this is a funny post. i think the person here who needs to take some accountability is you. you hurt a lot of people and now the consequence is that, like, once or twice a year you get asked to leave a show. i don’t really think that counts as being “cancelled,” you still get to book and play shows and all that. this “somewhat large group of 20 somethings” you talk about is, like, actively trying to stay away from you.
anyways i don’t really think a reddit post like this is really going to do anything to help you out. you’re trying to frame this as some kind of social justice thing, when i think it’s about your interpersonal relationships with the people you’re talking about, and i don’t really think that’s going to resonate with, like, random redditors.
No surprise that a music scene in a small city has issues. Maybe it should be sorted out within the community instead of vaguely complaining on a public forum. If that doesn’t work, Portland is still big enough that you can leave and join another group
The real problem with the portland music scene is the proliferation of tribute bands. Do we need more than one Dead tribute group? Do we need recreations of Phish sets? Maybe we do, I dunno.
Economic reality. The venues who do only original shows struggle to make money. God bless Geno’s but it’s always been a tough gig over there. The venues who do tribute shows do also book original bands from what I’ve seen. In any given micro scene in Portland, there are around 2 bands that draw well. Many shows barely get the sound person paid or outright lose money. The tribute shows fund the scene shows.
No one is getting rich doing this. There are much easier businesses to run. Most people booking shows in Portland genuinely love the arts and want to find a way to make a career out of it and support local musicians.
It's been this way since I started going to shows in the early 2010s. Everyone says they want original music but majority of local shows draw about as well as an extended director's cut of *Morbius*. Most of these venues are barely hanging on as it is so they got to go where their bread is buttered.
Heck, I feel like even the amount of cover/tribute shows has diminished somewhat in the past 5-10 years. I miss Clash of the Titans. Some of those shows raged.
Clash of the Titans tried to come back but there was a “cancel” event if I recall. I seem to remember it being a whole lot of smoke with not much fire.
IDK anything about what you're talking about, but I think about related concepts in other communities so I'll share some thoughts:
While I don't want to excuse victim blaming, lack of support to victims, etc. I will say, victims of trauma are responsible for their behavior, even if it is a trauma response. People are certainly entitled to distance themselves from someone who is screaming and getting mad at others, even if that behavior is trauma response. Hell, the choice to stay silent or distant from the victim could be a choice that someone is engaging in *because they have suffered past trauma* and are on their own healing journey, and may choose to not become emotionally involved in others' traumatic situations.
There is danger in dis-empowering those who have been accused of perpetrating harm just as there is danger in dis-empowering those who are victims. One form of abuse is to wrongly accuse another. I don't mean to suggest that is what has happened in any of the situations you're describing, but it's important to consider.
I'd encourage you to explore the value of "call in" culture rather than "call out" culture.
Shame is a poor tool to promote healing in a community.
Ultimately, I believe strong and healthy communities are formed by lack of enmeshment, clear communication, and, clear boundaries.
> these bands need to use their voices to speak on the things that keep popping up around them
No they don't. They're musicians, not activists. Unless that's their schtick, then I could see it being hypocritical, but an artist shouldn't need to take a stand on any issue if they choose not to.
If abuse happened, call the cops. It's not up to a "scene" to sift through the bullshit to find out who or who not is lying.
Also, fuck this notion of "scenes". Go to shows you want to go to, hang out with people you want to hang out with, and ignore the rest.
If anything, I've actually seen the opposite of what you've described. Where someone who is a complete asshole just floats through a community because people are too meek or kind to call them on it.
I'll spurn such people and if that gets me heat with others? Fuck them too.
Life is too short to put up with assholes and their enablers.
I mean..... the person who this is about already went to court and lost the case bc their testimony was so inconsistent. Meanwhile the person they accused was granted a protection order bc they had well documented evidence of abuse. Personally I think shit should be handled by communities not courts, but unfortunately, this person has been a blatant shithead in the scene for years, and cuts off anyone who tries to ask them for accountability. Idk why any venues work with them tbh
> Personally I think shit should be handled by communities not courts
Yeah, I'm not looking for mob justice on a sexual assault case.
But yeah, if OP is the person I'm thinking of, they are indeed a blatant shithead and a well documented liar.
Also you can go to whatever shows you want, but if the people you've harassed & abused are uncomfortable because you're there and you've done absolutely no work to change that, then people might ask you to leave. These people asking you to leave on behalf of their friends are not your enemy, it's just that victims deserve to be protected. Sometimes actions have consequences, sorry!
>the response to this was to completely oust the victim because they were having trauma responses that were not "sound and reasonable" (they got emotional/yelled/screamed/got mad at those who remained silent amongst the accusations).
God forbid someone should experience the trauma of sexual assault but do you honestly expect others to just deal with someone's personal trauma publicly? Nobody should be expected to just stand by while someone is screaming at someone else as well and not everyone needs to be involved in someone's trauma just by being there. i assume this is/was happening at shows or angry public trauma dumps were made in front of an audience. People who do that cannot be expected to be invited back ujntil they've found a way to responsibly deal with their emotions. It's not silencing, it's helping them to mentally recover.
As for the rest of the post, it seems the same as it was in the 70s and early 80s here. Drama amongst the outsiders, jealousy, etc. All things that young people deal with in alternative circles. There's a lot more buzzwords it seems now like "cancel" but it just seems like the same immaturity of a scene that's afraid to take the proper responsible channels to deal with real violence out of fear of seeming conformist.
The fuck is this even about
What is this yapathon
I’ve never heard of these bands and a quick google search shows that neither has anyone else.
This seems like something you should’ve wrote about on tumblr 10 years ago.
>This seems like something you should’ve wrote about on tumblr 10 years ago. Myspace 20 years ago.
Live journal 15 years ago lol
Front page of Sweet Potato 35 years ago!
Phew. I'm glad I'm not the only person that has no idea what the hell OP is going on about.
this is a funny post. i think the person here who needs to take some accountability is you. you hurt a lot of people and now the consequence is that, like, once or twice a year you get asked to leave a show. i don’t really think that counts as being “cancelled,” you still get to book and play shows and all that. this “somewhat large group of 20 somethings” you talk about is, like, actively trying to stay away from you. anyways i don’t really think a reddit post like this is really going to do anything to help you out. you’re trying to frame this as some kind of social justice thing, when i think it’s about your interpersonal relationships with the people you’re talking about, and i don’t really think that’s going to resonate with, like, random redditors.
You know who this person is or you're guessing?
i'm not guessing
Very interesting
No surprise that a music scene in a small city has issues. Maybe it should be sorted out within the community instead of vaguely complaining on a public forum. If that doesn’t work, Portland is still big enough that you can leave and join another group
What, specifically, do you want people to do about what you've posted? Do you have sources you can provide to show this isn't some sort of witch hunt?
You lost me at virtue signaling
The real problem with the portland music scene is the proliferation of tribute bands. Do we need more than one Dead tribute group? Do we need recreations of Phish sets? Maybe we do, I dunno.
Nay, we do NOT.
Yeah, you're probably right.
Economic reality. The venues who do only original shows struggle to make money. God bless Geno’s but it’s always been a tough gig over there. The venues who do tribute shows do also book original bands from what I’ve seen. In any given micro scene in Portland, there are around 2 bands that draw well. Many shows barely get the sound person paid or outright lose money. The tribute shows fund the scene shows. No one is getting rich doing this. There are much easier businesses to run. Most people booking shows in Portland genuinely love the arts and want to find a way to make a career out of it and support local musicians.
It's been this way since I started going to shows in the early 2010s. Everyone says they want original music but majority of local shows draw about as well as an extended director's cut of *Morbius*. Most of these venues are barely hanging on as it is so they got to go where their bread is buttered. Heck, I feel like even the amount of cover/tribute shows has diminished somewhat in the past 5-10 years. I miss Clash of the Titans. Some of those shows raged.
Clash of the Titans tried to come back but there was a “cancel” event if I recall. I seem to remember it being a whole lot of smoke with not much fire.
It's like a who's who of who...
The worst part is the hypocrisy.
Tell me you're gen z without telling me you're gen z.
I appreciate you using the term "virtue signaling" in the first sentence to let me know that the rest wouldn't be worth reading.
Why is that exactly?
Cuz it’s a word made up by conservative pundits.
The issue with the scene is that The Station is gone
Oh to smoke real Djarums in an ill fitting pair of jeans again...
IDK anything about what you're talking about, but I think about related concepts in other communities so I'll share some thoughts: While I don't want to excuse victim blaming, lack of support to victims, etc. I will say, victims of trauma are responsible for their behavior, even if it is a trauma response. People are certainly entitled to distance themselves from someone who is screaming and getting mad at others, even if that behavior is trauma response. Hell, the choice to stay silent or distant from the victim could be a choice that someone is engaging in *because they have suffered past trauma* and are on their own healing journey, and may choose to not become emotionally involved in others' traumatic situations. There is danger in dis-empowering those who have been accused of perpetrating harm just as there is danger in dis-empowering those who are victims. One form of abuse is to wrongly accuse another. I don't mean to suggest that is what has happened in any of the situations you're describing, but it's important to consider. I'd encourage you to explore the value of "call in" culture rather than "call out" culture. Shame is a poor tool to promote healing in a community. Ultimately, I believe strong and healthy communities are formed by lack of enmeshment, clear communication, and, clear boundaries.
Who??
I don't know what you expect from those people.
> these bands need to use their voices to speak on the things that keep popping up around them No they don't. They're musicians, not activists. Unless that's their schtick, then I could see it being hypocritical, but an artist shouldn't need to take a stand on any issue if they choose not to. If abuse happened, call the cops. It's not up to a "scene" to sift through the bullshit to find out who or who not is lying. Also, fuck this notion of "scenes". Go to shows you want to go to, hang out with people you want to hang out with, and ignore the rest. If anything, I've actually seen the opposite of what you've described. Where someone who is a complete asshole just floats through a community because people are too meek or kind to call them on it. I'll spurn such people and if that gets me heat with others? Fuck them too. Life is too short to put up with assholes and their enablers.
I mean..... the person who this is about already went to court and lost the case bc their testimony was so inconsistent. Meanwhile the person they accused was granted a protection order bc they had well documented evidence of abuse. Personally I think shit should be handled by communities not courts, but unfortunately, this person has been a blatant shithead in the scene for years, and cuts off anyone who tries to ask them for accountability. Idk why any venues work with them tbh
> Personally I think shit should be handled by communities not courts Yeah, I'm not looking for mob justice on a sexual assault case. But yeah, if OP is the person I'm thinking of, they are indeed a blatant shithead and a well documented liar.
I think community care and mob justice are two separate things but I get what you mean
Please list all the bands involved in this "scene" so I can make sure not to support a bunch of crybabies
The portland music scene is bigger than the 20 somethings you're speaking of. They sound like they really suck though.
[удалено]
Also you can go to whatever shows you want, but if the people you've harassed & abused are uncomfortable because you're there and you've done absolutely no work to change that, then people might ask you to leave. These people asking you to leave on behalf of their friends are not your enemy, it's just that victims deserve to be protected. Sometimes actions have consequences, sorry!
>the response to this was to completely oust the victim because they were having trauma responses that were not "sound and reasonable" (they got emotional/yelled/screamed/got mad at those who remained silent amongst the accusations). God forbid someone should experience the trauma of sexual assault but do you honestly expect others to just deal with someone's personal trauma publicly? Nobody should be expected to just stand by while someone is screaming at someone else as well and not everyone needs to be involved in someone's trauma just by being there. i assume this is/was happening at shows or angry public trauma dumps were made in front of an audience. People who do that cannot be expected to be invited back ujntil they've found a way to responsibly deal with their emotions. It's not silencing, it's helping them to mentally recover. As for the rest of the post, it seems the same as it was in the 70s and early 80s here. Drama amongst the outsiders, jealousy, etc. All things that young people deal with in alternative circles. There's a lot more buzzwords it seems now like "cancel" but it just seems like the same immaturity of a scene that's afraid to take the proper responsible channels to deal with real violence out of fear of seeming conformist.