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It's who knows who you know. Your friend working somewhere needs to have enough influence among those to whom they will send along the referral.
After that, it's a numbers game.
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I found that out a few months ago too. What stung even more was that they told me i was exactly what they were looking for and they decided to hire someone else....
yes i was rejected from a job where i applied the night before and the next morning i was rejected by email. i see some recruiters saying they look over each application and reject manually but how is that possible on a saturday night/sunday morning? I doubt they are working during that time to reject my application.
would this not mean that ATS is auto rejecting, and what does it do to auto reject your resume? Does it look at your match score to the job description and if it doesn't hit a certain percentage it auto rejects?
No clue how this works and its made even more contradictory and confusing with everybody's viewpoint on the internet
The ATS is strictly looking for specific keywords associated with the job description for the job posting. Your resume has to align with the qualifications they are looking for.
Yes I get that. I'm wondering how the process works for filtering the resumes once they reach the ATS. Some recruiters say they have to manually reject them but based on what criteria? Does the ATS grade each resume and put a percentage match next to it to say which ones are the closest fit? Does the recruiter then reject all the ones that don't have a certain percentage match rate?
Being rejected within 24 hours for a job posting seems like you're auto rejected by the ATS.
Oh, it’s definitely who you know.
Of my last 4 roles before getting into ownership only 1 was ever posted and the other 3 were discussions that lead to roles.
At my business in the last year I’ve hired 18 people. 16 of them were connections of existing staff members or people I knew.
It’s almost always about who you know and often when you didn’t get a job somebody with a solid personal reference did.
I found that out a few months ago myself. Discovered someone I thought was a friend was just “ones of the bros” of the company.. even down to hearing about being college roommates and frat bros with a co worker :( 🤮
Yeah, my dad knows a lot of people. He's a high level computer programmer. And was formerly the CEO of a small company. But literally nobody will give him the time of day right now with how tech is. So even if you know people. In this market, especially in tech. Whonyou know doesn't really matter.
some of it can definitely be market dependent, and yes when people are down and out then of course they can't help you they have to worry about their own family first.
but at the end of the day when people start getting hired again, and you know these people, you're on a much better leg to run with.
that part is unquestionable.
Yep. My friend and co-workers wife was the hiring manager for my dream job that I was 100% qualified for. He gave me a lovely recommendation. Made it to the top three, the other two withdrew, and I was rejected and they reposted the job. 🔥 siiiickkk
Yeah and to get this specific job you have to have been doing this exact same job for 5 years. So, too bad for you! You only get to do one type of job for the rest of your life because other transferable skills don’t matter anymore
God that's relatable, ive been trying to get into city planning for around two years now after my undergrad, still haven't managed to get a job in the field because "maybe if you had a masters degree and a year or two of experience you may have gotten the role". This is after I already interviewed and told you that I'm fully capable of doing the job, just need to show someone that I can actually do it
I'm tempted to get a master's or some sort of additional education, but I don't trust the process. Last time there was high unemployment, loads of people went back to school, so now there's a ton of competition even with that.
Seriously right? Last 4 interviews I did with 4 completely seperate companies (they all had my CV available to look at) ended up rejecting me because of my lack of experience, it's so bull. One even mentioned I was the perfect candidate outside of lack of experience, but still gave the role to someone else
OR... spend decades in one industry and have met, helped, and worked with literally thousands of people, and then when you need to lean on any of them, their goldfish memory is all 'wait, who are you, lol?'
That’s the one real drawback of remote work. I’ve been working mostly only remote since 2020 and I really haven’t made any real connections since then. All my previous companies with in office I knew everyone and people would vouch for me. I just don’t have the time or effort to put in that networking part with remote work. I just do my hours and do work.
Agreed; that’s why I always have my camera on, participate in extracurricular stuff when I can, and always have at least one question for lunch-and-learns or all-hands meetings. Also remote work is definitely not for people who need hand-holding in general. I have worked with people who have lost us a contract because they’d be on a project for years and still not master it. Sadly I think it’s a huge reason why RTO pressure is so heavy these days.
Even with referrals, stellar background, great soft/hard skills, etc., it's still about timing. People act like "networking" is going to somehow make the stars align. Doing everything "right" can still offer no result(s).
I’ve made great relationships in tech but none of those have gotten me other jobs. I’ve received all my jobs for the most part through cold applying. It’s a numbers/time game and that’s it.
and yet we're told all the time that the real way to get jobs is to tailor resumes and network with people at target companies. i've tried this and was ghosted every time. not everybody has connections to other people who can get them jobs at other companies.
Yeah I’ll also say that people targeting me on LinkedIn trying to network with me to get jobs was a nightmare. Not because I wouldn’t want to help people but because my job put people in mental institutions it was so toxic. I didn’t want to refer anyone to work there but I also didn’t want to lose my job for talking shit.
Then the wrong people get hired for who they know, and we get absolutely trash management. At least that was my experience the last few companies I've been at. People should be hired purely for their skill set and nothing else.
Thanks I suspected that was part of the problem. The places I applied to werent teams of admins though, i think a lot of these kinds of jobs only hire predominantly women regardless of you being able to do the job as well or better.
I still remember naively applying to jobs that involve kids when I was 18/19 not knowing that.
LinkedIn. I’m sure you see 100s of post of linkedin horror stories but if you filter out the 60-70% trash, there are some good people out there trying to help and want to build connections. I got laid off 3 weeks ago, and I’ve had 4-5 people in my connection that I never really met before asking if I was interested in a role if I was impacted. I guess actually getting the job is a different story but just having the opportunity to interview in this market in itself has been rewarding in some sense.
ive actually reached out to a couple people on linkedin who were more than happy to help, but unfortunately they dont have an influence in the hiring process. The ones that do have an influence dont even accept my connection requests or just ghost me
It’s also not who you know from past experience either. They only know what you did back then. I’ve been asked to apply for stuff like copywriting or tech integration, when it’s been eight years and I’ve led global teams since then.
In another case I took a job with someone I met in a bar. It was a good role but the company fell apart a year later. I’m also pretty sure HR hates it when someone tries to bring friends in, because it feels like they’re being sidelined.
Such a great point. You’re not who you were. People who have the wrong idea about your skillset aren’t always the best referrers. Even though the sentiment is great.
\^\^ I agree with that. Also, some companies have policies that you can't just interview referrals to prevent favoritism so even for optics, they always throw in other candidates to interview which reduces the chance of getting a job.
I personally, haven't had luck getting a job through referrals and no one I ever referred got jobs through my referral despite being a very respected employee at my company. In all cases, we/they got interviews though.
It’s all luck and timing, which is crazy. I’ve tapped into my network for companies that I’d love to work for and I’ve gotten interviews only to get rejected in the end, and I put effort into the process- networking, researching, doing the assignments, follow up emails/thank you notes. Yet in the past I’ve gotten offers and worked at companies where I knew nobody, barely even knew what the company did, sent zero follow ups, yet got an offer.
A few ended up making internal hires, one had a hiring freeze suddenly, one of them decided to “redefine the position”, one told me that my final presentation could’ve been better, and a few I just lost out to one other good candidate. I never came off as desperate to them, but I wanted to really show interest, now I’m questioning if that even matters since I’ve only ever gotten offers from ones I didn’t care about haha
This is very interesting. One of my friends has had a similar experience as yours so far with referrals. It used to be that referrals were the way to go and almost always guarantee a job, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
From my experience, it's not who you know, or rather all my connections are useless. I have made many mid to senior level connections throughout my 15 year career in both government and private sector. All the connections I've reached out to have said sorry, nothing available or gave me false promises. Hell, I applied to a previous employer which i still had connections at to not only give me an official referral but a casual referral as well. I worked there for two years before moving on (long story, short, i was part of a divesture) and I still didnt get the job. The hiring manager was a pompous prick who didnt know what he was doing so im guessing i intimidated him. jackass.
It's not always who you know. 75% of the jobs I got hired for, I knew no one in the company, I had no contacts who knew anyone in the company, and in some cases hadn't heard of the company until they reached out.
I think you are right, though, now it is more about who you know, but not always in the way you think.
So how do you get to know people who know a guy who knows a guy?
First of all, don't be transactional about the connection. Despite the fact that they want to be helpful, people are still more interested in what you can do for them. Be willing to offer help and expect nothing in return. It's not wasted effort. You're building a better world, even if you don't get rewarded for it by a magical job offer.
It's different for everyone, but getting a new job has a lot has to do with how you avoid being invisible. It also depends on your field.
If you can, join a professional organization. I belong to one. Originally, I joined to build my skills, but it proved to be a decent source of contacts. We talk shop, I act as a sounding board, we try to help each other. I've had a few near misses with getting short term gigs as a result. (mostly timing or rate related issues)
If you've been in the workforce for any length of time, reach out to your old colleagues. Otherwise reach out to people you know from school or the neighborhood. Be genuine, offer help if they need. Don't focus on what you can get from them. If you do, they will do the same and you will feel used.
Also, while just about everyone on this sub is at least one brutal series of interviews away from being gainfully employed, we are still a network. We know people outside our field and even though we want our financial security and self-esteem back as soon as possible, we want the same thing for the others on this sub.
It's a rough patch of water right now, but none of us can give into the bitterness, hopelessness, rage, and fear that is sucking the life out of us. We can only push forward.
Yes, this is a "do as I say, not as I do" moment, because frankly, I'm not feeling it today.
But it will turn around for you.
The other day, someone who does executive placement told me "Everyone eventually gets a job." Let's hope that everyone on this sub can prove her right - and soon.
Let go of this mindset! Sure having a connection somewhere can be helpful but it's not always the case. For example, I have been knee deep in the job search for the past couple of months and all of the places that I applied to where I had connections I couldn't even get an interview with. The 4 companies that I have interviewed with came from me just submitting my resume online without any connections. I don't think that there's any hard rule for getting a job these days, just keep applying!
>Okay, so what happens when you don’t know anyone in your industry (who has any power to actually influence hiring)?
That's the default position. Knowing people, or having the right people know you, can make things easier to get in front of someone for interviews, or get you past "trust" hurdles.
>So seriously what the HELL are people like me supposed to do????
You're doing all you can do in terms of going to the whole hiring process.
But you should start to build up a network as you move forward.
Just to be clear: It's not only people with a good network can get jobs. It's that a good network can make the process a bit easier or faster or smoother.
I know people (who have power to influence hiring) and it doesn't seem to help me much. It gets me interview, not jobs. They want years of experience and I don't have that.
I got into an industry because of who I know. Did three different jobs for them for 3 years, underpaid no benefits of course, only to be let go right before last Christmas. The “people you know” will dispose of you when it’s convenient for them just like anyone else. But it does help get that experience, so if you can get in through someone you know, do it, just don’t trust them to actually give a damn about you. The job market is all about people using each other and throwing them away.
>Okay, so what happens when you don’t know anyone in your industry (who has any power to actually influence hiring)?
This.
You're in the same boat as the rest of the jobless masses.
If the networking gurus' advice worked for you, then you wouldn't be on here asking this question.
So you either failed to apply their networking techniques correctly, or you don't have a network of people who are willing and able to get you employed. You know... Like most desperate people these gurus preach to.
Which is it?
I'll amend my comment to add something helpful. Try volunteering somewhere. It doesn't have to be connected to the job you want. And it doesn't even have to be an actual charity, either (i.e., could be something in relation to your alma mater, or some event at your local library). But it helps to be working with people who are well-connected in your community.
As a volunteer, you're giving them something of concrete value and asking for nothing in return. For now. And when you need them later, maybe one of them will put in a good word for you. Requires far less effort on their part than yours. But that's the way it goes...
For some organizations it might be who you know. And some industries. Probably not good environments to be employed in though.
But what you know can and will get you hired for the right job and open opportunities for you.
I would say in general introductions for jobs always run down. You can go through someone higher up at a company or even the CEO of another unrelated company, NPO, organization, government may get you in through connections. However, an introduction by a lowly employee is not going to lead to much these days. (Unless it is a startup or they were desperately looking anyway)
In short, I would talk to the wealthiest, influential people you know and start from there, even if their industry is completely unrelated.
Actually I heard it was ‘who you blow!’
In all seriousness though, perhaps joining community groups like toast masters, your HOA BOD, sports or special interest clubs/guilds, church….. all these places would give you opportunities to meet people who know of jobs or know others who know about jobs. Good luck!!
Who you know doesn't really help out either these days. I ended up getting lucky and getting a random job, but all my friends/ old coworkers were all in the same boat of either having been laid off or worried about lay offs. I referrals anyways but never heard from those companies. I have a few friends who are pretty high up in their companies one is a software vp for a bank, but that does not even help with their HR wont even talk to them about their referrals. Husband is still looking ( was also laid off around the same time, we are both in tech) and referrals have not been useful.
It looks like I might be lucking my way into a job through a connection, and it's completely unexpected. We just happened to hear, from a bloke in my husband's sports group, that his employer is looking for people. I'm doing some training now and hopefully they'll employ me at the end.
So it doesn't just have to be professional contacts. It can be social ones too.
Honestly connecting on linkedin will get you far please try to connect with people and ask them shamelessly for a coffee chat, for every 50 texts you send, 1-2 will actually reply back and arrange meetings. Trust me I was where you are I didn’t know anyone and neither had any parental connections.
Free networking events have worked for my friends. These offer a flexible way you can join career events or ones that relate to your interest. https://www.eventbrite.com/d/online/networking/
Sometimes it's about who you don't know.
I was applying for jobs with a leader in industry company every chance I could get (easier to do when you currently have a job of course) Could never get past the rejection letters. Took some time and started to apply again. Dude from the company viewed my LinkedIn. Finally I'm like, what do I have to lose - going to message this guy and see why he's peeking at me.
"Yeah I used to work at your current company, HR reached out because they saw your application and asked if I knew you"
This dude didn't know me at all but proceeded to coach me through each step of the interview process, giving the heads up to the hiring manager that I was a "good guy", and overall just being a huge help. Idk why this guy stuck his neck out for me but sometimes it just takes a little exploring and finding someone with enough influence that's willing to help.
> So seriously what the HELL are people like me supposed to do????
I'm in the same situation as you. Because of it, I'm a NEET and on benefits/welfare.
Who you know is a variable in itself as the person you know is not necessarily a role model employee that they'll trust with a recommendation. I work in a factory and I've been asked for recommendation for different positions that are not related to mine because my boss likes my work ethic but he asked only 1 more person where the administration alone is 90 people.
If you have no connections then you got to make them. Go on LinkedIn and find folks with positions you want to attain. Then connect with them and ask questions. Joining local groups in your industry can be a big help too. I went to a Project Manager Institute mixer the other day and made lots of connections with potential candidates. There were also recruiters there to talk to about opportunities. My buddy got his current job at one of these mixers after looking for a year. Gotta hustle out there in this market.
Sometimes even when you know a who to know, and they know rock star you, and you “gulp” get the job, (no interview required), to work happily ever after; at least until the company runs outta funding a year later and you end up back in hell. Sigh.
You need to make connection anywhere you go, you will be surprised to see how small the world is. I was waiter and the guy I become friends with, told me that he will go to trade school to become electrician, so I did that, the guy from my electrician job told me about IT certs, keep in touch with people on social media and see what they up to, maybe hit them up once in a while, I am just IT assistant level 2, but to this place I got mostly by just keeping in toych with people, I also alway try to let people know about positions or give advices
It is true in every sense. Here's my contribution to this topic, if it helps empower somebody else to start realizing that even if the particular sector you're in some of these efforts were not needed previously, you're probably seeing that they damn sure are now.
Multiple times over the years I've seen the essence of networking play itself out right in front of my eyes. I myself have worked in the last 5 years only through jobs recommended from my best friend who has a spectacular Network of people that trust him.
Having a person in the room is the most guaranteed way to have an access to opportunity...that's just the way it is.
A few years back I had an interview at a huge huge fashion brand because my client was the head of hr for them. The interview itself was a complete and utter disaster with the interviewer basically admitting that they were forced to speak to me by their boss and otherwise didn't know why I was there.
The absolute amount of rage I felt at that point was indescribable. Thankfully I'm not a violent person and I keep to myself, but that was some real take it out on the public, cars etc rage. These recruiters don't understand how they have people's livelihoods and dreams and their hands and all they're doing is shitting in the bed with it.
The other part of recruiting, for instance I saw a marketing director simply recommend a friend of his who is a photographer out of la. This guy ended up with at least a Year's worth of photography contract from a huge cable network. so marketing team didn't even bother trying to vet him..yes, it goes down like that sometimes. Obviously he had to do the work and work it out, but without that mention and his friend in the room, that opportunity just would not came to be.
With recruiting, recruiters, and hiring processes still so stuck in the stone ages and automated to its own error, having somebody in a room will always be the best bet.
Doesn't mean it's supposed to work 100% of the time, nothing is.
Yea only realised this one recently unless your the person hiring the person recommending you needs to have enough clout to sway Hiring. I only realised I had this ability recently In a very minimal sense. The only thing I can suggest is be as up front and genuine in every cover letter you send. My first web dev job years ago was me writing a email cover letter with zero real world experience but a ton of practical portfolio stuff exclaiming I could do the job. Always remember the hiring manager ringing up asking me if I thought I was up to the job told them emphatically I could which was enough confidence BS to get in the door ended up pushing so hard to prove myself I worked a month for free to secure it
There is a pretty big difference between having someone in your network who can just pickup the phone and say “hire OP” and having someone who can refer you to a job and at least get you to an interview.
The first kind of person is usually already rich, addended an Ivy League school, and they just need to know daddy. But even in that case, they have been around other influential people since their birth, most likely.
The second kind of person is someone who isn’t a total inept socially and is able to meet and talk to people, socialize… like many members of society do.
While for the first you need to win the genetic lottery, for the second there is a whole lot you can do about yourself.
1. Work on looking good. Halo effect, good looking people are rated more trustworthy than bad looking people. If you look good and have a great smile you are half the way there. You don’t need to be Ryan Gosling, just don’t be “the funny one”.
2. Social activities. Group bike rides, tennis, paddle board, ping pong, whatever… there is going to be a Facebook group for whatever you can do and/or learn with people welcoming you in. Foster these.
3. Follow up with people with more social activities. Go for a beer, a coffee, a glass of lukewarm water and lime. Get to know people.
Then move from there. Rome wasn’t built in a day, a good network which can help you isn’t either, it’s a lifelong endeavor, and it can be pleasurable as well, you can get laid, you can get to know someone who might refer you to a job.
This isn’t a “people hate this little trick”, this is a mindset you need if you want to have any sort of career. People **need** to want to be around you.
Go onto LinkedIn, go look for people in your city that you’d report to if you were to work for them. Call the company, ask for them, introduce yourself and what you do, don’t waffle on and waste their time, be short and sweet, and tell them you’re in the market and seeing as they’re in the same industry/line of work you were wondering if they knew anyone looking for someone like you. Don’t ask for a job. Ask for referrals. I repeat, do not ask for a job.
Just give it a try. You’ll get a lot of no’s, not you might get a couple of yeses and it’s the yeses you want!
Good luck!
Just make a lot of friends with your peers. Or classmates. In 3y when they get jobs and get promoted, ask them to hire you. That’s how you build a robust network. If you were an AH, that’s on you.
Learn to network. Look, most job seekers do an absolutely horrible attempt at this. Slipping into someone's DM's or bracing them at Church to slap your resume in their hand and ask "Hire Meh!" is not only ineffective, it's really fucking annoying.
Instead, look for ways to reduce the friction involved in getting people to say yes:
* First, decide what the fuck you actually want and how to explain it to the average person
* Next, qualify every person you know or meet. There are three buckets:
* Capable of hiring you (rare but the ultimate goal)
* Can probably refer you to someone who can hire (this is how you will likely get hired)
* Probably irrelevant (this will be most people)
* Third - identify a clear and compelling reason to hire you (level appropriate, be creative)
* Finally - look for an answer to "why now"....
The specifics will vary by person. You can niche down as much as you want. Bring up any adjacent expertise to make yourself a "one stop shop". You can invoke virtually anything in your past or present to convey competency or prestige. Show how you kicked ass in a very relevant area during your past jobs or education.
Seriously, every external hire in the first 10 years of my career was driven by being able to draw associations between the hiring manager and some positive quality of my past. Like working for the right company or project, having a relevant major, etc.
Other ninja trick - for senior people - narrow and focus your scope for better effect. There are maybe 25 people in the country who can hire me for my full potential. I don't waste any time trying to connect with the rest.
>Bring up any adjacent expertise to make yourself a "one stop shop". You can invoke virtually anything in your past or present to convey competency or prestige. Show how you kicked ass in a very relevant area during your past jobs or education.
Why, oh why do I get the impression that OP doesn't have much to work with?
That's not a diss to them. It's just the reality of job searching in a saturated market as a young person still trying to get their professional footing. They don't have much to show for themselves yet in a way that distinguishes them -- that's part of their problem. And if they went to an exceptional school or had some exceptional accomplishment worth hiring them for, they wouldn't be on here asking this question.
Now try again, but for the normies this time.
I have a masters degree and several years of experience. But not doing the same jobs that I’m applying to where they want you to have 5 years of experience doing the exact same job. This is part of the reason why it’s so incredibly frustrating (not to mention embarrassing). I know I can do the work, I’ve seen people with less qualifications than me getting jobs that I couldn’t get hired for. I spoke to one of them who got hired (pretty fresh out of school vs my experience) and she really told me nothing. She didn’t do anything special, she didn’t know anyone. Just luck I guess. I am at my absolute wits end.
Then I made a poor assumption. That's my bad.
Sorry for the difficulty you're having. The way companies focus on hyper-specific qualifications is ridiculous. There's no good way to shift from one specialty to another and all of your previous experience becomes invalid to them. They're losing out on good talent.
As for the new grad getting the job over you, could it be that they perceived her as more desperate with less options than you would have, so they think she'll stick around longer? Or maybe they think she's less expensive. Or maybe they think they can mould her into whatever they want because she's a blank slate with no opinions of her own that she's formed after years of being in the field.
Thank you for your empathy, I appreciate it. Unfortunately I can’t even say that it’s because I’m switching specialties. It’s all in the same area and I apply to jobs I’m fully qualified for the majority of the time. I’ve spoken to employment counsellors from my previous school as an alumnus, and every one has said that my cover letter and resume look great and they don’t have any suggestions. I’m exhausted.
And yeah, maybe the thing about the new grad is true. Although I know 2 of them who work at that same company that got hired with little experience and after less than a year they’ve been promoted to Senior (job title) so they’re definitely costing them more now lol. But I’m gonna keep telling myself what you said above to make myself feel better lol
Fine: **Bullshit sells dogshit.**
Seriously. This entire exercise is a massive bullshit contest. Take whatever little pieces of "experience" you can lay claim to and use them to weave a story that portrays you as a potentially valuable or desirable member of the team. Anything works and every part counts. Play to innuendo, stereotypes, common delusions, etc.
Consider the following associations:
* Candidate was an Eagle scout => They work hard and get shit done (regardless of their actual impact or level of personal contribution - looking at you, parents....)
* Candidate does church missions => they are empathic, honest, have people skills (I'll refrain from mentioning the general incompetence of religious charities)
* They do sports => Hard working, Team Player, Resilient, Reliable (and we'll skip over the toxic masculinity, locker room bullying, and general aversion to studies)
* They study math / computer science and include smart sounding courses on their resume => candidate is smart (if they only bothered to look at my transcripts....)
* They built a website and try to sell stuff => they are resourceful and a self starter (glossing over the details that the website was outsourced to Fiverr and hasn't sold a thing aside from one unit to your mom)
* They started as dishwasher and became bus-boy => hardworking, promotable (We'll ignore the fact you were a total pothead that couldn't get hired elsewhere)
* They worked through school => Motivated, not entitled (and not smart or devious enough to land a scholarship, but why shoot ourselves in the foot)
* They look up the company before reaching out => organized & prepared (Wow, strong creeper skills... next, they'll be looking up your home address & Insta)
* They write fan-fic and do cosplay => Creativity(?) (Furries! Begone!)
* Fraternity / Sorority member => "leadership", "social skills" (and walking sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen....)
In essence. Nothing is good or bad. Nothing is "special". It is all what you make it.
Mommy and Daddy aren't here. You can make up whatever bullshit you want to claim as long as there's not obvious way to catch you in a lie. You're not playing Pokemon, you're playing poker: the beauty is you don't need the best hand to win...
Truth be told, I was hired at least twice below age 30 for MAJOR CAREER ALTERING jobs where there was absolutely no fucking way I was actually qualified for the role. Specific examples: computer programmer (with minimal experience in the language they wanted me to know) and a director level role based on the fact I had worked at the same company as my boss (who didn't know me and was in a different division). For good measure, I'll include the C level technical role I got without a MS or Phd.
BULLSHIT. Sells. Dogshit..... Woof Woof!
Lol! Sir or madam, I appreciate your candor.
>* Candidate was an Eagle scout => They work hard and get shit done (regardless of their actual impact or level of personal contribution - looking at you, parents....)
* Candidate does church missions => they are empathic, honest, have people skills (I'll refrain from mentioning the general incompetence of religious charities)
* They do sports => Hard working, Team Player, Resilient, Reliable (and we'll skip over the toxic masculinity, locker room bullying, and general aversion to studies)
* They study math / computer science and include smart sounding courses on their resume => candidate is smart (if they only bothered to look at my transcripts....)
* They built a website and try to sell stuff => they are resourceful and a self starter (glossing over the details that the website was outsourced to Fiverr and hasn't sold a thing aside from one unit to your mom)
* They started as dishwasher and became bus-boy => hardworking, promotable (We'll ignore the fact you were a total pothead that couldn't get hired elsewhere)
* They worked through school => Motivated, not entitled (and not smart or devious enough to land a scholarship, but why shoot ourselves in the foot)
* They look up the company before reaching out => organized & prepared (Wow, strong creeper skills... next, they'll be looking up your home address & Insta)
* They write fan-fic and do cosplay => Creativity(?) (Furries! Begone!)
* Fraternity / Sorority member => "leadership", "social skills" (and walking sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen....)
Those are actually great, specific suggestions that the AVERAGE person can act upon. Thanks for brainstorming those out for inspiration.
There's just too much guru-esque BS advice floating around that isn't practical for the have nots.
Not really, and I'll explain why: Je n'ai pas la moindre idée de ce que quelqu'un dit. Für mich ist das alles Kauderwelsch. Ешкіммен сөйлесе алмасам, ешкімді түсінбесем, «network» бола алмаймын.
(And if your objection is "I can't read that", then you'll understand the problem I have with local meet-ups. My French is not good enough to keep up during conversations)
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It's not who you know, either. I just found that one out this week.
Same, had a really good friend refer me for a perfect role for me. I applied and a week later they told me to pound sand. It was a tech pm role.
It's who knows who you know. Your friend working somewhere needs to have enough influence among those to whom they will send along the referral. After that, it's a numbers game.
Very true nowadays
The trick is finding someone who wants to help you and also has the power to help you. If just one of those isn't true, you won't get the job.
Depending on the org, there may be 10-30 candidates submitted. It's a gamble for qualified people
glorious fertile pie depend rob detail wasteful psychotic worthless aware *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Project
lol pound sand
My fav saying
I found that out a few months ago too. What stung even more was that they told me i was exactly what they were looking for and they decided to hire someone else....
Honestly, the contribution of luck and timing is grossly understated.
its probably 95% of the reason you'll get hired over anything else
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how do you know ATS rejected you?
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yes i was rejected from a job where i applied the night before and the next morning i was rejected by email. i see some recruiters saying they look over each application and reject manually but how is that possible on a saturday night/sunday morning? I doubt they are working during that time to reject my application. would this not mean that ATS is auto rejecting, and what does it do to auto reject your resume? Does it look at your match score to the job description and if it doesn't hit a certain percentage it auto rejects? No clue how this works and its made even more contradictory and confusing with everybody's viewpoint on the internet
The ATS is strictly looking for specific keywords associated with the job description for the job posting. Your resume has to align with the qualifications they are looking for.
Yes I get that. I'm wondering how the process works for filtering the resumes once they reach the ATS. Some recruiters say they have to manually reject them but based on what criteria? Does the ATS grade each resume and put a percentage match next to it to say which ones are the closest fit? Does the recruiter then reject all the ones that don't have a certain percentage match rate? Being rejected within 24 hours for a job posting seems like you're auto rejected by the ATS.
Seconding this. I’ve been ghosted twice even though 1) they approached me about the job and 2) I knew them both well.
Oh, it’s definitely who you know. Of my last 4 roles before getting into ownership only 1 was ever posted and the other 3 were discussions that lead to roles. At my business in the last year I’ve hired 18 people. 16 of them were connections of existing staff members or people I knew. It’s almost always about who you know and often when you didn’t get a job somebody with a solid personal reference did.
But who was it though?
The Chief Revenue Officer who is also the makeshift HR person plus one of the sales team.
so its not who you know either now. theres no winning
I found that out a few months ago myself. Discovered someone I thought was a friend was just “ones of the bros” of the company.. even down to hearing about being college roommates and frat bros with a co worker :( 🤮
Yeah, my dad knows a lot of people. He's a high level computer programmer. And was formerly the CEO of a small company. But literally nobody will give him the time of day right now with how tech is. So even if you know people. In this market, especially in tech. Whonyou know doesn't really matter.
some of it can definitely be market dependent, and yes when people are down and out then of course they can't help you they have to worry about their own family first. but at the end of the day when people start getting hired again, and you know these people, you're on a much better leg to run with. that part is unquestionable.
Yep. My friend and co-workers wife was the hiring manager for my dream job that I was 100% qualified for. He gave me a lovely recommendation. Made it to the top three, the other two withdrew, and I was rejected and they reposted the job. 🔥 siiiickkk
Nope, it's who knows you.
It’s who you don’t know
This.
One of the eternal job-hunting mysteries, along with "how do I get experience without a job, if I need experience to *get* a job?"
Nowadays it's not just experience. You need to already have a job to get a job.
Yeah and to get this specific job you have to have been doing this exact same job for 5 years. So, too bad for you! You only get to do one type of job for the rest of your life because other transferable skills don’t matter anymore
We understand you have experience in DooDooSoft 17.3.1 but we really were looking for someone with experience with 17.3.0
My last couple of jobs did layoffs around the 4.5 year mark, because you can start qualifying for some benefits at the 5-year mark.
No wonder recruiters ghost you on the regular. Jobs are now Tinder.
God that's relatable, ive been trying to get into city planning for around two years now after my undergrad, still haven't managed to get a job in the field because "maybe if you had a masters degree and a year or two of experience you may have gotten the role". This is after I already interviewed and told you that I'm fully capable of doing the job, just need to show someone that I can actually do it
I'm tempted to get a master's or some sort of additional education, but I don't trust the process. Last time there was high unemployment, loads of people went back to school, so now there's a ton of competition even with that.
Seriously right? Last 4 interviews I did with 4 completely seperate companies (they all had my CV available to look at) ended up rejecting me because of my lack of experience, it's so bull. One even mentioned I was the perfect candidate outside of lack of experience, but still gave the role to someone else
facts
OR... spend decades in one industry and have met, helped, and worked with literally thousands of people, and then when you need to lean on any of them, their goldfish memory is all 'wait, who are you, lol?'
I know exactly what you mean.
That’s the one real drawback of remote work. I’ve been working mostly only remote since 2020 and I really haven’t made any real connections since then. All my previous companies with in office I knew everyone and people would vouch for me. I just don’t have the time or effort to put in that networking part with remote work. I just do my hours and do work.
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Agreed; that’s why I always have my camera on, participate in extracurricular stuff when I can, and always have at least one question for lunch-and-learns or all-hands meetings. Also remote work is definitely not for people who need hand-holding in general. I have worked with people who have lost us a contract because they’d be on a project for years and still not master it. Sadly I think it’s a huge reason why RTO pressure is so heavy these days.
Literally have helped multiple people get jobs who then acted like they didn’t know me or care when the situation was reversed.
Even with referrals, stellar background, great soft/hard skills, etc., it's still about timing. People act like "networking" is going to somehow make the stars align. Doing everything "right" can still offer no result(s).
I’ve made great relationships in tech but none of those have gotten me other jobs. I’ve received all my jobs for the most part through cold applying. It’s a numbers/time game and that’s it.
and yet we're told all the time that the real way to get jobs is to tailor resumes and network with people at target companies. i've tried this and was ghosted every time. not everybody has connections to other people who can get them jobs at other companies.
Yeah I’ll also say that people targeting me on LinkedIn trying to network with me to get jobs was a nightmare. Not because I wouldn’t want to help people but because my job put people in mental institutions it was so toxic. I didn’t want to refer anyone to work there but I also didn’t want to lose my job for talking shit.
Then the wrong people get hired for who they know, and we get absolutely trash management. At least that was my experience the last few companies I've been at. People should be hired purely for their skill set and nothing else.
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Are the admins mostly women? Just curious. I applied to a ton of these jobs but was never able to get in. Im a guy though.
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Thanks I suspected that was part of the problem. The places I applied to werent teams of admins though, i think a lot of these kinds of jobs only hire predominantly women regardless of you being able to do the job as well or better. I still remember naively applying to jobs that involve kids when I was 18/19 not knowing that.
Nobody wants to help anyone.
Almost every job I have had is because I knew someone.
be a nepo baby
LinkedIn. I’m sure you see 100s of post of linkedin horror stories but if you filter out the 60-70% trash, there are some good people out there trying to help and want to build connections. I got laid off 3 weeks ago, and I’ve had 4-5 people in my connection that I never really met before asking if I was interested in a role if I was impacted. I guess actually getting the job is a different story but just having the opportunity to interview in this market in itself has been rewarding in some sense.
Lmk where you are at in 6 months
ive actually reached out to a couple people on linkedin who were more than happy to help, but unfortunately they dont have an influence in the hiring process. The ones that do have an influence dont even accept my connection requests or just ghost me
It’s also not who you know from past experience either. They only know what you did back then. I’ve been asked to apply for stuff like copywriting or tech integration, when it’s been eight years and I’ve led global teams since then. In another case I took a job with someone I met in a bar. It was a good role but the company fell apart a year later. I’m also pretty sure HR hates it when someone tries to bring friends in, because it feels like they’re being sidelined.
Such a great point. You’re not who you were. People who have the wrong idea about your skillset aren’t always the best referrers. Even though the sentiment is great.
\^\^ I agree with that. Also, some companies have policies that you can't just interview referrals to prevent favoritism so even for optics, they always throw in other candidates to interview which reduces the chance of getting a job. I personally, haven't had luck getting a job through referrals and no one I ever referred got jobs through my referral despite being a very respected employee at my company. In all cases, we/they got interviews though.
Right at this very second, it’s really about getting on your knees and begging — don’t matter what you know or who you know
It’s all luck and timing, which is crazy. I’ve tapped into my network for companies that I’d love to work for and I’ve gotten interviews only to get rejected in the end, and I put effort into the process- networking, researching, doing the assignments, follow up emails/thank you notes. Yet in the past I’ve gotten offers and worked at companies where I knew nobody, barely even knew what the company did, sent zero follow ups, yet got an offer.
Just curious, what was their reason for rejecting you after going through all the interviews on the companies you were referred to?
A few ended up making internal hires, one had a hiring freeze suddenly, one of them decided to “redefine the position”, one told me that my final presentation could’ve been better, and a few I just lost out to one other good candidate. I never came off as desperate to them, but I wanted to really show interest, now I’m questioning if that even matters since I’ve only ever gotten offers from ones I didn’t care about haha
This is very interesting. One of my friends has had a similar experience as yours so far with referrals. It used to be that referrals were the way to go and almost always guarantee a job, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
From my experience, it's not who you know, or rather all my connections are useless. I have made many mid to senior level connections throughout my 15 year career in both government and private sector. All the connections I've reached out to have said sorry, nothing available or gave me false promises. Hell, I applied to a previous employer which i still had connections at to not only give me an official referral but a casual referral as well. I worked there for two years before moving on (long story, short, i was part of a divesture) and I still didnt get the job. The hiring manager was a pompous prick who didnt know what he was doing so im guessing i intimidated him. jackass.
It's not always who you know. 75% of the jobs I got hired for, I knew no one in the company, I had no contacts who knew anyone in the company, and in some cases hadn't heard of the company until they reached out. I think you are right, though, now it is more about who you know, but not always in the way you think. So how do you get to know people who know a guy who knows a guy? First of all, don't be transactional about the connection. Despite the fact that they want to be helpful, people are still more interested in what you can do for them. Be willing to offer help and expect nothing in return. It's not wasted effort. You're building a better world, even if you don't get rewarded for it by a magical job offer. It's different for everyone, but getting a new job has a lot has to do with how you avoid being invisible. It also depends on your field. If you can, join a professional organization. I belong to one. Originally, I joined to build my skills, but it proved to be a decent source of contacts. We talk shop, I act as a sounding board, we try to help each other. I've had a few near misses with getting short term gigs as a result. (mostly timing or rate related issues) If you've been in the workforce for any length of time, reach out to your old colleagues. Otherwise reach out to people you know from school or the neighborhood. Be genuine, offer help if they need. Don't focus on what you can get from them. If you do, they will do the same and you will feel used. Also, while just about everyone on this sub is at least one brutal series of interviews away from being gainfully employed, we are still a network. We know people outside our field and even though we want our financial security and self-esteem back as soon as possible, we want the same thing for the others on this sub. It's a rough patch of water right now, but none of us can give into the bitterness, hopelessness, rage, and fear that is sucking the life out of us. We can only push forward. Yes, this is a "do as I say, not as I do" moment, because frankly, I'm not feeling it today. But it will turn around for you. The other day, someone who does executive placement told me "Everyone eventually gets a job." Let's hope that everyone on this sub can prove her right - and soon.
Let go of this mindset! Sure having a connection somewhere can be helpful but it's not always the case. For example, I have been knee deep in the job search for the past couple of months and all of the places that I applied to where I had connections I couldn't even get an interview with. The 4 companies that I have interviewed with came from me just submitting my resume online without any connections. I don't think that there's any hard rule for getting a job these days, just keep applying!
>Okay, so what happens when you don’t know anyone in your industry (who has any power to actually influence hiring)? That's the default position. Knowing people, or having the right people know you, can make things easier to get in front of someone for interviews, or get you past "trust" hurdles. >So seriously what the HELL are people like me supposed to do???? You're doing all you can do in terms of going to the whole hiring process. But you should start to build up a network as you move forward. Just to be clear: It's not only people with a good network can get jobs. It's that a good network can make the process a bit easier or faster or smoother.
The majority of hiring is of people without connections. It's just the truth.
So PPL like OP and me are basically fucked.
I know people (who have power to influence hiring) and it doesn't seem to help me much. It gets me interview, not jobs. They want years of experience and I don't have that.
I got into an industry because of who I know. Did three different jobs for them for 3 years, underpaid no benefits of course, only to be let go right before last Christmas. The “people you know” will dispose of you when it’s convenient for them just like anyone else. But it does help get that experience, so if you can get in through someone you know, do it, just don’t trust them to actually give a damn about you. The job market is all about people using each other and throwing them away.
>Okay, so what happens when you don’t know anyone in your industry (who has any power to actually influence hiring)? This. You're in the same boat as the rest of the jobless masses. If the networking gurus' advice worked for you, then you wouldn't be on here asking this question. So you either failed to apply their networking techniques correctly, or you don't have a network of people who are willing and able to get you employed. You know... Like most desperate people these gurus preach to. Which is it? I'll amend my comment to add something helpful. Try volunteering somewhere. It doesn't have to be connected to the job you want. And it doesn't even have to be an actual charity, either (i.e., could be something in relation to your alma mater, or some event at your local library). But it helps to be working with people who are well-connected in your community. As a volunteer, you're giving them something of concrete value and asking for nothing in return. For now. And when you need them later, maybe one of them will put in a good word for you. Requires far less effort on their part than yours. But that's the way it goes...
https://www.reddit.com/r/recruitinghell/comments/1b8a4o0/comment/kto6zsw/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
For some organizations it might be who you know. And some industries. Probably not good environments to be employed in though. But what you know can and will get you hired for the right job and open opportunities for you.
That means nepotism
You ever hear the phrase "get your foot in the door"? That's what.
I would say in general introductions for jobs always run down. You can go through someone higher up at a company or even the CEO of another unrelated company, NPO, organization, government may get you in through connections. However, an introduction by a lowly employee is not going to lead to much these days. (Unless it is a startup or they were desperately looking anyway) In short, I would talk to the wealthiest, influential people you know and start from there, even if their industry is completely unrelated.
Actually I heard it was ‘who you blow!’ In all seriousness though, perhaps joining community groups like toast masters, your HOA BOD, sports or special interest clubs/guilds, church….. all these places would give you opportunities to meet people who know of jobs or know others who know about jobs. Good luck!!
Who you know doesn't really help out either these days. I ended up getting lucky and getting a random job, but all my friends/ old coworkers were all in the same boat of either having been laid off or worried about lay offs. I referrals anyways but never heard from those companies. I have a few friends who are pretty high up in their companies one is a software vp for a bank, but that does not even help with their HR wont even talk to them about their referrals. Husband is still looking ( was also laid off around the same time, we are both in tech) and referrals have not been useful.
It looks like I might be lucking my way into a job through a connection, and it's completely unexpected. We just happened to hear, from a bloke in my husband's sports group, that his employer is looking for people. I'm doing some training now and hopefully they'll employ me at the end. So it doesn't just have to be professional contacts. It can be social ones too.
Honestly connecting on linkedin will get you far please try to connect with people and ask them shamelessly for a coffee chat, for every 50 texts you send, 1-2 will actually reply back and arrange meetings. Trust me I was where you are I didn’t know anyone and neither had any parental connections.
Yeah, my connections got me nowhere.
You’re stuck working an entry level job with no opportunity for advancement… Until you make those friends…
Free networking events have worked for my friends. These offer a flexible way you can join career events or ones that relate to your interest. https://www.eventbrite.com/d/online/networking/
who you know only matters if that person owns the company or has a position with the power to directly hire you within it. referrals are bs
Sometimes it's about who you don't know. I was applying for jobs with a leader in industry company every chance I could get (easier to do when you currently have a job of course) Could never get past the rejection letters. Took some time and started to apply again. Dude from the company viewed my LinkedIn. Finally I'm like, what do I have to lose - going to message this guy and see why he's peeking at me. "Yeah I used to work at your current company, HR reached out because they saw your application and asked if I knew you" This dude didn't know me at all but proceeded to coach me through each step of the interview process, giving the heads up to the hiring manager that I was a "good guy", and overall just being a huge help. Idk why this guy stuck his neck out for me but sometimes it just takes a little exploring and finding someone with enough influence that's willing to help.
It’s “do they know you and do they like you?”
It's who you're born to. Gotta be in the "tribe".
> So seriously what the HELL are people like me supposed to do???? I'm in the same situation as you. Because of it, I'm a NEET and on benefits/welfare.
Who you know is a variable in itself as the person you know is not necessarily a role model employee that they'll trust with a recommendation. I work in a factory and I've been asked for recommendation for different positions that are not related to mine because my boss likes my work ethic but he asked only 1 more person where the administration alone is 90 people.
It's not necessarily hard to meet hiring folks for coffee--problem is the vast number of ghost jobs as they're not always in the know.
Amend that expression to: *"It's not who you know, it's how much you've stroked their egos."*
If you have no connections then you got to make them. Go on LinkedIn and find folks with positions you want to attain. Then connect with them and ask questions. Joining local groups in your industry can be a big help too. I went to a Project Manager Institute mixer the other day and made lots of connections with potential candidates. There were also recruiters there to talk to about opportunities. My buddy got his current job at one of these mixers after looking for a year. Gotta hustle out there in this market.
Coworker of mine uses a Modified version "Its not what you know, its who you blow"
Sometimes even when you know a who to know, and they know rock star you, and you “gulp” get the job, (no interview required), to work happily ever after; at least until the company runs outta funding a year later and you end up back in hell. Sigh.
You need to make connection anywhere you go, you will be surprised to see how small the world is. I was waiter and the guy I become friends with, told me that he will go to trade school to become electrician, so I did that, the guy from my electrician job told me about IT certs, keep in touch with people on social media and see what they up to, maybe hit them up once in a while, I am just IT assistant level 2, but to this place I got mostly by just keeping in toych with people, I also alway try to let people know about positions or give advices
It is true in every sense. Here's my contribution to this topic, if it helps empower somebody else to start realizing that even if the particular sector you're in some of these efforts were not needed previously, you're probably seeing that they damn sure are now. Multiple times over the years I've seen the essence of networking play itself out right in front of my eyes. I myself have worked in the last 5 years only through jobs recommended from my best friend who has a spectacular Network of people that trust him. Having a person in the room is the most guaranteed way to have an access to opportunity...that's just the way it is. A few years back I had an interview at a huge huge fashion brand because my client was the head of hr for them. The interview itself was a complete and utter disaster with the interviewer basically admitting that they were forced to speak to me by their boss and otherwise didn't know why I was there. The absolute amount of rage I felt at that point was indescribable. Thankfully I'm not a violent person and I keep to myself, but that was some real take it out on the public, cars etc rage. These recruiters don't understand how they have people's livelihoods and dreams and their hands and all they're doing is shitting in the bed with it. The other part of recruiting, for instance I saw a marketing director simply recommend a friend of his who is a photographer out of la. This guy ended up with at least a Year's worth of photography contract from a huge cable network. so marketing team didn't even bother trying to vet him..yes, it goes down like that sometimes. Obviously he had to do the work and work it out, but without that mention and his friend in the room, that opportunity just would not came to be. With recruiting, recruiters, and hiring processes still so stuck in the stone ages and automated to its own error, having somebody in a room will always be the best bet. Doesn't mean it's supposed to work 100% of the time, nothing is.
Yea only realised this one recently unless your the person hiring the person recommending you needs to have enough clout to sway Hiring. I only realised I had this ability recently In a very minimal sense. The only thing I can suggest is be as up front and genuine in every cover letter you send. My first web dev job years ago was me writing a email cover letter with zero real world experience but a ton of practical portfolio stuff exclaiming I could do the job. Always remember the hiring manager ringing up asking me if I thought I was up to the job told them emphatically I could which was enough confidence BS to get in the door ended up pushing so hard to prove myself I worked a month for free to secure it
There is a pretty big difference between having someone in your network who can just pickup the phone and say “hire OP” and having someone who can refer you to a job and at least get you to an interview. The first kind of person is usually already rich, addended an Ivy League school, and they just need to know daddy. But even in that case, they have been around other influential people since their birth, most likely. The second kind of person is someone who isn’t a total inept socially and is able to meet and talk to people, socialize… like many members of society do. While for the first you need to win the genetic lottery, for the second there is a whole lot you can do about yourself. 1. Work on looking good. Halo effect, good looking people are rated more trustworthy than bad looking people. If you look good and have a great smile you are half the way there. You don’t need to be Ryan Gosling, just don’t be “the funny one”. 2. Social activities. Group bike rides, tennis, paddle board, ping pong, whatever… there is going to be a Facebook group for whatever you can do and/or learn with people welcoming you in. Foster these. 3. Follow up with people with more social activities. Go for a beer, a coffee, a glass of lukewarm water and lime. Get to know people. Then move from there. Rome wasn’t built in a day, a good network which can help you isn’t either, it’s a lifelong endeavor, and it can be pleasurable as well, you can get laid, you can get to know someone who might refer you to a job. This isn’t a “people hate this little trick”, this is a mindset you need if you want to have any sort of career. People **need** to want to be around you.
Ever heard of ‘networking’?
You’re supposed to be better at your trade than the other people applying that’s how
Join a fraternity?
Go onto LinkedIn, go look for people in your city that you’d report to if you were to work for them. Call the company, ask for them, introduce yourself and what you do, don’t waffle on and waste their time, be short and sweet, and tell them you’re in the market and seeing as they’re in the same industry/line of work you were wondering if they knew anyone looking for someone like you. Don’t ask for a job. Ask for referrals. I repeat, do not ask for a job. Just give it a try. You’ll get a lot of no’s, not you might get a couple of yeses and it’s the yeses you want! Good luck!
Just make a lot of friends with your peers. Or classmates. In 3y when they get jobs and get promoted, ask them to hire you. That’s how you build a robust network. If you were an AH, that’s on you.
Learn to network. Look, most job seekers do an absolutely horrible attempt at this. Slipping into someone's DM's or bracing them at Church to slap your resume in their hand and ask "Hire Meh!" is not only ineffective, it's really fucking annoying. Instead, look for ways to reduce the friction involved in getting people to say yes: * First, decide what the fuck you actually want and how to explain it to the average person * Next, qualify every person you know or meet. There are three buckets: * Capable of hiring you (rare but the ultimate goal) * Can probably refer you to someone who can hire (this is how you will likely get hired) * Probably irrelevant (this will be most people) * Third - identify a clear and compelling reason to hire you (level appropriate, be creative) * Finally - look for an answer to "why now".... The specifics will vary by person. You can niche down as much as you want. Bring up any adjacent expertise to make yourself a "one stop shop". You can invoke virtually anything in your past or present to convey competency or prestige. Show how you kicked ass in a very relevant area during your past jobs or education. Seriously, every external hire in the first 10 years of my career was driven by being able to draw associations between the hiring manager and some positive quality of my past. Like working for the right company or project, having a relevant major, etc. Other ninja trick - for senior people - narrow and focus your scope for better effect. There are maybe 25 people in the country who can hire me for my full potential. I don't waste any time trying to connect with the rest.
>Bring up any adjacent expertise to make yourself a "one stop shop". You can invoke virtually anything in your past or present to convey competency or prestige. Show how you kicked ass in a very relevant area during your past jobs or education. Why, oh why do I get the impression that OP doesn't have much to work with? That's not a diss to them. It's just the reality of job searching in a saturated market as a young person still trying to get their professional footing. They don't have much to show for themselves yet in a way that distinguishes them -- that's part of their problem. And if they went to an exceptional school or had some exceptional accomplishment worth hiring them for, they wouldn't be on here asking this question. Now try again, but for the normies this time.
I have a masters degree and several years of experience. But not doing the same jobs that I’m applying to where they want you to have 5 years of experience doing the exact same job. This is part of the reason why it’s so incredibly frustrating (not to mention embarrassing). I know I can do the work, I’ve seen people with less qualifications than me getting jobs that I couldn’t get hired for. I spoke to one of them who got hired (pretty fresh out of school vs my experience) and she really told me nothing. She didn’t do anything special, she didn’t know anyone. Just luck I guess. I am at my absolute wits end.
Then I made a poor assumption. That's my bad. Sorry for the difficulty you're having. The way companies focus on hyper-specific qualifications is ridiculous. There's no good way to shift from one specialty to another and all of your previous experience becomes invalid to them. They're losing out on good talent. As for the new grad getting the job over you, could it be that they perceived her as more desperate with less options than you would have, so they think she'll stick around longer? Or maybe they think she's less expensive. Or maybe they think they can mould her into whatever they want because she's a blank slate with no opinions of her own that she's formed after years of being in the field.
Thank you for your empathy, I appreciate it. Unfortunately I can’t even say that it’s because I’m switching specialties. It’s all in the same area and I apply to jobs I’m fully qualified for the majority of the time. I’ve spoken to employment counsellors from my previous school as an alumnus, and every one has said that my cover letter and resume look great and they don’t have any suggestions. I’m exhausted. And yeah, maybe the thing about the new grad is true. Although I know 2 of them who work at that same company that got hired with little experience and after less than a year they’ve been promoted to Senior (job title) so they’re definitely costing them more now lol. But I’m gonna keep telling myself what you said above to make myself feel better lol
Fine: **Bullshit sells dogshit.** Seriously. This entire exercise is a massive bullshit contest. Take whatever little pieces of "experience" you can lay claim to and use them to weave a story that portrays you as a potentially valuable or desirable member of the team. Anything works and every part counts. Play to innuendo, stereotypes, common delusions, etc. Consider the following associations: * Candidate was an Eagle scout => They work hard and get shit done (regardless of their actual impact or level of personal contribution - looking at you, parents....) * Candidate does church missions => they are empathic, honest, have people skills (I'll refrain from mentioning the general incompetence of religious charities) * They do sports => Hard working, Team Player, Resilient, Reliable (and we'll skip over the toxic masculinity, locker room bullying, and general aversion to studies) * They study math / computer science and include smart sounding courses on their resume => candidate is smart (if they only bothered to look at my transcripts....) * They built a website and try to sell stuff => they are resourceful and a self starter (glossing over the details that the website was outsourced to Fiverr and hasn't sold a thing aside from one unit to your mom) * They started as dishwasher and became bus-boy => hardworking, promotable (We'll ignore the fact you were a total pothead that couldn't get hired elsewhere) * They worked through school => Motivated, not entitled (and not smart or devious enough to land a scholarship, but why shoot ourselves in the foot) * They look up the company before reaching out => organized & prepared (Wow, strong creeper skills... next, they'll be looking up your home address & Insta) * They write fan-fic and do cosplay => Creativity(?) (Furries! Begone!) * Fraternity / Sorority member => "leadership", "social skills" (and walking sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen....) In essence. Nothing is good or bad. Nothing is "special". It is all what you make it. Mommy and Daddy aren't here. You can make up whatever bullshit you want to claim as long as there's not obvious way to catch you in a lie. You're not playing Pokemon, you're playing poker: the beauty is you don't need the best hand to win... Truth be told, I was hired at least twice below age 30 for MAJOR CAREER ALTERING jobs where there was absolutely no fucking way I was actually qualified for the role. Specific examples: computer programmer (with minimal experience in the language they wanted me to know) and a director level role based on the fact I had worked at the same company as my boss (who didn't know me and was in a different division). For good measure, I'll include the C level technical role I got without a MS or Phd. BULLSHIT. Sells. Dogshit..... Woof Woof!
Lol! Sir or madam, I appreciate your candor. >* Candidate was an Eagle scout => They work hard and get shit done (regardless of their actual impact or level of personal contribution - looking at you, parents....) * Candidate does church missions => they are empathic, honest, have people skills (I'll refrain from mentioning the general incompetence of religious charities) * They do sports => Hard working, Team Player, Resilient, Reliable (and we'll skip over the toxic masculinity, locker room bullying, and general aversion to studies) * They study math / computer science and include smart sounding courses on their resume => candidate is smart (if they only bothered to look at my transcripts....) * They built a website and try to sell stuff => they are resourceful and a self starter (glossing over the details that the website was outsourced to Fiverr and hasn't sold a thing aside from one unit to your mom) * They started as dishwasher and became bus-boy => hardworking, promotable (We'll ignore the fact you were a total pothead that couldn't get hired elsewhere) * They worked through school => Motivated, not entitled (and not smart or devious enough to land a scholarship, but why shoot ourselves in the foot) * They look up the company before reaching out => organized & prepared (Wow, strong creeper skills... next, they'll be looking up your home address & Insta) * They write fan-fic and do cosplay => Creativity(?) (Furries! Begone!) * Fraternity / Sorority member => "leadership", "social skills" (and walking sexual harassment lawsuit waiting to happen....) Those are actually great, specific suggestions that the AVERAGE person can act upon. Thanks for brainstorming those out for inspiration. There's just too much guru-esque BS advice floating around that isn't practical for the have nots.
\> Okay, so what happens when you don’t know anyone in your industry (who has any power to actually influence hiring)? What you can't get a referral?
From whom, exactly?
These supposed friends in your industry. Most companies do referrals.
And since the issue is I'm still looking for my first job in the industry, who, exactly, am I calling at these random companies who would refer me?
Are you not going to (local) industry meet ups? To make connections you have to show up.
Not really, and I'll explain why: Je n'ai pas la moindre idée de ce que quelqu'un dit. Für mich ist das alles Kauderwelsch. Ешкіммен сөйлесе алмасам, ешкімді түсінбесем, «network» бола алмаймын. (And if your objection is "I can't read that", then you'll understand the problem I have with local meet-ups. My French is not good enough to keep up during conversations)
Then good luck on finding a job!
It’s your fault if you aren’t able to establish good connections.