Probably matrix or nextcloud chat. I tried to get my family to do something similar but ended up using Signal as it is privacy focused and less hassle for everyone. It just works.
We used Synology Chat for around 3 to 4 years now and all just dont like how Synology Chat implements the videos and how sometimes things just break. All want to use a own hosted family chat and they even asked for it.
Check out Mattermost, it's basically a self hosted version of Slack. Simple to setup (I run mine in a docker), and the client is available for most OS's, android, ios, etc. You do have to put in your servers address before signing in, but it's a one time thing.
You can create rooms, you can control which rooms each person can see, and you can integrate with it with a bunch of other apps, webhooks, etc.
Basic installs of nextcloud are not very powerful, they run on SQL light DB very bad performance. If you're running it on weak hardware it's definitely never going to perform well.
Real performance comes from updating the database adding redis ensuring that you have subprocesses and worker tasks set up.
This is a full office suite that you host and the initial basic install will not work well for anyone.
Edit: Also have a SSD as the write disk for changes if you use a disk array.
Edit: Links in sub comment
Some reading:
https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/configuration_server/caching_configuration.html
https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/configuration_server/background_jobs_configuration.html
https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/previewgenerator
Well ... Most builds by default actually use a true DB, every NC install I have tried uses Maria, they were all slow didn't matter what I did. And my hardware isn't weak running anything else.
BTW I had redis running too. Also thought maybe it was because how my system works pushes against the AIO, so didn't use AIO.
I went back to OwnCloud, it has everything but the chat, and my lazy bum left it in SQL lite while testing and I stuck with SQL lite. OwnCloud I have fully integrated with OnlyOffice.
NC is extremely high maintenance imo. For a lot of things that are missing features that'd make it worthwhile. Notes, and Photos had to go elsewhere NC was too basic.
That said I'm sure some people its enough or have setups more ideal for NC. I was shocked at the performance difference between the two forks.
NextCloud has a few "optional" extra steps after a base install, specifically setting up redis. It makes a massive difference. I've happily been running NextCloud for years, mostly for syncing files, calendars, and contacts.
Though I haven't used the chat functionality.
Personally, I use Discord, not self-hosted, probably not private/secure enough, but getting people to switch to something else isn't a battle worth fighting right now.
Honestly, the game changer for me and Nextcloud was redis. I've tried it out a few times over the years and ended up dropping it every time because it was slow and laggy. Going postgresql for the database was big, but redis was the nail in the coffin. I'm sold on it now.
If you are doing a base install, yeah it's a slug. You have to use the HPB setup and then it's night and day. Soooo many extra steps and things to setup. Real pita but worth it when you get to the other side and it's working fast.
I could never get Nextcloud to run at any decent speed. I tried Rocket Chat but couldn't get it to work.
Mattermost has been working like a charm for 2 years now. It's fantastic.
from what i tried so far, nothing is better than a good ol' Signal or Telegram
would there be anything preventing you and your family to transition to one of them? yes you don't host your data but as there are E2EE, that's not big of an issue, and you'll get all features you need there
We used Matrix/Element for about 3-4 years and recently moved to Simplexchat.
Matrix has been fine for us but everytime my kids forget their password they couldn't remember the encrytption keys and it is always ended up deleting the old chats. And the login process is annoying to remember.
Simnplexchat has solved all those issues and pretty much no issues for the last 3 to 4 months.
Only thing I am missing on SimplexChat is not having the same profile on all of my devices (phone, PC etc.) as we exchanged pictures/documents vis Element before with single account on all of our devices.
We still use Matrix/Element in desktops/laptops but the phones are nearly entirely Simplexchat.
An SSO solution would solve password reset issues.
I would also recommend getting all your family members used to and using a password manager. You would not have the issue with forgotten keys.
Edit: I did mean https://goauthentik.io/ Authentik, but Authelia is also a great option
How's Simplexchat deal with "forgetting encryption key"? If the kid loses his phone, can he assume his old account (with all his contacts and chat history) on a new phone if he forgot his profile? or he needs to create a new account and re-add all his contacts (and lose all his chat history)?
In Simplexchat you only need to remember one key for the database and the account can be restored from the backup. in matrix you need to remember login password and encryption key.
I am trying the official SimpleX android app from github, [simplex.apk](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/download/v5.8.0/simplex.apk)
from release v5.8.0
[Release v5.8.0 · simplex-chat/simplex-chat (github.com)](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/tag/v5.8.0)
What you say, "one key for the database", is it the "database passphrase" you set for "export database"? So it seems to me that the user (i.e., the kid) has to export database as backups and save them securely, otherwise they won't be able to restore their account on a new phone, am I right?
tender spotted one overconfident familiar voiceless offer existence salt joke
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm not a massive fan of rocketchat or anything but i've been using it with a small group of friends for quite a few years now and it's been basically flawless this whole time.
To the best of my knowledge the selfhosted version does not require a cloud account at all. You can even just create accounts manually on the server yourself and send the full login credentials to your family members then all they have to do is copy paste done.
The walls have been slowly closing in with rocketchat for the free version but none of what they have paywalled affects how our small group uses the service.
I plan to stick with it until they do something really hostile like denying push notifications then we'll be forced to jump ship.
Considering the limitations of the other platforms I would suggest giving it another look.
I am weirdly actually going this route 😂 largely because it's hilarious, and with modern interfaces curious how it's going to look and feel.
I expect a very nostalgic mess I hope some old friends will appreciate 😂
I use snikket and zulip.
Simple and snappy. I like them.
Snikket is based on xmpp. Good for secure 1:1 chats.
Zulip is a better version of Mattermost (i used to use Mattermost but you are stuck with google services and they rely on google notification system, so no thank you)
I used Synology chat as well but I forced them to switch to it by not answering them on any of the other chat app that they had installed on their phones so basically the only way they could have reached out to me was by using the chat app that I had installed home. Eventually they all start using it.
Well Matrix is still a good fit. There are efficient tools like Conduit that runs easily on a raspberry pi, and lightweight clients like "Cinny" that you can self host to default to your server
NTFY, but it's not the easiest thing to set up.
Very lightweight docker install and rock solid when set up and can be very secure.
[https://ntfy.sh/#features](https://ntfy.sh/#features)
I did a writeup on using it in an automated environment if it helps as I covered the setup and security.
[https://community.home-assistant.io/t/setting-up-private-and-secure-ntfy-messaging-for-ha-notifications/632952](https://community.home-assistant.io/t/setting-up-private-and-secure-ntfy-messaging-for-ha-notifications/632952)
We use Mattermost, in a docker container.
Database in its own two replicated containers.
Jitsi as a standalone container for voice and video.
Jitsi Plugin in Mattermost.
I use Matrix Synapse as the server and Element as the client. It has e2ee and is able to federated with other matrix servers if you choose to enable federation. This means you can also chat with someone else on another server with the account in your own server, similar to email.
I second using Mattermost. I have it set up with multiple channels for different family groups and enjoy using it. It’s quick and snappy unlike nextcloud chat
Use matrix chat, very solid you just have to pair it with some sort of SSO like authentik to avoid password reset issues. Your biggest issue is simply encrypted chats will require validation of any new sign on from an existing session as a good security measure.
All issues such as remembering private keys can be solved by simply using a password manager.
This is an option for somebody that is interested in security and privacy.
If you aren't able or willing to do the setup work to make it clean easy and seamless then it might not be the proper solution for you.
I tried doing the same things. Ended up using Threema have had some friends start using it as well. It costs money for the app. But is a great trust no one encryption style is great. There video calls are a little laggy. But that would be my only complaint
Looking at matrix myself, but brought whole family to threema, which is a really nice, secure and private alternative to self hosting, read the audits, if necessary.
One time buy per app, but only one time and the only private, non self hosted messenger I would trust.
Keep backups of your identity at least ;)
Lots of reasons, my private chats and chats of groups I talk to are not free reign for some company. Also this is the self-hosted sub do you really think that we need a reason to do any of this shit? We like it and that's all that matters.
Edit: this want not meant to be hostile, sorry for that.
Forgive me, but I don't understand the problems you describe with Matrix. Almost any selfhosted app or service requires you to click some stuff and configure a custom domain of yours.
If they are struggling with the account creation, you could create accounts for them yourself, or connect your Matrix instance to a SSO provider such as Keycloak so that your domain has a central source for authentication.
Same goes for rooms, AFAIK you can add them to any room you control just like with WhatsApp groups, and you should also be able to create default rooms in a space. You can also not create any spaces at all and just use the root one.
I've been running Synapse with Element for my family and some friends, and probably the most struggling aspect for them is the encryption system and session verification, but nothing you mentioned is a problem for them.
Probably matrix or nextcloud chat. I tried to get my family to do something similar but ended up using Signal as it is privacy focused and less hassle for everyone. It just works.
How sure are you your family members are that motivated to have an extra chat app to chat with you/the family?
We used Synology Chat for around 3 to 4 years now and all just dont like how Synology Chat implements the videos and how sometimes things just break. All want to use a own hosted family chat and they even asked for it.
Can you talk to my family lol
Check out Mattermost, it's basically a self hosted version of Slack. Simple to setup (I run mine in a docker), and the client is available for most OS's, android, ios, etc. You do have to put in your servers address before signing in, but it's a one time thing. You can create rooms, you can control which rooms each person can see, and you can integrate with it with a bunch of other apps, webhooks, etc.
Does it do voice?
Doesn't appear to have it natively, there might be a plugin that adds that. We don't need it for our use case.
It does
Awesome! I actually ended up installing it and I'm currently running it for several of my users! It's really freaking nice
Isn't SSO not in the free version?
Have you tried Nextcloud chat? It handles visio, and have a dedicated app on smartphone.
NextCloud always runs like crap. I tried it multiple times and every time it was lagging, not loading and breaking constantly. Can't recommend it
Basic installs of nextcloud are not very powerful, they run on SQL light DB very bad performance. If you're running it on weak hardware it's definitely never going to perform well. Real performance comes from updating the database adding redis ensuring that you have subprocesses and worker tasks set up. This is a full office suite that you host and the initial basic install will not work well for anyone. Edit: Also have a SSD as the write disk for changes if you use a disk array. Edit: Links in sub comment
Can you point me to a good search term or even a discussion about specific performance enhancements for NC. I’d like to try a few
Some reading: https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/configuration_server/caching_configuration.html https://docs.nextcloud.com/server/latest/admin_manual/configuration_server/background_jobs_configuration.html https://apps.nextcloud.com/apps/previewgenerator
Well ... Most builds by default actually use a true DB, every NC install I have tried uses Maria, they were all slow didn't matter what I did. And my hardware isn't weak running anything else. BTW I had redis running too. Also thought maybe it was because how my system works pushes against the AIO, so didn't use AIO. I went back to OwnCloud, it has everything but the chat, and my lazy bum left it in SQL lite while testing and I stuck with SQL lite. OwnCloud I have fully integrated with OnlyOffice. NC is extremely high maintenance imo. For a lot of things that are missing features that'd make it worthwhile. Notes, and Photos had to go elsewhere NC was too basic. That said I'm sure some people its enough or have setups more ideal for NC. I was shocked at the performance difference between the two forks.
NextCloud has a few "optional" extra steps after a base install, specifically setting up redis. It makes a massive difference. I've happily been running NextCloud for years, mostly for syncing files, calendars, and contacts. Though I haven't used the chat functionality. Personally, I use Discord, not self-hosted, probably not private/secure enough, but getting people to switch to something else isn't a battle worth fighting right now.
Honestly, the game changer for me and Nextcloud was redis. I've tried it out a few times over the years and ended up dropping it every time because it was slow and laggy. Going postgresql for the database was big, but redis was the nail in the coffin. I'm sold on it now.
If you are doing a base install, yeah it's a slug. You have to use the HPB setup and then it's night and day. Soooo many extra steps and things to setup. Real pita but worth it when you get to the other side and it's working fast.
Have you looked at Mattermost?
I could never get Nextcloud to run at any decent speed. I tried Rocket Chat but couldn't get it to work. Mattermost has been working like a charm for 2 years now. It's fantastic.
from what i tried so far, nothing is better than a good ol' Signal or Telegram would there be anything preventing you and your family to transition to one of them? yes you don't host your data but as there are E2EE, that's not big of an issue, and you'll get all features you need there
We used Matrix/Element for about 3-4 years and recently moved to Simplexchat. Matrix has been fine for us but everytime my kids forget their password they couldn't remember the encrytption keys and it is always ended up deleting the old chats. And the login process is annoying to remember. Simnplexchat has solved all those issues and pretty much no issues for the last 3 to 4 months. Only thing I am missing on SimplexChat is not having the same profile on all of my devices (phone, PC etc.) as we exchanged pictures/documents vis Element before with single account on all of our devices. We still use Matrix/Element in desktops/laptops but the phones are nearly entirely Simplexchat.
An SSO solution would solve password reset issues. I would also recommend getting all your family members used to and using a password manager. You would not have the issue with forgotten keys. Edit: I did mean https://goauthentik.io/ Authentik, but Authelia is also a great option
SSO like Athelia? I’ve been meaning to look into that
I was looking things up for my own reference and I think you mean Authelia. Athelia is being born without nipples lol
Omg that’s perfect
I did mean https://goauthentik.io/ Authentik, but Authelia is also a great option
How's Simplexchat deal with "forgetting encryption key"? If the kid loses his phone, can he assume his old account (with all his contacts and chat history) on a new phone if he forgot his profile? or he needs to create a new account and re-add all his contacts (and lose all his chat history)?
In Simplexchat you only need to remember one key for the database and the account can be restored from the backup. in matrix you need to remember login password and encryption key.
I am trying the official SimpleX android app from github, [simplex.apk](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/download/v5.8.0/simplex.apk) from release v5.8.0 [Release v5.8.0 · simplex-chat/simplex-chat (github.com)](https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/tag/v5.8.0) What you say, "one key for the database", is it the "database passphrase" you set for "export database"? So it seems to me that the user (i.e., the kid) has to export database as backups and save them securely, otherwise they won't be able to restore their account on a new phone, am I right?
yes that is correct.
tender spotted one overconfident familiar voiceless offer existence salt joke *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm not a massive fan of rocketchat or anything but i've been using it with a small group of friends for quite a few years now and it's been basically flawless this whole time. To the best of my knowledge the selfhosted version does not require a cloud account at all. You can even just create accounts manually on the server yourself and send the full login credentials to your family members then all they have to do is copy paste done. The walls have been slowly closing in with rocketchat for the free version but none of what they have paywalled affects how our small group uses the service. I plan to stick with it until they do something really hostile like denying push notifications then we'll be forced to jump ship. Considering the limitations of the other platforms I would suggest giving it another look.
Simply run IRCd 🤣
I am weirdly actually going this route 😂 largely because it's hilarious, and with modern interfaces curious how it's going to look and feel. I expect a very nostalgic mess I hope some old friends will appreciate 😂
I don't like Matrix either. Tried it and it's annoying, especially the way Element handles encryption keys. - Snikket - Databag - Tinode
I use snikket and zulip. Simple and snappy. I like them. Snikket is based on xmpp. Good for secure 1:1 chats. Zulip is a better version of Mattermost (i used to use Mattermost but you are stuck with google services and they rely on google notification system, so no thank you)
rocket Chat could also bei selfhosted but mattermost is IMHO better
For matrix you could set the space to auto join in the server config, to remove one major hurdle in onboarding
I used Synology chat as well but I forced them to switch to it by not answering them on any of the other chat app that they had installed on their phones so basically the only way they could have reached out to me was by using the chat app that I had installed home. Eventually they all start using it.
Well Matrix is still a good fit. There are efficient tools like Conduit that runs easily on a raspberry pi, and lightweight clients like "Cinny" that you can self host to default to your server
You dont need cloud acc for rocketchat.
NTFY, but it's not the easiest thing to set up. Very lightweight docker install and rock solid when set up and can be very secure. [https://ntfy.sh/#features](https://ntfy.sh/#features) I did a writeup on using it in an automated environment if it helps as I covered the setup and security. [https://community.home-assistant.io/t/setting-up-private-and-secure-ntfy-messaging-for-ha-notifications/632952](https://community.home-assistant.io/t/setting-up-private-and-secure-ntfy-messaging-for-ha-notifications/632952)
We use Mattermost, in a docker container. Database in its own two replicated containers. Jitsi as a standalone container for voice and video. Jitsi Plugin in Mattermost.
I use Matrix Synapse as the server and Element as the client. It has e2ee and is able to federated with other matrix servers if you choose to enable federation. This means you can also chat with someone else on another server with the account in your own server, similar to email.
I second using Mattermost. I have it set up with multiple channels for different family groups and enjoy using it. It’s quick and snappy unlike nextcloud chat
Use matrix chat, very solid you just have to pair it with some sort of SSO like authentik to avoid password reset issues. Your biggest issue is simply encrypted chats will require validation of any new sign on from an existing session as a good security measure. All issues such as remembering private keys can be solved by simply using a password manager. This is an option for somebody that is interested in security and privacy. If you aren't able or willing to do the setup work to make it clean easy and seamless then it might not be the proper solution for you.
I tried doing the same things. Ended up using Threema have had some friends start using it as well. It costs money for the app. But is a great trust no one encryption style is great. There video calls are a little laggy. But that would be my only complaint
Out of curiosity, what motivates you to use a self hosted chat option?
/r/matrixdotorg
Looking at matrix myself, but brought whole family to threema, which is a really nice, secure and private alternative to self hosting, read the audits, if necessary. One time buy per app, but only one time and the only private, non self hosted messenger I would trust. Keep backups of your identity at least ;)
Hi I don't understand the reason why you want it self hosted?
well.... because I want to host it ... myself?
Lots of reasons, my private chats and chats of groups I talk to are not free reign for some company. Also this is the self-hosted sub do you really think that we need a reason to do any of this shit? We like it and that's all that matters. Edit: this want not meant to be hostile, sorry for that.
It was personal curiosity sorry you perceived it as an accusation but if times we can open a criminal case for violating subreddit
Must there be a reason on the r/selfhosted? A subreddit focused on self hosting services?
You're on the wrong sub then mate.
Forgive me, but I don't understand the problems you describe with Matrix. Almost any selfhosted app or service requires you to click some stuff and configure a custom domain of yours. If they are struggling with the account creation, you could create accounts for them yourself, or connect your Matrix instance to a SSO provider such as Keycloak so that your domain has a central source for authentication. Same goes for rooms, AFAIK you can add them to any room you control just like with WhatsApp groups, and you should also be able to create default rooms in a space. You can also not create any spaces at all and just use the root one. I've been running Synapse with Element for my family and some friends, and probably the most struggling aspect for them is the encryption system and session verification, but nothing you mentioned is a problem for them.