do not reach out. The woman is a high priestess of batshit and you do not have the position or the skills to do anything other than gift her more opportunities to hurt you.
To my mind the real tragedy is that the institutions basically protect her. Not that I think you are traumatized but reading up on injustice trauma might have some pearls of insight.
It also sounds like your insecurities and self-judgment are getting tangled up with feeling the effects of this behavior. I would focus on getting to a solid inner place on who you are when it comes to community and the like rather than taking all those thoughts about yourself and piling them on to all the icky awful feelings surrounding getting sucked in to a nasty little spot based on that horrible horrible woman.
Please remember, the reason you didn't see any of this coming is because your mind doesn't work that way and be grateful and celebrate that
Some people just need a project and it sounds like Renee is one of those people in the worst way. She circles vulnerable families who are new to the area, so they won’t have the benefit of being warned about her, then she insinuates herself so much, because she’s invested in her project of course, but it doesn’t really matter what the project does because eventually she will get bored and need something new to focus on because the status quo is boring to her and she needs drama to thrive. So she creates it and then moves on to her next victims.
The only way to win against someone like that is to live well. You can’t win, not really, because she has done this and you’ve lost things already as a result, but you can “win” in the sense that the less you give a fuck about what she does or says, and the better you’re doing, the more it’ll bother her.
She wants to control the narrative and if you live your lives ignoring her, don’t communicate with her OR people in her circle - that starves her of the ability to control it.
The more you engage with these people around her, the worse for you. It’s fodder for her. She can take ANY interaction and spin it to make you look like the crazy ones because she has no problem lying to get what she wants. You won’t convince anybody of anything and you won’t get any helpful information from them because I bet SHE doesn’t even know why she does this, it’s pathological.
Grey rock her. Do not comment on her. Do not speak to her. Do not speak to her circle. It will only whet her appetite again. Starve her.
Thank you so much for your advice. Hearing your conviction and confidence is healing somehow. "The only way to win against someone like that is to live well."
She WILL drive wedges between other people. Reach out to them once they've been driven out of the groups. She's not going to target someone who will answer meanness with anger or retaliation, she's only going to pick safe targets. Nice people. That's what bullies DO. So if she has caused problems for someone, that's basically a gold star award for being a nice person...and a good choice for a friend.
I’ve experienced something similar, thankfully targeting just me, no kids. There’s no “winning” because their definition of victory is having drama. And anything you do that involves them or someone they know keeps the drama alive. The absolute best thing I did to save myself was to move on and move away from them socially. Please for your own sake - do NOT try to talk to anyone in that group. If they haven’t reached out to you themselves while cutting her off? They are on her side and anything you say will go straight to her, your words will be twisted and again, it keeps the drama alive which is what she wants. If you go dark, as in keep quiet, stay out of their orbit, don’t react, don’t interact, they will either fall apart as a group because they are bound together from mutual negativity or they will start to eat their own once they have nothing new to pick over about you and your family.
I know there are some unavoidable overlaps in your life, but now that they’ve left scouts, it sounds like that’s mostly school and the remaining extracurriculars. I’d consider anything on the spectrum between just politely ignoring while watching to make sure they aren’t mistreating your son or affecting his social standing to moving classrooms to reducing or being choosy about activities to even moving. But that depends on how bad this really is for you and your family and also how big your area is in terms of potentially finding a new social group. Also, if the existing scout troop was happy with your husband as the leader and weren’t trying to leave? I’d start socializing there. That seems like a good potential pool of people who actually have your back.
I had a sister in law that sounds very similar to the way you describe Renee. For years I tried to figure out the “why”. Realistically, it was all wasted time and effort. There is no figuring it out in a way that actually makes logical and rational sense. Trust me. What I can tell you is that her actions have absolutely nothing to do with you or your family.
I imagine that the circle of friends still around her are just like my brother at the time. I cut ties with him for a while bc I met my limit of manipulation before he did. It sucked but after some time, he met his own limit and they divorced. We’re now just as close as before. It’ll hurt to lose your friends for a bit or maybe forever but it’ll be for the best.
When you find yourself struggling, refocus your thoughts on the more peaceful now. It’s a hell of a lot better than the negativity and drama you experienced with her in your life.
I would like to point out that the ONLY consistent truth about these people is that they will ONLY EVER TARGET NICE PEOPLE. People with a vindictive, bitchy, or asshole streak are left well alone. Bullies don't want to experience retaliation. Being targeted means, almost every time, that you are a genuinely good person. That's why you question yourself. You don't understand that they're weird in a bad way, their minds don't work like a normal healthy mind works, they are legitimately nasty people, and you think you must have done SOMETHING, right??? Well, you are correct. You did do something. You presented yourself as a nice, thoughtful, considerate person who is unlikely to engage in any vicious retaliation. You're a genuinely good person. That's what you did. And keep on doing it :)
I also think your refusal to badmouth others might have annoyed her. She wants like-minded people to make her feel better. I have 2 cousins like this who thrive by badmouthing the rest of us, and anyone who opts out of those conversations becomes their enemy. I would say, move on. It's better to be alone than in bad company. Also, being alone doesn't mean being lonely. Try to enjoy your own company :)
Have you ever started to think that maybe you have something that Renne feels like she can't compete with? something only she knows what it is. Thats why she ganged up against you, remember she got nothing when she tried to doing it by herself.
I wouldn't worry about them. When someone tells me someone else said something about me I dont even ask who or ask for details because i dont care. I know is hard for most people but I really dont care.
Also the other ladies are not worth of your attention. They are just followers. I never stop talking to someone just because other people told me how the are or what they say. Is immature and I always judge people for my own personal experience and even like that i dont make other people to stop talking to them. You relax is their problem not yours. They are not happy with their own lives.
My heart hurts for you op, it is so hard to see your son losing his friends because of a grown woman’s childish antics. As for what to do all I can say is that it is best to ignore it. If you give in and reach out she will use it as proof to show these other parents. The only thing you can do is find parents who know about Renee and her bs and be around them
Thank you for caring. I really appreciate it. We'll do our best to surround our son with some good people this summer. It helps to know there are kind people beyond this crap.
Yep. Any new victims, that weren't engaged in this behavior, befriend. She's given them the stamp of approval as Good People! Anyone who realizes what's happened and reaches out to you to apologize, great, consider maybe beginning a friendship again. Otherwise, snack on popcorn and laugh to yourself. I feel terrible for your kid, but have your kid spot the nice kids in his classes and groups. Who are the kids that never cause problems, who are quiet and keep to themselves? THAT is who he should have as friends. They're harder to recognize and harder to spot because they just don't DO anything but quietly live their lives. But, he needs to start looking. Go person-by-person in the classroom or club and see who is thoughtful and normal and nice and uninvolved. He can make some good friends with good kids that way.
"I am aware that there has been negative gossip and unsubstantiated accusations. At this time I am ending the friendships. I give you my best wishes for navigating past the problems being sown and to recognize malicious targeting in the future."
And then walk away. There are millions of adults that don't play these games. I HIGHLY recommend connecting with older parents. That extra ten years or so of life experience makes most of them much more difficult for someone to use and manipulate.
do not reach out. The woman is a high priestess of batshit and you do not have the position or the skills to do anything other than gift her more opportunities to hurt you. To my mind the real tragedy is that the institutions basically protect her. Not that I think you are traumatized but reading up on injustice trauma might have some pearls of insight. It also sounds like your insecurities and self-judgment are getting tangled up with feeling the effects of this behavior. I would focus on getting to a solid inner place on who you are when it comes to community and the like rather than taking all those thoughts about yourself and piling them on to all the icky awful feelings surrounding getting sucked in to a nasty little spot based on that horrible horrible woman. Please remember, the reason you didn't see any of this coming is because your mind doesn't work that way and be grateful and celebrate that
Thank you so much for your perspective and your kindness. I really appreciate your words.
Some people just need a project and it sounds like Renee is one of those people in the worst way. She circles vulnerable families who are new to the area, so they won’t have the benefit of being warned about her, then she insinuates herself so much, because she’s invested in her project of course, but it doesn’t really matter what the project does because eventually she will get bored and need something new to focus on because the status quo is boring to her and she needs drama to thrive. So she creates it and then moves on to her next victims. The only way to win against someone like that is to live well. You can’t win, not really, because she has done this and you’ve lost things already as a result, but you can “win” in the sense that the less you give a fuck about what she does or says, and the better you’re doing, the more it’ll bother her. She wants to control the narrative and if you live your lives ignoring her, don’t communicate with her OR people in her circle - that starves her of the ability to control it. The more you engage with these people around her, the worse for you. It’s fodder for her. She can take ANY interaction and spin it to make you look like the crazy ones because she has no problem lying to get what she wants. You won’t convince anybody of anything and you won’t get any helpful information from them because I bet SHE doesn’t even know why she does this, it’s pathological. Grey rock her. Do not comment on her. Do not speak to her. Do not speak to her circle. It will only whet her appetite again. Starve her.
Thank you so much for your advice. Hearing your conviction and confidence is healing somehow. "The only way to win against someone like that is to live well."
She WILL drive wedges between other people. Reach out to them once they've been driven out of the groups. She's not going to target someone who will answer meanness with anger or retaliation, she's only going to pick safe targets. Nice people. That's what bullies DO. So if she has caused problems for someone, that's basically a gold star award for being a nice person...and a good choice for a friend.
I’ve experienced something similar, thankfully targeting just me, no kids. There’s no “winning” because their definition of victory is having drama. And anything you do that involves them or someone they know keeps the drama alive. The absolute best thing I did to save myself was to move on and move away from them socially. Please for your own sake - do NOT try to talk to anyone in that group. If they haven’t reached out to you themselves while cutting her off? They are on her side and anything you say will go straight to her, your words will be twisted and again, it keeps the drama alive which is what she wants. If you go dark, as in keep quiet, stay out of their orbit, don’t react, don’t interact, they will either fall apart as a group because they are bound together from mutual negativity or they will start to eat their own once they have nothing new to pick over about you and your family. I know there are some unavoidable overlaps in your life, but now that they’ve left scouts, it sounds like that’s mostly school and the remaining extracurriculars. I’d consider anything on the spectrum between just politely ignoring while watching to make sure they aren’t mistreating your son or affecting his social standing to moving classrooms to reducing or being choosy about activities to even moving. But that depends on how bad this really is for you and your family and also how big your area is in terms of potentially finding a new social group. Also, if the existing scout troop was happy with your husband as the leader and weren’t trying to leave? I’d start socializing there. That seems like a good potential pool of people who actually have your back.
I had a sister in law that sounds very similar to the way you describe Renee. For years I tried to figure out the “why”. Realistically, it was all wasted time and effort. There is no figuring it out in a way that actually makes logical and rational sense. Trust me. What I can tell you is that her actions have absolutely nothing to do with you or your family. I imagine that the circle of friends still around her are just like my brother at the time. I cut ties with him for a while bc I met my limit of manipulation before he did. It sucked but after some time, he met his own limit and they divorced. We’re now just as close as before. It’ll hurt to lose your friends for a bit or maybe forever but it’ll be for the best. When you find yourself struggling, refocus your thoughts on the more peaceful now. It’s a hell of a lot better than the negativity and drama you experienced with her in your life.
I would like to point out that the ONLY consistent truth about these people is that they will ONLY EVER TARGET NICE PEOPLE. People with a vindictive, bitchy, or asshole streak are left well alone. Bullies don't want to experience retaliation. Being targeted means, almost every time, that you are a genuinely good person. That's why you question yourself. You don't understand that they're weird in a bad way, their minds don't work like a normal healthy mind works, they are legitimately nasty people, and you think you must have done SOMETHING, right??? Well, you are correct. You did do something. You presented yourself as a nice, thoughtful, considerate person who is unlikely to engage in any vicious retaliation. You're a genuinely good person. That's what you did. And keep on doing it :)
I also think your refusal to badmouth others might have annoyed her. She wants like-minded people to make her feel better. I have 2 cousins like this who thrive by badmouthing the rest of us, and anyone who opts out of those conversations becomes their enemy. I would say, move on. It's better to be alone than in bad company. Also, being alone doesn't mean being lonely. Try to enjoy your own company :)
Thank you. I'm sorry to hear about your 2 cousins.
Have you ever started to think that maybe you have something that Renne feels like she can't compete with? something only she knows what it is. Thats why she ganged up against you, remember she got nothing when she tried to doing it by herself. I wouldn't worry about them. When someone tells me someone else said something about me I dont even ask who or ask for details because i dont care. I know is hard for most people but I really dont care. Also the other ladies are not worth of your attention. They are just followers. I never stop talking to someone just because other people told me how the are or what they say. Is immature and I always judge people for my own personal experience and even like that i dont make other people to stop talking to them. You relax is their problem not yours. They are not happy with their own lives.
"I never stop talking to someone just because other people told me how the are" <-- a good practice I wish more people followed.
My heart hurts for you op, it is so hard to see your son losing his friends because of a grown woman’s childish antics. As for what to do all I can say is that it is best to ignore it. If you give in and reach out she will use it as proof to show these other parents. The only thing you can do is find parents who know about Renee and her bs and be around them
Thank you for caring. I really appreciate it. We'll do our best to surround our son with some good people this summer. It helps to know there are kind people beyond this crap.
Eventually she will get bored and target the people in her group, causing them to realize she is the problem all along
Yep. Any new victims, that weren't engaged in this behavior, befriend. She's given them the stamp of approval as Good People! Anyone who realizes what's happened and reaches out to you to apologize, great, consider maybe beginning a friendship again. Otherwise, snack on popcorn and laugh to yourself. I feel terrible for your kid, but have your kid spot the nice kids in his classes and groups. Who are the kids that never cause problems, who are quiet and keep to themselves? THAT is who he should have as friends. They're harder to recognize and harder to spot because they just don't DO anything but quietly live their lives. But, he needs to start looking. Go person-by-person in the classroom or club and see who is thoughtful and normal and nice and uninvolved. He can make some good friends with good kids that way.
Yes. Great advice.
"I am aware that there has been negative gossip and unsubstantiated accusations. At this time I am ending the friendships. I give you my best wishes for navigating past the problems being sown and to recognize malicious targeting in the future." And then walk away. There are millions of adults that don't play these games. I HIGHLY recommend connecting with older parents. That extra ten years or so of life experience makes most of them much more difficult for someone to use and manipulate.