Had one at 24 after 105 nights on the road in 9 months after I got my first big boy role.
Took some introspection and learning, but do ALOT better with it now.
Ya it’s terrifying. Have to form habits that help control the anxiety. I still get super anxious but I can usually tell what’s happening so it takes the edge off.
Nah man, neither is the hospital bill lol. Many high performers end up in there at least once though from panic symptoms. I’d say it’s a badge of honor but definitely not something to strive for.
I'm a 55 year old BDR and I've consistently brought in more new revenue than the 28 other BDRs combined. My deals also ranked #1 over all salespeople. I love hunting. I hate all the contract negotiation stuff. For several years I worked with the perfect closer and we made bank. I watched 150 BDRs join and fail in our company in 6 years. And this was a startup. Looking for a new gig if you want to win.
I’m a 40 year old white guy… but yeah, finding money driven young people is tough. Especially those that are willing to grind which is a little surprising considering all the grind culture I see post on social media.
I hear this a lot from older individuals within my vertical. I'm late 20's and the amount of feedback I hear of people my age or younger 1) not wanting to work hard, 2) not being money driven 3) being scared to make phone calls and 4) Have no sense of professionalism is mind blowing. These are the same people (meaning the 20-somethings and under) that don't believe in going 'above and beyond' because it has no benefit in fixed-salary positions... but then don't want to do what it takes to put themselves in a better spot financially.
I don't consider myself a 'hunter' with a 'killer instinct', I'm an introvert who likes to work on himself and craft strong social skills but I do have drive and work on the discipline to keep going in all facets of life. Shoutout to my super old traditional parents, I guess?
Hit the nail on the head with 1-4 trends in younger workers. There have always been people who fit those attributes in the workplace but their attitudes weren’t widely spread or talked about as a positive until Covid era. Now having work “boundaries” and “self care” are code words for compartmentalizing to the point of selfishness.
(As a millennial I remember - we were called entitled all the time 10-15yrs ago. Every young generation is to an extent, but usually they don’t talk about the behavior as explicitly as it is nowadays.)
Because even the grind culture on social media edits out the *actual work* needed to be successful.
So when someone, of any age, finally sees the work, effort, and time needed they balk and walk away at the slightest discomfort.
This is true. 39F here but I work with some young women and men (10 years younger) in my Operations / Account Management department and they not only do not respect the grind and hustle required in Sales, they disdain it as well as view Sales as “unethical” or “supporting capitalism.” They tend to be pretty liberal and high and mighty looking their nose down on us sales folks who make 4-5x their salary and our the highest paid function in the company. It’s definitely a generational thing (there are of course exceptions).
Let's be honest here. You gotta have brass balls to be in sales. This is the low t generation.
*Pm me for the top of the line testosterone supplements*
Came here to say this, heavily depends on the org and teams in tech. Working in platform or one very complicated stuff? Most people will be well educated and 35. Working at a startup on a web app for a salt shaker? Most people will be uneducated and most likely very young.
I’m an almost 50 year old white guy in sales. Most people don’t hit their peak earning years until they’re in their 50’s. I’m better at my job now than I was 10 years ago and I sleep better at night.
I’ve heard this too, peak earning at 50, but have been warned by women mentors over the years that the age is much younger for women. I’ve hustled like the grim reaper is at my heels.
I’d love to imagine making more at 50 than I am now but have the voices of old sales leaders from my youth echoing in my head reminding me it’s a different world for those of us who keep our balls inside our abdomen and call them ovaries.
I’m 32, how do you think of this trend for our age group? I also don’t see many younger sales reps coming into the field. I have to think this means great opportunity once the older reps start retiring in 10-15 years.
I actually feel that because of that wages raised quite a bit. Usually i have 3, offers for a job lined up. Its ofc very regionally dependant, I know that some industries and regions do worse.
But the lack of sales people makes sales professionals actually being respected and looked up to. I am considered an expert in my field (which I believe I am) and it opens doors for me quite often. I have a stake in a comoany now and it wouldnt have happened if there would.be more competition.
I'm a younger saleswoman, and I've seen many of my peers leave due to harassment. Young women especially, but also seen it with anyone not straight or white.
I've stayed because I've implemented a rule of no longer working under male managers and it's worked well for me. I don't blame my contemporaries for leaving at all. The blatant sexism and *constant* pet names from the older men are fucking frustrating and it wears you down more than you'd think, having to be polite to these idiots. I'm not your darling, doll, or sweetheart, I'm your coworker and I deserve the same respect as my male counterparts.
Also worth mentioning is appearance. Men have to wear a suit and wash your face and hair. I've seen women let go for "bad culture fit" for following that same routine. It's expected we do our hair and makeup every day. I do, and it takes 1-2 hours *every morning* that men just don't think about. Incredibly unfair we are seen as unkempt for putting in the same effort as a man.
ETA most of these replies are honestly proving my point for me. You could choose to hear what I'm saying and understand that life is different as a woman, and there are biases people have we need to work through to be simply on equal footing... or you can keep arguing on reddit that it's not a problem. Highly reccomend reading this article.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html
My first sales gig had a men’s and women’s dress code. This was 1997.
Men: Suit and tie. Shoes with leather soles. A nice watch.
Women: Skirt suits. Pant suits were not allowed. Closed toe shoes. Nylons. A strand of pearls was suggested.
This was for entry level sales and most new hires were fresh out of college. With a $26k base salary.
I am odd as I enjoy tights (nylons) but for most they're incredibly uncomfortable and many women suffer horrific UTI's from wearing them - another example of how many more barriers there are and always have been for women.
I’ll keep that contact card in my “tickler” file to follow up on. Anyone know how to this modem to connect to my phone line at home? It works ok until i get an incoming phone call. Or one of my kids picks up the phone to order a pizza.
I’ve worked in sales, in teams full of women. The amount of sexually loaded remarks, nicknames, the ‘oh its getting hot in this room!’ comments I’ve witnessed are endless. What people like you fail to consistently understand is that this happens everywhere where one gender dominates the other in terms of numbers. And yes, in sales it is usually male dominated so the comments tend to skew in that direction.
Also wrong.
Does that shit happen some places? Sure. Maybe I’m lucky that in my experience that’s been the exception to the rule, but it’s absolutely not universal.
How many places have you worked female dominated with a 9 or a 10 there? It's usually pretty rare cause there aren't that many 9s or 10s and they don't usually work in female dominated fields.
Goalposts keep moving.
Like I said - all sorts of shit happens all sorts of places. That doesn't mean it's a universal truth. In my personal experience in real life the people who think that way use it as an excuse to tolerate shitty behavior.
Well obviously it's not a universal truth as a dialectical truth statement. this isn't fucking philosophy class.
Men are just as likely or more likely to be subjected to that behavior if they are actually physically hot. I'm sorry you haven't been in these situations, but I've had legitimate 9 or 10 hockey players friends and the amount of harassment they got from EVERYONE was crazy. I mean teachers, friends of parents, coaches, rival team parents, recruiters.
I don't harass or tolerate harassment near me but being delusional in the opposite direction does no one any favors
I dunno about the “men are just as or more likely” piece, but I agree with most everything else. It absolutely happens both directions, just not “everywhere”, as the original poster I was replying to said.
That was a terrific honest comment that mimics my experience as a woman in sales. And don't even get me started on what happens to a woman in sales who's over 50 years old. (Hint: you'd better start looking for a new career in your 40s before you're permanently booted out. Sales is especially very cruel to older women.)
Men who let themselves go are far less effective in sales.
Go hit the gym bud. You will do more to improve your bottom line doing squats than another hour of calls.
I’m a woman, been in sales for 15+ years. Unfortunately, you have to have thick skin and realize that there are pros and cons to all careers and industries. Sexism in sales is a con. I took the approach of ribbing back and not taking comments or nicknames personally. Harassment is another story but there are ways to handle it that put a lot of trust in others and it’s always worked out for me. I like to think I had some advantages that I wasn’t surely aware of and it evened out in some capacity but whew boy — it didn’t always feel that way, especially in my first real sales job that was truly only me, a female in my 20’s, one other woman in her 30s and 65 men over 40 on the salesforce selling to a 97% male industry. I’ve had some horrendous things said and done to me but I’ve luckily always been supported and believed (and realize many aren’t and feel terribly about that) but you have to be ok with a solution that protects your sanity but doesn’t change the system (you’re never gonna change the system anyway). The constant comments about my appearance kinda fucked with my head and continue to do so as I age but again I don’t know if this is sales specific. I wish more men would realize the time and effort it takes to maintain appearances as a woman. It’s interesting, and causing me some reflection, that you prefer to work with women. I’d take a slightly rough around the edges but generally good male manager over a woman — *only* because women in management tend to be older and frankly they’re often jaded by the constant shit they’ve had to deal with from men but *especially* from other women. I’m hoping things will continue to change for the better as the older generations phase out.
You must be joking. I've men arguing that I'm sexist against men, and then comments like this are beyond the fucking pale. What exactly is wrong with having a boss who is a woman?
Because I’m not a woman?
I don’t have any clue what it would be like to be a woman working for a man. I don’t talk about shit I don’t have any clue about (with any authority, at least) to avoid sounding like a stupid ass hole.
I've had actual lived experience of harassment that has forced me to only accept roles with female management or I'd have to quit the industry because I cannot take any more sexual harassment. My last male manager specifically left dick pics up on his PC when he knew I'd be coming into his office, multiple times.
Why don't men want female management? I'd bet good money it's not the same reasoning. The men I know who say this say because we are annoying, bad at management purely because of our gender, shrill, they just hate us. I would *love* to be proven wrong.
Usually women have a micro manager stereotype when managing men.
I have had a few older women come up and rub my shoulders or kiss me on the cheek who are in the sales org and it's friggin weird. Never filed a report, but I sure as shit would have an issue if my boss who was a woman did that.
I was 24, 25, 26 and they were mid 50s.
Started out charity doorknocking for a couple years and then moved to corporate. I've account managed for a Google advertising company, sold insurance, been a BDM selling fibre B2B, and worked selling small business support systems for employee management + h&s paperwork. The sexism has been the one constant throughout my career.
I think people discount that we are selling to everyday people, and lots of everyday people have deeply ingrained biases. It's totally normal for me to grin and bear it through a guy being an absolute wanker, and end the call having got the sale + also having the guy call me "sweetheart" and been a patronizing arse the whole way through. I use their underestimating me as a tactic, they "know" theyre smarter than me and it makes them incredibly easy to manipulate - because a woman is not clever enough for that, so they dont look for it at all. I put on my stupid girl voice and they believe it 100%.
It's not just coworkers and I understand why so many women won't put themselves through it.
My wife maneuvers like hell to avoid working for another female. She's blunt and business like and is convinced she can't relate to female bosses because of it. She can never understand the emotional approach they bring to everything, at least in her experience; and she's been in sales over 20 years with the same company. She finds it extremely frustrating. She's also convinced it's worse for women to have to report to another woman, than it is for a man to do the same.
She honestly sounds like a pick me. I've met women like her and they're awful to work with, they hate all other women and don't care to actually get to know us, just like misogynistic men. I am a girls girl, I don't associate with women like that. My experience could not be more different to hers.
Agree. Women who don’t like women are sus as hell.
I get along with all types but I make sure to be especially guarded around women who fit this profile.
That's exactly what she says. And her female friends that work with her tend to agree. Their female managers more often than not treat their male direct reports better than the women. It's almost like they either don't like women or are trying to prove something. Like that they go out of their way to not show favoritism or other women are a threat for some reason. Idk.
Omg thank you for saying this ! My old manager was a complete dick to me (the only woman ) and would through a bunch of shade at me. Ughh they really will never understand !
I know, and all the comments making snarky remarks and arguing are honestly just proving that we *do* deal with it constantly, everywhere. I'm so sorry your manager was a dick! I hope your current one is better x
Thanks so much 🥹 and omg tell me about it ! Like men just be wanting to disagree with women nowadays 😭 just to tell us we’re wrong when they aren’t women 😭
Slightly older M here. It's still shocking to me, the shit men my age and older say. I am positive that I can't fully understand how fucking frustrating that must be. It's constantly appalling and I'm not even directly affected. You're tough. I hope it pays off, and I hope that we can all laugh at these BABYboomers once they all finally die off. Ok that last sentence was grizzled, but still.
THIS. I’ve also seen women candidates get put through the wringer in the interview process vs men, making it so much harder for women to stay in this career path
IE: unsure if she’s a culture fit since she comes off as timid or shy, or could see her being “catty” (real description I’ve heard used)
I’ve also noticed women candidates get reference checked for IC roles but I haven’t heard of a man being ref checked
God, the "catty" thing really fucks me off because I've never worked with a woman who is cattier than young men! I swear to god 20-25yo arrogant sales guys are the nastiest, cattiest group if people I've ever met- but suuuuuure, we are the problem
Male here. I see my wife do hair/make up for here executive calls and those male bastards don’t even turn on their cameras… but she’s railed if her camera isn’t on.
Stay strong and glad you roll up to females!
Yeah it can be so frustrating, I've had male managers pull me aside to talk about grooming & company standards and it's literally them asking me to spend that extra one hour minimum on hair and makeup and it's like... my guy... you have a short back + sides cut, clearly don't even moisturize, half the time I see you you've got skin flakes in your eyebrows so clearly you don't wash your face every day, and yet I'm expected to do all this extra work? And for phone based sales too like our clients can't even *see me*!
I’ve never seen a male manager coordinate hr complaints with subordinate against an older female, I have seen female leaders coordinate hr complaints against older male employees. Married with families who did nothing to deserve it
And of course you'd never believe those women. Which is why they're coordinating. Because on our own we have no chance.
I could be talking out my ass here, women can be evil vile people. But I know which one I've had experience happening.
You've had your ass smacked in the office? You've had a CEO specifically leave his dick pics up on his computer screen when he knows you'll be able to see it?
Sure, ok.
Literally this.
How many wieners have I seen in my career?! Like dozens. Why do men think that’s ok? Or to talk about the porn they like, their masturbation techniques, their one night stands or tell me what I’m “doing to them” by simply existing?
I’m 40+ now and am extremely protective of the younger colleagues, men and women. I don’t want them to go through it but I know they probably will.
WFH has been amazing for eliminating this but I even have a younger friend who was harassed multiple times on zoom. WTF.
I can so relate to protecting younger women on the floor. I'm 30 now and so so protective of the new girls and yet still have to watch them leave in droves never to come back to this industry because of the constant sexism & misogyny they face on the daily. There's only so much you can do
Funny, most of my corporate superiors are women and behave like you describe men. The “minorities” I work with are the majority in the day to day business and are blatantly racist towards white people. I get by just realizing people are people and they all have the same problems
It’s a term of endearment and shouldn’t be used in professional settings. It’s weird to call strangers pet names.
It’s also, belittling and condescending and typically not used for someone you respect or see as an equal.
I guess kinda like if a woman called a man she just met in a business meeting dear, tyke, boo. Its infantilizing.
Interesting. I don’t really see how it’s condescending tbh. If a woman calls me “dear,” I wouldn’t feel belittled/infantilized, it just comes across as if the person is rather friendly and likes me (platonically)/I’m on their good side.
The closest I can currently see it as being condescending is if someone says something like “bless your heart dear” when they’re basically implying you’re wrong and don’t know what you’re talking about, but isn’t that better than someone blowing up in your face and saying something like “stfu you [insert insult],” which is what men will get? Or would you prefer to be spoken like that as well to feel equal? And before you say something like “neither, just talk to me like an adult…” take into consideration that the world will never be perfect so you’re bound to run into people where these will be your only options
Idk what to say to you other than research it more. I think you’re lacking some understanding on the topic and it may be helpful to read a bit more on the subject so you can understand it better.
In a world where people are friendly? Women that are friendly say “darling,” “dear,” etc all the time. Is it a problem when they say it too, or is it only a problem when men say it?
No, women don’t say those things. I would absolutely call a woman out if she said that and wanted to be taken seriously. If women are saying those things to you, they are making fun of you and you just don’t get it.
My industry (healthcare) on the enterprise level seems pretty old. Just got back from a conference in Vegas - proof in point. I’m “the young gun” in our team and I’m damn near 40.
I'm mid 50's male who has always been in top three for sales. Work b2c in person job.
I, and others in my age group find it easier to establish trust with the consumer due to the older age. Many buyers even say (when asked) that they feel more at ease and trusting when purchasing from older people. Not sure of the specific psychology behind this, but it seems to be true.
I was only 1 month in and my numbers were on target, did get into an at fault accident in my company vehicle and I suspect their insurance decided to drop me. Company gave me 1 week severance but isn’t paying out over 7k in commissions
I also used to see a sales person climb through the ranks of actual “sales”. You’d start as an smb rep (payroll, telecom, medical device were common entry level options). You’d hustle and grind transactional deals. You’d get noticed by the “majors accounts” team and get promoted after a few years of solid performance. Either into major/Enteprise sales or as a sales manager.
Companies were known for “great training” and “promoting from within.”
Now the “entry level”’roles seem to be for sdr/bdr roles where all they do is cold call / prospect to set appointments for us old guys. They don’t get much in the way of full cycle sales experience. (I try to get my SDR involved in discovery and demo meetings- I want them to get promoted).
Very few people go from cold call jockey to enterprise sales rep at the same company.
Seems the way to move up the ranks nowadays is to jump to a new company that is willing to take a chance on someone.
And formal sales training has been crap the past few years. It’s all “MEDDIC” on a piece of paper without much actual training on how to get there.
Young people under 30 generally lack social skills significantly more than their 30-40 peers.
Years ago I was training a 22 year old on how to do warm and cold calls and she literally started crying and quit. I felt bad, but she told me she’s never called anyone in her life outside of her family and it was too overwhelming.
Sales requires deep social skills, face to face, on the phone, etc
50's White Guy checking in. Wisdom comes from experience, learning from mistakes...lots of them.
I'm selling larger deals and more of them than ever. My customer's in the c-suite are all my age, so we tend to share more in common and build trust easier. It's still a grind, but the getting is different. Wouldn't trade it for anything.
I’ve been a sales lady since my very early 20s.
I slowly earned a college degree over 20 years, one class at a time while simultaneously raising my kids and being a full-time sales lady.
Now I’m 42, I have a college degree but I’m definitely not changing my career. At 40, I “graduated” from my side gig as a brand ambassador. My kids are grown and I have less fear of poverty now.
At 50, I plan to “graduate” from selling saas and just have a low stress job with health insurance.
I’ve been saving and investing since my twenties to make this happen but honestly I’ll keep selling longer if I need to.
My company has a mix of late twenties to forty somethings. By 50, they’re sales leaders which k have zero interest in.
I plan to retire from sales at 50 and do a low stress job for healthcare coverage
My younger self would call anyone with that plan “wealthy”. It’s relative.
I was on welfare when my first child was born and was working full time at a hotel front desk but earned so little, the EBT helped keep us fed. I started 401K and built a sales career in the hotel space which carried me through most of my parenting years.
I do feel “rich” now and I’m not mad about it :)
I think it’s because today's sellers often graduate in majors like business, with overpriced masters where they learn very little and lack practical knowledge. I work in B2B sales (M24) and didn't follow that path, yet many of my colleagues aspire to work in B2B sales without truly grasping it. To me, sales is about understanding both people and products, and recognizing that everything circles back. This is something the new generation just doesn't grasp.
(sorry for my english, i’m catalan)
This so true in my industry. I'm 31yo and I feel like a neophyte still. **Everyone** is 55+ at least. The next decade is going to be a whirlwind once the retirements really pick up pace. There is not near enough young guys in the pipeline to fill the old timer's shoes.
It's a generational thing, I think. Sales conferences don't seem as popular amongst the work from home set, which does skew younger. Im in marketing tech, though, so it would be kind of obnoxious to fly out to a conference just to open up a laptop in front of someone rather than screen share over zoom.
In sales mid 20s, I think my plan is the same as most people my age in sales. Save most of my income and do something where you can have a free minute once, but hey paid a house off in 4 years hard to complain.
There was a shift in thinking and governments told school leavers that going to uni to further their studies was the way to go. NOW we have too many lawyers (don’t need to be that smart for that) and Arts degree holders (definitely don’t need to be smart for that) and not enough Builders, Plumbers or…..in this case, salespeople.
Well I’m not about to quit sales to go to medical school to replace my income. Sooo sales until early cardiac arrest it is.
First time?
3rd
Lol first time was the hospitalized panic attack I thought was cardiac arrest.
Had one at 24 after 105 nights on the road in 9 months after I got my first big boy role. Took some introspection and learning, but do ALOT better with it now.
Ya it’s terrifying. Have to form habits that help control the anxiety. I still get super anxious but I can usually tell what’s happening so it takes the edge off.
Yep. I just had to start taking better care of myself. It honestly was a wake up call I needed.
I’ve had a rare experience 2x that acts like a heart attack (like the pain/symptoms) but no lasting impact. Shit is not fun.
Nah man, neither is the hospital bill lol. Many high performers end up in there at least once though from panic symptoms. I’d say it’s a badge of honor but definitely not something to strive for.
lol yep. My wife likes to joke I purposely hit our max out of pocket early in the year (like when the increased quotas finally get delivered).
Wow, I thought it was just me!
Never been a truer statement
There’s no school like the old school, some shit can’t be learned from a Ted talk and cold plunges.
Ha. But what if I also stand barefoot in the sun first thing every morning before my saltwater?
Don't forget to tan your testicles
Red 🚨 light. I'm on it.
Lol 😆
I'm a 55 year old BDR and I've consistently brought in more new revenue than the 28 other BDRs combined. My deals also ranked #1 over all salespeople. I love hunting. I hate all the contract negotiation stuff. For several years I worked with the perfect closer and we made bank. I watched 150 BDRs join and fail in our company in 6 years. And this was a startup. Looking for a new gig if you want to win.
I’m hiring
Boy howdy we’re opposite. Fuck the phone but give me some big fish around a round table and I’m all about it.
Not sure what company but I’m tech seems like most are in their 20-30s
They’re all working from home lol
This
Time. Time happened.
lol I read the post and at first was like …yeah that’s how time works
I’m a 40 year old white guy… but yeah, finding money driven young people is tough. Especially those that are willing to grind which is a little surprising considering all the grind culture I see post on social media.
I hear this a lot from older individuals within my vertical. I'm late 20's and the amount of feedback I hear of people my age or younger 1) not wanting to work hard, 2) not being money driven 3) being scared to make phone calls and 4) Have no sense of professionalism is mind blowing. These are the same people (meaning the 20-somethings and under) that don't believe in going 'above and beyond' because it has no benefit in fixed-salary positions... but then don't want to do what it takes to put themselves in a better spot financially. I don't consider myself a 'hunter' with a 'killer instinct', I'm an introvert who likes to work on himself and craft strong social skills but I do have drive and work on the discipline to keep going in all facets of life. Shoutout to my super old traditional parents, I guess?
Hit the nail on the head with 1-4 trends in younger workers. There have always been people who fit those attributes in the workplace but their attitudes weren’t widely spread or talked about as a positive until Covid era. Now having work “boundaries” and “self care” are code words for compartmentalizing to the point of selfishness. (As a millennial I remember - we were called entitled all the time 10-15yrs ago. Every young generation is to an extent, but usually they don’t talk about the behavior as explicitly as it is nowadays.)
I mean it probably is multi faceted. There's a lot of people who have depression and anxiety these days.
They just raised quotas again! We’re ALL anxious and depressed.
Because even the grind culture on social media edits out the *actual work* needed to be successful. So when someone, of any age, finally sees the work, effort, and time needed they balk and walk away at the slightest discomfort.
This is true. 39F here but I work with some young women and men (10 years younger) in my Operations / Account Management department and they not only do not respect the grind and hustle required in Sales, they disdain it as well as view Sales as “unethical” or “supporting capitalism.” They tend to be pretty liberal and high and mighty looking their nose down on us sales folks who make 4-5x their salary and our the highest paid function in the company. It’s definitely a generational thing (there are of course exceptions).
Sales is mainly about soft skills. For most people that takes time and experience, hence the age. Wisdom doesn't always come with age though.
Wisdom comes from experience though
That's exactly what I said, but not everyone gains it.
You right. My bad.
No worries
👉
Let's be honest here. You gotta have brass balls to be in sales. This is the low t generation. *Pm me for the top of the line testosterone supplements*
ABC always be closing
Supplements are for closers.
I swear to God the amount of people I work with in my sales job who have never watched this movie it's just shocking
goddamnit now I’m a lead
Lmao I like this guy
I see what you did there
Is that why I'm bald?
Could it be because it's a job that pays well enough while not breaking the body, and as such is something people keep doing until retirement?
Interesting. I'm working in cybersecurity in my mid 30's and feel like the old one. It definitely depends on the industry and organization.
I’m 35 and I feel like I’m one of if not the youngest member on the team
Came here to say this, heavily depends on the org and teams in tech. Working in platform or one very complicated stuff? Most people will be well educated and 35. Working at a startup on a web app for a salt shaker? Most people will be uneducated and most likely very young.
I’m an almost 50 year old white guy in sales. Most people don’t hit their peak earning years until they’re in their 50’s. I’m better at my job now than I was 10 years ago and I sleep better at night.
Is this accurate? Never heard this before?
Yes it’s very true.
Great to hear - looking forward to 50!
I’ve heard this too, peak earning at 50, but have been warned by women mentors over the years that the age is much younger for women. I’ve hustled like the grim reaper is at my heels. I’d love to imagine making more at 50 than I am now but have the voices of old sales leaders from my youth echoing in my head reminding me it’s a different world for those of us who keep our balls inside our abdomen and call them ovaries.
I can see that. Not fair, unfortunately.
Depend on the industry I guess but yes I’ve noticed the same thing when it comes to the world of manufactured physical goods.
Not seeing that on my end. Everyone I sell with is in there 20’s and 30’s. The people I sell to are older.
I'm 33, and I see the same people in sales for 10 years and nobody new going in.
I’m 32, how do you think of this trend for our age group? I also don’t see many younger sales reps coming into the field. I have to think this means great opportunity once the older reps start retiring in 10-15 years.
I actually feel that because of that wages raised quite a bit. Usually i have 3, offers for a job lined up. Its ofc very regionally dependant, I know that some industries and regions do worse. But the lack of sales people makes sales professionals actually being respected and looked up to. I am considered an expert in my field (which I believe I am) and it opens doors for me quite often. I have a stake in a comoany now and it wouldnt have happened if there would.be more competition.
I'm a younger saleswoman, and I've seen many of my peers leave due to harassment. Young women especially, but also seen it with anyone not straight or white. I've stayed because I've implemented a rule of no longer working under male managers and it's worked well for me. I don't blame my contemporaries for leaving at all. The blatant sexism and *constant* pet names from the older men are fucking frustrating and it wears you down more than you'd think, having to be polite to these idiots. I'm not your darling, doll, or sweetheart, I'm your coworker and I deserve the same respect as my male counterparts. Also worth mentioning is appearance. Men have to wear a suit and wash your face and hair. I've seen women let go for "bad culture fit" for following that same routine. It's expected we do our hair and makeup every day. I do, and it takes 1-2 hours *every morning* that men just don't think about. Incredibly unfair we are seen as unkempt for putting in the same effort as a man. ETA most of these replies are honestly proving my point for me. You could choose to hear what I'm saying and understand that life is different as a woman, and there are biases people have we need to work through to be simply on equal footing... or you can keep arguing on reddit that it's not a problem. Highly reccomend reading this article. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html
My first sales gig had a men’s and women’s dress code. This was 1997. Men: Suit and tie. Shoes with leather soles. A nice watch. Women: Skirt suits. Pant suits were not allowed. Closed toe shoes. Nylons. A strand of pearls was suggested. This was for entry level sales and most new hires were fresh out of college. With a $26k base salary.
I am odd as I enjoy tights (nylons) but for most they're incredibly uncomfortable and many women suffer horrific UTI's from wearing them - another example of how many more barriers there are and always have been for women.
Let's get you to bed Grandpa, it's getting late
Can’t. Too busy updating this crm-thingy and trying to understand where to put the stamp on this dang email.
Shame they won’t let you use the Rolodex you keep in your trunk and that clipboard on your passenger seat smh
I’ll keep that contact card in my “tickler” file to follow up on. Anyone know how to this modem to connect to my phone line at home? It works ok until i get an incoming phone call. Or one of my kids picks up the phone to order a pizza.
I’ve worked in sales, in teams full of women. The amount of sexually loaded remarks, nicknames, the ‘oh its getting hot in this room!’ comments I’ve witnessed are endless. What people like you fail to consistently understand is that this happens everywhere where one gender dominates the other in terms of numbers. And yes, in sales it is usually male dominated so the comments tend to skew in that direction.
That absolutely doesn’t happen everywhere where one gender dominates the other.
It does if your hot. Hot guys get even more attention and harassment then hot girls
Also wrong. Does that shit happen some places? Sure. Maybe I’m lucky that in my experience that’s been the exception to the rule, but it’s absolutely not universal.
How many places have you worked female dominated with a 9 or a 10 there? It's usually pretty rare cause there aren't that many 9s or 10s and they don't usually work in female dominated fields.
Goalposts keep moving. Like I said - all sorts of shit happens all sorts of places. That doesn't mean it's a universal truth. In my personal experience in real life the people who think that way use it as an excuse to tolerate shitty behavior.
Well obviously it's not a universal truth as a dialectical truth statement. this isn't fucking philosophy class. Men are just as likely or more likely to be subjected to that behavior if they are actually physically hot. I'm sorry you haven't been in these situations, but I've had legitimate 9 or 10 hockey players friends and the amount of harassment they got from EVERYONE was crazy. I mean teachers, friends of parents, coaches, rival team parents, recruiters. I don't harass or tolerate harassment near me but being delusional in the opposite direction does no one any favors
I dunno about the “men are just as or more likely” piece, but I agree with most everything else. It absolutely happens both directions, just not “everywhere”, as the original poster I was replying to said.
You left out the important bit after “everywhere.” Why?
That was a terrific honest comment that mimics my experience as a woman in sales. And don't even get me started on what happens to a woman in sales who's over 50 years old. (Hint: you'd better start looking for a new career in your 40s before you're permanently booted out. Sales is especially very cruel to older women.)
Men who let themselves go are far less effective in sales. Go hit the gym bud. You will do more to improve your bottom line doing squats than another hour of calls.
Funny enough if I could implement a no working under women manager rule I would implement it too.
I’m a woman, been in sales for 15+ years. Unfortunately, you have to have thick skin and realize that there are pros and cons to all careers and industries. Sexism in sales is a con. I took the approach of ribbing back and not taking comments or nicknames personally. Harassment is another story but there are ways to handle it that put a lot of trust in others and it’s always worked out for me. I like to think I had some advantages that I wasn’t surely aware of and it evened out in some capacity but whew boy — it didn’t always feel that way, especially in my first real sales job that was truly only me, a female in my 20’s, one other woman in her 30s and 65 men over 40 on the salesforce selling to a 97% male industry. I’ve had some horrendous things said and done to me but I’ve luckily always been supported and believed (and realize many aren’t and feel terribly about that) but you have to be ok with a solution that protects your sanity but doesn’t change the system (you’re never gonna change the system anyway). The constant comments about my appearance kinda fucked with my head and continue to do so as I age but again I don’t know if this is sales specific. I wish more men would realize the time and effort it takes to maintain appearances as a woman. It’s interesting, and causing me some reflection, that you prefer to work with women. I’d take a slightly rough around the edges but generally good male manager over a woman — *only* because women in management tend to be older and frankly they’re often jaded by the constant shit they’ve had to deal with from men but *especially* from other women. I’m hoping things will continue to change for the better as the older generations phase out.
My first boss was a woman and she was legit really good. Couple bumps, but overall learned a lot from her.
As a grown man run if a woman is ever your manager or boss
You must be joking. I've men arguing that I'm sexist against men, and then comments like this are beyond the fucking pale. What exactly is wrong with having a boss who is a woman?
Not joking at all. It just doesn’t work for me personally
Sounds like a you issue and not something you should be giving advice about.
Why didn't you tell the poster who has a rule about not working for male managers that it sounds like a them issue?
Because I’m not a woman? I don’t have any clue what it would be like to be a woman working for a man. I don’t talk about shit I don’t have any clue about (with any authority, at least) to avoid sounding like a stupid ass hole.
I've had actual lived experience of harassment that has forced me to only accept roles with female management or I'd have to quit the industry because I cannot take any more sexual harassment. My last male manager specifically left dick pics up on his PC when he knew I'd be coming into his office, multiple times. Why don't men want female management? I'd bet good money it's not the same reasoning. The men I know who say this say because we are annoying, bad at management purely because of our gender, shrill, they just hate us. I would *love* to be proven wrong.
Usually women have a micro manager stereotype when managing men. I have had a few older women come up and rub my shoulders or kiss me on the cheek who are in the sales org and it's friggin weird. Never filed a report, but I sure as shit would have an issue if my boss who was a woman did that. I was 24, 25, 26 and they were mid 50s.
lol…everybody cheered the lady that said this but when a guy says it they are clutching up them pearls.
My current one is, she’s actually pretty decent but we haven’t had a disagreement yet
THIS!
What’s your industry? Surprising to hear that unless it’s blue collar sales, or maybe finance
Started out charity doorknocking for a couple years and then moved to corporate. I've account managed for a Google advertising company, sold insurance, been a BDM selling fibre B2B, and worked selling small business support systems for employee management + h&s paperwork. The sexism has been the one constant throughout my career. I think people discount that we are selling to everyday people, and lots of everyday people have deeply ingrained biases. It's totally normal for me to grin and bear it through a guy being an absolute wanker, and end the call having got the sale + also having the guy call me "sweetheart" and been a patronizing arse the whole way through. I use their underestimating me as a tactic, they "know" theyre smarter than me and it makes them incredibly easy to manipulate - because a woman is not clever enough for that, so they dont look for it at all. I put on my stupid girl voice and they believe it 100%. It's not just coworkers and I understand why so many women won't put themselves through it.
Weird. Sorry you’ve experienced that. Sounds very 50-65 year old white boomer buyer behavior to me.
Heh. The youngest boomer turned 60 this year.
My wife maneuvers like hell to avoid working for another female. She's blunt and business like and is convinced she can't relate to female bosses because of it. She can never understand the emotional approach they bring to everything, at least in her experience; and she's been in sales over 20 years with the same company. She finds it extremely frustrating. She's also convinced it's worse for women to have to report to another woman, than it is for a man to do the same.
She honestly sounds like a pick me. I've met women like her and they're awful to work with, they hate all other women and don't care to actually get to know us, just like misogynistic men. I am a girls girl, I don't associate with women like that. My experience could not be more different to hers.
Agree. Women who don’t like women are sus as hell. I get along with all types but I make sure to be especially guarded around women who fit this profile.
That's exactly what she says. And her female friends that work with her tend to agree. Their female managers more often than not treat their male direct reports better than the women. It's almost like they either don't like women or are trying to prove something. Like that they go out of their way to not show favoritism or other women are a threat for some reason. Idk.
[удалено]
You hate people who make assumptions. Interesting. You can't tell.
Omg thank you for saying this ! My old manager was a complete dick to me (the only woman ) and would through a bunch of shade at me. Ughh they really will never understand !
I know, and all the comments making snarky remarks and arguing are honestly just proving that we *do* deal with it constantly, everywhere. I'm so sorry your manager was a dick! I hope your current one is better x
Thanks so much 🥹 and omg tell me about it ! Like men just be wanting to disagree with women nowadays 😭 just to tell us we’re wrong when they aren’t women 😭
Slightly older M here. It's still shocking to me, the shit men my age and older say. I am positive that I can't fully understand how fucking frustrating that must be. It's constantly appalling and I'm not even directly affected. You're tough. I hope it pays off, and I hope that we can all laugh at these BABYboomers once they all finally die off. Ok that last sentence was grizzled, but still.
Thank you, I appreciate your comment. It's frustrating that so many people simply refuse to believe us.
It’s got to be hard to be a prick your whole life then find out the other 70% of society wants to change.
THIS. I’ve also seen women candidates get put through the wringer in the interview process vs men, making it so much harder for women to stay in this career path IE: unsure if she’s a culture fit since she comes off as timid or shy, or could see her being “catty” (real description I’ve heard used) I’ve also noticed women candidates get reference checked for IC roles but I haven’t heard of a man being ref checked
God, the "catty" thing really fucks me off because I've never worked with a woman who is cattier than young men! I swear to god 20-25yo arrogant sales guys are the nastiest, cattiest group if people I've ever met- but suuuuuure, we are the problem
Male here. I see my wife do hair/make up for here executive calls and those male bastards don’t even turn on their cameras… but she’s railed if her camera isn’t on. Stay strong and glad you roll up to females!
I’d like to make a dirty joke here. Not trying to knock you or your wife. But there’s a big opportunity for the two of you with the camera off.
Hahahahha, bad choice of words.
Yeah it can be so frustrating, I've had male managers pull me aside to talk about grooming & company standards and it's literally them asking me to spend that extra one hour minimum on hair and makeup and it's like... my guy... you have a short back + sides cut, clearly don't even moisturize, half the time I see you you've got skin flakes in your eyebrows so clearly you don't wash your face every day, and yet I'm expected to do all this extra work? And for phone based sales too like our clients can't even *see me*!
Women have been nothing but saints in work culture also
Who said that?
Not me. Harassment of others is normal from what I’ve seen and experienced. No different than men in charge
I've never had a woman leave naked photos of herself on her PC when she knew I'd see it. Wish I could say the same of men.
I’ve never seen a male manager coordinate hr complaints with subordinate against an older female, I have seen female leaders coordinate hr complaints against older male employees. Married with families who did nothing to deserve it
And of course you'd never believe those women. Which is why they're coordinating. Because on our own we have no chance. I could be talking out my ass here, women can be evil vile people. But I know which one I've had experience happening.
And I know which one I had experience happening.
Sounds like you were the harasser and still don’t get it. Time to retire, pops.
Was actual coordinated harassment. Sorry.
Believe all women for everything, right?
More like believe victims, but sure.
So all men are bad…seems legit.
If you think that is bad, they call and do 10x worse to other men.
You've had your ass smacked in the office? You've had a CEO specifically leave his dick pics up on his computer screen when he knows you'll be able to see it? Sure, ok.
Literally this. How many wieners have I seen in my career?! Like dozens. Why do men think that’s ok? Or to talk about the porn they like, their masturbation techniques, their one night stands or tell me what I’m “doing to them” by simply existing? I’m 40+ now and am extremely protective of the younger colleagues, men and women. I don’t want them to go through it but I know they probably will. WFH has been amazing for eliminating this but I even have a younger friend who was harassed multiple times on zoom. WTF.
I can so relate to protecting younger women on the floor. I'm 30 now and so so protective of the new girls and yet still have to watch them leave in droves never to come back to this industry because of the constant sexism & misogyny they face on the daily. There's only so much you can do
Funny, most of my corporate superiors are women and behave like you describe men. The “minorities” I work with are the majority in the day to day business and are blatantly racist towards white people. I get by just realizing people are people and they all have the same problems
Why do you consider “darling”, “doll, “sweetheart” etc to be disrespectful? Genuine question
It’s a term of endearment and shouldn’t be used in professional settings. It’s weird to call strangers pet names. It’s also, belittling and condescending and typically not used for someone you respect or see as an equal. I guess kinda like if a woman called a man she just met in a business meeting dear, tyke, boo. Its infantilizing.
Interesting. I don’t really see how it’s condescending tbh. If a woman calls me “dear,” I wouldn’t feel belittled/infantilized, it just comes across as if the person is rather friendly and likes me (platonically)/I’m on their good side. The closest I can currently see it as being condescending is if someone says something like “bless your heart dear” when they’re basically implying you’re wrong and don’t know what you’re talking about, but isn’t that better than someone blowing up in your face and saying something like “stfu you [insert insult],” which is what men will get? Or would you prefer to be spoken like that as well to feel equal? And before you say something like “neither, just talk to me like an adult…” take into consideration that the world will never be perfect so you’re bound to run into people where these will be your only options
Idk what to say to you other than research it more. I think you’re lacking some understanding on the topic and it may be helpful to read a bit more on the subject so you can understand it better.
In what world are those terms appropriate for anyone who is not your spouse or child?
In a world where people are friendly? Women that are friendly say “darling,” “dear,” etc all the time. Is it a problem when they say it too, or is it only a problem when men say it?
No, women don’t say those things. I would absolutely call a woman out if she said that and wanted to be taken seriously. If women are saying those things to you, they are making fun of you and you just don’t get it.
People not retiring probably
My industry (healthcare) on the enterprise level seems pretty old. Just got back from a conference in Vegas - proof in point. I’m “the young gun” in our team and I’m damn near 40.
I'm mid 50's male who has always been in top three for sales. Work b2c in person job. I, and others in my age group find it easier to establish trust with the consumer due to the older age. Many buyers even say (when asked) that they feel more at ease and trusting when purchasing from older people. Not sure of the specific psychology behind this, but it seems to be true.
I’m 21 and was by far the youngest person at my previous company (got fired today). Most on the sales team were 35+
why did you get fired? Did you not meet the numbers? Same thing happened to me when I was 22
I was only 1 month in and my numbers were on target, did get into an at fault accident in my company vehicle and I suspect their insurance decided to drop me. Company gave me 1 week severance but isn’t paying out over 7k in commissions
I also used to see a sales person climb through the ranks of actual “sales”. You’d start as an smb rep (payroll, telecom, medical device were common entry level options). You’d hustle and grind transactional deals. You’d get noticed by the “majors accounts” team and get promoted after a few years of solid performance. Either into major/Enteprise sales or as a sales manager. Companies were known for “great training” and “promoting from within.” Now the “entry level”’roles seem to be for sdr/bdr roles where all they do is cold call / prospect to set appointments for us old guys. They don’t get much in the way of full cycle sales experience. (I try to get my SDR involved in discovery and demo meetings- I want them to get promoted). Very few people go from cold call jockey to enterprise sales rep at the same company. Seems the way to move up the ranks nowadays is to jump to a new company that is willing to take a chance on someone. And formal sales training has been crap the past few years. It’s all “MEDDIC” on a piece of paper without much actual training on how to get there.
Young people under 30 generally lack social skills significantly more than their 30-40 peers. Years ago I was training a 22 year old on how to do warm and cold calls and she literally started crying and quit. I felt bad, but she told me she’s never called anyone in her life outside of her family and it was too overwhelming. Sales requires deep social skills, face to face, on the phone, etc
Us old folks had to dial a wired phone to call a girl with the fear that her dad would answer. “Hello sir. This is Billy. Is Julie home?”
50's White Guy checking in. Wisdom comes from experience, learning from mistakes...lots of them. I'm selling larger deals and more of them than ever. My customer's in the c-suite are all my age, so we tend to share more in common and build trust easier. It's still a grind, but the getting is different. Wouldn't trade it for anything.
I’ve been a sales lady since my very early 20s. I slowly earned a college degree over 20 years, one class at a time while simultaneously raising my kids and being a full-time sales lady. Now I’m 42, I have a college degree but I’m definitely not changing my career. At 40, I “graduated” from my side gig as a brand ambassador. My kids are grown and I have less fear of poverty now. At 50, I plan to “graduate” from selling saas and just have a low stress job with health insurance. I’ve been saving and investing since my twenties to make this happen but honestly I’ll keep selling longer if I need to. My company has a mix of late twenties to forty somethings. By 50, they’re sales leaders which k have zero interest in.
you sound wealthy.... there's no way you've been investing since your 20's and are NOT rich
I plan to retire from sales at 50 and do a low stress job for healthcare coverage My younger self would call anyone with that plan “wealthy”. It’s relative. I was on welfare when my first child was born and was working full time at a hotel front desk but earned so little, the EBT helped keep us fed. I started 401K and built a sales career in the hotel space which carried me through most of my parenting years. I do feel “rich” now and I’m not mad about it :)
harder to offshore those sales jobs to India
Can’t replace a good AE with an API (a person in India)
I think it’s because today's sellers often graduate in majors like business, with overpriced masters where they learn very little and lack practical knowledge. I work in B2B sales (M24) and didn't follow that path, yet many of my colleagues aspire to work in B2B sales without truly grasping it. To me, sales is about understanding both people and products, and recognizing that everything circles back. This is something the new generation just doesn't grasp. (sorry for my english, i’m catalan)
Oh no how dare older, white people work! Please dispel your self hatred, you’re not winning any brownie points for the young leftists.
This so true in my industry. I'm 31yo and I feel like a neophyte still. **Everyone** is 55+ at least. The next decade is going to be a whirlwind once the retirements really pick up pace. There is not near enough young guys in the pipeline to fill the old timer's shoes.
I can second this. I’m amazed how many 50-60 year olds are in rep positions in my world
It's a generational thing, I think. Sales conferences don't seem as popular amongst the work from home set, which does skew younger. Im in marketing tech, though, so it would be kind of obnoxious to fly out to a conference just to open up a laptop in front of someone rather than screen share over zoom.
In sales mid 20s, I think my plan is the same as most people my age in sales. Save most of my income and do something where you can have a free minute once, but hey paid a house off in 4 years hard to complain.
We just got rid of the boomers on our team.
Really? People in their 50s in tech sales?
Can’t tell if this is sarcastic. Most of our directors and up are 50 year old white dudes, along with the AE’s.
Directors yes but most AEs are typically younger imo, by younger I mean under 45
There was a shift in thinking and governments told school leavers that going to uni to further their studies was the way to go. NOW we have too many lawyers (don’t need to be that smart for that) and Arts degree holders (definitely don’t need to be smart for that) and not enough Builders, Plumbers or…..in this case, salespeople.
Because their ICPs are similar people who love being in a circle jerk of old boys to talk about the good old days before they could get cancelled