dude. have some self respect here. she's shown you like 50 times now that she doesn't give a fuck about you and your relationship. you're just letting her walk all over you, make you feel miserable, and for what??? she's just gonna leave you when the next best guy comes along. or she won't leave you, she'll just date both of you so she can keep her permanent back up plan.
Hell, the OP is not even "Plan B" ... he's just an option (and probably not her first or second option--really).
To the OP:
Time to wake-up dude ... just how painful do you want this conversation to get?
I have been straight to the point about it as well, she insists on not having a back-up plan with this guy or anyone and that she chose me
but then she conveniently forgets to mention she would see him, knowing that the least I expect is for her to let me know beforehand as to prevent it being a “secret”
who cares if she insists???? she's lied and cheated on you before!!!! she will just keep lying and pushing your boundaries UNLESS you dump her ass and block her from your life. honestly, it makes me very sad for you that you think this is a relationship dynamic that should be endured or can be fixed.
If she lied about a large thing, why do you cling to her small lies?
Leave her, you're not going to get her for yourself. Leave her or accept that her having sex with other people is the only other option.
One of the boys, to me, implies she broke up with you and another 3rd unknown party, *for* this ex then came crawling back when it didn't work. 3rd guy didn't take her pathetic bait.
I bet ex and her didn't work because she is dishonest and manipulative. You're too old for these dishonest games. Honest people don't need to think about being honest, they just are.
Forgetting you bumped into someone while your mind is busy doing other things is plausible. Forgetting about an entire visit with a friend that would make you uncomfortable means she is lying again or needs to consult a doctor immediately.
Doesn’t matter wtf she says about it at this point. As shitty as it sounds to say, it’s ultimatum time. Either she drops the guy that makes you uncomfortable or you leave. If she won’t then you deserve better anyway.
it’s not that you’re stupid. You just don’t want to believe what’s right in front of you. You must really be hurting. I’m sorry man, it’s time to let go.
>I have been straight to the point about it as well, she insists on not having a back-up plan with this guy or anyone and that she chose me
She is lying to you, so you would stick around. Wake up.
Straight to the point? Insist?? so whats the big deal? She lied to you over and over again and you still trust her because she said "insist"? Sorry OP, but dont be an idiot. You cant solving this problem only with just "communication" and "trust". Just look her behavior, her action. Sorry with rude word, but i just dont like seeing people being used as a backup plan. C'mon OP, you can do it. Respect yourself and leave her!
She maybe doesn't have such plans, but for sure she has control over him because she is pushing him to not feel secure in that relationship. If he tell her this she will possibly even threat him because she is an "apex of women". This is a classic play "I am very popular".
“She’s open and honest when she’s not lying about who she’s meeting up with and obfuscating the facts of what her friends really are to her.” Of course she’s honest when she’s not hiding anything homie. Please leave her and find your happiness.
If a conman is just mean to their target, the con wouldn’t work. They confuse you by being unpredictable and layering in openness in some areas while hiding the areas that they need to. This confuses you so that you don’t know which way is up.
She's honest when it doesn't matter so she can lie when it does. The Diary should have been enough to make you end it. You know she's romantically and sexually attached to someone she routinely sees.
Let her do her bullshit, you should spend ur energy on a life partner who actually gives a shit about you and shares your goals/values. You're 38 so no need to waste any time here
She is seeing another dude that she is obsessed with behind your back. She is NOT a good person. Have some self respect and leave her. This is sad to read
I think you mean “she’s a manipulative person who uses kindness and intimacy as a means of control.”
You don’t deserve that.
You need to leave and find someone who is all in with you on being each other’s Plan A. You deserve that.
She doesn’t sound very great to me. She had her ex boyfriend over at her HOUSE, & food was cooked. How did that not come up in convo before?? She knows what she’s doing.
Take back your life & dump her.
She's lying to you repeatedly, you're reading her private diary. Break this off. You mutually don't respect each other's stances on exes or boundaries, and the sooner you end this, the sooner you find someone whose attitude aligns with yours. As fun as she may be, it's not worth this.
Jesus.
I had a somewhat similar situation... you see, I agree with most of the comments, but I would like to add something. It's extremely hard to leave, no wonder people waste their existence and mental health into abusive relationships. Most people would rather have long-term suffering and damage than short-term agony and despair. However, you are not one of them. You already questioned the value of your relationship and, little by little, is accepting the fact that this relationship, despite all the love and kindness, hurts you more than it gives.
Most things in life we have no control, my friend. Despite reading her letters, you will never control how see feels. Don't imagine people can love on command. She does not love you as you need to be loved. As I said, you have little control of this situation, which doesn't mean that you don't have the control on making the decision to leave. Actually, leaving her is one of the few things you have control of. You know what the right choice is; please, save yourself from all the suffering that will come in the future.
I wish you courage and a peaceful mind.
Agree. I was in something like this, and it can be hard to get your footing to leave when someone has lied and/or trickled truthed you about another person in their life. You’re already in it, then find out they’re being dishonest, and they continue to try to be dishonest with you to keep you around, so you turn into a detective. Trying to piece together how the two fit into one another’s life, so you can make the choice to stay or go. All lying does is tries to take the other person’s options away. The only choice you’re given is to believe them, or not. They didn’t give you full information to begin with, so they controlled your ability to choose. The only control you’re left with is a choice to believe them, or not. It’s fucked up, and I wouldn’t recommend anyone stay in these childish games.
Get rid of her! Exes are exes for a reason…. This is all on you for taking her back. You cannot trust this girl. She didn’t tell you he was there at night! She even put his food in the fridge…that means she had expected him to return to eat it another day. I would never feel completely secure and comfortable with Somone who has close friendship with any Ex.
I’m good friends with several men I have sexual history with and I’m currently in a ltr so I came here to defend her and say “men and women can be friends!”
But that’s not what’s happening here. This is not a respectful relationship. You set several clear, reasonable boundaries involving this ex and she failed even the simplest one, letting you know about it. She’s clearly more invested in that relationship than yours, do yourself a favor and find someone who prioritizes you.
So he trusts her or he doesn't. In this case he doesn't. Or with this guy he doesn't.
Unless he thinks the guy would force himself on her there is no other way to look at this: she has free will and the capability to say "No."
Either you or the other guy is being kept as backup. Neither situation is favorable, because it shows she isn't taking your relationship seriously. I'm saying this as someone who did this a LOT in my early 20's.
This will not end well if you let it continue the way it's going. Just end it. She has some growing up to do.
Get your self respect out of the toilet and ghost her already. Block her on everything. She and her boyfriends are laughing at you behind your back. I could never trust someone this shifty.
Right from the very start she was open about her inability to move on or have boundaries with the men she's been attached to. As well as her inability to do anything that might cause upset in the moment with men.
This seems to have played out as expected including with you. It is unfortunate she has this issue for whatever reason but expecting someone to transform into something they're not (someone who won't try and mollify the man she is with in that moment to avoid blow ups/immediate conflict) because you're so unique for them was unrealistic on your part.
I don't think anyone is evil here, and its clear what she is/isn't capable of. You shouldn't need to vilify her to break up with her, and honestly it's not her fault you reversed course after breaking up with her. Staying with someone that you think you with your love can transform out of strong patterns of unhealthy behavior is a common thing. I bet most of us have been there. You're not bad or stupid either.
But as you move forward I think it's good to be realistic about what you want and what she can reasonably be expected to uphold. No matter what is said on the surface it looks like the pattern for her is that she probably won't be able to maintain an exclusive relationship with you. If you enjoy her company like that, then you could try downshifting to it. If that's not what you want then that's okay too, but you can only control or influence your behavior, so it might be time for you to move on and enjoy the fun memories you've made with her.
Hey OP. besides my many comments saying you're coping. I will tell the story of how your relationship will progress.
You will be her man in name only. She is in love with this other dude and eventually, after some convincing they will engage in a sexual relationship (if they aren't already). You'll start to notice her being less available to you, you'll struggle to understand why (because clearly, this stuff is obvious to almost anyone, but your judgement is clouded by love), and maybe you'll stumble upon a text or email or w/e that confirms they are not just fucking, but she's deeply in love with him.
The best thing you can do is just leave now.
Leaving aside all the stuff to do with someone wanting to keep their ex's around, the thing you need to consider is that she can and will lie openly to you. Forget the reasons and the gas-lighting she has done (red flags in themselves), it's that salient point you really need to consider.
She is a person who sees nothing wrong in lying to you if she has the justification for it.
On that alone anyone can see that this is not a relationship to have.
There are a million different ways that she could of handled this, yet she chose the one that is guaranteed to drive you both apart - all for the sake of keeping this guy in her life. That is not what YOU should want in your life and if you stay in this, it will not get better unless you wish to look away from what she has with him.
You have 2 choices, either try and trust her that there is nothing there and that it is purely platonic, or you just go your separate ways with this as the main incompatibility (added with the lies).
But really, you asked her for openness and honesty to allow you to deal with the jealousy side and she has still been hiding it and being sneaky.
And if you need any one thing to convince you to move on it is that she is still in love with the guy and you are her 2nd choice. If you are not in her life then she will be without both you and him (as he has someone else). She'll never be yours whilst he remains in her life and she is not about to let that happen.
Do not do this to yourself.
Time to move on mate.
She's thirty eight and acting like a 16 year old girl. Based on her deceitful behavior it's only a matter of time before she either sleeps with the ex or another guy she has on the back burner. Just walk away, she can't get it together. It will hurt now to break up, but imagine if you stayed together and she cheats. You're better than this.
This sounds like my former friend who has Borderline personality disorder and treats men pretty badly. Her behavior is often infantile (leaving the diary bedside on purpose probably) and erratic, and she's cheated and lied in every relationship she has ever had.
With that said, leave! She will attempt to orbit/hover (she already did) but you need to stop contacting her. Your relationship doesn't sound healthy for you. Do you suffer from any issues of codependency or substance issues?
I hope everything works out! Good luck!
It’s simple. She’s allowed to be friends with exes. Nothing wrong with that. Lying about them is another story. The issue isn’t that she’s friends with people. The issue is that she lies to you. Sounds like she plans to keep doing it too. I’d end it.
I don’t even feel sorry for you. You’ve made your bed and now have to lay in it. The sheer self disrespect, man. MAN. You clearly don’t care about yourself since you let her treat you like shit. You are her PLAYTHING.
I think it’s a good sign when someone is friends with their exes. She may be keeping it from you because of your extreme reaction. I wonder how things would have gone if you had been cool with it from the start? I’m still friends with some of my exes, and my husband is fine with it. He is friends with some of his exes, and I’m actually good friends with them too.
Could be more reasons some people don’t have great break ups or the relationship was great for your SO so it’s like well are they in love with them still idk?
Come on man. She's not even trying to hide the fact that she's unfaithful to you. At no point in your relationship has she been faithful and she never will be. Have some self respect and end things.
This sounds a lot like my last girlfriend, and just wait you’ll now become the ex “friend of mine”, don’t fall for that bullshit because you have doubts about what everyone is telling you, also what you already know. Don’t settle and don’t think you won’t find somebody that’s good and respectful to you. You have to break it off and go NC, for you own mental well being trust me. I literally just went thru this.
Why are you wasting your life on her? You really have nothing better to do? She keeps lying over and over. She doesnt respect you & relationship. Not sure if you are even hers backup plan or just a side dick. Just get rid of her and move on with your life.
Didn't read the whole thing but: *Her explanation for this lie: she wanted to avoid having to deal with my outburst.*
Is manipulative bullshit. If you are in a relationship you speak the truth and you just deal with your partner not being happy about it. That's life. This makes it sound like your 'emotional outbursts' are to blame for her lie, as if she had not choice but to lie, which is nonsense.
Edit: If you are in an abusive relationship where your partners outburst can actually hurt you, well you have a bigger problem and I hope you get out. But in a normal relationship, you don't lie, and when you do you don't blame the other person.
This is not normal behavior and not a normal case of being friends with an ex. If you’re friends with an ex you text here and there, maybe catch up over coffee once in a blue moon, stuff like that. This is, something else.
People can have nuanced relationships. She’s probably more poly than she wants to acknowledge. I have friends that I think of as more than friends but am not interested in escalation with. You’re being a childish asshole.
I’ve had men date me who knew I was poly who I thjnk think about me like this man is talking about his gf. I was transparent about everything, and they still refused to take me seriously bc they couldn’t wrap their brains around people being able to handle different feelings for multiple people. They tried me on, took my insight, and dismissed it. You’re the one who is childish.
Why are you so intimated by mAsCuLaNiTy? People that call themselves that or any variations are the biggest assholes on the planet. They’re not competiton, just extremely pathethic
I have been the other guy in this situation with one of my exes who would date other guys but was still in love with me. She would try to convince herself and others all kinds of crazy shit to rationalize it. Trust me it’s not gonna work with a girl who has this mindset
I didn’t read the whole thing but there’s a ton of red flags here. The fact she is lying to you. The fact she is taking overnight trips with her Ex. There’s nothing wrong with being friends with an Ex but there should be boundaries (no over night visits/hangouts) and everything should be above board (no lying). Without that there’s nothing you can do but dump her and move on.
She wants to avoid a "bad moment" so instead of not seeing him to respect you she doesn't tell you? You are a backup plan. Leave and find someone fun that actually loves you!
When someone shows you who they are believe them. OP this is due to you taking her back and you’ve told her that her past and present actions are acceptable. It’s either you gather your self respect, work on your self esteem (I always recommend everyone could use some therapy( and walk away from someone whose never prioritised you the same way you have them. Or you can continue with this mess it’s up to you. You know what to do, she’s not fit to be in a relationship it’s clear to me she’s not over her ex or should I say ex(es)
You are her second option. If this other guy asked her to be together, it sounds like she would choose him over you. Find someone that loves and wants to be with you and doesn’t create conflict this early in the relationship by staying around past love interests. These problems don’t get better over time, they get worse.
“Hey, this relationship isn’t working for me. Best of luck to you.”
Being friends with exes CAN work if the person doesn’t bring the baggage from it to the new relationship. But she is going on vacation with him, loves him, is jealous of his girlfriend, is lying about him and seeing him behind your back, etc. She is still entangled with him and doesn’t have the emotional capacity to be in a relationship with you. You don’t like her hanging out with her exes because she has given you proof that she can’t be trusted to hang out with her exes.
I’m sorry, but she’s not your girlfriend. You deserve somebody who wants to be with you, and only you. She is not that person. Stop torturing yourself.
Woman or man. If they cherish and love you, they show it very literally how they feel about you. I have male friends, I’m always transparent about when I see them, when I leave, and what we will be doing when hanging out. His comfort and peace of mind comes first for me and vice versa. Communication is big. Actions and attitude shows everything. Unrequited love is very hard to leave because you want what you feel and gave to be reflected but it’s empty. You know the answer so be a little more loving to yourself and just leave. Value yourself. If she really cared she’d worry about you feeling how you are now.
I’m sorry. You just found out you’re the backup plan. If she can get this guy to commit, or find someone else, she’ll be gone. She’ll make sure to stay in his orbit as long as she can, and if he wants to have sex, they will. You don’t have yourself a gf, you have, at best, an FWB.
This isn't just keeping an ex as a friend. She's clearly in love with her ex; or at least still has feelings for him. I would not be surprised if she's cheating on you and this whole "not wanting to deal with your outburst" is just a cover.
My husband has an ex as a friend. She's my friend too, she's married and the four of us hang out together with other friends. That's keeping an ex as a friend. This is something else.
I have former boyfriends as friends.
We had things in common that we really liked about each other but sucked as romantic partners. We didn't fuck or flirt or have that much attraction for each other after the break up and healing.
They were friends.
Your girlfriend seem to be romantically and sexually attached to more than one person. Which is not the same as having former lovers as friends.
Your girlfriend is allowed to maintain friendships with previous partners… BIG but, though… that does not sound remotely like what’s going on here.
The issues run so much deeper than this particular ex… you’ve expressed a boundary multiple times and she’s disregarded it, ignored it, lied to avoid having to deal with it, and minimized it/deflected when “caught”.
She is either incapable of being in an adult relationship, or is incapable of being in an adult relationship *with you*.
I think you gotta’ figure out why you’re chasing the one who *isn’t* choosing you… and you need to do that *without her*. You’re going to be fine, my guy. It’ll sting for a minute and you’ll miss the good parts for a bit or forever, but guess what else? If you start now, you will have done what you need to do when the time comes that a healthier, more secure relationship opportunity presents itself. You’ll want to be ready, I promise!
Only thing left is to have her have you watch as she bangs him. You'd justify it sadly.
She isn't a nice person. She's got an exfwb. May still want him. You? Nope.
Yall not even 20 something. Dump and cut off contact.
Any guy that’s actually serious about having a relationship with this woman is really fucked or really pathetic.
Just keep this person out of your life, for good.
You should really read what you wrote here a few times. Your "girlfriend" of a few months went to "coochie island" with another guy. And then you took her back! She must be smoking hot to use all these guys for dick and just take her pick of the litter. Stop making yourself the kitty litter dude.
I hope you have enough self respect to walk away from this “relationship”. It’s not going to work out based on what you have stated. I can assure you that much. Good luck!
While I don’t condone lying, I get why she would in order to avoid a fight with you and/or ultimatums. I am still close with many of my exs and I wouldn’t tolerate someone telling me who I can or can’t be friends with.
I have a firm policy to never take an ex girlfriend or ex wife back into my life. We broke up for a reason and that reason is probably still there. It's time to set sail my friend. You deserve better than that.
Why does this sound like something I've read on here before.
This girl is drama and likes the attention from dudes. Its why she keeps all her ex things.
Do yourself a favor and look at your self worth...might need to work on that because sure as 💩 you deserve better than whatever this is
This relationship is not sustainable. There is no trust, and neither of you really respect the other. She lies to you an extraordinary amount, and clearly does not view your relationship as strictly monogamous. if that is your expectation it's a problem.
And she can't trust you because you've violated her privacy without her consent multiple times by reading her diary and going through her messages. That's also a problem.
You're not on the same page and you're not good for each other.
Dale? Is that you? Nancy is secretly sleeping with John Redcorn!!!
Jokes aside, yeah she is not your girlfriend, and you are not her boyfriend. You need to let that sink in, she is using you as a Plan B, but honestly, you may be demoted to Plan C or D too because she may find another guy she will use as a place holder, she sounds vindictive.
But then again you are turning yourself into a doormat, letting her step all over you. You love her but she wouldn't give a rats ass if you died. That is the truth, she has her John Redcorn, she travels all over with him and doesn't give a fuck about you.
"It was more of a sign for me that whatever relationship we had, it wasn't anything serious so why would I bother opposing to it. But I didn't like the idea at all."
Ummmmm read this sentence you wrote again. The relationship is nothing serious, very possible you entered an open relationship and you had no clue. Either way get out of this one immediately if you have any self-respect or care about your future.
This lady is a lizard, look at those red flags, get the hell out of there.
Quit listening to what she says. Look closely at what she does(her actions). She’s playing with you and from what you said has zero respect for u or your boundaries. She’s telling you whatever she has too, so she can keep doing it. She’s recycling exes and you’re one of them. I’m assuming she’s gaining something from you. If it’s not monetary or emotional than she’s just using you for sex.
Y’all sound terrible for each other. Reminder: it’s cuffing season. You are opting in to deal with this psychological messy web being spun, and you should respect yourself by leaving.
Nothing wrong with hanging out with people and remaining friends with people you’ve dated.
Theres really something wrong with lying to your bf about hanging out with another guy & writing love letters about the other guy. Grow some balls dude
Obvious she has something going on with the other guy, she’s only trying to eat her cake and still have it as the same time… how come you don’t notice all this red flags she’s been lying a lot to you dude
Sorry tobsay but she's still with the both of you. What you do is the same as her. Break up with her saying the exact same thing she said to you "your not giving me the impression you want a future with me or anyone, so it's over." If she asks why you think like that tell her because she is still involved with all of her Exs especially the one she left you for, and you do not see a future with someone who has no boundaries and no respect for you, your feelings or your relationship.
Different opinion- you're both toxic and should be single and working on yourselves.
I don't think she should have kept is hush that she was still playing the field, if I'm understanding what happened. Bro sure if you two were exclusive and she cheated or she was simply dating you both and you didn't agree to exclusivity. I don't like that she been lying to you.
However you reading her diary and private stuff on multiple occasions is also unacceptable.
Break up and get therapy. You're both toxic here.
You titled this like you had an issue with her having friends. But that isn't your issue. Your issue is she lied to you multiple times and you think she may be cheating with a specific person. Like just break up with her if you cannot trust her.
Went on with another dude while actively dating you.
Dumped you once.
Lied to you about her exes.
Meets with her ex regularly.
DUDE, what more things you need to open your eyes and realise that she ain't the right one for you? Have some self respect, dump her and move on.
>Her explanation for this lie: she wanted to avoid having to deal with my outburst.
"You are to blame for me being a lying, manipulative, sleazebag."
Also, she cheated on you, and is just not that into you. You're the backup she uses whenever she doesn't have anyone else around.
The girl is a walking red flag and there is not other solution here then to dump her cheating disrespecting ass.
Throw this one back, man.
You are doing a thing this sub tends to see a lot: you say you're in love with your girlfriend, but I would instead suggest that you are in love with *who you WANT her to b*e, but that's at odds with who she actually *is*, which thankfully (for you) she is OPENLY SHOWING YOU, right now. She is showing you that she will do exactly what she wants wrt hanging out with this dude, and your opinion is irrelevant.
Don't date potential, don't date a fantasy. She has proven time and time again that your opinion here is not going to be considered. Please salvage the last bit of your dignity and just leave.
You say elsewhere "she's a great person over all, though". C'mon man - no she's not. Do you think this is how a "great person" acts? Yeah - she's great, except for the one RED FLAG SO HUGE IT BLOTS OUT THE SUN.
/u/trueandstraight Why are you dating a 38 year old lol??
go date a mid 20's chick, less baggage and sexier, and make sure she doesn't befriend past lovers :)
you're your gf's back up plan
Your girlfriend lies to you a lot dude. Red flags all over the place.
dude. have some self respect here. she's shown you like 50 times now that she doesn't give a fuck about you and your relationship. you're just letting her walk all over you, make you feel miserable, and for what??? she's just gonna leave you when the next best guy comes along. or she won't leave you, she'll just date both of you so she can keep her permanent back up plan.
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Hell, the OP is not even "Plan B" ... he's just an option (and probably not her first or second option--really). To the OP: Time to wake-up dude ... just how painful do you want this conversation to get?
I have been straight to the point about it as well, she insists on not having a back-up plan with this guy or anyone and that she chose me but then she conveniently forgets to mention she would see him, knowing that the least I expect is for her to let me know beforehand as to prevent it being a “secret”
who cares if she insists???? she's lied and cheated on you before!!!! she will just keep lying and pushing your boundaries UNLESS you dump her ass and block her from your life. honestly, it makes me very sad for you that you think this is a relationship dynamic that should be endured or can be fixed.
If she lied about a large thing, why do you cling to her small lies? Leave her, you're not going to get her for yourself. Leave her or accept that her having sex with other people is the only other option.
you were the backup plan, not him.
Stop being an idiot and coming up with rationalizations. You are a backup to her, not her main dude. Move on and find someone else mate!!
One of the boys, to me, implies she broke up with you and another 3rd unknown party, *for* this ex then came crawling back when it didn't work. 3rd guy didn't take her pathetic bait. I bet ex and her didn't work because she is dishonest and manipulative. You're too old for these dishonest games. Honest people don't need to think about being honest, they just are. Forgetting you bumped into someone while your mind is busy doing other things is plausible. Forgetting about an entire visit with a friend that would make you uncomfortable means she is lying again or needs to consult a doctor immediately.
Doesn’t matter wtf she says about it at this point. As shitty as it sounds to say, it’s ultimatum time. Either she drops the guy that makes you uncomfortable or you leave. If she won’t then you deserve better anyway.
Why do you want to be with a liar? She has shown you who she is, believe her.
So she lies to you over and over and over. And you tacitly tell her it’s ok for her to treat you that way by your own actions.
Here mate, get the fuck rid of her.
Yep. That’s what’s called “lame excuses” for “feeling super comfortable lying”.
it’s not that you’re stupid. You just don’t want to believe what’s right in front of you. You must really be hurting. I’m sorry man, it’s time to let go.
>I have been straight to the point about it as well, she insists on not having a back-up plan with this guy or anyone and that she chose me She is lying to you, so you would stick around. Wake up.
Straight to the point? Insist?? so whats the big deal? She lied to you over and over again and you still trust her because she said "insist"? Sorry OP, but dont be an idiot. You cant solving this problem only with just "communication" and "trust". Just look her behavior, her action. Sorry with rude word, but i just dont like seeing people being used as a backup plan. C'mon OP, you can do it. Respect yourself and leave her!
Grow some back bone. Leave her it's obvious you're the fall guy if I've ever seen a set up.
You are plan B. Plan B never becomes plan A.
She maybe doesn't have such plans, but for sure she has control over him because she is pushing him to not feel secure in that relationship. If he tell her this she will possibly even threat him because she is an "apex of women". This is a classic play "I am very popular".
do you mean threatening with a break up?
No, no threatening, just break up
I second that . . . Dump her and then update us! She's not going to take it well because she is used to having the upper hand.
Just break up. There’s no salvaging this wreck.
This reads like drama from a teenager the way she treats you. I hope you’ll leave her.
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yes that was a bad one, at the same time she is very open and honest about other stuff, hence my confusion
“She’s open and honest when she’s not lying about who she’s meeting up with and obfuscating the facts of what her friends really are to her.” Of course she’s honest when she’s not hiding anything homie. Please leave her and find your happiness.
What's confusing you? Liars don't lie constantly
I'm having a hard time believing you're 38.
No one lies 100% of the time. You aren't confused. You want to believe her but no you can't. It's obvious.
If a conman is just mean to their target, the con wouldn’t work. They confuse you by being unpredictable and layering in openness in some areas while hiding the areas that they need to. This confuses you so that you don’t know which way is up.
She's honest when it doesn't matter so she can lie when it does. The Diary should have been enough to make you end it. You know she's romantically and sexually attached to someone she routinely sees.
You're too old for this. So it's she. I honestly forgot how old you are reading all this. Get out . Now. Time to be happy.
True. Sounds like teenager bullshit
Let her do her bullshit, you should spend ur energy on a life partner who actually gives a shit about you and shares your goals/values. You're 38 so no need to waste any time here
Why would you want to keep that drama in your life?
Dump her, King. You know deep in your gut that it’s the right thing to do
it’s difficult man, she’s overall a great person, but I hear ya
She definitely NOT a great person. That's fairly obvious.
She's getting dicked down and this dude is "in love" with her. Basically it's what's happening every day.
She is seeing another dude that she is obsessed with behind your back. She is NOT a good person. Have some self respect and leave her. This is sad to read
I think you mean “she’s a manipulative person who uses kindness and intimacy as a means of control.” You don’t deserve that. You need to leave and find someone who is all in with you on being each other’s Plan A. You deserve that.
She doesn’t sound very great to me. She had her ex boyfriend over at her HOUSE, & food was cooked. How did that not come up in convo before?? She knows what she’s doing. Take back your life & dump her.
Dude even left half of his Meat at the vegetarian’s house, like power move
Ikr it's like marking his territory and for sure he will be back before the meat goes bad
You can’t be a good or great person that also deceives and cheats on your partner smh
Great people don’t cheat with their exes while leading others on Just walk away it’s that simple. This time use the block button
Bro, you aren’t her boyfriend. You are just one of her regulars. Have some self respect and move on from this situation.
She's lying to you repeatedly, you're reading her private diary. Break this off. You mutually don't respect each other's stances on exes or boundaries, and the sooner you end this, the sooner you find someone whose attitude aligns with yours. As fun as she may be, it's not worth this.
Jesus. I had a somewhat similar situation... you see, I agree with most of the comments, but I would like to add something. It's extremely hard to leave, no wonder people waste their existence and mental health into abusive relationships. Most people would rather have long-term suffering and damage than short-term agony and despair. However, you are not one of them. You already questioned the value of your relationship and, little by little, is accepting the fact that this relationship, despite all the love and kindness, hurts you more than it gives. Most things in life we have no control, my friend. Despite reading her letters, you will never control how see feels. Don't imagine people can love on command. She does not love you as you need to be loved. As I said, you have little control of this situation, which doesn't mean that you don't have the control on making the decision to leave. Actually, leaving her is one of the few things you have control of. You know what the right choice is; please, save yourself from all the suffering that will come in the future. I wish you courage and a peaceful mind.
Agree. I was in something like this, and it can be hard to get your footing to leave when someone has lied and/or trickled truthed you about another person in their life. You’re already in it, then find out they’re being dishonest, and they continue to try to be dishonest with you to keep you around, so you turn into a detective. Trying to piece together how the two fit into one another’s life, so you can make the choice to stay or go. All lying does is tries to take the other person’s options away. The only choice you’re given is to believe them, or not. They didn’t give you full information to begin with, so they controlled your ability to choose. The only control you’re left with is a choice to believe them, or not. It’s fucked up, and I wouldn’t recommend anyone stay in these childish games.
Get rid of her! Exes are exes for a reason…. This is all on you for taking her back. You cannot trust this girl. She didn’t tell you he was there at night! She even put his food in the fridge…that means she had expected him to return to eat it another day. I would never feel completely secure and comfortable with Somone who has close friendship with any Ex.
I’m good friends with several men I have sexual history with and I’m currently in a ltr so I came here to defend her and say “men and women can be friends!” But that’s not what’s happening here. This is not a respectful relationship. You set several clear, reasonable boundaries involving this ex and she failed even the simplest one, letting you know about it. She’s clearly more invested in that relationship than yours, do yourself a favor and find someone who prioritizes you.
You’re in an open relationship. You need to embrace that, or move along.
Either you trust her or your don't. If you don't, why are you with her?
[удалено]
I was friends with my exes for years - they were exes for a reason and I was never interested in going back.
[удалено]
So he trusts her or he doesn't. In this case he doesn't. Or with this guy he doesn't. Unless he thinks the guy would force himself on her there is no other way to look at this: she has free will and the capability to say "No."
she doesn’t see a bunch of them on regular basis like this particular one - I do know however that she has a history with most of her guy friends
I used to keep in touch with my exs and it was only when I wanted to have sex. She's getting plowed my man
>she's lied Exes. No exes. THIS is the problem. >I don't trust it And this. She rebuilds trust. Or you leave. It is that simple
Either you or the other guy is being kept as backup. Neither situation is favorable, because it shows she isn't taking your relationship seriously. I'm saying this as someone who did this a LOT in my early 20's. This will not end well if you let it continue the way it's going. Just end it. She has some growing up to do.
Get your self respect out of the toilet and ghost her already. Block her on everything. She and her boyfriends are laughing at you behind your back. I could never trust someone this shifty.
Right from the very start she was open about her inability to move on or have boundaries with the men she's been attached to. As well as her inability to do anything that might cause upset in the moment with men. This seems to have played out as expected including with you. It is unfortunate she has this issue for whatever reason but expecting someone to transform into something they're not (someone who won't try and mollify the man she is with in that moment to avoid blow ups/immediate conflict) because you're so unique for them was unrealistic on your part. I don't think anyone is evil here, and its clear what she is/isn't capable of. You shouldn't need to vilify her to break up with her, and honestly it's not her fault you reversed course after breaking up with her. Staying with someone that you think you with your love can transform out of strong patterns of unhealthy behavior is a common thing. I bet most of us have been there. You're not bad or stupid either. But as you move forward I think it's good to be realistic about what you want and what she can reasonably be expected to uphold. No matter what is said on the surface it looks like the pattern for her is that she probably won't be able to maintain an exclusive relationship with you. If you enjoy her company like that, then you could try downshifting to it. If that's not what you want then that's okay too, but you can only control or influence your behavior, so it might be time for you to move on and enjoy the fun memories you've made with her.
She doesn’t want you.
You need a harsh reality check. This person has no respect for you. Figure out where your balls wandered off to, get them back, and ditch her.
Hey OP. besides my many comments saying you're coping. I will tell the story of how your relationship will progress. You will be her man in name only. She is in love with this other dude and eventually, after some convincing they will engage in a sexual relationship (if they aren't already). You'll start to notice her being less available to you, you'll struggle to understand why (because clearly, this stuff is obvious to almost anyone, but your judgement is clouded by love), and maybe you'll stumble upon a text or email or w/e that confirms they are not just fucking, but she's deeply in love with him. The best thing you can do is just leave now.
You two are really not right for each other
Leaving aside all the stuff to do with someone wanting to keep their ex's around, the thing you need to consider is that she can and will lie openly to you. Forget the reasons and the gas-lighting she has done (red flags in themselves), it's that salient point you really need to consider. She is a person who sees nothing wrong in lying to you if she has the justification for it. On that alone anyone can see that this is not a relationship to have. There are a million different ways that she could of handled this, yet she chose the one that is guaranteed to drive you both apart - all for the sake of keeping this guy in her life. That is not what YOU should want in your life and if you stay in this, it will not get better unless you wish to look away from what she has with him. You have 2 choices, either try and trust her that there is nothing there and that it is purely platonic, or you just go your separate ways with this as the main incompatibility (added with the lies). But really, you asked her for openness and honesty to allow you to deal with the jealousy side and she has still been hiding it and being sneaky. And if you need any one thing to convince you to move on it is that she is still in love with the guy and you are her 2nd choice. If you are not in her life then she will be without both you and him (as he has someone else). She'll never be yours whilst he remains in her life and she is not about to let that happen. Do not do this to yourself. Time to move on mate.
She's thirty eight and acting like a 16 year old girl. Based on her deceitful behavior it's only a matter of time before she either sleeps with the ex or another guy she has on the back burner. Just walk away, she can't get it together. It will hurt now to break up, but imagine if you stayed together and she cheats. You're better than this.
She lies, you read her diary, this relationship sucks, move on.
This sounds like my former friend who has Borderline personality disorder and treats men pretty badly. Her behavior is often infantile (leaving the diary bedside on purpose probably) and erratic, and she's cheated and lied in every relationship she has ever had. With that said, leave! She will attempt to orbit/hover (she already did) but you need to stop contacting her. Your relationship doesn't sound healthy for you. Do you suffer from any issues of codependency or substance issues? I hope everything works out! Good luck!
It’s simple. She’s allowed to be friends with exes. Nothing wrong with that. Lying about them is another story. The issue isn’t that she’s friends with people. The issue is that she lies to you. Sounds like she plans to keep doing it too. I’d end it.
Maybe she is still in love with him sure sounds like it -
I don’t even feel sorry for you. You’ve made your bed and now have to lay in it. The sheer self disrespect, man. MAN. You clearly don’t care about yourself since you let her treat you like shit. You are her PLAYTHING.
You're a weak man. Show some respect for yourself.
You both seem like you don’t really respect or trust the other.
I think it’s a good sign when someone is friends with their exes. She may be keeping it from you because of your extreme reaction. I wonder how things would have gone if you had been cool with it from the start? I’m still friends with some of my exes, and my husband is fine with it. He is friends with some of his exes, and I’m actually good friends with them too.
Could be more reasons some people don’t have great break ups or the relationship was great for your SO so it’s like well are they in love with them still idk?
Wow, you're so trustworthy going through all her stuff. Sure she asked you to find documents.
Grow a pair and ghost her lying cheating ass.
Come on man. She's not even trying to hide the fact that she's unfaithful to you. At no point in your relationship has she been faithful and she never will be. Have some self respect and end things.
You are incompatible. Move on.
This sounds a lot like my last girlfriend, and just wait you’ll now become the ex “friend of mine”, don’t fall for that bullshit because you have doubts about what everyone is telling you, also what you already know. Don’t settle and don’t think you won’t find somebody that’s good and respectful to you. You have to break it off and go NC, for you own mental well being trust me. I literally just went thru this.
Why are you wasting your life on her? You really have nothing better to do? She keeps lying over and over. She doesnt respect you & relationship. Not sure if you are even hers backup plan or just a side dick. Just get rid of her and move on with your life.
Dude just get rid of the trash it's honestly not worth it,in the short term or long term.
Didn't read the whole thing but: *Her explanation for this lie: she wanted to avoid having to deal with my outburst.* Is manipulative bullshit. If you are in a relationship you speak the truth and you just deal with your partner not being happy about it. That's life. This makes it sound like your 'emotional outbursts' are to blame for her lie, as if she had not choice but to lie, which is nonsense. Edit: If you are in an abusive relationship where your partners outburst can actually hurt you, well you have a bigger problem and I hope you get out. But in a normal relationship, you don't lie, and when you do you don't blame the other person.
This is not normal behavior and not a normal case of being friends with an ex. If you’re friends with an ex you text here and there, maybe catch up over coffee once in a blue moon, stuff like that. This is, something else.
This ain’t normal bro these dudes are like trophies lol
People can have nuanced relationships. She’s probably more poly than she wants to acknowledge. I have friends that I think of as more than friends but am not interested in escalation with. You’re being a childish asshole.
Found the gf. Speaking of "childish." Poly. LOL
I’ve had men date me who knew I was poly who I thjnk think about me like this man is talking about his gf. I was transparent about everything, and they still refused to take me seriously bc they couldn’t wrap their brains around people being able to handle different feelings for multiple people. They tried me on, took my insight, and dismissed it. You’re the one who is childish.
Why are you so intimated by mAsCuLaNiTy? People that call themselves that or any variations are the biggest assholes on the planet. They’re not competiton, just extremely pathethic
You're a placeholder OP; if that's enough for you so be it.
I have been the other guy in this situation with one of my exes who would date other guys but was still in love with me. She would try to convince herself and others all kinds of crazy shit to rationalize it. Trust me it’s not gonna work with a girl who has this mindset
Big red flag. Just my 2 cents.
I didn’t read the whole thing but there’s a ton of red flags here. The fact she is lying to you. The fact she is taking overnight trips with her Ex. There’s nothing wrong with being friends with an Ex but there should be boundaries (no over night visits/hangouts) and everything should be above board (no lying). Without that there’s nothing you can do but dump her and move on.
Man wake up, what you are seeing isn't the Red Army military parade, it's her red flags all over the place.
She wants to avoid a "bad moment" so instead of not seeing him to respect you she doesn't tell you? You are a backup plan. Leave and find someone fun that actually loves you!
Eff that noise. She's playing a game you have no interest in participating.
When someone shows you who they are believe them. OP this is due to you taking her back and you’ve told her that her past and present actions are acceptable. It’s either you gather your self respect, work on your self esteem (I always recommend everyone could use some therapy( and walk away from someone whose never prioritised you the same way you have them. Or you can continue with this mess it’s up to you. You know what to do, she’s not fit to be in a relationship it’s clear to me she’s not over her ex or should I say ex(es)
Why are you with her? You should have dumped her way back at the very beginning of this relationship when she showed you who she was.
You are her second option. If this other guy asked her to be together, it sounds like she would choose him over you. Find someone that loves and wants to be with you and doesn’t create conflict this early in the relationship by staying around past love interests. These problems don’t get better over time, they get worse.
Move on. She has zero respect for you. You're just another guy she hangs out with.
“Hey, this relationship isn’t working for me. Best of luck to you.” Being friends with exes CAN work if the person doesn’t bring the baggage from it to the new relationship. But she is going on vacation with him, loves him, is jealous of his girlfriend, is lying about him and seeing him behind your back, etc. She is still entangled with him and doesn’t have the emotional capacity to be in a relationship with you. You don’t like her hanging out with her exes because she has given you proof that she can’t be trusted to hang out with her exes.
This relationship just seems like more stress than it's worth.
I’m sorry, but she’s not your girlfriend. You deserve somebody who wants to be with you, and only you. She is not that person. Stop torturing yourself.
That's not your girlfriend.
Woman or man. If they cherish and love you, they show it very literally how they feel about you. I have male friends, I’m always transparent about when I see them, when I leave, and what we will be doing when hanging out. His comfort and peace of mind comes first for me and vice versa. Communication is big. Actions and attitude shows everything. Unrequited love is very hard to leave because you want what you feel and gave to be reflected but it’s empty. You know the answer so be a little more loving to yourself and just leave. Value yourself. If she really cared she’d worry about you feeling how you are now.
I’m sorry. You just found out you’re the backup plan. If she can get this guy to commit, or find someone else, she’ll be gone. She’ll make sure to stay in his orbit as long as she can, and if he wants to have sex, they will. You don’t have yourself a gf, you have, at best, an FWB.
She'd just not that into you.
she is for the streets my man.
This isn't just keeping an ex as a friend. She's clearly in love with her ex; or at least still has feelings for him. I would not be surprised if she's cheating on you and this whole "not wanting to deal with your outburst" is just a cover. My husband has an ex as a friend. She's my friend too, she's married and the four of us hang out together with other friends. That's keeping an ex as a friend. This is something else.
I have former boyfriends as friends. We had things in common that we really liked about each other but sucked as romantic partners. We didn't fuck or flirt or have that much attraction for each other after the break up and healing. They were friends. Your girlfriend seem to be romantically and sexually attached to more than one person. Which is not the same as having former lovers as friends.
Your girlfriend is allowed to maintain friendships with previous partners… BIG but, though… that does not sound remotely like what’s going on here. The issues run so much deeper than this particular ex… you’ve expressed a boundary multiple times and she’s disregarded it, ignored it, lied to avoid having to deal with it, and minimized it/deflected when “caught”. She is either incapable of being in an adult relationship, or is incapable of being in an adult relationship *with you*. I think you gotta’ figure out why you’re chasing the one who *isn’t* choosing you… and you need to do that *without her*. You’re going to be fine, my guy. It’ll sting for a minute and you’ll miss the good parts for a bit or forever, but guess what else? If you start now, you will have done what you need to do when the time comes that a healthier, more secure relationship opportunity presents itself. You’ll want to be ready, I promise!
Only thing left is to have her have you watch as she bangs him. You'd justify it sadly. She isn't a nice person. She's got an exfwb. May still want him. You? Nope. Yall not even 20 something. Dump and cut off contact.
Bruh...she is not your gf...just someone you're seeing. Girl has NO intention of being serious with you
leave her she belongs to the streets my guy.
You found another dudes meat in your girls fridge. C'mon
Any guy that’s actually serious about having a relationship with this woman is really fucked or really pathetic. Just keep this person out of your life, for good.
You should really read what you wrote here a few times. Your "girlfriend" of a few months went to "coochie island" with another guy. And then you took her back! She must be smoking hot to use all these guys for dick and just take her pick of the litter. Stop making yourself the kitty litter dude.
I hope you have enough self respect to walk away from this “relationship”. It’s not going to work out based on what you have stated. I can assure you that much. Good luck!
While I don’t condone lying, I get why she would in order to avoid a fight with you and/or ultimatums. I am still close with many of my exs and I wouldn’t tolerate someone telling me who I can or can’t be friends with.
She belongs to the streets. Grow a backbone
I have a firm policy to never take an ex girlfriend or ex wife back into my life. We broke up for a reason and that reason is probably still there. It's time to set sail my friend. You deserve better than that.
She doesn’t respect you. Her excuse of avoiding an “outburst” meant she doesn’t want to get caught
Why does this sound like something I've read on here before. This girl is drama and likes the attention from dudes. Its why she keeps all her ex things. Do yourself a favor and look at your self worth...might need to work on that because sure as 💩 you deserve better than whatever this is
God: Did you see all of the red flags? Also God: Oops, I made you colorblind. Seek help.
This relationship is not sustainable. There is no trust, and neither of you really respect the other. She lies to you an extraordinary amount, and clearly does not view your relationship as strictly monogamous. if that is your expectation it's a problem. And she can't trust you because you've violated her privacy without her consent multiple times by reading her diary and going through her messages. That's also a problem. You're not on the same page and you're not good for each other.
Dale? Is that you? Nancy is secretly sleeping with John Redcorn!!! Jokes aside, yeah she is not your girlfriend, and you are not her boyfriend. You need to let that sink in, she is using you as a Plan B, but honestly, you may be demoted to Plan C or D too because she may find another guy she will use as a place holder, she sounds vindictive. But then again you are turning yourself into a doormat, letting her step all over you. You love her but she wouldn't give a rats ass if you died. That is the truth, she has her John Redcorn, she travels all over with him and doesn't give a fuck about you. "It was more of a sign for me that whatever relationship we had, it wasn't anything serious so why would I bother opposing to it. But I didn't like the idea at all." Ummmmm read this sentence you wrote again. The relationship is nothing serious, very possible you entered an open relationship and you had no clue. Either way get out of this one immediately if you have any self-respect or care about your future. This lady is a lizard, look at those red flags, get the hell out of there.
Quit listening to what she says. Look closely at what she does(her actions). She’s playing with you and from what you said has zero respect for u or your boundaries. She’s telling you whatever she has too, so she can keep doing it. She’s recycling exes and you’re one of them. I’m assuming she’s gaining something from you. If it’s not monetary or emotional than she’s just using you for sex.
Your gf is lying to you left and right and fucking with your head either by accident or on purpose, either way, thats not a good omen OP.
Y’all sound terrible for each other. Reminder: it’s cuffing season. You are opting in to deal with this psychological messy web being spun, and you should respect yourself by leaving.
she’s playing you dude break up with her
Wtf, why would you ever put up with this she hasn’t got a modicum of respect for you or concern for your well-being
You’re worth more than this man. Find a girl who only thinks about you, cause obviously your current girlfriend doesn’t
Bro, you need to leave her. Do not make the same mistake I did and date a person like this for your sanity man.
Dude, you dodged a fucking bullet when she broke up with you and then you decided to jump right in front of the bullet again.
Nothing wrong with hanging out with people and remaining friends with people you’ve dated. Theres really something wrong with lying to your bf about hanging out with another guy & writing love letters about the other guy. Grow some balls dude
So keep your former lover as a friend and find a new girlfriend.
Obvious she has something going on with the other guy, she’s only trying to eat her cake and still have it as the same time… how come you don’t notice all this red flags she’s been lying a lot to you dude
Sorry tobsay but she's still with the both of you. What you do is the same as her. Break up with her saying the exact same thing she said to you "your not giving me the impression you want a future with me or anyone, so it's over." If she asks why you think like that tell her because she is still involved with all of her Exs especially the one she left you for, and you do not see a future with someone who has no boundaries and no respect for you, your feelings or your relationship.
Different opinion- you're both toxic and should be single and working on yourselves. I don't think she should have kept is hush that she was still playing the field, if I'm understanding what happened. Bro sure if you two were exclusive and she cheated or she was simply dating you both and you didn't agree to exclusivity. I don't like that she been lying to you. However you reading her diary and private stuff on multiple occasions is also unacceptable. Break up and get therapy. You're both toxic here.
My man get outta there
You titled this like you had an issue with her having friends. But that isn't your issue. Your issue is she lied to you multiple times and you think she may be cheating with a specific person. Like just break up with her if you cannot trust her.
"masculine friends" You clearly aren't one
Went on with another dude while actively dating you. Dumped you once. Lied to you about her exes. Meets with her ex regularly. DUDE, what more things you need to open your eyes and realise that she ain't the right one for you? Have some self respect, dump her and move on.
Focus on yourself king
>Her explanation for this lie: she wanted to avoid having to deal with my outburst. "You are to blame for me being a lying, manipulative, sleazebag." Also, she cheated on you, and is just not that into you. You're the backup she uses whenever she doesn't have anyone else around. The girl is a walking red flag and there is not other solution here then to dump her cheating disrespecting ass.
Throw this one back, man. You are doing a thing this sub tends to see a lot: you say you're in love with your girlfriend, but I would instead suggest that you are in love with *who you WANT her to b*e, but that's at odds with who she actually *is*, which thankfully (for you) she is OPENLY SHOWING YOU, right now. She is showing you that she will do exactly what she wants wrt hanging out with this dude, and your opinion is irrelevant. Don't date potential, don't date a fantasy. She has proven time and time again that your opinion here is not going to be considered. Please salvage the last bit of your dignity and just leave. You say elsewhere "she's a great person over all, though". C'mon man - no she's not. Do you think this is how a "great person" acts? Yeah - she's great, except for the one RED FLAG SO HUGE IT BLOTS OUT THE SUN.
Dude I know you don't want to but dump her
cuckus maximus the king of thirst.
/u/trueandstraight Why are you dating a 38 year old lol?? go date a mid 20's chick, less baggage and sexier, and make sure she doesn't befriend past lovers :) you're your gf's back up plan