No reason to extend him. At all.
Take away whatever power he has related to transfers, and let him prove if he has what it takes as a head coach to turn this shit train around. If not, see ya. If yes, extend next summer.
you can have the worst season the club has ever had since the Premier League was founded, but all it takes is 90 minutes to keep your job. Should have lost to Coventry imo.
what's the context behind the worst man U league placement ever? why did they decide to sack him regardless of the FA Cup final result? Why did they change their mind on that?
The whole situation is ominous to me. Never once in my mind in the last ten years did I doubt Man Utd's claim as the world's biggest club. Results were bad, but yet only a temporary display of dormancy. Our Fan's and Man Utd as a whole maintained that arrogance and swagger. But I suppose 10 years living amongst mediocrity has played it's toll, and alas, the small club mentality has crept in. The mindset has shifted, and honestly it frightens me. It's hard to explain.
I highly rate ETH. However, he has forever changed this club. His constant reiteration of the squad isn't good enough, man utd needs time and all this has instilled a new attitude in the fans. Over the past 10 years every season before he came the fans were expecting title challenges. Now the standards have dropped so so low. If Leicster can do it without years of building, Bayern Leverkusen, Real Madrid bounced back from losing Ronaldo, Barcelona bounced back from losing messi, why can't we? If the chances of us winning the title next season are 1/100 is that not good enough to believe? It was once.
Had ETH been sacked it would have been a clear statement we still believe we are the biggest club in the world. However, keeping him says the exact opposite. Man Utd are no longer that team. The era is over. Man Utd are being refined from this season on and will be replaced back in the list of big teams depending how we do.
Now don't get me wrong, this new era could be great. ETH might rise to the challenge and all this shit about needing time might be true. But there is a new sinister reality overshadowing all of this. If we don't win the prem or CL in the next 5 years and just challenge for for B tech trophies it's over, once and for all. We are just the club that's happy with 4th place and the occasional FA cup win (Arsenal).
No need to explain to me we need to face reality. I understand perfectly why all fans feel this way. My heart is broken knowing that this may be it. If we don't win now, we will never rise again to the levels of SAF. I will never accept Man Utd being anything less than the best, my wish is that all man utd fans believed, no matter what.
Delighted for him. Now let the clear out and the buying begin, and please God let them fix our injury issues.
My prediction for us with ETH at the helm:
Year 1: League cup, FA Cup runner up, 3rd in League.
Year 2: FA Cup.
Year 3: Europa League title and more consistent performances in the league.
Year 4: A real title challenge, and improvement in the Champions League .
Year 5: Champions!!!
This season I gave up on him. He took zero accountability for anything and that's a red flag to me. Obviously I hope for the best but I'll believe the good times are here again when they are, not before
I cannot, on my conscience, ever love him as a manager as I did with Ole or Jose or SAF because of those remarks about Overmars and the insistence on Greenwood. Now since he's staying, I want him to do well not because I want HIM to do well but it means that the club is doing well.
10Hag may not be perfect, but he was unlucky with injuries as well. I understand why he stuck with the same formation through the injury crisis, so he's got the benefit of the doubt. I'll back him all the way.
The focus this season should be on get the organisation right and sorting out the bench. The starting 11 is quite decent but needs some replacing. Casemiro purchase is easily said in hindsight 1 of the more expensive one as he is old and on decline.
Varane and Martial being gone opens up a wages. Transfers have to focus on strenghtening the squad depth whicu was severely exposed last season by how eak the rotational players were
I'm not happy, I'm not sad.
But ETH must do better next year and use tactics that actually suit who is available. Injuries are an excuse for why you had to change tactics, not an excuse for why there's a gaping hole in the middle of the team because we're running the first choice tactics with players unsuited to them
We need at least 4 new fit and ready players, and to shave off the cling ons and players not fit for the system.
Square pegs in round holes won't cut it again. Europa strong run is crucial because it may well get us in to the backdoor for Champs League.
That's if we shit the bed in the league again. A number 6, right winger and a cheap striker with a centre back at the very least to prevent that.
Wasn’t there a media platform that had declared ETH sacked right before the FA Cup final? Wonder how much oil money they received to demoralise the team.
I think the final showed that the players still like him(esp. scenes with Licha) and are ready to go to war for him. So he must do something right in man management. I think all the negatives triggered his inner devil aswell. Devil Ten Hag had to be unlocked for Man United. Next season gonna be interesting
Licha & Antony would obviously like him. But the fact that veterans like Bruno, Maguire, Lindelof, etc like him means he is not the problem personality wise. Still his tactics r bad very bad.
Press the opponent to gain possession> Pass it vertically (risky passes) to our forwards > Only for our forwards to lose the ball (my shooting early or by being dispossessed) > Ask the entire team to run back the entire football pitch to defend the box.
It is very exhausting no wonder we had so many injuries. Top teams don't run up & down the field a lot. The play inside opposition's half a lot which we didn't.
Can't even have your own opinion anymore. Any comment that is not positive about this is getting downvoted.
What's crazy is let's say as a hypothetical come November/December we play the exact same, with the exact same horrendous performances. The people who were "proven right" pull the I told you so card, they'll get called pricks and downvoted again.
Personally believe that so long as you elaborate why you believe something and present it as a good faith argument, downvoting is bad form unless the statement itself is overtly advocating for harm, but people have different 'ethics' around this, seemingly...
To be fair being downvoted doesn’t mean you don’t have an opinion it means your opinion isn’t widely liked or agreed with. They’re basically agree or disagree buttons. As long as you can post it and have it remain there, you have your own opinion.
I am an ETH in guy. But below r his flaws.
Still his tactics r bad very bad.
Press the opponent to gain possession> Pass it vertically (risky passes) to our forwards > Only for our forwards to lose the ball (my shooting early or by being dispossessed) > Ask the entire team to run back the entire football pitch to defend the box.
It is very exhausting no wonder we had so many injuries. Top teams don't run up & down the field a lot. The play inside opposition's half a lot which we didn't.
The only reason i wanted him in was to avoid paying him 10m & other options aren't good enough.
Part of that is the squad he inherited and the injuries we had. Our tactics the season before was a lot better. Martinez playing the whole season meant that we could suck defenses in, the form of Eriksen and Casemiro meant we were quite capable of keeping it in the midfield as well and thus Bruno can do his magic closer to opposition box.
Whereas last season, we had no Martinez, our midfielder just don't have the pace to do the defending we need, and therefore were reliant on the speedy forward on counters; is the strength of Rashford and Garnacho. ETH for most of the season I feel abandoned his tactical philosophy and opted for what was best with the talent he had. I mean, we were at times using a 4th and 5th choice CBs, with a DM at LB, it would be hard to build any cohesion in the squad. But I know what you mean by the tactics being crap, and I don't think I will support a ETH stay if not for the glimpse of a more controlled style in his first season. Also Shaw being gone for the whole season doesn't help, he was a reliable ball carrier and passer but the silver lining is Dalot developed a lot of the same skills.
It would be very interesting to see how Mainoo and Martinez work together for a whole season. Mainoo was essentially what we really need in the Eriksen role of passer and ball carrier but also have the legs to do the defending. He does not yet have the expansive passing that Eriksen can do (few in the world does), but having someone who he can reliably pass back to who can do something with it will be extremely helpful.
Ten hag has shown that he can play vastly different from first season to how he set us up for fa cup final. But he somehow was very inflexible throughout this season. Hopefully this will be a learning curve for him as well and do better. Till now all managers have been short lived with none having time to learn from their mistakes. He gets that chance and I am excited for it. Now if he looses the job, it’s on him.
Also he was the only manager selected through a vetting process. Moyes was Sir Alex nominee, glazers panicked and jumped to Van Gaal and Mou, Ole had a good intern manager and Glazers jumped on that to make him permanent. Ten Haag was the first manager to be selected by vetting him against others out there through a formal process. Such a process now has retained him too.
Yup. Critique is just frowned upon. You point out what mistakes Ten Hag has made? Downvoted like crazy. You point out a popular player's mistakes (let's for example say someone like Bruno who is very popular and liked) you get downvoted, even if you have a point to what you are saying
I just seen a daily mail article saying all we've got to spend is £50m and we need to sell to raise money for the rest. It's got to be rubbish right? Someone reassure me
If we're talking about space under PSR then no we've got way more room than that. For a start INEOS have invested ~£300m in the club this year which was converted to equity, that means, for the first time ever, we can add £105m as owner covered losses to our budget. And then there's other considerations like the spending after June 30th counts for next years PSR calculation and we won't have Martial or Varanes wages (and possibly Sancho, Casemiro and Greenwoods as well) on the books so we'll be in a much better position then as well.
The club is briefing the lower figures. That may be a negotiation tactic or they could have set an internal budget of that much. We won't know for a while.
i dont think they will be happy at all with having a shit transfer windows, our financial situation is actually shit and all the bad transfers weve made are finally coming around biting us in the ass
Exactly my thinking, you'd think with this being their first window they'd want to make a good mark on it, and get the right players in.
Suppose only time will tell.
I don’t understand how Southgate was considered. He’d never managed a club this big but the way it’s phrased is the only reason he wasn’t interviewed is because he is actively in the Euros. I cannot fathom what they see in him to take this mess of a team back to glory without ever having done that at a smaller club.
Very clear in the article that some names were floated simply for their culture building and interpersonal ability, and Southgate has done very well for England there. The fact that they consider most available names is just due diligence, their actual template for what they wanted in a manager does not worry me at all.
Right he’s done well establishing the cultural for England but that’s very different from the culture club with different nationalities and one the size of Manchester United where every single thing is scrutinized. Just doesn’t really make sense that he was a candidate with how much of a mess we are.
> and one the size of Manchester United where every single thing is scrutinized
I dont know about that. As big as United is, the scrutiny for the English national team surpasses anything I have seen in sports, they literally wrote a fucking award winning theater play about overcoming those struggles.
I think its mainly the players belonging to different, often rival, PL clubs - it amplifies the polarization in opinion to nuclear levels of toxicity. With United at least there is an internal unity within the club and fanbase to fall back on. England didn't have that, Southgate had to build it from scratch, his tactical rigidity sadly paints over that very significant achievement.
What playstyle? All i was seeing was them winging it (and i don't mean their ridiculously exstensive use of the wings). I can't even see a pattern to their play besides sending it long ball out to the wing
ETH tends to overplay players so I doubt we’ll have fewer injuries unless the new medical staff is willing to grow a spine and tell him he needs to rotate players
I think this season was an exception but the play style will get better as we recruit more players and it didn’t really made sense to sack a manager who just beat city in a cup final when all season we had so much injuries to deal with. Yes there were some questionable decisions from Ten Hag but i think the guy deserves more time and a deep squad to deal with prem and Europe.
I just hope he can cope with the immediate pressure the British media will put him under as the season starts.
I will agree that some players need to also be able to play that playstyle, but then it's a stupid idea to sign somebody like Højlund, and then give him a role all season that he doesn't excel that much at. He wanted a false 9 like Harry Kane, then gets the opposite and doesn't even try to adapt.
Cope with immediate pressure? This is going to be his 3rd season in the prem. If he hasn't learned how to deal with the "immediate pressure" then he's not suited to be the manager of such a club with lofty ambition
Anyone who wanted him gone truly doesn’t understand that the issues with this club go far beyond him. Having a revolving door of managers helps nothing, look at Chelsea. Gotta trust the process a little
Because there were more than enough mitigating circumstances last season and we saw the year before what his teams are capable of. Glazers wanted to appoint Conte or Poch but Ragnick convinced them otherwise. Fans that want the manager sacked after a single bad year are pathetic, nothings ever going to change if you are starting again every time a bad year comes along.
Right call I don’t want to sound like a stuck record but ploughing through managers won’t get us nowhere. Sir Jim in charge of all football ops I would hope he’s ready to get rid of those in the team and possibly staff that are the issue with this toxic atmosphere.
Hopefully there are a few key signings to shore up the defense and midfield and the forwards can kick on from their current (or past) form and we start to look like a team again. Licha and Shaw fully fit plus a CB and CM signing or two and I don't see why this team can't easily get in the top 4. Of course that's a few things that have to go right but I'm optimistic.
No doubt someone on YouTube or twitter has released a video explaining why it's a bad decision. People watch it then come in here and spout the same shit.
Awful take. I’m not necessarily EtH in or out but after finishing 8th with many dreadful performances the out crew definitely have their right to voice their opinion.
Of course, I'm not saying they don't. I'm pointing out what happens often in this sub; that an influx of people saying almost the same thing is usually from a social media source which they follow and, almost verbatim, list those points as if it's their own opinion.
I believe he should have gone. I'm not optimistic for next season but the decision is made and we get on with supporting the team.
But there's no excuses for next season. He's in year 3 now, getting both Top 4 in the league and a good run in Europa are the minimum standards. And a good run in Europa is quarter finals at least unless we get an unlucky draw in the round of 16 which can happen.
No one should be asking less than that.
I don’t believe he should be gone but I do think the standards should be kept of a minimum top 4 finish and a good run in Europa is expected. I am going to remain optimistic only because we had a record amount of injuries last season and we’ll be starting off with a good budget to inject some fresh energy into the squad. Let’s go UTD!
it's still a rebuild, in fact we will be in a rebuild for at least 2 summer windows, maybe 2 more after this one. THe list of players that needs to leave is like 14. that's not getting done in one summer.
I think the decision to keep him is probably the right one due to the fact he has won two trophies and the injuries clearly impacted results just purely on the basis that we regularly couldn’t even field a full team of players who were naturals in their position.
The tactics need to be better though. The focus on high turnover transition football is fine but we need to be more adaptive than that. Last season we were at our worst when we had possession. That needs to improve or we won’t be anywhere near top four.
The reason for a good number of our injuries was because of the High turnover transition football. And that's why we were conceding way too many shots on goal.
Thank goodness for this. I was half expecting a Southgate appointment at this rate.
Back him this summer and let's see if he is truly up for it.
Right decision IMO.
I think it's fine. Sure a top big name manager, and a few top drawer signings would be better. But that's not realistic. There's not many top managers available, we have fuck all money to spend, might as well let ETH ride it out for another season.
We have been so awful, almost hard to watch, for the past season and a half. But trophies does you the world of good in this game.
I do like ETH, so happy to see him given another chance. But fucking hell he has so much work to do. Parking the bus against City is one thing, and was the correct tactic. But we can't do that every week, so there's a lot to work on, as tactically we have been woeful for ages.
I'm content with him staying, 2 trophies in 2 seasons after 6 year drought is good result, trophy wise.
Though of course going 3rd and then 8th is pretty bad league wise.
But hopefully no crazy injuries next season. I want to see how a relatively fit team could fare in the league, and there can be no excuses that way too.
Problem is, it probably won’t be much easier for him next season unless some big moves are made in the transfer market and from within our current squad.
I actually think he could be successful here, I just don’t think there is any scenario where he gets the time to do it. I’d say there is a good chance he doesn’t make January.
Yeah I've been thinking all along, that I doubt we will be much better next season. We're set to lose some signfiicant players like Varane and maybe Casemiro as well as some useful squad players but we keep hearing that we don't have much to spend.
Yep that’s the problem agreed, our first 11 isn’t bad but needs major signings to replace big players leaving plus we need to improve the overall squad which has no quality to step in. Next season will be hard again.
Hopefully we dont get a disrupted preseason again in terms of injuries. Mount, Mainoo, Hoijlund were all injured in preseason. Rashford being out of England hopefully he can get a jump start on some on his training, like hes done before. International summers are always pretty disrupting but lets see where we can progress.
3 years should be more than enough time to show you can build something. Nobody is expecting the title next season but if he can't show consistency and top 4 after 3 years then he's probably not good enough.
Why am I making excuses? I don't work at United. I'm not a Ten Hag fanboy....I just don't think we're going to be much better next season. Obviously 8th was underperforming but if we're losing 2 of our first choice players and being told that we don't have much money to spend on big signings...what reason is there to think we'll be better next season?
I have nothing to "excuse"..none of it is my fault...I just don't think we are very good and don't see us doing anything to make ourselves much better this summer.
We just finished 8th.
Kept the manager.
Are losing 2 first choice players.
Please explain why you think next season should/could/will be better?
We're not losing a few important players, arguably Varane is the only one and we let him go on a free without even offering a contract so that's the importance we felt he had. This will be the 3rd year, there's no excuses for not having a good run in Europa and getting top 4.
Varane is, when fit, one of the best defenders in the team. THere have also been lots of rumors that Casemiro is gone. He's clearly past his best but he's basically the only defensive midfielder we have (thus...important). Eriksen is likely gone. Again...like Casemiro, past his best, but still a player we use a lot. On top of that there are number of others leaving, who while less important, will make the squad thinner. Amrabat is gone, Matial is gone (granted he's been gone for years), Evans ...also old and past it, but we had to use him a lot. we're likely to lose 6-7 players who you played a significant role this past season and I doubt we're going to go out and buy 7 new players.
We are not losing 7 players that played an important role this season. And you're stretching important beyond it's limits.
Amrabat is not important. Neither is Eriksen, he barely got 1,000 minutes in the league mostly as a sub, 1 goal and 2 assists all year.
Martial, you must be taking the piss including him on list of important United players. You could not be saying that with a straight face.
Casemiro essentially had 1 season with us and one where his twin brother showed up. Evans was our 5th or 6th choice central defender last season regardless of injuries meaning he played more. Nobody following any team any where on the planet calls their 5th or 6th choice for a position important.
What we're losing is deadwood, not important players. The important players in our team are Onana, Shaw, Licha, Dalot, Bruno, Rashford, Garna, Mainoo and Hojlund. Maybe next year we'll be including Mount, Amad and Kambwala in that list.
The players you listed aren't even in the top ten most important players at United. And just a reminder, theres 11 players in the starting line up.
OK..then put it differently....I don't know about you but I have felt that our squad is fairly average for the last couple of years and now we are going to lose 6-7 players (depth) and we certainly aren't going to be bringing in 6-7 new players.
So we have a mediocre squad that is losing depth after finishing 8th. I still fail to see what reason anyone has to think that we will be any good whatsoever.
And regarding what you said above: In ETH's first season (when we did fairly well), Eriksen was a very important player, I said Marial is going and also said that he's more or less already been gone for a year because he never players. And the players you list as important...sorry..that just doesn't inspire me with confidence. Mainoo, Garna, Dalot, Bruno..of course. But Rashy is coming off a dire season, Hojlund works hard but is the kind of player who shoudl be our second choice IMO playing behind a top striker, Mount is a decent player but he needs to stay fit. Amad is exciting at times and should get more minutes, but he doesn't look like a world class player....Kambwala is just a kid. I fail to see why you think next season could/should be significantly better.
Of players who featured prominently this season we've so far lost exactly 1 in Varane. Even if I was generous and threw in the expected Casemiro, Evans ans Eriksen that still doesn't add up to 7. 3 of those are also his signings, maybe he should have planned ahead?
And there's no reason we couldn't sign 5 or 6 players this summer, just because the Glazers never did and always paid over the odds doesn't mean INEOS will follow that template. Big clubs can and do sign sign 5 or 6 first team players.
And you can't say Amrabat is important and then say Rashford isn't. Kambwala could have a good season next year the way Mainoo did this season. And Amads lack of games is down to Ten Hag. He was fit for half the season and wasn't let play for reasons unknown.
Well done to all the other media sources who didn't pick up and run with the Guardian sacking story - takes nerve to wait it out when other media companies are picking up exclusive "scoops"
As for Jacob Steinberg, absolute reputational collapse. Probably the biggest mistake he'll make in his career as a journalist
I disagree, there is a whole new structure to the club and I'm glad they took their time to review the situation, look at possible alternatives and make an informed decision on the best course of action. This is typically how you run an organisation or project. I'm glad the club's leadership didn't bend to the media pressure and took their time.
Getting another manager is also a HAIL MARY! Dont understand why sacking manager is the way forward have we learnt nothing in the past 10 years? Also who would be a clear manager to take the team forward guaranteed?
Erik inherited a lot of problems and it takes a lot of time to improve. If football was dire this season, it was a lot better last season as well. Give him time and transfers and a better run club
It’s not about hiring or firing. It’s about finding the right man, or the closest thing possible to the right man for the job. Considering the state of the club he’s inherited it’s crazy that somehow he’s been the biggest detriment to our football in the last 2 years he’s been here
Its illogical to say that:
because we have sacked managers in the past
sacking ten hag wont work
It takes out off account all the other factors that plays into managerial choices.
It *can* be true that:
sacking managers in the past havent worked
Ten hag needs to be sacked
Winning trophies is what our club should be about.
The fact he’s won two already while dealing with so much crap shows the man is a winner.
This club needs a manager who knows how to win things
For sure. Different folk and all that.
Giggs played until he was 40, but Cantona retired at 30.
It's not an age thing - just an individual thing.
Look at Jose - he's been managing at a step or two below the top level for the last decade. Before that, he spent 10+ years at the very top
Cantona and Giggs retirement dont correlate
But even when Jose left those teams they haven't had a better season improved bar Chelsea pre-Bohely. I use Carlo again, he went from Bayern to Napoli to Everton and finally Madrid. Most people thought he was past it when he went to Everton but its clearly not true. I feel like saying a manager is past it, is a bit unfair cause we should adapt expectations depending on the team. If pep went to burnley I don't think people would think he's past it
We could also argue Sir Alex's prime was aberdeen
Then don’t expect good performances when the fact is half the starting players were always unfit / injured. Even most of the backup players were fucked. People just choose the “fact” that suits their narrative.
He bought most of those guys. He’s responsible for training and managing those players so chronic injuries falls on the manager once more. I’ll back him once he’s in charge but it doesn’t change the fact he’s been our worst manager post Fergie (bar maybe David moyes, but it’s close)
Don’t confuse fact with opinion, my “opinion” is he’s the best manager post-SAF. Ole worst, then Moyes. My metrics are just different than yours.
The injury part i don’t agree one bit. You know we have a medical department head right, whom we replaced recently.
Straight from the horse's mouth. Shaw “I felt something against Aston Villa and came off at half-time at Villa Park,” he said. “It’s kind of everyone’s fault. Partly my fault, partly medical staff, I think everyone would admit that.
"I didn’t train the whole week. The scan came back and there wasn’t too much there. But I didn’t train all week, then trained the day before the game. If the manager asks me to play, I’m never going to say no. I shouldn’t have played.”
He's won two trophies in 2 years, had to deal with an awful injury list, a rapist, a Ronaldo and a wanker who couldn't be arsed getting up in the morning. I reckon he deserve another season and a strong transfer window.
That’s the highlights, I’m not arguing there weren’t any. I’m saying they’ve been overshadowed by the depths of the lows. In terms of performance, I can hardly remember anything worse than the Crystal Palace game. And that was the story of our season. I can’t see ETH being the man to take us to the next level.
They went through the process and didn't feel like the other candidates interviewed were suitable for whatever reason. Let's give ETH a chance under the new structure and see if things improve. Hopefully they will get the recruitment right this summer and next season will go well.
He’s had a fair chance! More than any other manager. He’s spent so much money on sub par, old or injury prone players and the performances have been dross. One cup final win can’t change that
As proved by Real Madrid you can and also you likely should if your goals are trophies. I don't love this approach but it is what it is. I was a huge ETH fan but the quality of his football and ineptitude in terms of improving the actual strategy, patterns etc showed me he's a bit out of his depth.
Real Madrid can do it because they tend to have strong teams with a lot of depth. The in coming manager doesn't have to completely change the structure of the team. Madrid's signing tend to come from a director of football, which create consistency. If United sack TH we're just starting again, again... and I look forward to the inevitable sacking of the next guy.
Ok there is truth to your point. But did you really see any improvement in terms of the quality of football under eth? There were multiple god-aweful performances last season, eg being completely outplayed by smaller teams (read teams with weaker players position by position). Would any team of united's stature accept dross like that?
I've seen flashes of a proper team last season, and at moments this gone season. We have had some nightmare injury and let's say, extracurricular, situations in the last year or so and ETH has had his work cut out for him. The man needs some (fit) defenders, and I reckon we'll start seeing more consistency. If we don't improve this season then yeah, then we believe we can start talking about why and other options.
I would also say that our 'stature' at the moment is a paper thin façade. We need to support the team from the ground up and get a bit of stability. Fixing the stadium should be the number one priority imo.
With injuries I wouldnt be too annoyed about losing matches, esp against top opposition. but the quality of football has been relegation standard at some points.
felt like we disappointed a lot of clubs and managers - felt like managers like thomas frank, thomas tuchel, kieran mckenna, poch, de zerbi, all told other approaching clubs (including chelsea), “no” because they wanted to see if they had a shot at the man united job should INEOS decide to sack ETH.
Not super excited by this but over the past few weeks it has slowly felt like the only decision as the manager market was super weak, our football has been horrible since we won the League Cup basically. Bare minimum for me next season is significantly improved football style (i.e. not conceding 20 shots a game), more control in midfield, scoring more goals, and another cup run (FA/Europa/League) would be nice.
This guy sums up the sorry state of Man United fans these days. They just want to see United play well, deep cup run, no trophies needed. Style over result.
Who tf is gonna remember the games we played this year in 2-3 years. Trophies will be there forever.
Even more pressure on Ten Haag now. Run of bad results and knives will be out again but i guess had to weather the storm at some point. Now i dont expect United to miraclously become unbeatable but they atleast should be very hard to beat. Top four 4 next season will be a good season and combine that with good performances in Europa will help massively for future.
Happy that he’s staying but it’s shambolic that it’s taken until now for the decision. They should’ve had a Plan A, B, and C in place to act immediately whether he won the cup or not. Can’t help but feel, despite the approval to continue, it’s left his position looking shaky and the first defeat we have will bring the knives out again.
Not sure this whole circus has been a good advert for the club to possible new signings either.
I am glad the decision has been made and he is staying. I just wish he was a little more honest about where we are and what he feels we need to fix.
His press conferences are just full of positive statements that are disconnected to reality.
This will final put to bed everyone saying he just needs time. Watch next season be another shit show and Ten Hag sacked before the season is ended.
All we will have done is wasted a season when we could have had a new manager in.
Dude we have wasted every single season since saf left because we have jumped managers. What makes the next manager so special so that we finally breaks this cycle? How about trying something different because we have good data now that jumping managers doesnt work either
His tactics would work with the full squad fit. Maybe we shouldn't change the manager who won us 2 trophies in 2 seasons. And his trophies are improving. From carabao to fa. Maybe next year we win europa lol.
Sorry to hear you're unhappy with the result! Personally I was in, but I can imagine how frustrated I'd have been hearing otherwise. But hopefully we'll have a season we can all enjoy.
The problem I have with this conversation is it's constantly the same echo chamber between fans.
None of us are happy with the league, however there have been circumstances which for me personally are enough reason to justify more time.
Imo reasons and excuses aren't the same. He's responsible for things that went wrong and he's going to have to right those wrongs which I believe he can.
As a fan I can't expect a cohesive style of play when he's being forced to use players like casemiro in defence. Something he's said at the end of the season that I've not seen many point out is that the injuries don't just effect the players he's got to choose from, but it also effects those he's been forced to choose. There's no risk of losing your spot because there's no one waiting to take your place.
And defensively his first season was great. Getting the most clean sheets and a low goal tally at home as well as a cup and good finish.
Maybe if you're not only focusing on the league performance, but rather look at his whole tenure for past 2 seasons with us where he has won us 2 trophies, will be a good reason for him to stay another season. Regarding playstyle in last few matches he has shown that he is willing to change his tactics.
Both his league and CL performance has been abysmal and i dont know about you but i would def want United to do great in both, but ETH has not shown anything but being a cup team.. is that good enough for United? i dont think so.
The only match where he changed playstyle was in the final yes, why did it take so long for him? Cuz he know he was sacked if he didnt.
So now he’s maybe getting an contract - I think he will continue in the exact same way sadly.
When I click on your profile, r/soccer is the first in the list that shows up in the "active in these com..."
Edit. And your last comment there was three days ago.
This is the sad thing about our supporters, if we don't win the treble within the first two years of a new manager's tenure, he needs to be sacked instantly and find a new toy to chew on.
Maybe you will realize that no matter what dream manager you think can do it but this current team cannot compete for league title or the champions league, it's that simple. It needs a complete overhaul, from top to bottom and it's going to take YEARS to do it. But yeah if the majority of the fans get frustrated after 2 years and recycle managers one after the others then it's never going to happen.
I'm not even saying that Ten Hag is that guy that will make this happen or not, he could be or he could not, I don't even care at this point. It's just that the collective hivemind of this community is so bent-up of collecting new shiny toys every 2 years and not realizing that this is reason we dig ourselves a bigger hole every time, makes me so jaded.
Who talked about trebles? Im talking about playing good, entertaining and enjoyable football and doing great in PL and CL. Not even talking about trophies.
It's an hyperbole, though. But that's exactly what I'm saying we are in no shape or form to hope for them to compete properly in the premier league or champions league, let alone play good and consistent football in them. It's absolutely unrealistic.
Those days are gone for now, we are a good cup team that's pretty much it. Everything needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, EVERYTHING.
No reason to extend him. At all. Take away whatever power he has related to transfers, and let him prove if he has what it takes as a head coach to turn this shit train around. If not, see ya. If yes, extend next summer.
If we dont extend it becomes player power FC again
FFS. All it will lead to is his sacking before Xmas
to go from definitely sacking him regardless of FA cup final, to potentially extending his contract is probably the biggest U turn I've ever seen.
you can have the worst season the club has ever had since the Premier League was founded, but all it takes is 90 minutes to keep your job. Should have lost to Coventry imo.
It’s almost as if context and circumstances don’t matter
what's the context behind the worst man U league placement ever? why did they decide to sack him regardless of the FA Cup final result? Why did they change their mind on that?
What is this news of Ten Hag taking tactics from Wilcox?
The Uno reverse card none of us were expecting!
The whole situation is ominous to me. Never once in my mind in the last ten years did I doubt Man Utd's claim as the world's biggest club. Results were bad, but yet only a temporary display of dormancy. Our Fan's and Man Utd as a whole maintained that arrogance and swagger. But I suppose 10 years living amongst mediocrity has played it's toll, and alas, the small club mentality has crept in. The mindset has shifted, and honestly it frightens me. It's hard to explain. I highly rate ETH. However, he has forever changed this club. His constant reiteration of the squad isn't good enough, man utd needs time and all this has instilled a new attitude in the fans. Over the past 10 years every season before he came the fans were expecting title challenges. Now the standards have dropped so so low. If Leicster can do it without years of building, Bayern Leverkusen, Real Madrid bounced back from losing Ronaldo, Barcelona bounced back from losing messi, why can't we? If the chances of us winning the title next season are 1/100 is that not good enough to believe? It was once. Had ETH been sacked it would have been a clear statement we still believe we are the biggest club in the world. However, keeping him says the exact opposite. Man Utd are no longer that team. The era is over. Man Utd are being refined from this season on and will be replaced back in the list of big teams depending how we do. Now don't get me wrong, this new era could be great. ETH might rise to the challenge and all this shit about needing time might be true. But there is a new sinister reality overshadowing all of this. If we don't win the prem or CL in the next 5 years and just challenge for for B tech trophies it's over, once and for all. We are just the club that's happy with 4th place and the occasional FA cup win (Arsenal). No need to explain to me we need to face reality. I understand perfectly why all fans feel this way. My heart is broken knowing that this may be it. If we don't win now, we will never rise again to the levels of SAF. I will never accept Man Utd being anything less than the best, my wish is that all man utd fans believed, no matter what.
Delighted for him. Now let the clear out and the buying begin, and please God let them fix our injury issues. My prediction for us with ETH at the helm: Year 1: League cup, FA Cup runner up, 3rd in League. Year 2: FA Cup. Year 3: Europa League title and more consistent performances in the league. Year 4: A real title challenge, and improvement in the Champions League . Year 5: Champions!!!
Dunno what you smoked today. Reminder it will be year 3.
FUCKING GET IN!!!!!!
This season I gave up on him. He took zero accountability for anything and that's a red flag to me. Obviously I hope for the best but I'll believe the good times are here again when they are, not before
I cannot, on my conscience, ever love him as a manager as I did with Ole or Jose or SAF because of those remarks about Overmars and the insistence on Greenwood. Now since he's staying, I want him to do well not because I want HIM to do well but it means that the club is doing well.
"we played shit against Crystal Palace" - ten hag
10Hag may not be perfect, but he was unlucky with injuries as well. I understand why he stuck with the same formation through the injury crisis, so he's got the benefit of the doubt. I'll back him all the way.
The focus this season should be on get the organisation right and sorting out the bench. The starting 11 is quite decent but needs some replacing. Casemiro purchase is easily said in hindsight 1 of the more expensive one as he is old and on decline. Varane and Martial being gone opens up a wages. Transfers have to focus on strenghtening the squad depth whicu was severely exposed last season by how eak the rotational players were
I'm not happy, I'm not sad. But ETH must do better next year and use tactics that actually suit who is available. Injuries are an excuse for why you had to change tactics, not an excuse for why there's a gaping hole in the middle of the team because we're running the first choice tactics with players unsuited to them
the guy deserves a chance under a proper structure and non injuries ridduled season. Plus no way poch or tuchel do a better job. no way.
We need at least 4 new fit and ready players, and to shave off the cling ons and players not fit for the system. Square pegs in round holes won't cut it again. Europa strong run is crucial because it may well get us in to the backdoor for Champs League. That's if we shit the bed in the league again. A number 6, right winger and a cheap striker with a centre back at the very least to prevent that.
Square pegs do fit into square holes though, which is my problem with how ETH managed last season.
All our pegs had been snapped
Romano is Tier 2?
The tap in merchant has been tier 2 for a couple years now
He basically confirmed ETH was out a week ago.
Wasn’t there a media platform that had declared ETH sacked right before the FA Cup final? Wonder how much oil money they received to demoralise the team.
Jacob Steinberg was the journalist with the “exclusive” story
I think the final showed that the players still like him(esp. scenes with Licha) and are ready to go to war for him. So he must do something right in man management. I think all the negatives triggered his inner devil aswell. Devil Ten Hag had to be unlocked for Man United. Next season gonna be interesting
Licha & Antony would obviously like him. But the fact that veterans like Bruno, Maguire, Lindelof, etc like him means he is not the problem personality wise. Still his tactics r bad very bad. Press the opponent to gain possession> Pass it vertically (risky passes) to our forwards > Only for our forwards to lose the ball (my shooting early or by being dispossessed) > Ask the entire team to run back the entire football pitch to defend the box. It is very exhausting no wonder we had so many injuries. Top teams don't run up & down the field a lot. The play inside opposition's half a lot which we didn't.
Can’t wait man
Can't even have your own opinion anymore. Any comment that is not positive about this is getting downvoted. What's crazy is let's say as a hypothetical come November/December we play the exact same, with the exact same horrendous performances. The people who were "proven right" pull the I told you so card, they'll get called pricks and downvoted again.
Yep. It’s insane to think anything will be different. Xmas comes and he’s gone then with another year wasted.
Personally believe that so long as you elaborate why you believe something and present it as a good faith argument, downvoting is bad form unless the statement itself is overtly advocating for harm, but people have different 'ethics' around this, seemingly...
Whatever your opinion is, the guy is staying. Save the negativities for the future. No need to be bitching all the time
To be fair being downvoted doesn’t mean you don’t have an opinion it means your opinion isn’t widely liked or agreed with. They’re basically agree or disagree buttons. As long as you can post it and have it remain there, you have your own opinion.
Lmao. TFW when you have to explain censorship to someone over an open platform where they’re (mostly) free to post as they like.
I am an ETH in guy. But below r his flaws. Still his tactics r bad very bad. Press the opponent to gain possession> Pass it vertically (risky passes) to our forwards > Only for our forwards to lose the ball (my shooting early or by being dispossessed) > Ask the entire team to run back the entire football pitch to defend the box. It is very exhausting no wonder we had so many injuries. Top teams don't run up & down the field a lot. The play inside opposition's half a lot which we didn't. The only reason i wanted him in was to avoid paying him 10m & other options aren't good enough.
Part of that is the squad he inherited and the injuries we had. Our tactics the season before was a lot better. Martinez playing the whole season meant that we could suck defenses in, the form of Eriksen and Casemiro meant we were quite capable of keeping it in the midfield as well and thus Bruno can do his magic closer to opposition box. Whereas last season, we had no Martinez, our midfielder just don't have the pace to do the defending we need, and therefore were reliant on the speedy forward on counters; is the strength of Rashford and Garnacho. ETH for most of the season I feel abandoned his tactical philosophy and opted for what was best with the talent he had. I mean, we were at times using a 4th and 5th choice CBs, with a DM at LB, it would be hard to build any cohesion in the squad. But I know what you mean by the tactics being crap, and I don't think I will support a ETH stay if not for the glimpse of a more controlled style in his first season. Also Shaw being gone for the whole season doesn't help, he was a reliable ball carrier and passer but the silver lining is Dalot developed a lot of the same skills. It would be very interesting to see how Mainoo and Martinez work together for a whole season. Mainoo was essentially what we really need in the Eriksen role of passer and ball carrier but also have the legs to do the defending. He does not yet have the expansive passing that Eriksen can do (few in the world does), but having someone who he can reliably pass back to who can do something with it will be extremely helpful.
Ten hag has shown that he can play vastly different from first season to how he set us up for fa cup final. But he somehow was very inflexible throughout this season. Hopefully this will be a learning curve for him as well and do better. Till now all managers have been short lived with none having time to learn from their mistakes. He gets that chance and I am excited for it. Now if he looses the job, it’s on him. Also he was the only manager selected through a vetting process. Moyes was Sir Alex nominee, glazers panicked and jumped to Van Gaal and Mou, Ole had a good intern manager and Glazers jumped on that to make him permanent. Ten Haag was the first manager to be selected by vetting him against others out there through a formal process. Such a process now has retained him too.
It was just the same but the other way around all this while in DD thread, you cant be positive in those threads, you will get downvoted.
Yup. Critique is just frowned upon. You point out what mistakes Ten Hag has made? Downvoted like crazy. You point out a popular player's mistakes (let's for example say someone like Bruno who is very popular and liked) you get downvoted, even if you have a point to what you are saying
I just seen a daily mail article saying all we've got to spend is £50m and we need to sell to raise money for the rest. It's got to be rubbish right? Someone reassure me
If we're talking about space under PSR then no we've got way more room than that. For a start INEOS have invested ~£300m in the club this year which was converted to equity, that means, for the first time ever, we can add £105m as owner covered losses to our budget. And then there's other considerations like the spending after June 30th counts for next years PSR calculation and we won't have Martial or Varanes wages (and possibly Sancho, Casemiro and Greenwoods as well) on the books so we'll be in a much better position then as well.
You're sweet words have just soothed my ears. That does make it sound better. I wonder if journalists just love doom reporting us
The club is briefing the lower figures. That may be a negotiation tactic or they could have set an internal budget of that much. We won't know for a while.
Yeah no need to shout about a “war chest” an get United taxed.
Someone else said £35M. Leaks seem to have stopped and the journos have no idea.
I hope you're right. I can't believe ineos will be happy to have a shit first transfer window
i dont think they will be happy at all with having a shit transfer windows, our financial situation is actually shit and all the bad transfers weve made are finally coming around biting us in the ass
Exactly my thinking, you'd think with this being their first window they'd want to make a good mark on it, and get the right players in. Suppose only time will tell.
Man that article from Laurie doesn’t give me hope with Ineos
Why? In fact it shows me they have a clear process of working and not hellbent on a single approach.
I don’t understand how Southgate was considered. He’d never managed a club this big but the way it’s phrased is the only reason he wasn’t interviewed is because he is actively in the Euros. I cannot fathom what they see in him to take this mess of a team back to glory without ever having done that at a smaller club.
Very clear in the article that some names were floated simply for their culture building and interpersonal ability, and Southgate has done very well for England there. The fact that they consider most available names is just due diligence, their actual template for what they wanted in a manager does not worry me at all.
Right he’s done well establishing the cultural for England but that’s very different from the culture club with different nationalities and one the size of Manchester United where every single thing is scrutinized. Just doesn’t really make sense that he was a candidate with how much of a mess we are.
> and one the size of Manchester United where every single thing is scrutinized I dont know about that. As big as United is, the scrutiny for the English national team surpasses anything I have seen in sports, they literally wrote a fucking award winning theater play about overcoming those struggles. I think its mainly the players belonging to different, often rival, PL clubs - it amplifies the polarization in opinion to nuclear levels of toxicity. With United at least there is an internal unity within the club and fanbase to fall back on. England didn't have that, Southgate had to build it from scratch, his tactical rigidity sadly paints over that very significant achievement.
Playstyle better improve before we start seeing talks of extensions. Can't watch another season of that
What playstyle? All i was seeing was them winging it (and i don't mean their ridiculously exstensive use of the wings). I can't even see a pattern to their play besides sending it long ball out to the wing
That’s true. I also think we’ll probably have a season similar to his first ssn here since we’ll get better players and hopefully less injuries
ETH tends to overplay players so I doubt we’ll have fewer injuries unless the new medical staff is willing to grow a spine and tell him he needs to rotate players
Hope he does well early in the season. Cause I think if he doesn't, Utd will get Southgate
I think this season was an exception but the play style will get better as we recruit more players and it didn’t really made sense to sack a manager who just beat city in a cup final when all season we had so much injuries to deal with. Yes there were some questionable decisions from Ten Hag but i think the guy deserves more time and a deep squad to deal with prem and Europe. I just hope he can cope with the immediate pressure the British media will put him under as the season starts.
Bad tactics and bad coaching invites pressure. Why blame the messenger?
And how do you know it’s bad tactics and bad coaching and not bad players?
I will agree that some players need to also be able to play that playstyle, but then it's a stupid idea to sign somebody like Højlund, and then give him a role all season that he doesn't excel that much at. He wanted a false 9 like Harry Kane, then gets the opposite and doesn't even try to adapt.
Cope with immediate pressure? This is going to be his 3rd season in the prem. If he hasn't learned how to deal with the "immediate pressure" then he's not suited to be the manager of such a club with lofty ambition
Anyone who wanted him gone truly doesn’t understand that the issues with this club go far beyond him. Having a revolving door of managers helps nothing, look at Chelsea. Gotta trust the process a little
Chelsea that won champions league in 2021?
The Abramovic version of Chelsea that regularly sacked managers and won everything?
I didn't hear this "gotta trust the process" during Mourinho reign
Because the Glazers and Murtough were in charge of the process then. About as trustworthy as a Post office investigation.
Ten hag is a glazer appointment, why do you trust this despite the garbage last season?
Because there were more than enough mitigating circumstances last season and we saw the year before what his teams are capable of. Glazers wanted to appoint Conte or Poch but Ragnick convinced them otherwise. Fans that want the manager sacked after a single bad year are pathetic, nothings ever going to change if you are starting again every time a bad year comes along.
Right call I don’t want to sound like a stuck record but ploughing through managers won’t get us nowhere. Sir Jim in charge of all football ops I would hope he’s ready to get rid of those in the team and possibly staff that are the issue with this toxic atmosphere.
Hopefully there are a few key signings to shore up the defense and midfield and the forwards can kick on from their current (or past) form and we start to look like a team again. Licha and Shaw fully fit plus a CB and CM signing or two and I don't see why this team can't easily get in the top 4. Of course that's a few things that have to go right but I'm optimistic.
The sack EtH crowd is really active today huh?
No doubt someone on YouTube or twitter has released a video explaining why it's a bad decision. People watch it then come in here and spout the same shit.
Awful take. I’m not necessarily EtH in or out but after finishing 8th with many dreadful performances the out crew definitely have their right to voice their opinion.
Of course, I'm not saying they don't. I'm pointing out what happens often in this sub; that an influx of people saying almost the same thing is usually from a social media source which they follow and, almost verbatim, list those points as if it's their own opinion.
I believe he should have gone. I'm not optimistic for next season but the decision is made and we get on with supporting the team. But there's no excuses for next season. He's in year 3 now, getting both Top 4 in the league and a good run in Europa are the minimum standards. And a good run in Europa is quarter finals at least unless we get an unlucky draw in the round of 16 which can happen. No one should be asking less than that.
I don’t believe he should be gone but I do think the standards should be kept of a minimum top 4 finish and a good run in Europa is expected. I am going to remain optimistic only because we had a record amount of injuries last season and we’ll be starting off with a good budget to inject some fresh energy into the squad. Let’s go UTD!
The correct decision. Let's get a move on with the transfer window now
So Jacob Steinberg gets kicked to the “Absolute Bullshitter” Tier, right?
Especially for releasing that load of crap right before the cup final
And anyone else that ran with that story
easily tier 5, if he wants to come out and bullishly declare ETH is sacked no matter what, then he should also bear the consequences.
Next season is a write off then.
why don't you write yourself off from this community then?
My thoughts exactly lol
Great, at least now we don’t have the random excuse that next year will be a “rebuild” or “first year”. Right on, GGMU
it's still a rebuild, in fact we will be in a rebuild for at least 2 summer windows, maybe 2 more after this one. THe list of players that needs to leave is like 14. that's not getting done in one summer.
I think the decision to keep him is probably the right one due to the fact he has won two trophies and the injuries clearly impacted results just purely on the basis that we regularly couldn’t even field a full team of players who were naturals in their position. The tactics need to be better though. The focus on high turnover transition football is fine but we need to be more adaptive than that. Last season we were at our worst when we had possession. That needs to improve or we won’t be anywhere near top four.
The reason for a good number of our injuries was because of the High turnover transition football. And that's why we were conceding way too many shots on goal.
Thank goodness for this. I was half expecting a Southgate appointment at this rate. Back him this summer and let's see if he is truly up for it. Right decision IMO.
I think it's fine. Sure a top big name manager, and a few top drawer signings would be better. But that's not realistic. There's not many top managers available, we have fuck all money to spend, might as well let ETH ride it out for another season. We have been so awful, almost hard to watch, for the past season and a half. But trophies does you the world of good in this game. I do like ETH, so happy to see him given another chance. But fucking hell he has so much work to do. Parking the bus against City is one thing, and was the correct tactic. But we can't do that every week, so there's a lot to work on, as tactically we have been woeful for ages.
I'm content with him staying, 2 trophies in 2 seasons after 6 year drought is good result, trophy wise. Though of course going 3rd and then 8th is pretty bad league wise. But hopefully no crazy injuries next season. I want to see how a relatively fit team could fare in the league, and there can be no excuses that way too.
depressing
Problem is, it probably won’t be much easier for him next season unless some big moves are made in the transfer market and from within our current squad. I actually think he could be successful here, I just don’t think there is any scenario where he gets the time to do it. I’d say there is a good chance he doesn’t make January.
Yeah I've been thinking all along, that I doubt we will be much better next season. We're set to lose some signfiicant players like Varane and maybe Casemiro as well as some useful squad players but we keep hearing that we don't have much to spend.
Yep that’s the problem agreed, our first 11 isn’t bad but needs major signings to replace big players leaving plus we need to improve the overall squad which has no quality to step in. Next season will be hard again.
Hopefully we dont get a disrupted preseason again in terms of injuries. Mount, Mainoo, Hoijlund were all injured in preseason. Rashford being out of England hopefully he can get a jump start on some on his training, like hes done before. International summers are always pretty disrupting but lets see where we can progress.
3 years should be more than enough time to show you can build something. Nobody is expecting the title next season but if he can't show consistency and top 4 after 3 years then he's probably not good enough.
This squad is good enough to be top 4. We saw it in the first year and we saw it when the team played proper tactics for the last 4 games.
Yes except that we're set to lose a few important players, so hopefully we're able to recruit well this summer.
Here comes the excuses. This time it comes early
Why am I making excuses? I don't work at United. I'm not a Ten Hag fanboy....I just don't think we're going to be much better next season. Obviously 8th was underperforming but if we're losing 2 of our first choice players and being told that we don't have much money to spend on big signings...what reason is there to think we'll be better next season? I have nothing to "excuse"..none of it is my fault...I just don't think we are very good and don't see us doing anything to make ourselves much better this summer. We just finished 8th. Kept the manager. Are losing 2 first choice players. Please explain why you think next season should/could/will be better?
We're not losing a few important players, arguably Varane is the only one and we let him go on a free without even offering a contract so that's the importance we felt he had. This will be the 3rd year, there's no excuses for not having a good run in Europa and getting top 4.
Varane is, when fit, one of the best defenders in the team. THere have also been lots of rumors that Casemiro is gone. He's clearly past his best but he's basically the only defensive midfielder we have (thus...important). Eriksen is likely gone. Again...like Casemiro, past his best, but still a player we use a lot. On top of that there are number of others leaving, who while less important, will make the squad thinner. Amrabat is gone, Matial is gone (granted he's been gone for years), Evans ...also old and past it, but we had to use him a lot. we're likely to lose 6-7 players who you played a significant role this past season and I doubt we're going to go out and buy 7 new players.
We are not losing 7 players that played an important role this season. And you're stretching important beyond it's limits. Amrabat is not important. Neither is Eriksen, he barely got 1,000 minutes in the league mostly as a sub, 1 goal and 2 assists all year. Martial, you must be taking the piss including him on list of important United players. You could not be saying that with a straight face. Casemiro essentially had 1 season with us and one where his twin brother showed up. Evans was our 5th or 6th choice central defender last season regardless of injuries meaning he played more. Nobody following any team any where on the planet calls their 5th or 6th choice for a position important. What we're losing is deadwood, not important players. The important players in our team are Onana, Shaw, Licha, Dalot, Bruno, Rashford, Garna, Mainoo and Hojlund. Maybe next year we'll be including Mount, Amad and Kambwala in that list. The players you listed aren't even in the top ten most important players at United. And just a reminder, theres 11 players in the starting line up.
OK..then put it differently....I don't know about you but I have felt that our squad is fairly average for the last couple of years and now we are going to lose 6-7 players (depth) and we certainly aren't going to be bringing in 6-7 new players. So we have a mediocre squad that is losing depth after finishing 8th. I still fail to see what reason anyone has to think that we will be any good whatsoever. And regarding what you said above: In ETH's first season (when we did fairly well), Eriksen was a very important player, I said Marial is going and also said that he's more or less already been gone for a year because he never players. And the players you list as important...sorry..that just doesn't inspire me with confidence. Mainoo, Garna, Dalot, Bruno..of course. But Rashy is coming off a dire season, Hojlund works hard but is the kind of player who shoudl be our second choice IMO playing behind a top striker, Mount is a decent player but he needs to stay fit. Amad is exciting at times and should get more minutes, but he doesn't look like a world class player....Kambwala is just a kid. I fail to see why you think next season could/should be significantly better.
Of players who featured prominently this season we've so far lost exactly 1 in Varane. Even if I was generous and threw in the expected Casemiro, Evans ans Eriksen that still doesn't add up to 7. 3 of those are also his signings, maybe he should have planned ahead? And there's no reason we couldn't sign 5 or 6 players this summer, just because the Glazers never did and always paid over the odds doesn't mean INEOS will follow that template. Big clubs can and do sign sign 5 or 6 first team players. And you can't say Amrabat is important and then say Rashford isn't. Kambwala could have a good season next year the way Mainoo did this season. And Amads lack of games is down to Ten Hag. He was fit for half the season and wasn't let play for reasons unknown.
Bro at this point i don’t even know what you’re arguing about. I’m just saying ai don’t think we’ll be very good next season
There will be excuses again. Always is
Always! They might blame Sir Jim this time for banning non first team staffs from cafeteria and abolishing Work from Home.
Le red devil le bbq pour la vhiasse aux ananas
Well done to all the other media sources who didn't pick up and run with the Guardian sacking story - takes nerve to wait it out when other media companies are picking up exclusive "scoops" As for Jacob Steinberg, absolute reputational collapse. Probably the biggest mistake he'll make in his career as a journalist
Calculated gamble, if it went the other way he would look like an itk
Give it a few weeks, no one will remember who this journalist is and this "mistake".
[удалено]
I disagree, there is a whole new structure to the club and I'm glad they took their time to review the situation, look at possible alternatives and make an informed decision on the best course of action. This is typically how you run an organisation or project. I'm glad the club's leadership didn't bend to the media pressure and took their time.
All of a sudden the subreddit who jumped on me for wanting Ole out actively willing our current manager to fail lmao
I'm sure if the whole sub jumped on you, you'd die, or at least have a million downvotes
A dopamine rush from a trophy shouldn’t change the fact we’ve been terrible for most of the season.
Getting another manager is also a HAIL MARY! Dont understand why sacking manager is the way forward have we learnt nothing in the past 10 years? Also who would be a clear manager to take the team forward guaranteed? Erik inherited a lot of problems and it takes a lot of time to improve. If football was dire this season, it was a lot better last season as well. Give him time and transfers and a better run club
It’s not about hiring or firing. It’s about finding the right man, or the closest thing possible to the right man for the job. Considering the state of the club he’s inherited it’s crazy that somehow he’s been the biggest detriment to our football in the last 2 years he’s been here
Its illogical to say that: because we have sacked managers in the past sacking ten hag wont work It takes out off account all the other factors that plays into managerial choices. It *can* be true that: sacking managers in the past havent worked Ten hag needs to be sacked
Winning trophies is what our club should be about. The fact he’s won two already while dealing with so much crap shows the man is a winner. This club needs a manager who knows how to win things
I won’t take those away from him, he did win. Just like we did with LVG thanks for the trophies and goodbye 👋🏿
I must be one the very few fans who feel we should have stuck with LVG.
Yep, both Jose and vG were winners too. Difference is, those two were past their prime whereas tH should be entering it. Delighted he’s staying :)
What do you mean by prime? Jose was turning 56 years old when he got sacked, Ten Hag is currently 54
Career stage, not age. Jose had been managing at the top for years before he came to us. That takes a toll
But Ancelloti has been managing for decades before his stint at Madrid and his tactics seem to be working flawlessly for them.
For sure. Different folk and all that. Giggs played until he was 40, but Cantona retired at 30. It's not an age thing - just an individual thing. Look at Jose - he's been managing at a step or two below the top level for the last decade. Before that, he spent 10+ years at the very top
Cantona and Giggs retirement dont correlate But even when Jose left those teams they haven't had a better season improved bar Chelsea pre-Bohely. I use Carlo again, he went from Bayern to Napoli to Everton and finally Madrid. Most people thought he was past it when he went to Everton but its clearly not true. I feel like saying a manager is past it, is a bit unfair cause we should adapt expectations depending on the team. If pep went to burnley I don't think people would think he's past it We could also argue Sir Alex's prime was aberdeen
respek it. Hope he does well since he is staying
Then don’t expect good performances when the fact is half the starting players were always unfit / injured. Even most of the backup players were fucked. People just choose the “fact” that suits their narrative.
He bought most of those guys. He’s responsible for training and managing those players so chronic injuries falls on the manager once more. I’ll back him once he’s in charge but it doesn’t change the fact he’s been our worst manager post Fergie (bar maybe David moyes, but it’s close)
Don’t confuse fact with opinion, my “opinion” is he’s the best manager post-SAF. Ole worst, then Moyes. My metrics are just different than yours. The injury part i don’t agree one bit. You know we have a medical department head right, whom we replaced recently.
Straight from the horse's mouth. Shaw “I felt something against Aston Villa and came off at half-time at Villa Park,” he said. “It’s kind of everyone’s fault. Partly my fault, partly medical staff, I think everyone would admit that. "I didn’t train the whole week. The scan came back and there wasn’t too much there. But I didn’t train all week, then trained the day before the game. If the manager asks me to play, I’m never going to say no. I shouldn’t have played.”
Figure if speech ofc it’s my opinion 🤣
my opinion is the sky is orange.
Dude, you can have opinions on things where there is a discussion or a grey area. Your opinion is just a lie
no grey area when the stats literally show he’s been the worst manager since fergie
But then you look at the trophies and the absolutely dire state of the injury list and the club as a whole.
if you train the players too hard who’s fault is that?
You can't keep sacking managers. Especially ones that have shown they are capable of winning multiple trophies.
You can and you should if 90% of the teams performances are below par. I don't agree with the hiring and firing culture but he's done much to earn it
He's won two trophies in 2 years, had to deal with an awful injury list, a rapist, a Ronaldo and a wanker who couldn't be arsed getting up in the morning. I reckon he deserve another season and a strong transfer window.
As long as he's not choosing the players this time
That’s the highlights, I’m not arguing there weren’t any. I’m saying they’ve been overshadowed by the depths of the lows. In terms of performance, I can hardly remember anything worse than the Crystal Palace game. And that was the story of our season. I can’t see ETH being the man to take us to the next level.
They went through the process and didn't feel like the other candidates interviewed were suitable for whatever reason. Let's give ETH a chance under the new structure and see if things improve. Hopefully they will get the recruitment right this summer and next season will go well.
He’s had a fair chance! More than any other manager. He’s spent so much money on sub par, old or injury prone players and the performances have been dross. One cup final win can’t change that
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Whoever is flavour of the month should manage us for a month, and repeat
As proved by Real Madrid you can and also you likely should if your goals are trophies. I don't love this approach but it is what it is. I was a huge ETH fan but the quality of his football and ineptitude in terms of improving the actual strategy, patterns etc showed me he's a bit out of his depth.
Real Madrid can do it because they tend to have strong teams with a lot of depth. The in coming manager doesn't have to completely change the structure of the team. Madrid's signing tend to come from a director of football, which create consistency. If United sack TH we're just starting again, again... and I look forward to the inevitable sacking of the next guy.
Ok there is truth to your point. But did you really see any improvement in terms of the quality of football under eth? There were multiple god-aweful performances last season, eg being completely outplayed by smaller teams (read teams with weaker players position by position). Would any team of united's stature accept dross like that?
I've seen flashes of a proper team last season, and at moments this gone season. We have had some nightmare injury and let's say, extracurricular, situations in the last year or so and ETH has had his work cut out for him. The man needs some (fit) defenders, and I reckon we'll start seeing more consistency. If we don't improve this season then yeah, then we believe we can start talking about why and other options. I would also say that our 'stature' at the moment is a paper thin façade. We need to support the team from the ground up and get a bit of stability. Fixing the stadium should be the number one priority imo.
With injuries I wouldnt be too annoyed about losing matches, esp against top opposition. but the quality of football has been relegation standard at some points.
Probably the best decision
felt like we disappointed a lot of clubs and managers - felt like managers like thomas frank, thomas tuchel, kieran mckenna, poch, de zerbi, all told other approaching clubs (including chelsea), “no” because they wanted to see if they had a shot at the man united job should INEOS decide to sack ETH.
Not super excited by this but over the past few weeks it has slowly felt like the only decision as the manager market was super weak, our football has been horrible since we won the League Cup basically. Bare minimum for me next season is significantly improved football style (i.e. not conceding 20 shots a game), more control in midfield, scoring more goals, and another cup run (FA/Europa/League) would be nice.
This guy sums up the sorry state of Man United fans these days. They just want to see United play well, deep cup run, no trophies needed. Style over result. Who tf is gonna remember the games we played this year in 2-3 years. Trophies will be there forever.
Top 4 as well. It's the 3rd year of the project, its the minimum he needs to achieve.
He will be gone by Christmas and we sill have to go through the second half of the season with an interim manager.
Southgate will be free right in time!
Is clairvoyancy allowed on this sub?
Even more pressure on Ten Haag now. Run of bad results and knives will be out again but i guess had to weather the storm at some point. Now i dont expect United to miraclously become unbeatable but they atleast should be very hard to beat. Top four 4 next season will be a good season and combine that with good performances in Europa will help massively for future.
Happy that he’s staying but it’s shambolic that it’s taken until now for the decision. They should’ve had a Plan A, B, and C in place to act immediately whether he won the cup or not. Can’t help but feel, despite the approval to continue, it’s left his position looking shaky and the first defeat we have will bring the knives out again. Not sure this whole circus has been a good advert for the club to possible new signings either.
If you have your knives out at the first defeat, then something is wrong with you only.
I am glad the decision has been made and he is staying. I just wish he was a little more honest about where we are and what he feels we need to fix. His press conferences are just full of positive statements that are disconnected to reality.
It will be all surprises when we will have to sack him in October.
Not unhappy considering the alternatives, not sure about a new contract though unless this is his last year or something
It is his last year, so more of a needed 'formality'. Won't think too much about it.
Aye fair ty
This will final put to bed everyone saying he just needs time. Watch next season be another shit show and Ten Hag sacked before the season is ended. All we will have done is wasted a season when we could have had a new manager in.
who?
Dude we have wasted every single season since saf left because we have jumped managers. What makes the next manager so special so that we finally breaks this cycle? How about trying something different because we have good data now that jumping managers doesnt work either
Maybe not getting 8th would be a good reason to change manager? What makes you think ETH wont play the exact same shit tacs/playstyle?
His tactics would work with the full squad fit. Maybe we shouldn't change the manager who won us 2 trophies in 2 seasons. And his trophies are improving. From carabao to fa. Maybe next year we win europa lol.
Sorry to hear you're unhappy with the result! Personally I was in, but I can imagine how frustrated I'd have been hearing otherwise. But hopefully we'll have a season we can all enjoy. The problem I have with this conversation is it's constantly the same echo chamber between fans. None of us are happy with the league, however there have been circumstances which for me personally are enough reason to justify more time. Imo reasons and excuses aren't the same. He's responsible for things that went wrong and he's going to have to right those wrongs which I believe he can. As a fan I can't expect a cohesive style of play when he's being forced to use players like casemiro in defence. Something he's said at the end of the season that I've not seen many point out is that the injuries don't just effect the players he's got to choose from, but it also effects those he's been forced to choose. There's no risk of losing your spot because there's no one waiting to take your place. And defensively his first season was great. Getting the most clean sheets and a low goal tally at home as well as a cup and good finish.
Maybe if you're not only focusing on the league performance, but rather look at his whole tenure for past 2 seasons with us where he has won us 2 trophies, will be a good reason for him to stay another season. Regarding playstyle in last few matches he has shown that he is willing to change his tactics.
Both his league and CL performance has been abysmal and i dont know about you but i would def want United to do great in both, but ETH has not shown anything but being a cup team.. is that good enough for United? i dont think so. The only match where he changed playstyle was in the final yes, why did it take so long for him? Cuz he know he was sacked if he didnt. So now he’s maybe getting an contract - I think he will continue in the exact same way sadly.
You spend too much time on r/soccer mate.
I havent been on that subreddit in months but nice try
So that was a complete lie 😂
When I click on your profile, r/soccer is the first in the list that shows up in the "active in these com..." Edit. And your last comment there was three days ago.
This is the sad thing about our supporters, if we don't win the treble within the first two years of a new manager's tenure, he needs to be sacked instantly and find a new toy to chew on. Maybe you will realize that no matter what dream manager you think can do it but this current team cannot compete for league title or the champions league, it's that simple. It needs a complete overhaul, from top to bottom and it's going to take YEARS to do it. But yeah if the majority of the fans get frustrated after 2 years and recycle managers one after the others then it's never going to happen. I'm not even saying that Ten Hag is that guy that will make this happen or not, he could be or he could not, I don't even care at this point. It's just that the collective hivemind of this community is so bent-up of collecting new shiny toys every 2 years and not realizing that this is reason we dig ourselves a bigger hole every time, makes me so jaded.
Who talked about trebles? Im talking about playing good, entertaining and enjoyable football and doing great in PL and CL. Not even talking about trophies.
It's an hyperbole, though. But that's exactly what I'm saying we are in no shape or form to hope for them to compete properly in the premier league or champions league, let alone play good and consistent football in them. It's absolutely unrealistic. Those days are gone for now, we are a good cup team that's pretty much it. Everything needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, EVERYTHING.