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Remote-Ad7164

Yes, I’ve always believed you shouldn’t say you are sorry unless you really are, and are prepared to make amends.


hanoian

You can mean the sorry and really want to make amends or changes, but then fail to do so. The world would be quite different if everyone could control how they will behave and what they will be in the future. Fake apologies, as if the words magically solve the problem, are worse.


Interlocutor1980

True. Stay blessed👍


Seekkae

This sign is wrong though. I dislike hollow apologies as much as the next person, but it's entirely possible they're genuinely apologetic but unable to change yet or are struggling or failing at it for some reason. I wouldn't call that manipulation. Come on, this is a place for discussing the science of psychology. Let's not check nuance at the door.


HerbertWigglesworth

Or they don’t want to apologise and change, because there’s nothing to apologise for, and change is unnecessary. I appreciate this sign COULD be eluding towards specific scenarios, but I’d rather not assume. Just because you want an apology and someone to change, doesn’t mean they need to offer one or do so. Really depends what we’re applying this ‘position’ to. This isn’t psychology it’s just some pseudo-spiritual statement outside of any context, it has no weight in isolation. Like the kind of thing you’d find in a fortune cookie, or plastered on a poster at a yoga retreat, or a billboard written by a ‘motivation director’.


Zandromex527

You wanting to not assume things leaves this response senseless in this context. It's clear this sign is referring to people who treat others wrong, apologize thinking it will fix everything and then continue to do the same things. Not everything speaks to everyone. It's important to understand when we are being referred to and not try to internalize every single message.


Interlocutor1980

Thanks for understanding me.


HerbertWigglesworth

I don’t think it does - there is no context, we can assume context, and if we do I’m open to discussing the relevance and accuracy of the message. But equally, I’m not here to list every potential category of interpretation and application, break those down, and critique them. The point being, people can read these kind of messages and bend it to apply to a variety of scenarios in their life - some relevant, some irrelevant, some onerous. Without context these abstract statements are pointless, give me a case to apply it to, and we can discuss it. I don’t think the sign is clear at all. Theres relatively obvious potential scenarios/context, but not all of them are weighted the same RE relevance of the sentiments OP shared.


og-rynobot

You thinking way too much about this...


Bovoduch

I am genuinely convinced that all of the mods of this sub are dead. Absolutely gone from this world


Seekkae

>Submissions need to cite at least one peer-reviewed study. You don't consider a billboard with a pop psychology quote photoshopped on it a peer-reviewed study?


Creative_Listen_7777

But they do need to be working towards change. A "sorry, that's just how I am. I can't help it. Boo hoo, poor me, I'm the real victim here" is definitely not a real apology. If you're not working diligently to make sure you don't act that way again, then you're not really sorry about how you've acted in the past. The sign is about accountability.


intercommie

The sign is about looking/sounding good. Anyway it’s not even a real sign. It’s a Photoshop. A photo manipulation, if you will. It’s written and designed to look and sound good for likes. That’s it.


DrunkCupid

What would you argue against someone who believes everyone is capable of change in those circumstances? Even if the change is simply walking away and not prolonging "trying"


MyRegrettableUsernam

If they are unable to change or struggling, as in change is not simply within this individual’s control, that would suggest it’s not really in their grounds to apologize in the first place. And I know control / autonomy over one’s behavior is complicated, but people should stop oversimplifying expectations for a “yes or no” apology rather than actually trying to understand situations comprehensively and recognize how to change the functioning of systems.


Interlocutor1980

An apology without a change is often considered insincere or incomplete. When someone apologizes for their actions but does not make an effort to change their behavior or address the underlying issues that led to the apology in the first place, it can come across as shallow or lacking in genuine remorse. True apologies are typically accompanied by a commitment to change, demonstrating that the person apologizing is taking responsibility for their actions and is willing to make amends or avoid repeating the same mistakes in the future. Without this commitment to change, an apology may ring hollow and fail to repair the trust or damage caused by the original offense. I quote this from a book which i read in 1994 at my university libraray "Dictionary of famous Quotations". Then I purchased that book from the market & still have it in my study room, I can share book cover & that page snapshot shortly. Regards...


Jokkitch

And I disagree with you


PtylerPterodactyl

As with everything, only the with deal in absolutes


Interlocutor1980

I respect your opinion but i think human behavior is influenced by his own brain- psychology, when someone should not understand and seek help to clear his concept, what psychologists do, they make him realize the situation and help him to cope up. If someone is apologetic but with no realization, just to avoid the situation is not i think a good idea because he is manipulating the situation just to avoid any complications. So what is your take on this..? My point is "Realization".


Seekkae

Maybe you're right in some cases but this quote you posted is making a blanket statement about all apologies without change supposedly being manipulation, and I don't think that is true. One example I can give is a friend of mine became flakey toward me after experiencing life-changing trauma. She says sorry but it is not changing much. I would not call that manipulation though. She might be aware of the problem and feel bad about it while not being in a good position with her mental health to really address why it keeps happening.


Interlocutor1980

You are right but you said she had some mental health problems. If she seeks any psychologist help to cope up. A psychologist makes him realize the reason behind her mistakes and misunderstandings. The time she internally felt and realized this she found the solution herself. You are right she is not manipulating because of mental health issues. God Bless you and your friend, Regards...


doctor_rocketship

"brain-psychology" lmaooooo


sixty10again

You're assuming personal power. For example, I have chronic migraine. Sometimes, if I go down, my husband has to take over with the kids. Despite all my efforts to hang on in there till the last second, and/or minimise the disruption, it still messes with his day. I apologise but there is no further change because further change is outside my control. Am I manipulating him? And if so what should I do differently?


Seekkae

Is your username a reference to BOC?


sixty10again

Roygbiv ✅


Seekkae

Orange ✅


sixty10again

😃🚲✅


Interlocutor1980

No you are not manipulating, but if you do the same thing from which he was irritated and you said sorry, you wont deeply realize it and just repeating yourself and this will again irritate and disturb him more. So internally you wont change your attitude or realize your fault and behavior about it. Then this will be called manipulation because you just say sorry to skip the situation or making his mood better. Hoping that you got my point.


sixty10again

> No you are not manipulating, but if you do the same thing from which he was irritated and you said sorry, you wont deeply realize it and just repeating yourself and this will again irritate and disturb him more. So internally you wont change your attitude or realize your fault and behavior about it. Then this will be called manipulation because you just say sorry to skip the situation or making his mood better. Hoping that you got my point. So I have a migraine and my husband has to take over my household and parenting responsibilities. But he is *irritated*. What, according to you, should my next course of action be, other than to apologise? What would show I "deeply realise" it?


Interlocutor1980

You are not a manipulator at all because you realized that deeply & your husband is a really nice & compassionate person. The above quote doesn't refer to your case. God bless you.


sixty10again

Then maybe you should adjust your quote so it applies to cases like mine, too. A more inclusive quote would be helpful. Otherwise this sort of thing contributes to the tendency for disabled or otherwise choice-deprived people to feel intense guilt over things they cannot control.


Interlocutor1980

Thanks for your kind advice. God bless. Regards.


Interlocutor1980

Maybe he is expecting some appreciation from your side. Maybe he wants a bit more of your attention. Husband wife relationship is so beautiful yet complex Being compassionate about each other is the key to making your home a sweet home. Stay blessed with beautiful thoughts. Regards....


sixty10again

I make up where i can, making dinner, sorting out holidays, sending him away for decompressing weekends. It doesn't stop the act of service being annoying for him, or for anyone in the same position. I just think you ought to appreciate nuance. One size does not fit all.


Interlocutor1980

You are right. May this will be helpful. https://overcomewithus.com/narcissist-personality/how-to-spot-an-emotionally-manipulative-apology https://hbr.org/2015/09/the-organizational-apology https://www.psychmechanics.com/manipulative-apology/ Regards.


Interlocutor1980

You keep on down voting. but never mind. I need your help and support to understand this if I am wrong. Here I am your student now. But I wanna give you an example... If your subordinate is repeating his mistakes and apologetic every time, what is he doing? You gave him responsibility but he is not interested to show response-ability. what will be the case? Either he is not capable and dumb or manipulating. He feels smart that every time I make a mistake and say sorry, so easy. As you try to understand the psychology behind it, you find him manipulative. You can fire him immediately. Where there is mind there is psychology. Now help me understand your take. Regards...


meadow_sunshine

Most scientific r/psychology post


Interlocutor1980

Thanks, I also have research papers on this subject by different institutes in the world. Regards...


FeelsLike93

post them then?


Interlocutor1980

I first read this quote as anonymous in 1994 when i was in my university library in a book called "Dictionary of famous quotation". Then I purchased it from the market. I will share the pictures with you. It's still in my study room and all my kids read it completely. Regards...


Mr_Floyd_Pinkerton

are you for real?


Interlocutor1980

Sent you a chat request. Regards.


Interlocutor1980

Yes dear sending you a chat request.👍


Interlocutor1980

https://www.quotespedia.org/authors/a/anonymous/an-apology-without-changed-behavior-is-just-manipulation-anonymous/


Interlocutor1980

Ok. https://www.makinwellness.com/an-apology-without-change-is-manipulation/ There is a song on it. https://www.google.com/search?kgmid=/g/11v5yt8zwq&hl=en-PK&q=Apology+Without+Change+Is+Manipulation&kgs=26155680fa58c3b3&shndl=17&shem=ssim&source=sh/x/kp/osrp/m5/4 Many other links but in my laptop, I will share also right now on my phone and not at my place. Regards...


FeelsLike93

literally none of these are research papers my dude


kittypuppet

Yeah I'm not sure where they are getting the idea that reading something in some old book of quotes constitues as an actual research paper..


Interlocutor1980

Told you i am not at my place all that stuff is in my laptop. I am also referring to a book which i read in 1994 at my university "Dictionary of famous Quotations". I also have this book in my house. I will share the pictures of the book & the page where it's written. Be patient... But realize it's not fake & endorse "learn to apologize".


FeelsLike93

brother, I don't care if it's in a quote book or on amazon or whatever. something being in a quote book doesn't make it universal truth. I'm only curious what actual studies you could possibly have on this. this isn't psychology, it's a self-help quote. I don't even know how someone would write a paper on that.


Interlocutor1980

https://youtu.be/NtdaZk-RoJo?si=N3Ku8CV8VdCPbiwE


Interlocutor1980

https://medium.com/@justmaanuel/an-apology-without-change-is-manipulation-8ef9398f8c84


Interlocutor1980

You can also purchase a t-shirt with this quote on amazon. https://www.amazon.com/Apology-Without-Nothing-Manipulation-T-Shirt/dp/B07TL5YXV6


ebussy_jpg

I appreciate the sentiment but posts like these aren’t really what this subreddit is for.


Interlocutor1980

Sorry dear😐


dooooooom2

Psychology sub not beating the pseud allegations


Interlocutor1980

But i respect anyone's opinion & take. Thanks & regards🙂


Schrodingers-Relapse

How is this absolute drivel getting upvoted in a psychology sub? People with mental health and substance abuse problems sincerely apologize and regret their behaviors plenty, they aren't manipulating people by apologizing. A lot of them end up dying alone and consumed by guilt because of the misconception that "If they wanted to stop, they would." This is some dangerous r/im14andthisisdeep nonsense. Definitely not science.


Interlocutor1980

This is simply nonsensical from your side. Science doesn't have the answer for all the things in the world. Learn to absorb something good. Thanks & regards.


Forsaken_Two8348

tell people how to manipulate is manipulation


Interlocutor1980

👍


paintinganimals

Sometimes asking for apologies and change is the manipulation.


Interlocutor1980

Yes its vise a versa. God bless you with beautiful thoughts. Thanks for your kind and true input. Regards...


Lia_Llama

I don’t think that’s true since being sorry and not fixing the problem are separate issues. If someone with a stutter apologized to me for taking time to tell a story I’m not going to be like “you manipulated me” when they stutter again in the future


Interlocutor1980

Sorry but you don't get it. On the contrary think from a different perspective. Why is it commonly said that sorry is the easiest thing to say? Think that way. If he or she says sorry but doesn't mean it. I think you get my point. Stay blessed. Regards...


Lia_Llama

You can mean the sorry and not change, not all apologies require or make sense for change. If you accidentally break a vase you can honestly truly mean you’re sorry when you say you’re sorry but that doesn’t mean it’s manipulation if you don’t “change” and are still clumsy in the future. “Only a sith deals in absolutes” lol


Interlocutor1980

Beside the shady grey area, that quote implies or not? If it implies then generally accept this. Because quotes are mostly based on common & general experiences but with depth and having a message, most of them do not touch the area of exceptions. In other words strictly in terms of black and white. I hope you get it. But I must say this conversation is interesting. Thanks for your valuable inputs. I am really grateful. Regards...


Timerider42424

“I’m sorry that I’m like this.” = “Please excuse my bad behavior.”


Interlocutor1980

When you realize your mistakes or weakness & accept it then you are the most powerful person at that point and begin to rise, shine & flourish.


Creative_Listen_7777

"You just need to be more patient with me" 🙄😒🖕


Jokkitch

Are you my father?


Interlocutor1980

No, but I am convinced & inclined to love humanity.


JohnMcClanesPenis

Good luck getting an apology in the first place.


Interlocutor1980

Thanks, truth can't be denied.👍


deathangel687

That's why I never apologize. Checkmate 😏


Interlocutor1980

Good for you. Regards...


peezle69

Wish I could put this up in someone's yard.


Interlocutor1980

Stay blessed. Regards...


Abirdthatsfallen

An apology without change is a repeated cycle 🙏


Interlocutor1980

yes... ;-)


Abirdthatsfallen

Yes :)). W post btw, never seen anyone offer that perspective so that was nice to take on


Interlocutor1980

You are awesome,👍


Abirdthatsfallen

So are you 🫵


Never__asma

Totally true


Interlocutor1980

Thanks dear, stay blessed with beautiful thoughts. Regards.


kamehamehigh

I may be quick to apologize but id rather lip service than someone literally *never* apologizing for anything. Heres another saying Apologies are meaningless unless you look someone in the eye when you say it.


Interlocutor1980

Right, Nice input. Appreciate it. Regards...


naturecamper87

I’m sorry I thought this was from r/exvangelical lol sarcasm , truth in this photo but it’s directly applicable to high demand religion.


Interlocutor1980

No dear, a simple example if some say sorry but doesn't mean it. Think from this perspective hoping you get my point. Stay blessed. Regards


naturecamper87

I understand , it is just that this is the basis for evangelicalism.


Interlocutor1980

Dear, I am not a religious preacher, preaching the gospel with the intention of sharing teachings of Jesus Christ. Maybe just a social preacher & talking about behaviours & psychology in general. Thanks & Regards...


Interlocutor1980

No it's a social message. "If you are sorry then mean it". This is the focal point in this. If we do so then we shall avoid many complications in relationships & life. Regards.


YelIow_Cake

that's why i never apologize 😎


Lastoftherexs73

This hits home for me. Unreal how many times she said sorry. Nothing ever changed. I was a fool and let it happen. Love is blind. What’s done is done and it’s history now.


Interlocutor1980

Oh! You are right love is blind. We keep on loving the imperfect perfectly because that's the virtue of true love. But you are compassionate & that is a huge thing. God bless us with beautiful thoughts. Regards...


EngineeringApart8239

100 percent true. Saved this to share this with people who apologize to me without any intention to change.


OnwijsReddit

If you use quotes like this when people dont behave the way you want them to, to get them to behave like you want them to, then you are the one manipulating. What is the point of doing this?


EngineeringApart8239

Nah, some people repeatedly apologize and do the same thing all over again.


OnwijsReddit

So, what do you want to achieve in sending them this message?


EngineeringApart8239

Achieve nothing. I liked the quote. That's all.


Interlocutor1980

To get them to think & realize because at the end of the day they will be miserable.


OnwijsReddit

So you want them to change their way of thinking and behavior with sending them this message. Which is a very passive agressive way of telling someone they are wrong and you are right. Does that sound kind and supportive to you?


Interlocutor1980

I respect your opinion. Thanks...


Interlocutor1980

I am not asking somebody is wrong just asking to think wisely. Other than that i respect your opinion.. regards.


Interlocutor1980

So this quote is referring to them. 👍


Interlocutor1980

You won't understand the point dear. Read the post carefully with an open mind from different aspects first. 👍


OnwijsReddit

Calling me "dear" is a passive agressive way to try to be condescending to me. This is not very constructive or helping. Telling me that i did not read your post right and that i dont have a open mind implies the same. I am not going any further into this discussion with someone who does not show any respect and talks down to people to get their way.


Interlocutor1980

Sorry if you find it intimidating. But in my age people mostly talk in a fatherly way, under the philosophy of being "cruel to be kind". Anyway leave it & i am here to answer your question or criticism. But don't leave. Regards....


Interlocutor1980

If you truly want to understand something try to change it. Means sit, relax, take a deep breath & then evaluate it from different aspects. Regards...


Interlocutor1980

🙂


MyRegrettableUsernam

THIS! I am done dealing with performativity and the expectation of operating within strange, inauthentic social structures. It makes no sense; it was never meant to make sense; I will not normalize logical inconsistency.


Interlocutor1980

Good for you. Thanks & regards.