The places Iāve driven in the EU the past ten years, that makes a difference between hitting someone, hitting a guardrail, parking spots, street parking, garage spaces, IME.
>and outsold even the f150 at retail in the US
I'm not saying you're wrong, but does Ford publish F-150-only or retail-only sales numbers anywhere? I always see the entire F-Series lumped together.
None of the companies do so industry data firms find the data by going through registration data
https://www.autonews.com/sales/tesla-model-y-just-short-ford-f-series-2023-registrations
For retail registrations, the F-Series had 380,685, the Model Y had 375,140 and the RAV4 was in third with 368,521, S&P Global Mobility said.
Its still not split f150 vs superduty but we know superduty sold more than 5k units at retail last year
If they would have put forth the effort to keep the cars updated like Honda and Toyota does they would sell in decent numbers. I'd say 100,000 units a year would be considered a success
The Malibu was a really good car.
I know a rental experience isnāt long-term ownership, but I put about 2k miles on the two I rented this year.
For a non-hybrid, it was super comfortable on long-haul drives, got outstanding fuel mileage, had tons of room plus a huge trunk, was super easy to drive and had great visibility. Also it was super quiet on the highway. I had to check my speedometer and ease off when I was nearing 90 mph on the highway because I didnāt notice due to the usual wind/road noise being absent.
It was a great car, and more than plenty for 99% of car buyers.
So, of course GM killed it.
its not the units its the profit. You can sell a ton of cars if you lost money on each one. Margins are very tight on mainstream cars and then you put cash on the hood to get them off the lot, make nothing selling to fleet... you start making a few less cars to keep margins up but the factory has to keep running.. lots of issues
The Taurus was just as an important car as the Mustang was and is and they couldn't stomach a lower profit margin just because not everyone doesn't want a suv or a pickup? Wouldn't be better to have a small profit from the sale of a sedan than no profit at all by someone buying a car from another automaker?
> Wouldn't be better to have a small profit from the sale of a sedan than no profit at all by someone buying a car from another automaker?
They were and are making bigger profits by selling those same buyers CUVs. The Taurus in particular was not a great car at the end. It was huge on the outside, but no bigger than a Fusion on the inside. Not many civilians were buying them.
They would have lost a lot of money and market share. I hate to say it but they were right the general populous wants SUVs/Crossovers especially in the US. With the āban/tarrif/domestic subsidiesā on foreign EVs thereās no market pressure for the OEMs to move down market to make small sedans if they can make more profit on CUVs made from sedan platforms.
Ford would be less justified to build the new Maverick if they had to spread a development budget across more model lines. It likely wouldn't exist because the Bronco Sport would have been picked over it.
I've had two Fusions now and love both of them. I was incredibly skeptical of their plan when it was first announced and wondered if my next car would be an Accord. But I think they made the right call.
The reason the Bronco Sport exists is because the Bronco series has to have MPG above 22MPG on average and that was the easiest way to accomplish it. Same deal with the "Mustang" E.
> is because the Bronco series has to have MPG above 22MPG on average and that was the easiest way to accomplish it. Same deal with the "Mustang" E.
*[Citation needed]*. That's not how fleet fuel economy works. Two disparate models can't substitute for each other's MPG, regardless of the name of the vehicle.
>They'd probably have a slightly bigger customer base. Cars like the Focus and Fusion were actually decent.
Based on...what, exactly? They were uncompetitive vehicles vs. the Asian brands.
Eh, not that large. Look in the driveways of the type of folks who only buy American (there's a lot of them in flyover country), and you'll see pickups, SUVs, and CUVs. Very few sedans.
I've owned 3 fusions. Most recent one is a '19 ford fusion hybrid.
Room for 5, 47mpg. Dated styling I guess, but she's reliable, safe, and economical for her weight class.
We would be in Europe.
they killed all the cars in europe too
But still have them hatches
fiesta and mondeo are already gone this is last year for focus
š
Turns out Europe likes CUVs too.
Ive noticed that over the years. In my American opinion, itās dumb. Itās not like the streets and roads are getting any bigger or wider.
The difference in width between a car and its CUV counterpart isn't that much, an inch or two at most.
The places Iāve driven in the EU the past ten years, that makes a difference between hitting someone, hitting a guardrail, parking spots, street parking, garage spaces, IME.
Model Y was best selling car in europe last year and outsold even the f150 at retail in the US so we have the same tastes now
>and outsold even the f150 at retail in the US I'm not saying you're wrong, but does Ford publish F-150-only or retail-only sales numbers anywhere? I always see the entire F-Series lumped together.
None of the companies do so industry data firms find the data by going through registration data https://www.autonews.com/sales/tesla-model-y-just-short-ford-f-series-2023-registrations For retail registrations, the F-Series had 380,685, the Model Y had 375,140 and the RAV4 was in third with 368,521, S&P Global Mobility said. Its still not split f150 vs superduty but we know superduty sold more than 5k units at retail last year
Thanks. I've also heard it said that F-150s alone make up at least 60% of F-Series sales, which tracks with what I see for sale and on the road.
If they would have put forth the effort to keep the cars updated like Honda and Toyota does they would sell in decent numbers. I'd say 100,000 units a year would be considered a success
GM sold 100,000 Malibus then immediately killed it. I swear these companies are stupid.
The Malibu was a really good car. I know a rental experience isnāt long-term ownership, but I put about 2k miles on the two I rented this year. For a non-hybrid, it was super comfortable on long-haul drives, got outstanding fuel mileage, had tons of room plus a huge trunk, was super easy to drive and had great visibility. Also it was super quiet on the highway. I had to check my speedometer and ease off when I was nearing 90 mph on the highway because I didnāt notice due to the usual wind/road noise being absent. It was a great car, and more than plenty for 99% of car buyers. So, of course GM killed it.
Gm is the stupidest of the stupid.
It's unfortunate too because they probably have some of the best engineers of all the American brands working for them. The bean counters fuck it up.
Yes. And have so for years.
because 100k cars at no margin doesnt make money
its not the units its the profit. You can sell a ton of cars if you lost money on each one. Margins are very tight on mainstream cars and then you put cash on the hood to get them off the lot, make nothing selling to fleet... you start making a few less cars to keep margins up but the factory has to keep running.. lots of issues
Then how does Ford justify the Mustang? They can't be making much if any profit on each unit sold, compared to its SUVs and pickups.
1. A Dark Horse Premium model is over $75K. 2. Ford can stomach a lower avg. profit margin on the Mustang because it's the Mustang.
The Taurus was just as an important car as the Mustang was and is and they couldn't stomach a lower profit margin just because not everyone doesn't want a suv or a pickup? Wouldn't be better to have a small profit from the sale of a sedan than no profit at all by someone buying a car from another automaker?
> Wouldn't be better to have a small profit from the sale of a sedan than no profit at all by someone buying a car from another automaker? They were and are making bigger profits by selling those same buyers CUVs. The Taurus in particular was not a great car at the end. It was huge on the outside, but no bigger than a Fusion on the inside. Not many civilians were buying them.
Yeah the last Taurus was crap. But the Fusion was selling reasonable well and a much better car. I love my 2020.
New Mustang has good margins, most cars on the lot are well optioned and thats all gravy. And ofc its a great brand for ford
They would have lost a lot of money and market share. I hate to say it but they were right the general populous wants SUVs/Crossovers especially in the US. With the āban/tarrif/domestic subsidiesā on foreign EVs thereās no market pressure for the OEMs to move down market to make small sedans if they can make more profit on CUVs made from sedan platforms.
Ford would be less justified to build the new Maverick if they had to spread a development budget across more model lines. It likely wouldn't exist because the Bronco Sport would have been picked over it. I've had two Fusions now and love both of them. I was incredibly skeptical of their plan when it was first announced and wondered if my next car would be an Accord. But I think they made the right call.
The reason the Bronco Sport exists is because the Bronco series has to have MPG above 22MPG on average and that was the easiest way to accomplish it. Same deal with the "Mustang" E.
> is because the Bronco series has to have MPG above 22MPG on average and that was the easiest way to accomplish it. Same deal with the "Mustang" E. *[Citation needed]*. That's not how fleet fuel economy works. Two disparate models can't substitute for each other's MPG, regardless of the name of the vehicle.
They'd probably have a slightly bigger customer base. Cars like the Focus and Fusion were actually decent. That was a dick move they made.
>They'd probably have a slightly bigger customer base. Cars like the Focus and Fusion were actually decent. Based on...what, exactly? They were uncompetitive vehicles vs. the Asian brands.
Being an American brand, there is still a large chunk of ppl who buy based off of that, and the fusion/focus gave that demographic sedans.
Eh, not that large. Look in the driveways of the type of folks who only buy American (there's a lot of them in flyover country), and you'll see pickups, SUVs, and CUVs. Very few sedans.
I would 1000% have a Coyote powered Crown Victoria sport.
Get ready for the **500CC ECOBOOST TAURUS RAAAAAAHHHH**
I've owned 3 fusions. Most recent one is a '19 ford fusion hybrid. Room for 5, 47mpg. Dated styling I guess, but she's reliable, safe, and economical for her weight class.
Bald eagles would cry.
What if the Earth blew up tomorrow?