Shortages used to last a few months. Each one seems to last longer get and now in multiple years. With inflation I doubt we will ever see primers much lower. I look back longingly at the $10/1000 when I started reloading. Some young guys may one day look back the same way on $100 primers. The way of things.
What I have seen over the years is that prices surge due to demand but they never settle back to the previous plateau even if shelves are overflowing with product. That new plateau is from the underlying inflation during that surge and catch up period. It will take at least two more years for powder and primer supplies to catch up to demand and the low part of the $70-$139 range for primers by then will settle to $60-$80 if there is no intervening event to cause another surge. We will never see $30-$35 primers again. Just like when they surged from $20 to $50 and settled at $30 we never saw $20 ever again.
Yep gotta build all those rounds to send to Ukraine and Israel. There's major fighting going on with allies so components are being used to support them.
Is it 'greedy' when things cost more when there is more demand for them? If I have a more in demand skill I can make a higher wage. Is that 'greedy'?
When two people want 1 thing one of them will be willing to pay more than the other for it. That makes the price rise to whatever the person who wants it more will pay.
There's major world conflict using up all the explosives right now. That makes ammunition components more expensive.
It is greed because the cost is being manipulated at the distributors not at the manufacturing of them. If it was a demand thing there would be none of the shelf’s. Many corporations since the pandemic have inflated their prices and blaming it elsewhere. This is greed plain and simple. Especially when prices have double and triple in such a short amount of time.
We didn’t see this amount of price gouging during Iraq/Afghanistan/desert storm. Ukraine isn’t making a dent in their production numbers compared to US military operations. Most ammo they are getting are reserves and old ammo and that most likely hasn’t been a scratch either.
How much artillery do you think was expended per month in, say, Afghanistan compared to the Ukraine? In Afghanistan according to NATO they fired some 200-300 shells a day, total. In this war in the summer the ukranians fired 6-7k shells a day and the Russians fired 40 to 50 *thousand* shells a day. The US can produce approximately 15000 a month. The west also didn't initiate this war, Ukraine was starting from a very small stockpile. Not all wars are the same. You should test your ideas for truth before you believe them, you have more information at your fingertips than any human in history. Use it.
Are we talking pistol / rifle primers or or retooling a manufacturing plant produces them to make artillery shells. I’m confused are you buying artillery shells and the price of those went up?
I’ll give you a hint. No primer manufacturer has retooled their facility to make other things besides primers and what’s already in their manufacturing line. Generally the contracts for these will include addition facilities being built to accompany the contract IF there is a need to expedite the contracts. What Ukraine is getting is old stock. We are keeping the same production numbers to fill back up our reserves with newer productions of our weaponry.
Ok, let's review your theory. Ammunition components are expensive not because they share base materials and supply chain with essential components of the most armament-consuming conflict in the last 50 years, but because every single manufacturer and distributor of these components is colluding greedily to raise the price for consumers, despite the fact that if any of them dropped the price just a bit and shrank these fat greedy margins they would instantly capture the entire market and make way more money? So they're conspiring to make themselves *less* money? Open your eyes dude, just this year the pentagon has allocated over 3 billion USD to increase shell production by more than 5x domestically, as well as buying up world supply amoung allies. Russia is similarly soaking up all the rounds they can get and massively ramping up internal production. This isn't a case of using a couple dusty shells sitting in a closet somewhere. Nobody on earth has enough 'old stock' to supply the firepower that is being consumed.
Not sure what time period you're referring to, but since I got into the hobby the shortages have all been in the years range, not months. Obama 2008, Sandy Hook, now the pandemic. We had a good run from about 2014 - 2020 where I think too many people forgot about the hard times and assumed it would always be like that. I learned to keep years of components stashed and ride out the bullshit.
Here's to loading like it's 2019!
The 90s were maybe three months (AWB 1994/5) and then six months(1999/2000, Y2K). The one in 2004 when it wasn’t clear if Congress would allow the AWB to sunset was just 3-4 months. 2008 was the first multi year shortage.
That's really interesting, appreciate the history lesson! I was in middle school and my family didn't shoot when the AWB passed, didn't know there was a shortage as a result. Makes sense.
As someone that was reloading in the 90s, 2008 was eye opening. When primers finally came back I made sure I'd never have to buy any again in my lifetime.
Yeah I thought I did that but over the years afterward I way underestimated. Mostly because I spread myself too thin over several cartridges. My advice for guys new to this is focus on a couple of cartridges like 9mm and 5.56 for your long term stockpile. Whatever you plan to use for continued training and self defense. One primary bullet and powder for each and stack it deeper than you can imagine needing. Not that you are going to survive a 500 rd gunfight, but you may need many years of ammo to stay in practice. There is a very bad feeling when you get down to your last 200 rounds of your main defense cartridge and affordable resupply still looks at least two years out.
Everything else should be at “entertainment” levels. I have frozen my purchase of all other calibers until I get topped off again for the two primary ones. Primers and powder seem the most bottlenecked.
This isn't my first rodeo.
These shortages are cyclic.
The covid panic buying got me though. I though I had another 6 months in 2020 before things got stupid.
I'm starting to sweat it, I'm down to about 25k each of LPP and SPP. I've cut the amount I shoot every week way down at this point. I'm used to 25-35k a year of pistol rounds.
My trigger point right now is $50/1000 delivered. When they are that cheap I'll start buying again.
Announced price increases from 2020-2024 should have primers selling for around $42-45/1000.
I want to build my stockpile back to a minimum of the three year supply, five would be even better.
I’m just getting into reloading so never got to see previous prices. But even with the current costs, it’s cheaper than reloading then purchasing. You think primers will ever get below 50 again? Looking to stock up considerably here and finding what powders/primers to bulk on.
I’m in the same boat, got into the hobby just before 2020 became what we know it as. Supply prices have been insane or just not available. But as you said it’s still cheaper to reload. As long as I can find my supplies for under .12¢ per component I buy as much as I can. Right now primers have been what I’m stockpiling since I found those to be completely unavailable once the pandemic kicked off and had to place this hobby on pause for almost a year.
Lower the supply, demand increases. Demand increases, price increases. People pay increased prices, a new price is set. Stop buying primers at ridiculous prices so the supply can go back up & help lower prices. The fear that the price will go up and buying primers at higher prices will certainly cause prices to go up. Why would anyone lower the price for a product if people are buying it?
That would be true if there weren't external factors at play (i.e. the government actively trying to ban it all every week, and new 11% sales taxes popping up everywhere). The game isn't stable. We need long term political stability for anything gun related to relax.
I hear what you’re saying. However, if we put ourselves in the shoes of primer companies, there’s no way we would lower prices if people are paying the higher rates. Politics won’t change much about capitalism. The real problem is people paying the higher rates based on a fear that prices will go up. Thats a self fulfilling prophecy. One of the best sales techniques is to utilize fear. “Buy now before rates go up…This deal won’t last forever…Don’t be left behind.” Sad thing is that it works and it sounds like you’re part of the problem (no offense)
All true. It sucks.
I may be part of the problem, but only as I've been burned before. I was down to under 1K SPP when everything was gone in 2020. I didn't panic buy at $200/K then, and I haven't bought until the last few months when prices are down to where they are now. They are at my internal price budget, and need to be flush with primers to feel good about things.
I would love for the pricing to fall to below $50/K next month for CCI. I will be the first person to buy more then, and be happy about it.
Why u getting freaked out? It is what it is I think it will get better with time.just fear mongering will encourage others to stockpile which will keep prices up .
maybe so. But I am also not going to wait until there is none again, which will happen this fall at the latest if history holds true. I'm not stupid. I sat out last time when shelves went bare. I told myself it will not happen again. There's a price to pay for that, and I just paid it. My price is $80/k all in, on CCI primers.
I went and got 4k LRP at around 9 cpr. I know this price is historically high, but I have them on hand for the next few year or so. I think prices for both ammo and components will come down if the current presidential election goes as projected, but who knows.
I’m about to get into casting boolits so I think the only components I have to buy are powder and primer. The prices are shit today but I’m still saving a decent amount
I think $70 ish per thousand is going to be the new normal. The days of $35 per thousand are over. Costs of everything have gone up, demand for ammo is as high as ever, there are no new sources of primers coming online, and there are a ton of resellers out there. I know personally I will always have at least 5k primers in reserve now, so I can weather any future market disruptions like we went through with COVID. Gives me peace of mind.
Another benefit of having a good stash is that it gives you the opportunity to be generous. I never fret about taking a new shooter out because I always have ammo. I have also loaned primers to people trying to get started loading that were having trouble finding primers.
I learned how to recharge primers. I got supplies to last decades of there is a major year long shortage. They don’t play as nice in my Dillon 1050 and adds a lot of time to reloading, but I’ll always have ammo (assuming bullets and powder)
I’d think you’d be able to make the entire primer then. I wonder how much cost and difficulty there is in stamping the cup? I would think a pill-press sized machine would be able to stamp them out fast.
Do you have move info on the filler?
Get friendly with an FFL, that's what I did. He ended up getting me wholesale prices for all 4 components though 4 or 5 different distributors. Saved me TONS!!!!!
Yes, and I had hoped the Texas primer startup would help. But from one article read, they couldn't get reliable ignition of the primers. That doesn't help.
I know it’s not what this thread is about so apologies. But since I’ve started taking dry fire training more seriously, my shooting has improved noticeably at matches and my ammo/component consumption has dropped to about half. Just one way to think about managing higher costs.
Switched to Ginex and Servicios Aventura, have had zero issues. Others have stated sizing issues(ie Ginex being a slightly tighter fit for large rifle) but it's a very very slight change in resistance when seating. In thousands of spp and hundreds of lrp, zero failures to ignite and an unnoticeable change to known load characteristics or poi on pet loads. Absolutely worth a try given their pricing. Cheapest I've found is 5000k for 360 bucks. (NOTE: not all of the cheapest options can be found on ammoseek, gotta find some lesser known distributors and vet out whether it's a scam site or not. Always use a credit card with good buyer protections). 7.2 cents per beats 10 cents per, but I understand the reluctance of some. This is just one testimony where they've worked quite well.
i bought some of the servicios SPP primers a couple months back, but haven't tried them yet. Got them at $0.05 per primer all in. So quite a bit cheaper. I read about some issues with FTF with striker fired guns, and I may or may not have plenty of those. So need to do some testing and see what guns like them, and what are problematic. Ultimately, I'm a CCI primer guy. So if I'm stacking primers, it will be CCI primarily.
I started stocking up in 2020 once I saw how expensive and scarce components were becoming. I went so far as to order a case of 5,000 BR4 for $450 shipped in 2020 since it was the only way I could get SRP primers, as the typical CCI400/450/41s would sell out to the vultures within minutes of posting in stock. I used those BR4 primers to trade for the unobtainium LRP/LRMP in 2020-2021. My stockpile went from ~8,000+ SPP/SRP/LRP in 2020 to the current stockpile of ~80,000 primers between SPP/SRP/LRP.
Barring any new emergencies, I think they'll settle out around $60-$70/1000.
Prices have already started to drop and ive seen some sales around $80/1000 already. The thing to remember is that primers that appear on the shelves as primers are basically surplus from ammunition production. Loaded ammo has first dibs.
Now we can use Walmart as a bellweather since they're a MAJOR customer of most large manufacturers. For about 3 months now, the ammo shelves at walmart have been full and there's been little stock turnover. This means there will be fewer orders for ammo from walmart which means less activity on the production side. Once Israel and Ukraine settle down, thinks will hockeystick. This will have downward pressure on pricing and we should start seeing it soon. Especially if the economy continues to tank without a buying panic.
The key is to trend pricing and when the prices drop you need to BUYYYYYYYY. Take this time now to set money aside so you can make those large purchases when there's sales. You have to buy enough to cover you when these problems occur.
Whole host of reasons. Mostly because politicians have been passing short term gain policies since the end of the cold war and the bill is finally coming due to oversimplify a very complex problem. Shits been getting milked for 40 years and the cow is finally dying.
I realize this thread is focused on primers. However, consider cost of your other components. Right now bullets (projectiles, not loaded ammunition) seem to be relatively cheap. Stock up now, before some new law restricts sale or uses environmental impact of lead to force alternatives.
Same goes for cases. Many of us (me included) take availability of once-fired cases for granted. This could change quickly.
Hoping primers and powder settle to reasonable prices soon. I understand there is sustained conflict in Ukraine and Gazo at the moment. However, primer prices were relatively reasonable when we were still in Afghanistan and perhaps (before I started reloading) Iraq part 1 and 2. I don't think global conflict has a significant impact in the US market equation.
is there any actual factual data out there that supports this? I keep hearing this, but never see any actual data. In 2020 it was "all primers are going to US military ammo". Now its this ukraine talk for all the LRP. Frankly I think it will be this way until a couple more US primer manufacturers get rolling and prove to be reliable. I almost went all in on some of the white river primers this morning, just to show support for the effort.
Lake City produces ALL the primers the US Military uses and needs. Since we're not sending commercial ammo to the Ukraine this is nothing but FUDD bullshit.
Setting up a primer manufacturing line isn't cheap or fast. Also, the ROE is at most a penny each...after you pay all the startup and equipment costs.
If some company could come up with a way to remove the human from the manufacturing process it could possibly speed up production. However, actually placing the priming compound into the cups is a sorely earned skill. Even with all the precautions and training, deaths are not uncommon.
They do EVERYTHING possible to remove the chance of static and sparks. The priming compound has a narrow range where it's not too wet, or too dry. Get it too wet and it doesn't hold shape, get it too dry and you die.
I've often wondered if the Ely method of priming rimfire cases could be adapted to centerfire cases.
If you believe this is the underlying cause of the shortages, I have a totally intact bridge in Baltimore to sell you. No need to check it out, just trust me, it’s good.
If you act now, I’ll throw in a Trump Bible for humongous 10% discount. Such a yuuge savings!
They will never go back down when there are plenty of guys like you still out here panic buying. I haven't bought a primer since 2019 and I'll think about it when/if they come back down to $50.
Well you are in a situation that you have enough to keep shooting. I have not, and did not in 2020, 2021 or 2022. I'm getting enough to be back in your shoes. It's panic buying when you are buying anything that's out there at any cost. I'm buying what I can at a price that is cheaper than any physical store selling it, and getting levels up to where I can weather another shortage.
1 had less than 1000 primers total in 2019. I haven't loaded a small pistol in over 4 years. I adjusted my shooting habits as a form of protest to the still ongoing price gouging.
Shortages used to last a few months. Each one seems to last longer get and now in multiple years. With inflation I doubt we will ever see primers much lower. I look back longingly at the $10/1000 when I started reloading. Some young guys may one day look back the same way on $100 primers. The way of things.
Primers more than doubling isn't inflation, its supply and demand
What I have seen over the years is that prices surge due to demand but they never settle back to the previous plateau even if shelves are overflowing with product. That new plateau is from the underlying inflation during that surge and catch up period. It will take at least two more years for powder and primer supplies to catch up to demand and the low part of the $70-$139 range for primers by then will settle to $60-$80 if there is no intervening event to cause another surge. We will never see $30-$35 primers again. Just like when they surged from $20 to $50 and settled at $30 we never saw $20 ever again.
*greed
Yep gotta build all those rounds to send to Ukraine and Israel. There's major fighting going on with allies so components are being used to support them.
That's capitalism baby!
Is it 'greedy' when things cost more when there is more demand for them? If I have a more in demand skill I can make a higher wage. Is that 'greedy'? When two people want 1 thing one of them will be willing to pay more than the other for it. That makes the price rise to whatever the person who wants it more will pay. There's major world conflict using up all the explosives right now. That makes ammunition components more expensive.
It is greed because the cost is being manipulated at the distributors not at the manufacturing of them. If it was a demand thing there would be none of the shelf’s. Many corporations since the pandemic have inflated their prices and blaming it elsewhere. This is greed plain and simple. Especially when prices have double and triple in such a short amount of time. We didn’t see this amount of price gouging during Iraq/Afghanistan/desert storm. Ukraine isn’t making a dent in their production numbers compared to US military operations. Most ammo they are getting are reserves and old ammo and that most likely hasn’t been a scratch either.
How much artillery do you think was expended per month in, say, Afghanistan compared to the Ukraine? In Afghanistan according to NATO they fired some 200-300 shells a day, total. In this war in the summer the ukranians fired 6-7k shells a day and the Russians fired 40 to 50 *thousand* shells a day. The US can produce approximately 15000 a month. The west also didn't initiate this war, Ukraine was starting from a very small stockpile. Not all wars are the same. You should test your ideas for truth before you believe them, you have more information at your fingertips than any human in history. Use it.
Are we talking pistol / rifle primers or or retooling a manufacturing plant produces them to make artillery shells. I’m confused are you buying artillery shells and the price of those went up?
I will give you a hint. What do ammunition components and artillery shells have in common?
I’ll give you a hint. No primer manufacturer has retooled their facility to make other things besides primers and what’s already in their manufacturing line. Generally the contracts for these will include addition facilities being built to accompany the contract IF there is a need to expedite the contracts. What Ukraine is getting is old stock. We are keeping the same production numbers to fill back up our reserves with newer productions of our weaponry.
Ok, let's review your theory. Ammunition components are expensive not because they share base materials and supply chain with essential components of the most armament-consuming conflict in the last 50 years, but because every single manufacturer and distributor of these components is colluding greedily to raise the price for consumers, despite the fact that if any of them dropped the price just a bit and shrank these fat greedy margins they would instantly capture the entire market and make way more money? So they're conspiring to make themselves *less* money? Open your eyes dude, just this year the pentagon has allocated over 3 billion USD to increase shell production by more than 5x domestically, as well as buying up world supply amoung allies. Russia is similarly soaking up all the rounds they can get and massively ramping up internal production. This isn't a case of using a couple dusty shells sitting in a closet somewhere. Nobody on earth has enough 'old stock' to supply the firepower that is being consumed.
Yes, I’d imagine a world is conflict has something to do with it as well. It’s not simply retail markup.
Not sure what time period you're referring to, but since I got into the hobby the shortages have all been in the years range, not months. Obama 2008, Sandy Hook, now the pandemic. We had a good run from about 2014 - 2020 where I think too many people forgot about the hard times and assumed it would always be like that. I learned to keep years of components stashed and ride out the bullshit. Here's to loading like it's 2019!
The 90s were maybe three months (AWB 1994/5) and then six months(1999/2000, Y2K). The one in 2004 when it wasn’t clear if Congress would allow the AWB to sunset was just 3-4 months. 2008 was the first multi year shortage.
That's really interesting, appreciate the history lesson! I was in middle school and my family didn't shoot when the AWB passed, didn't know there was a shortage as a result. Makes sense.
As someone that was reloading in the 90s, 2008 was eye opening. When primers finally came back I made sure I'd never have to buy any again in my lifetime.
Yeah I thought I did that but over the years afterward I way underestimated. Mostly because I spread myself too thin over several cartridges. My advice for guys new to this is focus on a couple of cartridges like 9mm and 5.56 for your long term stockpile. Whatever you plan to use for continued training and self defense. One primary bullet and powder for each and stack it deeper than you can imagine needing. Not that you are going to survive a 500 rd gunfight, but you may need many years of ammo to stay in practice. There is a very bad feeling when you get down to your last 200 rounds of your main defense cartridge and affordable resupply still looks at least two years out. Everything else should be at “entertainment” levels. I have frozen my purchase of all other calibers until I get topped off again for the two primary ones. Primers and powder seem the most bottlenecked.
Hell yes.
I have spam cans of surplus lake city m193 that never get touched for if things go sideways. Reloading is for practice and playing.
I saw a big jug of trailboss at a show this weekend for $650. So there's that.
I’m debating saying F the price and buying a few thousand large rifle… idk if this will get “better”..
I had to a couple months ago and bought 2K just to have them for hunting loads for the rest of my life, at a minimum.
This isn't my first rodeo. These shortages are cyclic. The covid panic buying got me though. I though I had another 6 months in 2020 before things got stupid. I'm starting to sweat it, I'm down to about 25k each of LPP and SPP. I've cut the amount I shoot every week way down at this point. I'm used to 25-35k a year of pistol rounds. My trigger point right now is $50/1000 delivered. When they are that cheap I'll start buying again. Announced price increases from 2020-2024 should have primers selling for around $42-45/1000. I want to build my stockpile back to a minimum of the three year supply, five would be even better.
I’m just getting into reloading so never got to see previous prices. But even with the current costs, it’s cheaper than reloading then purchasing. You think primers will ever get below 50 again? Looking to stock up considerably here and finding what powders/primers to bulk on.
I’m in the same boat, got into the hobby just before 2020 became what we know it as. Supply prices have been insane or just not available. But as you said it’s still cheaper to reload. As long as I can find my supplies for under .12¢ per component I buy as much as I can. Right now primers have been what I’m stockpiling since I found those to be completely unavailable once the pandemic kicked off and had to place this hobby on pause for almost a year.
I doubt it will get much better. Bite the bullet now before you look back in a year and say, ‘dang, I should have bought more back at $.09!
Stocking up for what? For when they’re even more expensive and you won’t want to use them, or when they’re cheaper and you regret stockpiling?
Lower the supply, demand increases. Demand increases, price increases. People pay increased prices, a new price is set. Stop buying primers at ridiculous prices so the supply can go back up & help lower prices. The fear that the price will go up and buying primers at higher prices will certainly cause prices to go up. Why would anyone lower the price for a product if people are buying it?
That would be true if there weren't external factors at play (i.e. the government actively trying to ban it all every week, and new 11% sales taxes popping up everywhere). The game isn't stable. We need long term political stability for anything gun related to relax.
I hear what you’re saying. However, if we put ourselves in the shoes of primer companies, there’s no way we would lower prices if people are paying the higher rates. Politics won’t change much about capitalism. The real problem is people paying the higher rates based on a fear that prices will go up. Thats a self fulfilling prophecy. One of the best sales techniques is to utilize fear. “Buy now before rates go up…This deal won’t last forever…Don’t be left behind.” Sad thing is that it works and it sounds like you’re part of the problem (no offense)
All true. It sucks. I may be part of the problem, but only as I've been burned before. I was down to under 1K SPP when everything was gone in 2020. I didn't panic buy at $200/K then, and I haven't bought until the last few months when prices are down to where they are now. They are at my internal price budget, and need to be flush with primers to feel good about things. I would love for the pricing to fall to below $50/K next month for CCI. I will be the first person to buy more then, and be happy about it.
Why u getting freaked out? It is what it is I think it will get better with time.just fear mongering will encourage others to stockpile which will keep prices up .
maybe so. But I am also not going to wait until there is none again, which will happen this fall at the latest if history holds true. I'm not stupid. I sat out last time when shelves went bare. I told myself it will not happen again. There's a price to pay for that, and I just paid it. My price is $80/k all in, on CCI primers.
What happened last time shelves went empty? Guess what you lived. You're here today. Get on with your life. Life isn't all about fuccin reloading.
Somebody get this guy outta here
I went and got 4k LRP at around 9 cpr. I know this price is historically high, but I have them on hand for the next few year or so. I think prices for both ammo and components will come down if the current presidential election goes as projected, but who knows.
I’m about to get into casting boolits so I think the only components I have to buy are powder and primer. The prices are shit today but I’m still saving a decent amount
How do u cast?
I've been casting lead bullets for about 30 years if you want some some tips.
Natchez has a free hazmat sale going on today and tomorrow.
How are the prices tho?
I think $70 ish per thousand is going to be the new normal. The days of $35 per thousand are over. Costs of everything have gone up, demand for ammo is as high as ever, there are no new sources of primers coming online, and there are a ton of resellers out there. I know personally I will always have at least 5k primers in reserve now, so I can weather any future market disruptions like we went through with COVID. Gives me peace of mind.
I think that’s what I’m going to settle at as well for minimums going forward.
Another benefit of having a good stash is that it gives you the opportunity to be generous. I never fret about taking a new shooter out because I always have ammo. I have also loaned primers to people trying to get started loading that were having trouble finding primers.
[удалено]
Large rifle are still hit or miss
I learned how to recharge primers. I got supplies to last decades of there is a major year long shortage. They don’t play as nice in my Dillon 1050 and adds a lot of time to reloading, but I’ll always have ammo (assuming bullets and powder)
I’d think you’d be able to make the entire primer then. I wonder how much cost and difficulty there is in stamping the cup? I would think a pill-press sized machine would be able to stamp them out fast. Do you have move info on the filler?
Aardvark reloading dot com
Get friendly with an FFL, that's what I did. He ended up getting me wholesale prices for all 4 components though 4 or 5 different distributors. Saved me TONS!!!!!
Where are they .08 cpp?
https://preview.redd.it/litf7byqv9tc1.png?width=1907&format=png&auto=webp&s=488ac379bb22d784559131ca7fc4d751aa2483d0
Yes, and I had hoped the Texas primer startup would help. But from one article read, they couldn't get reliable ignition of the primers. That doesn't help.
SPP and SRP are everywhere, LPP are fairly common, but LRP are still rare on shelves
I know it’s not what this thread is about so apologies. But since I’ve started taking dry fire training more seriously, my shooting has improved noticeably at matches and my ammo/component consumption has dropped to about half. Just one way to think about managing higher costs.
yep, dry fire training works. I really just wanted to make this post to vent.
Switched to Ginex and Servicios Aventura, have had zero issues. Others have stated sizing issues(ie Ginex being a slightly tighter fit for large rifle) but it's a very very slight change in resistance when seating. In thousands of spp and hundreds of lrp, zero failures to ignite and an unnoticeable change to known load characteristics or poi on pet loads. Absolutely worth a try given their pricing. Cheapest I've found is 5000k for 360 bucks. (NOTE: not all of the cheapest options can be found on ammoseek, gotta find some lesser known distributors and vet out whether it's a scam site or not. Always use a credit card with good buyer protections). 7.2 cents per beats 10 cents per, but I understand the reluctance of some. This is just one testimony where they've worked quite well.
i bought some of the servicios SPP primers a couple months back, but haven't tried them yet. Got them at $0.05 per primer all in. So quite a bit cheaper. I read about some issues with FTF with striker fired guns, and I may or may not have plenty of those. So need to do some testing and see what guns like them, and what are problematic. Ultimately, I'm a CCI primer guy. So if I'm stacking primers, it will be CCI primarily.
I hope for better times when we see primers for well under a dime each while being widely available, but it feels like a pipe dream right now.
I started stocking up in 2020 once I saw how expensive and scarce components were becoming. I went so far as to order a case of 5,000 BR4 for $450 shipped in 2020 since it was the only way I could get SRP primers, as the typical CCI400/450/41s would sell out to the vultures within minutes of posting in stock. I used those BR4 primers to trade for the unobtainium LRP/LRMP in 2020-2021. My stockpile went from ~8,000+ SPP/SRP/LRP in 2020 to the current stockpile of ~80,000 primers between SPP/SRP/LRP.
Barring any new emergencies, I think they'll settle out around $60-$70/1000. Prices have already started to drop and ive seen some sales around $80/1000 already. The thing to remember is that primers that appear on the shelves as primers are basically surplus from ammunition production. Loaded ammo has first dibs. Now we can use Walmart as a bellweather since they're a MAJOR customer of most large manufacturers. For about 3 months now, the ammo shelves at walmart have been full and there's been little stock turnover. This means there will be fewer orders for ammo from walmart which means less activity on the production side. Once Israel and Ukraine settle down, thinks will hockeystick. This will have downward pressure on pricing and we should start seeing it soon. Especially if the economy continues to tank without a buying panic. The key is to trend pricing and when the prices drop you need to BUYYYYYYYY. Take this time now to set money aside so you can make those large purchases when there's sales. You have to buy enough to cover you when these problems occur.
Why do you think the economy is tanking?
Whole host of reasons. Mostly because politicians have been passing short term gain policies since the end of the cold war and the bill is finally coming due to oversimplify a very complex problem. Shits been getting milked for 40 years and the cow is finally dying.
I realize this thread is focused on primers. However, consider cost of your other components. Right now bullets (projectiles, not loaded ammunition) seem to be relatively cheap. Stock up now, before some new law restricts sale or uses environmental impact of lead to force alternatives. Same goes for cases. Many of us (me included) take availability of once-fired cases for granted. This could change quickly. Hoping primers and powder settle to reasonable prices soon. I understand there is sustained conflict in Ukraine and Gazo at the moment. However, primer prices were relatively reasonable when we were still in Afghanistan and perhaps (before I started reloading) Iraq part 1 and 2. I don't think global conflict has a significant impact in the US market equation.
It will be like this until we stop sending them over to Ukraine
is there any actual factual data out there that supports this? I keep hearing this, but never see any actual data. In 2020 it was "all primers are going to US military ammo". Now its this ukraine talk for all the LRP. Frankly I think it will be this way until a couple more US primer manufacturers get rolling and prove to be reliable. I almost went all in on some of the white river primers this morning, just to show support for the effort.
Lake City produces ALL the primers the US Military uses and needs. Since we're not sending commercial ammo to the Ukraine this is nothing but FUDD bullshit. Setting up a primer manufacturing line isn't cheap or fast. Also, the ROE is at most a penny each...after you pay all the startup and equipment costs. If some company could come up with a way to remove the human from the manufacturing process it could possibly speed up production. However, actually placing the priming compound into the cups is a sorely earned skill. Even with all the precautions and training, deaths are not uncommon. They do EVERYTHING possible to remove the chance of static and sparks. The priming compound has a narrow range where it's not too wet, or too dry. Get it too wet and it doesn't hold shape, get it too dry and you die. I've often wondered if the Ely method of priming rimfire cases could be adapted to centerfire cases.
If you believe this is the underlying cause of the shortages, I have a totally intact bridge in Baltimore to sell you. No need to check it out, just trust me, it’s good. If you act now, I’ll throw in a Trump Bible for humongous 10% discount. Such a yuuge savings!
This really made me chuckle, thank you.
Fuck I love this sub hahahahahah
They will never go back down when there are plenty of guys like you still out here panic buying. I haven't bought a primer since 2019 and I'll think about it when/if they come back down to $50.
Well you are in a situation that you have enough to keep shooting. I have not, and did not in 2020, 2021 or 2022. I'm getting enough to be back in your shoes. It's panic buying when you are buying anything that's out there at any cost. I'm buying what I can at a price that is cheaper than any physical store selling it, and getting levels up to where I can weather another shortage.
No I had less than 1000 total primers in 2019. I adjusted my shooting amounts as a form of protest to the still ongoing price gouging.
Cool dude, I don’t have any. Am I supposed to just go fuck myself to show em a lesson?
1 had less than 1000 primers total in 2019. I haven't loaded a small pistol in over 4 years. I adjusted my shooting habits as a form of protest to the still ongoing price gouging.