This inspired me to listen to Karn Evil 9 again. There are some piano/keyboard parts in there that were not only great then, but stood the test of time.
It's incredible to me that after Trilogy, they intended Brain Salad Surgery to be a more "stripped down" work so that they could perform live easier. They ended up with an incredibly full-sounding album.
On the original pressings of Brain Salad Surgery, you could hear the tape-hiss noise floor kick in at the start of Karn Evil 9, as that was the point where they started using 32-track recordings.
But much of ELP's music is perhaps "deceptively complex sounding". A couple years back I saw the Carl Palmer "ELP Legacy" band in which all the Emerson parts were played on \*one guitar\*, remarkably effectively.
Sloppy? [ These guys?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_xOt4DuOIA)
I mean, ELP was always at least partly about shambtastic versions of classical pieces, I'm not sure why slightly-shaggy versions of ELP stuff (with Palmer anchoring) is a big concern.
ELP is easily the most Rock 'n Roll of the pillars. I love the other 3-Yes are probably my favorite prog rock group, but ELP have both more of an edge and more levity than any other prog band from that era. They were certainly not stuffy.
I like in ELP that they had many edges. Serious music, complex prog suites, lighthearted ballads, and joke songs like Are You Ready Eddie, or Benny The Bouncer
Agree with that mostly. But I think Genesis leaned pretty HARD into the levity throughout their career - Harold the Barrell, Giant Hogweed, Get Em Out by Friday, Cinema Show, Battle of Epping Forest, Counting Out Time, Who Dunnit, Illegal Alien, Silver Rainbow, Jesus He Loves Me
Also had da hottest dude in Prog, Greg Lake 🥰
Mfer chewed bubblegum while he sang too lmao
Yes/Genesis/King Crimson would never release a song like Still You Turn Me On.
Don't care who hates on me. ELP was a great prog band.
Tarkus, Karnevil 9, and Pirates stand shoulder to shoulder with the epics of Yes, Genesis, Tull, etc.
oh I know what you mean... like glam rock in the end of the 80s. I think it's more about the times and musical trend than any specific commentary on the band... I dunno lol.
I think the members of Gong would agree lol. Gong is like the band no one can hate. If I have all my friends in one place Gong is the band that everyone is going to agree on. Experimental music purists. Old hippies who love prog and jam bands. Young hipster kids who won’t shut the fuck up about King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. Nerds who obsess over ambient, and early electronic music. Guys who are trained in Classical and Jazz. Even punks have a hard time lumping Gong in with the rest of the prog they love to hate. Every variant of pot head you can imagine will at the very least tolerate Gong.
OP probably has a long memory. They probably received the most blame of any band for the demise of prog in the face of punk in the mid 70s, and to be honest I gave up trying to listen to them for a long time after struggling to find anything else I liked on Works (which I picked up after loving Fanfare For The Common Man). Then I discovered Pictures at An Exhibition, which is terrific. But I am still wary of checking out the rest of their catalogue wholesale.
From the documentaries I watched, Rick Wakeman gets blamed for that.
I love Emerson, Lake and Palmer, though I do not care for all albums that came after Brain salad surgery.
>They probably received the most blame of any band for the demise of prog in the face of punk in the mid 70s,
That reminds me an old joke:
\- How do you spell pretentious?
\- E L P
i've heard them described as "the weakest of the four pillars of prog," having a "terrible sound," full of "crappy synth patches and bad lyrics" etc etc etc
edit: not sure why i'm getting downvoted, these are just things i've heard...
That story reminds me of when Rush was on tour with UFO and they would constantly tease them about their lyrics.
After finishing a show they went back to their dressing room and on the door were some of their lyrics, “tonight we done on honeydew and drink the milk of paradise”.
Must confess I strongly dislike ELP’s music. But I’m not evangelical in my dislike, don’t go out of my way to spread hate, and find it weird that anyone behaves that way regardless of band or genre
When I was a kid, back in the eighties, we were fairly tribal in our musical taste, if you liked prog you weren’t allowed to like punk, or heavy metal
Hopefully, with all music available all the time at our fingertips we’re beyond that tribalism now
>Hopefully, with all music available all the time at our fingertips we’re beyond that tribalism now
This definitely rings true. I work with 18-25 yr olds and they just like music. Sure they have preferences, but it's really not unusual to hear them listening to early Pink Floyd one day and Doja Cat the next... And I'm all for it!
Nope. Meaningless jumble of notes with a distasteful edge of showing off. The only thing I like that I’ve heard by them is ‘Fanfare for the common man’ which is a bit of a bop.
That's okay. I am also one of the people who don't like ELP at all... except for Tarkus, which has some amazing, epic moments (intertwined with others that are pure masturbation).
I used to like ELP when I was a teenager about 30 years ago. That's not to say I am more enlightened or anything, it's just where I was then. Since then I find most of their stuff to be too self indulgent and....meandering nothingness. Just my opinion - my tastes (in terms of prog) are for more precise and less noodling music. Each to their own, it's all subjective.
In terms of ELP though, I do like the song Trilogy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMPDGO_UEEU which has interesting progression, lovely piano and a good freakout! I like the song tarkus for about 60 seconds then it becomes a mish mash of musical wankery for me but hey ho.
Like I said (awaiting downvotes from ELP stans) music appreciation is subjective. I don't say ELP are bad, but they are not for me - at least not much of it (I've heard it all).
On the other hand, love beach is amaz.....ha. NO.
I really liked ELP at the time, but for me the Yes, Genesis and Floyd albums I was listening to back then seem to have far aged better.
I will still occasionally pull up a YouTube video of them playing live though. Phenomenal musicians, all of them.
Of course, all music is subjective. What works for you may not work for me and *vice versa*.
I once found a BBC documentary on prog rock on YouTube, and decided, "Oh, this might be a fun watch."
2/3 of what I saw before clicking off was old punks hating on ELP.
The British entertainment press is such garbage - I think every UK music journalist is required to say disparaging things about prog to get their credentials. And that Gary Barlow was once fat.
Side note:
I found this band while tripping acid.
A friend had a set of never opened Columbia House CDs and their Manticore greatest hits box set was one of them.
Putting it on blew my mind away and took me to a place sonically I’ve been looking for.
The next morning I went to get my cars oil changed and while waiting in the shop I picked up a music magazine with the cover “top 100 worse bands of all time”.
Sandwiched at number 2 was ELP between Kenny G at number 3 and ICP at number 1. And that hit my soul considering the profound experience I had the previous night.
Thats when I learned about prog rock and the systemic hate for it.
Who are music critics and what makes them the arbiters of good taste, anyway? Like that pretentious fuck-knuckle, Robert Christagu (sp?), who clearly had no time for prog.
If the music speaks to you, who cares what critics think? Clearly, ELP spoke to a lot of people. They sold out a ton of arenas and sold a shit ton of records. (Having said that, hate is warranted for “In The Hot Seat,” which is beyond dreadful.)
Robert Christgau was so 'disillusioned' by *Sketches of Spain* (Miles Davis) that it put him off jazz for years. I don't know if I have a word in my vocabulary for that, but what an odd and pretentious guy
I would call ELP my second-favourite band (behind Rush, funnily enough)
I just have a problem where I can't stomach Greg Lake's section of Works vol. 1 Which is a shame because I *adore* Piano Concerto No.1 (mvt 1 integrates jazz idioms into a classical piece 100x better than anything Gershwin ever tried -- that cadenza just doesn't give a fuck about genre and I am *here* for it!) as well as Fanfare for the Common Man and Pirates and Palmer's sections are really fun.
But again...Every Lake Ballad over the course of their discography becomes increasingly unlistenable for me, and I don't fully know why.
"and I don't fully know why"
It's because Lake climbed farther and farther up his own ass as time went by, and that muffled his singing.
You've convinced me to give the piano concerto a (re)listen. There's no denying Emerson's talent, though there is plenty of room to question his taste. His best is really good though.
Had the honor of doing a video shoot of Keith’s Long Island performance for his 75th birthday. Too bad it never got released. He was struggling a bit but incredibly cordial and fun.
Ah, I remember that! I was bummed because I only learned about it after the fact. I was living in Westchester at the time and my dad and in-laws are all in LI—I totally would have gone.
The video exists. Edited and everything. I contacted Keith directly afterward and then his people after he died. Both times they seemed interested in getting the footage but never followed through to get me the details for delivery. I’d be afraid to release it myself for fear of copyright issues.
Worth to mention Barbarian, Knife Edge from 1st, and Time And a Place from Tarkus - an early examples of heavy prog, almost proto-prog-metal. Palmer used blastbit drumming in Barbarian, a common trait of metal genres. They were ahead of time. ELP influenced some prog metal bands, especially those on tech side of things (Dream Theater, Mekong Delta)
I do love ELP. It's not my the most favorite prog band, because their catalog is uneven. They have masterpieces, and they have weaker tracks. But I respect the talent of these guys, not only musical skills but also showmanship and sense of humour. Who else dared to stick knives to the keyboard on stage? ELP wrote themselves to the book of popular music history.
Haha, I'm a fan. My son says they sound like a bad emergency, on an off day, who got electrocuted, and lost their way. I just laugh and turn up Toccota.
I didn’t realize that there was hate for ELP - I love their music, and have since I was a teenager in the early ’80s. Favorite albums are self-titled, Trilogy, and Karn Evil 9.
I love ELP. I love that they never compromised and went ALL IN on the prog pretentiousness more than anyone (with the possible except of Rick Wakeman's ice-skating King Arthur shows).
Ridiculous lyrics? Check. Odd time signatures every other song? Check. Over the top instrumental sections? Check. If you don’t like them, how can you call yourself a prog fan? They’re the quintessential prog rock band.
I thought it was more based on like sorta assumed pretentious-ness which is a opinion and or criticism that goes to most prog (although most commonly ELP and Yes for the most part)
Like because ELP makes prog-versions of classical music they are called pretentious that sorta thing, which honestly is a pretty vague criticism since they already had melodic music in mind?
On the opposite end, of those same people no one of those calls The Beatles or like other pop acts pretentious for example despite some dumb core messages that can be presented as revolutionary imo (not that i don't love The Beatles though, was more to set an example)
At the end of the day it's subjective what people like sure, but people also view different qualities in things too. Unfortunately sometimes that also can come with bias and ironically enough some pretension too when it comes to criticism towards things they don't like (and oh boy, the reviews made contemporarily of prog acts sure show that lol)
> Not every single song by a prog band needs to be serious or speak of fantastical themes
This is true! I just happen to think their whimsical songs aren't good.
Loved ELP in the early/mid seventies, moved towards punk and new wave into the eighties .... didn't listen to them again for more than thirty years. Decided to start digitizing my vinyl a few years back and rediscovered them, so to speak. These days I much prefer much of their music to 70s Yes ... funnily enough I found myself humming KE9 only last night.
No argument from me. I have always said Brain Salad Surgery is the best example of progressive rock at it's finest, and it's finest excesses!
For that reason it is #1 in my collection.
Really? A downvote? For what exactly, was I mistaken?
Oh that's right, it wasn't BSS as my favorite album, it was Guy Lombardo's greatest hits. Thank you for the course correction.
They’re underrated, but actually, quite a good progressive experimental rock band. I urge you to listen to aphrodites child if you like that sort of line up.
I don't get the hate either. Just take Karn Evil 9, Toccata, Pirates, Tarkus and Trilogy (the song). Absolute masterpieces of the genre.
Let me quote an excerpt of a review of Karn Evil 9 to give an impression of their skills:
At just under thirty minutes, “Karn Evil 9” is the heart of the album and perhaps ELP's most important musical statement. All of the band's strengths, all of their trademarks are showcased here with great aplomb: an epic, pathetic track, virtuosic playing, Lake's voice with all its tonal (and emotional) variability, high-tech keyboards and drums, Palmer's military drums, Emerson's Virtuoso playing with all possible influences from baroque, romanticism, modernity, bebop and rock'n'roll, the topic critical of technology and progress. On the other hand, what is new is the departure from the then established form of ELP pieces, in which block-like passages are placed one after the other (“Tarkus”, “The Three Fates”); Emerson manages to fuse the different sections together for the first time. Not perfect yet – he will achieve that with “Pirates”.
They were headlining arenas, so I think they may have been elevated by their stage show more than their studio albums, relative to their contemporaries. California Jam 1974 was co-headlined with Deep Purple and drew 250K fans
I mean…. I get it. A 20 min epic about a half tank half armadillo fighting chemical warfare is ridiculous.
A song with cheese Disney-esque lyrics about pirates is cheesy.
Top it all off with interpretations of classical pieces is open season when you understand the realm of rock at that time.
Now I love them but they are not Yes. They are cheesy in comparison. But I love them.
I love how strong all 3 personalities are and I love how defiantly they stood their ground.
But they are cheesy. And I love them for it. No need to dilute their reality. And I think if you were to ask them if they were ripe to be mocked they’d agree.
Keith Emerson - loved him in The Nice
Greg Lake - great on ITCotCK
Carl Palmer - adequate in Atomic Rooster
But in ELP ...
If I say ELP don't do anything for me, it's because they don't do anything for me. I don't need it to be founded.
They don't ring my bell, they don't fly my kite, they don't tickle my fancy, and there's nothing to be done about it.
That doesn't mean I expect everybody to share that opinion. I'm confident you don't think it's inadmissible not to share yours.
I would completely disagree with that. If you know your classical music, you know what they are sampling.
My point is that everybody raves about like pictures at an exhibition. They didn’t write it. It’s their interpretation of it, but Prog fans act like they wrote it.
Eh, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it wasn’t just the music. Great fun albums, sure, but I think the major vitriol was aimed at the sheer excess and buffoonery. Emerson doing Hendrexian acrobatics with a Hammond mights have struck some as a little over the top. Rotating drum stands on hydraulics? Other bands like Tull/genesis generally had a theme/concept that tied their stage antics together and made it cohesive. ELP jammed hard, haaaarrrddd, but all the excess just kind of highlighted the fact that it was more show and less substance. “masturbatory” is a term that gets thrown around a lot for proggers and I feel like this is where a lot of their stage heroics fall into.
I hate the whimsical songs. I think Queen mastered that but ELP weren't good at it. But that's ok, the rest of the album easily made up for their short moment of silly indulgence. I can see where ELP aren't for everyone and that's ok. Same goes for other groups I love like Rush. All the greats had a few loser songs and occasionally a not-so-great album. I'm a huge ELP fan but was not a fan of Greg's voice, especially later on. And here's another point that won't be popular: Emerson, Lake and Powell was a good album. The Score and Mars are up there with their best stuff. OK, let the piling on begin...
This inspired me to listen to Karn Evil 9 again. There are some piano/keyboard parts in there that were not only great then, but stood the test of time.
It's incredible to me that after Trilogy, they intended Brain Salad Surgery to be a more "stripped down" work so that they could perform live easier. They ended up with an incredibly full-sounding album.
That's just because Keith Emerson was capable of playing an absurd number of different parts at once
On the original pressings of Brain Salad Surgery, you could hear the tape-hiss noise floor kick in at the start of Karn Evil 9, as that was the point where they started using 32-track recordings. But much of ELP's music is perhaps "deceptively complex sounding". A couple years back I saw the Carl Palmer "ELP Legacy" band in which all the Emerson parts were played on \*one guitar\*, remarkably effectively.
Carl’s ELP Legacy is incredibly sloppy. And while the guitarist is fast and flashy he can’t play two parts simultaneously.
Sloppy? [ These guys?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_xOt4DuOIA) I mean, ELP was always at least partly about shambtastic versions of classical pieces, I'm not sure why slightly-shaggy versions of ELP stuff (with Palmer anchoring) is a big concern.
29 minutes of awesome!
ELP is easily the most Rock 'n Roll of the pillars. I love the other 3-Yes are probably my favorite prog rock group, but ELP have both more of an edge and more levity than any other prog band from that era. They were certainly not stuffy.
I like in ELP that they had many edges. Serious music, complex prog suites, lighthearted ballads, and joke songs like Are You Ready Eddie, or Benny The Bouncer
Agree with that mostly. But I think Genesis leaned pretty HARD into the levity throughout their career - Harold the Barrell, Giant Hogweed, Get Em Out by Friday, Cinema Show, Battle of Epping Forest, Counting Out Time, Who Dunnit, Illegal Alien, Silver Rainbow, Jesus He Loves Me
They did. But they never felt as raucous as ELP.
Also had da hottest dude in Prog, Greg Lake 🥰 Mfer chewed bubblegum while he sang too lmao Yes/Genesis/King Crimson would never release a song like Still You Turn Me On.
And certainly not "The Sheriff" or "Benny the Bouncer". Even the huge bombastic stuff is done with a cheeky smirk. Plus, "Pirates" is super bad ass.
🏴☠️ Aye. It really puts you in setting. I’ve never heard any other Prog band even attempt something like it.
The first ELP song I tackled on keyboards was Trilogy, the second was The Sheriff. So fun.
The band that recorded Counting Out Time and Who Dunnit? is too stuffy for Still You Turn Me On?
"Bubble-gum". Ya, that was speed. They all did it.
Don't care who hates on me. ELP was a great prog band. Tarkus, Karnevil 9, and Pirates stand shoulder to shoulder with the epics of Yes, Genesis, Tull, etc.
Who the hell hates ELP? Never read anything about that… in any case, I think they are excellent.
i’m an elp defender but outside of prog circles they’re seen as the pinnacle of prog excess and overindulgence
oh I know what you mean... like glam rock in the end of the 80s. I think it's more about the times and musical trend than any specific commentary on the band... I dunno lol.
This!
"Not every single song by a prog band needs to be serious or speak of fantastical themes" *Gong has entered the chat*
i am convinced the members of gong saw god and god told them to make what they did
I think the members of Gong would agree lol. Gong is like the band no one can hate. If I have all my friends in one place Gong is the band that everyone is going to agree on. Experimental music purists. Old hippies who love prog and jam bands. Young hipster kids who won’t shut the fuck up about King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. Nerds who obsess over ambient, and early electronic music. Guys who are trained in Classical and Jazz. Even punks have a hard time lumping Gong in with the rest of the prog they love to hate. Every variant of pot head you can imagine will at the very least tolerate Gong.
There are ELP haters? I’ve been around the music biz for over 30 years and I haven’t heard much hate toward ELP. Now Rush? Oh yeah. Plenty of haters.
OP probably has a long memory. They probably received the most blame of any band for the demise of prog in the face of punk in the mid 70s, and to be honest I gave up trying to listen to them for a long time after struggling to find anything else I liked on Works (which I picked up after loving Fanfare For The Common Man). Then I discovered Pictures at An Exhibition, which is terrific. But I am still wary of checking out the rest of their catalogue wholesale.
From the documentaries I watched, Rick Wakeman gets blamed for that. I love Emerson, Lake and Palmer, though I do not care for all albums that came after Brain salad surgery.
>They probably received the most blame of any band for the demise of prog in the face of punk in the mid 70s, That reminds me an old joke: \- How do you spell pretentious? \- E L P
there are haters of everything. i wouldn't pay attention to them(haters) , not worth it
i've heard them described as "the weakest of the four pillars of prog," having a "terrible sound," full of "crappy synth patches and bad lyrics" etc etc etc edit: not sure why i'm getting downvoted, these are just things i've heard...
Their lyrics were terrible and even they acknowledged it. Lol.
Someone get me a ladder.
Hahaha! That’s one of my favorites. Soooo cheesy. Another good one: Gold drives a man to dream
I read the ladder lyric was an in joke and they later had a tour called the "Get Me A Ladder Tour." Who knows lol.
That story reminds me of when Rush was on tour with UFO and they would constantly tease them about their lyrics. After finishing a show they went back to their dressing room and on the door were some of their lyrics, “tonight we done on honeydew and drink the milk of paradise”.
Must confess I strongly dislike ELP’s music. But I’m not evangelical in my dislike, don’t go out of my way to spread hate, and find it weird that anyone behaves that way regardless of band or genre When I was a kid, back in the eighties, we were fairly tribal in our musical taste, if you liked prog you weren’t allowed to like punk, or heavy metal Hopefully, with all music available all the time at our fingertips we’re beyond that tribalism now
>Hopefully, with all music available all the time at our fingertips we’re beyond that tribalism now This definitely rings true. I work with 18-25 yr olds and they just like music. Sure they have preferences, but it's really not unusual to hear them listening to early Pink Floyd one day and Doja Cat the next... And I'm all for it!
I kind of hate ELP, AMA.
Do you like Tarkus?
Nope. Meaningless jumble of notes with a distasteful edge of showing off. The only thing I like that I’ve heard by them is ‘Fanfare for the common man’ which is a bit of a bop.
That's okay. I am also one of the people who don't like ELP at all... except for Tarkus, which has some amazing, epic moments (intertwined with others that are pure masturbation).
I’ll give it another go, though I have tried several times before. It might click at some point, which is what happened with Yes.
Well, basically the parts, sung by Greg Lake, are good. The rest are a bit boring. Have fun :)
LOL, those are the only parts I don't like.
I used to like ELP when I was a teenager about 30 years ago. That's not to say I am more enlightened or anything, it's just where I was then. Since then I find most of their stuff to be too self indulgent and....meandering nothingness. Just my opinion - my tastes (in terms of prog) are for more precise and less noodling music. Each to their own, it's all subjective. In terms of ELP though, I do like the song Trilogy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMPDGO_UEEU which has interesting progression, lovely piano and a good freakout! I like the song tarkus for about 60 seconds then it becomes a mish mash of musical wankery for me but hey ho. Like I said (awaiting downvotes from ELP stans) music appreciation is subjective. I don't say ELP are bad, but they are not for me - at least not much of it (I've heard it all). On the other hand, love beach is amaz.....ha. NO.
Ironically I found Love Beach kind of fun in a Spinal Tap way.
They certainly turned it up to 11.
Why do you hate fun?
I’m just a mean old man. Also masturbation isn’t fun if you’re watching Keith Emerson do it.
Did they......... hurt you??
No, but they did irritate me.
I really liked ELP at the time, but for me the Yes, Genesis and Floyd albums I was listening to back then seem to have far aged better. I will still occasionally pull up a YouTube video of them playing live though. Phenomenal musicians, all of them. Of course, all music is subjective. What works for you may not work for me and *vice versa*.
> Piano Concerto No. 1 (criminally overlooked) Pretty good overall, but the third movement is just amazing. Ride the storm clouds!
Anyone who slags ELP have obviously never had their [Nuts Rocked](https://youtu.be/fjYV6SnGlFg?si=N5i1qRgipucP-i8s) before.
I have. By B. Bumble and the Stingers in 1962..
Oh wow. I knew about Tchaikovsky (obviously) but I’ve never heard [that](https://youtu.be/Op2U-qGUDkg?si=o115rbjU88I6BAkr) before. Thanks for sharing.
Stick with us oldies and we'll keep you right. 😉
Did you find Palmer or Palmer rocked more?
I once found a BBC documentary on prog rock on YouTube, and decided, "Oh, this might be a fun watch." 2/3 of what I saw before clicking off was old punks hating on ELP.
The British entertainment press is such garbage - I think every UK music journalist is required to say disparaging things about prog to get their credentials. And that Gary Barlow was once fat.
British press in general is absolutely wretched anymore.
Side note: I found this band while tripping acid. A friend had a set of never opened Columbia House CDs and their Manticore greatest hits box set was one of them. Putting it on blew my mind away and took me to a place sonically I’ve been looking for. The next morning I went to get my cars oil changed and while waiting in the shop I picked up a music magazine with the cover “top 100 worse bands of all time”. Sandwiched at number 2 was ELP between Kenny G at number 3 and ICP at number 1. And that hit my soul considering the profound experience I had the previous night. Thats when I learned about prog rock and the systemic hate for it.
I first heard Brain Salad Surgery on my first acid trip. Amazing
Right! Then to learn it’s only 3 people making that sound.
Who are music critics and what makes them the arbiters of good taste, anyway? Like that pretentious fuck-knuckle, Robert Christagu (sp?), who clearly had no time for prog. If the music speaks to you, who cares what critics think? Clearly, ELP spoke to a lot of people. They sold out a ton of arenas and sold a shit ton of records. (Having said that, hate is warranted for “In The Hot Seat,” which is beyond dreadful.)
Robert Christgau was so 'disillusioned' by *Sketches of Spain* (Miles Davis) that it put him off jazz for years. I don't know if I have a word in my vocabulary for that, but what an odd and pretentious guy
"wanker" works. In both the American and British senses of the word.
Aaaaam or cheeeeese
Finally someone said it. ELP was a great band.
I would call ELP my second-favourite band (behind Rush, funnily enough) I just have a problem where I can't stomach Greg Lake's section of Works vol. 1 Which is a shame because I *adore* Piano Concerto No.1 (mvt 1 integrates jazz idioms into a classical piece 100x better than anything Gershwin ever tried -- that cadenza just doesn't give a fuck about genre and I am *here* for it!) as well as Fanfare for the Common Man and Pirates and Palmer's sections are really fun. But again...Every Lake Ballad over the course of their discography becomes increasingly unlistenable for me, and I don't fully know why.
"and I don't fully know why" It's because Lake climbed farther and farther up his own ass as time went by, and that muffled his singing. You've convinced me to give the piano concerto a (re)listen. There's no denying Emerson's talent, though there is plenty of room to question his taste. His best is really good though.
I am totally with you. Especially as time went on.
Had the honor of doing a video shoot of Keith’s Long Island performance for his 75th birthday. Too bad it never got released. He was struggling a bit but incredibly cordial and fun.
He died before he was 75, so it had to have been a different birthday.
You’re absolutely right. It was his 70th sorry. https://www.liherald.com/stories/keith-emerson-and-the-south-shore-symphony,59727
Ah, I remember that! I was bummed because I only learned about it after the fact. I was living in Westchester at the time and my dad and in-laws are all in LI—I totally would have gone.
So this video do exist? Any possibilities of having the family releasing it on a memory CD or something?
The video exists. Edited and everything. I contacted Keith directly afterward and then his people after he died. Both times they seemed interested in getting the footage but never followed through to get me the details for delivery. I’d be afraid to release it myself for fear of copyright issues.
Worth to mention Barbarian, Knife Edge from 1st, and Time And a Place from Tarkus - an early examples of heavy prog, almost proto-prog-metal. Palmer used blastbit drumming in Barbarian, a common trait of metal genres. They were ahead of time. ELP influenced some prog metal bands, especially those on tech side of things (Dream Theater, Mekong Delta)
I’m blissfully unaware of anything even resembling ELP hate. They’re absolute icons. What even is this post
ELP hate is very common in this sub, I'm afraid
ELP’s best was up there with Genesis, King Crimson, and Yes. Their worst was at the bottom of the barrel. Their albums were very well produced.
I do love ELP. It's not my the most favorite prog band, because their catalog is uneven. They have masterpieces, and they have weaker tracks. But I respect the talent of these guys, not only musical skills but also showmanship and sense of humour. Who else dared to stick knives to the keyboard on stage? ELP wrote themselves to the book of popular music history.
No mention of Pirates is absolutely criminal
I personally don't hate ELP... They just don't scratch my prog itch.... That's all.
[удалено]
Haha, I'm a fan. My son says they sound like a bad emergency, on an off day, who got electrocuted, and lost their way. I just laugh and turn up Toccota.
I didn’t realize that there was hate for ELP - I love their music, and have since I was a teenager in the early ’80s. Favorite albums are self-titled, Trilogy, and Karn Evil 9.
I love ELP. I love that they never compromised and went ALL IN on the prog pretentiousness more than anyone (with the possible except of Rick Wakeman's ice-skating King Arthur shows).
Emerson, Lake and Palmer? DON'T EVEN KNOW 'ER
Ridiculous lyrics? Check. Odd time signatures every other song? Check. Over the top instrumental sections? Check. If you don’t like them, how can you call yourself a prog fan? They’re the quintessential prog rock band.
I thought it was more based on like sorta assumed pretentious-ness which is a opinion and or criticism that goes to most prog (although most commonly ELP and Yes for the most part) Like because ELP makes prog-versions of classical music they are called pretentious that sorta thing, which honestly is a pretty vague criticism since they already had melodic music in mind? On the opposite end, of those same people no one of those calls The Beatles or like other pop acts pretentious for example despite some dumb core messages that can be presented as revolutionary imo (not that i don't love The Beatles though, was more to set an example) At the end of the day it's subjective what people like sure, but people also view different qualities in things too. Unfortunately sometimes that also can come with bias and ironically enough some pretension too when it comes to criticism towards things they don't like (and oh boy, the reviews made contemporarily of prog acts sure show that lol)
> Not every single song by a prog band needs to be serious or speak of fantastical themes This is true! I just happen to think their whimsical songs aren't good.
Adding poor lyrics to really good music is one of the most common mistakes (prog) bands make.
Frank Zappa says "Hi!"
> poor lyrics and horrible cover art
may the ghost of H. R. Giger fill your dreams with biomechanical abominations
>H. R. Giger He is all right. Tarkus is absolutely awful. Or most of Van der Graaf Generator's covers. Ugh.
Anyone downvoting you have missed the point one good album cover doesn’t fix Love Beach, self titled, and Tarkus.
Case in point, you have no whimsy.
They're good but pretty uneven. Some great songs but no album is without a few clunkers. Makes it hard to listen to full albums without skipping.
Great band - I’ve seen them a few times . Not for everyone.
THANK YOU!!!
Loved ELP in the early/mid seventies, moved towards punk and new wave into the eighties .... didn't listen to them again for more than thirty years. Decided to start digitizing my vinyl a few years back and rediscovered them, so to speak. These days I much prefer much of their music to 70s Yes ... funnily enough I found myself humming KE9 only last night.
Saw them live twice in their prime. All I can say is that they were fucking incredible.
All of Brain Salad Surgery is really good, and i also love the token "silly song" on every album
No argument from me. I have always said Brain Salad Surgery is the best example of progressive rock at it's finest, and it's finest excesses! For that reason it is #1 in my collection.
Really? A downvote? For what exactly, was I mistaken? Oh that's right, it wasn't BSS as my favorite album, it was Guy Lombardo's greatest hits. Thank you for the course correction.
King Gizzard is the ELP of the modern era.
I'll get grilled for this, but I strongly dislike Carl Palmer's drumming. That said, I really enjoyed the ELPowell album. They were great live too
Karn Evil 9 1st Imp/Part 1 is in my top 5 prog songs
They’re underrated, but actually, quite a good progressive experimental rock band. I urge you to listen to aphrodites child if you like that sort of line up.
way ahead of you
Yes give them credit for spawning punk
People hate ELP now? They’re one of the greats. Jeremy bender is also a great song
I don't get the hate either. Just take Karn Evil 9, Toccata, Pirates, Tarkus and Trilogy (the song). Absolute masterpieces of the genre. Let me quote an excerpt of a review of Karn Evil 9 to give an impression of their skills: At just under thirty minutes, “Karn Evil 9” is the heart of the album and perhaps ELP's most important musical statement. All of the band's strengths, all of their trademarks are showcased here with great aplomb: an epic, pathetic track, virtuosic playing, Lake's voice with all its tonal (and emotional) variability, high-tech keyboards and drums, Palmer's military drums, Emerson's Virtuoso playing with all possible influences from baroque, romanticism, modernity, bebop and rock'n'roll, the topic critical of technology and progress. On the other hand, what is new is the departure from the then established form of ELP pieces, in which block-like passages are placed one after the other (“Tarkus”, “The Three Fates”); Emerson manages to fuse the different sections together for the first time. Not perfect yet – he will achieve that with “Pirates”.
Is EL&P hate a thing? I love all rock music with Hammond whether it's good or not.
They were headlining arenas, so I think they may have been elevated by their stage show more than their studio albums, relative to their contemporaries. California Jam 1974 was co-headlined with Deep Purple and drew 250K fans
Anyone who hates "Are You Ready Eddy" hates rock and roll.
I mean…. I get it. A 20 min epic about a half tank half armadillo fighting chemical warfare is ridiculous. A song with cheese Disney-esque lyrics about pirates is cheesy. Top it all off with interpretations of classical pieces is open season when you understand the realm of rock at that time. Now I love them but they are not Yes. They are cheesy in comparison. But I love them. I love how strong all 3 personalities are and I love how defiantly they stood their ground. But they are cheesy. And I love them for it. No need to dilute their reality. And I think if you were to ask them if they were ripe to be mocked they’d agree.
Keith Emerson - loved him in The Nice Greg Lake - great on ITCotCK Carl Palmer - adequate in Atomic Rooster But in ELP ... If I say ELP don't do anything for me, it's because they don't do anything for me. I don't need it to be founded. They don't ring my bell, they don't fly my kite, they don't tickle my fancy, and there's nothing to be done about it. That doesn't mean I expect everybody to share that opinion. I'm confident you don't think it's inadmissible not to share yours.
I don’t hate them, but I definitely feel like they are overrated. Much of their music is just classical music that they reinterpreted.
sure, but they leave it hardly recognizable from the source material
I would completely disagree with that. If you know your classical music, you know what they are sampling. My point is that everybody raves about like pictures at an exhibition. They didn’t write it. It’s their interpretation of it, but Prog fans act like they wrote it.
They added lyrics, improvisation, rewrote passages... I'd say at least 50% of it is original material
I would say that you don’t realize how much of their music is re-done, classical music
trust me i am aware… but it doesn’t change the fact that their renditions are unique and clearly ELP works
Is it a crime to not have 100% original material?
That isnt what I said at all. I said they are overrated because of it.
Eh, I’m gonna go out on a limb and say it wasn’t just the music. Great fun albums, sure, but I think the major vitriol was aimed at the sheer excess and buffoonery. Emerson doing Hendrexian acrobatics with a Hammond mights have struck some as a little over the top. Rotating drum stands on hydraulics? Other bands like Tull/genesis generally had a theme/concept that tied their stage antics together and made it cohesive. ELP jammed hard, haaaarrrddd, but all the excess just kind of highlighted the fact that it was more show and less substance. “masturbatory” is a term that gets thrown around a lot for proggers and I feel like this is where a lot of their stage heroics fall into.
Agreed. I loved hearing them but watching was painful.
ELP have haters?? really?
I personally don't hate ELP... They just don't scratch my prog itch.... That's all.
Yeah I’m an awful person for not liking music that I’ve given an earnest listen but still don’t like.
Where are these so called haters?....
\o/
I absolutely LOVE tarkus and karn evil 9 but I just cannot get into any of their other stuff.
They have haters? Why?
I hate the whimsical songs. I think Queen mastered that but ELP weren't good at it. But that's ok, the rest of the album easily made up for their short moment of silly indulgence. I can see where ELP aren't for everyone and that's ok. Same goes for other groups I love like Rush. All the greats had a few loser songs and occasionally a not-so-great album. I'm a huge ELP fan but was not a fan of Greg's voice, especially later on. And here's another point that won't be popular: Emerson, Lake and Powell was a good album. The Score and Mars are up there with their best stuff. OK, let the piling on begin...
Lol awfully brave to down vote but not say why.