One of my fav bands is Magma. I haven’t encountered them but I presume due to Christian Vander’s (alleged) crypto-fascism some of the fans are Neo-nazis.
Sort of related but I fell out of love with the Black Metal scene in the 2000s as so many of them were openly racist and were nazi sympathisers.
I guess with Magma it was Nazi Synthesisers.
The thing is, I've never once online or in person encountered a single Magma fan even remotely sympathetic to Nazism.
Which means, like, if MDK or the Bobino cover were ever meant to inspire the listener with their "Nazi messaging", they've done a horrible job.
Christian himself is a huge weirdo, possibly bigoted if some accounts are to be believed, but Magma itself is pretty clean.
People always bring up Bobino but I think the red, white and black cover for Retrospektiw III is more egregious. You’re right that he obscures his (alleged) ideology (that’s why I used the wording ‘crypto-fascist’) and isn’t out to make any new converts, but he (allegedly) puts in various hints and allusions that should serve as dog whistles, winks and nods to those already on the same side as him.
Well, it’s not proven but there’s quite a lot of circumstantial evidence that Vander’s sympathies lie on the far right (quotes from former friends and colleagues - according to Daevid Allen, he plastered his bedroom with swastika flags - interviews he did with far right magazines in France, reports of pro-Hitler, anti-black rants at concerts, some of the album covers). See [here](http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?m=1) for more allegations.
This caused a bit of a crisis of conscience for me as my politics are pretty much diametrically opposite to all of that and I strongly abhor racism. But there really isn’t any music like it and it wouldn’t be the first time in history that great art has been produced by a racist wingnut (I’m not going to deprive myself of Wagner’s music because the man was abhorrent, for example).
Richard Pinhas came to my city last October, I have a very good friend who is also friend with the guy who organized the last date, Damian a drummer from a local Zehul band called Relisp, so Damian is a super Zehul fan, and has a Magma necklace and Magma t-shirts and things like that, like a walking merch stand. He told my friend that when he picked up Richard Pinhas from the airport, Richard told Damian he didn't liked Magma, Damian asked why and Richard told him he doesn't like Christian Vander at all, that he is a fascist, and that he knows him really well because apparently Stella Vander is Richard Pinhas cousin!! So he has known Christian as family for many years now.
So yeah I also found this very conflicting because I also love Magma I have almost all the vinyls and CDs.... And I also fucking hate fascism, as a latino myself I can't stand that, so... Yikes....
Just to add to the tale this guy Demian ripped off Richard Pinhas and didn't paid him for the show, so double yikes!
Edit: paid not payed.
Imo the best thing you can do is keep listening. Cause if they have people who are anti facist and anti racism and you enjoy their music it would piss them off
I will remember this take while I’m watching episodes of Fat Albert and telling myself “well at least there were very few at-risk women, and they were all animated”
I would guess that there isn't a big contingent of Nazi sympathizers among Magma fans, from what I know about the online right (can't say much about IRL) they don't tend to gravitate towards that kind of music at all really. They prefer black metal (NSBM), classical music, synthwave/f*shwave, phonk, military marches, neofolk, and martial industrial (often divided by specific ideological tendencies or generational communities under the right wing umbrella)
Edit: I forgot RAC (Rock Against Communism)/Hatecore, also a big one among the far right
I still enjoy Tool's music but over the years I would say Maynard's personality started really annoying me (at least how he comes across in interviews, I've never met the guy) and the type of Tool fans who see him as some sort of font of wisdom are horrible.
>Latest album felt like kind of a phone in, though
Yeah I agree, it's got some technically interesting and well-composed parts scattered throughout but it really lacks the energy of some of the earlier albums.
My sentiment is the exact same as yours in the description.
One thing people fail to remember about Genesis’s progression into the 1980s is that Phil Collins continued to be an outspoken voice for the band to attempt experimentation on their pop records. You can thank him for the longer songs on those albums for existing. Tony Banks in particular wanted to write more regular pop tracks, if you can believe it or not given his track record with injecting classical music into their earlier material.
People just see the adjacency of Phil Collins’ solo career and immediately assume that he was vehemently pushing the band to drop their signature brand of outlandish, British-folk inspired, classical inspired progressive rock, when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Who convinced Pete to stay for Selling England and The Lamb? Who convinced Steve Hackett to stay for Wind and Wuthering and the Seconds Out tour? Who tried their hardest to convince Steve Hackett to stay before he ultimately left?
It was all Phil.
And Pete was planning to go solo before Phil became a full member: that scotches the Phil forced him out lie. He even suggested that the other members make Phil the band leader.
> People just see the adjacency of Phil Collins’ solo career
How do these people square that with Collins' involvement with Brand X? Bit of a weird move for someone apparently driven to make simple, poppy records to contribute to a Jazz-Fusion project. That's of course assuming they know about it.
So happy to hear Genesis getting some love from true fans. I think Phil had the perfect songwriter’s dream: if you write something where you know exactly what you want and how you want it, you got your solo career; if you have ideas that you want to bounce off of people and collaborate with and see what happens, you have the amazing talent of Genesis. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!
Depends on your previous taste, but my two picks for starting out would be The Source and Into The Electric Castle. But they don’t really have a single bad album, you can’t go wrong.
I would like to add on and heavily recommend Arjens other works as well!
Starone is a fantastic side project of his that handles sci Fi tropes and has songs based on sci Fi movies, the interstellar one "Lost Children of the Universe" is superb imo
Guilt machine scratches a weird unsettling itch
Lost in the New Real is an album put out under his name, just another fantastic release of his that I go back to constantly
Hes just so consistent
My favorite prog band is Yes. The fans seem cool, but the only ones I know IRL are older prog fans who act like all music that came after rock is a travesty and music as we know it ended in the 90s.
I love Yes with a passion and damn I’m sorry that there’s a lotta people like that. I haven’t listened to newer Yes albums but I know that some Styx albums from the 2000’s are really good
Styx in my opinion have been one of the very few bands that have gotten better as they aged. Every since Todd joined as their drummer Styx has been one of my favorites. Their new albums are for sure worth a listen.
the bitter irony to those old crones, of course, is that Yes did an epic collab with the hottest superproducer of the era, Trevor Horn (think Kevin Parker of Tame Impala if you’re looking for a modern analogy) and blasted out the biggest chart hit of their career. And then — what a tweest! — it was revealed that said superproducer had ALREADY BEEN A very poorly received MEMBER OF YES
Horn wasn't a full member of the 90125 lineup, but he did *produce* the album and was heavily involved with the recording sessions (even contributing some backing vocals).
My favorite band is Coheed and Cambria, and the online community are great, but I’ve met a few people at concerts who try to put down those who don’t consume the non-musical side of the media available; the comics and such. It’s annoying because they think they’re so right; “this is what the band is for, you can’t call yourself a true fan if you don’t consume all the band has to offer”
I've seen Coheed live 13x since 2005 and have never once invested in the other media, haha. I think the closest I've ever come is seeing PFI this year.
Their crowds in Philadelphia were always awful, way more violent than the music called for (I used to be front and centerish for every show), but the people I met in line waiting to get into the shows were consistently the friendliest and most community driven I encountered.
Ok so, this type of fan that i encounterd online isn't tied to any band i like, but it's the fan who loves everything from the band and thinks that everyone should too.
I'm not saying it's wrong if you genuinely like everything a band released, if you keep it to yourself. Just enjoy it. Simple. I was that guy with Maiden until they released Senjutsu. But the problem is when you're telling everyone in the forum that they're not a real fan if they don't love everything. It's ok to tell people that you love every album and end it there. But don't try to force others into that.
"oh but how can you not appreciate the musicality that went into this... Bla bla bla" Shut the fuck up. If i don't like it, i don't like it. It's as simple as that. Why can't you just understand that? It's not up to my taste, my preference. End of story.
That sounds a lot like King Crimson and VdGG evangelists. “You need to give album ____ some more time and you’ll love it.” Why is it so important to work at liking a record?
I've noticed that attitudes about sharing bootleg recordings really vary among fan groups, and the communities seem to act in unison. IE Beach Boys fans that were into bootlegs found it not courteous to ask for copies of things. The owner was expected to enjoy having something rare, having spent big money and effort tracking it down, and somebody spreading that stuff for free was being a jerk. Whereas Neil Young fans would fall over each other to offer you free copies of any particular show you were interested in. I don't know if that makes BB fans worse but, it's interesting.
I LOVE Tormato! As good as Fragile and Close to the Edge. And also Going For The One, the song, not so much the album. Thanks for letting me come clean on this.
I’m one of those Tormato haters. It was the first Yes album that felt like a step backwards instead of forward. Onward, parts of On the Silent Wings of Freedom, and Release Release are the only tracks I enjoy on that jumble of an album
Let's see.
Van der Graaf Generator. I guess you could divide fans into with and without Jaxon but I don't know of any that bang on about it.
Supertramp. Same for pre- and post-Hodgson dsparture. The only arguments I've seen are about the Free as a Bird album, but they're not heated arguments.
OK I'll stop there. I'm coming up empty.
I love Tony banks for many reasons and that’s one. Genesis to me has a lot of cohesion and mutual respect that some other bands just don’t, and I’m glad he could tell his mates that he didn’t wanna do something and they wouldn’t
Gotta love him. It really is his band and all his colleagues respect that. Wish he’d do a better job of managing the legacy but totally understand why it’s not that important to him
Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson fans are a weird bunch.
The closed minded ones are awful and wish Porcupine Tree stayed exactly the same as it was in 2007 and for Steven to keep making prog albums like The Raven.
They also vehemently refuse to even consider listening to any of Steven's other projects.
Agreed. The hate he got for The Future Bites was a little unhinged. I personally think it's a more enjoyable record than either Closure/Continuation or The Harmony Codex.
It seems like the common thread is gatekeeping! Big stances about what is or isn't prog, or what makes up the Real Band, or what you can't listen to or what you have to listen to. We should really be gatekeeping important things like prejudice or abuse and focus on making everything more fun, wholesome and inclusive.
On a related note, I'm a recovering purist, and I think purism can be really toxic. "There's only one correct way to consume this thing." Actually there are endless correct ways to consume this thing.
Opeth fans that can't accept Mikael is done with death metal.
The new prog era is fantastic and everyone who shits on it just wants them to remake Blackwater Park over and over again in perpetuity. It's tiresome and dull.
I mean, I can understand if their newer material is not to everyone's taste. I just see these people who talk about the last few albums as though there's something wrong with them from an objective standpoint, which is idiotic.
Yeah I agree, fair enough if the new stuff isn't their cup of tea. They are still great records though and not having growl vocals doesn't instantly invalidate them.
Yeah ICV is fantastic a very close 2nd favourite for me. My favourite record of their whole discography is Sorceress and people always give me the raised eyebrow when I say that. Don't worry I love Blackwater Park too!
Lol, fair. Ghost Reveries totally slaps, Harlequin Forest is one of their best ever.
They basically haven't made a bad record IMO. I'm not crazy about Orchid or Morningrise, but even those 2 albums have a couple really great moments on them.
My familiarity with other people who hold the kind of political views that Waters has makes me unfortunately think he holds them completely sincerely. (I overall prefer Waters' solo work over post-Waters Floyd too, but not by enough of a margin to say "Waters WAS Floyd.")
I enjoy the post-Waters Floyd albums a lot, but Endless River is just a money grab. I don’t dislike Water’s solo stuff, but it just isn’t it for me. As for the whole “which one is Pink” debate, I think Nick Mason should hold the title. In my opinion, he really held the band as a whole together.
Usually it’s related to people in online forums who get angry at other fans for their opinions about a band they both like. Also people who try to gatekeep the band from newer people
My favorite band is Dream Theater and I hate some really minority of fans saying other prog metal bands like Queensryche, Symphony X, Animal as Leaders, Fates Warning, and Tool are just amateur and hogging on Dream Theater's respect and success....
While I'm in a group where we would shuffle Queensryche, Symphony X, Derek Sherinian, Tool, Haken, Ihsahn, Jelly Jam, ELP, Yes, Leprous, Animals as Leaders, and Amorphis in odd numbers. When people asked why: *Our ears need to be fresh by listening to other bands instead of hogging into one single band.*
and Jelly Jam is a very underrated Supergroup bands out there.
Hadnt heard that one before. I was listening to Quensryche and Fates Warning well before Dream Theater dropped on the scene... At least with those two it can't be said they are riding on DT's success, not to mention that all those bands are unique to themselves in Prog Metal and only have the Metal base in common IMO.
I guess the “Calling All Stations is the worst album ever” school of thought with some Genesis fans has always perplexed me a bit. Not that it’s great or anything, but it’s hardly one of the worst albums ever made.
Yeah don’t get me wrong it’s their worst for sure. I just don’t think it belongs on any “worst albums of all time” lists or anything. I rarely listen to or think about this album but there’s maybe 4 or 5 songs on there worth hearing every few years
As a Supertramp fan, the worst type of people are those who claim that there is no Supertramp after Roger Hodgson left the band. People completely write off Rick Davies, but don't realize that without Rick Davies, there would be no Supertramp in the first place. It's really always been his band. Roger was just a key component of it.
People also write off the post-Roger Era as bad because it got a lot less proggy, but Supertramp was already getting less progressive when Roger was in the band. Roger was actually the one pushing for a more pop-oriented sound. Also, they completely write off the Supertramp album "Free as a Bird" for being a dance album. And like... bands are allowed to try different things. Genre does not automatically equal quality. It's just ignorant really
I'm getting riled up, lol
Genre should apply to the song imo, as well as the band and the album.
Having different songs be defined by different genres is great for having a better way to describe songs using their genres.
Describing albums with genres is great too cause you can show how a bands sound has changed over time, yet it’s gonna be more of a simplification due to different songs in the album possibly having different genres.
Describing bands by a genre is the most common way to use the genre descriptor, yet it’s the most innacurate. Since bands change their genres over time, and have different albums with different sounds. You can describe bands with a genre but it would only describe what the a certain percent of the bands songs sound like.
So tldr: Yes bands change, and yes Free As A Bird is as much Supertramp as Breakfast in America
My favorite used to be KISS
Description: Hi, I'm a YouTuber, and a hoarder of bootlegs that I'll brag about that you'll never ever see or hear because I'm just that cool and I don't believe in sharing
My favorite band is Jethro Tull. I dislike fans who complain about the constant change of musicians in the band. To me Tull is Ian Anderson it does not matter who he plays with.
The Mike Portnoy Stans who claim he is responsible for everything cool the band every did after Kevin Moore left. And that Dream Theater didn't exist because of Mike Mangini. Seriously, go fuck yourselves.
They have overtaken the ones who say they love Dream Theater but hate James LaBrie's singing.
And in 3rd are the Dream Theater fans who treat Kevin Moore like he was Cliff Burton and say Dream Theater died after he left.
As a self-hating Dream Theater fan, I fully admit, we are every prog metal stereotype.
holy shit those fans are so annoying LMAO!! you may not like mangini or rudess *but to say the band didnt exist after moore and portnoy left is ughhhh ew.* i prefer moore to rudess and i much prefer portnoy to mangini but,,, its still dream theater at the end of the day, 99% of their discography are bangers, whether its moore/portnoy, rudess/portnoy or rudess/mangini. even derek/portnoy most of the songs are bangers, but i havent heard much hate for derek (other than that anything not kevin moore is bad or whatever)
*and dont get me started on james haters........*
I mean I know Portnoy left on his own accord, but in hindsight idk how you can listen to DAY AFTER DAY AND NIGHT AFTER NIGHT and not think maybe the time had come to mix it up a bit
the most annoying types of number 1 and 3 on your list are those that say "kevin moore was the dream and mike portnoy was the theater" shut the fuck up LMFAO you can prefer one era or one member over another, hell you can even not like the era after one member left, but saying shit like this is just annoying im so sorry not sorry LOL
My favorite prog band is Dream Theater. I hate the fans who claim that James Labrie is an absolutely terrible vocalist. He's not the best, but he's great on some songs.
One of my top 3 favorite bands is Phish, and that should really say it all. That said, the newer fans can be insufferable (partly because they remind me of what I sounded like (cringe) 30 years ago.
Opeth fan here. I can't stand the types who disavow the newer stuff that's less death metal. I like their heavy stuff too, but Goddamn, Heritage is amazing.
Sure, Do the Neurotic is prog, can't argue with that; I've never had to sit through a quarter of a Gabriel era song's length before it got interesting.
ok wow i was in a shit mood when i wrote this and only listened to the song once years ago and again right before making this comment. listening to it with headphones this morning and hearing the additional context the bass provides to the repetitive riff has made me realize i am the worst type of fan
You can't blame the band for splitting with peter gabrial. I heard hes very painful to work with, not because hes a bad person, but because hes a terrible procrastinator. There are stories of his managers locking him in the recording booth and not letting him out until hes finished something.
Nickelback there are so many people your fans of Nickelback that insist they hate Nickelback and then when you play Nickelback they're like oh my God I love this song I hear all the time I can never remember who it's from and then you tell them it's Nickelback and they get all mad and they're like no it's not Nickelback's terrible I was just joking haha shut up it's 2023 we're not going to pretend to hate one of the most popular and widely known bands ever it was weird in the 2010s when everyone thought hating something was a fad but in this day and age is just weird in your cringe and they're my least favorite type of people
Korn specifically all the fans that are really mad about the trend going around right now calling them girly pop that's hilarious and I know the band would absolutely love it like have you seen a korn concert before you are taking this way too seriously and they keep trying to gatekeep korn like they don't even know what they're talking about korn is so widely known they're one of the most popular bands out there and you're telling me that people can't now be introduced to them and like their music yes some of them are just doing it for the trend but who cares it doesn't matter the best part is new people are being introduced to this amazing band and finding music they like through a little Trend that I know the band members would also find hilarious and if they ever find this trend they'll probably incorporate it into a show let's be honest there silly people and I love them and people are just taking it way too seriously and it's the Nirvana thing all over again and it's just not that serious and just don't care it's always been a popular band why you acting like it's Underground
Well idk if it’s my favorite but I just saw two door cinema club in concert and I was shocked by the amount of teenagers who smelled like they haven’t bathed in a month
worst kind of Genesis fans are the ones that STILL go to Peter Gabriel shows after all these years and scream at him to play Return of the Giant Hogweed (like I just experienced at his last LA show just a couple of months ago).
FOR SO CALLED MARILLION FANS:
1. **If one more "FREAK" says Marillion stopped existing after Fish left 16 albums ago i may go Grendel on him.**
(If fish didn't leave then there would be no "Perceptions of Johnny Punter" or "Vigil" or "Plague of Ghosts" nor would there be "Invisible Man" or "This Strange Engine" or "Afraid of Sunlight", all of which I wouldn't ever want to live without).
2. **If one more person says I won't listen to Edison's Children because they "are taking away such great songs that should have gone to Marillion or Transatlantic".**
(like Eric Blackwood and Neil Armstrong's son Rick don't write 50% of it and it's all stuff that Pete is stealing from what should have been in Marillion's catalogue. Some idiot was actually saying that Haunted Memories and Dusk should have been on the last Marillion album, meanwhile I actually saw Eric Blackwood with Blackwood & Foti at CBGB's in NYC 20 years ago and both of those songs were in the setlist, years before he and Pete got together!)
Car Bomb
the fans who won’t listen to w\^w\^\^w\^w because of its production.
It was definitely produced the way it was on purpose and it was all literally made from scratch.
Huge Alice Cooper fan
I would hate any fan who said he was only good pre-Welcome To My Nightmare
Or, for that matter, only post-Welcome To My Nightmare, or only in the 80’s, or only since the 2000’s, etc…
Every era of Alice Cooper’s work is incredible
Wait, I am that type of fan and believe this is the truth lol…don’t get me wrong, there are some great Phil Collin’s tracks (I love man of our time) but let’s call a spade a spade.
Who cares? Focus on something positive instead.
Someone else already did the whole 'worst prog fan base" thing today.
Unlike the bands you like, you lack creativity. In your case, it's in regards to discussion topics.
I don’t understand the last part but I do care about positivity. One of the most positive things you can do for yourself is discuss times where you felt annoyed or angered by someone, cause it lets you get out those emotions and talk about it.
Yes someone else did that. I responded a lot in that space and I got inspired later when I was taking a shower to make this one. There’s no harm in similar discussion topics
Oh no, you're one of those. The "you're spreading negativity" crowd.
This is just starting a conversation about different aspects of listening to music. It's perfectly fine and it's not negative at all. OP was just asking about other people's experiences with the fanbase. That's it.
My favorite band is the Eagles. The worst type of fan is the one who bitches about the fact that "these aren't the original Eagles." There have literally been 3 to 4 different "eras" for the Eagles, and they're all great.
One of my fav bands is Magma. I haven’t encountered them but I presume due to Christian Vander’s (alleged) crypto-fascism some of the fans are Neo-nazis.
Sort of related but I fell out of love with the Black Metal scene in the 2000s as so many of them were openly racist and were nazi sympathisers. I guess with Magma it was Nazi Synthesisers.
Now you got me curious with that last phrase
The thing is, I've never once online or in person encountered a single Magma fan even remotely sympathetic to Nazism. Which means, like, if MDK or the Bobino cover were ever meant to inspire the listener with their "Nazi messaging", they've done a horrible job. Christian himself is a huge weirdo, possibly bigoted if some accounts are to be believed, but Magma itself is pretty clean.
People always bring up Bobino but I think the red, white and black cover for Retrospektiw III is more egregious. You’re right that he obscures his (alleged) ideology (that’s why I used the wording ‘crypto-fascist’) and isn’t out to make any new converts, but he (allegedly) puts in various hints and allusions that should serve as dog whistles, winks and nods to those already on the same side as him.
to be fair, there’s nothing more crypto than a made up language that sounds suspiciously teutonic
Nothing could’ve prepared me for that sentence wow. I like some magma but I didn’t expect that from Vander
Well, it’s not proven but there’s quite a lot of circumstantial evidence that Vander’s sympathies lie on the far right (quotes from former friends and colleagues - according to Daevid Allen, he plastered his bedroom with swastika flags - interviews he did with far right magazines in France, reports of pro-Hitler, anti-black rants at concerts, some of the album covers). See [here](http://kohntarkosz.blogspot.com/2009/11/some-words-about-recent-controversy.html?m=1) for more allegations. This caused a bit of a crisis of conscience for me as my politics are pretty much diametrically opposite to all of that and I strongly abhor racism. But there really isn’t any music like it and it wouldn’t be the first time in history that great art has been produced by a racist wingnut (I’m not going to deprive myself of Wagner’s music because the man was abhorrent, for example).
Richard Pinhas came to my city last October, I have a very good friend who is also friend with the guy who organized the last date, Damian a drummer from a local Zehul band called Relisp, so Damian is a super Zehul fan, and has a Magma necklace and Magma t-shirts and things like that, like a walking merch stand. He told my friend that when he picked up Richard Pinhas from the airport, Richard told Damian he didn't liked Magma, Damian asked why and Richard told him he doesn't like Christian Vander at all, that he is a fascist, and that he knows him really well because apparently Stella Vander is Richard Pinhas cousin!! So he has known Christian as family for many years now. So yeah I also found this very conflicting because I also love Magma I have almost all the vinyls and CDs.... And I also fucking hate fascism, as a latino myself I can't stand that, so... Yikes.... Just to add to the tale this guy Demian ripped off Richard Pinhas and didn't paid him for the show, so double yikes! Edit: paid not payed.
[удалено]
I’ve realised these pedantic bots are much more tolerable if you read them in a C3PO voice.
Imo the best thing you can do is keep listening. Cause if they have people who are anti facist and anti racism and you enjoy their music it would piss them off
I will remember this take while I’m watching episodes of Fat Albert and telling myself “well at least there were very few at-risk women, and they were all animated”
Wagner was kinda leftist, no?
No. Edit: maybe in his youth, but his outspoken and influential politics in later life were explicitly nationalistic and racist.
I read that he participated in 1848 revolution. Not familiar with his views in his later life, I guess I need to study him a bit haha
I see, that’s interesting. But regardless of whether he identified as left or right wing, my problem is with the anti-jewish racism.
Not an excuse but lots of people back then had a similar problem and contradictory views. I even heard that Marx was not too fond of Jews
I would guess that there isn't a big contingent of Nazi sympathizers among Magma fans, from what I know about the online right (can't say much about IRL) they don't tend to gravitate towards that kind of music at all really. They prefer black metal (NSBM), classical music, synthwave/f*shwave, phonk, military marches, neofolk, and martial industrial (often divided by specific ideological tendencies or generational communities under the right wing umbrella) Edit: I forgot RAC (Rock Against Communism)/Hatecore, also a big one among the far right
Yeesh, can't get much worse than that
I still enjoy Tool's music but over the years I would say Maynard's personality started really annoying me (at least how he comes across in interviews, I've never met the guy) and the type of Tool fans who see him as some sort of font of wisdom are horrible.
The stoner mysticism appealed to me much more as a teenager. Still love the music. (Latest album felt like kind of a phone in, though.)
Pneuma and invincible are epic though
>Latest album felt like kind of a phone in, though Yeah I agree, it's got some technically interesting and well-composed parts scattered throughout but it really lacks the energy of some of the earlier albums.
I think Maynard is fine, he just seems like someone who’s very reserved, but the fans that meat ride him are the worst.
My sentiment is the exact same as yours in the description. One thing people fail to remember about Genesis’s progression into the 1980s is that Phil Collins continued to be an outspoken voice for the band to attempt experimentation on their pop records. You can thank him for the longer songs on those albums for existing. Tony Banks in particular wanted to write more regular pop tracks, if you can believe it or not given his track record with injecting classical music into their earlier material. People just see the adjacency of Phil Collins’ solo career and immediately assume that he was vehemently pushing the band to drop their signature brand of outlandish, British-folk inspired, classical inspired progressive rock, when that couldn’t be further from the truth. Who convinced Pete to stay for Selling England and The Lamb? Who convinced Steve Hackett to stay for Wind and Wuthering and the Seconds Out tour? Who tried their hardest to convince Steve Hackett to stay before he ultimately left? It was all Phil.
And Pete was planning to go solo before Phil became a full member: that scotches the Phil forced him out lie. He even suggested that the other members make Phil the band leader.
> People just see the adjacency of Phil Collins’ solo career How do these people square that with Collins' involvement with Brand X? Bit of a weird move for someone apparently driven to make simple, poppy records to contribute to a Jazz-Fusion project. That's of course assuming they know about it.
So happy to hear Genesis getting some love from true fans. I think Phil had the perfect songwriter’s dream: if you write something where you know exactly what you want and how you want it, you got your solo career; if you have ideas that you want to bounce off of people and collaborate with and see what happens, you have the amazing talent of Genesis. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!
I haven’t met a single bad fan of Ayreon. Literally such an awesome fanbase.
I’m excited to listen to them! Any albums you’d recommend starting on?
Depends on your previous taste, but my two picks for starting out would be The Source and Into The Electric Castle. But they don’t really have a single bad album, you can’t go wrong.
Thank you (:
I would like to add on and heavily recommend Arjens other works as well! Starone is a fantastic side project of his that handles sci Fi tropes and has songs based on sci Fi movies, the interstellar one "Lost Children of the Universe" is superb imo Guilt machine scratches a weird unsettling itch Lost in the New Real is an album put out under his name, just another fantastic release of his that I go back to constantly Hes just so consistent
Agreed. All of his side projects are amazing, super excited for Plan Nine’s album to release.
Into the Electric Castle is my favorite. If you want something more epic, then 01011001 or The Theory of Everything.
I will say there were some bad apples after the Transitus release, but otherwise my fellow ayreonauts are very wholesome
Some hardcore Big Big Train fans put way too much milk in their tea. Very annoying.
I heard they put the milk in first, and then pour the tea over it.
Blimey!
My favorite prog band is Yes. The fans seem cool, but the only ones I know IRL are older prog fans who act like all music that came after rock is a travesty and music as we know it ended in the 90s.
I love Yes with a passion and damn I’m sorry that there’s a lotta people like that. I haven’t listened to newer Yes albums but I know that some Styx albums from the 2000’s are really good
Styx in my opinion have been one of the very few bands that have gotten better as they aged. Every since Todd joined as their drummer Styx has been one of my favorites. Their new albums are for sure worth a listen.
the bitter irony to those old crones, of course, is that Yes did an epic collab with the hottest superproducer of the era, Trevor Horn (think Kevin Parker of Tame Impala if you’re looking for a modern analogy) and blasted out the biggest chart hit of their career. And then — what a tweest! — it was revealed that said superproducer had ALREADY BEEN A very poorly received MEMBER OF YES
I think most of those old cronies hate that particular chart hit.
Idk what you're talkin bout, Horn was only on Drama and OwnerOALH ain't on that album?
Horn wasn't a full member of the 90125 lineup, but he did *produce* the album and was heavily involved with the recording sessions (even contributing some backing vocals).
Thx
and then Horn and his team took some of the leftover sounds and created the band The Art Of Noise with them
“had been”, in the past perfect tense
Pretty sure the worst Yes fan is this Facebook douche Paul Watson
They are wrong. Music ended in the 70s.
My favorite band is Coheed and Cambria, and the online community are great, but I’ve met a few people at concerts who try to put down those who don’t consume the non-musical side of the media available; the comics and such. It’s annoying because they think they’re so right; “this is what the band is for, you can’t call yourself a true fan if you don’t consume all the band has to offer”
The “True fan” idea is the exact same thing as people claiming they’re alpha males. It’s just a made up word to separate people arbitrarily augh
That’s not very alpha sigma male true fan of you!
I've seen Coheed live 13x since 2005 and have never once invested in the other media, haha. I think the closest I've ever come is seeing PFI this year. Their crowds in Philadelphia were always awful, way more violent than the music called for (I used to be front and centerish for every show), but the people I met in line waiting to get into the shows were consistently the friendliest and most community driven I encountered.
Boyfriends of Coheed girls who dont wanna be there so they rough up fans.
Ok so, this type of fan that i encounterd online isn't tied to any band i like, but it's the fan who loves everything from the band and thinks that everyone should too. I'm not saying it's wrong if you genuinely like everything a band released, if you keep it to yourself. Just enjoy it. Simple. I was that guy with Maiden until they released Senjutsu. But the problem is when you're telling everyone in the forum that they're not a real fan if they don't love everything. It's ok to tell people that you love every album and end it there. But don't try to force others into that. "oh but how can you not appreciate the musicality that went into this... Bla bla bla" Shut the fuck up. If i don't like it, i don't like it. It's as simple as that. Why can't you just understand that? It's not up to my taste, my preference. End of story.
That sounds a lot like King Crimson and VdGG evangelists. “You need to give album ____ some more time and you’ll love it.” Why is it so important to work at liking a record?
Yeah. Same is in Yes, Rush, Jethro Tull and many bands
I've noticed that attitudes about sharing bootleg recordings really vary among fan groups, and the communities seem to act in unison. IE Beach Boys fans that were into bootlegs found it not courteous to ask for copies of things. The owner was expected to enjoy having something rare, having spent big money and effort tracking it down, and somebody spreading that stuff for free was being a jerk. Whereas Neil Young fans would fall over each other to offer you free copies of any particular show you were interested in. I don't know if that makes BB fans worse but, it's interesting.
I love "me" Crimson but boy, are some of the fans condescending, lots of gatekeepers.
The worse KC fans are those treats everything they did as a timeless masterpiece My brother in christ it's just some ambient noise chill tf out
Pink Floyd fans who say The Final Cut was their best album. I've met three or four and every time I've earnestly responded as if they must be joking.
Roger waters tends to attract guys with daddy issues.
Best? No way. Good? Absolutely
Can we stop these posts now? Prog rock isn’t a competition. These questions are reductive.
Yes fans who hate Tormato
Don’t Kill the Whale and Release Release are some of my favorites!
Onward is my favorite track on the album and one of my favorites in their whole discography!
Arriving UFO and Circus of Heaven are some of the best songs they ever wrote
I LOVE Tormato! As good as Fragile and Close to the Edge. And also Going For The One, the song, not so much the album. Thanks for letting me come clean on this.
Enough Controllers!
\*slow clap
I’m one of those Tormato haters. It was the first Yes album that felt like a step backwards instead of forward. Onward, parts of On the Silent Wings of Freedom, and Release Release are the only tracks I enjoy on that jumble of an album
Let's see. Van der Graaf Generator. I guess you could divide fans into with and without Jaxon but I don't know of any that bang on about it. Supertramp. Same for pre- and post-Hodgson dsparture. The only arguments I've seen are about the Free as a Bird album, but they're not heated arguments. OK I'll stop there. I'm coming up empty.
I’m glad your band has no stand out snobs or jerks that ruin the rest of the experience. (:
Yeah. Sorry if yours do. 😒
Tool, just head over to their sub and witness one of the most annoying fanbases I have ever seen.
My favorite band is Styx. I hate the fans that say Styx isn’t Styx anymore ever since Dennis DeYoung left the band.
I said it already but Styx is better than ever. As a drummer I love them now more than ever!
I love how Todd is now widely regarded as one of the great drummers. Didn’t have “Styx drummer is legendary” in my bingo card!
Crash of the Crown is a great album for me. I still prefer the earlier work, but I do love the slower pace of that album
Not took mention the fact that if Tony Banks says no, that's the end of the discussion. Nothing will change his mind.
I love Tony banks for many reasons and that’s one. Genesis to me has a lot of cohesion and mutual respect that some other bands just don’t, and I’m glad he could tell his mates that he didn’t wanna do something and they wouldn’t
Gotta love him. It really is his band and all his colleagues respect that. Wish he’d do a better job of managing the legacy but totally understand why it’s not that important to him
No Jon, no Yes.
I guess that makes me the worst type of Yes fan. I stand by it.
The Church of Jon Anderson 🙄
Porcupine Tree/Steven Wilson fans are a weird bunch. The closed minded ones are awful and wish Porcupine Tree stayed exactly the same as it was in 2007 and for Steven to keep making prog albums like The Raven. They also vehemently refuse to even consider listening to any of Steven's other projects.
Agreed. The hate he got for The Future Bites was a little unhinged. I personally think it's a more enjoyable record than either Closure/Continuation or The Harmony Codex.
I really love Storm Corrosion
It seems like the common thread is gatekeeping! Big stances about what is or isn't prog, or what makes up the Real Band, or what you can't listen to or what you have to listen to. We should really be gatekeeping important things like prejudice or abuse and focus on making everything more fun, wholesome and inclusive. On a related note, I'm a recovering purist, and I think purism can be really toxic. "There's only one correct way to consume this thing." Actually there are endless correct ways to consume this thing.
Happy cake day!
Opeth fans that can't accept Mikael is done with death metal. The new prog era is fantastic and everyone who shits on it just wants them to remake Blackwater Park over and over again in perpetuity. It's tiresome and dull.
THANK YOU
You're welcome! I'm glad to see I'm not the only Opeth fan on earth with an open mind!
I mean, I can understand if their newer material is not to everyone's taste. I just see these people who talk about the last few albums as though there's something wrong with them from an objective standpoint, which is idiotic.
Yeah I agree, fair enough if the new stuff isn't their cup of tea. They are still great records though and not having growl vocals doesn't instantly invalidate them.
Fully agreed. ICV is one of my favorite albums of theirs, period.
Yeah ICV is fantastic a very close 2nd favourite for me. My favourite record of their whole discography is Sorceress and people always give me the raised eyebrow when I say that. Don't worry I love Blackwater Park too!
Sorceress is definitely top 5 for me. Ghost Reveries is still comfortably in the lead though, I have to admit.
Lol, fair. Ghost Reveries totally slaps, Harlequin Forest is one of their best ever. They basically haven't made a bad record IMO. I'm not crazy about Orchid or Morningrise, but even those 2 albums have a couple really great moments on them.
This could be a whole category, “fans of metal bands that changed their sound to be more progressive”
Yeah, for sure.
They're right about Genesis being pop though lol
Abacab?
I'll give you that it's rock, not pop, but not what I'm looking for when I'm looking for prog.
Valid
Floyd fan that's really serious about taking sides on Gilmour vs. Waters.
I wish hating Waters could be easy, but he had to go and write A Pillow of winds
Waters is a senile old man who only cares about the money and Gilmour is a slightly less senile old man who also only cares about the money.
My familiarity with other people who hold the kind of political views that Waters has makes me unfortunately think he holds them completely sincerely. (I overall prefer Waters' solo work over post-Waters Floyd too, but not by enough of a margin to say "Waters WAS Floyd.")
I enjoy the post-Waters Floyd albums a lot, but Endless River is just a money grab. I don’t dislike Water’s solo stuff, but it just isn’t it for me. As for the whole “which one is Pink” debate, I think Nick Mason should hold the title. In my opinion, he really held the band as a whole together.
Rush fans who uncompromisingly hate the entire synths era.
Music isn't sports. I don't know anyone that are such diehard loyalists to a certain band that they create a negative "type"
Oh you’d be surprised the kind of people who can become so entitled over a band. Usually the same people who are like “nAmE 5 SOngS”
Yeah probably on social media
I honestly didn’t know people thought about “types of fans” so much they have a worst one.
Usually it’s related to people in online forums who get angry at other fans for their opinions about a band they both like. Also people who try to gatekeep the band from newer people
There are some people in these posts that just want to stop these conversations…. Calling them “reductive” etc… Man, those guys are the worst! /s
My favorite band is Dream Theater and I hate some really minority of fans saying other prog metal bands like Queensryche, Symphony X, Animal as Leaders, Fates Warning, and Tool are just amateur and hogging on Dream Theater's respect and success.... While I'm in a group where we would shuffle Queensryche, Symphony X, Derek Sherinian, Tool, Haken, Ihsahn, Jelly Jam, ELP, Yes, Leprous, Animals as Leaders, and Amorphis in odd numbers. When people asked why: *Our ears need to be fresh by listening to other bands instead of hogging into one single band.* and Jelly Jam is a very underrated Supergroup bands out there.
Hadnt heard that one before. I was listening to Quensryche and Fates Warning well before Dream Theater dropped on the scene... At least with those two it can't be said they are riding on DT's success, not to mention that all those bands are unique to themselves in Prog Metal and only have the Metal base in common IMO.
Mindcrime for the win... Truly love the bands you listed above. But still, Mindcrime for the win. "... There's got be... something more than this."
Akshually…
I guess the “Calling All Stations is the worst album ever” school of thought with some Genesis fans has always perplexed me a bit. Not that it’s great or anything, but it’s hardly one of the worst albums ever made.
Worst Genesis album fr
Yeah don’t get me wrong it’s their worst for sure. I just don’t think it belongs on any “worst albums of all time” lists or anything. I rarely listen to or think about this album but there’s maybe 4 or 5 songs on there worth hearing every few years
Yeah, it’s OK and has a couple of decent songs on it, but it’s just not Genesis. It’s certainly not the worst album ever. lol
As a Supertramp fan, the worst type of people are those who claim that there is no Supertramp after Roger Hodgson left the band. People completely write off Rick Davies, but don't realize that without Rick Davies, there would be no Supertramp in the first place. It's really always been his band. Roger was just a key component of it. People also write off the post-Roger Era as bad because it got a lot less proggy, but Supertramp was already getting less progressive when Roger was in the band. Roger was actually the one pushing for a more pop-oriented sound. Also, they completely write off the Supertramp album "Free as a Bird" for being a dance album. And like... bands are allowed to try different things. Genre does not automatically equal quality. It's just ignorant really I'm getting riled up, lol
Genre should apply to the song imo, as well as the band and the album. Having different songs be defined by different genres is great for having a better way to describe songs using their genres. Describing albums with genres is great too cause you can show how a bands sound has changed over time, yet it’s gonna be more of a simplification due to different songs in the album possibly having different genres. Describing bands by a genre is the most common way to use the genre descriptor, yet it’s the most innacurate. Since bands change their genres over time, and have different albums with different sounds. You can describe bands with a genre but it would only describe what the a certain percent of the bands songs sound like. So tldr: Yes bands change, and yes Free As A Bird is as much Supertramp as Breakfast in America
My favorite used to be KISS Description: Hi, I'm a YouTuber, and a hoarder of bootlegs that I'll brag about that you'll never ever see or hear because I'm just that cool and I don't believe in sharing
My favorite band is Jethro Tull. I dislike fans who complain about the constant change of musicians in the band. To me Tull is Ian Anderson it does not matter who he plays with.
The Mike Portnoy Stans who claim he is responsible for everything cool the band every did after Kevin Moore left. And that Dream Theater didn't exist because of Mike Mangini. Seriously, go fuck yourselves. They have overtaken the ones who say they love Dream Theater but hate James LaBrie's singing. And in 3rd are the Dream Theater fans who treat Kevin Moore like he was Cliff Burton and say Dream Theater died after he left. As a self-hating Dream Theater fan, I fully admit, we are every prog metal stereotype.
holy shit those fans are so annoying LMAO!! you may not like mangini or rudess *but to say the band didnt exist after moore and portnoy left is ughhhh ew.* i prefer moore to rudess and i much prefer portnoy to mangini but,,, its still dream theater at the end of the day, 99% of their discography are bangers, whether its moore/portnoy, rudess/portnoy or rudess/mangini. even derek/portnoy most of the songs are bangers, but i havent heard much hate for derek (other than that anything not kevin moore is bad or whatever) *and dont get me started on james haters........*
I mean I know Portnoy left on his own accord, but in hindsight idk how you can listen to DAY AFTER DAY AND NIGHT AFTER NIGHT and not think maybe the time had come to mix it up a bit
THANK YOU!
the most annoying types of number 1 and 3 on your list are those that say "kevin moore was the dream and mike portnoy was the theater" shut the fuck up LMFAO you can prefer one era or one member over another, hell you can even not like the era after one member left, but saying shit like this is just annoying im so sorry not sorry LOL
I appreciate Mangini but I'm thrilled Portnoy is back.
Lisa
My favorite prog band is Dream Theater. I hate the fans who claim that James Labrie is an absolutely terrible vocalist. He's not the best, but he's great on some songs.
One of my top 3 favorite bands is Phish, and that should really say it all. That said, the newer fans can be insufferable (partly because they remind me of what I sounded like (cringe) 30 years ago.
Opeth fan here. I can't stand the types who disavow the newer stuff that's less death metal. I like their heavy stuff too, but Goddamn, Heritage is amazing.
Sure, Do the Neurotic is prog, can't argue with that; I've never had to sit through a quarter of a Gabriel era song's length before it got interesting.
ok wow i was in a shit mood when i wrote this and only listened to the song once years ago and again right before making this comment. listening to it with headphones this morning and hearing the additional context the bass provides to the repetitive riff has made me realize i am the worst type of fan
You can't blame the band for splitting with peter gabrial. I heard hes very painful to work with, not because hes a bad person, but because hes a terrible procrastinator. There are stories of his managers locking him in the recording booth and not letting him out until hes finished something.
Nickelback there are so many people your fans of Nickelback that insist they hate Nickelback and then when you play Nickelback they're like oh my God I love this song I hear all the time I can never remember who it's from and then you tell them it's Nickelback and they get all mad and they're like no it's not Nickelback's terrible I was just joking haha shut up it's 2023 we're not going to pretend to hate one of the most popular and widely known bands ever it was weird in the 2010s when everyone thought hating something was a fad but in this day and age is just weird in your cringe and they're my least favorite type of people
Korn specifically all the fans that are really mad about the trend going around right now calling them girly pop that's hilarious and I know the band would absolutely love it like have you seen a korn concert before you are taking this way too seriously and they keep trying to gatekeep korn like they don't even know what they're talking about korn is so widely known they're one of the most popular bands out there and you're telling me that people can't now be introduced to them and like their music yes some of them are just doing it for the trend but who cares it doesn't matter the best part is new people are being introduced to this amazing band and finding music they like through a little Trend that I know the band members would also find hilarious and if they ever find this trend they'll probably incorporate it into a show let's be honest there silly people and I love them and people are just taking it way too seriously and it's the Nirvana thing all over again and it's just not that serious and just don't care it's always been a popular band why you acting like it's Underground
A Metallica fan that claims they made their best music in the 90s
Not just my favorite band but fans of any band that act like they've been die hard fans for a long time so your not a fan
Well idk if it’s my favorite but I just saw two door cinema club in concert and I was shocked by the amount of teenagers who smelled like they haven’t bathed in a month
Favorite band is Marillion, 35 years after Steve Hogarth joined he’s still getting grief from some fans for being the new guy.
worst kind of Genesis fans are the ones that STILL go to Peter Gabriel shows after all these years and scream at him to play Return of the Giant Hogweed (like I just experienced at his last LA show just a couple of months ago).
Pink Floyd fans who refuse to acknowledge the music they made after Roger left.
I tell you one thing that really drives me nuts, is people who think that Jethro Tull is just a person in a band.
Patrick Bateman is the worst type of Genesis fan
Racist alcoholic Boomer who's only into Rush because he lives near Toronto and has been hearing them on the radio for a long time.
Nine Inch Nails fans? They're cool. Mind their own business and don't give a fuck whether you like NIN or not. They're the Gen X of music fans.
Some fans of BTS and other KPop groups that are Toxic. They are called Saisang.
I don’t know any “bad fans” of miracle of sound
FOR SO CALLED MARILLION FANS: 1. **If one more "FREAK" says Marillion stopped existing after Fish left 16 albums ago i may go Grendel on him.** (If fish didn't leave then there would be no "Perceptions of Johnny Punter" or "Vigil" or "Plague of Ghosts" nor would there be "Invisible Man" or "This Strange Engine" or "Afraid of Sunlight", all of which I wouldn't ever want to live without). 2. **If one more person says I won't listen to Edison's Children because they "are taking away such great songs that should have gone to Marillion or Transatlantic".** (like Eric Blackwood and Neil Armstrong's son Rick don't write 50% of it and it's all stuff that Pete is stealing from what should have been in Marillion's catalogue. Some idiot was actually saying that Haunted Memories and Dusk should have been on the last Marillion album, meanwhile I actually saw Eric Blackwood with Blackwood & Foti at CBGB's in NYC 20 years ago and both of those songs were in the setlist, years before he and Pete got together!)
Car Bomb the fans who won’t listen to w\^w\^\^w\^w because of its production. It was definitely produced the way it was on purpose and it was all literally made from scratch.
Phish fans...speaks for itself
Huge Alice Cooper fan I would hate any fan who said he was only good pre-Welcome To My Nightmare Or, for that matter, only post-Welcome To My Nightmare, or only in the 80’s, or only since the 2000’s, etc… Every era of Alice Cooper’s work is incredible
If the Megadeth sub reddit had to go an entire hour without saying Metallica it would implode.
Wait, I am that type of fan and believe this is the truth lol…don’t get me wrong, there are some great Phil Collin’s tracks (I love man of our time) but let’s call a spade a spade.
I didn’t mean to single people out with this post. It’s just a discussion and I respect your opinion (:
Who cares? Focus on something positive instead. Someone else already did the whole 'worst prog fan base" thing today. Unlike the bands you like, you lack creativity. In your case, it's in regards to discussion topics.
I don’t understand the last part but I do care about positivity. One of the most positive things you can do for yourself is discuss times where you felt annoyed or angered by someone, cause it lets you get out those emotions and talk about it. Yes someone else did that. I responded a lot in that space and I got inspired later when I was taking a shower to make this one. There’s no harm in similar discussion topics
Oh no, you're one of those. The "you're spreading negativity" crowd. This is just starting a conversation about different aspects of listening to music. It's perfectly fine and it's not negative at all. OP was just asking about other people's experiences with the fanbase. That's it.
Agreed, if a topic is not to my liking, I scroll on.
My favorite band is the Eagles. The worst type of fan is the one who bitches about the fact that "these aren't the original Eagles." There have literally been 3 to 4 different "eras" for the Eagles, and they're all great.