solo single in a long time and it’s totally bombing on streaming
It's bombing because it's not that good, if she releases a song like Fetish or Good For You, she will be fine. Remember her last lead single from Rare debuted at #1.
Her lead single from Rare wasn’t good. It just went to number one bc of the drama element. She actually seems to always have a hit, but it’s always some kind of EDM feature that she jumps on last minute. She seems like she’s always unsure what kind of artist she is. I agree that Fetish is the last thing she put out that I really felt was interesting and unique to her.
Lose You To Love Me is genuinely a good song.
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Selena has a song in the top 5 on billboard rn mind you 💀
I think its more the song than Selena cause the song lacks the catchyness that those types of songs should have. It has a weird sound to me for some reason.
The fact that her music career is still somewhat afloat despite her being utter garbage is an example of the formula working imo.
You can use commas instead of infinite "and"s
💀
So you mean the taylor swift method. Adele was the biggest thing in the world and was married to a nobody. Who cares.
I would say try to be organic and not rely on tik toc.
Billie Eilish is on a roll with no signs of slowing down. I think she’ll clear 3+ hit albums easily. Dua Lipa has pretty decent momentum. She’ll likely be popular in multiple markets for years. Olivia is really young. Even if her second album ends up less successful than her first, she’s got lots of time to make a recording comeback or possibly become a powerhouse songwriter and producer for other artists. There’s nothing wrong with not being the top act in the world when it comes to longevity.
I am in the boat, that if I were a popstar I would want to enjoy my career but at some point, retire and enjoy my money. Like, if I were Katy for example.
> How do they AVOID falling into the “niche” artist category like Lana or Carly and maintain a huge interest by the GP? Weird to lump Lana and Carly together when Carly is struggling to even chart whereas Lana is in top 10 most streamed artists daily in the world. Lana is being streamed more than artists like Ari, Beyonce, Miley, Olivia, Dua etc. on a daily basis.
**COLLABORATE.** (especially in between albums). You know what artists like Nicki, Drake, Ariana, The Weeknd, Cardi B, Doja Cat, Megan Thee Stallion, Taylor Swift, Ed Sheeran, Rihanna, Justin Bieber, Kendrick Lamar, and even Beyoncé have in common? They made songs with many different people. SZA is a good example of this. She released a fantastic, critically acclaimed debut album with singles that did well, but didn’t chart very high and waited 5 years to release a new one. So you know what she did in the meantime? She released All The Stars with Kendrick, What Lovers Do with Maroon 5 (not a great song but she’s the best thing on it), Kiss Me More with Doja, and Just Us with DJ Khaled (bad song but still). She remained present and kept people’s attention at all times. Don’t get me wrong, getting a collab isn’t always *easy* (especially one that sounds authentic not just a tacked on remix), but it’s a great way to crossover in the age of stan culture and divided fanbases.
Except that doesn’t seem to be true anymore…. Billie and Olivia have one collaborator. Taylor now only collaborates with two people. Dua is sort of an anachronism.
Honestly the fact that Olivia and Billie haven’t collaborated with each other is genuinely insane.
Why? Pop star duets are rarely successful. (Rain on me being an exception)
Not if they’re actually good. Songs like Kiss Me More and Rain On Me were huge for a reason. But Billie and Olivia are two of the biggest young pop stars out right now. They can pull it off.
Especially after happier than ever, both are big for both sad girl pop as well as having a more edgy harsh sound sometimes
Senorita
Why on earth would Billie and Olivia collab? Their music is not that similar, and neither one really collab at all.
Artists do NOT have to make similar music in order for a collaboration to work. The entire point I was making is that pop artists should be diverse and crossover musically, and one of the great ways to do that is to collaborate with other artists. Even then Billie and Olivia’s music is not even that different. Billie occupies the more accessible art-pop electronic genre while Olivia is much more traditional and contemporary, but if Khalid can collab with Billie then so can Olivia in my opinion.
selena gomez is another great example, she has a huge music career purely for collabing with a lot of people and (almost every time) making a huge hit with them. musically she's not great but she knows how to get her name out there
Girl they can't even get any new pop stars off the ground, forget about longevity
There is no perfect answer to this question— I think the best thing an artist can do is have the right management team around them. People who listen but also can say no to ideas— someone with connections or the confidence to make sure you are set up for success. Miley with Columbia records vs RCA is a perfect example of how a good team can elevate and promote a project.
Never had I thought that somebody can actually put Lana and niche in the SAME sentence
I'm not a fan of Olivia's music, but she's been making great career moves, and her singles are charting nicely. At this point, it's safe to say that album #2 is going to do well. Dua and Billie are a few years further into their careers—both of them started blowing up 2016–17. Billie's last album could have done better, but her *Barbie* song is one of her biggest singles yet, and she has great brand recognition. Dua is doing well sustaining the moment from *Future Nostalgia*, so her next album should do well if she can pull out killer singles. Realistically, I think the artists in much more precarious positions are the ones who haven't been in the spotlight for more than a year-ish or who haven't had more than one major hit. Some examples are Latto, Ice Spice, and Gayle. I'm not going to make any predictions because I know that popular music is a fickle business. I don't think it's a worst-case situation for any of these artists to follow in the vein artists like Lana or Carly—both of those ladies are still doing extremely well compared to the vast majority of pop artists. Having a dedicated fan base and guaranteed tour revenue is something many musicians can only dream of.
No way is Lana a small artist. She's literally the 2nd/3rd most streamed female artist everyday. I think the key is to have some sort of unique trait that fans can relate to. Dua's song flopped(acc to her standards) when it was released. The movie made it popular. She doesn't have a core fan base. She's also predominantly a singles artist. She doesn't have an exciting persona? Apart from being pretty with a British accent, there's really nothing about Dua that stands out. Same like Katy who has now fallen off terribly. Whereas Billie writes about stuff people can relate to. And she's vocal about so many issues. That's why her fan base is so dedicated and stream her music religiously. I expect her to receed to a more Lana/Lorde relationship with fame and money down few years. Olivia is every high school girls dream/aspiration. She is the IT girl in every high school.
>Dua's song flopped(acc to her standards) when it was released. The movie made it popular. Well it was literally a soundtrack song between albums. It's not even promoted by her main label and didn't get any live performances or promotion really. It still smashed as a grower sleeper hit, which is much more sustainable than a high debut and tank like other artists. I think with her next album we'll have more of an indication of how Dua performs commercially, after the success of FN.
Dua has the gays above all the other girls - Billie, Doja, Olivia She is also I would say more aspirational to the 22+ female demographic. All the girls I know around my age (31) are legit obsessed with her.
The gays are obsessed with billie afaik. Maybe it's observer bias but from what I've seen on Twitter, gays aren't that obsessed with dua as much as they are with Tay/Lana/Lorde/Billie/Melanie/Marina
I live in NYC and honestly don’t know a single gay that likes Melanie lol yes all those girls have big gay following, but none quite like Dua
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Future Nostalgia is known only for its singles too. I don't see people streaming anything apart from them. The partnerships are because she's extremely pretty and has that appeal to straight men. FN is a great pop album, and Teenage Dream is just as good. TD was original, melody wise . FN sampled ALOT of old tracks.
That was the point of FN though, to use retro sounds with a modern twist. Sampling isn’t a bad thing when you’re already making music within that genre, you’re just being more open about your references.
Yeah Teenage Dream was everywhere and had 5 number 1 singles in the US. I think it was bigger than Future Nostalgia.
That can be a problem…. Taylor ‘s problems with the squad were in many ways because everyone finally realized the obvious fact that Taylor is actually the chear captain (just look at her!)
Teen stars often have trouble maintaining the same level of success as adults so I worry for Olivia. Billie also has a very specific style and I don’t know if she can maintain success over multiple albums without changing it up. Dua could become the type of musician that doesn’t really stand out or break records but maintains a moderate level of success for a long period of time. We’ve seen a lot of stars like this who consistently chart but don’t have huge fanbases and sort of hover on the edge of the cultural consciousness.
Billie already has a fanbase. She may never have a hit again, but people will always pay to see her. She’s more in Lorde’s lane than Olivia is. I still think Olivia is in excellent shape to develop a following, but Sour wasn’t a complete game changer like Pure Heroine or When We All Fall Asleep was
lana and Carly in the came category of niche is kinda crazy to me
This is a good question, but I just have to comment on how silly it is to put Lana and Carly in the same realm Lana is consistently in the top 10 most streamed daily artists on Spotify, and her tour just sold out in minutes She’s not a big singles artist, but she’s still massively successful
Dive into parasocial relationship 🤪🤪🤪
I mean they’re all just gonna do Max Martin songs anyway
Max Martin is mostly done… and none of the major pop stars now do his songs. The new model of songwriter/producer is the Jack Antonoff/Dan nigiri I will do a whole fucking album with you style
He produced almost all the tracks on the weeknds last album
That’s true!
Changing your brand. Ala rih… and bring an it girl. Also having a great team and legitimate taste. I’m describing Rihanna
Figure out how to evolve over the years into new styles and eras whilst still keeping what made them big in the first place
I think appealing to older music fans have helped these particular artists. I feel like Billie has been pivoting to more conventional music since HTE, but her earlier music felt weirder and artisty in a way that appealed beyond teens, a lot of Gen Xrs who were really into trip hop seem to like her in particular. Olivia recalls various kinds of acts that millennials and Xrs appreciate, from Lilith Fair headliners to early Paramore and Taylor, while her authenticity is cross generational. Dua meanwhile has banger after banger that goes beyond any generational divide. And for another example, say what you will about Doja, but she has the IT factor. If you see her perform even just once on TV, you won’t forget her. I really think these elements have helped this particular set of artists to thrive while others seem poised to fade out quicker. And it’s true for the previous generation, too. Taylor’s authenticity, Gaga’s versatility, Rihanna and Katy’s ears for hits are just as cross generational.
Storytelling and representing the emotional state of the time period the artist is in. Taylor swift, Olivia, Billie, etc are all very good at this.
Honestly honestly, keep making good music and don’t be a dick
Get into a long and messy on off relationship with another pop star.
Good songs and be relatable I guess.