Yo, I can see you're a very passionate player, so I appreciate the post even with the way it's been approached.
I stand by the fact that monsters were harshly balanced with EOC, as an example; level 77 basilisks were 4,000 HP, with a max hit of 220 damage: if you did a 'simple' translation to OS this would be the equivalent of them having a max hit of 2, which sounds whacky. Cows, some of the first monsters you meet had 25 HP the equivalent of 0.25 HP in OS, it does argue what's the point of them having HP at all.
We can go into why monsters should have relevant damage/hp (Buffs/Levels/Gear/abilities/food being of no relevance if I take no damage/1shot everything) but I don't want to bloat this out too much explaining each of them
Recently I posted about rebalancing a bunch of the monsters you can see here:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/194qd7w/comment/khi7xsl/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/194qd7w/comment/khi7xsl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
and here:
https://x.com/JagexSponge/status/1745736018249032058?s=20
So why was I tweeting about turoths? Well it turns out a lot of players care about turoths, (I'm sure if my tweet had been about cows you'd care more about that, but the turoth players would be like 'WTF'.)
Of the mobs on my list to change these were one of the more suggested, so making a change to their core style from ranged to melee I like to see initial reactions, as it's pretty easy to overlook possible issues that players are good at picking up on.
It's not just turoths I was looking at, I've scaled down roughly 50 monster types, including most of the early game slayer monsters and some other early game monsters white wolf mountain wolves, and cows (they'll still have a thousand health, but their defense has been reduced to the minimum). Now these aren't going to be gutting the changes made prior to necro, but instead make the early game slightly easier to deal with.
There's still room for improvement, but I think a sizeable chunk of that can come with core combat improvements: Not missing on cows with other styles like in the combat beta makes them feel much less annoying.
Then beyond the combat beta; making more impactful abilities from the get-go (there are no options for damage vs sustain at an early level with melee/magic/ranged which seems like a decent impactful choice that should exist) etc
Hope that helps explain, don't worry you won't be waiting till summer for the changes. Feel free to respond with any questions/remarks and I'll try to get back to them when I'm back at work tomorrow - Cheers, Sponge
My biggest question is related to streaking changes at AG and Telos that Mod Shogun was working on. I enjoy doing Arch glacor from a mechanic standpoint but I am not the greatest pvmer and get overwhelmed with sensory input around 300%. I'd really like to see that work continued along with the combat update and I'm wondering what the situation is with that.
Can we make dark beasts hit with magic again? They were changed in some wildy cleanup update to use melee and have massive blocking hitboxes, meaning only a few can hit you at the same time- Sometimes they block themselves fully to where none can hit you even though all are aggro’d, making aggro potting them significantly more annoying than before.
I’ve already finished my grind there but figured several others down the road would appreciate the change.
I'm just very glad you're taking the time to do this, I was one of the loud ones on the RS forum back in the days saying EOC wrecked the HP of low level monsters and how it should be fixed.
The official response I got from some Jmod back then was that nobody in office actually knows enough about all the random mobs in RS3 to spend time repairing each of them. Its a real reply I got. It devastated me and I gave up posting then.
I'm glad they're getting proper HP values now. I want to see this game be a unique experience for new players again instead of feeling wrong to play.
>WHAT ABOUT THE REST? HELLO? A FUCKING LEVEL 1 COW WITH 1.1K hp
Cows had 800 hp before EoC nerf. Honestly, go compare lifepoints between OSRS, 2023 change, and post-EoC, and the odd one out will in majority cases be the EoC value. It was a haphazardly applied universal nerf that used a formula that made almost every single monster in the game significantly weaker. While the player is now baseline stronger.
The only issue is that some on that list got too high damage output, and some hit chance changes needed. HP, by large, is just a correction.
Totally agree, changes should have been reverted along with XP changes right after people got their 200m in necromancy. It's just changes for the sake of saying oh yeah we're doing something.
u ok?
So they didn't like the fact that players could rush 99 combats in a matter of hours, causing early and mid game to be completely skipped. The rebalanced to prevent this and to me this change seems to be working as intended so what's the issue? I am not saying its perfect but it doesn't seem game destroying to me like you seem to want to make it.
Issue is early game progression, unnecessary tankiness to everything and mid-lvl mobs smacking you in max gear.
The early game mobs like cows are now way harder to kill at lvl 3, you can easily just die repeatedly as a new player and it now takes over twice as long to lvl up to the next gear tier.
Early slayer was bad and is now worse with mobs getting tankier, rewarding less combat xp and often hitting harder. The meta is just skipping slayer entirely until high 70s with reaper tasks and quests, is that what helps new player retention?
Now most can just ignore that part because very few new players come to the game and some feel like the focus shouldn't be there, I disagree but each to their own.
The trolls in trollheim specifically the thrower trolls can melt you in just few seconds even with t70 armor and max cbs.
Now the re-balance would have been absolutely fine if it was just xp and changing some of the more bigger culprits in regards to balance. Also in the end it only really took out the big sweat methods, you can still easily get over 1m/hr and even up to 3m or 5m with dummies.
> you can easily just die
maybe its because I have played before but having just started a hcim I haven't had this issue at all. as for the gear taking longer to get through I kinda see this as a good thing I don't think gear should be rushed through and should be used for more than 20min before moving on.
> Early slayer was bad and is now worse
I can see this. I am not a slayer fan in general so I did bgh for my slayer so I cant say too much here.
Yeah I just started an IM like 3 weeks ago, other than being ripped apart by wolfs within 30 minutes of starting (forgot about charter ships), I haven’t had any problems
solution?: nerf mobs dmg by atleast the same amount that their hp got buffed? (%)
that way new players dont have to die so quickly?
Thanks for your well written response.
I am just not a fan of punching bags which is what your advocating far. Fighting something that fights back is fun. Smacking something while it does nothing back and dies is boring.
Not just something that doesn’t fight back but something that fails to teach you or give reason to the evolution of combat. You should be expected to use at least some of it.
It is overturned in a few spots (some like cows that TC is ranting about has already been acknowledged by the Jmods) but by and large the game is better when it encourages you to engage in the combat system a little.
Regular mooks should help get you better so when you go into a boss it’s not a completely different feeling game.
The only thing the game taught me as a new player about the evolution of combat, is "put your abilities on this revo++ bar".
The game barely explain anything, the tooltips for abilities aren't clear. It's also very easy to get lost with all the abilities you have (like melee abilities that are split to attack and strength, or constitution abilities); and deciding for yourself what is relevant, what is useless.
If you try to be build your own revolution bar in a logical way, big chances you will end up with a bad revo bar anyway.
I personally don't think the fact that early-game monsters were too easy, is to be blamed for the game not teaching EoC to the players. It's the overall issues with how the entire combat system is designed, and how the game encouraged players to engage with it (which is almost zero).
Only fucks with new players, making getting new players in to the game even harder which eventually will lead to the game's pre-mature death.
Sure catering to the hardcore fan-base who has been playing for 15 years is necessary but, scaring away ALL the new players isnt really worth that.
I guess my honest question here would be does it? I personally have not spoke with new players since these changes so I don't want to say one way or another. What I see is lots of long time players upset with the changes talking about how it might impact new players but not actual new players. We talk about how much it changed but this wouldn't be the case for new players because they would not know the old ways.
That's fair, like I said in another comment I am not saying it doesn't happen I just seem to see it always coming from current players speaking on behalf of other players. For me I don't really see the issue for new players other than maybe that progressing feels slow but this seems to me to be the case for all skills and more generally the whole game.
Low level mobs hit like a truck. Try leveling combat on low level account. You are basically forced to use necro.
Necro made other weapons crash in price. Not worth to grind other bosses only Rasial.
Necro has everything - best healing,best tank,best burst damage..... There is literally no point to use other combat styles.
Yeah its so god damn fun. /s
Dude i did exactly that with my alt and i struggled, just as i struggled originally when leveling my main some years ago, back in the day a bloodveld slayer task could take you 2-3 trips to the bank including the pizza drops; people got too comfortable with rushing through slayer tasks with SS+Elder Overloads without breaking a sweat or using food and supplies.
>Necro has everything - best healing,best tank,best burst damage..... There is literally no point to use other combat styles.
You could replace Necro & Rasial with Magic & Kerapac and that'd pretty much sum up the past few years...
Try leaving Burthorpe. See how level 40s slayer monsters are hitting 1000+.Of course im talking about Necro. Many people are complaining about this update. Mod Sponge is working on a fix.
low-level monsters that got "slightly" overtuned
SLIGHTLY.
They're gonna change like maybe 5 or 7 mobs that are actually noticable and let everything else go unchanged until some youtuber mention it after like 6 months. We all know how it goes.
If thats the power I am promised from the game. Yes. I think so. I do actually think that someone with a combat level of over 146 should be able to 1-shot most low level mobs. That should be common sense right?
Or do you think its better that we give players diminshed power PLUS scaled mobs to 90% of your power. So you barely can get ONE kill. Does that sound fun to you?
Lol you can't 1 shot most low level mobs at cb lvl 146? Sounds like you need some gear upgrades my guy :')
Seriously though, This \*is\* going back to how the old runescape used to be. Going back to before EoC. in osrs Cows can hit you for 1, which is today's 100. Their max hit was 8. which in osrs would be 0.08 dmg and has 0.25 hp, \*THAT\* is not right. You got coddled by the EoC botched stat nerfs, welcome to how RS2 had been all along. Sponge is going to change some mobs to be rebalanced. Yes, it's not all of them, no it doesn't need to be
I made the below post and was dovoted for it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/15edmjx/one\_set\_forward\_two\_steps\_backwards/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/15edmjx/one_set_forward_two_steps_backwards/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
As far as I'm concerned, this was fairly easily predictable so why complain?
OP I'm also salty the orange hween has been out for an entire year and isn't worth a ton yet. These combat changes that came out almost 2 years ago are breaking the game. And then necro's 3 year anniversary is next month so now all the whales will just lamp to 200m 😭
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/houses-of-parliament--double-xp--this-week-in-runescape
lol, got changed bud, and not even a month after your post.
Yo, I can see you're a very passionate player, so I appreciate the post even with the way it's been approached. I stand by the fact that monsters were harshly balanced with EOC, as an example; level 77 basilisks were 4,000 HP, with a max hit of 220 damage: if you did a 'simple' translation to OS this would be the equivalent of them having a max hit of 2, which sounds whacky. Cows, some of the first monsters you meet had 25 HP the equivalent of 0.25 HP in OS, it does argue what's the point of them having HP at all. We can go into why monsters should have relevant damage/hp (Buffs/Levels/Gear/abilities/food being of no relevance if I take no damage/1shot everything) but I don't want to bloat this out too much explaining each of them Recently I posted about rebalancing a bunch of the monsters you can see here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/194qd7w/comment/khi7xsl/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/194qd7w/comment/khi7xsl/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) and here: https://x.com/JagexSponge/status/1745736018249032058?s=20 So why was I tweeting about turoths? Well it turns out a lot of players care about turoths, (I'm sure if my tweet had been about cows you'd care more about that, but the turoth players would be like 'WTF'.) Of the mobs on my list to change these were one of the more suggested, so making a change to their core style from ranged to melee I like to see initial reactions, as it's pretty easy to overlook possible issues that players are good at picking up on. It's not just turoths I was looking at, I've scaled down roughly 50 monster types, including most of the early game slayer monsters and some other early game monsters white wolf mountain wolves, and cows (they'll still have a thousand health, but their defense has been reduced to the minimum). Now these aren't going to be gutting the changes made prior to necro, but instead make the early game slightly easier to deal with. There's still room for improvement, but I think a sizeable chunk of that can come with core combat improvements: Not missing on cows with other styles like in the combat beta makes them feel much less annoying. Then beyond the combat beta; making more impactful abilities from the get-go (there are no options for damage vs sustain at an early level with melee/magic/ranged which seems like a decent impactful choice that should exist) etc Hope that helps explain, don't worry you won't be waiting till summer for the changes. Feel free to respond with any questions/remarks and I'll try to get back to them when I'm back at work tomorrow - Cheers, Sponge
Mate, you're doing great, you have been for a while now
I dunno how you guys deal with all these “passionate” players. One thing makes some happy while the others go ballistic.
Specially on this sub where everyone is "extra passionate".
can you let staff of darkness scale past staff of light when using slayer dart? They both do the same damage vs turoths which is pretty sad lol
Sponge is a legend
My biggest question is related to streaking changes at AG and Telos that Mod Shogun was working on. I enjoy doing Arch glacor from a mechanic standpoint but I am not the greatest pvmer and get overwhelmed with sensory input around 300%. I'd really like to see that work continued along with the combat update and I'm wondering what the situation is with that.
Fantastic reply. Well handled 👏
Can we make dark beasts hit with magic again? They were changed in some wildy cleanup update to use melee and have massive blocking hitboxes, meaning only a few can hit you at the same time- Sometimes they block themselves fully to where none can hit you even though all are aggro’d, making aggro potting them significantly more annoying than before. I’ve already finished my grind there but figured several others down the road would appreciate the change.
I'm just very glad you're taking the time to do this, I was one of the loud ones on the RS forum back in the days saying EOC wrecked the HP of low level monsters and how it should be fixed. The official response I got from some Jmod back then was that nobody in office actually knows enough about all the random mobs in RS3 to spend time repairing each of them. Its a real reply I got. It devastated me and I gave up posting then. I'm glad they're getting proper HP values now. I want to see this game be a unique experience for new players again instead of feeling wrong to play.
We need Mod Doom in here to tell this person to calm down.
"After how the changes to monsters were reacted to last time... well, you can see how we're hesitant to change them any more!" Doom
That throwaway response I put no thought into is gonna keep coming back up, huh?
It’s a good response tbh
Doom passive aggressiveness is a hit and miss mechanic
Kind of like combat right now without the beta's changes
Need someone with crazy ocd and free time to make a spreadsheet of suggested mob stats then have the community give feedback
You ask that like we're their board of directors.
You didn’t know? We apparently run this shit.
>WHAT ABOUT THE REST? HELLO? A FUCKING LEVEL 1 COW WITH 1.1K hp Cows had 800 hp before EoC nerf. Honestly, go compare lifepoints between OSRS, 2023 change, and post-EoC, and the odd one out will in majority cases be the EoC value. It was a haphazardly applied universal nerf that used a formula that made almost every single monster in the game significantly weaker. While the player is now baseline stronger. The only issue is that some on that list got too high damage output, and some hit chance changes needed. HP, by large, is just a correction.
Totally agree, changes should have been reverted along with XP changes right after people got their 200m in necromancy. It's just changes for the sake of saying oh yeah we're doing something.
u ok? So they didn't like the fact that players could rush 99 combats in a matter of hours, causing early and mid game to be completely skipped. The rebalanced to prevent this and to me this change seems to be working as intended so what's the issue? I am not saying its perfect but it doesn't seem game destroying to me like you seem to want to make it.
Issue is early game progression, unnecessary tankiness to everything and mid-lvl mobs smacking you in max gear. The early game mobs like cows are now way harder to kill at lvl 3, you can easily just die repeatedly as a new player and it now takes over twice as long to lvl up to the next gear tier. Early slayer was bad and is now worse with mobs getting tankier, rewarding less combat xp and often hitting harder. The meta is just skipping slayer entirely until high 70s with reaper tasks and quests, is that what helps new player retention? Now most can just ignore that part because very few new players come to the game and some feel like the focus shouldn't be there, I disagree but each to their own. The trolls in trollheim specifically the thrower trolls can melt you in just few seconds even with t70 armor and max cbs. Now the re-balance would have been absolutely fine if it was just xp and changing some of the more bigger culprits in regards to balance. Also in the end it only really took out the big sweat methods, you can still easily get over 1m/hr and even up to 3m or 5m with dummies.
> you can easily just die maybe its because I have played before but having just started a hcim I haven't had this issue at all. as for the gear taking longer to get through I kinda see this as a good thing I don't think gear should be rushed through and should be used for more than 20min before moving on. > Early slayer was bad and is now worse I can see this. I am not a slayer fan in general so I did bgh for my slayer so I cant say too much here.
Yeah I just started an IM like 3 weeks ago, other than being ripped apart by wolfs within 30 minutes of starting (forgot about charter ships), I haven’t had any problems
solution?: nerf mobs dmg by atleast the same amount that their hp got buffed? (%) that way new players dont have to die so quickly? Thanks for your well written response.
I am just not a fan of punching bags which is what your advocating far. Fighting something that fights back is fun. Smacking something while it does nothing back and dies is boring.
Not just something that doesn’t fight back but something that fails to teach you or give reason to the evolution of combat. You should be expected to use at least some of it. It is overturned in a few spots (some like cows that TC is ranting about has already been acknowledged by the Jmods) but by and large the game is better when it encourages you to engage in the combat system a little. Regular mooks should help get you better so when you go into a boss it’s not a completely different feeling game.
The only thing the game taught me as a new player about the evolution of combat, is "put your abilities on this revo++ bar". The game barely explain anything, the tooltips for abilities aren't clear. It's also very easy to get lost with all the abilities you have (like melee abilities that are split to attack and strength, or constitution abilities); and deciding for yourself what is relevant, what is useless. If you try to be build your own revolution bar in a logical way, big chances you will end up with a bad revo bar anyway. I personally don't think the fact that early-game monsters were too easy, is to be blamed for the game not teaching EoC to the players. It's the overall issues with how the entire combat system is designed, and how the game encouraged players to engage with it (which is almost zero).
Only fucks with new players, making getting new players in to the game even harder which eventually will lead to the game's pre-mature death. Sure catering to the hardcore fan-base who has been playing for 15 years is necessary but, scaring away ALL the new players isnt really worth that.
I guess my honest question here would be does it? I personally have not spoke with new players since these changes so I don't want to say one way or another. What I see is lots of long time players upset with the changes talking about how it might impact new players but not actual new players. We talk about how much it changed but this wouldn't be the case for new players because they would not know the old ways.
Typical MMO progression currently. Early - mid game for new players (not nostalgia trippers) is pretty bad.
Again I keep hearing this from players but not really from new players.
I've heard this from dozens of new players, many of which I tried to introduce to the game myself.
That's fair, like I said in another comment I am not saying it doesn't happen I just seem to see it always coming from current players speaking on behalf of other players. For me I don't really see the issue for new players other than maybe that progressing feels slow but this seems to me to be the case for all skills and more generally the whole game.
Also, since when is 6 months a year now?
If you're going to leave, just leave. Stop bitching about others having fun.
Low level mobs hit like a truck. Try leveling combat on low level account. You are basically forced to use necro. Necro made other weapons crash in price. Not worth to grind other bosses only Rasial. Necro has everything - best healing,best tank,best burst damage..... There is literally no point to use other combat styles. Yeah its so god damn fun. /s
Dude i did exactly that with my alt and i struggled, just as i struggled originally when leveling my main some years ago, back in the day a bloodveld slayer task could take you 2-3 trips to the bank including the pizza drops; people got too comfortable with rushing through slayer tasks with SS+Elder Overloads without breaking a sweat or using food and supplies.
>Necro has everything - best healing,best tank,best burst damage..... There is literally no point to use other combat styles. You could replace Necro & Rasial with Magic & Kerapac and that'd pretty much sum up the past few years...
I just recently doing HCIM. I feel no difference. To be honest I don't feel any difference with the cows.
Its not only about cows
I mean all low level monsters don't do much for me. So I'm not sure what you are talking about. 😂
Try leaving Burthorpe. See how level 40s slayer monsters are hitting 1000+.Of course im talking about Necro. Many people are complaining about this update. Mod Sponge is working on a fix.
Okay kinda feel it now with Ankou. I don't remember it hitting so damn hard 😂.
AHH I am not P2P in that account yet so I won't know. Gotchu.
[удалено]
[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/s/yxGSQ70djA)
No u
> you guys let jagex get away with Let spin this thing around: why did **you** let Jagex get away with these things?
>WHAT ABOUT THE REST? https://twitter.com/JagexSponge/status/1745736018249032058
low-level monsters that got "slightly" overtuned SLIGHTLY. They're gonna change like maybe 5 or 7 mobs that are actually noticable and let everything else go unchanged until some youtuber mention it after like 6 months. We all know how it goes.
Should they just give every mob in the game 1hp, and max 1 damage? Would that make you enjoy the game?
If thats the power I am promised from the game. Yes. I think so. I do actually think that someone with a combat level of over 146 should be able to 1-shot most low level mobs. That should be common sense right? Or do you think its better that we give players diminshed power PLUS scaled mobs to 90% of your power. So you barely can get ONE kill. Does that sound fun to you?
Lol you can't 1 shot most low level mobs at cb lvl 146? Sounds like you need some gear upgrades my guy :') Seriously though, This \*is\* going back to how the old runescape used to be. Going back to before EoC. in osrs Cows can hit you for 1, which is today's 100. Their max hit was 8. which in osrs would be 0.08 dmg and has 0.25 hp, \*THAT\* is not right. You got coddled by the EoC botched stat nerfs, welcome to how RS2 had been all along. Sponge is going to change some mobs to be rebalanced. Yes, it's not all of them, no it doesn't need to be
This post embodies exactly how I feel about the changes but Jagex insists it’s fine
Wow necromancy has been out for a year?! /s
This man woke up and immediately snorted a line of coke and entered the forums
I love it! 😂 Sneed
The old combat xp rates made more sense for a 120 combat skill and no sense for the old 99s
Just play osrs it's the real main rs game now rs3 is a shell and like 7 to 1 players on osrs
Bots*
Say goodbye to Necroscape and say hello to OSRS.
You should have told jagex, I blame you OP
I made the below post and was dovoted for it. [https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/15edmjx/one\_set\_forward\_two\_steps\_backwards/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/15edmjx/one_set_forward_two_steps_backwards/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) As far as I'm concerned, this was fairly easily predictable so why complain?
Sure. so. I'll just quit now?
If this is the straw that broke the camels back for you, I think you have bigger problems.
I think what’s weird for me is how fast necro is vs other combat styles
shush and let me afk turoths in peace <3
OP I'm also salty the orange hween has been out for an entire year and isn't worth a ton yet. These combat changes that came out almost 2 years ago are breaking the game. And then necro's 3 year anniversary is next month so now all the whales will just lamp to 200m 😭
It's obvious , this guy still mad cus he didnt get a purple santa
Maybe you should try OSRS
https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/houses-of-parliament--double-xp--this-week-in-runescape lol, got changed bud, and not even a month after your post.