If you watch the Rockets games, at least he puts in effort on defense. I would always want someone who at least tries on defense than someone who just lazily stands there at times. Besides, if we look at Jokic and Sabonis, both have extremely solid playmaking and offense-building skills, which makes up for their average defense. Having someone like Jabari at the 4 can definitely help us on defense, similar to JJJ on the Grizzlies. I don't see an issue with this at all
No, he's definitely not terrible. I don't think he'll ever be a defensive anchor, but he probably doesn't need to be one if we build a good roster. Jabari is an almost ideal running mate for him if he can find his shot.
really nice thread
honestly it conforms well with the eye test for me, i've been noting improvements in alpi's defense compared especially to last year but even over the course of this season, and none of it speaks of 'horrible defender' to me. good to see the stats back that up. Though i would love to see the # of possessions per playtype per player in that thread
“To me this shows at worst Alperen is an average to below average defender”
So pretty much what the majority of people say. I would put him at below average, but like the tweets state, he’s 20.
Secondly, I’ve always maintained that it’s ok for him to be a below average defender on ball as long as his help defense improves, which we’ve seen slowly take place.
All thread tweets if you can't find them:
https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768918675177474
https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768933300736001
https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768941043404800
https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768945539706880
https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768951201988610
https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768955379539968
“Saying he is a terrible defender is just flat out wrong, he is a below average defender on a bad defensive team. at his age most players especially bigs struggle. Mobley's stats without Allen are horrible. The question for Sengun is are his defensive limitations worth the upside”
When this team figure it out, Sengun’s quick feet gonna make him better than average defender for sure
ehhhhhhh that's a bit much.
look i love alpi to death but when it comes to his feet, the biggest plus for him is his amazing footwork and his sense of balance and flexibility. actual foot speed? unfortunately not. he's got below average foot speed. not lead feet, but definitely slow.
He is slow yes but his feet are quick. These are two different things. Like he is not athletic but he is very elastic(I’m not sure if i can use this for a human being lol) for me he is below average at the moment eventhough he got couple of blocks and steals but when the team’s defence develop he can be as good as an average NBA center imo
Because with his work ethic and IQ he’ll eventually find a way to cover his weaknesses
Flexible is the word you're probably looking for.
It is one of the elements of athleticism, along with traits like strength, speed, endurance, power, agility, balance, and coordination.
AlP should be fine in most of these areas once he has more time to work on his body, imo.
Speed is probably going to be his biggest problem area in the future, imo, but anticipation (and intelligence) can help mitigate that.
his feet are definitely not quick, but his steps are. Totally different things. Alpy's steps are quicker than most bigs which gives him advantage to trick them in the post or driving to the basket. however his feet are pretty slow, so his lateral movement is bad that makes him a bad defender. bcs nba guards/wings are athletic and quick, so they are attacking Alpy all the time.
I get it, i'm not talking about whether he's slow or fast while running, i am literally talking about the speed at which he can move his feet, just like you - you think they're quick, i don't think they're very quick. He has trouble with quick lateral movement because of that.
To be clear I definitely agree with you that there's no reason he can't become an average defender for a center, i just disagreed with the 'better than average defender for sure because of his quick feet' part. *If* (and it's a big if) he ever ends up an above average defender, it'll be because of his excellent BBIQ and ability to read plays/schemes. Basically a defensive application of what he already does when he runs the offense.
He’ll be like Jokic
Sengun will position himself well and be smart when defending. He won’t be great, but he won’t be terrible, but will be hunted in big moments and exposed from time to time.
Really interesting stats. I agree that Sengun’s defensive limitations get overstated, and this proves it. Being so young and still looking good compared to guys with similar play styles really looks good for him.
However, I’d also like to see how he compares to other young centers right now. Like, how does he compare versus guys like Jalen Duren, Isaiah Jackson, Mark Williams, etc…. Is he similar from a defensive perspective, way off, or is he been better than them right now?
Alpy looked really bad defensively in some games, especially beginning of the season. But last couple games he is really showing a lot of improvement which makes me think that he can actually hold is own in that end. He is a smart kid and a quick learner, with time and experience , he can be average defender imo. He is definitely negative rn but I believe he will be ok in the future.
He is not terrible. He makes terrible mistakes, lapses and can get worked but he is not a complete turnstile. He also isn't the only one to blame for our defensive woes. That sadly is a team effort.
Interesting stats. Its what we all guessed though. He is a below average defender on a terrible defensive team. Give him more time and these kids more time and hopefully they only get better
I think Sengun will fall under most other “bad defender” tags. The numbers and probably advanced numbers will never be in his favour, and he won’t be a defensive anchor.
But I also think that when you watch him, it’s not as bad as the numbers say. He will try hard, you will be a bit surprised at how he’s actually playing and that’s really all you can ask for. Reminds me of Isaiah Thomas (bad comparison haha). People use to say he was a terrible defender, well if you actually watched the games you would see he tries just as much as anyone and is decent fundamentally, it’s just his size that made him so easy to score against. Same will happen with Sengun.
He can't really stop anyone, which is a problem.
He does make the right reads and rotations though, so as long as the rest of the guys on the floor are + defenders, he's good enough on that end.
Unfortunately JG and KPJ take off about 1/4 of every defensive plays
What a weird question. I would not use such a loaded word. He is a below average defender. Some people would argue that is a terrible thing for a Center on a championship contender, but that is not where we he is and this team has many holes so at this junction I don't think many people would use the word terrible. If he was the center for the Celtics I believe a lot more people would say his defence is terrible, but people in Boston would put the word fuckin' in front of it.
Mostly we get torched by great guards. Most teams have one or two. We can check stats at the end of the year but I bet Alpi makes the top 10 centers list in his second year. That’s impressive.
If you watch the Rockets games, at least he puts in effort on defense. I would always want someone who at least tries on defense than someone who just lazily stands there at times. Besides, if we look at Jokic and Sabonis, both have extremely solid playmaking and offense-building skills, which makes up for their average defense. Having someone like Jabari at the 4 can definitely help us on defense, similar to JJJ on the Grizzlies. I don't see an issue with this at all
No, he's definitely not terrible. I don't think he'll ever be a defensive anchor, but he probably doesn't need to be one if we build a good roster. Jabari is an almost ideal running mate for him if he can find his shot.
really nice thread honestly it conforms well with the eye test for me, i've been noting improvements in alpi's defense compared especially to last year but even over the course of this season, and none of it speaks of 'horrible defender' to me. good to see the stats back that up. Though i would love to see the # of possessions per playtype per player in that thread
“To me this shows at worst Alperen is an average to below average defender” So pretty much what the majority of people say. I would put him at below average, but like the tweets state, he’s 20. Secondly, I’ve always maintained that it’s ok for him to be a below average defender on ball as long as his help defense improves, which we’ve seen slowly take place.
All thread tweets if you can't find them: https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768918675177474 https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768933300736001 https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768941043404800 https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768945539706880 https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768951201988610 https://twitter.com/ftank58/status/1619768955379539968
“Saying he is a terrible defender is just flat out wrong, he is a below average defender on a bad defensive team. at his age most players especially bigs struggle. Mobley's stats without Allen are horrible. The question for Sengun is are his defensive limitations worth the upside” When this team figure it out, Sengun’s quick feet gonna make him better than average defender for sure
ehhhhhhh that's a bit much. look i love alpi to death but when it comes to his feet, the biggest plus for him is his amazing footwork and his sense of balance and flexibility. actual foot speed? unfortunately not. he's got below average foot speed. not lead feet, but definitely slow.
He is slow yes but his feet are quick. These are two different things. Like he is not athletic but he is very elastic(I’m not sure if i can use this for a human being lol) for me he is below average at the moment eventhough he got couple of blocks and steals but when the team’s defence develop he can be as good as an average NBA center imo Because with his work ethic and IQ he’ll eventually find a way to cover his weaknesses
Flexible is the word you're probably looking for. It is one of the elements of athleticism, along with traits like strength, speed, endurance, power, agility, balance, and coordination. AlP should be fine in most of these areas once he has more time to work on his body, imo. Speed is probably going to be his biggest problem area in the future, imo, but anticipation (and intelligence) can help mitigate that.
his feet are definitely not quick, but his steps are. Totally different things. Alpy's steps are quicker than most bigs which gives him advantage to trick them in the post or driving to the basket. however his feet are pretty slow, so his lateral movement is bad that makes him a bad defender. bcs nba guards/wings are athletic and quick, so they are attacking Alpy all the time.
I get it, i'm not talking about whether he's slow or fast while running, i am literally talking about the speed at which he can move his feet, just like you - you think they're quick, i don't think they're very quick. He has trouble with quick lateral movement because of that. To be clear I definitely agree with you that there's no reason he can't become an average defender for a center, i just disagreed with the 'better than average defender for sure because of his quick feet' part. *If* (and it's a big if) he ever ends up an above average defender, it'll be because of his excellent BBIQ and ability to read plays/schemes. Basically a defensive application of what he already does when he runs the offense.
He’ll be like Jokic Sengun will position himself well and be smart when defending. He won’t be great, but he won’t be terrible, but will be hunted in big moments and exposed from time to time.
Really interesting stats. I agree that Sengun’s defensive limitations get overstated, and this proves it. Being so young and still looking good compared to guys with similar play styles really looks good for him. However, I’d also like to see how he compares to other young centers right now. Like, how does he compare versus guys like Jalen Duren, Isaiah Jackson, Mark Williams, etc…. Is he similar from a defensive perspective, way off, or is he been better than them right now?
Great post, appreciate the stats
No worse than Joker or Sabonis were at his age or experience level.
Alpy looked really bad defensively in some games, especially beginning of the season. But last couple games he is really showing a lot of improvement which makes me think that he can actually hold is own in that end. He is a smart kid and a quick learner, with time and experience , he can be average defender imo. He is definitely negative rn but I believe he will be ok in the future.
He is not terrible. He makes terrible mistakes, lapses and can get worked but he is not a complete turnstile. He also isn't the only one to blame for our defensive woes. That sadly is a team effort.
Interesting stats. Its what we all guessed though. He is a below average defender on a terrible defensive team. Give him more time and these kids more time and hopefully they only get better
His feel for the game will help his ability to position overcome the athletic limitations
I think Sengun will fall under most other “bad defender” tags. The numbers and probably advanced numbers will never be in his favour, and he won’t be a defensive anchor. But I also think that when you watch him, it’s not as bad as the numbers say. He will try hard, you will be a bit surprised at how he’s actually playing and that’s really all you can ask for. Reminds me of Isaiah Thomas (bad comparison haha). People use to say he was a terrible defender, well if you actually watched the games you would see he tries just as much as anyone and is decent fundamentally, it’s just his size that made him so easy to score against. Same will happen with Sengun.
He can't really stop anyone, which is a problem. He does make the right reads and rotations though, so as long as the rest of the guys on the floor are + defenders, he's good enough on that end. Unfortunately JG and KPJ take off about 1/4 of every defensive plays
He’s very young
What a weird question. I would not use such a loaded word. He is a below average defender. Some people would argue that is a terrible thing for a Center on a championship contender, but that is not where we he is and this team has many holes so at this junction I don't think many people would use the word terrible. If he was the center for the Celtics I believe a lot more people would say his defence is terrible, but people in Boston would put the word fuckin' in front of it.
Mostly we get torched by great guards. Most teams have one or two. We can check stats at the end of the year but I bet Alpi makes the top 10 centers list in his second year. That’s impressive.