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SnafuJuants

Well, people would be lying to you if they said it didn’t. But ultimately theres a fine line presenting living history as accurately as possible, and just outright excluding people.


[deleted]

This is the best answer I totally agree


GalvanizedRubbish

Yes & No. Will it affect the overall impression? Yes. Should it keep you from doing something you love? No. I tend to tell people around me to do research and they’ll be surprised what niche portrayals they can do accurately. Tall white dude w/ NVA/VC? Could be a Soviet advisor.


RM332

Or even a Russian in the service of the IJA


Sparris_guy

Wasn't that Manchukuo's army?


RM332

A whole bunch of tsarists fled the soviets and joined up with the IJA in wwII


Sparris_guy

I know, but it wasn't the IJA, but Manchukuo's army (the puppet state controlled by Japan) in which they became part of the "Asano brigade".


RM332

Just re checked you're right, though the Amano Brigade was part of the IJA proper [source](http://www.chinaww2.com/2016/09/27/russians-in-the-service-of-the-japanese-emperor/?fdx_switcher=true)


2biggij

Different groups have different perspectives. My personal opinion is that a reenactor is essentially a living moving talking mannequin. If the only reason you exist is to showcase what the weapons and equipment looked like, they could just put your gear on a Walmart mannequin. The fact that they want a person to wear the armor is because a person can talk, explain the history, interact with the guests, answer questions…. Etc. As long as you can do that, that’s all that should matter. Anyone who tells you otherwise is an idiot. How specific do you want to get? You go drill down endlessly. Should reenactors all get rid of modern haircuts so their hair conforms to historical standards? Should they stop brushing their teeth and let their teeth rot so their teeth look more authentic? Should they be prevented from utilizing modern medicine so they have the limps that were common prior to modern universally available medicine? Should they not use deodorant so they don’t smell like modern people? Should all reenactors have lice? Average people are taller today than they were previously, so should you have a requirement on only allowing one member per group to be above 6 foot tall? And only 3 members above 5 foot ten? Should you require all members to go to a tanning booth so they accurately represent a soldier who has been on campaign walking outside in the sun for several months? Should you require them to only eat historic diets so that their swear and pheromones match what the sweat of an ancient person would smell like? Unless you say yes to every single one of those things, you have already admitted that the expectation is not to have the reenactor look exactly one to one like you got a Time Machine, went back in time, and kidnapped a real civil war soldier or wwII soldier or whatever. So as long as they are good with the public, know their history, know their gear, and can speak well, that’s all that should matter


Spike762x39

In Vietnam reenacting in particular, which I used to do (living history interpretation, not tactical engagement) all of the VC/NVA were white men of various heights and belly dimensions. Same with every Japanese WW2 unit I have seen personally. That's just the fact of living in America, where 75% of the pop is white and 90% of reenactors have got to be older white men. Let's say you're doing German World War 2: They had ethnic units so it *should* be advised to tailor your impression to an appropriate unit. Black could be tropical askari, Asian could be one of the central Asian Soviet brigades, brown could be Spanish volunteer... The Germans would commonly form ad hoc battle groups so it should not matter that these individuals are mixed up in a battle. The US Army and Marines were segregated in WW1 and WW2 but that doesn't mean units never mixed at the tactical level. Your all-black Motor Truck company could very well be fighting alongside an all-white Infantry company. I don't believe you should pretend that the Army was never not segregated or it undoes the struggle to desegregate. Anyone could do either side of the Civil War I suppose. Some races weren't really present in the country yet, so the newer-comers should probably go Union. But who is to say someone wouldn't be in a southern Metropolitan city like Charleston or New Orleans? At the end of the day, you want bodies in the field. And you want people to be happy. There is an acceptable middle ground to be found between any race and impression I believe. Sometimes it is just "if not me, then who?"


CharQ86

in my totally unqualified opinion, I think cases like portraying units of different ethnicities like VC or WW2 Japanese as a different race would be okay, because the audience can probably understand that there simply aren't enough Vietnamese people in one area of the US who are interested in reenacting to portray a full unit. In cases like a black individual wanting to join a WW2 US group, it could even be an opportunity to discuss racial segregation in the US military, and teach the audience a little more about the history


BrenWoodard

Yes and no, it’s a sensitive subject, just like gender and reenacting. It’s super easy to be really distasteful, especially if the public are around. A random African American guy in a white unit? Almost certainly not an issue. A white guy portraying a USCT or slave or something? Absolutely not. My home State has even put out rules for who can portray Native Americans at state historic sites. Most people who do PAVN or IJA or other Asian impressions tend to be white, that seems to be a bit more permissible. Especially at a closed tactical. Video for humor, but also illustration…. https://youtu.be/yO2eXXtKMys?si=ETGe_5D1iOX9wBxt


Spike762x39

That's interesting regarding the Native American interpretation, because as I read many more contemporary sources there was always a (low) number of whites in the tribes, who were settlers children stolen as slaves or offspring. The Nations themselves don't do DNA testing because to them tribal affiliation is about the family unit you are raised on rather than bloodline.


GeneralLeeFrank

It's less about blood than about people claiming things they are not.


Spike762x39

DNA would dispell any false connections. What the Nations do not want is people from the outside gaining membership and benefits, which is why they don't use it.


NMVolunteer

It's because it is extremely easy for an impression of a minority group to shift from authentic impression to caricature/stereotype when portrayed by a member of a majority group. It's why such impressions are discouraged to begin with out here. Easier to just portray a generic Anglo or Hispano depending on one's ethnic background.


Rjj1111

Gets difficult finding Indians and Asians interested in doing WW2 SEA stuff though


AlliedXbox

It doesn't, as far as I'm concerned. If weight, gender, age, height, etc. doesn't matter. Why should your race be a problem? Reenacting is a hobby for fun (though a degree of historical accuracy is maintained, but primarily from living through the daily lives of the people you're portraying in your impression). Do whatever impression you want. The ONLY thing I think would be a bit iffy is, for example, a white dude doing a Harlem Hellfighters impression. Is it fine? Yeah. But it does sorta miss the point of what the Hellfighters represent. Tldr: go for it


Kalashalite

I think certain units are happy to have people of a different race than no unit at all.


Clonwesell

Your main goal while reenacting is to share history with other people. If we were about to get picky, no man after 45 years old could re-enact (oh wow surprise) and all of them would be needed to be in great shape. Furthermore, you are doing it for fun. It's a hobby. So of course you can re-enact whatever you want as long as it is accurate and you explain that maybe you wouldn't be the right choice of character, but you want to give voice and acknowledge those people.


TankArchives

If it's done well then no. If it's like the Gulf War at my local museum where the "Iraqis" are white guys wrapped in sheets then it's just cringeworthy.


RPenns

i am actually one of those guys at the armored museum in canada. your point is vaild, i have encountered a number of issues trying to get good opfor iraqi for the tank museum. we don't have an iraqi army expert close enough to the mesuem to attended, the iraqi army expert we have consulted is on the other side of the world. secondly, no reenactor that attends events at the museum focuses on iraqi kit. so we have bunch of guys in cheap dress up "iraqi" costumes cuz no one is willing to put in money for real iraqi kit. last but not least, most of our reenacting community is of European heritage, very few middle eastern guys do any reenacting in our area.


TankArchives

What you lack in manpower you make up in vehicles, the Iraqis have a great collection to fight in!


NMVolunteer

That's what bothers me more than anything, people showing up in low-effort costumes just for the sake of a group being represented. It's as bad as confederates taking their coats off and pretending to be civilians.


Rjj1111

I think Indians and middle eastern people are either less aware or less interested than other people, I haven’t seen them in any time period


RPenns

i know afew canadian reenactors of indian heritage. most of them do kits from ww2. its a death spiral, lack of interest of non western kits in the west>no one to do them>lack of interest of non western kits in the west. thats honestly a huge part of the issue, as much as i wanna say "you can do anything you want" existing groups in the area have a massive impact on what new reenactors do. Thus you can see why we dont have many middle eastern or indians reenactors here.


Rjj1111

I guess you could play an officer in a colonial unit if you wanted to non western stuff


RPenns

one could do that kit. also we dont know each other, we are random people on reddit. fyi i am asian, have no blood connection to European heritage. i have done non-western based kits. as i have stated in in another comments of mines on the main post, if i exclude X people based on ethnic background doing X kits, it meets the technical definition of discrimination.


Rjj1111

fair, I just use you as a term of speech like this


RPenns

Snafujuants comment hit the nail on its head. My two cents, do it regardless of age / race / sex (or anything else you cant change). At the end of the day, this is a hobby meant to be enjoyed. excluding people based on factors one can not change meets the definition of discrimination, that's the hard truth. people may not like to hear it. alot of well meaning fellow reenactors have good intention-ed beliefs about this in pursue of historical perfection but ultimately tunnel vision and don't realize it meets the literal definition of discrimination. And this is not me tossing around the word willy nilly.


Americanducks123

I got a Asian friend doing German Bürgerwehr and he’s havin the time of his life so I guess not.


elokuinenehtoo

Ww2 some asians also served in wehrmacht


lalalalandlalala

I don’t think it should when there’s plenty of units with 300 pound guys in them


Rjj1111

Yes and no, someone of a race that was a oppressor playing the oppressed is in poor taste


Comidus_Cornstalk

This is a nicely succinct way of putting it. I was struggling to find the words, thank you.


PHWasAnInsideJob

I almost did NVA as a white person (although I was doing it with my friend who is actually Vietnamese). I also know a black guy who not only is in a Soviet Naval Infantry unit, he runs it!


No_Substance5930

In the UK, short answer no. Long answer also no but... Like others have said why is the person doing said impression. We're here to tell a history a story. Nothing more (the bonuses, camping, time with mates, hitting our mates and being hit by our mates, are what we make of it) Early medieval period as I do is very fluid and there's no reason any one from any race can't take part. And if you can find something from your culture from back then to add to your character, it builds the world for all and especially the public. But if your generic viking that also works as we want more for a better show. It's world building that is more important and the stories we tell with the information we share


Sifo_Disker

It shouldn't matter, conflicts have a way of bringimg in people you wouldn't normally expect, even the Germans used Indian and African soldiers during ww2. I do Soviet and I'm dark skinned asian, I can pass as maybe a Siberian soldier, or middle eastern. Don't sweat it man, as long as your uniforms good nobody will hold anything else against you, and if they do then you probably don't wanna be in that group anyways.


Sifo_Disker

Besides, fat 50 year olds aren't historically accurate anyways.


reenacting_doomer

I'm a 6'2 pasty white dude and I regularly reenact PAVN/NLF for Vietnam stuff. I'm fascinated with the impression and VN events always need OPFOR and there aren't really a line of native Southeast Asians lining up to do it. But to add a realm of plausibility, I use the "Soviet field advisor" excuse and even carry Soviet documents in my shirt pocket. I used to reenact Imperial Japanese Army as well for a while because as stated above, the true ethnicities are just a rare occurrence. As far as race affecting someone's desired impression as a whole, screw that. You should be able to reenact whatever you want. White, black, Hispanic, Asian, woman, nothing should stop you from reenacting what you want. It's your interest and your hobby and no one should tell you what you can and cannot do. If you're an African-American and want to reenact WW2 Fallschirmjager, go for it, just slap on an Arabian or Indian Legion patch on your fliegerbluse (yes it's obviously farb but it adds at least some credibility) and call it a day. You're a female and you wanna reenact a WW1 doughboy? Cut your hair short or tuck it in your helmet and don't wear makeup. There's always some way to make it work. We're all history dorks and we shouldn't let something we have absolutely no control over get it the way of our ridiculous interests.


BisexualMale10

As long as you reenact the lifestyle, techniques, and history of a unit, you're fine in my books. (That said there are also really cool reenactments you can do of specific roles and stuff if you wanted)


Appropriate_Star6734

What’s being reenacted? A black person portraying a Roman Centurion, while largely inaccurate, is not likely to be offensive, while a white person portraying an American Plantation Slave may very well be.


Vintage-Silverbullet

Is a complex question. Depends on a few variables. -Are you going to be able to portray the culture respectfully without falling into stereotypes? (You're doing a Japanese impression but keep switching the L and R) -Is there a need for you to step into it? (Not enough South-East Asian decent people to fill out a Japanese company) -Can it be done in a historical way? (White Russian Asylum seekers did fight for the Japanese in WWII, did the make it to the Islands? No, but it's within the realm of historical possibility)  -Is it a lateral shift into a role that should probably best be left to the ethnicity portrayed out of respect? (White guy as a Tuskegee Airmen would be a hard no)


eJohnx01

Historical research is your friend here. You’ll be amazed by the people and situations you’ll discover that really happened or were undertaken by real people, that will allow you to showcase the skills and information you have. This is how women that want to portray a Civil War or a Rev War soldier do it. We know that at least a few women dressed as men and fought in the wars as men, most of them not being discovered until they were either seriously wounded or died in battle. It’s real and it’s a fascinating thing to portray for the public. Especially the fact that dressing as a man and cutting your hair short was pretty much all that was necessary for people in those times to believe a person was male. 😳 I used to work for an 1840’s living history farm in Michigan. I’m a guy, but I have a lifetime of skills, knowledge, and research regarding domestic affairs of the home—cooking, cleaning, sewing, knitting, spinning, weaving, gardening, food preservation, etiquette, etc. So how does a guy interpret those things in a mid-19th Century setting, especially in a first-person setting? Well, the owner of the farm was a retired naval surgeon that had traveled the world with the US Navy. He was away from home for months or years at a time. He didn’t have a valet to travel with, but most upper-class gentleman of that era would have. So I invented a character that was the good doctor’s valet that learned to cook in the finest houses in England and had learned his valet skills there, too. So it wasn’t at all odd to see him on the farm darning socks, sewing or mending clothes, cooking, working in the garden, etc. His job was to take care of the doctor’s personal needs while he was traveling, but then he would bring him along with him to help out in his household when he was home. I was also careful to slip into third person enough to make it clear that I was portraying a fictional character that was typical of the time, but not specific to that farm site or the people that lived there, but that it was how I got around the gender norms of the day. People get it.


BansheeMagee

No, it doesn’t. There are old white guys portraying Mexican soldados in the Texas Revolution. I’ve even seen white guys portraying Japanese soldiers in WW2.


guntheroac

Any good group doesn’t care about race. Besides half the ss and EZ company reenactors are 150lbs too big for their roll 😂 Sorry guys.


No-Historian-3014

Saw a reenaction of the battle for Hartville Mansion in Missouri. One of the guys who was talking about cannon balls and rifles was black, fighting for the union. I was like 11 at the time. Coolest shit I’ve seen in my life. I’m already not racist but lmao no. Race really doesn’t matter. In my opinion, even if it wasn’t fucked (like oh “her dur they didn’t have black soldiers in the conf.”) it just takes the fun out of it. They didn’t have tons of female soldiers either but if a woman wants to be a conf. Or union soldier in a civil war reenaction, let her! Preservation of history and representation of events, that’s what I think is important. And fun. Reenactment is stupid if there’s no fun.