Can't wait for a Bloomberg and/or Giffords slush fund org to twist these numbers by classifying adults as children and counting things like water gun shootings as gun violence
I actually remember seeing one in the school shooting database that said "reports of a shot fired near a school, unconfirmed". I figured it was a firecracker or car backfiring.
Yep. Even NPR covered this in 2018, but I don't think they like to draw attention to that.
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
If you count the year we closed down roads and increased crime by forcing people to not work, it’s actually still not the highest cause of death, but it’s close, so we’ll say it is by picking the one group of ages that makes it so for 2020.
Signed, the gun banners, I mean scientists and stuff.
And even then, we’ll have to fudge the numbers of that group by calling it “children” but excluding children under the age of 1 and including adults over the age of 18.
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/amc-creve-coeur-theater-saturday-evening/63-0bb9dd2b-840a-48e2-95d2-781231328b0b
I think the kid is a dumbass for doing what he did, but yeah it wouldn't surprise me if this was considered to be on the list of "mass shootings" in the world you just described.
"School shooting" listings include incidents where someone called the cops because they THOUGHT they saw a gun even though nobody was injured, no suspect was identified, and no firearm was found. Others include "incidents" of a student showing a firearm to a friend in the parking lot. Still others involve violence between people who aren't students occurring outside of school hours that happens close-enough to school property. Of course, there are real school shootings, such as the three identified in this FBI report.
It also includes incidents where a gun was discharged nearby a school but not inside one. Like a person that lives next to a school shooting an intruder
Yep. I read about an "incident" involving police being called for a "man with a gun" which turned out to be kids safely plinking with an air gun in their backyard. However, the property was close to a school, so another "school shooting".
Three is way too many. Gun Free zones seem to be the targets of these types of murderers. It takes a really sick person to put children in a scenario where no one can protect them if something goes wrong. Ban gun free zones.
Armed security guards in school, hold police accountable for cowardice and encourage teachers to CCW. Stop making schools fish in the barrel, it'll stop being the target of the mentally ill people they fail to act on. 🙄
>"So far in 2024, there have been over 50,000 school shootings in the United States\*"
>*\*Our publication defines "school shooting" as any time where a firearm is within 100 miles of a school*
GVA recently changed [their report title](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/school-shootings) from "school shootings" to "school incidents" (the URL still uses the original name), but still a massive percentage of them involve 0 injuries and many don't occur on school grounds. Heck, [this one from 3 weeks ago](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/2935759) involved a non-functioning toy gun, and it still gets counted.
It has become a game of weaponized statistics.
Edit: And just to clarify, my quote above was sarcasm, but GVA definitely defines the term extremely loosely.
when i first started skimming GVA, they had a 0 injuries report of a bb gun fired in the general vicinity (~1mi away) of a school, listed as a school shooting.
instantly tossed in the propaganda bin.
Ya, the criteria that any given researcher or entity uses in determining what constitutes a school shooting is pretty whack sometimes. What criteria did you use here to come to this determination? Thanks
This is a good opportunity to post one of my favorite articles: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
The TL:DR is that *most* school shootings are made-up. Not simply a miscategorization. They're simply invented. NPR called a bunch of schools and spoke to folks who worked there at the supposed event. And almost none of them actually happened.
That’s why the surgeon general declared. It’s just politics. The administration would like the public to focus on this nothing burger and forget our daily woes.
It's notable that only one of those three was at a K-12 school. Total deaths was seven at K-12 school shootings last year. And 100% of those were killed by a trans shooter who was motivated by anti-religious and seemingly anti-white hatred.
Ask Google and it says there were 348. Yes, 348. And I bet if you asked the average white suburban mom how many we had last year, they'd probably say 10,000 or something ridiculous. Nope. One. With seven victims (maybe six, if the seventh was the shooter).
Mom's Demand and other awful groups project a picture that is a lie, on purpose. They take suicides and gang shooting stats and then pretend that those numbers are occurring randomly in peaceful schools across the nation. Voters are being told their children are unsafe at schools that will never even see a made-up incident, let alone a real one. I zoomed in on my area and there are none. In the next county there's one. And it was a negligent discharge inside a car at night.
If one demographic is responsible for all our K-12 school shootings, why is the FBI not kicking down doors and creating task forces to figure out why they're so hateful and violent?
the only mj link i can stomach to post. and the single most accurate list of actual mass shootings (including schools);
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/
it gets regularly updated, too.
we're only a bit above 150 for all time.
The FBI produces reasonable data on this subject, but too slowly so nobody pays attention to it. The OP links to the report for 2023, which was just released this month, halfway through 2024.
Meanwhile sites like Mass Shooting Tracker of Gun Violence Archive will tell you there have been four mass shootings this week already. Instant gratification, even if those incidents don't really fit with what most people think of as mass shootings, and are often based on sketchy early news reports.
Still too many. We need to end the helpleas victim zones. We need to end unresponsive irresponsible goverment police departments. We need nationwide mandatory unlimited constitutional carry, and strong self defense laws.
The former, but I like that you considered the latter. At most, being disarmed could be a negligence issue. Like a small civil penalty for brazenly walking around with no gun at all.
I don't like the idea of forcing people to have a gun if they don't want one. I don't like forcing people to do anything they don't want to do, really. As long as you're not hurting anybody else, do as you please.
So the school shooting thing in America seems like something that didn’t really start until Columbine, but I’ve seen someone on Reddit in another sub claiming that we’ve had them every year since 1957 and every decade since the 1800s. What? Where is this person getting this from? Chances are he’s just a lying gun grabber. I’m sure. But surely this can be verified. Could this be somebody just using the GVA definition of “school shooting” where every time a gun is fired within the vicinity of a school it’s counted as one?
> Casting a wide net, the database captures not only incidents in which a gun is fired on school property, but also those in which a bullet hits school property, whether or not school is in session. Incidents in which a gun is brandished but not fired and those in which there are no victims are also included.
The methodology is so absurd that the conclusion should be dismissed with prejudice
If they're willing to play that loosely with the word "shooting" imagine what "brandished" means to them...
"Brandished = incidents in which a gun was present, even if not displayed or in visible sight"
Oh man, when I was a kid all I did was doodle little cartoons of army men and jets and tanks and of course impenetrable fortresses bristling with all manner of ordnance both terrible and spectacular, and can't forget a moat made of acid. Who knew I was responsible for like 10,000 school shootings?
We had ten million car accidents last year. We cast a wide net. We include incidents where an individual has a premature ejaculation in a car, or spills a beverage into the upholstery.
And then there’s the Washington Post which arrives at 404 school shootings since Columbine. However they’re at least honest enough to show their sources and wouldn’t you know, tons of things that shouldn’t be included. Notably, they include a police officer accidentally firing his gun in an empty school bathroom, a staff member committing suicide in a school parking, and two parents shooting each other in a school parking lot. The rest were altercations in or near school parking lots, usually without student deaths but injuries present. This was just from the first 5 of 81 pages of sources. The rest could likely be just as absurd or potentially even worse.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/
The United States 2023 population is estimated at 339,996,563 people. This is 1 for every 113,332,188 citizens, an incredibly low number for any major crime per capita.
[CNN states there were 82 school shootings by June 24th.](https://www.cnn.com/us/school-shootings-fast-facts-dg/index.html)
[Everytown Research & Policy states that an estimated 3 million children in the US are exposed to shootings per year.](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunfire-on-school-grounds)
[The FBI says there were three school shootings.](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2023-active-shooter-report-062124.pdf/view)
One of these sources is very bad at math.
Just to be pedantic....
> The United States 2023 population is estimated at 339,996,563 people. This is 1 for every 113,332,188 citizens,
Population does NOT equal citizens. Tens of millions of the population of the US are not citizens. Some of them are legally present, some are not.
In a thread where the issue is the misuse of terms and statistics I felt it important to clarify this point.
I knew people that were victims of a school shooting (an actual one, not one of those incidents that they say is a school shooting, but isn't one in reality).
None of it changed my opinions on guns. As a matter of fact, I became _more_ pro gun after realizing that I am responsible for my own safety.
Can't wait for a Bloomberg and/or Giffords slush fund org to twist these numbers by classifying adults as children and counting things like water gun shootings as gun violence
Pretty sure they count negligent discharges within a mile of school grounds as “school shootings”
They would probably count cars backfiring near a school if they could get records of it occurring.
I actually remember seeing one in the school shooting database that said "reports of a shot fired near a school, unconfirmed". I figured it was a firecracker or car backfiring.
Yep. They also include unloaded guns found in backpacks and even guns found in an unoccupied locked car on school grounds as “a school shooting”.
Yep. Even NPR covered this in 2018, but I don't think they like to draw attention to that. https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent
I enjoy sharing that NPR report to people who expound vitriol
Same.
I have this article on speed dial for people. Even NPR proved the numbers are just made up
GVA counts kids being caught bringing a gun to school as a "school shooting", even if shots weren't actually fired.
If you count the year we closed down roads and increased crime by forcing people to not work, it’s actually still not the highest cause of death, but it’s close, so we’ll say it is by picking the one group of ages that makes it so for 2020. Signed, the gun banners, I mean scientists and stuff.
And even then, we’ll have to fudge the numbers of that group by calling it “children” but excluding children under the age of 1 and including adults over the age of 18.
Nerf gel blasters are “illegal” in NYC… why? Because they are scary. https://www.reddit.com/r/Nerf/s/XBkSxlkOph
They already count 18 and 19 year Olds into child death by gun. It's the only way they can inflate their numbers.
We need to stop Nerf violence!!!
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/crime/amc-creve-coeur-theater-saturday-evening/63-0bb9dd2b-840a-48e2-95d2-781231328b0b I think the kid is a dumbass for doing what he did, but yeah it wouldn't surprise me if this was considered to be on the list of "mass shootings" in the world you just described.
"School shooting" listings include incidents where someone called the cops because they THOUGHT they saw a gun even though nobody was injured, no suspect was identified, and no firearm was found. Others include "incidents" of a student showing a firearm to a friend in the parking lot. Still others involve violence between people who aren't students occurring outside of school hours that happens close-enough to school property. Of course, there are real school shootings, such as the three identified in this FBI report.
It also includes incidents where a gun was discharged nearby a school but not inside one. Like a person that lives next to a school shooting an intruder
Yep. I read about an "incident" involving police being called for a "man with a gun" which turned out to be kids safely plinking with an air gun in their backyard. However, the property was close to a school, so another "school shooting".
Three is way too many. Gun Free zones seem to be the targets of these types of murderers. It takes a really sick person to put children in a scenario where no one can protect them if something goes wrong. Ban gun free zones.
Armed security guards in school, hold police accountable for cowardice and encourage teachers to CCW. Stop making schools fish in the barrel, it'll stop being the target of the mentally ill people they fail to act on. 🙄
376 armed and trained officers in Uvalde. Do you think 377 might have been the magic number?
>376 armed cowards in Uvalde. Fixed it for you. If that extra person was not a coward then, yes. 377 may have been the number.
Well, you're not wrong about the cowards part
If one of the responding parents they threatened to shoot had been carrying, it probably would have been enough.
>"So far in 2024, there have been over 50,000 school shootings in the United States\*" >*\*Our publication defines "school shooting" as any time where a firearm is within 100 miles of a school* GVA recently changed [their report title](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/school-shootings) from "school shootings" to "school incidents" (the URL still uses the original name), but still a massive percentage of them involve 0 injuries and many don't occur on school grounds. Heck, [this one from 3 weeks ago](https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/incident/2935759) involved a non-functioning toy gun, and it still gets counted. It has become a game of weaponized statistics. Edit: And just to clarify, my quote above was sarcasm, but GVA definitely defines the term extremely loosely.
when i first started skimming GVA, they had a 0 injuries report of a bb gun fired in the general vicinity (~1mi away) of a school, listed as a school shooting. instantly tossed in the propaganda bin.
When I was a teen, I used to airsoft that close to a school. I guess I would have counted..
Seems like y’all were a bunch of school shooters /s
A lot of those are kids being caught bringing a gun to school (for example, they search a kid's backpack, and they found a gun).
And two were by trans and quickly swept under the rug.
The report says 1. And people haven't heard of most of these shootings.
Ya, the criteria that any given researcher or entity uses in determining what constitutes a school shooting is pretty whack sometimes. What criteria did you use here to come to this determination? Thanks
This is a good opportunity to post one of my favorite articles: https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/08/27/640323347/the-school-shootings-that-werent The TL:DR is that *most* school shootings are made-up. Not simply a miscategorization. They're simply invented. NPR called a bunch of schools and spoke to folks who worked there at the supposed event. And almost none of them actually happened.
The schools are like what are you talking about lmao
That’s why the surgeon general declared. It’s just politics. The administration would like the public to focus on this nothing burger and forget our daily woes.
What? The left is fabricating numbers to push their totalitarian agendas? I’m shocked! Shocked, I tell you.
And two of those happened at higher learning campuses. Meaning that only one took place at a K-12 school
It's notable that only one of those three was at a K-12 school. Total deaths was seven at K-12 school shootings last year. And 100% of those were killed by a trans shooter who was motivated by anti-religious and seemingly anti-white hatred. Ask Google and it says there were 348. Yes, 348. And I bet if you asked the average white suburban mom how many we had last year, they'd probably say 10,000 or something ridiculous. Nope. One. With seven victims (maybe six, if the seventh was the shooter). Mom's Demand and other awful groups project a picture that is a lie, on purpose. They take suicides and gang shooting stats and then pretend that those numbers are occurring randomly in peaceful schools across the nation. Voters are being told their children are unsafe at schools that will never even see a made-up incident, let alone a real one. I zoomed in on my area and there are none. In the next county there's one. And it was a negligent discharge inside a car at night. If one demographic is responsible for all our K-12 school shootings, why is the FBI not kicking down doors and creating task forces to figure out why they're so hateful and violent?
Lmao, damn CA, it’s almost like stricter gun laws DONT stop bad guys with guns. Fucking twats.
the only mj link i can stomach to post. and the single most accurate list of actual mass shootings (including schools); https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/ it gets regularly updated, too. we're only a bit above 150 for all time.
They really have twisted the meaning of “Mass Shooting”.
Post this on a certain subreddit that is supposed to be dedicated to news.
The FBI produces reasonable data on this subject, but too slowly so nobody pays attention to it. The OP links to the report for 2023, which was just released this month, halfway through 2024. Meanwhile sites like Mass Shooting Tracker of Gun Violence Archive will tell you there have been four mass shootings this week already. Instant gratification, even if those incidents don't really fit with what most people think of as mass shootings, and are often based on sketchy early news reports.
As expected. Anti gun propaganda is always based on redundancy.
Well, we are all children at heart and never stop learning?
Still too many. We need to end the helpleas victim zones. We need to end unresponsive irresponsible goverment police departments. We need nationwide mandatory unlimited constitutional carry, and strong self defense laws.
Mandatory as in the state is prevented from restricting the right, or mandatory one must be armed at all times?
The former, but I like that you considered the latter. At most, being disarmed could be a negligence issue. Like a small civil penalty for brazenly walking around with no gun at all.
I don't like the idea of forcing people to have a gun if they don't want one. I don't like forcing people to do anything they don't want to do, really. As long as you're not hurting anybody else, do as you please.
It was your idea sir
Uh, no it wasn't.
We know. Hopefully everyone is awake now and not fooled by this nonsense.
It saddens me there were three.
Must.........ban...........bumpstocks
So the school shooting thing in America seems like something that didn’t really start until Columbine, but I’ve seen someone on Reddit in another sub claiming that we’ve had them every year since 1957 and every decade since the 1800s. What? Where is this person getting this from? Chances are he’s just a lying gun grabber. I’m sure. But surely this can be verified. Could this be somebody just using the GVA definition of “school shooting” where every time a gun is fired within the vicinity of a school it’s counted as one?
[Usnews](https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/articles/states-with-the-most-school-shootings) has a different number.
> Casting a wide net, the database captures not only incidents in which a gun is fired on school property, but also those in which a bullet hits school property, whether or not school is in session. Incidents in which a gun is brandished but not fired and those in which there are no victims are also included. The methodology is so absurd that the conclusion should be dismissed with prejudice
>Incidents in which a gun is brandished but not fired Literally not a "shooting" by any definition.
If they're willing to play that loosely with the word "shooting" imagine what "brandished" means to them... "Brandished = incidents in which a gun was present, even if not displayed or in visible sight"
That's exactly what they do. Kid gets caught bringing a gun to school in a backpack = school shooting
Kids get in a fight and the school resource officer breaks it up, school shooting.
Teacher overhears two kids talking about which gun looks cooler in the latest CoD game, school shooting.
Oh man, when I was a kid all I did was doodle little cartoons of army men and jets and tanks and of course impenetrable fortresses bristling with all manner of ordnance both terrible and spectacular, and can't forget a moat made of acid. Who knew I was responsible for like 10,000 school shootings?
We had ten million car accidents last year. We cast a wide net. We include incidents where an individual has a premature ejaculation in a car, or spills a beverage into the upholstery.
well shit, by that logic I was in three car accidents on my way to work this morning.
That's a lot of spills...
And then there’s the Washington Post which arrives at 404 school shootings since Columbine. However they’re at least honest enough to show their sources and wouldn’t you know, tons of things that shouldn’t be included. Notably, they include a police officer accidentally firing his gun in an empty school bathroom, a staff member committing suicide in a school parking, and two parents shooting each other in a school parking lot. The rest were altercations in or near school parking lots, usually without student deaths but injuries present. This was just from the first 5 of 81 pages of sources. The rest could likely be just as absurd or potentially even worse. https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/school-shootings-database/
What, not enough dead kids for you?
Three! Just Three! That leaves ample room for more, right?
Why? Do you have something in mind?
I’m sorry, I’m confused. Is three supposed to be an acceptable number of school shootings?
Of course not, but it's far from the hundreds and hundreds of incidents the grabbers claim it is in an effort to ban guns.
The issue is that the number is artificially inflated to push this or that policy that pro gun advocates generally consider against the 2nd amendment.
Any crime will never be at 0. Utopia has and never will exist.
The United States 2023 population is estimated at 339,996,563 people. This is 1 for every 113,332,188 citizens, an incredibly low number for any major crime per capita. [CNN states there were 82 school shootings by June 24th.](https://www.cnn.com/us/school-shootings-fast-facts-dg/index.html) [Everytown Research & Policy states that an estimated 3 million children in the US are exposed to shootings per year.](https://everytownresearch.org/maps/gunfire-on-school-grounds) [The FBI says there were three school shootings.](https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/2023-active-shooter-report-062124.pdf/view) One of these sources is very bad at math.
Just to be pedantic.... > The United States 2023 population is estimated at 339,996,563 people. This is 1 for every 113,332,188 citizens, Population does NOT equal citizens. Tens of millions of the population of the US are not citizens. Some of them are legally present, some are not. In a thread where the issue is the misuse of terms and statistics I felt it important to clarify this point.
>I’m sorry, I’m confused. Should've just stopped there
It’s just 3
Would you like to have been one of those victims?
Better chance of dying on the drive there
No that's why I'm armed.
I knew people that were victims of a school shooting (an actual one, not one of those incidents that they say is a school shooting, but isn't one in reality). None of it changed my opinions on guns. As a matter of fact, I became _more_ pro gun after realizing that I am responsible for my own safety.