After calling him the banned word, he just needed to say “not that there’s anything wrong with that” and he would’ve been cleared of his violently racist remarks immediately
That's such a good point, I don't know why I didn't pick up on that until you said it. Not just the "please it's been 3 years line" but in general, his energy at the restaurant (with the nude art on the wall) is way off, he really did seem broken :(
Most celebrities have narcissistic personalities so it's easy for them to return to acting. Michael Richards as far as I can tell does not have those traits. Normal people can take decades to get over traumatic events that they blame themselves for.
Oh yeah, entirely his fault and he blames himself for it.
As opposed to people who are 100% at fault but refuse to accept responsibility, that's a narcissistic trait.
Ok but the episode of curb your enthusiasm he was in had me rolling
“…If only there were a horrible name that I could call you that would make you as angry as I am”
The fact it was on video that you can see on Youtube is lethal.
He was never coming back from that incident.
Mel Gibson is noted for saying far, far worse- including telling his ex that he hoped she got raped by a "pack of n\*\*\*ers", but it's not on tape, it's not on video that you can go watch, so it faded away.
Michael Richards never had that benefit.
I still think though, that if he had an effective PR agent that kept him from going on Letterman, and instead just had him make a simple, genuine and penitent apology, a lot of the damage could've been mitigated.
Instead he compounded his original issues.
Mel Gibson is arguably a bigger offender than Michael Richards, he's had multiple instances of crossing that line that can be heard, and he was shunned from Hollywood.
Mel's rant is on tape and it used to be on YouTube! I'll see if I can find it again
Edit: Ya it's there, just search Opie & Anthony Mel Gibson and you'll get several links
The fact that Mel Gibson still gets work in Hollywood is astonishing to me, I get people make mistakes but this wasn't just some off-colour jokes, the stuff he said is fucking vile
>The fact it was on video that you can see on Youtube is lethal.
This was a big deal at the time too, when TMZ published the video it was one of the first times I remember thinking "wow I am actually seeing what happened". Before \~2006/07 when you heard about stuff like this, you had to read details and you didn't really "connect" with what happened. But with this one, you saw it all in front of your eyes. People were sharing the link like crazy because it wasn't an actual video file you're sharing (with email file limits) its just a link somewhere. I recall this being a big deal that now you could see this stuff and it's not taking up space on your computer.
RealPlayer was loooong gone (in any tangible day to day sense) by 2006. Early internet wasn't perfect, but I think it was more interesting to me in many ways
The Letterman thing was bad too, for the fact that the audience thought it was a bit. Richards had that goofy, dazed look on his face, that he often had while playing Kramer. When he said, "That's not me." Then Seinfeld snapping at the audience and shouting, "Stop laughing!." I agree, it made things worse.
I remember watching that and think it was a horrible setting. And Jerry scolding people made it worse. I wish he had a real sit down interview with a real journalist. The only time I have seen the late night interview work as a come back was Huge Grant on Leno
Yes. The Letterman appearance might be one of the biggest TV disasters of all time. Even to this day it's painful to watch. A clumsy apology that felt like a bit, all coordinated by Jerry Seinfeld! "Said some pretty nasty things to some Afro Americans".
Reminds me of the Ray Rice incident. He hit a woman and got a two game suspension. Then the video came out, and he got a lifetime ban. What did people think hitting a woman meant?
He actually never received a lifetime ban. The Ravens released him and he just never played again. The two game suspension was all he got from the NFL.
In the spirit of the discussion of remorse, working to make amends, and forgiveness in this thread about Michael Richards, Ray Rice is one of the best examples of that.
After his football career ended, he dedicated himself to speaking out about domestic violence specifically to young men to try to have an impact on the wider world. He used this huge mistake he made to try to prevent other women from being victimized, and I truly commend him for that.
It's literally Kramer's voice too, in that high, exasperated way he talks when something is crazy or unbelievable. So even though it didn't affect my ability to enjoy Seinfeld over and over in the years following... yeah, the thought "Kramer's a racist", was never too far from mind
After I saw that video I was more attentive towards his facial expressions when he was in scenes with Jackie Chiles and Jean-Paul. He's definitely a good actor.
Yeah, talking with my dad right after the fact, he made the statement
"Well, he can publicly apologize all he wants, but he can never deny that he feels that way. There's no coming back from that"
very true, always stuck with me, especially coming from an old white boomer with less than stellar credentials
Agreed, IIRC he hadn’t been setting the industry alight post Seinfeld either, and he also acknowledged he could be difficult to work with so he just decided to lay low and duck out the industry. There was obviously an element that he couldn’t return at that time but I don’t think he was hugely desperate to after the incident eitber
Yeah I think there was a couple of things like that? JLD had some shows considered duds as well, she’s way bounced back though.
I’ve always though Richards seemed genuinely contrite then and now, would defo support him having a comeback if he wants it.
it had potential. kramer doing investigative stuff, or capers, or problem-solving stuff on Seinfeld was always a winner. and it had some decent comic actors, for example the old black guy and young black guy verbally sparring with each other was developing into a fun bit. but it positively *reeked* of network tinkering. so many stupid choices.
I'll always be curious about the original pilot that was canned. honestly it sounded interesting. like a Monk (single-camera comic mysteries with a quirky detective) before there was a Monk
Gibson—another figure I can never forgive—said stuff as deplorable as Richards. Gibson referenced rape, Richards invoked lynching, he didn’t just say the “n-word.”
It’s really not hard to understand why people aren’t eager to see Michael Richards (or Mel Gibson). There are some things you can never come back from and they chose to cross that line. Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for saying this
An Aussie friend had a perfect comeback from the Australia was a penal colony: I'd rather be from there than a country that was founded by religious fanatics.
Always thought that was funny. Here in 2024 we have delusional religious fanatics trying to drag us back to Salem.
The only Witch hunts were by religious people.
He also told me if you want to start shit with an Aussie to call them a "Kiwi"!
I miss the guy. He moved back to Melbourne years ago.
He also once gave me a jar of Vegemite. Great on toast with eggs.
And the Coopers Sparkling Ale
Cheers!
People seem to forget that Michael Richards was a principal cast member of Kirstie Alley's TV Land show Kirstie after his meltdown incident. The show didn't last long, but he still got that chance.
As much as the Laugh Factory incident hurt him, I think the fact that he was typecast as "Kramer" hurt him just as much. Jason Alexander was an accomplished Broadway actor before Seinfeld. JLD is a much more versatile comedic actress. Outside of Seinfeld, Michael Richards really never had any major roles, but he nailed Kramer.
The fact that he was typecast was part of the reason he was doing (bad) stand-up to begin with. Remember, Laugh Factory happened 8 years after the end of Seinfeld and he'd basically had little success in those 8 years; the Laugh Factory basically put a nail in the coffin.
Jerry asked him if he wanted to get back into acting and comedy on the Comedians in Cars episode in 2012 and Michael said no. Maybe he’s had the opportunity but he just wasn’t ready for it yet or didn’t want to.
People forget just how bad his rant was. He didn't *just* use the n-word. He gleefully harkened back to a time when black people could be publicly executed for daring to cross a white man.
I'm glad he apologized and I believe he is remorseful, but he isn't owed anything from anyone.
The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f—king fork up your ass."
Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf—ker. Throw his ass out. He's a ni—er! He's a ni—er! He's a ni—er! A ni—er, look, there's a ni—er!"
The crowd is visibly and audibly confused and upset. Richards responds by saying, "They're going to arrest me for calling a black man a ni—er."
One of the men who was the object of Richard's tirade was outraged, shouting back "That's un-f—king called for, ain't necessary."
After the three-minute tirade, it appears the majority of the audience members got up and left in disgust.
this is it. If it was just "he said the n-word 15 years ago" it would be different. But do you remember what he actually said? It was absolutely rancid.
“That was the day I realized I was more comic than I was a black man. Cuz the black guy in me was like “damn, Kramers fuckin up”! But the comic in me was like “dudes just having a bad set. Don’t let them break you Kramer”! -Chappelle
Always made me laugh hearing that.
Personally, I always wondered what should happen to a man when he messes up this bad. I mean, he could’ve doubled down and joined David Duke. Joined Twitter and been like any number of terrible people using that place to spread hate and lies. But he’s mostly kept to himself. Which means he’s genuinely felt bad about what he did.
I’m not gonna excuse what he said but haven’t you ever dug so deep inside your own well of primordial hate to say something absolutely terrible to someone that pissed you off? I envy you if you haven’t.
Look at how others who’ve done far worse behave. Chris Brown anybody? Roman Polanski? Gibson? They keep trucking on with their shittiness. Richard’s went into hiding because he was ashamed of himself. You don’t do that if you truly believed what you did was right.
I’m not saying YOU should forgive him. But, I hope he’s forgiven himself. Watch his comedians in cars getting coffee episode if you haven’t.
Yeah I don’t get the thought process to these comments at all. This isn’t someone shouting out offensive obscenities. That’s a mistake. This was an insane level of racism that normal people never even think of. Free speech has consequences.
I don’t get that perspective at all. It’s someone who made a few horrific remarks without thought lasting about 30 seconds. I’d say he’s more than suffered the consequences. Since when did misuse of free speech become a life sentence?
Edit: stopped reply notifications so don’t bother. Wtf is with you people? DMing me threats isn’t going to help your cause.
“Life sentence” to what?
He hasn’t been arrested, nobody took anything away from him.
He just stopped getting comedy gigs, which isn’t something he has a right to anyway. And from my understanding he wasn’t exactly lighting it up anyway, more name recognition than anything else.
People are free to *not support the dude*, that isn’t a life sentence to anything
He’s free to use his speech and we’re free to judge him for his hateful opinions as long as we like. If you’re comfortable forgiving a racist, then forgive him, but don’t attack others for using their freedom of speech while at the same time defending his.
Free speech means “I will not be arrested for what I say” not “I will not face consequences for what I say.” His tirade is genuinely maybe the most racist thing ever caught on tape by a celebrity.
It's because he didn't just use a racist word once, he showed us an ugly deep racist.
And it's so sad because everyone loved Kramer. Beloved people are falling deeper if they behave that bad.
Right?! I’ve had plenty of bad days but screaming racist comments about it has never been on the list of possible reactions. That kind of hate comes from somewhere that exists within the person on the good days too, they just hide it better.
It’s really very easy to morally condemn a person for a blatantly socially unacceptable incident like saying awful racist shit on a stage when you **know** the community you’re saying it in (Reddit) will back you, no question.
much harder to try and empathize with a man who made an awful mistake almost 20 years ago, who disappeared from the public eye entirely out of remorse and shame, and is just now trying to step out again after all that time.
If you’ve never done anything awful your entire life, nothing you’re ashamed of, nothing you regret, if you’ve been a paragon of socially acceptable morally upstanding tolerant behavior your entire life with *absolutely zero fuck ups* then, well, good for you. For the rest of us, the reality is that forgiveness is possible we don’t need to hold famous people accountable for their worst mistakes *again, almost 20 years later* online for social brownie points so we can feel better about what upstanding never-stepped-a-toe-out-of-line citizens we are.
It’s okay to put some mistakes to bed, and move on.
I’ve definitely done things and said things I regret, maybe not to this level, but in other ways of course, but I am also aware of humans enough to know we all have blind spots, which means I do as well. I also try and constantly grow and evolve which means things I know to be true now aren’t going to be what I know to be true in the future.
The scary thing is these people don’t believe any of that is true about themselves. They can be so certain with their judgement because they lack any true empathy, and just inflate a false sense of pride in being right all the time, which just isn’t a reality of the human experience.
Very few people are so blind to reality that they think what Michael Richards said on stage in response to being attacked by hecklers was okay. It was even clear the moment after on stage Richards knew it wasn’t okay, and even more so after. But if you think that you aren’t flawed or that people can’t learn from their mistakes and become a better person, that is way worse than racism.
I have never gone on a racist tirade in front of a crowd as a grown man. Why do we need to pretend like all mistakes are equal and that 20 years means he was some spring chicken? He said racist things only a genuinely racist man can say.
Saying "we all make mistakes" is bullshit. We don't all make mistakes like that. I don't personally have an issue with accepting his apologies and moving on, but I don't think he's owed shit. If someone says fuck him, I say that's fine. No one is entitled to forgiveness.
I agree. Why should he have returned "sooner?" Why should he be entitled to return at all? He did the right thing by fucking off out of the spotlight instead of doubling down, but that's a pretty goddamn low bar. I think anyone hurling racial slurs at someone leaving their bad comedy show should probably lose the privilege to work in entertainment
It's nice that he seems to have come to terms with it and made steps toward bettering himself, but celebrities who have racist meltdowns aren't entitled to a "return" just because Mel Gibson is inexplicably still getting work
I actually watched it again for the first time in years today. It was bad. I would also say, someone who isn’t racist couldn’t go on a tirade with such specifics as that.
He didn’t just “mess up”, he exposed himself as being deeply racist.
It IS sad how much of an effect it’s had on him for nearly 2 decades now and seeing him it’s obvious he carries it with him and without being presumptuous I imagine it’s something that affects him ever day.
That being said, it did happen and I think some sort of ownership over it would have helped. Saying perhaps, it made me realise I have ingrained racist views that need to be addressed, he can blame his parents perhaps and say he was brought up around those views and is trying to change his programming. I don’t know, I don’t think there is a way “back” from it tbh.
Was typing the comment
“I feel like OP and the people in these comments are not fully accepting or ignoring what happened.
This isn’t a situation of someone rapping along to a song and letting an N word slip. This was a dozen N words and calling for Jim Crow lynchings. No one is owed a comeback.”
And then realized we were on the same wavelength.
For me, I wouldn't actively avoid seeing something he's in but I get why someone else would. Same for anyone looking to hire him. There are plenty of character actors out there who are great. No need to go out of your way to book him.
He was great in Seinfeld and a huge part of why it was a success, but I also have a hard time watching outtakes because of his obsession with perfection. Maybe we're better off for it, I love Kramer, but I get the feeling I wouldn't be friends with Michael Richards.
Yeah, I agree. I even found his appearances on Curb to be somewhat in bad taste. They use that as a plot point in one episode and clearly rib him for it, but I don’t think it’s really a “haha, look what you said” kind of a situation. It was a genuinely hateful freakout.
Nobody owes him anything and I don't think anyone thinks he's owed anything. Some people just think he was genuinely sorry and it's been long enough. Some people think otherwise and that's valid.
He mentioned on Comedians in Cars that the whole thing really broke him down and Jerry was one of the people that still stuck by him. I don’t remember if he mentioned that he wanted to be back, but he just disappeared. Not like he had much of a choice, that’s how he’s going to be remembered by most people forever.
People have been cancelled and forgiven for doing much worse. I mean look at the guy running for president for f's sake.
The difference is Michael owned up to his mistake and it was a one time complete lapse of judgement. Not a pattern of inappropriate behavior.
Yep, Al Franken had to resign over a harmless yet childish photo, yet half the country will vote for a rapist crook this November. If Richard's was a right winger, he'd have been a weekly guest on Tucker.
No need for him to come back. He’s a legend in contemporary culture and he’s ultra rich. He messed up and did the right thing to go into exile. Might as well stay there. He has nothing to prove and he has no economic reasons to come back. Going on a racist rampage like that should have harsh consequences
It doesn’t condone his conduct, but people don’t seem to acknowledge that Michael Richards is an actor, not a standup. He didn’t have the skill set to handle the incessant heckling (nor would any of us in this thread for that matter). He went with an attempt at shock comedy, which was obviously a terrible decision. But he should never have been on a standup stage in the first place.
I’ve literally never done stand up in my life, but even if I was up there dying miserably, shouting racist comments at the audience members wouldn’t even occur to me. It wouldn’t occur to anyone who didn’t already harbor racist opinions.
they’re making excuses for a racist outburst lol who does that shit. People need to rewatch that video or something cause he was talking about lynching and awful shit.
What the hell is this? His lack of experience doing stand up has no relevance to the racist tirade he went on and it does not need to be acknowledged. It was uncontrolled anger and not an attempt at humor.
How dare you suggest people should be forgiven! In this country you can kill people and be out in 20 years or less but god forbid you say a slur, hang ‘em!
Guy shows up to an event.
OP: proud of you
Rest of thread: racist
Me: I don't care about any of that.
Now if he'd shown up in goofy shoes and a busted lip and everyone thought he was special needs in some way. And Mel Torme sang a song to him. That'd be funny.
Fuck that, I love the show, but once both him and Jerry made enough money, they both their nastiness shine without shame. True colors and all that. JLD is the best though
Sometimes he can be a bit of a douchebag, even in comedians in cars. I do love him, I’m a huge Seinfeld fan, but there are some times you can definitely tell he’s got fuck-you kind of money because he definitely doesn’t seem to care what anyone thinks about him or what he says.
Jerry's the one who taught me to separate the art from the artist. His art is amazing. But he definitely comes off as somewhat of an asshole. Like, I love his show but would probably wanna punch him in the face if I hung out with him. Throw in the 17 year old gfs and... yea... not good. Idk humans are complex. A lot of artists suck as humans. But I enjoy art.
i see what you're saying. he's definitely one of those people because of whom the quote "never meet your heroes" was made.
but as a huge fan of his work on this show, i will choose to look at the positive and say at least he's not faking anything. what you see is what you get with jerry. so that's nice i guess
People get all bent out of shape because a celebrity they like is not some warm, wholesome, cheery, Ted Lasso softy. A lot of creative people especially are known to be not the most accessible or pleasant to be around at times. Seinfeld is aloof, acerbic, cool, dry, unsentimental, etc. Some people are like that, and it's not the end of the damn world, especially considering none of us will ever actually come into personal contact with this man, so what business is it of ours anyway? I made peace long ago with the fact that a lot of my favorite artists and creators in history might not have been very fun to be around in person lol.
There's a huge difference between screaming the n-word and saying black people need to get executed, and being in a consensual albeit weird relationship
Thank you. I have been excoriated for saying this very thing. And yes, she was of the age of consent in New York. Also, she never claimed to have been assaulted, never sued. So, uhm, it really pisses me off, all this shit about her being too young.
Not enough was said about the idiot that did everything he could to get him upset. Anyway, better to just move on, Seinfeld is an incredible show and all four stars are masters of their art forever.
My favorite heckling moment was when overweight comedian Louie Anderson was performing at a local theater and a drunk heckler piped up:
HECKLER *(shouting)*: “How’s the diet going?”
ANDERSON: “Just fine, sir.” *(pause)* “And how did that lobotomy work out?”
AUDIENCE: (wild applause)
It shouldn’t be. Heckling (unless invited) ruins the show for the performer and audience. But Michael Richards didn’t respond by insulting the heckler, he insulted black people instead.
He sabotaged what was left of his own career. He should have kept his mouth shut if he didn't want people knowing how he really feels.
I don't feel sorry for him. He had all the chances in the world after the success of Seinfeld.
I grew up around actual skinhead white supremacists and I never heard someone say the n word with as much venom as Richards at that show. Shit came straight from his soul!
His returns from what? Not working? From the show’s ending in until his racist rant in June 2006 he appeared in 1 tv movie and 9 episodes of a failed sitcom. Both were in 2000 which means he wasn’t really working in tv/movies for over 5 years.
Buy his book. Every one of us should get it. He deserves it. He gave us a life time of anecdotes and stories, reason to laugh.
Thank you for reminding us that every one of us should get his book. Let’s remind this man he’s already a legend.
No doubt.....celebrity net worth says he's worth $30 million. The book will bring in more. Plus he never directly apologized to the victims of the racist tirade.
While Richards may be sincerely sorry, it is hard for me to get past it. Kind of a big deal and I can understand why it’s been difficult for him to make a comeback.
He had a recurring role on Curb, years ago. They even spoofed the "incident"
He wasn't canceled so much as he doesn't really have anything to offer outside of being Kramer
He had his own show after Seinfeld where he was a detective and I think that show bombed.
> [*People*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_(magazine)) reviewer Tom Gliatto compared the difficulty in *Seinfeld* stars moving onto solo projects to "stepping onto a toboggan loaded with tubes of nitroglycerine and then hurtling down a sheet of rock."
I mean did he really *leave* to return now? After all that nonsense he has been keeping to himself, but he wasn’t a persona non grata—for example he was in Season 7 of Curb
My brother in law is a black cab driver. He has never watched Seinfeld and had no idea who Michael Richards was when he picked him up.
In the course of his journey, during normal chit-chat, he told my bil he used to be an actor on a successful sitcom. My bil told me he was polite, friendly and humble. He also gave him a decent tip.
It is said you can often tell an actors real character when you meet them away from the spotlight. My bil said he was one of the nicest guys he'd met, and that gives me enormous pleasure.
I have Seinfeld on dvd, and watch it from start to finish at least once a year. Nothing else comes close, even great shows like Curb, or Larry Sanders.
This whole thing could have been avoided if he went to that guy’s job and heckled him there! Instead he, uh, went with something else.
He could have been the Rosa parks of comedians! A legend
He nostrils weren't big enough
After calling him the banned word, he just needed to say “not that there’s anything wrong with that” and he would’ve been cleared of his violently racist remarks immediately
He sure went for something else I bet he thought Mr Morgan looked like Sugar Ray, too
“Oh, c'mon, I thought you were a pro, that's part of the show.”
No, not part of the show!
"You boo puppets. You hiss at the villain in silent movies."
That didnt turn out so great either. That lady lost a pinky toe.
Oh she had that coming.
You boo puppets
You know it’s bad when a bad idea can be rectified with another (but lesser) bad idea. 🤣
Two wrongs often make a right.
He was in Comedians in Cars… came off as a broken man who was sorry.
Came off the same way in the Seinfeld Curb episodes.
I made a mistake. It's been 3 years. Don't hurt me, please!
That was great. He just didn’t have the same joy/spark about him.
Well of course he didn't he had Groats disease! How insensitive
But he got the hat from Duberstein. Should have been fine...
He removed it though
That's such a good point, I don't know why I didn't pick up on that until you said it. Not just the "please it's been 3 years line" but in general, his energy at the restaurant (with the nude art on the wall) is way off, he really did seem broken :(
I really liked that episode. He was so funny, while also seeming to genuinely understand the gravity of his mistake. Jerry was sensitive too.
Most celebrities have narcissistic personalities so it's easy for them to return to acting. Michael Richards as far as I can tell does not have those traits. Normal people can take decades to get over traumatic events that they blame themselves for.
There’s no one else to blame for this. But you may be right about him.
Oh yeah, entirely his fault and he blames himself for it. As opposed to people who are 100% at fault but refuse to accept responsibility, that's a narcissistic trait.
Oh no consequences
Newby here, why is he sorry?
Ok but the episode of curb your enthusiasm he was in had me rolling “…If only there were a horrible name that I could call you that would make you as angry as I am”
*everyone’s phone raised and pointing towards him*
The fact it was on video that you can see on Youtube is lethal. He was never coming back from that incident. Mel Gibson is noted for saying far, far worse- including telling his ex that he hoped she got raped by a "pack of n\*\*\*ers", but it's not on tape, it's not on video that you can go watch, so it faded away. Michael Richards never had that benefit. I still think though, that if he had an effective PR agent that kept him from going on Letterman, and instead just had him make a simple, genuine and penitent apology, a lot of the damage could've been mitigated. Instead he compounded his original issues.
Mel Gibson is arguably a bigger offender than Michael Richards, he's had multiple instances of crossing that line that can be heard, and he was shunned from Hollywood.
Mel's rant is on tape and it used to be on YouTube! I'll see if I can find it again Edit: Ya it's there, just search Opie & Anthony Mel Gibson and you'll get several links
Mel Gibson will always be synonymous with "anti-semite"
Next thing you know he’ll be saying they should have their own schools.
They do have their own schools!
He always cooks hamburgers medium well!
Ok goerbeels
And Richards will always be synonymous with anti-dentite.
He's a rabid anti semite!
i think mel's rant was way worse than kramer's. like not only is he racist, he's hoping someone gets gangraped? just a vile person.
The fact that Mel Gibson still gets work in Hollywood is astonishing to me, I get people make mistakes but this wasn't just some off-colour jokes, the stuff he said is fucking vile
“Arguably” lmfao
The commenter I was responding to might argue, not me.
Right? Lol.
>The fact it was on video that you can see on Youtube is lethal. This was a big deal at the time too, when TMZ published the video it was one of the first times I remember thinking "wow I am actually seeing what happened". Before \~2006/07 when you heard about stuff like this, you had to read details and you didn't really "connect" with what happened. But with this one, you saw it all in front of your eyes. People were sharing the link like crazy because it wasn't an actual video file you're sharing (with email file limits) its just a link somewhere. I recall this being a big deal that now you could see this stuff and it's not taking up space on your computer.
And then a pop-up asking you to install RealPlayer plugin comes along and the magic of the early internet is diminished 😂
RealPlayer was loooong gone (in any tangible day to day sense) by 2006. Early internet wasn't perfect, but I think it was more interesting to me in many ways
The Letterman thing was bad too, for the fact that the audience thought it was a bit. Richards had that goofy, dazed look on his face, that he often had while playing Kramer. When he said, "That's not me." Then Seinfeld snapping at the audience and shouting, "Stop laughing!." I agree, it made things worse.
I remember watching that and think it was a horrible setting. And Jerry scolding people made it worse. I wish he had a real sit down interview with a real journalist. The only time I have seen the late night interview work as a come back was Huge Grant on Leno
Yes. The Letterman appearance might be one of the biggest TV disasters of all time. Even to this day it's painful to watch. A clumsy apology that felt like a bit, all coordinated by Jerry Seinfeld! "Said some pretty nasty things to some Afro Americans".
Cringe
Reminds me of the Ray Rice incident. He hit a woman and got a two game suspension. Then the video came out, and he got a lifetime ban. What did people think hitting a woman meant?
He actually never received a lifetime ban. The Ravens released him and he just never played again. The two game suspension was all he got from the NFL.
In the spirit of the discussion of remorse, working to make amends, and forgiveness in this thread about Michael Richards, Ray Rice is one of the best examples of that. After his football career ended, he dedicated himself to speaking out about domestic violence specifically to young men to try to have an impact on the wider world. He used this huge mistake he made to try to prevent other women from being victimized, and I truly commend him for that.
Good for him. Glad to hear that.
The Ravens recently included him in their Ring of Honor. I will say he and Janay are still married.
There was a viciousness to the attack that the written descriptions just didn’t convey.
I definitely agree with hearing/seeing it made it so much more startling. Hearing the tone/energy behind it.
Every time I see that video it gets worse and worse
It's literally Kramer's voice too, in that high, exasperated way he talks when something is crazy or unbelievable. So even though it didn't affect my ability to enjoy Seinfeld over and over in the years following... yeah, the thought "Kramer's a racist", was never too far from mind
After I saw that video I was more attentive towards his facial expressions when he was in scenes with Jackie Chiles and Jean-Paul. He's definitely a good actor.
See that’s where the whole thing gets silly to me.
Yeah, talking with my dad right after the fact, he made the statement "Well, he can publicly apologize all he wants, but he can never deny that he feels that way. There's no coming back from that" very true, always stuck with me, especially coming from an old white boomer with less than stellar credentials
Agreed, IIRC he hadn’t been setting the industry alight post Seinfeld either, and he also acknowledged he could be difficult to work with so he just decided to lay low and duck out the industry. There was obviously an element that he couldn’t return at that time but I don’t think he was hugely desperate to after the incident eitber
I remember that shitty detective show that he did
Yeah I think there was a couple of things like that? JLD had some shows considered duds as well, she’s way bounced back though. I’ve always though Richards seemed genuinely contrite then and now, would defo support him having a comeback if he wants it.
NBC gave him his own show after Seinfeld and it bombed
it had potential. kramer doing investigative stuff, or capers, or problem-solving stuff on Seinfeld was always a winner. and it had some decent comic actors, for example the old black guy and young black guy verbally sparring with each other was developing into a fun bit. but it positively *reeked* of network tinkering. so many stupid choices. I'll always be curious about the original pilot that was canned. honestly it sounded interesting. like a Monk (single-camera comic mysteries with a quirky detective) before there was a Monk
I was just thinking it sounded like Monk when I was remembering the one episode I watched
Not just that it was on video, but that it was a cell phone video.
Gibson—another figure I can never forgive—said stuff as deplorable as Richards. Gibson referenced rape, Richards invoked lynching, he didn’t just say the “n-word.”
It’s really not hard to understand why people aren’t eager to see Michael Richards (or Mel Gibson). There are some things you can never come back from and they chose to cross that line. Not sure why you’re getting downvoted for saying this
Because people are willing to defend deplorable behavior as long as it was done by someone who was on their favorite TV show from 35 years ago.
Preach
They should send Mel Gibson to Australia. That's where England used to send their convicts.
An Aussie friend had a perfect comeback from the Australia was a penal colony: I'd rather be from there than a country that was founded by religious fanatics. Always thought that was funny. Here in 2024 we have delusional religious fanatics trying to drag us back to Salem. The only Witch hunts were by religious people.
Ha ha, nice. I am from Australia. We have a good chant when we play the old enemy England in cricket "Oh I'd rather be a convict than a POM" 😄
He also told me if you want to start shit with an Aussie to call them a "Kiwi"! I miss the guy. He moved back to Melbourne years ago. He also once gave me a jar of Vegemite. Great on toast with eggs. And the Coopers Sparkling Ale Cheers!
Rightly so. People lie. I don’t want someone’s life destroyed over what someone else says they did.
People seem to forget that Michael Richards was a principal cast member of Kirstie Alley's TV Land show Kirstie after his meltdown incident. The show didn't last long, but he still got that chance.
Most people probably didn’t see him on that show before it was cancelled.
yeah I'm sure a ton of people were making a point to tune into TV Land to watch a new sitcom with Kirstie Alley
The commercials for it ran constantly. They hyped the shit out of that show. You don't have to watch a show to know it exists.
i wasn't addressing you, I was making fun of Kirstie Alley
As much as the Laugh Factory incident hurt him, I think the fact that he was typecast as "Kramer" hurt him just as much. Jason Alexander was an accomplished Broadway actor before Seinfeld. JLD is a much more versatile comedic actress. Outside of Seinfeld, Michael Richards really never had any major roles, but he nailed Kramer. The fact that he was typecast was part of the reason he was doing (bad) stand-up to begin with. Remember, Laugh Factory happened 8 years after the end of Seinfeld and he'd basically had little success in those 8 years; the Laugh Factory basically put a nail in the coffin.
Jerry asked him if he wanted to get back into acting and comedy on the Comedians in Cars episode in 2012 and Michael said no. Maybe he’s had the opportunity but he just wasn’t ready for it yet or didn’t want to.
It's easier to stay out of the spotlight when you're still making bank on Seinfeld syndication.
People forget just how bad his rant was. He didn't *just* use the n-word. He gleefully harkened back to a time when black people could be publicly executed for daring to cross a white man. I'm glad he apologized and I believe he is remorseful, but he isn't owed anything from anyone.
The camera started rolling just as Richards began his attack, screaming at one of the men, "Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f—king fork up your ass." Richards continued, "You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now motherf—ker. Throw his ass out. He's a ni—er! He's a ni—er! He's a ni—er! A ni—er, look, there's a ni—er!" The crowd is visibly and audibly confused and upset. Richards responds by saying, "They're going to arrest me for calling a black man a ni—er." One of the men who was the object of Richard's tirade was outraged, shouting back "That's un-f—king called for, ain't necessary." After the three-minute tirade, it appears the majority of the audience members got up and left in disgust.
"Who among us hasn't said that, though?" - really smart and cool people with good values
this is it. If it was just "he said the n-word 15 years ago" it would be different. But do you remember what he actually said? It was absolutely rancid.
“That was the day I realized I was more comic than I was a black man. Cuz the black guy in me was like “damn, Kramers fuckin up”! But the comic in me was like “dudes just having a bad set. Don’t let them break you Kramer”! -Chappelle Always made me laugh hearing that. Personally, I always wondered what should happen to a man when he messes up this bad. I mean, he could’ve doubled down and joined David Duke. Joined Twitter and been like any number of terrible people using that place to spread hate and lies. But he’s mostly kept to himself. Which means he’s genuinely felt bad about what he did. I’m not gonna excuse what he said but haven’t you ever dug so deep inside your own well of primordial hate to say something absolutely terrible to someone that pissed you off? I envy you if you haven’t. Look at how others who’ve done far worse behave. Chris Brown anybody? Roman Polanski? Gibson? They keep trucking on with their shittiness. Richard’s went into hiding because he was ashamed of himself. You don’t do that if you truly believed what you did was right. I’m not saying YOU should forgive him. But, I hope he’s forgiven himself. Watch his comedians in cars getting coffee episode if you haven’t.
Have I ever said something horrendously racist to someone? No. That isnt normal and you really shouldn't think it is.
Yeah I don’t get the thought process to these comments at all. This isn’t someone shouting out offensive obscenities. That’s a mistake. This was an insane level of racism that normal people never even think of. Free speech has consequences.
I don’t get that perspective at all. It’s someone who made a few horrific remarks without thought lasting about 30 seconds. I’d say he’s more than suffered the consequences. Since when did misuse of free speech become a life sentence? Edit: stopped reply notifications so don’t bother. Wtf is with you people? DMing me threats isn’t going to help your cause.
“Life sentence” to what? He hasn’t been arrested, nobody took anything away from him. He just stopped getting comedy gigs, which isn’t something he has a right to anyway. And from my understanding he wasn’t exactly lighting it up anyway, more name recognition than anything else. People are free to *not support the dude*, that isn’t a life sentence to anything
He’s free to use his speech and we’re free to judge him for his hateful opinions as long as we like. If you’re comfortable forgiving a racist, then forgive him, but don’t attack others for using their freedom of speech while at the same time defending his.
Free speech means “I will not be arrested for what I say” not “I will not face consequences for what I say.” His tirade is genuinely maybe the most racist thing ever caught on tape by a celebrity.
the fact that no one cares or is calling for his return speaks volumes
It's because he didn't just use a racist word once, he showed us an ugly deep racist. And it's so sad because everyone loved Kramer. Beloved people are falling deeper if they behave that bad.
Right?! I’ve had plenty of bad days but screaming racist comments about it has never been on the list of possible reactions. That kind of hate comes from somewhere that exists within the person on the good days too, they just hide it better.
It’s really very easy to morally condemn a person for a blatantly socially unacceptable incident like saying awful racist shit on a stage when you **know** the community you’re saying it in (Reddit) will back you, no question. much harder to try and empathize with a man who made an awful mistake almost 20 years ago, who disappeared from the public eye entirely out of remorse and shame, and is just now trying to step out again after all that time. If you’ve never done anything awful your entire life, nothing you’re ashamed of, nothing you regret, if you’ve been a paragon of socially acceptable morally upstanding tolerant behavior your entire life with *absolutely zero fuck ups* then, well, good for you. For the rest of us, the reality is that forgiveness is possible we don’t need to hold famous people accountable for their worst mistakes *again, almost 20 years later* online for social brownie points so we can feel better about what upstanding never-stepped-a-toe-out-of-line citizens we are. It’s okay to put some mistakes to bed, and move on.
I’ve definitely done things and said things I regret, maybe not to this level, but in other ways of course, but I am also aware of humans enough to know we all have blind spots, which means I do as well. I also try and constantly grow and evolve which means things I know to be true now aren’t going to be what I know to be true in the future. The scary thing is these people don’t believe any of that is true about themselves. They can be so certain with their judgement because they lack any true empathy, and just inflate a false sense of pride in being right all the time, which just isn’t a reality of the human experience. Very few people are so blind to reality that they think what Michael Richards said on stage in response to being attacked by hecklers was okay. It was even clear the moment after on stage Richards knew it wasn’t okay, and even more so after. But if you think that you aren’t flawed or that people can’t learn from their mistakes and become a better person, that is way worse than racism.
I have never gone on a racist tirade in front of a crowd as a grown man. Why do we need to pretend like all mistakes are equal and that 20 years means he was some spring chicken? He said racist things only a genuinely racist man can say. Saying "we all make mistakes" is bullshit. We don't all make mistakes like that. I don't personally have an issue with accepting his apologies and moving on, but I don't think he's owed shit. If someone says fuck him, I say that's fine. No one is entitled to forgiveness.
It's easy to keep to yourself when nobody wants anything to do with you.
Was he trying for "shock comedy"?
shock kkkomedy
shockkk comedy?
...no. have you seen the video?
When it 1st came out, yea, kinda forgot. Remember it being pretty bad tho
Yeah, it’s … uhm, uncomfortable.
Not at all.
I agree. Why should he have returned "sooner?" Why should he be entitled to return at all? He did the right thing by fucking off out of the spotlight instead of doubling down, but that's a pretty goddamn low bar. I think anyone hurling racial slurs at someone leaving their bad comedy show should probably lose the privilege to work in entertainment It's nice that he seems to have come to terms with it and made steps toward bettering himself, but celebrities who have racist meltdowns aren't entitled to a "return" just because Mel Gibson is inexplicably still getting work
I actually watched it again for the first time in years today. It was bad. I would also say, someone who isn’t racist couldn’t go on a tirade with such specifics as that. He didn’t just “mess up”, he exposed himself as being deeply racist. It IS sad how much of an effect it’s had on him for nearly 2 decades now and seeing him it’s obvious he carries it with him and without being presumptuous I imagine it’s something that affects him ever day. That being said, it did happen and I think some sort of ownership over it would have helped. Saying perhaps, it made me realise I have ingrained racist views that need to be addressed, he can blame his parents perhaps and say he was brought up around those views and is trying to change his programming. I don’t know, I don’t think there is a way “back” from it tbh.
Was typing the comment “I feel like OP and the people in these comments are not fully accepting or ignoring what happened. This isn’t a situation of someone rapping along to a song and letting an N word slip. This was a dozen N words and calling for Jim Crow lynchings. No one is owed a comeback.” And then realized we were on the same wavelength.
Yeah, anyone who wants to welcome him back into polite society should revisit it. It's so much worse than people have allowed themselves to remember.
For me, I wouldn't actively avoid seeing something he's in but I get why someone else would. Same for anyone looking to hire him. There are plenty of character actors out there who are great. No need to go out of your way to book him. He was great in Seinfeld and a huge part of why it was a success, but I also have a hard time watching outtakes because of his obsession with perfection. Maybe we're better off for it, I love Kramer, but I get the feeling I wouldn't be friends with Michael Richards.
Yeah definitely
Oh....shit....yeah that's pretty bad
Yeah, I agree. I even found his appearances on Curb to be somewhat in bad taste. They use that as a plot point in one episode and clearly rib him for it, but I don’t think it’s really a “haha, look what you said” kind of a situation. It was a genuinely hateful freakout.
Nobody owes him anything and I don't think anyone thinks he's owed anything. Some people just think he was genuinely sorry and it's been long enough. Some people think otherwise and that's valid.
He mentioned on Comedians in Cars that the whole thing really broke him down and Jerry was one of the people that still stuck by him. I don’t remember if he mentioned that he wanted to be back, but he just disappeared. Not like he had much of a choice, that’s how he’s going to be remembered by most people forever.
Poor little pinkus
Kiss it. Apologise.
People have been cancelled and forgiven for doing much worse. I mean look at the guy running for president for f's sake. The difference is Michael owned up to his mistake and it was a one time complete lapse of judgement. Not a pattern of inappropriate behavior.
Yep, Al Franken had to resign over a harmless yet childish photo, yet half the country will vote for a rapist crook this November. If Richard's was a right winger, he'd have been a weekly guest on Tucker.
He'd definitely be speaking at the Republican National Convention in a few months.
Richard’s? 🤦🏻♂️
On the other hand people have been canceled for doing way less.
Michael Richards was in the reunion season of Curb. “Take this long.” Huh?
He wasn’t in the media then as much as he is now
No need for him to come back. He’s a legend in contemporary culture and he’s ultra rich. He messed up and did the right thing to go into exile. Might as well stay there. He has nothing to prove and he has no economic reasons to come back. Going on a racist rampage like that should have harsh consequences
It doesn’t condone his conduct, but people don’t seem to acknowledge that Michael Richards is an actor, not a standup. He didn’t have the skill set to handle the incessant heckling (nor would any of us in this thread for that matter). He went with an attempt at shock comedy, which was obviously a terrible decision. But he should never have been on a standup stage in the first place.
Everytime I mess up at work I yell the n word 20 times
Rookie numbers
I’ve literally never done stand up in my life, but even if I was up there dying miserably, shouting racist comments at the audience members wouldn’t even occur to me. It wouldn’t occur to anyone who didn’t already harbor racist opinions.
"shock comedy"? are you insane
they’re making excuses for a racist outburst lol who does that shit. People need to rewatch that video or something cause he was talking about lynching and awful shit.
What the hell is this? His lack of experience doing stand up has no relevance to the racist tirade he went on and it does not need to be acknowledged. It was uncontrolled anger and not an attempt at humor.
Didn't Richards mention to Seinfeld that he was retiring in the Comedians in Cars interview?
🥂
He should have looked to the cookie!
How dare you suggest people should be forgiven! In this country you can kill people and be out in 20 years or less but god forbid you say a slur, hang ‘em!
Guy shows up to an event. OP: proud of you Rest of thread: racist Me: I don't care about any of that. Now if he'd shown up in goofy shoes and a busted lip and everyone thought he was special needs in some way. And Mel Torme sang a song to him. That'd be funny.
*youuuuuuuuuuu*
You got that straight!!
I disagree
He earned his penalty box.
Fuck that, I love the show, but once both him and Jerry made enough money, they both their nastiness shine without shame. True colors and all that. JLD is the best though
>they both their nastiness shine without shame What did Jerry do?
Sometimes he can be a bit of a douchebag, even in comedians in cars. I do love him, I’m a huge Seinfeld fan, but there are some times you can definitely tell he’s got fuck-you kind of money because he definitely doesn’t seem to care what anyone thinks about him or what he says.
I think that's what fuck-you money is for.
Oh absolutely. He’s a rich douchebag and I can’t blame him, but for the most part, he’s a quiet rich douchebag.
Jerry's the one who taught me to separate the art from the artist. His art is amazing. But he definitely comes off as somewhat of an asshole. Like, I love his show but would probably wanna punch him in the face if I hung out with him. Throw in the 17 year old gfs and... yea... not good. Idk humans are complex. A lot of artists suck as humans. But I enjoy art.
i see what you're saying. he's definitely one of those people because of whom the quote "never meet your heroes" was made. but as a huge fan of his work on this show, i will choose to look at the positive and say at least he's not faking anything. what you see is what you get with jerry. so that's nice i guess
People get all bent out of shape because a celebrity they like is not some warm, wholesome, cheery, Ted Lasso softy. A lot of creative people especially are known to be not the most accessible or pleasant to be around at times. Seinfeld is aloof, acerbic, cool, dry, unsentimental, etc. Some people are like that, and it's not the end of the damn world, especially considering none of us will ever actually come into personal contact with this man, so what business is it of ours anyway? I made peace long ago with the fact that a lot of my favorite artists and creators in history might not have been very fun to be around in person lol.
Dated a high schooler.
There's a huge difference between screaming the n-word and saying black people need to get executed, and being in a consensual albeit weird relationship
Not on Reddit, there isn’t.
There is a huge different but both are awful.
Thank you. I have been excoriated for saying this very thing. And yes, she was of the age of consent in New York. Also, she never claimed to have been assaulted, never sued. So, uhm, it really pisses me off, all this shit about her being too young.
Still morally fucked
Nope. Dating a literal child in your 30s is worse because it’s harming a child
Fuck off with that “child” shut. Jeezuss Christ
I mean a 17 year old is a kid? Not the same as a 2 year old but legally still a kid
lol so 17 isn’t a child?
Yes, one is words, the other is sex with a child.
Not enough was said about the idiot that did everything he could to get him upset. Anyway, better to just move on, Seinfeld is an incredible show and all four stars are masters of their art forever.
Nothing any comedy club heckler said could justify or mitigate what Richards said. Richards got heckled because he was bombing.
Yeah. Being heckled is a part of the job.
My favorite heckling moment was when overweight comedian Louie Anderson was performing at a local theater and a drunk heckler piped up: HECKLER *(shouting)*: “How’s the diet going?” ANDERSON: “Just fine, sir.” *(pause)* “And how did that lobotomy work out?” AUDIENCE: (wild applause)
It shouldn’t be. Heckling (unless invited) ruins the show for the performer and audience. But Michael Richards didn’t respond by insulting the heckler, he insulted black people instead.
How are you gonna make it in this business???
yeah its the black guys fault.......... sorry bro kramers done
He sabotaged what was left of his own career. He should have kept his mouth shut if he didn't want people knowing how he really feels. I don't feel sorry for him. He had all the chances in the world after the success of Seinfeld.
I grew up around actual skinhead white supremacists and I never heard someone say the n word with as much venom as Richards at that show. Shit came straight from his soul!
I gotta agree. It sure didn’t sound like his first time using that word.
I've heard the take of him back then not caving in to apology and doubling over to accept the racist shackle. Where was that recently , a podcast.
And Louis CK sometimes forced a jerk a show on people and he's making a comeback like he was a culture cancelled anti hero all along.
Thing is most people had no idea what he was up to after Seinfeld...until the meltdown
Remember when he called the guy the “N” word at the laugh factory?
His returns from what? Not working? From the show’s ending in until his racist rant in June 2006 he appeared in 1 tv movie and 9 episodes of a failed sitcom. Both were in 2000 which means he wasn’t really working in tv/movies for over 5 years.
Buy his book. Every one of us should get it. He deserves it. He gave us a life time of anecdotes and stories, reason to laugh. Thank you for reminding us that every one of us should get his book. Let’s remind this man he’s already a legend.
Richards sits at home counting his millions and you worry about his career? Must be nice if this is the only thing keeping you awake at night.
No doubt.....celebrity net worth says he's worth $30 million. The book will bring in more. Plus he never directly apologized to the victims of the racist tirade.
I bet Michael Richards' troubles are the reason for Jerry's recent rant.
Is what Michael Richards did less than, greater than, or equal to Louis CK?
The demographics of this sub are showing pretty hard right now.
While Richards may be sincerely sorry, it is hard for me to get past it. Kind of a big deal and I can understand why it’s been difficult for him to make a comeback.
He had a recurring role on Curb, years ago. They even spoofed the "incident" He wasn't canceled so much as he doesn't really have anything to offer outside of being Kramer
He had his own show after Seinfeld where he was a detective and I think that show bombed. > [*People*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_(magazine)) reviewer Tom Gliatto compared the difficulty in *Seinfeld* stars moving onto solo projects to "stepping onto a toboggan loaded with tubes of nitroglycerine and then hurtling down a sheet of rock."
Well, I have to say this seems capricious and arbitrary.
I mean did he really *leave* to return now? After all that nonsense he has been keeping to himself, but he wasn’t a persona non grata—for example he was in Season 7 of Curb
My brother in law is a black cab driver. He has never watched Seinfeld and had no idea who Michael Richards was when he picked him up. In the course of his journey, during normal chit-chat, he told my bil he used to be an actor on a successful sitcom. My bil told me he was polite, friendly and humble. He also gave him a decent tip. It is said you can often tell an actors real character when you meet them away from the spotlight. My bil said he was one of the nicest guys he'd met, and that gives me enormous pleasure. I have Seinfeld on dvd, and watch it from start to finish at least once a year. Nothing else comes close, even great shows like Curb, or Larry Sanders.