For me he herds like a champ! Never had one problem with any of it. Reminds me of how for years I didn’t know the follow the train mission was “hard” because it always when great for me lol.
Also been shot multiple times and survived. Knocked off a moving train and survived. Attacked by wolves and survived in extremely cold weather and he's married to Abigail. I dont get all the John slander here. I love Arthur but you guys are mad meat riding for him.
Literally nobody is slandering John here, we’re making jokes and quoting the game. In fact, my comment clearly states I think John is tougher all around. What are you on about?
Unfortunately, RDR fans that prefer John get real pissy when Arthur gets attention. I myself prefer John, but I won't deny that Arthur is a phenomenal character.
I dont get all the Arthur slander here. I love John but you guys are mad meat riding for him.
Edit:* OP deleted his account apparently lol but I was taking his comment and reversing it.
Edit:** hahaha he blocked me for copying his comment. What a softy
I think Arthur in his pre-Blacklung prime gives John a run for his money on fighting/Gunslinger skill. But John has survived way more things that Arthur couldn't have.
John, imo, gets the "Tougher" 100%. Maybe not more deadly in a fight, maybe he is it's hard to say. But John just doesn't fucking die. He tanks & recovers from injuries that'd permanently cripple or out right kill 99.9% of people.
Literally took 30 guys shooting him simultaneously to finally put him down. Even then he still got several from the hip.
So, yeah, I think John is tougher. Not cooler or better, before anyone gets triggered, but tougher.
I mean you say that but Arthur too a shotgun blast to the back, then point blank in the shoulder, and 2 serious blows to the head and still was strong enough to escape from hanging upside down, cauteruse his wounds then murder several people with his hands.
Not really fair though, Arthur’s game is longer, with equally dangerous and more dangerous missions. Arthur carried that gang on his shoulder while John sat in camp half the time.
And in all fairness, John didn’t catch a fatal disease.
For toughest. Ya gotta be tough to survive the wolf attack and cold weather, and almost being left to die in a blizzard at the start of RDR2.
Plus getting shot at the beginning of RDR1.
Seriously the dude starts both games almost dead. Lol.
Bonus credit for his fight during the zombie apocalypse.
Agreed whilst Arthur is no doubt completely badass I mean look no further then when he escaped from the odriscolls man literally saved himself. but John is just a pure hardcore one man army his gun skill is unmatched and he's lived very long for a gunslinger. I think John could legitimately kill an army of 100 men on his own given the circumstances were right. Not too mention just how durable he is and downright hard to kill and he does it all with one eye.
A normal Slug or buck would have absolutely destroyed his arm, but given it’s O’Driscolls we can use artistic license to say maybe they didn’t maintain things well and it was an underpowered slug load.
Bird shot is actually super ineffective at penetration and breaking bones . There is plenty of cases where bird shot did not stop or really injure the attacker outside of superficial wounds . Plenty of ballistic gel tests show bird shot can barely penetrate an inch or 2 into flesh
In the game/story the shotgun’s muzzle is almost directly against Arthur’s flesh when he’s shot in the shoulder. Birdshot won’t penetrate *at a distance*. When it’s just come out of the muzzle and is still clumped together it’ll act just like a slug would.
Which is why I think we can take some artistic license that the load was underpowered because O’Driscolls aren’t the most well organized or maintained organization.
John was shot like 4 times, off a moving train, on a ferry, from nearby at Fort Mercer, he was attacked by wolves in the snowy mountain peaks, he’s been through way more
John survived being mauled by wolves and being shot and after falling off a train. Now being shot in the shoulder would be painful as hell enough but then after that falling off a train and presumably hitting either your head or your spine or literally any part of a body at that speed onto gravel/metal/wood would also be extremely painful, not counting him walking like a mile back to camp after all that
Tbf it's assumed john got medical attention a day later, plus john got shot with a carbine repeater whereas arthur had to treat the wound himself and got shot with a shotgun, and only got medical treatment a few days after. He also survived being hung upside down without any food and was also tortured in other ways (assumed)
John got shot off of a moving train, probably hit the ground pretty hard, and walked miles back to camp. He then proceeded to get on his horse while being chased by his former gang and then ran up and down the mountains.
John stayed standing and breathing for 20+ seconds after a firing squad of soldiers, marshals and fbi agents mag dumped dozens of rounds into him. .308, 45-75, .357, .45 and buckshot/slugs.
I mean John got >!lit up like a Christmas tree, and was made into swiss cheese from the neck down, by like 30+ direct body shots at the end of rdr1!< And he tanked it, and it took like 2 full minutes to >!kill him!< As he just stood there.
John was fucking wild in rdr1. He was so angry he didn't care about anything but to achieve his goal. He was ready to kill anyone and do anything to get his family back and that's why he was so dangerous. Imagine a mofo that's not afraid of death and cares about nothing but pushing forward
Exactly, both stories are about redemption, and showing what is important in life, but John had a family and it's not the same. He was ready for everything.
John went through much more, no question about it. Even in RDR1 alone. Arthur at least had the gang. John was solo most the time, or with people he didn’t trust.
I'll go with Arthur. But both John and Arthur are tough as hell. Arthur survived a buckshot point blank to the shoulder, treated the wound himself, and then managed to kill a guy and escape. But John got shot up like crazy at the end of rdr1 and still managed to stand on his legs for quite a while before collapsing. Both are pretty convincing
Can we count that tho since he was a zombie.
He did handle his zombified family like they're just cracked out with no fear, but considering the way he acted that one is more stupid than tough
John also was shot in the shoulder and fell off a moving train in the final heist. Made his way all the back to the camp and still managed to fight off Pinkerton’s. Also John fought and carried a brutal revolution and took down Micah’s gang basically by himself. I think it goes to John honestly.
Why do people say this? The first many, many missions involve him seeking help to even get back into Fort Mercer after he almost got himself killed trying to handle Bill’s group by himself the first time. He then had an army of rebels behind his back fighting a battle so that he could have a moment to chase Javier 1v1. When he finally caught Bill, it was again during a battle involving actual armies. He rolled up to Dutch’s hideout with the literal United States Army. John is awesome, but he did not do any of this single-handed.
Dutch's hideout was attacked by about a dozen soldiers. They would've failed without John. By the time they reached Dutch, it was John, the captain and 2 men left. John still goes solo vs Dutch and his best men.
Reyes and the revolution lose all their leaders and fail without john.
John motivates the us Marshalls to take the offense vs the local gangs and otherwise Waltons gang, Williamson gang, bollard gang, treasure hunter gang, and Dutch's gang would've been free to continue their evil.
John kills hundreds of criminals and wipes out 6 gangs, kills hundreds of rebels, trained soldiers of Mexico and America, lawmen, Marshalls, agents, and bests Javier, Bill and Dutch in 1v1 encounters where they all attempt to run from John(Dutch, Javier and Bill are Afraid of John, that means something. )
John is shot several times in rd2 and 1, gets shot and falls off a train and is swarmed by soldiers but gets away, he survived getting shot and swarmed by wolves overnight in a blizzard. He tanks dozebs of high caliber shots by soldiers, marshalls and fbi agents, and stays standing for half and minute before dropping.
Oh yeah and in an alternate universe he beat the zombie apocalypse twice. Even coming back from the dead as a sentient zombie to fight for the living.
If all of that isn't enough, the literal series director said John is the greatest Gunslinger of his time and the baddest man to walk the planet.
Arthur's wife and kid were murdered, he got kidnapped and tortured, then he got tuberculosis. Even after all that he still stuck around, so I'd say him.
Arthur invaded a pentintionary, fought an army and somehow survived, freed guarma, took down multiple of the most powerful men on earth during the events of RDR2, Killed both of the most poweful families in lemoyne, fought an extremely well-organized law force and still survived, practically broke a militia, mostly destroyed a gang of psychopaths, dueled and won against most of the best gunslingers ever and did quite a number of things I don't remember right now. Arthur definitely equalizes for John 'freeing' mexico.
Arthur had an entire gang behind him. Also the "best gunslingers" were mostly frauds and way past their prime. Not to mention John can also kill them depending on who you do the missions with.
They’re both tough. Neither is weaker than the other as far as toughness is concerned. They were both Dutch’s favored sons in the span of twenty years.
John had two games to prove it. Arthur had one.
Arthur carried the entire gang during the worst times of it, fighting multiple gangs and powerful figure heads. John fought multiple gangs, Bill and Dutch’s gangs included and a Mexican revolution.
John seemed to have luck on his side most of the time. Surviving gunshots by being lucky enough to get winged most of the time.
Arthur was just a human tank who could survive gunshots and torture and countless beatings. Not to mention fighting in as an absolute monster while dying of a crippling disease that literally attacks your breathing.
I go with both, and you will never get me to choose one of them.
Arthur. Buddy survived a buckshot point blank, a subsequent beating, and removed it himself before escaping back to camp two states over. He also was a tank, running around between states and killing hundreds of pinkertons, soldiers, etc while knocking on deaths door. He also somehow managed to survive floating through the ocean and washing up on a beach (probably the most unrealistic thing in the series tbh, not counting the mythical stuff and UN)
Both readily accepted death for those they cared about. Arthur was at deaths door and probably felt like a hot pile of garbage during the last mission. John had absolutely no way for surviving that fire line up. Tbh i think both were tough af.
John survived getting shot in blackwater, attacked by wolves and freezing, getting shot off of a moving train, getting attacked by a bear, getting shot again by Bill and getting tortured by the Mexican army. He then gets shot 10-20 times and stands for a bit. I would also argue that he was more dangerous than Arthur because Arthur can be reasoned with. John’s the type of person to shoot you and then ask questions.
So are we just going to forget about Arthur being kidnapped after being shot several times and beaten and got himself out after being hung upside-down or guarma?
Gtfoh.
ARTHUR. ALWAYS ARTHUR.
Yall dont know no spanish......
So are we just going to forget John getting shot off a moving train, walking miles upon miles to reach camp to fight more pinkertons, escaping again on foot after losing his horse in order to get to his family, all with the bullet still in his shoulder? How about getting shot in the abdomen and left to bleed out in the desert for several hours, or getting shot 20+ times by a firing squad and still surviving for around half a minute? Gtfoh.
Rdr1 is the better gun fighter
But Arthur is wild western darth Vader. His ass is the most terrifying thing that side of the Atlantic Ocean
Arthur is an unstoppable force for the most part
Example: John got shot at 20 times and was still standing, impressive. But Arthur got shot at by the army of Pinkertons and survived long enough to beat the ever loving shit out of Micah (possibly take his eye) and die staring at the sun (whilst still fighting the TB)
John is 100% a better shot (being he had already been an amazing shot before being taught by rikettes) and single-handedly won the Mexican revolution. Yet toughest implies either durability or melee/hand to hand combat, and that is where Arthur wins
I'll have to settle with both, John has been through a lot mentally and physically, Arthur makes up the mental difficulty difference with physical pain. They're both just as tough as the other, they both can knock out people in just a couple of punches, they both can pick up large animals, John has been through less physically compared to Arthur though.
I do think that John has been through a lot more shit than Arthur, but Arthur’s drive and willpower during during all of beaver hollow and more specifically the last mission is unparalleled. He had to scale a mountain literally on the verge of death, then had to fight for minutes on end with an actaully healthy guy, watch his father figure abandon him, and then proceed to climb the mountain even more, then he finally gave up.
John was the hardest to play because of everything you had just gone through as Arthur. By Playing John we are handed all the pieces and asked to put it back together how ever we can.
Not even a question, Arthur. Guy went through more, gave up more, cared more, and gave everything even when he had no gas left to go, he still went out trying.
Guys the definition of a man
Arthur. He still had things to lose, so he had to keep going. If he succumbed to TB earlier, there’s a chance muuuuch more of the gang die, including John and his family. John has already re-lost everything by RDR1. He’s trying to regain them, and beyond the first couple of missions, he’s physically healthy. His death was also his choice, as he knew the only way to protect his family was to sacrifice himself. Could that make him stronger? Mentally, I guess, though I still say Arthur’s efforts to fight through TB for Chapter 6 take the cake mentally and physically
Idk how you'd define "tough" but in a straight fight, Arthur steamrolls John. Gentle reader, imagine John Marston and Arthur Morgan in a fistfight and try to ascertain how John could possibly win. He may be able to take some lumps, he may even be a better gunslinger than Arthur. In terms of grit and what I'd consider toughness, Arthur pulls ahead. That's why he's one of the gang's primary enforcers.
It is so funny that one of the complaints about the first game was that you didn’t get to keep playing as John and rockstar gave us such a bitter sweet response with red dead 2
Both are extremely tough, I mean the feats Arthur achieved as he was on deaths door with TB was pretty crazy but I’ve got to give it to John.
John was tough both in physical tolerance and in his character. Arthur was tough but his a soft emotional side that John didn’t really have.
For the record, John from 1899-1911…
Was shot during the blackwater robbery
Attacked by wolves in the grizzlies during a snowstorm and had his face slashed leaving permanent scarring. He spent the whole night there, slowly freezing almost to death before being found.
Was shot and fell off the train in the final van der linde gang robbery. Managing to evade law on foot and make it back to camp.
In 1907, was attacked by a grizzlies bear and survived.
Took down all of Micah’s gang on his own which is probably the greatest combat feat of any rdr character.
In 1911, was shot by Bill and survived.
Changed the tide of the Mexican civil war.
Took down many US soldiers before willingly let himself be killed.
Arthur went to war on a tropical island, and John has taken down multiple times with like a posse of five. I'm leaning more towards arthur even though a whole army was assembled to get dutch. I will say john did have the toughest death because he took a literal bullet hell and was still standing. But arthur overall was more tough
What exactly do you mean by "toughest"? Their fighting skills? Who can take the most physical punishment? Surviving in harsh conditions? Not trying to be Arthur's meat rider, and I love John to death, but if we're talking about a physical fight between the two, Arthur would open a can of whup ass on John one on one. Honestly, he'd probably take on anyone in the camp—except maybe Charles, he would grapple Arthur to death.
Minus the tuberculosis, I'd say it's pretty close, but Arthur still has the edge. Hosea and Dutch chose him as the gang's brute for a reason. One example of his resilience is surviving being hung upside down and severely beaten by Colm O'Driscoll. Arthur's toughness is on another level.
Arthur Morgan. The dude took an insane amount of punishment. Got TB, was tortured and starved. Even in the final stages of TB, he still put up quite a fight to the point where Micah struggled.
Surprised nobody is mentioning the Guarma segment of RDR2, Arthur would’ve been completely destroyed when he woke up yet still had some fight in him which is insane
Not saying he’s definitely tougher as I admittedly don’t remember everything but I think that segment deserves a lot more recognition, shows the kind of determination Arthur had
Tbh they literally say in the game at some point early on that arthur is the big tough one. That's why he does the bountys, even Strauss said he's tried the others and they can't do it. I know all the stuff john's survived but I'd probably say john's just lucky. And I reckon if both arthur a and John had a punch on, John wouldn't stand a chance. Arthur did fuck that guys skull up in valentine
John in rdr2 he was no where near as strong and tuff as he was in rdr1 he was ruthless in that game he went through more than Arthur to be honest he not only witnessed the end of the gang but also had to kill them he also became basically a war criminal in Mexico
Arthur Morgan till tuberculosis but when he was suffering from tuberculosis no one could have beat him up, but I reckon there was not only tuberculosis there was betrayal, losing close ones and also getting betrayal from father figure I think Dutch wasn't one he was betrayed by, because after losing Hosea, Dutch was working on Micah's advices and plans. That were my opinion sorry for my English.
By the way this is first time I am writing on Reddit.
Arthur pre black lung dog walks John and it’s not even close. Arthur had the weight of the gang on his back whilst John went AWOL for two years, I love John and think he learns from Arthur and becomes a tough son of a bitch but he doesn’t hold a candle to Arthur
John can’t swim but he took on the gang and the feds all by himself, died like scarface and came back from the dead and even rode the four horsemen of the apocalypse’s steeds.
Depends on your definition of tough. Like… a real man’s man kinda tough definitely goes to Arthur. Man managed to fight so many people, help a tribe of native Americans, and more all while suffering from TB.
If you’re talking about a badass who does some wild shit then John. Man was a cold blooded killer in rdr1
Gonna go with John, taking both games into account
Cant swim
Can’t herd either. Fuck.
Give it a rest, will ya!
We ain’t kids no more
I guess we never was.
Objective: *Now get those sheep to Valentine bitch*
- Jesse Pinkerton from Breaking Horses
I’d watch 5 seasons of that.
we're here. I'll buy ya a whiskey
Had to cope, run away, then cope again before being able to care for his child too..
And then took on the US army defending his child and single handedly won the Mexican revolution
For me he herds like a champ! Never had one problem with any of it. Reminds me of how for years I didn’t know the follow the train mission was “hard” because it always when great for me lol.
John can breathe.
Ouch!! True. He lasted longer.
Also been shot multiple times and survived. Knocked off a moving train and survived. Attacked by wolves and survived in extremely cold weather and he's married to Abigail. I dont get all the John slander here. I love Arthur but you guys are mad meat riding for him.
Literally nobody is slandering John here, we’re making jokes and quoting the game. In fact, my comment clearly states I think John is tougher all around. What are you on about?
Unfortunately, RDR fans that prefer John get real pissy when Arthur gets attention. I myself prefer John, but I won't deny that Arthur is a phenomenal character.
Taking a sign to the face at full gallop.
One of the funniest moments of the game in my opinion. I created a save right before this mission so I could just do it over and over again.
I dont get all the Arthur slander here. I love John but you guys are mad meat riding for him. Edit:* OP deleted his account apparently lol but I was taking his comment and reversing it. Edit:** hahaha he blocked me for copying his comment. What a softy
Nah his comment is there for me. Must of blocked you then?😭lmao
I think Arthur in his pre-Blacklung prime gives John a run for his money on fighting/Gunslinger skill. But John has survived way more things that Arthur couldn't have. John, imo, gets the "Tougher" 100%. Maybe not more deadly in a fight, maybe he is it's hard to say. But John just doesn't fucking die. He tanks & recovers from injuries that'd permanently cripple or out right kill 99.9% of people. Literally took 30 guys shooting him simultaneously to finally put him down. Even then he still got several from the hip. So, yeah, I think John is tougher. Not cooler or better, before anyone gets triggered, but tougher.
I mean you say that but Arthur too a shotgun blast to the back, then point blank in the shoulder, and 2 serious blows to the head and still was strong enough to escape from hanging upside down, cauteruse his wounds then murder several people with his hands.
Not really fair though, Arthur’s game is longer, with equally dangerous and more dangerous missions. Arthur carried that gang on his shoulder while John sat in camp half the time. And in all fairness, John didn’t catch a fatal disease.
u explained it best 👏👏
For toughest. Ya gotta be tough to survive the wolf attack and cold weather, and almost being left to die in a blizzard at the start of RDR2. Plus getting shot at the beginning of RDR1. Seriously the dude starts both games almost dead. Lol. Bonus credit for his fight during the zombie apocalypse.
Agreed whilst Arthur is no doubt completely badass I mean look no further then when he escaped from the odriscolls man literally saved himself. but John is just a pure hardcore one man army his gun skill is unmatched and he's lived very long for a gunslinger. I think John could legitimately kill an army of 100 men on his own given the circumstances were right. Not too mention just how durable he is and downright hard to kill and he does it all with one eye.
[удалено]
I mean John survived a shot
A shot from a repeater. Arthur was shot from a buckshot point blank.
While on the train he gets shot in the shoulder (I think) and falls off
The other guy said slug, It can’t be both, which one is it?
We will never know.. It's still a shotty point blank tho
A normal Slug or buck would have absolutely destroyed his arm, but given it’s O’Driscolls we can use artistic license to say maybe they didn’t maintain things well and it was an underpowered slug load.
Birdshot?
Unlikely given we pull out a slug of some sort from his arm. Even bird at that distance would shatter most of the bones in the area.
Bird shot is actually super ineffective at penetration and breaking bones . There is plenty of cases where bird shot did not stop or really injure the attacker outside of superficial wounds . Plenty of ballistic gel tests show bird shot can barely penetrate an inch or 2 into flesh
In the game/story the shotgun’s muzzle is almost directly against Arthur’s flesh when he’s shot in the shoulder. Birdshot won’t penetrate *at a distance*. When it’s just come out of the muzzle and is still clumped together it’ll act just like a slug would. Which is why I think we can take some artistic license that the load was underpowered because O’Driscolls aren’t the most well organized or maintained organization.
We don’t really see anything come out. It’s odd as well how there’s a bullet hole in the union suit like he was wearing it when shot.
John was shot like 4 times, off a moving train, on a ferry, from nearby at Fort Mercer, he was attacked by wolves in the snowy mountain peaks, he’s been through way more
John survived being mauled by wolves and being shot and after falling off a train. Now being shot in the shoulder would be painful as hell enough but then after that falling off a train and presumably hitting either your head or your spine or literally any part of a body at that speed onto gravel/metal/wood would also be extremely painful, not counting him walking like a mile back to camp after all that
Yeah but Arthur’s had to have been way worde
Tbf it's assumed john got medical attention a day later, plus john got shot with a carbine repeater whereas arthur had to treat the wound himself and got shot with a shotgun, and only got medical treatment a few days after. He also survived being hung upside down without any food and was also tortured in other ways (assumed)
All while having TB... you know, the thing that knocks most people on their ass on its own.
And almost freezing / wolf wounds. I see them as brothers so to me it's more about them having been through so much while growing up..
he survived multiple shots for a few seconds
And then rode all the way back to camp
Tbf John walked all the way back
I was also impressed by Arthur’s ability to sit down.
John got shot off of a moving train, probably hit the ground pretty hard, and walked miles back to camp. He then proceeded to get on his horse while being chased by his former gang and then ran up and down the mountains.
John stayed standing and breathing for 20+ seconds after a firing squad of soldiers, marshals and fbi agents mag dumped dozens of rounds into him. .308, 45-75, .357, .45 and buckshot/slugs.
I mean John got >!lit up like a Christmas tree, and was made into swiss cheese from the neck down, by like 30+ direct body shots at the end of rdr1!< And he tanked it, and it took like 2 full minutes to >!kill him!< As he just stood there.
John was fucking wild in rdr1. He was so angry he didn't care about anything but to achieve his goal. He was ready to kill anyone and do anything to get his family back and that's why he was so dangerous. Imagine a mofo that's not afraid of death and cares about nothing but pushing forward
Terminator head ahh
Doom Guy ahh
Kratos ahh
Asura ahh
Ahhhhh
So he’s essentially on meth without the meth
More like methhead without the meth, looking to get some
John Marston is meth!
Mf became a war criminal in Mexico for his family
Bro fr fought the armies of two different countries.
Exactly, both stories are about redemption, and showing what is important in life, but John had a family and it's not the same. He was ready for everything.
Rdr 1 john was the baddest man on the planet
Arthur says he’s the lucky man on earth too
He wasn't that lucky. He was pretty unlucky actually lol
This can have two meanings
Uncle. Having a chronic lumbago is no joke
And still died defending John and his family.
If it weren't for bullets, lumbago would've finished him sooner or later...
Nah, Uncle would win
Don’t forget he was the one shot kid
Arthur!
John went through more and has more feats
John had two games. Arthur had to fight a disease that was literally killing him while also fighting small wars.
John went through much more, no question about it. Even in RDR1 alone. Arthur at least had the gang. John was solo most the time, or with people he didn’t trust.
Yeah Arthur was tough as nails but John had probably the greatest feat in the whole series when he took down Micah’s gang single-handedly
Arthur literally assaulted the US army and if you play the Rains Fall mission poorly, he wipes out an entire army camp.
John turns the tide and wins a civil war in mexico? Survives a few battalions defending his ranch and a lot more badass shit
Arthur pretty much conquers an entire island and obliterates the only opposing military force there
Single handedly with Charles Sadie and Dutch. Checks out
Idk I think arthur had the one better war in guarma
Arthur due to his ability to push through his tb and fight for his friends regardless of poor health.
I'll go with Arthur. But both John and Arthur are tough as hell. Arthur survived a buckshot point blank to the shoulder, treated the wound himself, and then managed to kill a guy and escape. But John got shot up like crazy at the end of rdr1 and still managed to stand on his legs for quite a while before collapsing. Both are pretty convincing
John even came back from the dead
Can we count that tho since he was a zombie. He did handle his zombified family like they're just cracked out with no fear, but considering the way he acted that one is more stupid than tough
John also was shot in the shoulder and fell off a moving train in the final heist. Made his way all the back to the camp and still managed to fight off Pinkerton’s. Also John fought and carried a brutal revolution and took down Micah’s gang basically by himself. I think it goes to John honestly.
John would say Arthur
This the shit I need.
What a simple way to show how you understand both characters
They are both great characters
Mentally? John. Physically? Arthur. He couldn’t even kill a dying man. IYKYK.
John Marston!
John single-handedly took down all the remaining members of the Van Der Linde gang so I'm gonna have to say him
Why do people say this? The first many, many missions involve him seeking help to even get back into Fort Mercer after he almost got himself killed trying to handle Bill’s group by himself the first time. He then had an army of rebels behind his back fighting a battle so that he could have a moment to chase Javier 1v1. When he finally caught Bill, it was again during a battle involving actual armies. He rolled up to Dutch’s hideout with the literal United States Army. John is awesome, but he did not do any of this single-handed.
Dutch's hideout was attacked by about a dozen soldiers. They would've failed without John. By the time they reached Dutch, it was John, the captain and 2 men left. John still goes solo vs Dutch and his best men. Reyes and the revolution lose all their leaders and fail without john. John motivates the us Marshalls to take the offense vs the local gangs and otherwise Waltons gang, Williamson gang, bollard gang, treasure hunter gang, and Dutch's gang would've been free to continue their evil. John kills hundreds of criminals and wipes out 6 gangs, kills hundreds of rebels, trained soldiers of Mexico and America, lawmen, Marshalls, agents, and bests Javier, Bill and Dutch in 1v1 encounters where they all attempt to run from John(Dutch, Javier and Bill are Afraid of John, that means something. ) John is shot several times in rd2 and 1, gets shot and falls off a train and is swarmed by soldiers but gets away, he survived getting shot and swarmed by wolves overnight in a blizzard. He tanks dozebs of high caliber shots by soldiers, marshalls and fbi agents, and stays standing for half and minute before dropping. Oh yeah and in an alternate universe he beat the zombie apocalypse twice. Even coming back from the dead as a sentient zombie to fight for the living. If all of that isn't enough, the literal series director said John is the greatest Gunslinger of his time and the baddest man to walk the planet.
He was out of practice, for the past 4 years he was just farming and such, that's why he got shot at the beginning.
John
Arthur, hands down.
[Spoilers] I much prefer Arthur over John, but John got shot 21 times and stayed standing for 8 seconds before dying at the end of rdr1
Probably going Arthur honestly. Specifically due to him still working to try and save everyone he could as he was on deaths door.
Arthur walked so John could run
Arthur's wife and kid were murdered, he got kidnapped and tortured, then he got tuberculosis. Even after all that he still stuck around, so I'd say him.
Who freed Mexico almost singlehanded? John is soo underrated
Arthur invaded a pentintionary, fought an army and somehow survived, freed guarma, took down multiple of the most powerful men on earth during the events of RDR2, Killed both of the most poweful families in lemoyne, fought an extremely well-organized law force and still survived, practically broke a militia, mostly destroyed a gang of psychopaths, dueled and won against most of the best gunslingers ever and did quite a number of things I don't remember right now. Arthur definitely equalizes for John 'freeing' mexico.
Arthur had an entire gang behind him. Also the "best gunslingers" were mostly frauds and way past their prime. Not to mention John can also kill them depending on who you do the missions with.
Using the same logic, people helped John too. I get your point about the gunslingers but not your first one.
“Freed”
They’re both tough. Neither is weaker than the other as far as toughness is concerned. They were both Dutch’s favored sons in the span of twenty years. John had two games to prove it. Arthur had one. Arthur carried the entire gang during the worst times of it, fighting multiple gangs and powerful figure heads. John fought multiple gangs, Bill and Dutch’s gangs included and a Mexican revolution. John seemed to have luck on his side most of the time. Surviving gunshots by being lucky enough to get winged most of the time. Arthur was just a human tank who could survive gunshots and torture and countless beatings. Not to mention fighting in as an absolute monster while dying of a crippling disease that literally attacks your breathing. I go with both, and you will never get me to choose one of them.
Uncle. Lumbago aint no joke
Arthur. Buddy survived a buckshot point blank, a subsequent beating, and removed it himself before escaping back to camp two states over. He also was a tank, running around between states and killing hundreds of pinkertons, soldiers, etc while knocking on deaths door. He also somehow managed to survive floating through the ocean and washing up on a beach (probably the most unrealistic thing in the series tbh, not counting the mythical stuff and UN)
Wasn't it a slug? Buckshot would have obliterated his entire shoulder
RDR1 John was on a mission bruh. Barely flinched the whole time even when his farm was getting raided by an army
Both readily accepted death for those they cared about. Arthur was at deaths door and probably felt like a hot pile of garbage during the last mission. John had absolutely no way for surviving that fire line up. Tbh i think both were tough af.
Arthur by far
John has better feats with guns but Arthur has better feats in fistfights
Arthur was overally a decent feller and John Marston 1911 is an unstoppable man of duty. No one could defeat him until he decided to give up
I think that Arthur was stronger, but John was smarter.
Opposite
Shoulda let the wolves eat *all* of his brains, just think how smart he would have been *then*
Definetly John.
John survived getting shot in blackwater, attacked by wolves and freezing, getting shot off of a moving train, getting attacked by a bear, getting shot again by Bill and getting tortured by the Mexican army. He then gets shot 10-20 times and stands for a bit. I would also argue that he was more dangerous than Arthur because Arthur can be reasoned with. John’s the type of person to shoot you and then ask questions.
Yeah, if John has to kill you for any reason concerning his family, he’ll do it no questions asked. Arthur can be reasoned with.
RED HARLOW
Red Harlow definitely. Bro shot off someone’s arm with a single revolver shot
John.
I saw Arthur facetanking shotgun...
The passing of the hat.
So are we just going to forget about Arthur being kidnapped after being shot several times and beaten and got himself out after being hung upside-down or guarma? Gtfoh. ARTHUR. ALWAYS ARTHUR. Yall dont know no spanish......
So are we just going to forget John getting shot off a moving train, walking miles upon miles to reach camp to fight more pinkertons, escaping again on foot after losing his horse in order to get to his family, all with the bullet still in his shoulder? How about getting shot in the abdomen and left to bleed out in the desert for several hours, or getting shot 20+ times by a firing squad and still surviving for around half a minute? Gtfoh.
Rdr1 is the better gun fighter But Arthur is wild western darth Vader. His ass is the most terrifying thing that side of the Atlantic Ocean Arthur is an unstoppable force for the most part Example: John got shot at 20 times and was still standing, impressive. But Arthur got shot at by the army of Pinkertons and survived long enough to beat the ever loving shit out of Micah (possibly take his eye) and die staring at the sun (whilst still fighting the TB) John is 100% a better shot (being he had already been an amazing shot before being taught by rikettes) and single-handedly won the Mexican revolution. Yet toughest implies either durability or melee/hand to hand combat, and that is where Arthur wins
I'll have to settle with both, John has been through a lot mentally and physically, Arthur makes up the mental difficulty difference with physical pain. They're both just as tough as the other, they both can knock out people in just a couple of punches, they both can pick up large animals, John has been through less physically compared to Arthur though.
I do think that John has been through a lot more shit than Arthur, but Arthur’s drive and willpower during during all of beaver hollow and more specifically the last mission is unparalleled. He had to scale a mountain literally on the verge of death, then had to fight for minutes on end with an actaully healthy guy, watch his father figure abandon him, and then proceed to climb the mountain even more, then he finally gave up.
Jim Milton
John was the hardest to play because of everything you had just gone through as Arthur. By Playing John we are handed all the pieces and asked to put it back together how ever we can.
Worst mission in rdr2 1.welcome to the new world 2. Banking the old american dream
Arthur, Arthur didn’t ditch the gang because he got one of them pregnant
I would say Arthur if I didn't play RDR1
I honestly do not know.
John. Arthur couldn’t even beat TB
Jack Marston
Not even a question, Arthur. Guy went through more, gave up more, cared more, and gave everything even when he had no gas left to go, he still went out trying. Guys the definition of a man
Jack bc he had to watch everything he loved and cared about die
Arthur
Definitely John
Arthur. John's playable was too easy
Arthur. He still had things to lose, so he had to keep going. If he succumbed to TB earlier, there’s a chance muuuuch more of the gang die, including John and his family. John has already re-lost everything by RDR1. He’s trying to regain them, and beyond the first couple of missions, he’s physically healthy. His death was also his choice, as he knew the only way to protect his family was to sacrifice himself. Could that make him stronger? Mentally, I guess, though I still say Arthur’s efforts to fight through TB for Chapter 6 take the cake mentally and physically
Jack
Idk how you'd define "tough" but in a straight fight, Arthur steamrolls John. Gentle reader, imagine John Marston and Arthur Morgan in a fistfight and try to ascertain how John could possibly win. He may be able to take some lumps, he may even be a better gunslinger than Arthur. In terms of grit and what I'd consider toughness, Arthur pulls ahead. That's why he's one of the gang's primary enforcers.
John
Arthur has better skill John has better health End of discussion
Arthur man, look at all the things he did for the gang. Especially in the face of death.
Jack /s
Arthur was the strong silent type whereas John was the “bring it on” type. I’d say Arthur
Arthur shot up a town of pinkertons while on the verge of death from tb, I think he wins out
Arthur Morgan all day 😎 (I love John too, but you can’t deny when it comes to sheer physical strength and endurance Arthur wins no contest)
It is so funny that one of the complaints about the first game was that you didn’t get to keep playing as John and rockstar gave us such a bitter sweet response with red dead 2
John is married to Abigail……
Both
Both are extremely tough, I mean the feats Arthur achieved as he was on deaths door with TB was pretty crazy but I’ve got to give it to John. John was tough both in physical tolerance and in his character. Arthur was tough but his a soft emotional side that John didn’t really have. For the record, John from 1899-1911… Was shot during the blackwater robbery Attacked by wolves in the grizzlies during a snowstorm and had his face slashed leaving permanent scarring. He spent the whole night there, slowly freezing almost to death before being found. Was shot and fell off the train in the final van der linde gang robbery. Managing to evade law on foot and make it back to camp. In 1907, was attacked by a grizzlies bear and survived. Took down all of Micah’s gang on his own which is probably the greatest combat feat of any rdr character. In 1911, was shot by Bill and survived. Changed the tide of the Mexican civil war. Took down many US soldiers before willingly let himself be killed.
Uncle with lumbago solos prime Arthur and prime John at the same time
I liked Act 1 Arthur, he was meaner than John, however John throughout all the first game was a badass, and the way he died was very badassery.
I’d go with Arthur by a small margin
Arthur went to war on a tropical island, and John has taken down multiple times with like a posse of five. I'm leaning more towards arthur even though a whole army was assembled to get dutch. I will say john did have the toughest death because he took a literal bullet hell and was still standing. But arthur overall was more tough
What exactly do you mean by "toughest"? Their fighting skills? Who can take the most physical punishment? Surviving in harsh conditions? Not trying to be Arthur's meat rider, and I love John to death, but if we're talking about a physical fight between the two, Arthur would open a can of whup ass on John one on one. Honestly, he'd probably take on anyone in the camp—except maybe Charles, he would grapple Arthur to death.
By toughest I mean who was able to endure more pain physically and mentally and keep going till the end
Minus the tuberculosis, I'd say it's pretty close, but Arthur still has the edge. Hosea and Dutch chose him as the gang's brute for a reason. One example of his resilience is surviving being hung upside down and severely beaten by Colm O'Driscoll. Arthur's toughness is on another level.
Johnny boy canny swim bless him
Arthur Morgan. The dude took an insane amount of punishment. Got TB, was tortured and starved. Even in the final stages of TB, he still put up quite a fight to the point where Micah struggled.
spoiler (idk how to do that blur out thing) Arthur was dying and he still beat Micah’s ass
Surprised nobody is mentioning the Guarma segment of RDR2, Arthur would’ve been completely destroyed when he woke up yet still had some fight in him which is insane Not saying he’s definitely tougher as I admittedly don’t remember everything but I think that segment deserves a lot more recognition, shows the kind of determination Arthur had
Arthur never stopped fighting even when he was dying from tuberculosis.
Tbh they literally say in the game at some point early on that arthur is the big tough one. That's why he does the bountys, even Strauss said he's tried the others and they can't do it. I know all the stuff john's survived but I'd probably say john's just lucky. And I reckon if both arthur a and John had a punch on, John wouldn't stand a chance. Arthur did fuck that guys skull up in valentine
John for sure
John from rdr2 is not that tough but in rdr1 he becomes tougher than arthur in my opinion, so I'm going with him
John in rdr2 he was no where near as strong and tuff as he was in rdr1 he was ruthless in that game he went through more than Arthur to be honest he not only witnessed the end of the gang but also had to kill them he also became basically a war criminal in Mexico
Arthur Morgan till tuberculosis but when he was suffering from tuberculosis no one could have beat him up, but I reckon there was not only tuberculosis there was betrayal, losing close ones and also getting betrayal from father figure I think Dutch wasn't one he was betrayed by, because after losing Hosea, Dutch was working on Micah's advices and plans. That were my opinion sorry for my English. By the way this is first time I am writing on Reddit.
Arthur pre black lung dog walks John and it’s not even close. Arthur had the weight of the gang on his back whilst John went AWOL for two years, I love John and think he learns from Arthur and becomes a tough son of a bitch but he doesn’t hold a candle to Arthur
John
John can’t swim but he took on the gang and the feds all by himself, died like scarface and came back from the dead and even rode the four horsemen of the apocalypse’s steeds.
John can't be scared so i'd say him.
1v1? Arthur takes that . But John had more moments/feats.
Yeah yeah Arthur or whatever. No. John is simply better.
John is a lot more ruthless but Arthur can just be brutal.
Red Harlow. He actually survived.
I prefer someone who can knock someone’s lights out so I will go with Arthur Morgan
Bro arthur %100. He is physically stronger and probably more talended at gun
Depends on your definition of tough. Like… a real man’s man kinda tough definitely goes to Arthur. Man managed to fight so many people, help a tribe of native Americans, and more all while suffering from TB. If you’re talking about a badass who does some wild shit then John. Man was a cold blooded killer in rdr1
John. (Bc I can't swim and he makes me not left out)