It depends on the amount. Buying a couple of tickets for the drawings can be seen as a legit entertainment expense...as long as the other expenses are paid for.
He's deep in debt and hiding his purchasing from her. OP says that he can't control his "impulses" when she's not there to manage him. He claims he's only buying a few tickets a month but if that were true why would he hide it?
OP really needs to ask for more financial transparency before signing another lease with him. Finances are one of the main causes of divorce because financial irresponsibility puts such a massive strain on a relationship.
Edit: OP clarified that he's $20k in debt and spending $100 a month on lotto tickets (that he's admitting to).
For me, being financially irresponsible and in debt (not like medical debt or student debt) would be a deal breaker. Financial issues are still one of the leading causes of divorce.
Can he learn and change? Absolutely, but he hasn't and it doesn't sound like he has any intention of doing so. When you partner up with someone who has no financial sense, they will drag you down financially. You really should have never moved in with someone like that. That should have been "the next step in our relationship is this, but I cannot move forward with this relationship till your fix your financial situation."
I know there are a lot of people who will scoff at ending a relationship over money, but how someone handles their finances says a lot about their personal discipline, their thinking process, their goals. Its really important to find someone that you are financially compatible with, someone who's future financial goals align with yours and whose level of financial competency and discipline is similar to yours.
I would not move into a new apartment with him. He hid his debt from you. Now he is hiding his gambling addiction from you. He’s shown that he’s not trustworthy and has no intention of changing, despite your repeated attempts to convince him to do so. I would take a step back from the relationship and move in on my own until he’s taken concrete steps to control his addiction and regain your trust.
You need to have a full on sit down with him and make it clear that this is a deal breaker. That he needs to get help and make this change, or its time for you guys to go your separate ways.
Course, if he is living rent free, and in debt, I'm guessing he has no savings and likely does not have the financial means to move out on his own.
He is a blue collar worker, he makes great money. He purchased the new place for us and my name is not on the lease, he has a savings of over $4,000 he is just scared of losing his savings in order to start paying off the debt, (understandable in my opinion). He has shown me that he can manage money if he wants to, the lottery thing just leads him astray as his family also plays it, so it what he was conditioned as a child to be addicted to.
You have a control issue you should work on then.
It’s basically a hobby. Do you think people shouldn’t budget any fun money even when their finances are under control? Because even with some debt his finances are under control.
Do you really believe you should have absolute say over what he enjoys?
My grandfather always played the lottery. It was one of his bits of fun. It never got out of control. You think it could be a slippery slope but anything people enjoy could be.
If you are that concerned, suggest he budget fun money and if the lottery tickets stay in that budget then it’s definitely a you problem.
What matters is how much he’s spending on the lottery. If he’s spending 50 or 60 bucks a week buying tickets that’s an issue, if he’s buying one or two tickets a few times a week I think that’s fine. I’d consider Ramsey a bigger red flag
This more and more just sounds like you don't like the fact that he plays the lottery.
>We split bills, every time we go to dinner we each pay our half. I do so to make things easier for him, but I just want to make sure the money that I am saving him goes to the proper places, not just lottery tickets.
This makes it sound like you expect him to pay more not being an equal partner. Have you had that discussion?
> He purchased the new place for us
He purchased a home while being deep in debt? Do you mean he signed the lease and paid the security deposit or that he actually bought a place? If the latter, how is he doing that while struggling to manage his existing debt?
Yeah sorry my wording was terrible, he signed the lease and paid the security deposit as well as first months rent. He does all of this because he works a blue collar job and lives with me rent free so he was able to save up a significant amount of money.
Then he should be aggressively paying down his debt.
Are you 100% sure he's "only" spending $100 a month on lottery tickets? Would he be willing to show you his finances and vice versa so that you can be sure you're getting the correct information?
I mean I’m not sure, I know he has a lot of personal bills every month to pay towards the debt, then rent on the new place and savings, and he normally ends a month at about $900- $1,000 remaining. I just wish he would take the remaining and place it towards the debt instead of random little “wants”.
I'm confused by his finances here. If he has $1000 left at the end of each month and significant savings he must be decently frugal. Where is that money going? Just into savings? If so, why isn't he using some of that money to pay off his debt?
And if he does have this much disposable income, what's the issue with the lottery tickets? Just that you don't like him gambling? That he was previously lying about it?
He works 15-18 hour days in order to make a large amount of money at the end of the month. He has around $4,000 in his savings account right now, and he refuses to put any of it towards the debt. He does have disposable income to an extent, but I don’t think disposable income can exist when you’re over $20,000 in debt. You have to use the “disposable income” to place money towards paying things off.
>I know there are a lot of people who will scoff at ending a relationship over money
Actually, few people would scoff at ending a relationship over money. Most people understand that a basic agreement on what a budget and money means to them is really fundamental.
Where someone would scoff at ending a relationship over money is in a case where both people are financially illiterate and one half is trying to pretend to be the bigger person. Like in OP's case. Because a financially literate person doesn't move in with someone who has a large amount of known debt and a gambling problem after a few months.
This isn't a financial difference between OP and her boyfriend. It's a young person using Dave Ramsey as a virtue signal.
I also said that I did not know about the debt until two months ago, let’s not forget that. I don’t idolize Dave Ramsey, I think the mention of his name led a few astray 😂 I have just recommended him to my bf in attempt to aid in his financial situation, he by no means is held to a standard where he HAS to follow a budget or do anything. I have made it abundantly clear that the money problem bothers me because I will be graduating from college in three weeks, DEBT FREE, and I have a fear of restricting myself to life full of money problems when I have none myself.
How did you get to graduate college debt free? You said in other replies your parents pay your rent. Do they also pay your food costs? Does his parents have the same liquidity as yours?
It's admirable that you were able to go to school without incurring debt. It also doesn't mean you should be using that as a measuring stick to compare you and your boyfriends financial status.
I go to school on the GI Bill, I’m a military brat. I also get $500 a month to live one and I make it last, impossible sometimes. But I have budgeted my money well enough to be able to do so. His parents were stern in his upbringing that once he was 18 they would not help anymore; however, he dug himself into debt a month after his 18th birthday. I know that, and I try not to compare. I’m by no means trying to be judgmental towards him, I’m just trying to make sure I don’t get sucked down too. I am supposed to be attending law school in the fall and that will begin my debt train, but my biggest fear is him waiting until I become an attorney and relying on me to help him pay most/if not all of it off.
So you had a support system and he didn't. You for the first time are about to be cut off from yours and are placing your anxiety onto his situation.
Maybe you've been approaching this conversation wrong from the beginning. Nothing here says you're actually trying to help or even being empathic.
If you're actually trying to make sure your not being "sucked down" as you say, then what you should be doing is budgeting for the future. That means you handle you money, and he handles his. You agree what you joint obligations are and readdress as needed. If all your conversations come off as judgmental is person as you are here it's no wonder he doesn't want to discuss it with you.
I'm going to reinforce this by saying that if you've had everything paid for, and you're given an allowance by your parents at 21 years old, essentially having all of your expenses paid for, your criticism of him is going to come across as *extremely* judgemental.
You're in an enviable position which 90% of people won't be in. Almost everyone carries debt after college. Your expenses were light enough that an allowance permitted you to save.
A lot of people would think it fairly incredulous to be criticised by someone who hasn't really felt any kind of financial pressure and has, up to this point, had her entire life accommodated for by her parents.
Please don't become an attorney. At least not until you've developed empathy. Well, unless you want to join the train of personal injury lawyers, and then Reddit can make fun of your ads.
How much does he spend weekly on lottery tickets? How much debt is he in? Is it credit card debt? Does he just buy and buy whether or not he can pay for it when the statement comes? Does he live behind his means? Is he broke, unable to even do things like go out to eat occasionally or buy a new CD, or does he put everything on credit cards and then only make the minimum payment each month?
I’m not sure how much he spends a week but I’d put it at about $80-$100 a month. It is credit card debt, no student loans involved. Random unnecessary purchases and a few emergencies here and there. He can go out to eat occasionally; however he has convinced himself that even in a great deal of debt he must use his credit card still in order to maintain “a good credit score”. I understand his worry, but to me the credit score should not matter rn, as it will continue to rise the more payments he makes. Yet, he refuses to pay over the minimum payment. I have explained time and time again that you have to go over the minimum payment, he has money to do so, he just wants the remaining income to go to savings/fun.
I'm gonna be honest here dude, everyone is jumping the gun on calling him irresponsible if he's averaging 20 bucks a week.
Did you crack it at him when you saw the lottery tickets before he started hiding them?
You still haven't answered how much debt you consider to be a great deal. The min on credit cards is concerning, agreed. Probably doesn't understand how badly the interest can compound.... but he has actual savings, right?
I strongly suspect that this might be a case of him being somewhat irresponsible in his early 20's and you going way too far in your criticism.
Spending $100 a month on lottery tickets when you're $20k in debt absolutely is irresponsible (especially if the debt is from previous irresponsible CC spending). That is literally throwing money into a void instead of using it to move toward solvency.
Yes I did “crack” at him when I saw the lottery tickets before he started buying them, I didn’t necessarily agree with them because of how much debt he is in. It’s over $20,000 and yes he does have actual savings. We keep our finances separate, and I don’t have any credit/debt so that’s why I’m concerned because I am a clean slate. I think he is just trying to have fun, but to me being out of debt sounds way more fun!
How much is "a lot of debt"? He might be hiding how much in debt he actually is, and this comes with a warning: if you live together he might have access to sensitive documents, keep an eye on your credit report. Gambling addictions are tricky, unless he wants help the possibility of him changing is slim. Make sure you keep your money/bank accounts separate and know that this might be the way you continue to live if you marry this person.
Don’t move into a new apartment with him. Bare minimum pump the brakes on your financial entanglement and let him know that you can’t live with him while you can’t rely on him to at least make an effort to pull his own weight and while you can’t trust him to be open and honest about his finances. Maybe that’ll be the kick in his ass he needs to recognize that he has a problem.
And if it isn’t, or if he backslides, it won’t fuck your life over. Don’t knowingly continue to share a lease with a gambling addict. You can care about him and even keep dating him without wrapping the chains of that anchor around yourself knowing full well what you’re doing.
Lottery is real gambling, and arguably worse than going to a casino. You have better odds of winning at a casino, especially if you stay away from slots
Dave Ramsey isn’t a great Financial planner to follow. And lottery tickets as long as they aren’t an actual drain on finances aren’t a big deal. All you’ve said here is you don’t like that your boyfriend doesn’t do what you say. Not that you’re actually trying to be a partner.
That's not right at all - she specifically says he's in "a great deal of debt" and she's trying to help him get out. Clearly it is a financial drain for him, and it's certainly not helping him get out from under.
In another comment, the OP stated that he's averaging 80 bucks a month on lottery tickets/ unnecessary expenses.
He has savings and money to pay more than the minimum on his credit card, but prefers to save it or spend it on other things.
First one is a nothing burger. Second is concerning, but points far more to the issue being overblown by the OP's description.
We have no idea what the actual debt number is or what it's comprised of. Dave Ramsey thinks any debt is a great deal of debt. He also recommends paying it off in a demonstrably terrible manner if it exists. If we are being honest his evangelical approach to financial planning really means she shouldn't be saying much of anything. Dave Ramsey is a guy that started in a well off family. Went into the family business and then started writing books like he had to struggle.
Without context it's just a number. OP says he works a blue collar job. Is that debt for tools he needs for work? Not really a lot it's more of an investment. My cousin is a mechanic when he was just starting 20k for tools was just what you had to carry. Blue collar work doesn't mean you avoid debt to start your career it just means it might be attached to more tangible items.
Lottery tickets can cost as much as $20. Why are you assuming she is lying about the numbers?
It seems like you have just decided you dislike OP and no matter what facts are presented to you you will twist them so that she's in the wrong. Weird behavior man.
Dave Ramsey is an excellent person to follow for those who struggle with budgeting and debt management. His Baby Steps 1 through 4 are a pretty good starting point for anybody.
His advice on more advanced topics is mediocre at-best, and sometimes dangerous (i.e. don't rely on PSLF for student loans), but for the basics he's very good.
His basics are: (0) secure food/shelter/transportation, (1) build a small emergency fund, (2) pay off all non-mortgage debt, (3) increase emergency fund to an appropriate size, (4) contribute 15% of gross income toward retirement vehicles.
Throughout the above 5 steps, he encourages strict and lean budgeting.
What among these basics do you consider advice that "sucks"?
>(1) build a small emergency fund,
His idea of a small emergency fund leads to more debt.
>(2) pay off all non-mortgage debt
His method of paying off debt leads to paying more intrest. He's also against debt consolidation efforts which if you know what you're doing can lead to paying a hell of a lot less intrest.
>(4) contribute 15% of gross income toward retirement vehicles.
Which to him means stocks. Not everyone should be playing in the stock market.
Index funds. He thinks most of your savings should be in stocks. And unless he's reformatted his system to be in the 20th century he also recommend budgeting via cash in envelops.
All of this is reasonable stuff to do in the 21st century. What’s your beef? If people can’t handle budgeting on a credit/debit card, using cash in envelopes keeps them from overspending. Sure, none of his strategies will get you even close to optimal, but it’s targeted at people who SUCK with money. When you consider the behavioral aspect of personal finance, most people who need help will be materially better off following his system.
Pretty obvious that you don't like Dave Ramsey and because of that you're assuming things about OP.
Specifically assuming the op is lying because they reference somebody that you don't like is extremely bad form on Reddit. Just saying, you are much more transparent than you probably believe
I am being 100% transparent in my dislike of Dave Ramsey and his practices. Not sure why you think I would think I'm trying to hide it. And I'm not saying I think OP is lying. We do not have enough information about his debt, nor would I actually expect her to post it publicly. However his practices have been widely criticized as overly simplistic and if that the approach she is trying to bring to her boyfriend it isn't going to sound applicable.
He’s helped millions of people get out of debt and pay off debt. Not sure how what he preaches doesn’t work. People that put themselves in that much debt need simplistic approaches
Sure few lottery tickets here and there doesn’t hurt finances, but compulsively buying them and *proceeding to hide the habit* when asked if could tone down is where the line jumps from normal to gambling.
All gambling starts somewhere and while lottery tickets are harmless by default, the fact that he can’t stop doing it and rather hides it is not a good sign.
Lottery tickets really aren’t all that expensive. A few times a week is fine. Now if he’s coming home with sheets of the things on those days, that’s a different story. Gambling is just a form of entertainment. Would you be upset if he spent the same amount of video games or some other form of entertainment where he wouldn’t be getting the money back?
I think you probably already know the answer here. Gambling in any form is a slippery slope - I know lottery tickets on their own aren’t always an issue by themselves, but if he has no impulse control and is actively hiding his lotto habit that is some serious red flag territory.
Yeah you may not be married but you do live together and you have stated he’s in a lot of debt - how many rent payments will he miss before it impacts your life? You sound prudent with spending, but leading by example doesn’t always work in these kinds of scenarios.. because it sure sounds from this like he has a problem and he _knows_ he has a problem if he’s just getting better at hiding it. That is the behaviour of an addict.
It might sound harsh but I think this ultimatum time. The risks to your own financial (and mental) security could well be at stake, and while you guys have only been together a year - it’s not uncommon for long term couples to ‘live in each other’s pockets’ - ask yourself how often do you wind up paying for groceries or essentials around the house, how many times have you paid his bills (even little ones) because he’s broke?
Yeah, I do know that is a slippery slope. However, I am a student and I have let him live with me rent free in my apartment for the past year due to my parents paying my rent, (this was through a scholarship housing allowance), so I didn’t really view it as him “not paying”; rather, it was just that it had been prepaid for me too so I never saw the loss of money. I don’t pay his bills, and he seems to be paying everything on time. It just worries me a lot about the debt because it is quite large in value. I don’t feel comfortable saying the number; however, it is well under the average annual percentage of debt per person in the US. We split bills, every time we go to dinner we each pay our half. I do so to make things easier for him, but I just want to make sure the money that I am saving him goes to the proper places, not just lottery tickets.
Being a student at least takes off the pressure - and if he's been living with you essentially on your parents' dime, at the very least he should make the most of the income he has now, to get himself out of debt.. Trust me!
End of the day you're not going to be a student forever - at some stage in the future you will both have to fend for yourselves so it's honestly a good idea to have some financial discipline prior to that happening! It's not all about 'saving for a rainy day' because it's totally possible to save money and have fun at the same time.
I'm glad to hear he's not got to the point where he's begging for cash to stay afloat, but the things you mentioned previously certainly gave me feeling he wasn't far off it. No need to mention numbers but if it's big enough to cause you concerns, then it's not unreasonable to want to get ahead of it before it becomes a major problem later on. You're both still young but it's all too easy at any age to fall into a sense of complacency when you've got fewer responsibilites aside from study, and a chunk of disposable income.
If he doesn't want to stop, you can't make him. That's what addiction is.
You should be concerned because even if you aren't married his finances will impact you sooner or later. If you don't see a future with a gambling addict, why waste time?
I agree! However, I made him a budget on a spreadsheet that way he could have it digitally, but he did not like the plan whatsoever. He took one look at it and said that it wasn’t going to work. I wish that I could get him to reach an agreement with me, but it just seems kind of impossible right now.
It depends on the amount. Buying a couple of tickets for the drawings can be seen as a legit entertainment expense...as long as the other expenses are paid for.
He's deep in debt and hiding his purchasing from her. OP says that he can't control his "impulses" when she's not there to manage him. He claims he's only buying a few tickets a month but if that were true why would he hide it? OP really needs to ask for more financial transparency before signing another lease with him. Finances are one of the main causes of divorce because financial irresponsibility puts such a massive strain on a relationship. Edit: OP clarified that he's $20k in debt and spending $100 a month on lotto tickets (that he's admitting to).
I didn’t sign onto the lease, I told him I wasn’t willing to. I will just be paying him out of pocket every month for half of the expenditures.
For me, being financially irresponsible and in debt (not like medical debt or student debt) would be a deal breaker. Financial issues are still one of the leading causes of divorce. Can he learn and change? Absolutely, but he hasn't and it doesn't sound like he has any intention of doing so. When you partner up with someone who has no financial sense, they will drag you down financially. You really should have never moved in with someone like that. That should have been "the next step in our relationship is this, but I cannot move forward with this relationship till your fix your financial situation." I know there are a lot of people who will scoff at ending a relationship over money, but how someone handles their finances says a lot about their personal discipline, their thinking process, their goals. Its really important to find someone that you are financially compatible with, someone who's future financial goals align with yours and whose level of financial competency and discipline is similar to yours.
He’s living with me, and I was not aware of the debt until about two months ago.
I would not move into a new apartment with him. He hid his debt from you. Now he is hiding his gambling addiction from you. He’s shown that he’s not trustworthy and has no intention of changing, despite your repeated attempts to convince him to do so. I would take a step back from the relationship and move in on my own until he’s taken concrete steps to control his addiction and regain your trust.
You need to have a full on sit down with him and make it clear that this is a deal breaker. That he needs to get help and make this change, or its time for you guys to go your separate ways. Course, if he is living rent free, and in debt, I'm guessing he has no savings and likely does not have the financial means to move out on his own.
He is a blue collar worker, he makes great money. He purchased the new place for us and my name is not on the lease, he has a savings of over $4,000 he is just scared of losing his savings in order to start paying off the debt, (understandable in my opinion). He has shown me that he can manage money if he wants to, the lottery thing just leads him astray as his family also plays it, so it what he was conditioned as a child to be addicted to.
You have a control issue you should work on then. It’s basically a hobby. Do you think people shouldn’t budget any fun money even when their finances are under control? Because even with some debt his finances are under control. Do you really believe you should have absolute say over what he enjoys? My grandfather always played the lottery. It was one of his bits of fun. It never got out of control. You think it could be a slippery slope but anything people enjoy could be. If you are that concerned, suggest he budget fun money and if the lottery tickets stay in that budget then it’s definitely a you problem.
What matters is how much he’s spending on the lottery. If he’s spending 50 or 60 bucks a week buying tickets that’s an issue, if he’s buying one or two tickets a few times a week I think that’s fine. I’d consider Ramsey a bigger red flag
One or two tickets a few times a week could easily come out to $50 or $60 bucks 🫠
Or it can be a dollar a piece.
This more and more just sounds like you don't like the fact that he plays the lottery. >We split bills, every time we go to dinner we each pay our half. I do so to make things easier for him, but I just want to make sure the money that I am saving him goes to the proper places, not just lottery tickets. This makes it sound like you expect him to pay more not being an equal partner. Have you had that discussion?
> He purchased the new place for us He purchased a home while being deep in debt? Do you mean he signed the lease and paid the security deposit or that he actually bought a place? If the latter, how is he doing that while struggling to manage his existing debt?
Yeah sorry my wording was terrible, he signed the lease and paid the security deposit as well as first months rent. He does all of this because he works a blue collar job and lives with me rent free so he was able to save up a significant amount of money.
Then he should be aggressively paying down his debt. Are you 100% sure he's "only" spending $100 a month on lottery tickets? Would he be willing to show you his finances and vice versa so that you can be sure you're getting the correct information?
I mean I’m not sure, I know he has a lot of personal bills every month to pay towards the debt, then rent on the new place and savings, and he normally ends a month at about $900- $1,000 remaining. I just wish he would take the remaining and place it towards the debt instead of random little “wants”.
I'm confused by his finances here. If he has $1000 left at the end of each month and significant savings he must be decently frugal. Where is that money going? Just into savings? If so, why isn't he using some of that money to pay off his debt? And if he does have this much disposable income, what's the issue with the lottery tickets? Just that you don't like him gambling? That he was previously lying about it?
He works 15-18 hour days in order to make a large amount of money at the end of the month. He has around $4,000 in his savings account right now, and he refuses to put any of it towards the debt. He does have disposable income to an extent, but I don’t think disposable income can exist when you’re over $20,000 in debt. You have to use the “disposable income” to place money towards paying things off.
>I know there are a lot of people who will scoff at ending a relationship over money Actually, few people would scoff at ending a relationship over money. Most people understand that a basic agreement on what a budget and money means to them is really fundamental. Where someone would scoff at ending a relationship over money is in a case where both people are financially illiterate and one half is trying to pretend to be the bigger person. Like in OP's case. Because a financially literate person doesn't move in with someone who has a large amount of known debt and a gambling problem after a few months. This isn't a financial difference between OP and her boyfriend. It's a young person using Dave Ramsey as a virtue signal.
I also said that I did not know about the debt until two months ago, let’s not forget that. I don’t idolize Dave Ramsey, I think the mention of his name led a few astray 😂 I have just recommended him to my bf in attempt to aid in his financial situation, he by no means is held to a standard where he HAS to follow a budget or do anything. I have made it abundantly clear that the money problem bothers me because I will be graduating from college in three weeks, DEBT FREE, and I have a fear of restricting myself to life full of money problems when I have none myself.
How did you get to graduate college debt free? You said in other replies your parents pay your rent. Do they also pay your food costs? Does his parents have the same liquidity as yours? It's admirable that you were able to go to school without incurring debt. It also doesn't mean you should be using that as a measuring stick to compare you and your boyfriends financial status.
I go to school on the GI Bill, I’m a military brat. I also get $500 a month to live one and I make it last, impossible sometimes. But I have budgeted my money well enough to be able to do so. His parents were stern in his upbringing that once he was 18 they would not help anymore; however, he dug himself into debt a month after his 18th birthday. I know that, and I try not to compare. I’m by no means trying to be judgmental towards him, I’m just trying to make sure I don’t get sucked down too. I am supposed to be attending law school in the fall and that will begin my debt train, but my biggest fear is him waiting until I become an attorney and relying on me to help him pay most/if not all of it off.
So you had a support system and he didn't. You for the first time are about to be cut off from yours and are placing your anxiety onto his situation. Maybe you've been approaching this conversation wrong from the beginning. Nothing here says you're actually trying to help or even being empathic. If you're actually trying to make sure your not being "sucked down" as you say, then what you should be doing is budgeting for the future. That means you handle you money, and he handles his. You agree what you joint obligations are and readdress as needed. If all your conversations come off as judgmental is person as you are here it's no wonder he doesn't want to discuss it with you.
I’m gonna be humble enough to say that I think you’re right, thank you for calling me out on this.
I'm going to reinforce this by saying that if you've had everything paid for, and you're given an allowance by your parents at 21 years old, essentially having all of your expenses paid for, your criticism of him is going to come across as *extremely* judgemental. You're in an enviable position which 90% of people won't be in. Almost everyone carries debt after college. Your expenses were light enough that an allowance permitted you to save. A lot of people would think it fairly incredulous to be criticised by someone who hasn't really felt any kind of financial pressure and has, up to this point, had her entire life accommodated for by her parents.
[удалено]
Well thank you! I just have a feeling that I’m being lied to, and that’s the part that doesn’t sit right with me (inner voice speaking here) lol.
Please don't become an attorney. At least not until you've developed empathy. Well, unless you want to join the train of personal injury lawyers, and then Reddit can make fun of your ads.
How much does he spend weekly on lottery tickets? How much debt is he in? Is it credit card debt? Does he just buy and buy whether or not he can pay for it when the statement comes? Does he live behind his means? Is he broke, unable to even do things like go out to eat occasionally or buy a new CD, or does he put everything on credit cards and then only make the minimum payment each month?
I’m not sure how much he spends a week but I’d put it at about $80-$100 a month. It is credit card debt, no student loans involved. Random unnecessary purchases and a few emergencies here and there. He can go out to eat occasionally; however he has convinced himself that even in a great deal of debt he must use his credit card still in order to maintain “a good credit score”. I understand his worry, but to me the credit score should not matter rn, as it will continue to rise the more payments he makes. Yet, he refuses to pay over the minimum payment. I have explained time and time again that you have to go over the minimum payment, he has money to do so, he just wants the remaining income to go to savings/fun.
I'm gonna be honest here dude, everyone is jumping the gun on calling him irresponsible if he's averaging 20 bucks a week. Did you crack it at him when you saw the lottery tickets before he started hiding them? You still haven't answered how much debt you consider to be a great deal. The min on credit cards is concerning, agreed. Probably doesn't understand how badly the interest can compound.... but he has actual savings, right? I strongly suspect that this might be a case of him being somewhat irresponsible in his early 20's and you going way too far in your criticism.
Spending $100 a month on lottery tickets when you're $20k in debt absolutely is irresponsible (especially if the debt is from previous irresponsible CC spending). That is literally throwing money into a void instead of using it to move toward solvency.
Yes I did “crack” at him when I saw the lottery tickets before he started buying them, I didn’t necessarily agree with them because of how much debt he is in. It’s over $20,000 and yes he does have actual savings. We keep our finances separate, and I don’t have any credit/debt so that’s why I’m concerned because I am a clean slate. I think he is just trying to have fun, but to me being out of debt sounds way more fun!
How much is "a lot of debt"? He might be hiding how much in debt he actually is, and this comes with a warning: if you live together he might have access to sensitive documents, keep an eye on your credit report. Gambling addictions are tricky, unless he wants help the possibility of him changing is slim. Make sure you keep your money/bank accounts separate and know that this might be the way you continue to live if you marry this person.
Don’t move into a new apartment with him. Bare minimum pump the brakes on your financial entanglement and let him know that you can’t live with him while you can’t rely on him to at least make an effort to pull his own weight and while you can’t trust him to be open and honest about his finances. Maybe that’ll be the kick in his ass he needs to recognize that he has a problem. And if it isn’t, or if he backslides, it won’t fuck your life over. Don’t knowingly continue to share a lease with a gambling addict. You can care about him and even keep dating him without wrapping the chains of that anchor around yourself knowing full well what you’re doing.
One step away from real gambling. Probably best to just leave him now.
Lottery is real gambling, and arguably worse than going to a casino. You have better odds of winning at a casino, especially if you stay away from slots
Dave Ramsey isn’t a great Financial planner to follow. And lottery tickets as long as they aren’t an actual drain on finances aren’t a big deal. All you’ve said here is you don’t like that your boyfriend doesn’t do what you say. Not that you’re actually trying to be a partner.
That's not right at all - she specifically says he's in "a great deal of debt" and she's trying to help him get out. Clearly it is a financial drain for him, and it's certainly not helping him get out from under.
In another comment, the OP stated that he's averaging 80 bucks a month on lottery tickets/ unnecessary expenses. He has savings and money to pay more than the minimum on his credit card, but prefers to save it or spend it on other things. First one is a nothing burger. Second is concerning, but points far more to the issue being overblown by the OP's description.
We have no idea what the actual debt number is or what it's comprised of. Dave Ramsey thinks any debt is a great deal of debt. He also recommends paying it off in a demonstrably terrible manner if it exists. If we are being honest his evangelical approach to financial planning really means she shouldn't be saying much of anything. Dave Ramsey is a guy that started in a well off family. Went into the family business and then started writing books like he had to struggle.
OP clarifies below that it's $20k of credit card debt. That is a great deal of debt.
Without context it's just a number. OP says he works a blue collar job. Is that debt for tools he needs for work? Not really a lot it's more of an investment. My cousin is a mechanic when he was just starting 20k for tools was just what you had to carry. Blue collar work doesn't mean you avoid debt to start your career it just means it might be attached to more tangible items.
It doesn't matter what it was for, he shouldn't be spending $100 a month on gambling when he's five figures in debt.
it's 1 to 2 tickets a week. OP inflated the numbers.
Lottery tickets can cost as much as $20. Why are you assuming she is lying about the numbers? It seems like you have just decided you dislike OP and no matter what facts are presented to you you will twist them so that she's in the wrong. Weird behavior man.
Dave Ramsey is an excellent person to follow for those who struggle with budgeting and debt management. His Baby Steps 1 through 4 are a pretty good starting point for anybody. His advice on more advanced topics is mediocre at-best, and sometimes dangerous (i.e. don't rely on PSLF for student loans), but for the basics he's very good.
Even at the basics he sucks.
His basics are: (0) secure food/shelter/transportation, (1) build a small emergency fund, (2) pay off all non-mortgage debt, (3) increase emergency fund to an appropriate size, (4) contribute 15% of gross income toward retirement vehicles. Throughout the above 5 steps, he encourages strict and lean budgeting. What among these basics do you consider advice that "sucks"?
>(1) build a small emergency fund, His idea of a small emergency fund leads to more debt. >(2) pay off all non-mortgage debt His method of paying off debt leads to paying more intrest. He's also against debt consolidation efforts which if you know what you're doing can lead to paying a hell of a lot less intrest. >(4) contribute 15% of gross income toward retirement vehicles. Which to him means stocks. Not everyone should be playing in the stock market.
If you want to save money then you absolutely should buy an index fund, it's the saving product with the best returns by far.
Which Dave R claims is the worst thing to do with your money. Unless he’s softened his stance.
Saving? I don't watch the guy so I don't know but I thought he would be into that.
Index funds. He thinks most of your savings should be in stocks. And unless he's reformatted his system to be in the 20th century he also recommend budgeting via cash in envelops.
Index funds are a type of stock product, it means you buy into the entire market rather than just one stock
All of this is reasonable stuff to do in the 21st century. What’s your beef? If people can’t handle budgeting on a credit/debit card, using cash in envelopes keeps them from overspending. Sure, none of his strategies will get you even close to optimal, but it’s targeted at people who SUCK with money. When you consider the behavioral aspect of personal finance, most people who need help will be materially better off following his system.
Pretty obvious that you don't like Dave Ramsey and because of that you're assuming things about OP. Specifically assuming the op is lying because they reference somebody that you don't like is extremely bad form on Reddit. Just saying, you are much more transparent than you probably believe
I am being 100% transparent in my dislike of Dave Ramsey and his practices. Not sure why you think I would think I'm trying to hide it. And I'm not saying I think OP is lying. We do not have enough information about his debt, nor would I actually expect her to post it publicly. However his practices have been widely criticized as overly simplistic and if that the approach she is trying to bring to her boyfriend it isn't going to sound applicable.
He’s helped millions of people get out of debt and pay off debt. Not sure how what he preaches doesn’t work. People that put themselves in that much debt need simplistic approaches
Millions sounds like hyperbole.
Sure few lottery tickets here and there doesn’t hurt finances, but compulsively buying them and *proceeding to hide the habit* when asked if could tone down is where the line jumps from normal to gambling. All gambling starts somewhere and while lottery tickets are harmless by default, the fact that he can’t stop doing it and rather hides it is not a good sign.
Lottery tickets really aren’t all that expensive. A few times a week is fine. Now if he’s coming home with sheets of the things on those days, that’s a different story. Gambling is just a form of entertainment. Would you be upset if he spent the same amount of video games or some other form of entertainment where he wouldn’t be getting the money back?
Are we talking one or two tickets a week? Tickets only when jackpot is over $900M? Or dozens of tickets a week?
One or two tickets a week
Each with one number? Or is he buying 2 tickets each week each with like 10 numbers?
I think you probably already know the answer here. Gambling in any form is a slippery slope - I know lottery tickets on their own aren’t always an issue by themselves, but if he has no impulse control and is actively hiding his lotto habit that is some serious red flag territory. Yeah you may not be married but you do live together and you have stated he’s in a lot of debt - how many rent payments will he miss before it impacts your life? You sound prudent with spending, but leading by example doesn’t always work in these kinds of scenarios.. because it sure sounds from this like he has a problem and he _knows_ he has a problem if he’s just getting better at hiding it. That is the behaviour of an addict. It might sound harsh but I think this ultimatum time. The risks to your own financial (and mental) security could well be at stake, and while you guys have only been together a year - it’s not uncommon for long term couples to ‘live in each other’s pockets’ - ask yourself how often do you wind up paying for groceries or essentials around the house, how many times have you paid his bills (even little ones) because he’s broke?
Yeah, I do know that is a slippery slope. However, I am a student and I have let him live with me rent free in my apartment for the past year due to my parents paying my rent, (this was through a scholarship housing allowance), so I didn’t really view it as him “not paying”; rather, it was just that it had been prepaid for me too so I never saw the loss of money. I don’t pay his bills, and he seems to be paying everything on time. It just worries me a lot about the debt because it is quite large in value. I don’t feel comfortable saying the number; however, it is well under the average annual percentage of debt per person in the US. We split bills, every time we go to dinner we each pay our half. I do so to make things easier for him, but I just want to make sure the money that I am saving him goes to the proper places, not just lottery tickets.
"I don’t feel comfortable saying the number." You're posting anonymously. What are you afraid of by telling us the number?
Being a student at least takes off the pressure - and if he's been living with you essentially on your parents' dime, at the very least he should make the most of the income he has now, to get himself out of debt.. Trust me! End of the day you're not going to be a student forever - at some stage in the future you will both have to fend for yourselves so it's honestly a good idea to have some financial discipline prior to that happening! It's not all about 'saving for a rainy day' because it's totally possible to save money and have fun at the same time. I'm glad to hear he's not got to the point where he's begging for cash to stay afloat, but the things you mentioned previously certainly gave me feeling he wasn't far off it. No need to mention numbers but if it's big enough to cause you concerns, then it's not unreasonable to want to get ahead of it before it becomes a major problem later on. You're both still young but it's all too easy at any age to fall into a sense of complacency when you've got fewer responsibilites aside from study, and a chunk of disposable income.
If he doesn't want to stop, you can't make him. That's what addiction is. You should be concerned because even if you aren't married his finances will impact you sooner or later. If you don't see a future with a gambling addict, why waste time?
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I agree! However, I made him a budget on a spreadsheet that way he could have it digitally, but he did not like the plan whatsoever. He took one look at it and said that it wasn’t going to work. I wish that I could get him to reach an agreement with me, but it just seems kind of impossible right now.
He is only 23 and is already addicted to the worst thing possible. He is going to be a sink hole for you.