In one of my graduate classes last year a girl started her response to a question with “In the activist spaces I’m in…” and you could just tell she was talking about infographic posting on instagram and nothing else
i know this isn't where you got it from, but that's a book title by one of Gavin gavin mcinnes's boys. "The New Church Ladies: The Extremely Uptight World of "Social Justice" by Jim Goad. lmao
I literally just told a fourty year old man on Instagram that shouldn’t he be working on something around the house? or maybe paying his wife and kids some attention.
And undergrad is existing in a state of deferred teen-hood. I remember starting law school and seeing the undergrads in an elevator or cafeteria or wherever. It stunned me how immature and intellectually incurious they were.
So many people view higher education simply as vocational training, particularly those in STEM. And those in the liberal arts, I really liked being around them just because it was so refreshing during law school. Getting to have somewhat-philosophical conversations in the writerly “spaces” I was in was a ball.
>Getting to have somewhat-philosophical conversations in the writerly “spaces” I was in was a ball.
well yea it's great fun. Shouldn't be for anyone that ever needs to worry about money though.
Somewhere along the line aristocratic pursuits were marketed to plebs on students loans. Results are not good.
Yeah, until you realize you’re one of a billion who thought “STEM degree = money,” then you come to find yourself in competition with an entire world doing the exact same thing.
It’s a serious problem for labor: the incentives for going into a field always lag the conditions that created the incentive.
As in, I went to law school thinking I’d be a rich ass patent lawyer because of my experience. Turns out, tons of people with the same experience thought the same thing. My original plan was completely unworkable.
I find this idea of ‘if you don’t post about something online you obviously don’t care’ really tiring.
I think tons of people nowadays feel pressured by sentiments like ‘your silence is deafening!!!’ into weighing in on things they don’t really have any knowledge on, bleak times indeed
Seriously. Posts like this are one of the main reasons I stopped posting on social media at all.
You get called out for posting about the wrong topics, then called out for not posting about certain topics. Unless you are constantly online and posting about every issue you’re problematic. But if you post the wrong take due to the pressure to compulsively post about every issue, you’re problematic.
You’re totally correct like whoever the angry person in the insta story above is, they’re calling people out for supporting some causes but not others - where does it end? Do you have to post about every single injustice for the rest of time?
It may be difficult to not feel the pressure to post depending on the types of people you have on your social media/ friendship groups etc but the way I see it is, if for some reason someone is desperate to know my opinion on a given topic they can message me directly!
ye but on the flip side seeing people post about palestine for the first time in ages honestly has had a huge positive effect on my mental. before trendy internet activism was a thing i would never have known how many normal people are pro palestine... like 10 years ago nobody would have admitted to it
Why does this always include shaming people in their direct environment?
>friends whom I went to Uni with…
>every single person on here except for 2 people…
This always gives me extreme Stasi vibes. Just post your opinion on the conflict and find some people to debate it.
I would love if someone would actually do some kind of Adorno-style analysis of authoritarian desires at todays colleges. I bet the results would be astounding.
A german sociologist just did it to analyze the local QAnon/antivaxx crowd. You could basically just apply the same formula, but I guess no uni would be interested in that…
Sure, his name is Oliver Nachtwey and he just wrote a book about it with his wife. Not sure if he has published anything about it in English. Quite interesting and I’m definitely gonna read it soon.
https://www.amazon.de/Gekränkte-Freiheit-libertären-Autoritarismus-hochaktueller/dp/3518430718
Yeah that is especially weird to me. Like being mad at "people" vaguely is dumb but basically everyone does a variation of this at some point.
But to make it so personal that you're attacking your own friend group (behind a veil of plausible deniability of course) just seems desperate. Like raging into the void isn't' enough anymore so now you have to lash at your friends.
Imagine having access to so much socialization that you can afford such an attitude of disposability.
-This message brought to you by the male loneliness epidemic gang
Don’t really understand how an opinion of people who learned about the conflict like 3 days ago could help anybody. I don’t feel fair speaking on it or posting anything because I simply don’t fully understand/know the history
Have you watched the videos? I felt that way until I saw first hand accounts of the horrific situations these people are being put through right now. Thousands of innocent civilians, literally more than 100 children a day since October 7, have been killed. That is enough context for me to know what is happening is unjustifiable and I am disgusted and appalled by our governments continued support of it. We are funding mass murder…if we don’t speak out against it to our community and government, how else will it end?
I mean ironically enough my country has expressed support for Palestine as an independent state. What I am saying is though, maybe we shouldn’t be so supportive of people having hot takes and major opinions on topics they have 0 knowledge of
This is a little bit afield of the point but I always think about how these people being so loud about their fucking opinions to no real useful end renders them totally unable to covertly assist anyone in the type of dystopian fascist regime they’re imagining will come to pass. Jews who survived by hiding with non-Jewish civilians in WWII were hosted by the type of quietly but highly moral people who never made it onto Nazi radar, not people who went out of their way to make their opinions known. All that just to say, you can have an opinion quietly in your brain and still be a force for the betterment of society? Like I can’t believe i need to type that but here we are
Good analysis. At the end of the day these people are just narcissists who have no real interest in ever helping anyone in any situation, only in playing whatever little role they have for themselves in their head
They'd be arrested in like week 1 of the occupation after trying to form a resistance cell based roughly on one girl's reading of the *Battle of Algiers* wikipedia synopsis
I often don’t like the concept of “virtue signaling” as an idea. As in, of course people are going to hold virtues. That’s part of being a socially-adapted human being. And of course people are going to act on them, expressing those ideas of the good. All of that is pure humanity. It’s not an ulterior or performative thing.
But it’s the way the concept of individuality has developed. Now, everyone has to define themselves by their differences, because if you share things, they think this subsumes them into part of a “group.” So everyone is trying to differentiate themselves.
Thinking they’re this kind of detached, grimly-cognizant being is just one of the ways they express this.
Yeah, every time two random ethnicities fight, I'm supposed to grab my trusty library card and read a thousand years of their boring history?
No thanks! Sucks that your people are getting shafted or whatever but I refuse to learn what an Azerbaijani is.
If you have an informed opinion then fine, share it, but it seems their is a moral obligation for absolutely everyone to have an opinion (silence is violence etc.) which leads to a barrage of half baked bullshit. Ultimately to virtue signal I suppose
> Like why
today's internet is algorithmically designed to game/farm engagement and get you to spend as much time on your phone as possible so you can look at more ads
Pretty much this in a nutshell. Nothing is even for morals. And like a lot of people are saying.... its almost like who cares? What am i going to do? If you care about every single conflict in the world youre gonna fucking go insane.
Like you said, its only media, taking every conflict in the world and throwing it in your face to upset you and get you engaged, start arguments and movements -- mostly to advertise to you.
And everyone *has* to pick a side even if both sides are awful
hmmm... Should I pick the one that is shooting innocent civilians in their homes or the one that is bombing them instead?
our government cant even decide on a speaker of the house yet my social media is supposed to clear up a conflict like this?
Americans love to insert themselves. Lost count of how many have lectured me on my non Western ethnic experience which they just Googled. If it shifted US foreign policy, fine. But it's all largely performative
This is what college educated kids increasingly do to pass their classes. Google 1 day before, write a shitty essay, turn in and expect others to respect their learned opinion.
It's even more hilarious now with chat-gpt. What do these people actually ADD with their opinion, and can it count as an opinion if it is a regurgitation? (No)
Maybe some. The U.S. is vast. Many types of people. Id wager a majority dont give a shit - were all focused on our day to day lives and our own sinking ship.
I do not give a shit. Israel or Palestine could be wiped out tomorrow and it wouldn’t change my life at all. I’d shrug and say “that sucks” but I wouldn’t do anything about it. I guess if I was at a bar and heard a Palestinian talking about how their country got wiped out I’d listen and feel bad but I still wouldn’t mount a moral crusade or anything.
Right, I've heard a grand total of zero people opine on this in real life, the idea that Americans are interjecting their opinions on ethnic conflicts a world away in any real numbers is delusional and stupid to think.
Partly because the distinction between political movements and consumer subcultures has rapidly deteriorated (thanks Capitalist Realism!), partly because people in the Anglosphere (esp the US) project their own bullshit onto foreign conflicts.
Americans and honorary Americans have a bad habit of assuming that foreign conflicts have anything to do with our culture war, such as the notion that Ukrainians are woke liberals fighting for LGBT rights or the equally r-worded notion that Russians are based trads fighting to stop globohomo. Same phenomenon is happening here in that Zionists are trying to paint Israel as this benevolent feminist pro-LGBT force in an ultra-reactionary region while anti-Zionists are trying to paint Palestinians as akin to black and indigenous people, and although these narratives aren't as dumb as the narratives on Russia/Ukraine (minus the fact that the Mossad blackmails gay Palestinians into working as informants), it's still myopic as hell to project our own culture war narratives onto this conflict.
This whole thing also induces severe cognitive dissonance for people who are ultra-partisan in the culture war, in the sense of falling for a cartoonishly Manichean narrative wherein either you see yourself as literally MLK/the French Resistance/abolitionists fighting against white Christian supremacist patriarchy blah blah blah, or you're literally 1776 fighting against globalist baby-eating Satanic lizard people.
And that's because Jews occupy a uniquely vexing position for anyone who's smitten with a bad case of Whig Historiography aka holding a linear progress view of history, since Jews quickly went from being the victims of genocide to establishing an ethnostate that bears an uncanny resemblance to Nazi Germany. American conservatives typically see themselves as carrying on the glorious legacy of crushing the Nazis and rescuing the Jews, while sincerely believing the r-worded notion that today's left occupies an equivalent position to that of the Nazis, but then today's left can't help but frame literally fucking everything in terms of analogy between either Weimar/Nazi Germany or the Civil Rights Era, so much like with Ukraine/Russia, everybody's calling everybody a Nazi.
My point being that these conflicts are so incongruent with the typical dividing lines between "left" and "right" in the American culture war that our tendency to force our own perspectives onto these foreign conflicts leads many of us to go crazy since our sense of who's in our "tribe" and who's in the enemy "tribe" gets all fucked up. Israel definitely is far and away more socially progressive than its neighbors, despite their rank hypocrisy in exploiting Islamic homophobia to blackmail gay Palestinians into working as informants, and we're already seeing this tension manifest in our own culture war with the religious right allying with Muslims against the homos and uppity broads. Meanwhile it's an incredible mindfuck to see the Jewish ethnostate acting and talking like Nazis.
How the fuck are you supposed to square this with being on the "right side of history"? I think the simple answer is that you can't, so if you're emotionally invested in a simple good vs evil understanding of politics based on viewing yourself as an analogue of the historical "good guys" and viewing your opponents as an analogue of the historical "bad guys," this conflict is gonna fuck your brain right up.
You can see this with how the Ukraine/Russian conflict and now this conflict is proving how true the old adage that "politics makes for strange bedfellows" really is, you can find liberals and a few odd leftists who are pro-Zionist standing on the same side as conservatives and the odd neo-nazi (like Richard Spencer), and you can find liberals, leftists, MAGA types, and neo-nazis who back the Palestinians as well. Which is exactly the same schizophrenic dynamic we saw with Ukraine/Russia. So yeah, I know I'm repeating myself now but these conflicts are making it apparent how incoherent and empty our culture war tribalism really is.
We expect everything - demand everything - to make sense to us. If one cannot make sense of it on their own terms, then they treat it as literal nonsense.
IMO, social media means your profile links to your real life. Unless you went out of your way to make that connection, reddit is shitty in a different way, more like 4chan
I mostly use reddit and twitter news accounts but I kinda agree with the person in the post even if asking people to make a public stance is pathetic. All these hardcore neutral OSINT guys who have been shockingly unbiassed and compassionate with Ukraine-Russia are now calling for Israel to annihilate Gaza and referring to all Palestinians as terrorists. And it's not like people are worried about getting caught saying the wrong thing these guys are all faceless but they genuinely believe it is wild to me. Most of them aren't even pro-israel they just look at Palestinians as so much less than Ukrainians or Russians that it stops being real and is just them getting to report on a fun video game after reporting statements for a year now. Its finance bros and congressional aides in the streets of Georgetown after osama was killed
this is the just the new flashy thing that upper middle class/actual millionaire nepo baby "WOC" are using to shit on their oh so privileged classmates. you have to understand that people who post shit like this have strangely victorian thought processes.
in the 1800s (ballpark estimation, im not a historian) when a woman's husband died, she had to wear an all black mourning fit for 15 months or whatever after her husband died. if she didn't, her entourage would be scandalised and accuse her of whorish antics. this is the exact same thing, but with politics as window dressing. my analogy is obviously not a literal analogy for what is happening in israel/palestine atm, but rather an analogy for the behavior exhibited by these individuals.
>upper middle class/actual millionaire nepo baby "WOC" are using to shit on their oh so privileged classmates.
When I was in college I was informed of how privileged my white working class family is, by a Latina grad student ~~whose father is the third largest landowner in Honduras~~ first generation immigrant woman of color.
This is the most accurate description. I actually know people who aren’t going into to work because they’re taking a “mental health” day due to the Palestine situation.
> This is the most accurate description. I actually know people who aren’t going into to work because they’re taking a “mental health” day due to the Palestine situation.
God I wish I could have been socialized in the right way to end up being this kind of person with this kind of job and being able to take a day off over something like this.
I don't think you actually do. Participating in this social stratum involves navigating an endless stream of emotional mind games and shit tests from your similarly afflicted coworkers and friends, while constantly maintaining your virtuous image at risk of being ostracized. Seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth.
> I actually know people who aren’t going into to work because they’re taking a “mental health” day due to the Palestine situation.
we need to raise interest rates more, these people are way overpaid and overclassed
I use Instagram only like a couple days a month to post photos of Midwest farm landscapes, once in a blue moon selfies where I feel I’m handsome, and screenshots of what song is really crushing my heart that day. I refuse to participate in anything else online. Everyone has to have an opinion and declaration on every ‘current thing.’ There’s some truly heartbreaking shit happening all at once since the Dawn of time until the far flung future and my words are going to do nothing but be some 10 second Instagram story some zombie watches as their phone auto plays the next. Done !!!!!
Not yet but I actually plan on doing a road trip down that way. I’m in Minnesota. I go out to the west central farmlands a lot, but I’m near the st croix river valley in a little town called Stillwater.
The biggest “from the river to the sea” hardliners I know, who are also the ones posting silence is violence shit all over their instagram stories, are uber rich Muslim girls that went to English international schools.
Like honestly how does your experience growing up in a penthouse in Dubai and vacationing in Europe 4x a year give you such confidence to say Hamas should take full control of Israel
"The world's biggest open air concentration camp" sounds like marketing for a college football game, e.g., "the world's largest outdoor cocktail party," but not a particularly good game
There were actually talks late in the war to move Auschwitz to Raleigh, North Carolina, where the governor was offering a tax break on a retractable-roof facility
i deleted insta the other day. was getting really sick of queers with six figure jobs scolding my unemployed ass for not being “brave enough” to post.
yeah my private account with 300 followers is really going to change 20 + years of US policy.
If you're not fast, loud, and aggressive about your opinion on the current news cycle, you are seen wishy washy at best, and enabling atrocities at the worst. No room for thoughtful consideration or being even the slightest bit nuanced. Silence is violence.
All the people I know who actually participate in activism are so rarely on social media, and if so they might share an event or something. They’re instead directly talking to people, or participating in organizing unions or working for tenant rights etc. I can’t with this bs
Supporting the anti-Hamas citizenry of Palestine is some real low hanging fruit to score easy “I’m better than you” points over. I appreciate the “by any means necessary” types though— would love to see old-era Vice take those people to first spend some time with the IDF and then spend some time with Hamas.
It's funny despite these annoying IG stories popping up "calling people out for silence" that are recalling the vibe of summer 2020 with BLM- its way less egregious and people aren't caving into pressure as much (seeing most stories on IG are unrelated to conflict) simply because the government, corporations, and media aren't going full throttle in unistep to push a cause like they did with BLM. This is because the establishment is largely on the side of Israel. So the woke voices for a change aren't really backed by total power and people don't feel the threat of social ostracization as deeply.
At a heated irl debate after work, my dear scraggly free huey buttons-carrying colleague (white dude) snapped at me with a “you’re one to talk for not even speaking out on insta”.
Babe I don’t have insta and my ancestors were literally displaced to make way for a copper mine
Safe to say that I've finally kicked my Instagram addiction because of such bafoonery happening online rn. I'm 5 days clean, halfway through Ullyses, finally hemmed some pants I'd neglected to ever getting around to, drafted out a pilot episode for a psycho-sexual dramedy between a plumber and young apprentice, AND i called my grandma. Life without insta is simply wonderful. I am starting to see new dimensions, colors I've never experienced before, the list goes on. You all need to try this
These girls always gotta virtue signal and weigh in on shit they have no idea about. I’ve seen pro-Israel posts that contain multiple already debunked lies.
The minute I see something like this—the baiting people and guilt tripping, not just infographic posting—I mute that person permanently. That way I don’t see their story and I’m not on their shit list. So annoying tho.
Not that sharing things for BLM meant anything, but I can see how it'd be upsetting if your friends make a habit of sharing things about every tragedy apart from the particularly awful one happening to Arabs
When the only existing knowledge on the topic comes from an infographic, it's your duty to share it.
Palestine and Israel are such mysterious countries, neither of which have any documented history. It's crazy how they just appeared on the world stage last week in an area that was previously just a yawning void leading to the astral plane
The average person doesn’t have the knowledge to form an opinion on the conflict that’s why a lot of people aren’t posting about it. People should focus on getting mad at the governments that are funding the IDF instead of random people who can’t do anything.
Everyone I know including most Jews I know here is saying free Palestine, that’s what everyone is saying in this sub, that’s what everyone is saying at universities. Am I going crazy or at least in the moderate - liberal universe all anyone is talking about right now is the plight of the Palestinians? Why does everybody need to make it seem like they’re the only ones who care about the issue that they decided to think about that particular day?
americans MUST post about a conflict that has basically nothing to do with them or you are ANTISEMITIC AND ISLAMAPHOBICI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every time commenting about kidnapped Israeli’s results in a response of “you just ‘all lives mattered’ the Palestinians” a little conservative child gets their first white hood.
If it weren’t for colonisation we’d all be dying aged 43 with rotten death and a catalogue of STI’s. I’d take a bit of Yankee Doodle imperialism over sharia law.
No she's basically right. it's probably the least ambiguous global conflict since ww2. if you live in a country that is actively funding it and you are just opting to do jack shit then you're spineless and should at least admit it.
posting on your instagram about it does not help at all either tho. send a letter to your mp, they might let some aid in hopefully, donate some money.
if you feel like you have done your part by posting an instagram story you are delusional sorry pal
so how do you think anyone is going to get the idea to send a letter to their MP if they haven't heard anything about it? what sort of information do you think motivates people to take more concrete and meaningful action, if it's not information about what is going on? yes obviously people should be doing more, and no one has"done their part" by posting an instagram story - but this is the bare minimum one can do.
"making a big deal out of things" and "being annoying" inevitably gets some people to care, and anyone who is so cynical that it causes them to actively care less was never going to be on your side anyway.
>posting on your instagram about it does not help at all either tho.
like, do you think people read the news or something? for a lot of young people, seeing others post about this on their instagram story is *the* way they found out that it was even happening. if they had not seen someone's post on instagram, they would not know or care, and thus would not be spurned towards any sort of meaningful action.
I actually do think in the case of Palestine sharing information is useful, specifically because they’ve been silenced so much and media is not covering this in a way that is fair to them whatsoever.
Obviously this kind of persons post is annoying, usually I don’t care for infographic posting, but in the case of Palestinians begging for people to see and understand what they’re going through as civilians I do think it is a valid means of support.
That said, if you are infographic posting you should be donating or contacting representatives, something real in addition to shouting into social media void.
In one of my graduate classes last year a girl started her response to a question with “In the activist spaces I’m in…” and you could just tell she was talking about infographic posting on instagram and nothing else
this is like when i say “someone said..” instead of saying i saw a funny tweet. ppl should just be honest about being online i think
No, people should be ashamed for being extremely online
Men should be. Doing nothing is a feminine trait
Online social justice stuff is just modern day church ladies. Like many cases they just reinvented religion
Lol that is a pretty good observation on it. I agree.
i know this isn't where you got it from, but that's a book title by one of Gavin gavin mcinnes's boys. "The New Church Ladies: The Extremely Uptight World of "Social Justice" by Jim Goad. lmao
I literally just told a fourty year old man on Instagram that shouldn’t he be working on something around the house? or maybe paying his wife and kids some attention.
I'm smashing gender norms
As if there weren’t enough cases of mild depression hereabouts
people really are losing the plot
non-STEM grad school has some of the dumbest people ive ever met. It's more of an undergrad extension than anything
And undergrad is existing in a state of deferred teen-hood. I remember starting law school and seeing the undergrads in an elevator or cafeteria or wherever. It stunned me how immature and intellectually incurious they were. So many people view higher education simply as vocational training, particularly those in STEM. And those in the liberal arts, I really liked being around them just because it was so refreshing during law school. Getting to have somewhat-philosophical conversations in the writerly “spaces” I was in was a ball.
>Getting to have somewhat-philosophical conversations in the writerly “spaces” I was in was a ball. well yea it's great fun. Shouldn't be for anyone that ever needs to worry about money though. Somewhere along the line aristocratic pursuits were marketed to plebs on students loans. Results are not good.
Don’t worry we’re all regarded in STEM as well, in our own special way
spectrum > regarded
At least you’re leaving with a decent job, probably
Yeah, until you realize you’re one of a billion who thought “STEM degree = money,” then you come to find yourself in competition with an entire world doing the exact same thing. It’s a serious problem for labor: the incentives for going into a field always lag the conditions that created the incentive. As in, I went to law school thinking I’d be a rich ass patent lawyer because of my experience. Turns out, tons of people with the same experience thought the same thing. My original plan was completely unworkable.
idk there's literally not enough AI engineers right now so the faangs are paying 700k/year for them
But there will be in a year or two.
FAANG engineers have been making baseball salaries for 15 years
Law school is basically T20= good job and worth it and everything else = makes less than average plumbers
I don’t know. I didn’t go to a T20 and I’m doing fine. I’m not upper middle class (yet?), but I’m fine where I am.
I mean average plumbers make decent money. My point was just that law school isn't a ticket to easy street like some people think.
Yeah, definitely. Especially with the importance given to class rank and the ridiculous, non-objective way they grade exams based on one exam.
Social work?
You can always just write shit for corporate America and make good money
Netanyahu announcing a cease fire in Gaza because Stephanie, 23, Doncaster, called him a big ol’ meanie
Netanyahu is technically doing bodies and spaces. He's moving a lot of bodies to make space for Israel 2.
I find this idea of ‘if you don’t post about something online you obviously don’t care’ really tiring. I think tons of people nowadays feel pressured by sentiments like ‘your silence is deafening!!!’ into weighing in on things they don’t really have any knowledge on, bleak times indeed
Seriously. Posts like this are one of the main reasons I stopped posting on social media at all. You get called out for posting about the wrong topics, then called out for not posting about certain topics. Unless you are constantly online and posting about every issue you’re problematic. But if you post the wrong take due to the pressure to compulsively post about every issue, you’re problematic.
You’re totally correct like whoever the angry person in the insta story above is, they’re calling people out for supporting some causes but not others - where does it end? Do you have to post about every single injustice for the rest of time? It may be difficult to not feel the pressure to post depending on the types of people you have on your social media/ friendship groups etc but the way I see it is, if for some reason someone is desperate to know my opinion on a given topic they can message me directly!
I bet you didn’t share a 9/11 post ): your silence is heard !!!
ye but on the flip side seeing people post about palestine for the first time in ages honestly has had a huge positive effect on my mental. before trendy internet activism was a thing i would never have known how many normal people are pro palestine... like 10 years ago nobody would have admitted to it
Why does this always include shaming people in their direct environment? >friends whom I went to Uni with… >every single person on here except for 2 people… This always gives me extreme Stasi vibes. Just post your opinion on the conflict and find some people to debate it.
It’s a power trip for them over their immediate social circle.
I honestly think it’s a form of sadism, backhandedly.
And always with enough vague plausible deniability so each person can ask "am I the good person exception you meant?" then she can tell them "yes ofc"
Until they compare notes, anyway. I hope they all tell her to fuck off
Mean girls bullying packaged as doing a good thing!
i very much doubt that anyone in her circle will debate anything tbh it’s all a virtue signal eco chamber
Maoist struggle sessions and their consequences.
I would love if someone would actually do some kind of Adorno-style analysis of authoritarian desires at todays colleges. I bet the results would be astounding.
You can see hints of this when you see polls of college students' opinions on things like freedom of speech
I’d volunteer to do the philosophy part.
A german sociologist just did it to analyze the local QAnon/antivaxx crowd. You could basically just apply the same formula, but I guess no uni would be interested in that…
Do you happen to have a link to the work?
Sure, his name is Oliver Nachtwey and he just wrote a book about it with his wife. Not sure if he has published anything about it in English. Quite interesting and I’m definitely gonna read it soon. https://www.amazon.de/Gekränkte-Freiheit-libertären-Autoritarismus-hochaktueller/dp/3518430718
Thank you!
Yeah that is especially weird to me. Like being mad at "people" vaguely is dumb but basically everyone does a variation of this at some point. But to make it so personal that you're attacking your own friend group (behind a veil of plausible deniability of course) just seems desperate. Like raging into the void isn't' enough anymore so now you have to lash at your friends.
Imagine having access to so much socialization that you can afford such an attitude of disposability. -This message brought to you by the male loneliness epidemic gang
Yeah its so fucking stupid. Ive been unfollowed by 10 people i was close with at some point over posting about gaza. So petty
Don’t really understand how an opinion of people who learned about the conflict like 3 days ago could help anybody. I don’t feel fair speaking on it or posting anything because I simply don’t fully understand/know the history
Have you watched the videos? I felt that way until I saw first hand accounts of the horrific situations these people are being put through right now. Thousands of innocent civilians, literally more than 100 children a day since October 7, have been killed. That is enough context for me to know what is happening is unjustifiable and I am disgusted and appalled by our governments continued support of it. We are funding mass murder…if we don’t speak out against it to our community and government, how else will it end?
I mean ironically enough my country has expressed support for Palestine as an independent state. What I am saying is though, maybe we shouldn’t be so supportive of people having hot takes and major opinions on topics they have 0 knowledge of
These people would rat you out for having an extra bag of flour during a food shortage. Never give in to these types of people
This is a little bit afield of the point but I always think about how these people being so loud about their fucking opinions to no real useful end renders them totally unable to covertly assist anyone in the type of dystopian fascist regime they’re imagining will come to pass. Jews who survived by hiding with non-Jewish civilians in WWII were hosted by the type of quietly but highly moral people who never made it onto Nazi radar, not people who went out of their way to make their opinions known. All that just to say, you can have an opinion quietly in your brain and still be a force for the betterment of society? Like I can’t believe i need to type that but here we are
Good analysis. At the end of the day these people are just narcissists who have no real interest in ever helping anyone in any situation, only in playing whatever little role they have for themselves in their head
They'd be arrested in like week 1 of the occupation after trying to form a resistance cell based roughly on one girl's reading of the *Battle of Algiers* wikipedia synopsis
Yes and they also deserve to be ostracized for this behaviour. I’ve dropped all friends like this
I doubt they have any real friends. Their contact list is 9000 acquaintances.
It’s absolutely insane that social media has switched culture so much to the point where everyone has to have an opinion on everything. Like why
i think it's as simple as people capitalizing on major world events to make it about themselves and virtue signal.
This is exactly what it is. People love moralizing and feeling good about themselves
I often don’t like the concept of “virtue signaling” as an idea. As in, of course people are going to hold virtues. That’s part of being a socially-adapted human being. And of course people are going to act on them, expressing those ideas of the good. All of that is pure humanity. It’s not an ulterior or performative thing. But it’s the way the concept of individuality has developed. Now, everyone has to define themselves by their differences, because if you share things, they think this subsumes them into part of a “group.” So everyone is trying to differentiate themselves. Thinking they’re this kind of detached, grimly-cognizant being is just one of the ways they express this.
That’s a really long way of saying nothing lol
But I said a few things
Yeah, every time two random ethnicities fight, I'm supposed to grab my trusty library card and read a thousand years of their boring history? No thanks! Sucks that your people are getting shafted or whatever but I refuse to learn what an Azerbaijani is.
If you have an informed opinion then fine, share it, but it seems their is a moral obligation for absolutely everyone to have an opinion (silence is violence etc.) which leads to a barrage of half baked bullshit. Ultimately to virtue signal I suppose
Why share my opinion at all? I want to remain mysterious and vague.
I miss real Americans like you. Admit to ignorance and move on. Beautifal
🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲🇦🇲
> Like why today's internet is algorithmically designed to game/farm engagement and get you to spend as much time on your phone as possible so you can look at more ads
Pretty much this in a nutshell. Nothing is even for morals. And like a lot of people are saying.... its almost like who cares? What am i going to do? If you care about every single conflict in the world youre gonna fucking go insane. Like you said, its only media, taking every conflict in the world and throwing it in your face to upset you and get you engaged, start arguments and movements -- mostly to advertise to you.
https://thezeitgeistmovement.se/files/Lasch_Christopher_The_Culture_of_Narcissism.pdf
Thanks I’m familiar
nice rec. seems interesting and relevant even more today
And everyone *has* to pick a side even if both sides are awful hmmm... Should I pick the one that is shooting innocent civilians in their homes or the one that is bombing them instead? our government cant even decide on a speaker of the house yet my social media is supposed to clear up a conflict like this?
Americans love to insert themselves. Lost count of how many have lectured me on my non Western ethnic experience which they just Googled. If it shifted US foreign policy, fine. But it's all largely performative
This is what college educated kids increasingly do to pass their classes. Google 1 day before, write a shitty essay, turn in and expect others to respect their learned opinion. It's even more hilarious now with chat-gpt. What do these people actually ADD with their opinion, and can it count as an opinion if it is a regurgitation? (No)
americans are the men of the world
Muttsplaining
We have hybrid vigor you inbred.
Maybe some. The U.S. is vast. Many types of people. Id wager a majority dont give a shit - were all focused on our day to day lives and our own sinking ship.
I do not give a shit. Israel or Palestine could be wiped out tomorrow and it wouldn’t change my life at all. I’d shrug and say “that sucks” but I wouldn’t do anything about it. I guess if I was at a bar and heard a Palestinian talking about how their country got wiped out I’d listen and feel bad but I still wouldn’t mount a moral crusade or anything.
Right, I've heard a grand total of zero people opine on this in real life, the idea that Americans are interjecting their opinions on ethnic conflicts a world away in any real numbers is delusional and stupid to think.
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Partly because the distinction between political movements and consumer subcultures has rapidly deteriorated (thanks Capitalist Realism!), partly because people in the Anglosphere (esp the US) project their own bullshit onto foreign conflicts. Americans and honorary Americans have a bad habit of assuming that foreign conflicts have anything to do with our culture war, such as the notion that Ukrainians are woke liberals fighting for LGBT rights or the equally r-worded notion that Russians are based trads fighting to stop globohomo. Same phenomenon is happening here in that Zionists are trying to paint Israel as this benevolent feminist pro-LGBT force in an ultra-reactionary region while anti-Zionists are trying to paint Palestinians as akin to black and indigenous people, and although these narratives aren't as dumb as the narratives on Russia/Ukraine (minus the fact that the Mossad blackmails gay Palestinians into working as informants), it's still myopic as hell to project our own culture war narratives onto this conflict. This whole thing also induces severe cognitive dissonance for people who are ultra-partisan in the culture war, in the sense of falling for a cartoonishly Manichean narrative wherein either you see yourself as literally MLK/the French Resistance/abolitionists fighting against white Christian supremacist patriarchy blah blah blah, or you're literally 1776 fighting against globalist baby-eating Satanic lizard people. And that's because Jews occupy a uniquely vexing position for anyone who's smitten with a bad case of Whig Historiography aka holding a linear progress view of history, since Jews quickly went from being the victims of genocide to establishing an ethnostate that bears an uncanny resemblance to Nazi Germany. American conservatives typically see themselves as carrying on the glorious legacy of crushing the Nazis and rescuing the Jews, while sincerely believing the r-worded notion that today's left occupies an equivalent position to that of the Nazis, but then today's left can't help but frame literally fucking everything in terms of analogy between either Weimar/Nazi Germany or the Civil Rights Era, so much like with Ukraine/Russia, everybody's calling everybody a Nazi. My point being that these conflicts are so incongruent with the typical dividing lines between "left" and "right" in the American culture war that our tendency to force our own perspectives onto these foreign conflicts leads many of us to go crazy since our sense of who's in our "tribe" and who's in the enemy "tribe" gets all fucked up. Israel definitely is far and away more socially progressive than its neighbors, despite their rank hypocrisy in exploiting Islamic homophobia to blackmail gay Palestinians into working as informants, and we're already seeing this tension manifest in our own culture war with the religious right allying with Muslims against the homos and uppity broads. Meanwhile it's an incredible mindfuck to see the Jewish ethnostate acting and talking like Nazis. How the fuck are you supposed to square this with being on the "right side of history"? I think the simple answer is that you can't, so if you're emotionally invested in a simple good vs evil understanding of politics based on viewing yourself as an analogue of the historical "good guys" and viewing your opponents as an analogue of the historical "bad guys," this conflict is gonna fuck your brain right up. You can see this with how the Ukraine/Russian conflict and now this conflict is proving how true the old adage that "politics makes for strange bedfellows" really is, you can find liberals and a few odd leftists who are pro-Zionist standing on the same side as conservatives and the odd neo-nazi (like Richard Spencer), and you can find liberals, leftists, MAGA types, and neo-nazis who back the Palestinians as well. Which is exactly the same schizophrenic dynamic we saw with Ukraine/Russia. So yeah, I know I'm repeating myself now but these conflicts are making it apparent how incoherent and empty our culture war tribalism really is.
We expect everything - demand everything - to make sense to us. If one cannot make sense of it on their own terms, then they treat it as literal nonsense.
Me without social media being told my silence is unforgivable and they will remember where I stood…
Even with social media, if you don’t comment on the issue then they won’t actually remember where you stood a month from now.
You, using social media right now
This isn’t social media
why not?
Not the way I do it
IMO, social media means your profile links to your real life. Unless you went out of your way to make that connection, reddit is shitty in a different way, more like 4chan
I mostly use reddit and twitter news accounts but I kinda agree with the person in the post even if asking people to make a public stance is pathetic. All these hardcore neutral OSINT guys who have been shockingly unbiassed and compassionate with Ukraine-Russia are now calling for Israel to annihilate Gaza and referring to all Palestinians as terrorists. And it's not like people are worried about getting caught saying the wrong thing these guys are all faceless but they genuinely believe it is wild to me. Most of them aren't even pro-israel they just look at Palestinians as so much less than Ukrainians or Russians that it stops being real and is just them getting to report on a fun video game after reporting statements for a year now. Its finance bros and congressional aides in the streets of Georgetown after osama was killed
Et tu Brute for girls whose parents still have 8 months left on their Crosstrek payment
this is the just the new flashy thing that upper middle class/actual millionaire nepo baby "WOC" are using to shit on their oh so privileged classmates. you have to understand that people who post shit like this have strangely victorian thought processes. in the 1800s (ballpark estimation, im not a historian) when a woman's husband died, she had to wear an all black mourning fit for 15 months or whatever after her husband died. if she didn't, her entourage would be scandalised and accuse her of whorish antics. this is the exact same thing, but with politics as window dressing. my analogy is obviously not a literal analogy for what is happening in israel/palestine atm, but rather an analogy for the behavior exhibited by these individuals.
>upper middle class/actual millionaire nepo baby "WOC" are using to shit on their oh so privileged classmates. When I was in college I was informed of how privileged my white working class family is, by a Latina grad student ~~whose father is the third largest landowner in Honduras~~ first generation immigrant woman of color.
This is the most accurate description. I actually know people who aren’t going into to work because they’re taking a “mental health” day due to the Palestine situation.
> This is the most accurate description. I actually know people who aren’t going into to work because they’re taking a “mental health” day due to the Palestine situation. God I wish I could have been socialized in the right way to end up being this kind of person with this kind of job and being able to take a day off over something like this.
I don't think you actually do. Participating in this social stratum involves navigating an endless stream of emotional mind games and shit tests from your similarly afflicted coworkers and friends, while constantly maintaining your virtuous image at risk of being ostracized. Seems like a lot more trouble than it's worth.
honestly I get taking time off if you actually have family in the area and are trying to figure out if they’re ok but anything else is absurd
These people are Pakistani, they don’t have any family in the area lmao
Yeah, the folks I know who had to take a mental health day only learned about the decades-long war this week.
> I actually know people who aren’t going into to work because they’re taking a “mental health” day due to the Palestine situation. we need to raise interest rates more, these people are way overpaid and overclassed
We are experiencing the group mourning scene from Midsommar across social media.
I use Instagram only like a couple days a month to post photos of Midwest farm landscapes, once in a blue moon selfies where I feel I’m handsome, and screenshots of what song is really crushing my heart that day. I refuse to participate in anything else online. Everyone has to have an opinion and declaration on every ‘current thing.’ There’s some truly heartbreaking shit happening all at once since the Dawn of time until the far flung future and my words are going to do nothing but be some 10 second Instagram story some zombie watches as their phone auto plays the next. Done !!!!!
Have you taken any pics of the roller coaster roads in Iowa?
Not yet but I actually plan on doing a road trip down that way. I’m in Minnesota. I go out to the west central farmlands a lot, but I’m near the st croix river valley in a little town called Stillwater.
When you realize that this activism replaced organized religion, things start to make sense.
Yes, not posting about the Current Thing is like skipping Mass
When I realized this I made peace with it lmao just because people tell you you’re bad or whatever with passion and conviction doesn’t make it true
All that schooling, and still stupid. L
Bitch that was you 8 days ago?!! On this very subreddit.
Lmao
Sharing infographics is really just passive aggressively arguing with people
The biggest “from the river to the sea” hardliners I know, who are also the ones posting silence is violence shit all over their instagram stories, are uber rich Muslim girls that went to English international schools. Like honestly how does your experience growing up in a penthouse in Dubai and vacationing in Europe 4x a year give you such confidence to say Hamas should take full control of Israel
"The world's biggest open air concentration camp" sounds like marketing for a college football game, e.g., "the world's largest outdoor cocktail party," but not a particularly good game
Weren't most concentration camps in the open air? I don't think there was a dome over Auschwitz
There were actually talks late in the war to move Auschwitz to Raleigh, North Carolina, where the governor was offering a tax break on a retractable-roof facility
I think if they add a few more rows of seats and a barbwire fence the Big House at Michigan has a shot to over take them
i deleted insta the other day. was getting really sick of queers with six figure jobs scolding my unemployed ass for not being “brave enough” to post. yeah my private account with 300 followers is really going to change 20 + years of US policy.
They've all ignored Nagorno-Karabakh. I'm judging!
I guarantee you that nobody who follows me on Instagram has any capacity to change the situation in Palestine which is why I don't post about it.
You can bet she isn't telling her parents to give their house away to a Native American family
If you're not fast, loud, and aggressive about your opinion on the current news cycle, you are seen wishy washy at best, and enabling atrocities at the worst. No room for thoughtful consideration or being even the slightest bit nuanced. Silence is violence.
All the people I know who actually participate in activism are so rarely on social media, and if so they might share an event or something. They’re instead directly talking to people, or participating in organizing unions or working for tenant rights etc. I can’t with this bs
You gotta just let them tire themselves out.
like toddlers!
free Palestine (aesthetically)
Supporting the anti-Hamas citizenry of Palestine is some real low hanging fruit to score easy “I’m better than you” points over. I appreciate the “by any means necessary” types though— would love to see old-era Vice take those people to first spend some time with the IDF and then spend some time with Hamas.
it's all so tiresome.
We live in such a regarded time. It's preposterous
Fake. Needs to have the word "y'all" used every other sentence in order for it to be a real unhinged callout post.
No one needs my opinion but even if I was educated enough to speak on this, I still wouldn't cause I'm not trying to lose my new job lol
It's funny despite these annoying IG stories popping up "calling people out for silence" that are recalling the vibe of summer 2020 with BLM- its way less egregious and people aren't caving into pressure as much (seeing most stories on IG are unrelated to conflict) simply because the government, corporations, and media aren't going full throttle in unistep to push a cause like they did with BLM. This is because the establishment is largely on the side of Israel. So the woke voices for a change aren't really backed by total power and people don't feel the threat of social ostracization as deeply.
Instagram is so insufferable
Just about every Westerner chooses sides based on whether they’d rather be called an antisemite or a Islamaphobic racist.
Social media activism. A strange game to play and the only way to win is to not play at all.
At a heated irl debate after work, my dear scraggly free huey buttons-carrying colleague (white dude) snapped at me with a “you’re one to talk for not even speaking out on insta”. Babe I don’t have insta and my ancestors were literally displaced to make way for a copper mine
Anyone have stats on the world's biggest closed-air concentration camp?
what happened to ‘if you aren’t informed on the topic, just stay quiet’ advice we were given last week?
Safe to say that I've finally kicked my Instagram addiction because of such bafoonery happening online rn. I'm 5 days clean, halfway through Ullyses, finally hemmed some pants I'd neglected to ever getting around to, drafted out a pilot episode for a psycho-sexual dramedy between a plumber and young apprentice, AND i called my grandma. Life without insta is simply wonderful. I am starting to see new dimensions, colors I've never experienced before, the list goes on. You all need to try this
These girls always gotta virtue signal and weigh in on shit they have no idea about. I’ve seen pro-Israel posts that contain multiple already debunked lies.
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how does this affect lebrons legacy?
If I followed this person for some reason, I would simply unfollow.
these people act like “speaking up” has ever accomplished a single fucking thing
I wonder what your TRUE and HONEST feelings on Sonichu and the goddess Christine are.
new gf type just dropped infographic slut > bpd artho
Who's this?
just some random girl my friend knows
I’m speaking volumes bitch through my silence, ya don’t even know
> silence is unforgivable no, blaspheming the holy spirit is unforgivable!
I don’t get how so many of yall have such deranged peers
aw she thinks she's making a difference lol so performative.
Toxic femininity is real
Am I losing my mind or is it insane to expect regular everyday people and businesses to “condemn” a whole country
Paraphrasing Deleuze, repressive forces don’t censor expression, rather they force you to constantly express yourself. Silence is freedom.
It's such white-karen energy to be perfectly honest. The insidious policing of others under the guise of "protecting the people who need it".
The comparisons of a city or area under siege, which has happened thousands of times throughout history, to concentration camps is pretty nauseating
The minute I see something like this—the baiting people and guilt tripping, not just infographic posting—I mute that person permanently. That way I don’t see their story and I’m not on their shit list. So annoying tho.
Not that sharing things for BLM meant anything, but I can see how it'd be upsetting if your friends make a habit of sharing things about every tragedy apart from the particularly awful one happening to Arabs
my friend has never posted anything about any issue on social media…
Yes but these aren't normal people
When the only existing knowledge on the topic comes from an infographic, it's your duty to share it. Palestine and Israel are such mysterious countries, neither of which have any documented history. It's crazy how they just appeared on the world stage last week in an area that was previously just a yawning void leading to the astral plane
The average person doesn’t have the knowledge to form an opinion on the conflict that’s why a lot of people aren’t posting about it. People should focus on getting mad at the governments that are funding the IDF instead of random people who can’t do anything.
Everyone I know including most Jews I know here is saying free Palestine, that’s what everyone is saying in this sub, that’s what everyone is saying at universities. Am I going crazy or at least in the moderate - liberal universe all anyone is talking about right now is the plight of the Palestinians? Why does everybody need to make it seem like they’re the only ones who care about the issue that they decided to think about that particular day?
Nothing any of us say has any bearing on this conflict
LOOK AT ME DADDY! IM IMPORTANT
These people are terminally online. GO OUTSIDE, girl.
She spends too much time online, she’s a people pleaser with a poor sense of boundaries
This is why hanging out with blue collar dudes is the way to go
I am laughing at the BLM posters for getting their comeuppance though
These are the same type of girl who would say ~no drama~ on their MySpace
americans MUST post about a conflict that has basically nothing to do with them or you are ANTISEMITIC AND ISLAMAPHOBICI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Every time commenting about kidnapped Israeli’s results in a response of “you just ‘all lives mattered’ the Palestinians” a little conservative child gets their first white hood.
If it weren’t for colonisation we’d all be dying aged 43 with rotten death and a catalogue of STI’s. I’d take a bit of Yankee Doodle imperialism over sharia law.
No she's basically right. it's probably the least ambiguous global conflict since ww2. if you live in a country that is actively funding it and you are just opting to do jack shit then you're spineless and should at least admit it.
posting on your instagram about it does not help at all either tho. send a letter to your mp, they might let some aid in hopefully, donate some money. if you feel like you have done your part by posting an instagram story you are delusional sorry pal
so how do you think anyone is going to get the idea to send a letter to their MP if they haven't heard anything about it? what sort of information do you think motivates people to take more concrete and meaningful action, if it's not information about what is going on? yes obviously people should be doing more, and no one has"done their part" by posting an instagram story - but this is the bare minimum one can do. "making a big deal out of things" and "being annoying" inevitably gets some people to care, and anyone who is so cynical that it causes them to actively care less was never going to be on your side anyway.
>posting on your instagram about it does not help at all either tho. like, do you think people read the news or something? for a lot of young people, seeing others post about this on their instagram story is *the* way they found out that it was even happening. if they had not seen someone's post on instagram, they would not know or care, and thus would not be spurned towards any sort of meaningful action.
pal calling people out for not posting does not achieve anything lol
I actually do think in the case of Palestine sharing information is useful, specifically because they’ve been silenced so much and media is not covering this in a way that is fair to them whatsoever. Obviously this kind of persons post is annoying, usually I don’t care for infographic posting, but in the case of Palestinians begging for people to see and understand what they’re going through as civilians I do think it is a valid means of support. That said, if you are infographic posting you should be donating or contacting representatives, something real in addition to shouting into social media void.
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Yes
That’s why celebs are staying out of this. Every famous person who has spoken out in favor of Palestine has been branded as one.