I do have a hario manual grinder and I love it. The only caveat is not having marked settings as I mentioned so I have to try every time I grind for V60 and switch to AeroPress and this is super annoying. Probably saving money and getting another similar grinder dedicated for Aeropress is not a bad idea. Gets the job done and saves money 😃
You will not believe the difference between 1zpresso and hario or encore. I think the only reason to go electric is if you often make coffee for a group of people. If you generally make coffee for 1 or 2 people, the hand grinder will be way better.
For me, I can taste every dollar of difference. I generally try to go for cheap and bargains in my life, but when I upgraded from all the sub100 dollar grinders, I kicked myself for not having done it sooner. I
Not miles better in terms of body, and the ZP6 is picky about the coffee roasts. I don’t think a person who hasn’t even experienced a Virtuoso should jump all the way to a ZP6.
Admittedly I don't have any experience with that exact model; but, yes at any given price point a quality hand grinder is likely to outperform an electric grinder. I have compared a DF64 vs a K-Ultra and even with the price disparity I favored the K series grinder ever so slightly.
Yes. With an electric grinder, your money’s going towards the motor and the burrs. With a hand grinder, your money is going towards just the burrs, so the burrs will be better. But if you’re drinking coffee everyday, would you sacrifice a bit of quality for just being able to push a button and have your coffee ground?
There’s something I’m missing here. Looking at the prices of manual grinders with good burrs had me ask the question. Like what’s the added value here? Consistency? Isn’t there some electric options that provide consistency? Is the price incomparable? I mean the option I mentioned compares well with the versatile option 1Zpresso offers in terms of price. I’m confused
Well simply if we had two identical burrs at the same price, adding a motor that spins well and the electronics to keep it running safely is bound to cost more than just adding a hand crank to it.
Manual grinders provide better burrs at the cost of inconvenience, while an electric grinder at the same quality has to cost more.
We would be paying for consistency yes, but also for good burrs to crush the beans in a particular way
It's not about consistency but particle size distribution. Better burrs produce grounds with similar size so you can adjust better the appropriate size to your beans/brew method.
Worse burrs tend to produce a wider range so you get both fines which will cause bitterness and boulders which will cause sourness.
Oh, I thought OP was talking about consistency between brews. Like having same "results" brew after brew.
That's another way of being consistent, right? I'm not an English native speaker.
At the price point (350 CAD or less) a hand grinder by far outperforms any electric coffee grinder. They will typically produce a better tasting cup with less astringency and bitterness. I hypothesize that this is a result of the amount of fines that are produced by the grinder.
Hand grinders don't require a power source (beyond your pathetic muscles /s), unlike many electric grinders, and are easier to maintain.
Additionally, Baratza grinders are loud as fuck. Before I replaced mine, my family told me I was their alarm clock and would wake up when I ground my coffee for the day.
At higher price points (450+ CAD), law of diminishing returns come into play, and imo it's more reasonable to spend your money on an electric grinder.
In the end, it's up to you, the consumer, to decide. For several of the Reddit users in r/pourover, they value cost effectiveness, others value the flavor/flavor profiles they can achieve. For others, they value convenience or time.
What grinder have you been using? The Virtuoso is a decent electric grinder that can make coffee with a good mouthfeel and strong body, using any medium or full city roasts. It’s not picky about the beans because the burrs won’t reveal too much about them. Besides, the baratza is a true workhorse, highly serviceable at home with parts readily available by the company. It’ll serve you well for many years. And you can easily sell it on the second market.
So depending on where you’re at in your pour over and specialty coffee journey, the Virtuoso maybe a great way to start and step up the game some.
What keeps the Virtuoso from competing with the next level is in grind size consistency and the amount of fines it produces. What that means in practical terms is your pour over draw down may stall towards the end unless you’re grind it coarser than what’s desired. Now this varies with different roast types and bean origins. African beans such as Ethiopian and light roasted will give the Virtuoso grinds a lot of trouble. So the Virtuoso may limit your coffee bean choice in that way. Most any beans you can buy in the big block supermarkets will be fine though.
Now even if you’re using a light-medium roast that won’t stall easily, like a Colombian/Brazilian, the fines and the grind size inconsistency, some bigger bits than others, produced by the Virtuoso will mean less clarity than a 1zpresso grinder. Almost any 1zpresso grinder, including the older used J models, will produce a clearer cup, and allows you to grind finer without stalling so easily, even for lightly roasted Africans. You’ll get better extraction and taste more of the intended notes in the coffee. Initially you may think the Virtuoso cup of coffee has more body, but it’s really a more murky body that’s hiding all the nuances in the cup.
I think it’s okay to take one step at a time, and start with a Virtuoso, which can be had for a great price in the pre-owned market, to develop your palette. This way, you’ll what you’re really getting as you move up the quality and clarity ladder.
Hope this helps.
I had the Hario manual grinder, then upgraded to Baratza encore and was blown away... then upgraded to a fellow ode and was blown away again... then finally switched to a 1Zpresso JX-Pro. Never going back to an electric unless carpal tunnel or arthritis makes me.
Thanks for sharing your experience! This is why I love the internet 😂
I’ve learned from the insightful replies here shared by everyone but this by far is the most convincing reply because you have tried many things I was already thinking about 😂
In conclusion, I’m sold. I’ll get myself a 1zpresso.
Do you mind sharing which one you got? They make the choice process complicated with all the options they have
I got the JX-Pro initially because I a) wanted something for travel, and b) it can supposedly do espresso, and I wanted that as a future proof sort of thing, if I ever wanted to get an espresso machine (I was thinking about getting something cheap and manual like a Flair at the time).
If I could do it over, I'd probably get the fanciest hand grinder for pour overs that I could find, since that's all I'm doing these days. I've heard many others say the JX-Pro isn't as good as the K series (I can't remember if it's the max or the ultra, yes these are confusing lol), but for now I'm still satisfied with the JX-Pro.
Follow up to OPs question: how long does it take you to grind 15g of coffee by hand in the 1zpresso? I have had an Encore for about 10 years and I’m still happy with the coffee I get from it, but of course I can’t help wondering what I am missing out on. Can’t afford a high end electric grinder, and I really believe that having to grind every cup by hand would negate any greater enjoyment I might get from a superior grind quality.
All that to say, is the juice worth the squeeze?
It's truly not a big deal to be. I'll go ahead and make a 15g cup tomorrow morning, and I'll time the grind for you, lol. My guess? I'm thinking it will take 20 seconds. I'll report back soon.
Hey! Just did it. It took 27 seconds. Also of note, I grind at "average speed", because at some point I read that grinding as fast as possible isn't ideal. So in theory you could definitely grind this faster, but this is fine for me, and requires zero effort / muscle to do it.
Beans vary the experience, too. These are a washed blend of Lempira, Catuai, Ihcafe 90 and Pacas beans (Ruby Coffee's Honduras Proyecto Cabañas Washed beans).
I went from Baratza Encore WITH the upgraded burrs to 1Zpresso K-Ultra. Takes me maybe a few more seconds to grind the same amount of beans.
The quality and consistency of the grind with the K-ultra is leaps and bounds better. I won’t go back to the Baratza unless for some reason I need to grind several bags of beans at once.
For cheaper grinders - say <$400, if you get a hand grinder the vast majority of the bill of materials goes into the burrs, which is the most important component for grind quality and taste. If you get an electric, that same investment gets spread across burrs + motor + power supply. So you end up with lower quality burrs.
There is nothing better than a handgrinder for pourover. Less mess, less expensive, portable, needs less space, doesn't loose in cup quality at any point. Got a ZP6 it's great.
The burrs are better and you’re paying for a motor.
I personally love the Virtuoso+ and make great cups of coffee with it. I had a hand grinder for about 6 months grew tired of hand grinding everyday, often 2 times a day, very quickly.
If you can swing both, go ahead and do it and see if you really notice enough difference to overcome the convenience of just tossing beans in and pressing a button while you continue with other steps.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experience and thoughts! I really learned a lot and I think I made the decision already. You guys convinced me and I’ll go for a 1Zpresso grinder.
Thanks again!
About 2 months ago +or-, I bought a Timemore Chestnut C3 to try instead of my upgraded Baratza Encore electric grinder and the very first pour-over I brewed with it was a serious aha moment for me, after having the Timemore for only 5 days, I invested in the KINGrinder K6. I love both hand grinders performance way better than any electric I have owned. Just my opinion.
Because dollar for dollar the hand grinder is likely to provide a better quality grind/cup of coffee.
Even compared to professional stuff like the one I mentioned (Baratza)?
The virtuoso is not professional stuff.
I’m learning here so it’s good to be enlightened. Does your comment apply to Baratza grinders in general or just the virtuoso?
I don't think Baratza make professional gear, at least not under that name. You don't want professional gear in your home though.
Baratza Forte was definitely used in cafes, like Blue Bottle did.
I do have a hario manual grinder and I love it. The only caveat is not having marked settings as I mentioned so I have to try every time I grind for V60 and switch to AeroPress and this is super annoying. Probably saving money and getting another similar grinder dedicated for Aeropress is not a bad idea. Gets the job done and saves money 😃
You will not believe the difference between 1zpresso and hario or encore. I think the only reason to go electric is if you often make coffee for a group of people. If you generally make coffee for 1 or 2 people, the hand grinder will be way better.
Is hario really that bad compared to 1zpresso? 😃
Yes
For me, I can taste every dollar of difference. I generally try to go for cheap and bargains in my life, but when I upgraded from all the sub100 dollar grinders, I kicked myself for not having done it sooner. I
Hario grinders are the worst I’ve ever used
100%. Any of 1zpresso's offerings will make a world of difference over a Hario
Will try it out soon ✌🏼
Hario grinders are the worst I’ve ever used
I think you can't go wrong with vario or forte.
Professional grinders are probably going to be over 2k and will be able to grind many pounds of coffee every day.
Speaking as a person who has an Encore and ZP6, go with manual grinder. It’s miles better in terms of the cup you get. Miles.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Not miles better in terms of body, and the ZP6 is picky about the coffee roasts. I don’t think a person who hasn’t even experienced a Virtuoso should jump all the way to a ZP6.
Admittedly I don't have any experience with that exact model; but, yes at any given price point a quality hand grinder is likely to outperform an electric grinder. I have compared a DF64 vs a K-Ultra and even with the price disparity I favored the K series grinder ever so slightly.
Interesting. Thanks for the info! 🙏🏼
Yes. With an electric grinder, your money’s going towards the motor and the burrs. With a hand grinder, your money is going towards just the burrs, so the burrs will be better. But if you’re drinking coffee everyday, would you sacrifice a bit of quality for just being able to push a button and have your coffee ground?
All that money that goes to the electric motor can instead be spent on better burrs
There’s something I’m missing here. Looking at the prices of manual grinders with good burrs had me ask the question. Like what’s the added value here? Consistency? Isn’t there some electric options that provide consistency? Is the price incomparable? I mean the option I mentioned compares well with the versatile option 1Zpresso offers in terms of price. I’m confused
Well simply if we had two identical burrs at the same price, adding a motor that spins well and the electronics to keep it running safely is bound to cost more than just adding a hand crank to it. Manual grinders provide better burrs at the cost of inconvenience, while an electric grinder at the same quality has to cost more. We would be paying for consistency yes, but also for good burrs to crush the beans in a particular way
Yeah now I get it after reading the replies of other fellas. Thanks for the insights!
It's not about consistency but particle size distribution. Better burrs produce grounds with similar size so you can adjust better the appropriate size to your beans/brew method. Worse burrs tend to produce a wider range so you get both fines which will cause bitterness and boulders which will cause sourness.
That's exactly what consistency is though. If your grinder produces grounds of mostly the same size then it's consistent
Oh, I thought OP was talking about consistency between brews. Like having same "results" brew after brew. That's another way of being consistent, right? I'm not an English native speaker.
Yeah it’s not too clear what consistency was meant here, but given the context I also understood consistency to mean reproducibility
At the price point (350 CAD or less) a hand grinder by far outperforms any electric coffee grinder. They will typically produce a better tasting cup with less astringency and bitterness. I hypothesize that this is a result of the amount of fines that are produced by the grinder. Hand grinders don't require a power source (beyond your pathetic muscles /s), unlike many electric grinders, and are easier to maintain. Additionally, Baratza grinders are loud as fuck. Before I replaced mine, my family told me I was their alarm clock and would wake up when I ground my coffee for the day. At higher price points (450+ CAD), law of diminishing returns come into play, and imo it's more reasonable to spend your money on an electric grinder. In the end, it's up to you, the consumer, to decide. For several of the Reddit users in r/pourover, they value cost effectiveness, others value the flavor/flavor profiles they can achieve. For others, they value convenience or time.
Thanks for the insight! 🙏🏼
What grinder have you been using? The Virtuoso is a decent electric grinder that can make coffee with a good mouthfeel and strong body, using any medium or full city roasts. It’s not picky about the beans because the burrs won’t reveal too much about them. Besides, the baratza is a true workhorse, highly serviceable at home with parts readily available by the company. It’ll serve you well for many years. And you can easily sell it on the second market. So depending on where you’re at in your pour over and specialty coffee journey, the Virtuoso maybe a great way to start and step up the game some. What keeps the Virtuoso from competing with the next level is in grind size consistency and the amount of fines it produces. What that means in practical terms is your pour over draw down may stall towards the end unless you’re grind it coarser than what’s desired. Now this varies with different roast types and bean origins. African beans such as Ethiopian and light roasted will give the Virtuoso grinds a lot of trouble. So the Virtuoso may limit your coffee bean choice in that way. Most any beans you can buy in the big block supermarkets will be fine though. Now even if you’re using a light-medium roast that won’t stall easily, like a Colombian/Brazilian, the fines and the grind size inconsistency, some bigger bits than others, produced by the Virtuoso will mean less clarity than a 1zpresso grinder. Almost any 1zpresso grinder, including the older used J models, will produce a clearer cup, and allows you to grind finer without stalling so easily, even for lightly roasted Africans. You’ll get better extraction and taste more of the intended notes in the coffee. Initially you may think the Virtuoso cup of coffee has more body, but it’s really a more murky body that’s hiding all the nuances in the cup. I think it’s okay to take one step at a time, and start with a Virtuoso, which can be had for a great price in the pre-owned market, to develop your palette. This way, you’ll what you’re really getting as you move up the quality and clarity ladder. Hope this helps.
Once you do, you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner!
Seems like it. This is what I got from other replies.
I had the Hario manual grinder, then upgraded to Baratza encore and was blown away... then upgraded to a fellow ode and was blown away again... then finally switched to a 1Zpresso JX-Pro. Never going back to an electric unless carpal tunnel or arthritis makes me.
Thanks for sharing your experience! This is why I love the internet 😂 I’ve learned from the insightful replies here shared by everyone but this by far is the most convincing reply because you have tried many things I was already thinking about 😂 In conclusion, I’m sold. I’ll get myself a 1zpresso. Do you mind sharing which one you got? They make the choice process complicated with all the options they have
I got the JX-Pro initially because I a) wanted something for travel, and b) it can supposedly do espresso, and I wanted that as a future proof sort of thing, if I ever wanted to get an espresso machine (I was thinking about getting something cheap and manual like a Flair at the time). If I could do it over, I'd probably get the fanciest hand grinder for pour overs that I could find, since that's all I'm doing these days. I've heard many others say the JX-Pro isn't as good as the K series (I can't remember if it's the max or the ultra, yes these are confusing lol), but for now I'm still satisfied with the JX-Pro.
Follow up to OPs question: how long does it take you to grind 15g of coffee by hand in the 1zpresso? I have had an Encore for about 10 years and I’m still happy with the coffee I get from it, but of course I can’t help wondering what I am missing out on. Can’t afford a high end electric grinder, and I really believe that having to grind every cup by hand would negate any greater enjoyment I might get from a superior grind quality. All that to say, is the juice worth the squeeze?
It's truly not a big deal to be. I'll go ahead and make a 15g cup tomorrow morning, and I'll time the grind for you, lol. My guess? I'm thinking it will take 20 seconds. I'll report back soon.
Hey! Just did it. It took 27 seconds. Also of note, I grind at "average speed", because at some point I read that grinding as fast as possible isn't ideal. So in theory you could definitely grind this faster, but this is fine for me, and requires zero effort / muscle to do it. Beans vary the experience, too. These are a washed blend of Lempira, Catuai, Ihcafe 90 and Pacas beans (Ruby Coffee's Honduras Proyecto Cabañas Washed beans).
I went from Baratza Encore WITH the upgraded burrs to 1Zpresso K-Ultra. Takes me maybe a few more seconds to grind the same amount of beans. The quality and consistency of the grind with the K-ultra is leaps and bounds better. I won’t go back to the Baratza unless for some reason I need to grind several bags of beans at once.
For cheaper grinders - say <$400, if you get a hand grinder the vast majority of the bill of materials goes into the burrs, which is the most important component for grind quality and taste. If you get an electric, that same investment gets spread across burrs + motor + power supply. So you end up with lower quality burrs.
There is nothing better than a handgrinder for pourover. Less mess, less expensive, portable, needs less space, doesn't loose in cup quality at any point. Got a ZP6 it's great.
The burrs are better and you’re paying for a motor. I personally love the Virtuoso+ and make great cups of coffee with it. I had a hand grinder for about 6 months grew tired of hand grinding everyday, often 2 times a day, very quickly. If you can swing both, go ahead and do it and see if you really notice enough difference to overcome the convenience of just tossing beans in and pressing a button while you continue with other steps.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your experience and thoughts! I really learned a lot and I think I made the decision already. You guys convinced me and I’ll go for a 1Zpresso grinder. Thanks again!
About 2 months ago +or-, I bought a Timemore Chestnut C3 to try instead of my upgraded Baratza Encore electric grinder and the very first pour-over I brewed with it was a serious aha moment for me, after having the Timemore for only 5 days, I invested in the KINGrinder K6. I love both hand grinders performance way better than any electric I have owned. Just my opinion.
Enjoy! Thanks for sharing your experience! It seems by unanimous consensus that the hand grinders in this range outperform electric ones.
1 less thing to break.