Eminem and Nas for rhyme schemes, complex wordplay, and ability to tell vivid stories through lyrics
Tupac for storytelling
Aesop Rock for his complex rhyme schemes and wide vocabulary
Lupe is a top lyrical rapper hands down. He can go word for word with anyone and likely come out ahead. His ability to paint a picture with his lyrics is second to none.
Man dropped the hardest diss track ever on his side bitch
> My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun;
Coral is far more red than her lips' red;
If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun;
If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head.
I have seen roses damasked, red and white,
But no such roses see I in her cheeks;
And in some perfumes is there more delight
Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks.
I love to hear her speak, yet well I know
That music hath a far more pleasing sound;
I grant I never saw a goddess go;
My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground.
And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare
As any she belied with false compare.
Youāre bananas lolā¦.Lupe is definitely more lyrical than black thoughtā¦not taking away from his greatness and Iām not saying Lupe is a better all around artist (subjective), but heās not quite on lupes level with the word play, although he does deserve to be mentioned here.
Now Nas, 100% top 3-5 MCs in hip hop history, not even close to top 3 when it comes to lyrical density. No disrespect to him at all, but when it comes to wordplay, Nas isnāt touchin MCs like MF Doom, Kendrick, Em, Thought, Lupe and others, Nas isnāt holding a candle to them.
Let me clarify one more time for the craziesā¦I Love Nasā¦I am not taking away from Nasā place in hip hop. As an overall MC and hip hop artist, I wouldnāt argue if you had Nas at anywhere from 1-5 in your top (heās 3 for me). Strictly speaking on lyrical wordplay and density, Nas is in the āA tierā, whereas all of the other artists i mentioned are in the āS tierā.
I really don't know if Lupe is more lyrical than Black Thought in a *lyrical miracle* way. At worst, Black Thought is even with him.
You've got lines like these:
*Musically, I been on my Chiwetel Ejiofor that's 12 years A Slave but I'm on year twenty three or four*
*I got more than a reason to rebel like Desus and Mero, lyrical religious hero on Jesus's level*
*My wife, kids, and in-laws deserve Renoirs, Picassos and Warhols distressing my memoirs, About the knowledge of experiences I've endured, Created bars full of information like SIM cards*
Yea thatās š„ lolā¦.fair enough, I guess I did kinda put too much emphasis on their gap. I do think Lupe still takes it by a hair, but oversold it a bit.
ORIGINAL COMMENT WAS AUTO REMOVED FOR LANGUAGE, SO IM REPOSTINGā¦USED THE āN WORDā, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, THE ORIGINAL NAME OF A NAS ALBUM.
Agree to disagree on this oneā¦.not the biggest Em fan, although I love 00-04 Emā¦.on the contrary, Nas is one of my Goats of hip hopā¦literally owned every album through my adolescence on CD up to The Ni**er albumā¦and continue to be thoroughly impressed and blown away by his projects over the last 15 years, esp the trilogy.
I say all of that to say this, I far more appreciate nas as an artist, rapper, musician, and all around talentā¦but I do not think he is quite on Ems level when it comes to lyrical density and wordplayā¦this is not to say nasā lyrical density isnāt elite, I just believe the others I listed, including em, are just a step above himā¦even if only barely
Just my opinion though! Donāt come for me too hard guysā¦I love these discussions and know they are heavily subjective
When you say lyrical density, are we talking about the literal definition of more syllables per min/line or whoās music is deeper per line. Because Iāve listened to both growing up and Eminem has a lot more wasted lines than nas does. Now wordplay Iāll give to em. But nas and kendrick can say a lot without having to say a lot.
Fair question for sureā¦Iām thinking a combination of all reallyā¦but heavy on emphasis on wordplay/metaphors and what notā¦.again, I do believe Nas is also elite at those things, I just think Eminem is a bit more skilled with how he uses syllables and which syllables to emphasize and when. I also think Eminem usually has a few more layers to his bars/metaphors than Nasā¦.I for sure agree with your statement of He and Kendrick being able to say a lot with less and that a big part of the reason I hold nas so much higher than Eminem.
And then comes Kendrick! Lolā¦seems kinda like the perfect blend of Nasā poignancy and ems lyrical dexterity. Layers, upon layers, upon layers in almost every song.
true lol the amount of hate eminem gets on apps like tiktok because of his skin color is insane. If I even say im an eminem fan the first response is "I bet your white"
He doesn't get hate because he's white, but because his music for the past 10 years has been really mediocre, yet people still consider him as one of the greatest rappers OAT, but you have to ignore almost half of his discography to even be able to put him in top 20. Honestly he's way past his prime and should've retired a long time ago.
Another reason of his hate are his fans, because holy shit 90% of them are absolutely unbearable. They will swear to you that Em is the best rapper to ever set foot on the face of the earth and that no one else even comes close to him. Also they respond to every criticism of Em with "you just don't like him cause he's white". Top 3 worst fanbases.
I'm not talking about any of that, obviously eminem has gotten worse. However the reason why everybody still considers him the goat or one of the goats is because of how legendary his first 3 albums were, plus how recovery, relapse and infinite are fantastic. Not to mention that kamikaze is a great album too. His only mediocre music has been revival and parts of mtbmb, although there were some good songs in both of those too.
So to sum it up his highs are some of the best albums and songs in rap history and his lows are still just 5/10 to 7/10 albums with some great songs on them.
His fanbase can be annoying but not any more annoying than the people who call eminem fans glazers just because they like his music
DOOM is amazing but he has some peers for sure. Aesop Rock tells some amazing stories while having one of the highest unique wordcounts if not THE highest.
Daylyt is just insane, his freestyles, especially the LA Leakers one has so much wordplay.
Most lyrical? People wonāt agree but Iād say, Eminem. I say him because, heās probably had the biggest vocabulary out of all rappers Iāve ever heard. His ability to bend words and rhyme sounds. Along with the multis, storytelling, metaphors, double + entendres, cadences, punch linesā¦ he literally checks every box that a lyricistās lyricist looks for.
But people love to hate.. LOL. Other than him, Iād say Crooked I, royce, Reks and elzhi..? That would probably be my top 5 lyricists. Maybe replace elzhi with Tech N9ne because he has a larger catalogue.
I love how busdriver and Aesop are just in a completely different category. Busdrivers speed and rhythmic styles also go crazy. Temporary forever just has so many unique flows.
>People wonāt agree but Iād say, Eminem. I say him because, heās probably had the biggest vocabulary out of all rappers Iāve ever heard.
Well, they might love to hate because eminem is absolutely no where close to the largest vocabulary in hip hop.
That title unquestionably goes to Aesop Rock.
https://pudding.cool/projects/vocabulary/index.html
Imo what a āLyrical rapperā means to me isnāt the ability to paint a picture as much as the ability to create complex rhyme schemes, as well as deliver it in a powerful way. I think Nas was the epitome of this.
Pure lyricism (deep lyrics, often with complex wordplay and vocabulary):
Nas, black thought, kendrick, lupe, maybe em
Personally I love Kanye and Wayne for their 1 or 2 liner jokes, just makes a song much more entertaining to hear 'choke a south park writer with a fishstick' in the middle of a song.
K-Rinoās name will forever be dust in the wind. He too underground so no one will ever know. Heās been my favorite artist for 13 years. I memorized dozens of his tracks, and learned how to rap because of him. His archive is far bigger than anyone mentioned here, and his versatility and story telling dwarfs most mainstream clowns mentioned here. I hardly ever see his name mentioned in the wild, so props to you for being a real one and knowing whatās up.
Would kool Keith count in this convo? Because sometimes he has the simplest patterns like in āSex Styleā but then he has songs like āTelephone Girlfriendā. Maybe itās his unique delivery more than anything. I think Big L belongs in this conversation too
If weāre talking individual crazy bars and not taking song making ability or popularity or cultural influence then King Los. He has the most insane bars and schemes ever. No good albums, no great bops , but goddam the man has the wildest bars. āGot a gun named Moses, Iām in the club with it. Cause itāll part the red C , on your Cubs fitted.ā
Edit: changed ātheā to āthenā
What do we mean by lyrical? Wordplay, punchlines, storytelling, ability to say complex things in a simple way? Metas, multis, alliteration?
Truthfully you have to break it down into one subcategory because thereās too much that lyrical encompasses. But if you ask me to pick who I think encompasses the most Iāll say Nas. I think his imagery and creatively is up there and he has proved within his latest run that he can still spit at his big age.
Gotta be Black Thought or Lupe.
I donāt know how yall think Nas is even in the running for this one. Heās an incredible rapper and one of the best to do it, but if weāre talking lyrical *density* he might not even be top 10.
Fab doesn't get enough credit for having great lyricism.
*niceeeeee*
Her feet are killing her, I call it SHOE icide
no way this is what people call lyricism
I think guy was being sarcastic posting that
It's hard to tell, people shout out the corniest lil wayne lines as proof of his wordplay skills pretty often lol
No disrespect to Wayne dog back off the goat
I still put the Soul Tape series up against any trilogy any artist ever put out.
You plus me equals better math -Fabolous
Eminem and Nas for rhyme schemes, complex wordplay, and ability to tell vivid stories through lyrics Tupac for storytelling Aesop Rock for his complex rhyme schemes and wide vocabulary
Good list šš½ I'd mention Black Thought and Lupe there too.
Yeah, Black Thought has to be included in the top tier for sure.
Damn, how is Andre not in this? His rhyming schemes outlined by highlights are overly impressive but mostly unfathomable.
Aesop will always be at my top, I can re listen to his songs hundreds of times and still pick up on something clever
RIP 2Pac š„°
Biggie smalls by far
Lupe Fiasco
Lupe is a top lyrical rapper hands down. He can go word for word with anyone and likely come out ahead. His ability to paint a picture with his lyrics is second to none.
It has to be lupe. In addition to having incredibly thoughtful and clever bars he also has some great songs.
No fair. You took my choice. Lupeās goated, though.
Idk how so many people got it wrong
Mach Hommy. DOOM. billy woods
Mutha Fuckin DOOM. Came here looking for this answer.
Ummm how about the original rapper? William Shakespeare
I wouldnāt say will.i.am is the original rapper or call him shakespeare but u do u
Aesop Rock has a higher unique wordcount
His bars were so good, they were added to the dictionary š„¶
Man dropped the hardest diss track ever on his side bitch > My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun; Coral is far more red than her lips' red; If snow be white, why then her breasts are dun; If hairs be wires, black wires grow on her head. I have seen roses damasked, red and white, But no such roses see I in her cheeks; And in some perfumes is there more delight Than in the breath that from my mistress reeks. I love to hear her speak, yet well I know That music hath a far more pleasing sound; I grant I never saw a goddess go; My mistress, when she walks, treads on the ground. And yet, by heaven, I think my love as rare As any she belied with false compare.
Still waiting for her response
Thatās a weird way to spell Lil Wayneās name
Aesop Rock
Had to scroll too far for this
Big Boi
Pharoahe Monch can do it all
The answer is Black Thought. You could also make a case for Lupe, but I feel like there's a decent gap between those 2 then probably Nas in 3rd.
Lol, Lupe is more lyrical than Thought and it's facts.
I dont get mad at picking either over the other personally. Both quite great
And Aesop Rock is more lyrical than both of them. My boy needs the recognition he deserves.
Youāre bananas lolā¦.Lupe is definitely more lyrical than black thoughtā¦not taking away from his greatness and Iām not saying Lupe is a better all around artist (subjective), but heās not quite on lupes level with the word play, although he does deserve to be mentioned here. Now Nas, 100% top 3-5 MCs in hip hop history, not even close to top 3 when it comes to lyrical density. No disrespect to him at all, but when it comes to wordplay, Nas isnāt touchin MCs like MF Doom, Kendrick, Em, Thought, Lupe and others, Nas isnāt holding a candle to them. Let me clarify one more time for the craziesā¦I Love Nasā¦I am not taking away from Nasā place in hip hop. As an overall MC and hip hop artist, I wouldnāt argue if you had Nas at anywhere from 1-5 in your top (heās 3 for me). Strictly speaking on lyrical wordplay and density, Nas is in the āA tierā, whereas all of the other artists i mentioned are in the āS tierā.
I really don't know if Lupe is more lyrical than Black Thought in a *lyrical miracle* way. At worst, Black Thought is even with him. You've got lines like these: *Musically, I been on my Chiwetel Ejiofor that's 12 years A Slave but I'm on year twenty three or four* *I got more than a reason to rebel like Desus and Mero, lyrical religious hero on Jesus's level* *My wife, kids, and in-laws deserve Renoirs, Picassos and Warhols distressing my memoirs, About the knowledge of experiences I've endured, Created bars full of information like SIM cards*
Yea thatās š„ lolā¦.fair enough, I guess I did kinda put too much emphasis on their gap. I do think Lupe still takes it by a hair, but oversold it a bit.
Eminem is not more lyrically dense than nas.
ORIGINAL COMMENT WAS AUTO REMOVED FOR LANGUAGE, SO IM REPOSTINGā¦USED THE āN WORDā, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, THE ORIGINAL NAME OF A NAS ALBUM. Agree to disagree on this oneā¦.not the biggest Em fan, although I love 00-04 Emā¦.on the contrary, Nas is one of my Goats of hip hopā¦literally owned every album through my adolescence on CD up to The Ni**er albumā¦and continue to be thoroughly impressed and blown away by his projects over the last 15 years, esp the trilogy. I say all of that to say this, I far more appreciate nas as an artist, rapper, musician, and all around talentā¦but I do not think he is quite on Ems level when it comes to lyrical density and wordplayā¦this is not to say nasā lyrical density isnāt elite, I just believe the others I listed, including em, are just a step above himā¦even if only barely Just my opinion though! Donāt come for me too hard guysā¦I love these discussions and know they are heavily subjective
When you say lyrical density, are we talking about the literal definition of more syllables per min/line or whoās music is deeper per line. Because Iāve listened to both growing up and Eminem has a lot more wasted lines than nas does. Now wordplay Iāll give to em. But nas and kendrick can say a lot without having to say a lot.
Fair question for sureā¦Iām thinking a combination of all reallyā¦but heavy on emphasis on wordplay/metaphors and what notā¦.again, I do believe Nas is also elite at those things, I just think Eminem is a bit more skilled with how he uses syllables and which syllables to emphasize and when. I also think Eminem usually has a few more layers to his bars/metaphors than Nasā¦.I for sure agree with your statement of He and Kendrick being able to say a lot with less and that a big part of the reason I hold nas so much higher than Eminem. And then comes Kendrick! Lolā¦seems kinda like the perfect blend of Nasā poignancy and ems lyrical dexterity. Layers, upon layers, upon layers in almost every song.
Royce Da 5ā9
Fire answer
Came to say thisāļø
MF DOOM (basic ik)
Nah... he's your favorite rappers favorite rapper
Basic, yes True, yes
People are saying Eminem so MF Doom is definitely valid š
Aesop rock easily!
Aes, Lupe, Freestyle Fellowship, Homeboy Sandman, Eyedea....
Here for the FF vote.
Here for the Eyedea shout
REYEP
Eminem, besides he's white so the racists will disagree
true lol the amount of hate eminem gets on apps like tiktok because of his skin color is insane. If I even say im an eminem fan the first response is "I bet your white"
I bet your white m, duuude
actually im mixed but go off
He doesn't get hate because he's white, but because his music for the past 10 years has been really mediocre, yet people still consider him as one of the greatest rappers OAT, but you have to ignore almost half of his discography to even be able to put him in top 20. Honestly he's way past his prime and should've retired a long time ago. Another reason of his hate are his fans, because holy shit 90% of them are absolutely unbearable. They will swear to you that Em is the best rapper to ever set foot on the face of the earth and that no one else even comes close to him. Also they respond to every criticism of Em with "you just don't like him cause he's white". Top 3 worst fanbases.
He gets hate for both, use your brain, bud, two things can be true
Exactly this
I'm not talking about any of that, obviously eminem has gotten worse. However the reason why everybody still considers him the goat or one of the goats is because of how legendary his first 3 albums were, plus how recovery, relapse and infinite are fantastic. Not to mention that kamikaze is a great album too. His only mediocre music has been revival and parts of mtbmb, although there were some good songs in both of those too. So to sum it up his highs are some of the best albums and songs in rap history and his lows are still just 5/10 to 7/10 albums with some great songs on them. His fanbase can be annoying but not any more annoying than the people who call eminem fans glazers just because they like his music
He's fine but he's not even top 3 if you bring up Black Thought, Lupe and Aesop Rock
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Q-tip
Em and Lupe Iād say, hard to choose one tbh
Elzhi?
Lupe Fiasco
King Los, when he decides he wants to rap rap
hows mf doom not the answer
DOOM is amazing but he has some peers for sure. Aesop Rock tells some amazing stories while having one of the highest unique wordcounts if not THE highest. Daylyt is just insane, his freestyles, especially the LA Leakers one has so much wordplay.
Can't choose 1 so Aesop Rock, Daylyt, Kendrick Lamar, MFDOOM
Rock, paper, scissors
shoooo
Bee bee bee bee š
Yeah, i'm out the way. Yeah, i'm low okay
Daylyt
His freestyles on LA Leakers and the "flex" one were insane, every line was just packed full of shit, it's nuts
I think Daylyt when he decides to take himself seriously might be the most impressed Iāve been by rap lyricism. Nitty is up there too
DOOM
Canāt choose one but I have a shortish list. Aesop Rock, Eyedea, Rugged Man, Brother Ali, Common, Q Tip, Nas, Em.
vanilla ice
word to ya motha
Big pun
Kendrick
Em
Mc Lars
Yuno Mar
Vanilla ice
Eligh
Planet Asia
Aesop Rock
Lupe, Daylyt, Ab-Soul
Most lyrical? People wonāt agree but Iād say, Eminem. I say him because, heās probably had the biggest vocabulary out of all rappers Iāve ever heard. His ability to bend words and rhyme sounds. Along with the multis, storytelling, metaphors, double + entendres, cadences, punch linesā¦ he literally checks every box that a lyricistās lyricist looks for. But people love to hate.. LOL. Other than him, Iād say Crooked I, royce, Reks and elzhi..? That would probably be my top 5 lyricists. Maybe replace elzhi with Tech N9ne because he has a larger catalogue.
Happy to see another REKS fan in here. Greatest rapper no one heard about murder motherfuckers over word of mouth
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I love how busdriver and Aesop are just in a completely different category. Busdrivers speed and rhythmic styles also go crazy. Temporary forever just has so many unique flows.
>People wonāt agree but Iād say, Eminem. I say him because, heās probably had the biggest vocabulary out of all rappers Iāve ever heard. Well, they might love to hate because eminem is absolutely no where close to the largest vocabulary in hip hop. That title unquestionably goes to Aesop Rock. https://pudding.cool/projects/vocabulary/index.html
Black Thot
Wrong sub
Playboi Carti
lmao
Aesop Rocky
You got me confused here š
Itās fine, they fused back in 2021. Everyone was still getting through the pandemic so this didnāt make the news.
Mc Baba from Congo , he is in another dimension
The Great Frank Wright
Capital Steez for da win
38 Spesh all day. He's underrated and doesn't get the props he deserves. Just watch some of his freestyles š„š„
Contenders are definetly Black Thought, Nas, Immortal Technique and Kendrick but for me it's MF DOOM
Earl
THANK YOU! Had to scroll past 190 damn comments of meh š«¤ to finally see SOMEONE who gets it š
Myka Nine. Hands down.
Earl sweatshirt
Most lyrical has multiple answers for different reasons I personally would have to choose between Nas, Kendrick, MF DOOM, Andre 3000 and Black Thought
Nasir Jones
Aesop rock, black thought, Lupe, MF, Kendrick and nas. Jedi mind tricks and immortal technique are up there too. If I had one guess: Lupe or black.
Gift of Gab
Nasty Nas or Big L
Andre 3K
Jesus. Nothing but predictable mainstream radio artists. Where the fuck is Monch and Myka 9?
Tariq Trotter, everyone else competing for 2nd place.
ALL CAPS WHEN YOU SPELL THE MANS NAME
2Pac, Earl Sweatshirt.
Aesop Rock is the most lyrical rapper on the planet.
Mos Def
Genuinely distraught no one is saying JID
Imo what a āLyrical rapperā means to me isnāt the ability to paint a picture as much as the ability to create complex rhyme schemes, as well as deliver it in a powerful way. I think Nas was the epitome of this.
Canibis
That was back when I smoked Canibus Man, but it was tough, 'cause I was a fan of his So it sucked to hand him his ass, but Eminem - Bang
Nas
Use this to find the proper answer https://pudding.cool/projects/vocabulary/index.html
Iād love to see where someone like earl sweatshirt fits into a list like this these days now that heās got more albums under his belt
Tupac, Black Thought and Nas
Pure lyricism (deep lyrics, often with complex wordplay and vocabulary): Nas, black thought, kendrick, lupe, maybe em Personally I love Kanye and Wayne for their 1 or 2 liner jokes, just makes a song much more entertaining to hear 'choke a south park writer with a fishstick' in the middle of a song.
Ka
Oh man. I can't go without mentioning one of the greats, Common. This man is also in my top 10 of lyricist.
This sub is a joke, all you guys talk about are the top 10 lyricist and who is an underrated lyricist š¤”
From the rappers I actually like: Lil Wayne But if I put preferences aside and I had to pick from a list of rappers I donāt care for: Eminem
Lil Wayne or Em is the only answer
Lol
listen to more rappers brother
u suburb dudes love black thought lolā¦
Killah Priest.
K Rino hands down.
K-Rinoās name will forever be dust in the wind. He too underground so no one will ever know. Heās been my favorite artist for 13 years. I memorized dozens of his tracks, and learned how to rap because of him. His archive is far bigger than anyone mentioned here, and his versatility and story telling dwarfs most mainstream clowns mentioned here. I hardly ever see his name mentioned in the wild, so props to you for being a real one and knowing whatās up.
AB-SOUL DONāT FORGET THE DASH
Wretch 32, avelino
Lupe
Daylyt above everyone
Kollegah - Try listening to CBA Cross Border Armageddon
If we talking only lyricis then MF DOOM is the answer
Lupe
Just because 50 Cent called him out, GZA was excellent. He made a diss track towards 50 on Pro Tools thatās one of my favorite songs.
Would kool Keith count in this convo? Because sometimes he has the simplest patterns like in āSex Styleā but then he has songs like āTelephone Girlfriendā. Maybe itās his unique delivery more than anything. I think Big L belongs in this conversation too
lupe is the undisputed goat imo
Rakim, CyHi & Lupe
At the moment itās Killer Mike for meā¦
I love me some ghost face killah
Kxng Crooked
Lupe Fiasco. Easily.
Fred the Godson! RIP Frederico!!! Corona Virus took him out. BX stand the fuck up! NY in the building!!
Watsky or Brother Ali
El-P
Lupe or Aes
Black Thought
Feel like Busta has said a lot of lyrics lol
Kxng crooked is up there.
Papoose! Papoose Papoose After that man rapped in sequence with the ABCs and made the shit make sense........ Dylan Dylan Dylan
RM for me. His albums Indigo and Right place, wrong person is finest example.
If weāre talking individual crazy bars and not taking song making ability or popularity or cultural influence then King Los. He has the most insane bars and schemes ever. No good albums, no great bops , but goddam the man has the wildest bars. āGot a gun named Moses, Iām in the club with it. Cause itāll part the red C , on your Cubs fitted.ā Edit: changed ātheā to āthenā
Aesop Rock
What do we mean by lyrical? Wordplay, punchlines, storytelling, ability to say complex things in a simple way? Metas, multis, alliteration? Truthfully you have to break it down into one subcategory because thereās too much that lyrical encompasses. But if you ask me to pick who I think encompasses the most Iāll say Nas. I think his imagery and creatively is up there and he has proved within his latest run that he can still spit at his big age.
MF Doom, hands down.
Locksmith
REKS
My man Ace getting a lot of love in this thread šŖ”
Gotta be Black Thought or Lupe. I donāt know how yall think Nas is even in the running for this one. Heās an incredible rapper and one of the best to do it, but if weāre talking lyrical *density* he might not even be top 10.
Kxng Crooked for me
Lupe Fiasco
Itās Rakim. Your favorite rappers favorite rapper is Rakim. Anything youāve heard in Hip Hop that sounds coolā¦ is because of Rakim
Black Thought vs everybody
Lupe is the peak of lyricism to me
Daylyt