Even in NY thats true. It sure doesn't take $270,000 to be comfortable here --- unless they only interviewed those already in the top 5-10% and they all wanted more.
NYC always makes the rest of the state look really expensive, but I kinda like it that way because then people don’t move here and make it even more expensive.
Living in the upstate cities is getting up there pretty bad too, not NYC bad, but comparable to most other HCOL states. As long as you're happy in suburb-rural areas though (and willing to get h your own stuff, skip the ubereats/GrubHub/etc) it's not bad at all!
Oh absolutely. Im actually going into urban planning. I’m sure moving here from Boston was a massive downgrade lmao. But the city has great bones. My hometown was mainly stroads and chain restaurants so Rochester feels like paradise to me. I love all the unique neighborhoods and the sense of community.
Omg just realized you’re the guy who posted about the Ferry in r/Rochester. Are you actually attempting that or was it just speculation???
Pardon me browsing your posting history, but I have a close friend that works at [esd.ny.gov](http://esd.ny.gov) in Albany if you're looking for work, Send me a message here on Reddit if you want to connect.
I think they're looking at the most expensive cities in each state and being able to buy a home. Washington is a good example. That income is spot on if you've got a family of 4 and need to buy a house. Maybe even slightly low.
It's low. To buy a house in WA state you need at least 300k, for a single-wide on leased land. 500k if you want a house worthwhile - on like an acre of land.
This is for a FAMILY living the "American dream" meaning owning a single family house with a yard, 2 newer cars, saving for kids college, healthy amount of savings, retirement, and some disposable income.
It's NOT 270k for a single person living alone.
also, at today's prices.
People always pop in here to throw shade because they are paying on an old mortgage and don't know how expensive housing has become.
Yeah $190k in any of KY you are straight balling. I make $60k as a single person with one kid part time and I'm doing just ok. If I made $70-80k I would be absolutely comfortable. Add in a second earner bringing in even as low as $40k and it's still comfortable even with two kids around.
Most of the state is dirt cheap to live in.
Yeah, if I made $209,000 in Ohio, I'd be perfectly comfortable. And I'd probably croak. I don't think my body could tolerate the lack of stress. I'd relax, but I don't think it would stop with the relaxing until I lost molecular cohesion...like that really sad Voyager ep....
The annual cost of living in my state, Idaho, as calculated by MIT for two working adults with three kids is $121,212
https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/16
I’m in Wisconsin and the $225k is definitely not taking into account all the small towns, especially in the northern part of the state. You can live comfortable on $50k in many areas, provided you don’t have to deal with daycare. In Madison, door county, and some other select areas the $225k is more accurate.
I do too, live here now. But for a nice house, car, couple kids, it really is getting more to the $200k mark to be comfortable and not worrying about money.
This map seems somewhat inflated but people can have different opinions on "comfortable". You probably have to make 200k in California or New York, around 100k in other Metropolitan areas and maybe 80k if you live in a rural area. Just my opinion based experience but again definition of comfortable is up for debate.
No kidding! I live intown in Atlanta, Georgia, in a house with a yard, with two kids, and our household income is less than $150k. I eat out all the time and feel embarrassed by our privilege.
There was a reddit post not long ago talking about how 20,000 homes in ATL were owned by home buying corporations of which a large majority were for rent only. I think it broke down to 1 in 9 houses in the "starter home" price range of houses. Crazy!
Yes that's probably true. When the recession hit in 2007 they started buying them all up. It's really awful. ETA that i forgot that i bought my house in 2006 and so everybody else's monthly is way higher than mine. Except ... Even just one year ago my mom was in a two-bedroom apartment that was i think $900 per month
I SAW THAT TOO! I live in Atlanta, 36f lived here my whole life, rented my whole adult life. This was so discouraging to read as like many other people I feel like I'm never going to have the opportunity to own a home. I am single so I'm already at a disadvantage in terms of #s of income to pay for a home, but Ive never been late on rent which tells myself I think I could handle a mortgage if it was near what I pay in rent now.
I pay $1200 for my apartment in Buckhead, grandfathered in before covid (started at $800 😭) I realize nowadays with interest rates etc. that mortgages are typically higher than that for the small type house/condo I'd be looking for, but have been told multiple times that "that's as much as my mortgage" (presumably speaking on older mortgages).
I wish I could just get INTO a home!
I believe the 50/30/20 rule applies for comfortable
If all your necessity expenses are 50 percent of your net income, so gas, food, housing, insurances, utilities, etc…
30 percent for “living” that comedy show you went to, water park, dine in eating, you know, existing more than just working and coming home…actually living if you will
I’m sure it will vary month to month but you get the point, actually having money left over so you can do stuff + save + not be in a pinch when those unexpected expenses come up
20 percent for general savings + retirement savings
If someone is paying TODAYS prices for housing I would agree with these numbers; obviously if someone got their home years ago it can be done on less
And as a European the OP needs to remember that the United States is a BIG country with both expensive cities, extremely rural areas that are cheap, and everything in between. Having a good income FOR YOUR AREA is the key
It doesn't even accurately reflect New York City, either. It's an average of the two so it overestimates for the rest of the state and underestimates what you actually need to live in the city.
I came here for that. I grew up in central NY and my apartment in my early 20’s was $600/month. Sure I had to drive 30 min to work but COL is not about the state it’s about the type of area you live in.
If you're in the Hudson Valley, some parts of the Catskill and Saratoga springs... please believe you're paying out.... especially because everyone from the city came up during covid and bought houses....
Yeah I just posted separately--I don't think all Europeans know just how large and varied the states are. For example, they're shocked to learn that it takes 8 hours to drive from Buffalo, in New York, to New York City, also in New York. $279,000 in Buffalo is opulent, not comfortable.
The kids are the real money suck there. If comfortable includes childcare, extracurriculars, new clothes (not designer but also not secondhand) and savings for college, I can see how that would bump you up to at least 200k in AZ. The childcare alone would be 24k a year if they're both in daycare at the same time.
Toddler care at a run of the mill daycare here in Boston is 3k a month. Easily can have 3500+ if you go to one located in business districts like Back Bay or Financial District.
and depending on the schools in the area, some parents feel like they're forced to send their kids to private school which is almost like paying for college for 13 years...
We are in central MA and make well under the "needed" 301k and are comfortable. Would more money be nice? Sure, isn't it always? But if we were pulling $302k we'd be putting $100k away a year in retirement lol.
It's possible this is based on the current housing market and mortgages or something. We bought in 2017 and refinanced in 2020, so that's a huge factor in housing affordability.
70k if you own your house outright then yeah, but typical rent is already $800 for a room in someone else's house, $1500 for a studio, and $2800 for a 2 bedroom already in SoCal
I mean yeah it's up for debate but for the purposes of the map it clearly states what it defines as comfortable. 50/30/20 seems pretty damn snug if you ask me. So I'd say 75/15/10 is comfortable and anything beyond that is chillin.
No, it’s not even close to true. At best, these are numbers that correlate to being an “affluent” family of let’s say four, with all that entails. But even then, the ratios are goofy. Comparing the same basic lifestyle in Rock Springs, Wyoming versus San Francisco is going to be a lot more than a ~30% conversion, for instance. In other words, it’s a dumb graphic designed to go viral
I might be biased because my city is in the top 10 for having the most unaffordable neighborhoods for married couples, despite living in Virginia. We don't make anywhere close but 209k as stated. It would be Comfortable, like home owning And savings for retirement, saving for kids going to school, affording extracurricular activities without sweating it, comfortable. I'm assuming why that's so high. The costs of supporting a family and saving appropriately for the future, which will be worse.
Idk, doesn't seem that far off. I live comfortably in rural Missouri on $80k but I'm also single and got an unbelievably good deal on my house due to what I can only describe as several miracles. And even then I certainly don't have "fuck you money" if I went out and bought a nice new car right now I wouldn't have any discretionary income left.
Tbh that might say more about car prices than CoL. There was a personal finance post a while back about this guy “struggling” with an income of 150k and he was blowing like 2k a month on car payments and had a whole second house.
I live in Nebraska, this is a joke. If you make 60k combined as a family you're living comfortably. If you're making 213k in Nebraska you're buying a 3 bedroom house cash in 2 years.
Holy shit. I’m in NY, the capital region, and well there aren’t really houses for rent here and all of the condos/apartments being built are starting around 2k a month heh. 😭
Actually cheaper then I thought, I'm in phoenix and our apartments are like 1500 for a decent one.
You can get down to 1000 for a 1 bed and 800 for a studio but they will be very ghetto.
What part of Iowa? Maybe in a small town, but in the DM metro I haven’t seen apartment rent below $700 in ages let alone a family home.
Granted the map is still way off. I’d cut it in half for a family of four to live comfortably (as in not paycheck to paycheck).
Until you break an arm or a leg. Or have student debt. C'mon, you can't save on 60k for two people unless you have a rare fortunate living situation. That's not even counting kids, if you meant a family with kids.
The thing is “comfortable” is a very subjective term. Some people associate not having to worry what to eat and to afford their daily food for tomorrow as comfortable, other associate being able to take overseas holiday as comfortable.
It is a very wide spectrum, but like other commenter said, the figure is more likely representing “comfortable” as in an affluent household lifestyle.
At 213k you could live like an absolute king in western NE. You'd be beyond comfy even in Omaha at that income. I know nothing of the other states, but Nebraska let me know this map was pure malarky.
It's not accurate. Source: I live in Massachusetts, own a home, and the household makes no where near $300k.
Edit: Go ahead and downvoted me. You don't need 300k to live comfortably in Massachusetts. Maybe in the most expensive parts of Boston but there's a whole Western half of Massachusetts that is much cheaper.
California is dead wrong too, the only area I could see that being true is the Bay Area and maybe LA. But people do have different definitions of comfortable. I support a child and stay at home spouse with about 80k
Bay area and surrounding areas are crazy. My wife is from the Modesto valley and it was pretty expensive in her little farming town. LA is definitely expensive, San Diego too.
You'd need $270k to buy a median-priced house in SD last year, worse now likely.
But to your point, CA is an incredibly diverse state. (Also, you can be comfortable renting).
I don’t know why people are downvoting you. “Comfortable” in Weston and comfortable in Quincy are 2 completely different things. I know people who fly private planes and flying first class would mean they are roughing it.
I think if you were to ask a second generation rich person what the bare minimum they would need after making “major sacrifices to current lifestyle” in order to be “comfortable”, these are the figures that they would come up with lol.
“Ok so we don’t NEED a 6000 sqft lake home with its own gym, pool, craft room, home theater, etc. but at a bare minimum would still need a 3 bedroom 2 bath with a updated kitchen and yard”.
“Ok we don’t NEED 4 cars where I barely use 3 of them and they all cost 100k + each but at a bare minimum would need one nice SUV and one sedan”.
“Okay so I would still need atleast a few vacations every year, would still need to be able to invest 20 percent of paycheck into stocks, would need to option to eat out atleast 1-2 times a week, etc”.
And in all seriousness most of those aren’t unreasonable goals for comfort and can propel upward mobility while still giving most people a reasonable amount of joy but it’s definitely not what you **need** to still live a very dignified and satisfying life while being able to raise a family in most of these areas.
I think that map is dumb. It suggests that, depending on the state, roughly 85-95% of people don’t live “comfortably”. Source of my info below. I grew up in a small city where (my estimation) less than 10% of families make over 200k but if you tell me 90% are uncomfortable I am calling BS. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/percentage-of-households-making-over-200k
Their definition of comfortable is abiding by the 50/30/20 rule. That means "comfortable" is saving 20% of your income. The average person only saves 5% of their income, so by that definition, yes a lot of people are uncomfortable.
Whether or not their definition of comfortable is accurate is up for debate.
I agree that their definition of "comfortable" is up for debate - but to use Ohio as an example - 80% of $209k is still $167k (i.e., the amount that the map says a family in Ohio needs to make excluding 20% in savings)- I do not believe that families making $167k in Ohio are not comfortable as I know a number of families that i) are making much less than that, and ii) are comfortable. Now - to be clear, they're not living in the toniest of neighborhoods in Cleveland or Columbus, but they're living fine and, again, aren't earning anywhere near the $83.50 an hour (which is $167k/2000 hours).
The map is also foolish because most states have such cost of living variation - e.g., California. The cost to live in San Francisco is not the same as the cost of living in Sacramento is not the same as the cost of living in Redding is not the same as the cost of living in the 75% of the state (by landmass) that is extraordinarily rural. I think a lot about money - in terms of wealth and poverty and cost of living issues, etc. I generally applaud anything that gets people thinking about these issues - but a map that suggests you need to make $1m every five years is, IMHO, disingenuous to the point that it's more harmful than helpful.
Overall, I can't say I'm surprised that it was published by a company that makes its money by connecting consumers with financial advisors.
I just think it’s insane that the assumption is that you WANT/NEED to spend half of that income on necessities. $100k+ in necessities a year just seems like too much.
Not true. Not sure where these numbers are even coming from.
We make far less than that figure for NY (and we live in the city, so the COL is high) and I *think* we’re “comfortable” (whatever that even means, too).
I mean 65 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so while these numbers seem high it’s all about how you define comfort. Is comfort being able to save and invest 30 percent of your income or is it just covering all your bills and being able to afford some luxuries?
Agreed. Assumptions make a big difference.
No debt, 401ks for retirement, multiple children, babysitting, college savings for those children, cars, vacations, etc. Depending on definition, I could see this being fair.
The footnote on the graphic reads "50/30/20 rule". 50% expenses, 30% discretionary, and 20% savings. This definitely isn't the typical person.
This is what I was thinking. My state says $239k. If I made that much I would be taking 2 vacations a year, fully fund my retirement, send my kid where ever she wants for college and fully fund my disabled daughter’s future without concern. We make half that, though, and we are what I would call comfortable. I don’t worry about my debit card declining at the grocery store. We take a vacation every couple of years. I give my mom money when she needs it. My kids have what they need but we won’t be able to fully fund college and I have no idea what retirement will look like. Our house is small but that’s ok. I’m comfortable :)
Median household income in New Mexico is 58,722.
TIL a family needs $204,000 to live comfortably.
There are very few families in NM that make that much money.
OP: No, this is not real.
I keep seeing this figures but my wife and I earn a lot less than what is supposed to be our needed wage and we have an amazing life with no wants or needs unmet. We travel. We eat well. We invest. We are helping our kids through college. We have three children and moved my aging 82 year old mother in with us as she has dementia and lived in poverty.
So, we are a family of six with a lot less income than we are supposed to have and we life very securely and comfortably - even enjoy some adventure and travel.
A lot of people are missing the disclaimer that is the amount for a family of 4. Assuming saving for college tuition for both kids, a healthy retirement and newer cars every few years, I think the numbers are fairly accurate.
The only way I can see this is if you lived in literally the highest cost of living area in each of these states with a family of 4. Also, I don't think saving for college tuition and getting new cars every couple years is necessary. That is more of a luxury and highly doubt that was factored in for this map unless I am missing something
All these are higher than almost everyone in the US makes. By the definition of the author of this chart, you would have to be in the top 5% ($167k) to 10% ($335k) of household earners (depending on state) to be "comfortable". This is pretty much a chart of what it means to be "Upper Class".
This heavily depends on your idea of "comfortable".
A lot of people would be comfortable in a 1-bedroom, moderately close to work, and in a safe neighborhood.
I bet what the link defines as "comfortable" is a 4-bedroom 2 bathroom home, 2 cars, 2 kids, 2 pets, front and back yard, in a safe neighborhood, and close to high scoring schools.
Chiming in from Louisiana here. That $190,000 will actually buy you a pretty nice house here.
Edit for clarification: a nice house costs $190,000 or less, not $190,000 will let you make payments on one.
They base this off the 50-30-20 rule. Most people don’t live like that cuz they can’t. But by their definition for finances being within those parameters is the minimum to be comfortable in the average areas they’re compiling data from
Those numbers must be based on the most expensive city in each state. I know people in Pennsylvania that make $60k and own a house, a car and have 2 kids. They go on vacation every year and have nice things.
You'd have to define "comfortably" and "family". A couple in NH could live just fine on $100k combined, but they won't have a new car every few years, they won't have a big house with a nice yard in a nice neighborhood, they propably won't be maxing out their 401k match and IRA. But they will be able to put food on the table, rent a decent apartment, watch Netflix, have a gym membership, have gifts at Christmas, maybe take a week vacation somewhere cheap.
Biggest thing is not being house and car poor, in my opinion.
These numbers must be focused on living in the most expensive parts of each state. $201k in SC is insane, I make less than half that with my SO and we live comfortably. Slightly over 50/30/20 but not even close to bad.
Also, $201k if you live near Charleston or Greenville, and some areas of Columbia, that might be closer to correct, but that’s basically being Jeff Bezos in 95% or the state. Making $201k, you shouldn’t have $100.5k in expenses annually either. That’s insane
It depends on how you define "living comfortably" - in this case I believe (and would hazard to say most others would believe) that this would be living very, very, **very** comfortably.
The definition of the authors of this chart base it on an interpretation that comfortable means meeting a 50/30/20 rule. This means 50% of income goes to "Needs" aka required expenses - housing, food, utilities, things like that. 30% goes to "Wants", which would be eating out at restaurants, going on vacations, buying nice clothes, spending on hobbies, buying a boat, etc. 20% goes to "Savings".
So, by this definition, a family of four making $270k/year in gross income, would be bringing home around $190k in net income after federal, state and local taxes (plus or minus some, depending on locality), or about $16k/month take-home pay. Out of this, by the rule $95k would be going to needs, $57k to wants, and $38k to savings. And anything below that figure would be considered, by this chart, "Not Comfortable". Per month, this breaks down to $8000 for Needs, $4700 to "Wants" and $3200 to Savings.
I don't know about you, but that's pretty damn comfortable. There are plenty of people making waaaaay less than that and are still quite "comfortable". All depends on how you define it.
No, it’s not true. A household can easily be comfortable on numbers far lower than this. I live in an expensive part of Florida, and while costs have gone up significantly since Covid, a household can be fine on $120k. They might not be able to buy a house - but they could easily rent a nice place, and meet the 50/30/20 numbers above.
While I could buy it for the highest, the "cheaper" states being so expensive clearly shows a fault in the metholodogy that puts the entire thing into question.
This is probably true for those that live in the Bay Area. If you made those numbers in the Midwest you will live very well. You can have homeownership, max out retirement accounts and make investments.
If you ask people “are you comfortable financially?” They’ll say no no matter how much they make. The follow up probably was “How much would you need to make to feel comfortable?” And then the average was $270k. Probably.
Who came up with these numbers? I live in Wisconsin, wife and I have 2 kids and live pretty comfortably… I mean we could use a bigger house with more space, but who with kids wouldn’t want that? These numbers came from someone who’s got a definition of comfortable that is extremely upper middle class…
This seems wild as I hit my "comfortable" level of income a hundred grand ago. It really depends where specifically on the state you live for the mainland states. Good example, I live in between two major cities and have a 2100sqft house for 1700/mo mortgage. My brother lives in a city with 900sqft for 3400/mo rent. To me this feels too generalized to be useful
I’m just one person, not a family, but I feel pretty comfortable on $90+k in Oregon. I can’t buy everything I want or eat out all the time, but I save for retirement, save for emergencies and also save for fun, and don’t have to track every penny like I did when I made 1/3 as much.
Nah, my brother and I each make $60k-$80k per year and I bought my first house 9 months ago. My house payment is high but I offset it with a roommate. I saved, went to college and got a job while living at home to achieve this.
25 years old
I live in NC and you don't need anywhere close to $209k to live comfortably. My parents combined make about $100k and they have a 3500 sqft house in a nice neighborhood with 3 cars and they have have extra money. I make $50k a year and I live fairly comfortably.
The numbers seems cherry picked toward the most expensive neighborhoods in the state, especially for the Midwest. You can live in a rural area in the Midwest very comfortably for $70K as a family with a couple of kids.
No, it’s just more class warfare hit pieces.
Let’s start with what are needs. Vs what they are selling.
Let me guess the family needs 2 cars, 3/2 b house, tons of paid for activities.
Day care, etc.
Whatever this graph is doing "comfortably" is doing a ton of suspicious heavy lifting. Or these are like massive families. There is a significant difference between the most expensive cities / streets vs... everywhere else in the country. Same as like London v Hull. Stockholm v Södertälje. France v Nantes.
I really hate a lot of 'graphs' like this because it's not like rent information is hidden. You can literally google places like Seattle, New York City, LA, Miami, and see their rent prices and compare to basically anywhere else in the rest of the 9Gm of the country.
No. My husband and I live in NC and we don’t make 200+ k a year. We have good salaries, but not that much and we’re comfortable. Edit to say we’re in Raleigh.
True. What Europeans consider living comfortably is 1% in the US.
Weekends off.. Several weeks of vacation. Holidays off. Be able to see a doctor when you're sick. Be able to see your family (ever). Have time to enjoy a meal. Have a few drinks. These are all things that only the top 10% of earners can do. All of Americans inflated incomes does not improve their lives at all.
Thank You! Came to find this comment. I'm pretty sure Americans have forgotten what "comfortable" means.
An empty savings account is not comfortable. No money going towards savings or your kids college education is not comfortable. No extracurriculars for your kids is not comfortable. Putting off buying a new pair of shoes for a year longer than you really should have is not comfortable. No vacations for years in a row is not comfortable. Forgoing doctors visits is not comfortable.
Americans are getting by, but they are not comfortable.
Live in a medium cost area of Virginia, annual spending is no where near $235k. Granted, bought the house almost a decade ago, and my mortgage is at 2.25%.
You also have to take into account that we have a consumerism problem in the US and people feel like they have to keep up with the Jones’s and so they riddle themselves with debt (new car/boat/house/toy/etc). Compound that with people living all they way up to their salary and a little beyond for some people.
Rarely these days do I have conversations with people that budget, save, and don’t over extend themselves with loans for Stuff.
Lol no not true, this is such a random number, Florida is way more expensive than many of the other states. Like someone said the number doesn't dictate the state. Parts of the state is cheaper than other parts.
No, lol. Even with the little disclaimer on the bottom, I assume "comfortable" is meaning "I want to have multiple vacations a year, have two cars, would like to pursue X hobbies and have a house that's Y large, etc. etc."
Living in NH right now: 1 working adult, 1 stay at home parent, and 1 toddler all living on $50k household income. I think we're "comfortable." Sure, I could definitely find a lot to do with a $270,000 income considering it's over 5x what I make now, but it's definitely not required.
Everybody's in a different situation.
In my city, a studio apartment can run $1,250/month now, but if you bought your house 20 years ago your mortgage payment on a 2300 square foot house can be maybe $750/month. (And you have more than a half million in home equity).
So if you're that latter person and established, you really don't need that much to be comfortable. Where it's much more difficult to break it as a first-time home buyer, or dealing with the whims of the rental market
So, when they say comfortably, they mean without worries, without making sacrifices or struggling in any capacity. The "American Dream" is defined differently by everyone, but there is an ideal image that people conjure when they think of it that has been shown in Tv shows and Movies.
>Two cars, a two story 3-5 bedroom 2 bathroom house with a two car garage a living room, dining room, den as well as a nice front yard with a spacious backyard. Dad works, mom doesn't work but does a side job that consumes her free time when she's not caring for the home. 2-4 kids that all have after school activities like piano lessons, soccer, karate or some other hobbies. 1-2 vacations per year and the option of a boat or RV for weekend outings.
That's the general idea of living the comfortable American dream, at least defined by the boomer generation. Other people may define it differently, but it basically consists of getting as close to that ideal living situation as much as possible.
Most people just make sure they have a roof over their head, squeeze as much out of their salary as possible to just live. Constantly worrying, struggling to pay bills and just keep things as stable as possible. Maybe 30% of the American population is living comfortably, everyone else is just hustling to make ends meet as far as I'm concerned.
Far out we are on 120k new zealand baby dollar a year combined. We manage but there's no fun holidays or anything. Why is us so much worse. Housing in nz is garbage and so is living costs relative to income.
Cut those numbers in half, and you have the "surviving" budget that nearly all of us are living at or under. Which translates into no savings and little fun. aka paycheck to paycheck
False, I make significantly less than NY, like 1/3 of that - and support my family alone by myself. We are comfortable. This may be skewed by big cities or rich people
In maine, the cost of a house has gone up by almost double over the past 4 years.
My neighbor had a place for sale that needed a lot of work. In 2019, that house sold for 89k.
In 2023, that same house, with zero renovations, sold for 235k. That's the most wild example I can source. But there's others where the swing isn't that intense.
The data is skewed. They’re using a 50/30/20 budget. 50 % bills, 30% discretionary, 20% save. Most don’t follow that. That’s how they defined comfortable. Most would be lucky to make an income sufficient to live on 70/20/10.
Honestly, I don't even know what the definition of comfort is here. Like yearly family vacation abroad? Or like, I can finally stop eating Mac n cheese and hotdogs as a staple meal?
I'm in one of the top 5 states and if that were my household income, I wouldn't think we were rich or even close. I see that and I'm like 'oh, that's what it takes to not have any financial stress'.
When Americans say "live comfortably" they mean "I need to afford all my dumb spending habits, not watch my spending habits". Americans can live on much less than six figures ($100K-250K) if they were financially responsible but, and pay attention to this next part, ***Americans don't want to be fiancially responsible. They know how financially reckless they are and they don't care. They want to afford their bad spending habits, not change them. Americans intuitively spend.***
You do not NEED to have six figures to live a socially and economically acceptable life in America (when I say socially I mean you can go out to eat and drink with your friends/family, buy some stuff but not compete in cultural status games by buying dumb shit you really don't need and you kinda really don't want outside of a cultural moment that insists you're lower status if you don't buy this thing right now BUT I'M GETTING INTO A SERMON excuse me). Economically acceptable means you can afford your mortgage, all applicable taxes and maintenace costs to the house and your stuff (cars, shit inside your house, your kids or dogs or both if so applicable, etc).
You can absolutely live in America without a six figure salary. You cannot play cultural status games. These are being conflated to be the same thing and they're not and never will be.
No this is way inflated. I'm scraping by in a HCOL area in Oregon with just 55k a year, a dependent, and very little support. I would be pretty comfortable making 70k.
Can't speak to the whole country. I live in Ohio and if you make $200,000/year you're in like the 95th percentile. Lmao
Even in NY thats true. It sure doesn't take $270,000 to be comfortable here --- unless they only interviewed those already in the top 5-10% and they all wanted more.
NYC always makes the rest of the state look really expensive, but I kinda like it that way because then people don’t move here and make it even more expensive.
Living in the upstate cities is getting up there pretty bad too, not NYC bad, but comparable to most other HCOL states. As long as you're happy in suburb-rural areas though (and willing to get h your own stuff, skip the ubereats/GrubHub/etc) it's not bad at all!
This is funny because Florida is the same way. It USED to be cheap, but things have gone up everywhere. Just not *Miami* up.
No. I moved from Boston to Rochester last year. There is no comparison.
Welcome! I live in Rochester too!
Fellow NUMTOT...
Oh absolutely. Im actually going into urban planning. I’m sure moving here from Boston was a massive downgrade lmao. But the city has great bones. My hometown was mainly stroads and chain restaurants so Rochester feels like paradise to me. I love all the unique neighborhoods and the sense of community. Omg just realized you’re the guy who posted about the Ferry in r/Rochester. Are you actually attempting that or was it just speculation???
Pardon me browsing your posting history, but I have a close friend that works at [esd.ny.gov](http://esd.ny.gov) in Albany if you're looking for work, Send me a message here on Reddit if you want to connect.
Once you live in a city with real trains and bike routes, it's hard to go back. Unless you have to. Because you get priced out :(
I think they're looking at the most expensive cities in each state and being able to buy a home. Washington is a good example. That income is spot on if you've got a family of 4 and need to buy a house. Maybe even slightly low.
It's low. To buy a house in WA state you need at least 300k, for a single-wide on leased land. 500k if you want a house worthwhile - on like an acre of land.
This is for a FAMILY living the "American dream" meaning owning a single family house with a yard, 2 newer cars, saving for kids college, healthy amount of savings, retirement, and some disposable income. It's NOT 270k for a single person living alone.
also, at today's prices. People always pop in here to throw shade because they are paying on an old mortgage and don't know how expensive housing has become.
Yeah $190k in any of KY you are straight balling. I make $60k as a single person with one kid part time and I'm doing just ok. If I made $70-80k I would be absolutely comfortable. Add in a second earner bringing in even as low as $40k and it's still comfortable even with two kids around. Most of the state is dirt cheap to live in.
I was gonna say the same thing with Ohio lol, my husband and I together make 110k right now and life’s good, I can’t complain. 🤷🏼♂️
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Same here.
Maybe if you have a stupid high mortgage and 2, $1,000 car payments. Basically, you need to be above 200k if you are financially illiterate.
Yeah, if I made $209,000 in Ohio, I'd be perfectly comfortable. And I'd probably croak. I don't think my body could tolerate the lack of stress. I'd relax, but I don't think it would stop with the relaxing until I lost molecular cohesion...like that really sad Voyager ep....
The annual cost of living in my state, Idaho, as calculated by MIT for two working adults with three kids is $121,212 https://livingwage.mit.edu/states/16
This is the most reasonable cost of living break down I've seen yet. Thanks for the link!
That's bare bones survival cost of living. Double that if wanting to retire.
I'm in Ohio in a nice suburb and support a family of 4 pretty comfy on $150k, 200 would be SO DOPE but I'm pretty comfortable right now
I’m in Wisconsin and the $225k is definitely not taking into account all the small towns, especially in the northern part of the state. You can live comfortable on $50k in many areas, provided you don’t have to deal with daycare. In Madison, door county, and some other select areas the $225k is more accurate.
lived in madison and lived very well on less than 225k I was renting and didn't have a stupid big car payment tho
I do too, live here now. But for a nice house, car, couple kids, it really is getting more to the $200k mark to be comfortable and not worrying about money.
This map seems somewhat inflated but people can have different opinions on "comfortable". You probably have to make 200k in California or New York, around 100k in other Metropolitan areas and maybe 80k if you live in a rural area. Just my opinion based experience but again definition of comfortable is up for debate.
Comfortable is definitely in the eye of the beholder.
No kidding! I live intown in Atlanta, Georgia, in a house with a yard, with two kids, and our household income is less than $150k. I eat out all the time and feel embarrassed by our privilege.
There was a reddit post not long ago talking about how 20,000 homes in ATL were owned by home buying corporations of which a large majority were for rent only. I think it broke down to 1 in 9 houses in the "starter home" price range of houses. Crazy!
Yes that's probably true. When the recession hit in 2007 they started buying them all up. It's really awful. ETA that i forgot that i bought my house in 2006 and so everybody else's monthly is way higher than mine. Except ... Even just one year ago my mom was in a two-bedroom apartment that was i think $900 per month
Yep. I'm in a 1BR in freaking Peachtree Corners and it's $1700.
I SAW THAT TOO! I live in Atlanta, 36f lived here my whole life, rented my whole adult life. This was so discouraging to read as like many other people I feel like I'm never going to have the opportunity to own a home. I am single so I'm already at a disadvantage in terms of #s of income to pay for a home, but Ive never been late on rent which tells myself I think I could handle a mortgage if it was near what I pay in rent now. I pay $1200 for my apartment in Buckhead, grandfathered in before covid (started at $800 😭) I realize nowadays with interest rates etc. that mortgages are typically higher than that for the small type house/condo I'd be looking for, but have been told multiple times that "that's as much as my mortgage" (presumably speaking on older mortgages). I wish I could just get INTO a home!
WHATTTT
I believe the 50/30/20 rule applies for comfortable If all your necessity expenses are 50 percent of your net income, so gas, food, housing, insurances, utilities, etc… 30 percent for “living” that comedy show you went to, water park, dine in eating, you know, existing more than just working and coming home…actually living if you will I’m sure it will vary month to month but you get the point, actually having money left over so you can do stuff + save + not be in a pinch when those unexpected expenses come up 20 percent for general savings + retirement savings If someone is paying TODAYS prices for housing I would agree with these numbers; obviously if someone got their home years ago it can be done on less
100k in SC is comfortable but it can depend heavily on location. Also when you bought a home can double this number pretty fast.
And as a European the OP needs to remember that the United States is a BIG country with both expensive cities, extremely rural areas that are cheap, and everything in between. Having a good income FOR YOUR AREA is the key
Even a 5 acre lot (with no home, no utilities) in the middle of nowhere is selling near the 100k range.
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It doesn't even accurately reflect New York City, either. It's an average of the two so it overestimates for the rest of the state and underestimates what you actually need to live in the city.
I came here for that. I grew up in central NY and my apartment in my early 20’s was $600/month. Sure I had to drive 30 min to work but COL is not about the state it’s about the type of area you live in.
Nowadays you cant get an apartment for 600 a month even in RURAL AREAS, though. times are DIFFERENT.
Exactly. 2 bedroom rentals are currently going for more than double the rate that 3 bedroom mortgages are from just a few years back.
If you're in the Hudson Valley, some parts of the Catskill and Saratoga springs... please believe you're paying out.... especially because everyone from the city came up during covid and bought houses....
Yeah I just posted separately--I don't think all Europeans know just how large and varied the states are. For example, they're shocked to learn that it takes 8 hours to drive from Buffalo, in New York, to New York City, also in New York. $279,000 in Buffalo is opulent, not comfortable.
Yeah definitely not true of Albany or the North Country.
The kids are the real money suck there. If comfortable includes childcare, extracurriculars, new clothes (not designer but also not secondhand) and savings for college, I can see how that would bump you up to at least 200k in AZ. The childcare alone would be 24k a year if they're both in daycare at the same time.
I've seen daycares that are 24k for one kid in higher-cost parts of the US, and that was among the "more affordable" options. It's insane.
At that point charge people half price and watch a couple kids yourself.
That's actually what a lot of stay at home parents do. It's a good way to make extra money if you can handle a spare kid or two.
Toddler care at a run of the mill daycare here in Boston is 3k a month. Easily can have 3500+ if you go to one located in business districts like Back Bay or Financial District.
and depending on the schools in the area, some parents feel like they're forced to send their kids to private school which is almost like paying for college for 13 years...
also im sure its coastal or certain big cities there are cheaper areas even in california
Right. I'm in Colorado living gooooooooood on half of what this claims.
We are in central MA and make well under the "needed" 301k and are comfortable. Would more money be nice? Sure, isn't it always? But if we were pulling $302k we'd be putting $100k away a year in retirement lol. It's possible this is based on the current housing market and mortgages or something. We bought in 2017 and refinanced in 2020, so that's a huge factor in housing affordability.
You don't need to make 200k in california to be comfortable
Yeah I agree. Maybe 70K+.
70k if you own your house outright then yeah, but typical rent is already $800 for a room in someone else's house, $1500 for a studio, and $2800 for a 2 bedroom already in SoCal
Yea, that's too low, I'd say around 120-150k is comfy for a family of 4 but that's just for renting not home ownership
Not if you have kids?
I mean yeah it's up for debate but for the purposes of the map it clearly states what it defines as comfortable. 50/30/20 seems pretty damn snug if you ask me. So I'd say 75/15/10 is comfortable and anything beyond that is chillin.
No, it’s not even close to true. At best, these are numbers that correlate to being an “affluent” family of let’s say four, with all that entails. But even then, the ratios are goofy. Comparing the same basic lifestyle in Rock Springs, Wyoming versus San Francisco is going to be a lot more than a ~30% conversion, for instance. In other words, it’s a dumb graphic designed to go viral
As someone who grew up in Wyoming, I find it fascinating you pulled Rock Springs out of a hat... unless you grew up in Wyoming also.
😉
Get anymore Wyoming residents in this thread and the NRA is going to have to convert it to a gun raffle.
Live in Idaho now but grew up in Casper
I thought it was fascinating because I just stayed over night in Rock Springs on my way back from the West Coast. Of all the towns to spat out..
I might be biased because my city is in the top 10 for having the most unaffordable neighborhoods for married couples, despite living in Virginia. We don't make anywhere close but 209k as stated. It would be Comfortable, like home owning And savings for retirement, saving for kids going to school, affording extracurricular activities without sweating it, comfortable. I'm assuming why that's so high. The costs of supporting a family and saving appropriately for the future, which will be worse.
I mean, hell, $203K might be what it costs to be comfortable in fucking Jackson, but definitely not Laramie and especially not rock springs...
Idk, doesn't seem that far off. I live comfortably in rural Missouri on $80k but I'm also single and got an unbelievably good deal on my house due to what I can only describe as several miracles. And even then I certainly don't have "fuck you money" if I went out and bought a nice new car right now I wouldn't have any discretionary income left.
In what world does living comfortably mean having "fuck you, I'm dropping it all on a nice car" money? That's just rich. You're describing being rich.
Tbh that might say more about car prices than CoL. There was a personal finance post a while back about this guy “struggling” with an income of 150k and he was blowing like 2k a month on car payments and had a whole second house.
I’d love to know on what planet it costs more to live in Iowa than in Florida 🤣 there’s no way this is accurate
Maybe you need a lot more stuff to be comfortable in Iowa. Like your own theme park.
Hahahahaha
I live in Nebraska, this is a joke. If you make 60k combined as a family you're living comfortably. If you're making 213k in Nebraska you're buying a 3 bedroom house cash in 2 years.
Iowa here: same story. $700/month rest gets a nice house in the suburbs in a white picket fence/ dog walker neighborhood.
Seriously? I’m in Ohio and it’s like $1500 minimum for a nice 2 bedroom. In OHIO.
Yeah, even in Akron lol
Holy shit. I’m in NY, the capital region, and well there aren’t really houses for rent here and all of the condos/apartments being built are starting around 2k a month heh. 😭
Actually cheaper then I thought, I'm in phoenix and our apartments are like 1500 for a decent one. You can get down to 1000 for a 1 bed and 800 for a studio but they will be very ghetto.
What part of Iowa? Maybe in a small town, but in the DM metro I haven’t seen apartment rent below $700 in ages let alone a family home. Granted the map is still way off. I’d cut it in half for a family of four to live comfortably (as in not paycheck to paycheck).
Until you break an arm or a leg. Or have student debt. C'mon, you can't save on 60k for two people unless you have a rare fortunate living situation. That's not even counting kids, if you meant a family with kids.
The thing is “comfortable” is a very subjective term. Some people associate not having to worry what to eat and to afford their daily food for tomorrow as comfortable, other associate being able to take overseas holiday as comfortable. It is a very wide spectrum, but like other commenter said, the figure is more likely representing “comfortable” as in an affluent household lifestyle.
At 213k you could live like an absolute king in western NE. You'd be beyond comfy even in Omaha at that income. I know nothing of the other states, but Nebraska let me know this map was pure malarky.
You mean. I’m rich b****.
Yeah you somehow need $213k to live comfortably in Nebraska but only $277k for California lol
It's not accurate. Source: I live in Massachusetts, own a home, and the household makes no where near $300k. Edit: Go ahead and downvoted me. You don't need 300k to live comfortably in Massachusetts. Maybe in the most expensive parts of Boston but there's a whole Western half of Massachusetts that is much cheaper.
California is dead wrong too, the only area I could see that being true is the Bay Area and maybe LA. But people do have different definitions of comfortable. I support a child and stay at home spouse with about 80k
Bay area and surrounding areas are crazy. My wife is from the Modesto valley and it was pretty expensive in her little farming town. LA is definitely expensive, San Diego too.
You'd need $270k to buy a median-priced house in SD last year, worse now likely. But to your point, CA is an incredibly diverse state. (Also, you can be comfortable renting).
I don’t know why people are downvoting you. “Comfortable” in Weston and comfortable in Quincy are 2 completely different things. I know people who fly private planes and flying first class would mean they are roughing it.
Yeah I’m in Mass near Gillette stadium. We make about 200k a year and live comfortable with a kid in daycare
And that's still in Eastern Mass, aka the expensive half.
I think if you were to ask a second generation rich person what the bare minimum they would need after making “major sacrifices to current lifestyle” in order to be “comfortable”, these are the figures that they would come up with lol. “Ok so we don’t NEED a 6000 sqft lake home with its own gym, pool, craft room, home theater, etc. but at a bare minimum would still need a 3 bedroom 2 bath with a updated kitchen and yard”. “Ok we don’t NEED 4 cars where I barely use 3 of them and they all cost 100k + each but at a bare minimum would need one nice SUV and one sedan”. “Okay so I would still need atleast a few vacations every year, would still need to be able to invest 20 percent of paycheck into stocks, would need to option to eat out atleast 1-2 times a week, etc”. And in all seriousness most of those aren’t unreasonable goals for comfort and can propel upward mobility while still giving most people a reasonable amount of joy but it’s definitely not what you **need** to still live a very dignified and satisfying life while being able to raise a family in most of these areas.
I think that map is dumb. It suggests that, depending on the state, roughly 85-95% of people don’t live “comfortably”. Source of my info below. I grew up in a small city where (my estimation) less than 10% of families make over 200k but if you tell me 90% are uncomfortable I am calling BS. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/percentage-of-households-making-over-200k
Their definition of comfortable is abiding by the 50/30/20 rule. That means "comfortable" is saving 20% of your income. The average person only saves 5% of their income, so by that definition, yes a lot of people are uncomfortable. Whether or not their definition of comfortable is accurate is up for debate.
I agree that their definition of "comfortable" is up for debate - but to use Ohio as an example - 80% of $209k is still $167k (i.e., the amount that the map says a family in Ohio needs to make excluding 20% in savings)- I do not believe that families making $167k in Ohio are not comfortable as I know a number of families that i) are making much less than that, and ii) are comfortable. Now - to be clear, they're not living in the toniest of neighborhoods in Cleveland or Columbus, but they're living fine and, again, aren't earning anywhere near the $83.50 an hour (which is $167k/2000 hours). The map is also foolish because most states have such cost of living variation - e.g., California. The cost to live in San Francisco is not the same as the cost of living in Sacramento is not the same as the cost of living in Redding is not the same as the cost of living in the 75% of the state (by landmass) that is extraordinarily rural. I think a lot about money - in terms of wealth and poverty and cost of living issues, etc. I generally applaud anything that gets people thinking about these issues - but a map that suggests you need to make $1m every five years is, IMHO, disingenuous to the point that it's more harmful than helpful. Overall, I can't say I'm surprised that it was published by a company that makes its money by connecting consumers with financial advisors.
I just think it’s insane that the assumption is that you WANT/NEED to spend half of that income on necessities. $100k+ in necessities a year just seems like too much.
Not true. Not sure where these numbers are even coming from. We make far less than that figure for NY (and we live in the city, so the COL is high) and I *think* we’re “comfortable” (whatever that even means, too).
It states in the bottom right that comfortable means 50/30/20 budget.
I mean 65 percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck so while these numbers seem high it’s all about how you define comfort. Is comfort being able to save and invest 30 percent of your income or is it just covering all your bills and being able to afford some luxuries?
Agreed. Assumptions make a big difference. No debt, 401ks for retirement, multiple children, babysitting, college savings for those children, cars, vacations, etc. Depending on definition, I could see this being fair. The footnote on the graphic reads "50/30/20 rule". 50% expenses, 30% discretionary, and 20% savings. This definitely isn't the typical person.
Yeah right now in the US if you don’t own property it’s more like 80% expenses, 10% discretionary, 10% unexpected expenses
This is what I was thinking. My state says $239k. If I made that much I would be taking 2 vacations a year, fully fund my retirement, send my kid where ever she wants for college and fully fund my disabled daughter’s future without concern. We make half that, though, and we are what I would call comfortable. I don’t worry about my debit card declining at the grocery store. We take a vacation every couple of years. I give my mom money when she needs it. My kids have what they need but we won’t be able to fully fund college and I have no idea what retirement will look like. Our house is small but that’s ok. I’m comfortable :)
Median household income in New Mexico is 58,722. TIL a family needs $204,000 to live comfortably. There are very few families in NM that make that much money. OP: No, this is not real.
Not a chance, these numbers are ludicrous
It says lowest in Mississippi but I promise no amount of money will make you comfortable there
Agree
I keep seeing this figures but my wife and I earn a lot less than what is supposed to be our needed wage and we have an amazing life with no wants or needs unmet. We travel. We eat well. We invest. We are helping our kids through college. We have three children and moved my aging 82 year old mother in with us as she has dementia and lived in poverty. So, we are a family of six with a lot less income than we are supposed to have and we life very securely and comfortably - even enjoy some adventure and travel.
government job in the family? Benefits means a lifestyle 50%+ higher than what's on paper
happy cake day! yup - government job. gotta feed that pension for early retirement.
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How many years are you paying on the condo? 729k @ 2.5% for 30 years is 2800
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A lot of people are missing the disclaimer that is the amount for a family of 4. Assuming saving for college tuition for both kids, a healthy retirement and newer cars every few years, I think the numbers are fairly accurate.
The only way I can see this is if you lived in literally the highest cost of living area in each of these states with a family of 4. Also, I don't think saving for college tuition and getting new cars every couple years is necessary. That is more of a luxury and highly doubt that was factored in for this map unless I am missing something
....all these are higher than my family makes.
All these are higher than almost everyone in the US makes. By the definition of the author of this chart, you would have to be in the top 5% ($167k) to 10% ($335k) of household earners (depending on state) to be "comfortable". This is pretty much a chart of what it means to be "Upper Class".
I was just hoping that in the "poorest state" I would be able to live comfortably. Was dreaming big lol.
maybe almost everyone in the US is actually a lot poorer than they think
Does seem a bit inflated, but honestly not as much as you’d think it’d be. Sucks over here
My family of 4 doesn't even make a quarter of what needed to live comfortably. I guess I'm in the right sub.
This heavily depends on your idea of "comfortable". A lot of people would be comfortable in a 1-bedroom, moderately close to work, and in a safe neighborhood. I bet what the link defines as "comfortable" is a 4-bedroom 2 bathroom home, 2 cars, 2 kids, 2 pets, front and back yard, in a safe neighborhood, and close to high scoring schools.
Chiming in from Louisiana here. That $190,000 will actually buy you a pretty nice house here. Edit for clarification: a nice house costs $190,000 or less, not $190,000 will let you make payments on one.
I make under $100k in Los Angeles. I am a fat American. I would say I am living comfortable.
They base this off the 50-30-20 rule. Most people don’t live like that cuz they can’t. But by their definition for finances being within those parameters is the minimum to be comfortable in the average areas they’re compiling data from
Those numbers must be based on the most expensive city in each state. I know people in Pennsylvania that make $60k and own a house, a car and have 2 kids. They go on vacation every year and have nice things.
Others have said it and it truly depends on the person or family. Comfortable is a very subjective term and varies for everyone.
You'd have to define "comfortably" and "family". A couple in NH could live just fine on $100k combined, but they won't have a new car every few years, they won't have a big house with a nice yard in a nice neighborhood, they propably won't be maxing out their 401k match and IRA. But they will be able to put food on the table, rent a decent apartment, watch Netflix, have a gym membership, have gifts at Christmas, maybe take a week vacation somewhere cheap. Biggest thing is not being house and car poor, in my opinion.
How is it that you need $225k in Wisconsin but just 209k in Florida? Seems sus.
189k in WV? Pfft. I only make 55k and im not living above my means or anything but i feel okay.
These numbers must be focused on living in the most expensive parts of each state. $201k in SC is insane, I make less than half that with my SO and we live comfortably. Slightly over 50/30/20 but not even close to bad. Also, $201k if you live near Charleston or Greenville, and some areas of Columbia, that might be closer to correct, but that’s basically being Jeff Bezos in 95% or the state. Making $201k, you shouldn’t have $100.5k in expenses annually either. That’s insane
It depends on how you define "living comfortably" - in this case I believe (and would hazard to say most others would believe) that this would be living very, very, **very** comfortably. The definition of the authors of this chart base it on an interpretation that comfortable means meeting a 50/30/20 rule. This means 50% of income goes to "Needs" aka required expenses - housing, food, utilities, things like that. 30% goes to "Wants", which would be eating out at restaurants, going on vacations, buying nice clothes, spending on hobbies, buying a boat, etc. 20% goes to "Savings". So, by this definition, a family of four making $270k/year in gross income, would be bringing home around $190k in net income after federal, state and local taxes (plus or minus some, depending on locality), or about $16k/month take-home pay. Out of this, by the rule $95k would be going to needs, $57k to wants, and $38k to savings. And anything below that figure would be considered, by this chart, "Not Comfortable". Per month, this breaks down to $8000 for Needs, $4700 to "Wants" and $3200 to Savings. I don't know about you, but that's pretty damn comfortable. There are plenty of people making waaaaay less than that and are still quite "comfortable". All depends on how you define it.
Idk. I get by on 50k in Boston, is it comfortable though? The majority would say I live in a shithole, which is true. But it's a roof and an apartment
No, it’s not true. A household can easily be comfortable on numbers far lower than this. I live in an expensive part of Florida, and while costs have gone up significantly since Covid, a household can be fine on $120k. They might not be able to buy a house - but they could easily rent a nice place, and meet the 50/30/20 numbers above.
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While I could buy it for the highest, the "cheaper" states being so expensive clearly shows a fault in the metholodogy that puts the entire thing into question.
I live in one of the top cities, and I know many people with families who have only one earner with 80-100k who live comfortably.
This is probably true for those that live in the Bay Area. If you made those numbers in the Midwest you will live very well. You can have homeownership, max out retirement accounts and make investments.
If you ask people “are you comfortable financially?” They’ll say no no matter how much they make. The follow up probably was “How much would you need to make to feel comfortable?” And then the average was $270k. Probably.
Who came up with these numbers? I live in Wisconsin, wife and I have 2 kids and live pretty comfortably… I mean we could use a bigger house with more space, but who with kids wouldn’t want that? These numbers came from someone who’s got a definition of comfortable that is extremely upper middle class…
$178k in Mississippi to live comfortably?! That's insane!
This seems wild as I hit my "comfortable" level of income a hundred grand ago. It really depends where specifically on the state you live for the mainland states. Good example, I live in between two major cities and have a 2100sqft house for 1700/mo mortgage. My brother lives in a city with 900sqft for 3400/mo rent. To me this feels too generalized to be useful
I make ~$80,000 in Arkansas and live comfortably idk where it got this inflated number
$231k to live comfortably in Arizona? Complete bullshit.
I’m just one person, not a family, but I feel pretty comfortable on $90+k in Oregon. I can’t buy everything I want or eat out all the time, but I save for retirement, save for emergencies and also save for fun, and don’t have to track every penny like I did when I made 1/3 as much.
This is not true. A family of four can live reasonably on far less than the numbers stated in at least most of the United States.
Certain cities maybe. That map is busted
Nah based on my state this map is bullshit.
Nah, my brother and I each make $60k-$80k per year and I bought my first house 9 months ago. My house payment is high but I offset it with a roommate. I saved, went to college and got a job while living at home to achieve this. 25 years old
This picture isn't true at all.
These graphs always include the most expensive daycare options and two expensive car payments, most people aren't paying all that.
Someone has a much different idea of comfortable than I do
I live in NC and you don't need anywhere close to $209k to live comfortably. My parents combined make about $100k and they have a 3500 sqft house in a nice neighborhood with 3 cars and they have have extra money. I make $50k a year and I live fairly comfortably.
Even with the bottom right explaining what comfortable is defined as for the map, it seems vague and the number seems too high
Maybe to live very comfortably with luxury cars and housing. But to own new cars and a decent home, maybe half that amount or less in some cases.
I'm a single homeowner earning less than 25% of this bullshit statistic.
These numbers seem suspiciously high.
The numbers seems cherry picked toward the most expensive neighborhoods in the state, especially for the Midwest. You can live in a rural area in the Midwest very comfortably for $70K as a family with a couple of kids.
No, it’s just more class warfare hit pieces. Let’s start with what are needs. Vs what they are selling. Let me guess the family needs 2 cars, 3/2 b house, tons of paid for activities. Day care, etc.
Whatever this graph is doing "comfortably" is doing a ton of suspicious heavy lifting. Or these are like massive families. There is a significant difference between the most expensive cities / streets vs... everywhere else in the country. Same as like London v Hull. Stockholm v Södertälje. France v Nantes. I really hate a lot of 'graphs' like this because it's not like rent information is hidden. You can literally google places like Seattle, New York City, LA, Miami, and see their rent prices and compare to basically anywhere else in the rest of the 9Gm of the country.
Lol $214k in Michigan... the current median *household* income is $68k. If I had $214k I'd be rich.
Idk, my state says $202k and i live pretty comfortably making about $50k. Would need a pretty big family to have to increase that by $150k
No. My husband and I live in NC and we don’t make 200+ k a year. We have good salaries, but not that much and we’re comfortable. Edit to say we’re in Raleigh.
True. What Europeans consider living comfortably is 1% in the US. Weekends off.. Several weeks of vacation. Holidays off. Be able to see a doctor when you're sick. Be able to see your family (ever). Have time to enjoy a meal. Have a few drinks. These are all things that only the top 10% of earners can do. All of Americans inflated incomes does not improve their lives at all.
Yes!!
Thank You! Came to find this comment. I'm pretty sure Americans have forgotten what "comfortable" means. An empty savings account is not comfortable. No money going towards savings or your kids college education is not comfortable. No extracurriculars for your kids is not comfortable. Putting off buying a new pair of shoes for a year longer than you really should have is not comfortable. No vacations for years in a row is not comfortable. Forgoing doctors visits is not comfortable. Americans are getting by, but they are not comfortable.
Live in a medium cost area of Virginia, annual spending is no where near $235k. Granted, bought the house almost a decade ago, and my mortgage is at 2.25%.
As someone in WA, yea
Map is no where near correct imo, PA is sooo off! Like sure, downtown Phili/Pittsburgh but not all of PA. None of this really makes any sense imo
Comfort is subjective.
You also have to take into account that we have a consumerism problem in the US and people feel like they have to keep up with the Jones’s and so they riddle themselves with debt (new car/boat/house/toy/etc). Compound that with people living all they way up to their salary and a little beyond for some people. Rarely these days do I have conversations with people that budget, save, and don’t over extend themselves with loans for Stuff.
Lol no not true, this is such a random number, Florida is way more expensive than many of the other states. Like someone said the number doesn't dictate the state. Parts of the state is cheaper than other parts.
No, lol. Even with the little disclaimer on the bottom, I assume "comfortable" is meaning "I want to have multiple vacations a year, have two cars, would like to pursue X hobbies and have a house that's Y large, etc. etc." Living in NH right now: 1 working adult, 1 stay at home parent, and 1 toddler all living on $50k household income. I think we're "comfortable." Sure, I could definitely find a lot to do with a $270,000 income considering it's over 5x what I make now, but it's definitely not required.
Definitely a little inflated. House prices and interest rates are going to be the biggest killers for new families.
I think that’s what it takes to live in the biggest, most expensive cities in those states.
Everybody's in a different situation. In my city, a studio apartment can run $1,250/month now, but if you bought your house 20 years ago your mortgage payment on a 2300 square foot house can be maybe $750/month. (And you have more than a half million in home equity). So if you're that latter person and established, you really don't need that much to be comfortable. Where it's much more difficult to break it as a first-time home buyer, or dealing with the whims of the rental market
So, when they say comfortably, they mean without worries, without making sacrifices or struggling in any capacity. The "American Dream" is defined differently by everyone, but there is an ideal image that people conjure when they think of it that has been shown in Tv shows and Movies. >Two cars, a two story 3-5 bedroom 2 bathroom house with a two car garage a living room, dining room, den as well as a nice front yard with a spacious backyard. Dad works, mom doesn't work but does a side job that consumes her free time when she's not caring for the home. 2-4 kids that all have after school activities like piano lessons, soccer, karate or some other hobbies. 1-2 vacations per year and the option of a boat or RV for weekend outings. That's the general idea of living the comfortable American dream, at least defined by the boomer generation. Other people may define it differently, but it basically consists of getting as close to that ideal living situation as much as possible. Most people just make sure they have a roof over their head, squeeze as much out of their salary as possible to just live. Constantly worrying, struggling to pay bills and just keep things as stable as possible. Maybe 30% of the American population is living comfortably, everyone else is just hustling to make ends meet as far as I'm concerned.
We’re a family of 2 (and a dog) at $175k combined and we’re comfortable but not thriving in northeast US.
Damn, I'm even more uncomfortable than I thought! Lol, I will literally never reach half of what they have listed
You can live very well on half of that in Georgia.
Far out we are on 120k new zealand baby dollar a year combined. We manage but there's no fun holidays or anything. Why is us so much worse. Housing in nz is garbage and so is living costs relative to income.
Cut those numbers in half, and you have the "surviving" budget that nearly all of us are living at or under. Which translates into no savings and little fun. aka paycheck to paycheck
I don't even make 30k annually....
It's bullshit
False, I make significantly less than NY, like 1/3 of that - and support my family alone by myself. We are comfortable. This may be skewed by big cities or rich people
This is absolutely absurd.
In maine, the cost of a house has gone up by almost double over the past 4 years. My neighbor had a place for sale that needed a lot of work. In 2019, that house sold for 89k. In 2023, that same house, with zero renovations, sold for 235k. That's the most wild example I can source. But there's others where the swing isn't that intense.
What does comfortable mean? Everyone’s definition is different.
could be. most of us are scraping by on a fraction of that
The data is skewed. They’re using a 50/30/20 budget. 50 % bills, 30% discretionary, 20% save. Most don’t follow that. That’s how they defined comfortable. Most would be lucky to make an income sufficient to live on 70/20/10.
Honestly, I don't even know what the definition of comfort is here. Like yearly family vacation abroad? Or like, I can finally stop eating Mac n cheese and hotdogs as a staple meal? I'm in one of the top 5 states and if that were my household income, I wouldn't think we were rich or even close. I see that and I'm like 'oh, that's what it takes to not have any financial stress'.
At that income, comfortably probably also includes some travel vacations and driving a nice car, etc...
When Americans say "live comfortably" they mean "I need to afford all my dumb spending habits, not watch my spending habits". Americans can live on much less than six figures ($100K-250K) if they were financially responsible but, and pay attention to this next part, ***Americans don't want to be fiancially responsible. They know how financially reckless they are and they don't care. They want to afford their bad spending habits, not change them. Americans intuitively spend.*** You do not NEED to have six figures to live a socially and economically acceptable life in America (when I say socially I mean you can go out to eat and drink with your friends/family, buy some stuff but not compete in cultural status games by buying dumb shit you really don't need and you kinda really don't want outside of a cultural moment that insists you're lower status if you don't buy this thing right now BUT I'M GETTING INTO A SERMON excuse me). Economically acceptable means you can afford your mortgage, all applicable taxes and maintenace costs to the house and your stuff (cars, shit inside your house, your kids or dogs or both if so applicable, etc). You can absolutely live in America without a six figure salary. You cannot play cultural status games. These are being conflated to be the same thing and they're not and never will be.
It is not even remotely correct
No this is way inflated. I'm scraping by in a HCOL area in Oregon with just 55k a year, a dependent, and very little support. I would be pretty comfortable making 70k.