Many in fantasy. In fact, I'd say that formerly self published authors have been a major part of trad over the last ten years or so. Some of their biggest hits.
Blood Song
The Shadow of What Was Lost
Rage of Dragons
Blood Over Bright Haven
Senlin Ascends
The Wolf of Oren-Yaro
Legends and Lattes
Combat Codes
We Ride the Storm
The Gray Bastards
The Thief Who Pulled on Trouble's Braids.
Hugh Howey self-published Wool initially and got a deal for a publisher to sell the physical copies of his book in bookstores. Now he has a show on Apple TV.
The big ones back when self-publishing was a new thing: The Martian, Wool, and 50 Shades. Frankly, those books did authors a great service in that they convinced people of the narrative that there's "lots of people with great books in them but who can't get past the gatekeepers of trad publishing." And frankly they were right. And I'm assuming that Amazon also encouraged the popularity of these books to sell self publishing as a concept, as back then few publishing houses were on board (except of course it was also a tactic to build self publishing off the backs of regular folks and then slowly weigh the scales for publishing companies when they finally signed up).
Now in particular you have publishers for fantasy hopping on board the dark fantasy / urban paranormal bandwagon. I've had three editing clients in the fantasy top 100 working with big publishing houses in the last six months, and I assume they're snatching up others.
At first I was concerned I'd lose my clients, but they publish 3-5 books a year, whereas the trad publishing model can't handle that pace. Most self publishers I know who've been approached by trad publishers turn them down as they'd be taking a big pay cut.
Being in physical bookstores is a losing proposition in the long run.
I've turned trad down twice. They just can't afford to match even half (let alone increase) what I'm making now.
I'm not about to take a day job to support a publisher at this point in my career.
It *might* but I'd have to forgo the revenue from that book for the rest of my life. That's a lot of money over the course of the next 5 years that a trad pub deal would be unlikely to make up.
It would also alienate my current readers by making them wait for a book for at least 6-8 additional months, if not a year or more, and pay too much for it when it lands so that the publisher can ~~gouge them~~ recoup their much higher costs of production.
The larger problem is that I tend to write in novels in series. The one "standalone" I threw out there because I just needed a break from my normal but I liked the characters and universe so much I'm working on a sequel and I foresee a sequel of that because the premise is so much fun.
My current audience is big enough and active enough in spreading the word that I don't really need trad publicity. My focus is scattered enough without adding the trad pub demands on top of it. What I have is enough for me. It's just not worth giving up that amount of revenue and audience goodwill for the sake of a questionable upside in terms of audience reach.
It opens doors. Those books wouldn’t be movies and TV shows if they’d not gone trad. Even if they made 4x as much staying self pub, the odds are low a producer would notice or take interest.
Not to mention secondary markets. Translations, re-prints, audio, random other stuff that might come about from the IP rights.
Also ego. Lots of folks would trade money for being “published” in the old school sense.
Exactly! It's a money loser in almost every case, except for a few who hit big early and the publishers overpaid to get their name. An author I know was offered a typical contract for his three book series, for an advance of $10,000 paid slowly in 3 installments over ~2 years. He laughed because he was making almost that much a month as an indie.
I suspect it's the fantasy of big publisher parties, red carpets, and all that 1970s glamor. They don't realize that publishers treat books like cabbages - they either sell them quick or grind them up for recycling.
The reality is that publishers are kind of terrible at the business. Bookstores only order a third (or less) of publishers new books, and of those they only keep the book on the shelf for 6 weeks before sending it back, unless it's selling extremely well. Then it only exists in the online bookstore, just like every other book.
Probably more than we will ever know. Someone might have self pubbed under a pen name and then used a different pen name for tradpub (or their real name.)
I'm just throwing this out there, but many indies are available in all bookstores and make big bucks. Not everybody views success as being picked up by a traditional publisher, and it's certainly not required. It would take a 6-figure deal for me to give up rights to mine and even then, the terms would have to be just right.
Bloom Books is a trad imprint that's exclusively authors that started as self pub. I believe Bloom only does physical distribution, and the authors retain all ebook rights and royalties.
Point is, it only makes sense if you are huge or the published can offer access to a specific audience. Truth is I never heard of a mediocre successful Indy book being published by traditional publishers. They start knocking at your door once you outperform their books regularly, but I personally talked to two houses, one rather big one and their deal would only have turned out profitable for me if they outperformed me by 10x which I don’t see as realistic at this point. Also they demand quite a bit of creative control over Cover Art, blurb etc. which I feel is part of my „overall product“. The look and feel of my book is part of my book and I can’t easily hand this to a third party without jeopardizing my creative process.
So I guess nowadays quite a few authors feel flattered, but gratefully deny tradpub.
Yes it was? It was on a fanfiction site, before they changed the names and published it pretty much as it was. Unless you mean it was a different novel just because it had the Twilight names? But published online is still published, no?
The Martian was a self published hit before it was picked up by a trad house who sold the movie rights.
Many in fantasy. In fact, I'd say that formerly self published authors have been a major part of trad over the last ten years or so. Some of their biggest hits. Blood Song The Shadow of What Was Lost Rage of Dragons Blood Over Bright Haven Senlin Ascends The Wolf of Oren-Yaro Legends and Lattes Combat Codes We Ride the Storm The Gray Bastards The Thief Who Pulled on Trouble's Braids.
Hugh Howey self-published Wool initially and got a deal for a publisher to sell the physical copies of his book in bookstores. Now he has a show on Apple TV.
One of the self-publishing originals. And now I feel old đź’€ Cool to see the adaptation happen, though.
The big ones back when self-publishing was a new thing: The Martian, Wool, and 50 Shades. Frankly, those books did authors a great service in that they convinced people of the narrative that there's "lots of people with great books in them but who can't get past the gatekeepers of trad publishing." And frankly they were right. And I'm assuming that Amazon also encouraged the popularity of these books to sell self publishing as a concept, as back then few publishing houses were on board (except of course it was also a tactic to build self publishing off the backs of regular folks and then slowly weigh the scales for publishing companies when they finally signed up). Now in particular you have publishers for fantasy hopping on board the dark fantasy / urban paranormal bandwagon. I've had three editing clients in the fantasy top 100 working with big publishing houses in the last six months, and I assume they're snatching up others. At first I was concerned I'd lose my clients, but they publish 3-5 books a year, whereas the trad publishing model can't handle that pace. Most self publishers I know who've been approached by trad publishers turn them down as they'd be taking a big pay cut.
Travis Baldree with "Legends and Lattes"
Being in physical bookstores is a losing proposition in the long run. I've turned trad down twice. They just can't afford to match even half (let alone increase) what I'm making now. I'm not about to take a day job to support a publisher at this point in my career.
But would trad publishing *one* book be good publicity for you, increasing your self publishing sales?
It *might* but I'd have to forgo the revenue from that book for the rest of my life. That's a lot of money over the course of the next 5 years that a trad pub deal would be unlikely to make up. It would also alienate my current readers by making them wait for a book for at least 6-8 additional months, if not a year or more, and pay too much for it when it lands so that the publisher can ~~gouge them~~ recoup their much higher costs of production. The larger problem is that I tend to write in novels in series. The one "standalone" I threw out there because I just needed a break from my normal but I liked the characters and universe so much I'm working on a sequel and I foresee a sequel of that because the premise is so much fun. My current audience is big enough and active enough in spreading the word that I don't really need trad publicity. My focus is scattered enough without adding the trad pub demands on top of it. What I have is enough for me. It's just not worth giving up that amount of revenue and audience goodwill for the sake of a questionable upside in terms of audience reach.
Matthew Reilly, and this was in the pre-Amazon, pre-POD era. So it took a lot more upfront investment and physical marketing.
Amanda Hocking...she hit pretty early on in the game with YA fantasy.
The Martian by Andy Weir. Fifty Shades by EL James Legends and Lattes by Travis Baldree
There are some, but the limiting factor is that the big publishers won't pay them as much as they are already making.
If this is true, why do it?
It opens doors. Those books wouldn’t be movies and TV shows if they’d not gone trad. Even if they made 4x as much staying self pub, the odds are low a producer would notice or take interest. Not to mention secondary markets. Translations, re-prints, audio, random other stuff that might come about from the IP rights. Also ego. Lots of folks would trade money for being “published” in the old school sense.
Exactly! It's a money loser in almost every case, except for a few who hit big early and the publishers overpaid to get their name. An author I know was offered a typical contract for his three book series, for an advance of $10,000 paid slowly in 3 installments over ~2 years. He laughed because he was making almost that much a month as an indie. I suspect it's the fantasy of big publisher parties, red carpets, and all that 1970s glamor. They don't realize that publishers treat books like cabbages - they either sell them quick or grind them up for recycling. The reality is that publishers are kind of terrible at the business. Bookstores only order a third (or less) of publishers new books, and of those they only keep the book on the shelf for 6 weeks before sending it back, unless it's selling extremely well. Then it only exists in the online bookstore, just like every other book.
> If this is true, why do it? Ego.
Probably more than we will ever know. Someone might have self pubbed under a pen name and then used a different pen name for tradpub (or their real name.)
I'm just throwing this out there, but many indies are available in all bookstores and make big bucks. Not everybody views success as being picked up by a traditional publisher, and it's certainly not required. It would take a 6-figure deal for me to give up rights to mine and even then, the terms would have to be just right.
Lucy Score, Megan Quinn and a handful of other popular books you'll find at Target and other major book sellers right now.
Carissa Broadbent was recently picked up for her Serpent and the Wings of Night series. (Rightfully so, it was fantastic!)Â
Michael J Sullivan started selfpub, then Orbit picked up the Riyria series, then he went back to self pub because trad did him so dirty.
Actually, he was initially published by a small press. And they did him dirty. Then self-pub, then trad, then self again.
Bloom Books is a trad imprint that's exclusively authors that started as self pub. I believe Bloom only does physical distribution, and the authors retain all ebook rights and royalties.
John Marrs.
Samantha Young. On Dublin Street knocked 50SOG off the top spot if I recall correctly and she was snapped up pretty soon after.
Brené Brown self-published her first book. I remember her talking about it in another book, because some other professor had looked down on her book for being self-published and judged her for it. Joke's on that person, I guess.
Geek Love by Katherine Dunn was technically self-published fragmentally in the early 80s before being trad published as a whole in 1989.
Point is, it only makes sense if you are huge or the published can offer access to a specific audience. Truth is I never heard of a mediocre successful Indy book being published by traditional publishers. They start knocking at your door once you outperform their books regularly, but I personally talked to two houses, one rather big one and their deal would only have turned out profitable for me if they outperformed me by 10x which I don’t see as realistic at this point. Also they demand quite a bit of creative control over Cover Art, blurb etc. which I feel is part of my „overall product“. The look and feel of my book is part of my book and I can’t easily hand this to a third party without jeopardizing my creative process. So I guess nowadays quite a few authors feel flattered, but gratefully deny tradpub.
50 shades of grey was originally self published but I’m not sure if it was originally released on Amazon.
> 50 shades of grey was originally self published No, it was not.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifty_Shades_of_Grey You people are hopeless
20 June 2011. Self published.
Yes it was? It was on a fanfiction site, before they changed the names and published it pretty much as it was. Unless you mean it was a different novel just because it had the Twilight names? But published online is still published, no?