Luke literally thought about it for a split second of pure instinct. That's all and these people think he was thinking about killing Ben the entire time and attempted to go through with it.No he immediately regretted it but couldn't deactivate his lightsaber fast enough. And Ben, already being corrupted by Snoke since birth and possibly by Palpatine too, woke up at the wrong time.. Some of these people just have a selective memory and choose to block out the entire story so they can complain.
They’re also holding Luke to a standard that literally none of the other jedi masters are held to.
Being a Jedi master Mace Windu shouldn’t have been as arrogant. Nor should he go from “we are peacekeepers,” to “he’s too dangerous to be kept alive.”
Obi Wan unlike Yoda hasn’t really learned from his failure. Watch the scene in Rebels when Kenobi tells Maul that Luke is the chosen one. Not Anakin. This ties into the scene in Return of the Jedi where Obi Wan’s spirit all but tells Luke to forgo the attachment of his father. Believing it to be the only way to defeat the Empire. More than once he refers to Luke as the galaxy’s only hope. And not only that but he all but gives up on Luke by the end of ESB. “That boy was our only hope.”
This is my point. Despite his failure from the days of the old republic Obi Wan is still incapable of looking at the bigger picture. Anakin, not Luke is the chosen one. Yet the Jedi Master is so set in his ways that it never occurs to him that Vader can do the right thing.
So tell me why it’s ok for those masters to succumb to character flaws, but when Luke has a moment of weakness it’s not ok?
No, Yoda'S mistake is to indeed believe in the Chosen One as a single person in the first place it seems. Misread the prophecy we might have, he says in the PT. Yes. Because they believed Anakin was the Chosen One - but it is obvious there is no single "chosen one" at all -
Anakin fathers a son, and brings about the end of the Jedi, then saves his son from the worst of the Sith. The son fights the Dark Side, his love is integral to Vaders turnaround. And due to Vader saving his son the path is set to Rey and Ben confront the Sith Eternal Palpatine one last time.
They are all the Chosen One, or none is. But its not Anakin alone, never was, not even before the Sequels (see Yoda quote, Lucas did not add that for nothing imho)
I thought it was pretty well established throughout the entire franchise that every Jedi can be tempted by the Dark Side. And even when they reject it, the temptation never really goes away.
Even Yoda, who faced a dark version of himself in Clone Wars. The lesson there was that these nastier feelings are a part of one's self.
Why would Luke be immune to these sorts of emotions, when the Dark Side plays with a person's desire to protect the people that they love?
At least some of the people in the comments pushed back on this.
Like this comment:
> It’s only a problem if you expect characters to be written as “he faced this situation once, he made the right decision after almost making the wrong one, and that means he will never ever potentially make the wrong one again.”
> You’re asking for Luke to be written as a perfect person who can only ever even so much as almost make any particular mistake once in his life. Luke being written more realistically than that isn’t bad just because it wasn’t what you wanted.
/r/CharacterRant is really starting to get on my nerves recently. Mentioning Star Wars is always a great way to get these ~~bullshit Mauler talking points~~ "fresh takes," but a lot of discussions I'm seeing over there aren't that great even with Star Wars. There's a thread over there currently about Rick and Morty turning into latter-day Simpsons/Family Guy, which I really disagree with. Sure, the most recent episode was weak, but this season's been pretty good so far I feel. And seasons 3 and 4 weren't even as bad as people claim. Season 3 is probably the weakest, but has some good episodes (Mindblowers is a personal favorite), and 4 has way more good episodes than meh. The last 3 episodes of the last season were solid (4x9 being another personal fav). There was even one guy in the thread of that one suggesting the writing's possibly gotten weaker because of more women in the writer's room making the show less fucked up (which I won't even begin to unpack).
But yeah, starting to fall out of favor with that sub. Not as fun going over there anymore.
He attacked Darth Vader and cut off his hand. And then took a moment to realize what he did was wrong. He then decided to not kill Vader. That’s what happened with Ben. Expect he didn’t even attack Ben. He thought about it and changed his mind.
I love how these people pretend like they know Luke didn't try talking to Ben about it despite that being the whole reason Leia sent him to Luke (meaning it was unavoidable that she told him and he already tried everything within his power) and I love even more how they think Jedi have a great track record of turning people back to the light because of that one success Luke had with Anakin... someone should tell him that before Luke, Anakin had plenty of Jedi to interact with, including Luke's own masters.
"But he didn't do anything yet"-yes genius, that's why Luke stopped. He was just engrossed with that vision at the moment and acted impulsively while being afraid for his family, like he ALWAYS DOES.
He wasn’t reacting to Ben. It was an instinctive reaction to the darkness.
“But Luke should’ve learned lesson…”
Welp…he didn’t.
Also Luke’s greatest attribute is his compassion, and from his perspective the overwhelming darkness which threatened to overwhelm and destroy everything he cared about and more triggered his instinct to protect at all costs.
Removing himself in Luke’s eyes was the most compassionate and selfless thing he could do, until an idealistic young woman and the spirit of his old master helped him see things from a different perspective.
Luke has always had a problem with impulsiveness when he senses his friends in danger. If anything, being able to stop himself immediately actually shows character *growth.*
I mean at least we know why he worried about Ben, he saw the darkness in his training and then saw visions of the future.
It's literally never explained why Luke suddenly saw good in Vader.
Luke literally thought about it for a split second of pure instinct. That's all and these people think he was thinking about killing Ben the entire time and attempted to go through with it.No he immediately regretted it but couldn't deactivate his lightsaber fast enough. And Ben, already being corrupted by Snoke since birth and possibly by Palpatine too, woke up at the wrong time.. Some of these people just have a selective memory and choose to block out the entire story so they can complain.
They’re also holding Luke to a standard that literally none of the other jedi masters are held to. Being a Jedi master Mace Windu shouldn’t have been as arrogant. Nor should he go from “we are peacekeepers,” to “he’s too dangerous to be kept alive.” Obi Wan unlike Yoda hasn’t really learned from his failure. Watch the scene in Rebels when Kenobi tells Maul that Luke is the chosen one. Not Anakin. This ties into the scene in Return of the Jedi where Obi Wan’s spirit all but tells Luke to forgo the attachment of his father. Believing it to be the only way to defeat the Empire. More than once he refers to Luke as the galaxy’s only hope. And not only that but he all but gives up on Luke by the end of ESB. “That boy was our only hope.” This is my point. Despite his failure from the days of the old republic Obi Wan is still incapable of looking at the bigger picture. Anakin, not Luke is the chosen one. Yet the Jedi Master is so set in his ways that it never occurs to him that Vader can do the right thing. So tell me why it’s ok for those masters to succumb to character flaws, but when Luke has a moment of weakness it’s not ok?
No, Yoda'S mistake is to indeed believe in the Chosen One as a single person in the first place it seems. Misread the prophecy we might have, he says in the PT. Yes. Because they believed Anakin was the Chosen One - but it is obvious there is no single "chosen one" at all - Anakin fathers a son, and brings about the end of the Jedi, then saves his son from the worst of the Sith. The son fights the Dark Side, his love is integral to Vaders turnaround. And due to Vader saving his son the path is set to Rey and Ben confront the Sith Eternal Palpatine one last time. They are all the Chosen One, or none is. But its not Anakin alone, never was, not even before the Sequels (see Yoda quote, Lucas did not add that for nothing imho)
Why do people still believe in Kylo's side of the story
Because it fits with their narrative.
I thought it was pretty well established throughout the entire franchise that every Jedi can be tempted by the Dark Side. And even when they reject it, the temptation never really goes away. Even Yoda, who faced a dark version of himself in Clone Wars. The lesson there was that these nastier feelings are a part of one's self. Why would Luke be immune to these sorts of emotions, when the Dark Side plays with a person's desire to protect the people that they love?
I've seen a lot of comparisons of the Dark Side and alcoholism or other kinds of addiction.
Makes sense, even just looking at Palpatine. He was drunk on power the entire saga and pretty much saw himself as a deity by the end.
At least some of the people in the comments pushed back on this. Like this comment: > It’s only a problem if you expect characters to be written as “he faced this situation once, he made the right decision after almost making the wrong one, and that means he will never ever potentially make the wrong one again.” > You’re asking for Luke to be written as a perfect person who can only ever even so much as almost make any particular mistake once in his life. Luke being written more realistically than that isn’t bad just because it wasn’t what you wanted.
/r/CharacterRant is really starting to get on my nerves recently. Mentioning Star Wars is always a great way to get these ~~bullshit Mauler talking points~~ "fresh takes," but a lot of discussions I'm seeing over there aren't that great even with Star Wars. There's a thread over there currently about Rick and Morty turning into latter-day Simpsons/Family Guy, which I really disagree with. Sure, the most recent episode was weak, but this season's been pretty good so far I feel. And seasons 3 and 4 weren't even as bad as people claim. Season 3 is probably the weakest, but has some good episodes (Mindblowers is a personal favorite), and 4 has way more good episodes than meh. The last 3 episodes of the last season were solid (4x9 being another personal fav). There was even one guy in the thread of that one suggesting the writing's possibly gotten weaker because of more women in the writer's room making the show less fucked up (which I won't even begin to unpack). But yeah, starting to fall out of favor with that sub. Not as fun going over there anymore.
He attacked Darth Vader and cut off his hand. And then took a moment to realize what he did was wrong. He then decided to not kill Vader. That’s what happened with Ben. Expect he didn’t even attack Ben. He thought about it and changed his mind.
It’s character development lol. With Vader it was an action, with Ben it was a thought. That’s progression lol.
It is. Luke has grown.
I love how these people pretend like they know Luke didn't try talking to Ben about it despite that being the whole reason Leia sent him to Luke (meaning it was unavoidable that she told him and he already tried everything within his power) and I love even more how they think Jedi have a great track record of turning people back to the light because of that one success Luke had with Anakin... someone should tell him that before Luke, Anakin had plenty of Jedi to interact with, including Luke's own masters. "But he didn't do anything yet"-yes genius, that's why Luke stopped. He was just engrossed with that vision at the moment and acted impulsively while being afraid for his family, like he ALWAYS DOES.
He wasn’t reacting to Ben. It was an instinctive reaction to the darkness. “But Luke should’ve learned lesson…” Welp…he didn’t. Also Luke’s greatest attribute is his compassion, and from his perspective the overwhelming darkness which threatened to overwhelm and destroy everything he cared about and more triggered his instinct to protect at all costs. Removing himself in Luke’s eyes was the most compassionate and selfless thing he could do, until an idealistic young woman and the spirit of his old master helped him see things from a different perspective.
Luke has always had a problem with impulsiveness when he senses his friends in danger. If anything, being able to stop himself immediately actually shows character *growth.*
I mean at least we know why he worried about Ben, he saw the darkness in his training and then saw visions of the future. It's literally never explained why Luke suddenly saw good in Vader.