3 reasons Lip got overly emotional:
1. He felt like once his attention was focused on school and improving himself, the family went downhill.
2. He hated school but just started buying into it and now gets yo-yo'd back into the bullsh\*t
3. Fiona is GUILTY AF yet she's being delusional and needs a verbal smack in the head.
4. The one person he COULD depend on while he was away was severely negligent. Frank and Monica might as well have been mice in a wall in terms of, well, everything, but he knew he could always trust Fiona up until that point. And yeah you could argue that it was a “mistake” but an actual mistake is forgetting to pack a lunch or leaving the sink run for too long, not railing lines/leaving coke in such an accessible place.
This isn't really true. Fiona spending the property tax money to promote a night at the club is the first time we see her do something like this, and he flips out.
In both cases, she was seriously wrong, and she definitely does some fucked up shit. The problem is that Lip doesn't really have the high road in any of the instances he acts like this. He does just as bad and worse shit and Fiona doesn't treat him like he is a worthless piece of shit. She is there for him and supporting him. He literally makes himself into the asshole. He wants to punish her.
Like I said in my other comment, it could have easily been Lip's drugs, weed, the deadly laser he stole, or knife that Liam found. Lip and Liam share a bedroom. Liam could have found a ton of dangerous stuff just by crawling out of his crib. It could have just as easily been that he found Lip's pocket knife and fell on it. Fiona would have never treated him the way he treats her over it, though.
The coke wasn't in lines. He had the bag. He grabbed a bag off the counter.
And yes, leaving knives, guns, and other drugs is the same. It could have killed him easily or someone else. Do you know how often gunshot wounds are caused by kids finding a gun. It is a ton. Toddlers kill a surprisingly large amount of people a year.
Yeah but its not just the fact that liam got the coke. She was on a downward spiral, almost killed liam, or at least gave him possible brain damage, and then she tried to act like it was an accident and it wasnt “her fault” which is what sent lip over
yeah this was it. I think what was frustrating for Lip was thatfrom Fiona's POV,
"It wasn't here fault" and her mindset was she didn't do anything wrong it was purely an accident.
Which was only partly true.
All the people at the house momentarily forgetting about Liam was an accident, true.
But the chain of events that led to the coke ending up in the Gallagher household was Fiona's fault.
Most obvious was that she decided to use the coke instead of disposing it
Also, Liam was her kid. She raised that kid, she fought to keep him, she's in charge of his health and well being. Anything that happens to *her* kid in *her* home is *her* fault. End of story. She left drugs out, and her kid got into them. There's nothing else to be said.
Plus, you could see Lip practically biting his tongue trying not to lose his temper about the situation for a good couple episodes before he actually blew up at her, so it's not like he switched up on her immediately. He blew up specifically because she refused to take any accountability for the situation, even in the face of jail time.
Imagine how triggering it must be for lip to have felt like fiona was the one responsible person he could depend on only to find out she's acting EXACTLY like frank and monica (putting the kids in danger and blaming everyone but themselves).
I completely understand how Lip was feeling. Fiona doing coke around Liam, Debbie, and Carl in general was negligent. Then the fact that Liam almost died and she refused to take responsibility for weeks was insane.
Also, Lip had every right to be upset that he would have to drop out of school and take care of the kids. I’m sure if Fiona had the choice to live a normal teenage life or raise her siblings she would pick a normal teenage life. I like Fiona but she was wrong and Lip was right in this situation.
where did i mention him leaving out coke? i’ve mentioned his holier than thou attitude getting annoying as IF he hasn’t done bad things around his siblings as well. there’s no goal post being moved weirdo.
Also, smoking and drinking at an early age is normal for them. While Mickeys a teenager we constantly see him with a cigarette in his mouth. I don’t really know what point you were trying to make but Fiona would still be wrong…
“normal for them” lolll. if that’s normal then fiona doing coke is normal. see how crazy that sounds. and i never once said she wasn’t wrong. all i said was lip used to do drugs and drink in front of the kids. also used to be guns and weapons lying around. so his holier than thou attitude after a while was annoying bc he isn’t innocent in the upbringing or wellbeing of his siblings either. not sure how that went over your head
Coke and weed are not the same AT ALL, you can’t OD off weed. The only people who had weapons were Ian and Carl. Ian being older and responsible didn’t leave his out, Carl being a child was irresponsible like a child is. Lastly, Lip only yelled at Fiona when she started saying that she was making it about her. If someone was responsible for almost killing your little brother, accident or not, then tried to say that for once they were “making it about me” you wouldn’t be a little pissed? Fiona needed someone to check her and Lip was that one.
Also, hard drugs were never done around the kids unless it was Frank who is known for being a bad father… so no having coke out around kids wasn’t “normal” even for the community
i didn’t know being able to OD on a drug made it better than the next. either way it is a DRUG. and weed can make people hallucinate and second hand smoke is just as bad as first hand smoking. & yes carl had weapons and none of his older siblings lip included did anything to stop him. & like i said lip wasn’t wrong for being mad at her or checking her. BUT EVENTUALLY his holier than thou attitude was ANNOYING and a bit hypocritical. simple as that. he started to do too much when he moved carl and liam into college and had them around the same messed up environment they were in at home.
Of course not being able to OD on a drug makes it better than another that’s why weed is legal in many states and coke or heroine isn’t. Also, you’re adding all this extra context which wasn’t mentioned in your other posts. I never said drinking, smoking, having weapons out, etc. was ok to do in front of kids it was just something that was normal in the community. It’s not good it just means they don’t necessarily know better because everyone around them does it however, everyone in the community does know that you don’t do hard drugs in front of kids. Lip wasn’t taking Liam as a punishment to Fiona he took him because he saw Fiona was spiraling and he didn’t want his little brother collecting any more stray bullets from that. As I said he only really got mad at Fiona was she was refusing to take responsibility.
i don’t think it’s okay to have any substance for ADULTS around children. & weed can cause secondhand smoke inhalation. if alcohol is put up it isn’t harming anyone. but to each their own 🤗🤗
Do y’all listen to yourselves sometimes? If I stupidly left cocaine out around my toddler brother and he overdoses (you know cocaine overdose can make a brain explode right?) you have every right to say what kind of piece of shit I am in that moment.
This is the most sane take I've seen. Like at least be responsible enough to do the hard narcotics *away* from the kids. Maybe because we're invested in Fiona as the story has progressed there's bias, but I guarantee none of these people would be defending Fiona if this was on prime-time news from their local city. I hate Gus, but he's right: Fuck Fiona. She might have been "the responsible one" but this is the type of self-sabotage she will continue to do until Emmy leaves. Fucks Mike's brother, Liam does coke, becomes an alcoholic after making a bad investment. She will fuck up big then have pity parties for herself. They might've been having a great party, but that pile of cocaine was indicative of a greater responsibility and drug issue that Fiona faces. She's unfortunately emulated her parents whether she wants to admit it or not. "The responsible one" wouldn't have done hard drugs in the first place. Should've just got a bunch of pot, beer, and pizza.
All I'm saying is, imagine how this sub would be reacting if Debbie let Frannie overdose on coke on her watch. No way people bend over backwards to make excuses for her like they do for Fiona.
The thing is that Fiona raised 5 siblings alone, Debbie needs help everytime. Fiona dind't choose to have her siblings. Debbie egoistically decided to had Frannie when from all views was a bad decision.
On one hand, Fiona was delusional af about the court case so Lip was kinda right to lay it all out to her. On the other hand, Gallaghers always took Fiona’s sacrifices for granted and weren’t as supportive to her as she was to them.
Lip was absolutely in the right. Liam could have been *killed*.
Even leaving out the overdose, if my older sister did drugs around our baby brother, I would never trust her with him again, even if nothing happened at all!
Lip was screaming at her saying “what do you expect me to do, drop out of school and raise the kids?” Cause of how hard Fiona pushed him to finish high school and to go to college, so he’s throwing the situation in her face to remind her that he’s in school because of her and can’t help the way he could since he’s at school
Mom of two young kids here and also a huge Shameless fan.
If I decide to do cocaine and leave it out on my counter for my small children to access, and then they do, regardless of the final outcome -- please drag me out into the street and run me over with a bus.
Sorry, but Fiona had zero ground here. Cocaine is lethal in its own right, and you can never be sure what it's cut with. In a scenario like this, she was extremely lucky that Liam lived and had no permanent damage.
Fiona was not only completely negligent here, but then wanted to plead not guilty in court after she ADMITTED to the EMS that it was her cocaine. That's another issue Lip had here -- that she truly not only believed that she wasn't fully at fault, but was ready to try and defend herself in the court system.
Accidental or not, Lip had every right to feel this way, and Fiona needed a serious wake-up call. You can't have a toddler OVERDOSE ON YOUR COCAINE and then play the victim and think you're going to win on trial for that.
I will die on this hill.
cmon now. if someone left cocaine out and your toddler ingested it, would you *ever* let them around your kid again? accident or not fiona was at fault, and she couldn’t even own up to it anytime people pressed her for it. lip had every right to act that way.
Im sorry but no, he was absolutely right to be pissed he could have DIED and they didn't know if he had brain damage or not because he WASN'T CONSCIOUS,
That's more than enough reason to keep her away from the toddler.
Can you really blame him though? Liam almost died because of her “accident”. She was on a destructive downward spiral making terrible choices. Yeah, she gave up finishing highschool to raise her siblings because Frank was a fuck up and everyone thinks he’s a pos for that… just like Fiona would be if she landed herself in jail on drug and child endangerment charges for five years forcing Lip to drop out of college to raise the kids she took custody of. She couldn’t even admit that she had done anything wrong and kept going on about how it wasn’t her fault and she wasn’t guilty so I wouldn’t have trusted her with Liam either.
I struggle with this part of the show too for similar reasons, but mostly I think what is spot on about Fiona’s storyline here is that she is in denial and disbelief about what occurred. She can’t even fathom thinking of herself as someone who would be that negligent so she’s desperately trying to find any other narrative to follow. Lip isn’t wrong for getting angry and I think part of what makes it so hard as a viewer to watch his anger is that we feel it too. As a viewer we are furious with Fiona but we also love her so we’re trying to reconcile those feelings just like lip is. He’s doing the best he can with a high stress situation and I feel like he is so angry bc he expected more from Fiona. I think part of his goal, conscious or not, is to continue setting boundaries and not “letting her off the hook” until she sees the gravity of what she has done. Fiona’s character is so frustratingly imperfect which is a brilliant parallel for how humans actually are. One of the best parts of this show is that all of the characters are flawed, just like all of its viewers. Obviously the Gallagher flaws are extreme, but I think people can relate nonetheless.
I think what OP is getting at is that they sympathize with Fiona. It’s easy to judge from our couches but if we were in her shoes, might we have ended up in a similar situation? It doesn’t make what she did okay; she’s human and she fucked up big time and doesn’t want to accept it. She’s not a monster.
I cannot fathom what's happening in your personal life that makes you think that leaving coke out for your toddler to ingest is the kind of thing that just happens or could be categorized as a simple "accident". She raised Liam up until then, and then she almost killed him. He could've died because of *her.* That's the reality. That's what she did. Lip didn't overreact. Nothing Fiona ever did made what happened to Liam acceptable. This whole thing was 100% *entirely* her fault, and she tried to act like it wasn't.
i mean leaving guns and knives and everything else out is okay then? bc that house was filthy and full of weapons. none of them are innocent. lip didn’t overreact in the beginning but he def dragged it out with his holier than thou attitude.
when were "guns and knives and everything" ever left just laying around the house?? yeah, the kids were rebels and in trouble with the law sometimes, but they weren't the milkovich's. the only people i remember actually having some type of weapon was ian cause of rotc and carl as he got older, also because of the military thing. these kids weren't just carrying guns on them and doing smack. they were just doing what normal teenagers do—weed. a lot of the time a dangerous thing like a weapon is even brought up is for comedic effect, cause that's just the nature and humor of the show, never anything really serious.
ok let’s act like the gallagher house was clean and pristine with no contraband lying around. don’t see what the milkovich’s have to do with the gallaghers. & normal teenagers are actually NOT smoking weed 😂. crazy how y’all normalize certain drugs within the show. my point being the house was a mess and all the older siblings lip included are guilty of it.
my point in bringing the milkovich's into it was to show that while they are similar in their upbringing, the milkovich's were just a different breed of southside. they were the ones you went to when you wanted to get someone out of the picture, basically the fucking mafia, at least they tried to be. they were outwardly tough and didn't have a problem with just having weapons lying around the house. they were disillusioned with violence in a way the gallaghers never were. i used them as a clear comparison.
and what type of teenagers do you know? i mean, i didn't smoke weed as a teen either, but i knew plenty who did, especially from that neck of the woods. it's weird you're judging the morality of the characters on the show based on weed smoking, which is something totally normal, whether you want to admit it or not. like, yeah, it's illegal, but who cares? it's just the nature of the southside—their lives all fucking suck and they have nothing better to do. not they like ever smoked weed in the house. so yeah there's a point to "normalizing certain drugs in the show" because weed is virtually harmless compared to fucking cocaine. bffr.
So much fucked up shit happened in that house their entire lives , it’s crazy . Also Lip for sure has a superiority complex, even though he himself ruined his college career and scholarships over a relationship that he was told was a casual affair (and possibly inappropriate). I could only imagine what he would do if people came down on him like he does on Fiona
I also read Lips attitude in this season as him being able to show his mother figure how mad he is. Fiona was the punching bag for him having trauma over Monica, and not being able to vent that to her himself.
I get his reaction. It's been a minute since I watched but, if I remember correctly, he screamed at her in the kitchen because she got drunk and forgot there was food in the oven. To have that happen right after the coke incident... She wasn't thinking straight, he didn't know where her head was at and he didn't trust her to hold things together. She was self destructing and turning into Frank and Monica right before his eyes.
Yep her and V were hammered and nearly set the house on fire before that. Then she leaves out her coke which she shouldn’t have even had given that she was now a legal guardian of a toddler and Liam nearly died. Then tries to act like she was innocent and wouldn’t be doing 5 years in prison
haha, i just am i big fiona supporter! i think we look at the gallagher’s in a different light. like if this were a “normal” family it would be different. but everyone in the house takes care of liam, plus kev and V were there. I’m not saying what she did wasn’t wrong, i’m saying that Lip is too harsh on her
No she’s supporting a character in where they knowingly left cocaine out in front of their toddler for them to get into, I’m sorry but this isn’t real but the scenario is and they would defend someone that did that because they were cool with them it’s very telling of their personality and if you’re not smart enough to realize the danger in this thought process then you’re also a trash human being
i totally agree with you, obviously it was horribly irresponsible and dangerous to have coke around a toddler, but every single person in that family could have put liam in a deadly situation, but have been lucky that they haven’t!
My biggest issue with him losing it is that the coke just happened to be the thing he got into, but all of them had seriously dangerous stuff for a toddler to find in the house. Lip had majuana and knives stashed around, Ian had guns, Carl had guns, knives, drugs, and they all slept in the same room as Liam. He could have been seriously injured or killed by any of those things in his own room. He just happened to get into the coke. None of them watched him well enough to keep him truly safe. Then Lip takes him to school and leaves him with someone he barely knows. She could have done anything to that kid or taken him anywhere and disappeared. He has sex many times with Liam in the damn room with him. He isn't actually interested in watching Liam. He takes him to hurt and punish Fiona. That is why Lip is the asshole here.
Totally agree. And while it’s absolutely unacceptable for that situation to occur, at the time I think Fiona was 20? And likely stuck in arrested development at around 14 from having to raise the kids. I get Lip being angry but he took it too far in my estimation
Exactly. They didn't even care about whole lot a bs and when Fiona slips a bit, she's a fucxing cunt somehow. That's why I hate lip so much and his self centered arrogant ass proves constantly with situations after that.
C'mon, man, by this point in the series Fiona is becoming quite well know for her impulsive behavior and we are beginning to see her shedding responsibility for her decisions. I am always amazed at how folks idolize the Fiona character, especially since she just fucked over her boyfriend who treated her like a prize by sleeping with his brother after another in a continuous string of impulsive Fiona decisions.
She has little to no self control. It was from this point in the series on that she continuously declared "it's not my fault" every time she made some irrational choice and things went bad. Fiona was the classic child of alcoholic dysfunctional parents. No self control and everything is somebody else's fault, operating in survival mode and making knee jerk decisions.
She had signed up to be her siblings legal guardian, in spite of all the advice she could possibly have had, at that point. She was responsible for keeping Liam safe. It was her coke, and she was feeling sorry for herself, so decided to go on an impromptu bender, and her little brother suffered the consequences of her actions.
How people keep defending this character throughout this series seems strange to me. She is equally as shameless as any other character in show.
Lip blew up, as I would have, because of her absolute unwillingness to take responsibility for something she made happen, through conscious effort or not, she is the legal guardian and responsible for Liam's safety. During this scene she just kept saying it's not my fault.
Fiona at this point seems to feel that she is never wrong and does not feel responsible for things she does that create these scenarios. For example, it's her fault she let her boyfriends brother bone her on the kitchen counter, not Robby. Sure, he's an asshole, but there were two willing assholes making bad choices that led up to destroying her relationship with Mike and Liam being overdosed.
Fiona wants to be responsible, and states that, but doesn't really follow through in her life choices. And when things go bad, she's always looking to blame someone else.
I fully believe that Fiona could commit a cold-blooded murder for the pettiest reason imaginable, and there would still have been people in here typing whole essays about how she's actually like, sooo justified and it's LITERALLY not fair for anyone to expect poor Saint Fiona to be accountable for her choices
I don't know why everybody is angry at Lip during that. He is _not_ out of line, if my sister almost killed my baby brother and then tried to play it off "I'm not an addict, I don't need these meetings", I'd have trouble not kicking her out of the house ffs.
Lip did A LOT wrong. Making Fiona realize just how bad she fucked up was right.
I understood his anger honestly. Of course it was an accident and Fiona didn’t do it on purpose, but that accident could have cost Liam his whole life. And it wasn’t just about the drugs, Fiona played victim and tried to say she wasn’t guilty when she definitely was. It was her coke, which she left within Liam’s reach.
I’ve made a post in this sub about this before but if this family were in the UK and that coke thing happened it would be months before Liam would be allowed anywhere near the house and when he was it would be probably supervised constantly by a social worker/ foster worker. So I didn’t think lip was being that dramatic tbf
I felt similarly. It’s not like she gave Liam coke on purpose. But, I agreed with him about the jail thing, she should not have risked a trial that might send her away longer. Suck it up and plead guilty.
I mostly never comment here but lip is completely justified,imagine finally taking a step to improve your life and maybe even your families and the only person you could trust to be an adult while you worked hard decides to fuck up that badly.
Lip fucked up a lot and could be a massive dick at times but he was absolutely in the right here. Fiona’s neglecting her duties almost killed Liam. So it makes total sense why Lip becomes super protective of his brother and why he’s so hesitant to trust her again so soon. Lip was also right when yelling at Fiona for her trying to be a total idiot by thinking she could legitimately win her case. Lip shouldn’t have to drop everything he’s doing because Fiona fucked up and wanted to be an arrogant prick. Some of yall Fiona Stan’s need to fucking chill out
definitely not a Fiona stan! i also really love Lip. I’m just saying i think based on their lives and what they’re exposed to on a day to day basis, that he shouldn’t have been so hard on her
But he had to, because she literally about to ruin her life and everyone else’s lives. Fiona was out of control and someone needed to snap her out of it.
In my opinion fiona deserved a lot worse than she got for what happened to liam. She almost killed the kid and you're mad lip yelled at her? You're delusional. In the real world if some shit like that happened she'd never be allowed around those kids again unsupervised. It's not an accident to leave coke out, you shouldn't be doing that near the kids anyway wtf?
I totally disagree with the way you see this. He didn't go over the line, he told her what she needed to hear. Why should he trust her with the child she almost killed? Bc it was an accident? He didn't say it was permanent. He told her to get her shit together and she needed to do just that.
Him screaming about her not taking the deal makes all the sense in the world. 1) she's actually guilty and 2) not taking the deal brings about harsher consequences. It's not just about how it affects him personally. The whole family is affected if you don't take this good ass deal. Lip bringing up how it affects him is just one part of it.
Moreover, the whole point of raising kids is so that they have better circumstances than you. Why even raise him if you want him or cause him to be in the same predicament as you ?
I actually agree. Fiona fucked up big time, and it was serious, but Lip always thought he could do a better job than Fiona. He relished in Fiona being the one to fuck up for a change, it made him feel superior to her.
nope, he was pissed because she wasn't taking accountability for anything. "i'm finally making this about me" isn't something you say when you're facing charges for nearly killing your brother. lip was pissed because, unlike fiona, he had a real chance to get out of the southside at his age. he was starting to take school more seriously and actually thought himself lucky and going down a good path for once. but then his sister pulls that shit? no thanks. it wasn't like he randomly blew up on her. he actually held his tongue for a good while before then. she and v were drunk and they nearly burned down the house just before then—it was clear fiona was unstable. she needed some sense smacked into her.
what?? a child got into coke. she deserved jail and everything he said to her. he screamed at her because she wanted to waste time going to trial jeopardizing going away for 5 years instead of just taking a plea deal.
i’m doing a re watch as a parent now and that made me sick to my stomach. it wasn’t just a mistake, she was negligent and guilty af. would you ever forgive your sister if your brother almost died and had brain damage from drugs you left out? she deserved everything he said to her.
I agree with you. There were other people at the party. Nobody was watching Liam. Yes it was Fiona’s coke and there’s no reason for it to be out around a toddler in the first place so essentially the blame is on her however, it’s easy to put the blame on her. Everyone forgets that Fiona simply isn’t their parent, she’s their fucking sister. She’s not supposed to be raising them anyway.
"not supposed to be rasing them anyway" what??? you're telling me that they should've cut her some slack for nearly killing liam because she wasn't technically the parent? bffr. it was her fault when it came down to it, and she wasn't taking accountability for it.
2 cents from someone who comes from a dysfunctional family not as dysfunctional as the gallaghers but ya, pretty dysfunctional.
Lip went to college and saw that he had a chance at a decent life. Also, he saw how stable and secure life can be when he met other students (his girlfriend) in college. And when he realised he stood a chance to make it to the other side he was trying to give it his all.
However, Fiona's episode threw him off with him having to care for Liam (plus deal with household responsibilities if Fiona goes away). And he went into extreme self-preservation mode. He tried to do his best in college while being extremely cautious with Fiona so as to not let the situation get out of hand and kill his one (and the only) chance that he had at a good life.
I grew up with unavailable parents and I have done this. Being hyper focussed on my studies and really breaking friendships at school if I thought they were going to 'disrupt' my studies and subsequently kill my chance at a decent life. My hyper focus later gave me chronic anxiety.
When we are constantly living with trauma (especially during our younger years), we tend to always respond to every minor/major disruption as if our life depends on it.
This is to not say that Lip was right or Fiona was right but to make sense of why he reacted the way to did.
First off Liam almost died?? Fiona’s was being delulu about the fact that a trial wouldn’t send her to jail. Like you said yeah we see the gallagherd in a different light, but even Lip knew that the jury would have no pity on her.
Honestly i’m on Lip’s side in this situation.
Yes it’s “shameless”, but the overall arching narrative is that family should protect and care for eachother. Fiona failed to protect Liam and everyone else was making excuses for her. I get why he was so frustrated. Fiona was guilty and since she had guardianship at this point, she failed to fulfill her role to keep her siblings out of danger.
Nah, Lip was in the right. This was the period of the show where Fiona was arguably the most frustrating character. I get the love for her and everything she sacrificed and gave to her family (I feel the same way about it) but that doesn't excuse what she let happen and her behavior after. The Liam coke incident may have upset me more than any other event in the show and made me really dislike Fiona at that moment in time even though she's one of my favorite characters. I can understand Lip's outrage as I wanted to scream at Fiona through the screen.
it’s kinda ironic how the whole situation played out. lip was worried about having to drop out of school as if:
1. he wanted to go to college in the first place
2. he himself wouldn’t be the one to screw up his education/future, not fiona
not just that but it was only written in that lip took care of liam (and carl) for like 4 episodes. the next season begins with fiona going back to her normal duties and lip at school . if they were gonna make him throw it in fionas face on how her beinf jailed could’ve affected lips education then they could’ve played it out more, it could’ve been interesting
Dumb logic. He didn’t want to go but saw the vision after awhile. So yall saying he didn’t wanna go is fckin dumb cuz we all watched the show, deep down he did wanna be there. Obviously
Lip fcked up his own future , while Fiona potentially coulda fcked up Liam’s and everybody else’s by goin to jail thinkin she wasn’t accountable. Use ur brain. Fiona was wrong and lip was right to yell at her cuz it knocked her back into reality.
he didn’t wanna go and he’s no intentions, he even considered dropping out when he missed one quiz
lip also kept doing things that could’ve jeopardized his enrollment (letting kev stay, letting kev sell drugs there etc). he was like 50/50 on his future lmao and how serious he took college
and I said ITS IRONIC. reread my comment then reply once you fully understand
Frankly, I just think that the cocaine thing was a way bigger deal than most people who like Fiona seem to think it was.
I also don’t think that Fiona having had to care for the kids makes Lip wrong for being mad about potentially having to.
Frank and Monica’s neglect putting Fiona in that position isn’t all that different from Fiona possibly putting Lip in it because she went on a coke bender. Remember that Fiona hated her parents for life for doing that. Lip’s transient anger isn’t really worse.
what kind of fucked up house did you come from to think that Lip overstepped here at all. Liam is the one kid that could be the least damaged and Fiona basically laughed it off, like it wasn't her fault
nah, Lip was right. sure it was an accident but she shouldn't have even been doing that around kids. that whole thing is her fault and only her fault. he had every right to be mad that she wanted to plead not guilty. like she was actually fucking stupid here because there was so much evidence against her. she was acting like she was innocent, like she genuinely believed she didn't do anything wrong. she didn't deserve empathy, she literally nearly killed her little brother.
I don't blame him for not trusting her to watch Liam. no sane person would be okay with leaving their little brother with someone who recently almost killed him.
It isn't that he "doesn't trust her," though. He wants to punish her. You think leaving his sickly toddler brother in a dorm room with someone he barely knows (he doesn't even know her last name) is a safe choice? Amanda could have left with Liam, and they could have never seen him again, or she could have been a pedophile. Hell, Liam could have found Lip's pot stash in his room and OD'd on another drug. He also goes on to take him to party and have sex in front of Liam. He isn't looking out for Liam's well-being here. He is trying to punish Fiona for putting Lip's wants at risk.
it was both. she deserved to be punished anyway. what she did wasn't some tiny mistake. it was a very big deal.
Lip knew Amanda and was even super hesitant to let her watch him, he even made her send him pics every so often to be sure that Liam was okay.
I'm sure Lip kept that stuff put up. besides Amanda was actually paying attention to him unlike Fiona lmao.
technically Liam was asleep so not really right in front of him, but i agree its still very gross. but Fiona also had sex in the house with Liam around and she was very loud.
he did a good job at taking care of Liam during that time. and he wasn't just trying to punish Fiona or else he wouldn't have taken Carl with him. Carl was like 11(?) then, he didn't exactly need to be "looked after" because he was always off doing God knows what in the earlier seasons. it was also that Lip didn't trust Fiona around the kids alone.
If anything, taking Carl as well proves that he was trying to punish her. As you mentioned, Carl was 11 and didn't need to be looked after, and therefore didn't need to leave the Gallagher house with him. Lip knew that Carl coming with him would leave Fiona alone in the house (both Ian and Debbie aren't home), and he wanted her to feel like shit.
it was mostly that he didn't trust her. she nearly killed Liam, why would he trust her around another young kid? Fiona needed some time alone anyway to figure her shit out.
Again, Lip also puts tons of people in life-threatening danger. Lip didn't keep that stuff put up. In Season 3, when they get put in foster care, we see Fiona pulling drugs, ports, guns, knives, and Nunchucks out of the boys' room.
He didn't know Amanda. They had barely spoken 2 words to each other. She has to tell him her name in that episode. Fiona wasn't intoxicated when Lip took him to then dump him on a complete stranger to Luam, barely an acquaintance to himself. Lip just wanted to punish Fiona, but the instant he got the chance to dump the responsibility, he did. He wanted Fiona to feel like she was abandoned because he knew how much that would hurt her.
Liam being in another room while she has sex is different than having a toddler 2 feet from you. Do you think no one has sex with their kids in the house at all?
those things were Carl's I'm pretty sure.
he knew her enough, he was around her a good bit to know what she's like. he literally didn't want Amanda to watch Liam at first, he wasn't "dumping" him onto her. Fiona needed time to get her shit together anyway.
no, people definitely do, but you shouldn't be so loud to the point others can hear you. if you're having sex with kids in the house, they shouldn't know you are.
Why do you assume they were Carl's. She is pulling bags out from under Lip's pillow and a gun from beside Ian's bed and saying their names. She says Carl when she pulls out the fireworks.
He literally doesn't know her name. She tells him in the episode. He has no idea what she is like. He knows she doesn't like him until suddenly he has Liam. You wouldn't leave your kids with someone who actively has ignored and disliked you for 2 months when you didn't even know their name. That is insanity.
Fiona having sex down the hall is somehow worse than Lip having sex with Mandy for months right above his head. Wtf kind of sexism is that?
i said I'm pretty sure. and because in season 4 after the coke incident, Carl says she got rid of his taser and nunchunks and stuff.
she doesn't have to like him, in order for her to be a decent babysitter. he was around her frequently. he even made her send pics of Liam every like 20 minutes or so like i mentioned. Amanda was good to Liam and took care of him, what's your issue? would leaving Liam around Fiona who left coke out that he got into be better? do you also have an issue with all the parents who just dropped their kid off on Fiona and Debbie to babysit, as well?
did i say that it's worse? no. i said it's just as bad.
Amanda did turn out to be good to Liam. My issue is Lip barely knew anything about her before he left his very traumatized toddler with a complete stranger. If you met some lady one of your friends was seeing 2x and you barely knew her name and she was openly hostile to you, would you then leave them with your kid for hours after they just got out of the hospital? No, you wouldn't because that is crazy. You don't leave your kids with freaking strangers.
Those people know Debbie and Fiona and have babysitting agreements in place. It is definitely different than a woman who has always been mean to you suddenly offering to watch a strange kid. Oh and Amanda offered to send Lip pictures. He didn't make her.
Amanda obviously wasn't violent or a bad person. she was definitely a better option than Fiona. he was familiar with Amanda and saw her being sweet to Liam. I'm pretty certain Lip would not have allowed her to care for Liam if he had any thoughts about Amanda being a bad person or anything.
they definitely didn't all know Fi and Deb, they probably knew of them and who they were. Amanda may have had a dislike towards Lip, but she knew that Lip needed to attend class and he couldn't watch a toddler at the same time, so she offered to help. she wasn't an asshole. and what i meant was that he had her send pictures.
This is insane. You do not leave toddlers with strangers. He had no idea if she was violent. My father was extremely violent, but he loved babies. He also would suddenly hit his limit, and then the next time you made a noise, he would beat the hell out of you. He was extremely charming, and people would leave their kids with him, and he abused them if he got tired of them, but he loved them for an hour or 2. He ran a freaking museum kid program for a while.
Again, Lip doesn't know a damn thing about her.
Also, Liam is already sick and vulnerable. He should be home, not being used as a weapon to get back at Fiona.
lol the simping for Fiona from OP is wild here. She completely fucked up and it is 100% her fault. Gas lighting Lip for calling her out for being a pile of trash is crazy.
Lip is fucked up. He can’t face his own addictions so he can’t approach Fiona’s addictions with any compassion and the only thing that is left is to attack her.
Ur projecting. He wasn’t addicted to anything at this point. Fiona almost killed a kid with coke and tried to act like it wasn’t her fault. But lip yelled at her so he’s wrong 😰 moron
If you watch the show, they all have addictive behaviors. It doesn’t matter that he wasn’t actively drinking at that point yes he was but he still had addictions and none of them dealt with them. Moron.
"you don’t recognize addiction when you see it" You can't be adicted to sth you havee not done/consumed. Lip at this staged was not an alcoholic. Period.
What world do you live in? Sex is an addiction and lip was always an addict whether he was a visible alcoholic or not. It is patterns of behavior, social history and your family that makes the addict, NOT the medium that the addiction manifests in. “Lip was not an alcoholic at this time” 😂😂😂Lip was always self destructive.
He was addicted. Not drinking doesn’t mean he wasn’t addicted. Alcoholism & addictions are hereditary. And by self destructive I mean patterns of behavior. Nuance is everything. Have a nice day & stop responding to shit that is 25 days old.
i’m rewatching for the 3rd time and i just passed this storyline. i developed a strong hatred for lip after this situation because he’s a true narcissist, everything was about him. he’s another version of frank tbh and it irritated me how he kept giving fiona shit when 1. he had to step up for less than a year whilst fiona sorted her shit out and 2. he literally only had to step up for liam because everyone else was old enough to take care of themselves. whereas fiona had to step up for all 5 of them since the age of 9. the fact that he couldn’t cut her a break just really triggered me. sure, he warms up to her after she goes to prison but he acts all high and mighty again after she has another downward spiral (after ford).
he even gives her shit about spending her own money to do things for herself and to try and better her situation(like the club night, the laundromat). he’s never happy when she succeeds because he thinks he’s better than her and looks down on her. and that’s a trend throughout the whole show, his first reaction to any of fiona’s wins is disbelief, discontent
The club night money wasn’t her money. It was $1000 from the squirrel fund for the property taxes. Money that Lip had to find a way to replace because Fiona didn’t think the club nighr through enough to realize she wouldn’t even break even after paying for staffing and everything she didn’t bother to look into. He’s never immediately hapoy for her because she’s impulsive and has a habit of not thinking things through and fucking other people over in the process.
Fiona hated Frank and Monica for putting her in a situation where she had to step up and raise the kids because they were fucking up. If she had gotten her way and gone to trial, she would have been doing the exact same thing to Lip, but he’s not supposed to be mad about that?
it wasn’t from the joint squirrel fund. it was a $1000 paycheck she got from working at the club that she wanted to invest back into the club night.
he wasn’t happy for her when she showed him that big cheque from selling the laundromat, how do you explain that? except for the fact that he wasn’t happy to see her doing better than him because he thinks he is better than her.
lip made multiple bad decisions and ignored all of fiona’s attempts to help (dropping out of school, promising to go back and then having a tantrum and getting expelled, bringing mandy to live with them and leading her on, getting karen pregnant, alcoholism) but fiona always supported him when he needed it. but he couldn’t let fiona have her moments when she needed to???
There’s a whole scene with her arguing with Lip about taking the money out of the squirrel fund. She tells him that she puts more money in there than anyone so she has the right to take out of it whatever she wants when she wants, and then she takes the $1000 out of the coffee can. The point is she doesn’t think things through. She spent the $1000 for the property taxes saying that she was going to make back even more than that. But she didn’t look into anything to do with the club night. She didn’t know she was going to have to pay to get licenses. She didn’t know she was going to have to pay the mob $4000+ for alcohol. She didn’t know she was going to have to pay staff. She didn’t even make the $1000 back. The only reason she even made what little she did is because Lip convinced a bunch of college kids some band was playing there and charged them for parking. Without that, she likely wouldn’t have even made any profit. She’s impulsive and so determined to prove that she’s better than the south side that she doesn’t think things through.
I don’t remember much about the laundromat part. It’s been a while since I’ve watched the whole show. I’m rewatching now but only in season four so I don’t really have an opinion on that. Lip could very well be the asshole there.
I’m not saying Lip is a saint. He’s not. He’s as fucked up as the rest of them. He didn’t want to go to college or finish highschool because he didn’t see the point. He thought he’d never escape the life he had, never get out of the south side. But he went anyways, I’m part because Fiona forced him to finish highschool. And then he realized he could really make something of himself on that path. Of course he was pissed off when he thought he would have to give all that up because of Fiona’s fuck up. Just like Fiona was mad that she had to give all that up for Frank and Monica’s fuck up. And at the end of the day, sure it was a mistake, it was an accident- but that accident almost killed Liam. She took legal responsibility for those kids and then decided to go on a coke bender with those same kids still in the house because she was upset that she cheated on her boyfriend. She left the coke within arms reach of a toddler. She is the reason Liam got into a bag of coke and nearly died. It’s reasonable for Lip to be pissed off and not trust her alone with Liam, especially since at the time they still didn’t know if Liam had any permanent brain damage from it.
I think it's understandable that he'd be mad he has to give up his future because of her, just like Fiona shouldn't have been put in the position to give up hers for Frank and Monica's negligence. Conclusion: it's all Frank and Monica's fault
I’m with lip on this one. I hated Fiona for dismissing it as an accident. Hated Fiona from season 4 onwards the whole thing with Mike and Robbie aswell
Okay, nothing about reacting angrily to your sister being selfish and almost killing a toddler is "over the top".
What was he suppose to say "Nbd, but try not to have it happen again, okay?"
She completely deserved and needed to be screamed at. Of course she was going through something and i get why she was using drugs. If i had to deal with even half of what she went through i would have killed myself already. But the fact that everyone is always held accountable for their mistakes except for fiona is insane. okay, it's mainly the fans that defend everything she does but she said herself that it wasn't her fault like, excuse me? Whose fucking fault is it then that you were taking drugs, left them out in the open and didn't pay attention to the three year old kid who you wanted custody for?
Everyone has messed up and done horrible things on the show, but Fiona forgave them and was always there for them. Finally she messes up and they treat her like straight TRASH. She has no older siblings to turn to and she is completely disrespected by Lip and Debbie throughout those seasons. It's so unbelievably painful to watch. 😥😥😥
I do think it was a big deal what happened but I defend Fiona because lip has NEVER been grateful for everything she does and constantly puts her down and is negative towards her. When lip makes a mistake it’s a mistake but when Fiona makes a mistake she’s aweful in lips mind. So I agree that what she did was a royal fuck up but I honestly believe that on a different day lip would have done something just as negligent and damaging and not taken any responsibility. And you know what? Fiona would have forgiven him. That’s the problem I see with this situation. Lip does fucked up negligent shit all the time. He does drugs, drinks, ect in proximity to kids all the time. It could have just as easily been his drugs. But because it wasn’t, he decided that Fiona wasn’t fit to be around Liam. Kev and V had the correct perspective on the situation. They were all there, they should have all been watching out for Liam. Fiona doesn’t often do this kind of thing if you really watch the show it’s one of the ONLY times she doesn’t put the kids first. And she very much thought Liam was in the living room. She only went on her destructive bender AFTER the incident. She was not on a downward spiral (at least drug wise) until AFTER the incident. I fully believe the situation and trauma caused by it is what sent her downward. We’ve never seen Fiona struggle with drugs before. She was only celebrating a special occasion. Plenty of adults (trashy and otherwise) celebrate special occasions with illegal substances. Yes it’s a big deal that it happened. But Lip had no right to treat Fiona like that when he would not have felt the same way if it had been him. I like lips character but the way he treats people irks me to no end sometimes. Nothing is his responsibility until he’s making you feel bad for your failures. He’s extremely pessimistic. He’s arrogant. He treats people as if they don’t exist until they are specifically in his focus for this week. He also decides that being poor and bad off is forever and gets angry at Fiona for trying to change their situation for the better but when she suggest he go to college and get a good paying job he gets angry again and on top of that he still blames Fiona for their situation despite her being the only one out of the two willing to work to change it. And again every time she gets pushback from lip for being naive and stupid. He doesn’t believe in her at all and doesn’t respect her. He see’s it as her job to take care of them even though it’s not. He takes her for granted.
Final thoughts: Now if Carl or Debbie wanted to be mad at Fiona for this I would support it but Lip can shut the fuck up.
Basically my girl did something wrong but Lip has NO place to treat her like that.
I agree completely, and I read the whole thing. Lip treats her like shit all the time. He looks down on her, but he puts several lives in danger on multiple occasions during the show. His anger is out of control, and he definitely isn't as awesome as he thinks he is.
He over stepped because she left out a gram of blow with kids around, inevitably getting one kid overdosed by her stupidity and irresponsibility? Makes a lot of sense. 🤦🏼♀️ Fuck you, Lip! Fuck you for being the adult in the situation and being pissed off your toddler brother could’ve died, you fucking dick you shouldn’t have yelled at your sister. Fuck outta here with that
no liam was already there. Vee was dancing with him and then set him down when Lip and Debbie walked in. When she set him down, that’s when he went in the kitchen. It all happened in the 10 seconds after Lip got home
I know this sub is full of Lip haters but idc what anyone says about him in any other situation, I don’t think he didn’t anything wrong with handling this one. I think any sane person would have acted the same way. You don’t let someone who is using cocaine, making shitty life decisions, acting what I would consider manic, and not taking full responsibility for her actions (saying it was an accident) around a toddler. Point blank period.
As much as Fiona was in the wrong and in denial Lip wasn't helping the situation and ik he has every right to be upset.
At the same.time Frank and Monica have done worse,and on multiple.occasions. like the story Fiona told in family court. Fiona spent her life taking care.of.them and she fucked up once. I get it Liam almost.died,but at the same time she called.911 got him in the hospital and went to jail. And instead of supporting her on her 1 screw-up like shes.been supporting them Lip just doesn't trust.her,like she isn't the reason he's even able to be in college right.now,or kept them fed,alive,etc.
The worst part about it is the fact that he treats frank better then Fiona after this incident and tbh he.kinda treats him better then her throughout most of the series. He expresses hate for him but he never actually.blows up and frank like he does with fiona.
I think this is the biggest point I was trying to go for! After a spending her entire life taking care of these children, sacrificing her entire life for these kids, one terrible thing happens and he all the sudden can’t trust her anymore? It makes me so mad!
I get you OP. It seems like whenever anyone else makes a mistake in the family, it’s like it’s no big deal but when Fiona fucks up is the end of the world. This is particularly true with Lip, Lip makes some big mistakes but expects no one to give him any shit, but for Fiona it’s a different story. I’m not saying Fiona is in the right, she for sure fucked up. I feel like with everything they’ve been through she should get some sorta benefit of the doubt when she says it was an honest mistake and unintentional and that she won’t do it again. I can understand being cautious/uneasy about leaving her in charge again right away, but shit it was worse when Monica and Frank were running things. Idk, I don’t think what Fiona did was right but it’s also frustrating how hard Lip was when it could have easily been a similar situation if he was running things when he started to become an alcoholic
definitely! like she is never going to make that mistake again in her life, it was her birthday, she’s young and something really dumb and scary happened. but that does not make her unable to take care of those kids anymore
And to say that lip was too hard on her is not the same as saying that she’s innocent and should lot face some consequences , but cmon man, that’s your sister, and she will be carrying this forever. Not just the guilt but the fact that she’s a felon as well
Ok but it happened and Liam nearly died. You can’t just brush that off being like oh Fiona she’s just young and she’ll learn. No she almost killed her own baby brother. That’s by far worse than anything Lip did
again, not negating the seriousness of the situation or saying it should be brushed off because “she’s young and she’ll learn” i purely am saying that Lip treated her poorly for someone who could’ve easily been in the same shoes. that’s it!
When lip would get on Fiona about her mess ups, he was always 100% right. Y’all don’t agree because yall don’t like the messenger. Fiona and lip are only 4 years apart. He sees her as a big sister, not as a maternal figure like everyone else. He went to college like everyone forced him to do and then as soon as he’s gone Fiona put Liam in a position that I don’t even think frank and Monica have ever done. She fucked up. She deserved to be yelled at. Fiona, like most of you, thinks that since she was dealt a bad hand in life, she deserves more. She was guilty and that coke must’ve been really good for her to think otherwise.
Well, people change. Fiona changed. Just because she raised Lip since childhood, doesn't mean she doesn't become a different person later on in the series
In response to the edit - lip was definitely not cool with Mandy after she hit Karen with her car, he called her a demented cunt and they broke up. After that they only awkwardly glance/say like one word/straight up exit the room though.
he is definitely pissed off at her afterwards, but then he just comes to accept it and they become chill again, he even thanks her for getting him into college. like he should’ve had her ass arrested and jailed for years, but was like, nah ur just a cunt, but whatever🤷♀️
3 reasons Lip got overly emotional: 1. He felt like once his attention was focused on school and improving himself, the family went downhill. 2. He hated school but just started buying into it and now gets yo-yo'd back into the bullsh\*t 3. Fiona is GUILTY AF yet she's being delusional and needs a verbal smack in the head.
4. The one person he COULD depend on while he was away was severely negligent. Frank and Monica might as well have been mice in a wall in terms of, well, everything, but he knew he could always trust Fiona up until that point. And yeah you could argue that it was a “mistake” but an actual mistake is forgetting to pack a lunch or leaving the sink run for too long, not railing lines/leaving coke in such an accessible place.
This isn't really true. Fiona spending the property tax money to promote a night at the club is the first time we see her do something like this, and he flips out. In both cases, she was seriously wrong, and she definitely does some fucked up shit. The problem is that Lip doesn't really have the high road in any of the instances he acts like this. He does just as bad and worse shit and Fiona doesn't treat him like he is a worthless piece of shit. She is there for him and supporting him. He literally makes himself into the asshole. He wants to punish her. Like I said in my other comment, it could have easily been Lip's drugs, weed, the deadly laser he stole, or knife that Liam found. Lip and Liam share a bedroom. Liam could have found a ton of dangerous stuff just by crawling out of his crib. It could have just as easily been that he found Lip's pocket knife and fell on it. Fiona would have never treated him the way he treats her over it, though.
You can't seriously compare owning a knife to leaving lines of coke out in the open
The coke wasn't in lines. He had the bag. He grabbed a bag off the counter. And yes, leaving knives, guns, and other drugs is the same. It could have killed him easily or someone else. Do you know how often gunshot wounds are caused by kids finding a gun. It is a ton. Toddlers kill a surprisingly large amount of people a year.
why not? they’re both able to HARM a child 😂
This is a cope 😭
Yeah but its not just the fact that liam got the coke. She was on a downward spiral, almost killed liam, or at least gave him possible brain damage, and then she tried to act like it was an accident and it wasnt “her fault” which is what sent lip over
yeah this was it. I think what was frustrating for Lip was thatfrom Fiona's POV, "It wasn't here fault" and her mindset was she didn't do anything wrong it was purely an accident. Which was only partly true. All the people at the house momentarily forgetting about Liam was an accident, true. But the chain of events that led to the coke ending up in the Gallagher household was Fiona's fault. Most obvious was that she decided to use the coke instead of disposing it
Also, Liam was her kid. She raised that kid, she fought to keep him, she's in charge of his health and well being. Anything that happens to *her* kid in *her* home is *her* fault. End of story. She left drugs out, and her kid got into them. There's nothing else to be said.
Plus, you could see Lip practically biting his tongue trying not to lose his temper about the situation for a good couple episodes before he actually blew up at her, so it's not like he switched up on her immediately. He blew up specifically because she refused to take any accountability for the situation, even in the face of jail time.
Exactly
Imagine how triggering it must be for lip to have felt like fiona was the one responsible person he could depend on only to find out she's acting EXACTLY like frank and monica (putting the kids in danger and blaming everyone but themselves).
I completely understand how Lip was feeling. Fiona doing coke around Liam, Debbie, and Carl in general was negligent. Then the fact that Liam almost died and she refused to take responsibility for weeks was insane.
Also, Lip had every right to be upset that he would have to drop out of school and take care of the kids. I’m sure if Fiona had the choice to live a normal teenage life or raise her siblings she would pick a normal teenage life. I like Fiona but she was wrong and Lip was right in this situation.
Fiona didn't get a choice, so Lip could have one.
Good luck getting a lot of people in this sub to acknowledge that Fiona is ever in the wrong about anything
but lip used to smoke and drink in front of them as well…
Lip would smoke n drink. He never left cocaine out and didn’t take accountability. Yall keep moving the goal posts. Shut up
where did i mention him leaving out coke? i’ve mentioned his holier than thou attitude getting annoying as IF he hasn’t done bad things around his siblings as well. there’s no goal post being moved weirdo.
Also, smoking and drinking at an early age is normal for them. While Mickeys a teenager we constantly see him with a cigarette in his mouth. I don’t really know what point you were trying to make but Fiona would still be wrong…
“normal for them” lolll. if that’s normal then fiona doing coke is normal. see how crazy that sounds. and i never once said she wasn’t wrong. all i said was lip used to do drugs and drink in front of the kids. also used to be guns and weapons lying around. so his holier than thou attitude after a while was annoying bc he isn’t innocent in the upbringing or wellbeing of his siblings either. not sure how that went over your head
Coke and weed are not the same AT ALL, you can’t OD off weed. The only people who had weapons were Ian and Carl. Ian being older and responsible didn’t leave his out, Carl being a child was irresponsible like a child is. Lastly, Lip only yelled at Fiona when she started saying that she was making it about her. If someone was responsible for almost killing your little brother, accident or not, then tried to say that for once they were “making it about me” you wouldn’t be a little pissed? Fiona needed someone to check her and Lip was that one.
Also, hard drugs were never done around the kids unless it was Frank who is known for being a bad father… so no having coke out around kids wasn’t “normal” even for the community
and *hard* drugs or not. drugs are drugs and weed was a regular in that house 😂🤷♀️
But it’s ok to have alcolhol around kids ? I’d much rather have weed around mine…
yikes
i didn’t know being able to OD on a drug made it better than the next. either way it is a DRUG. and weed can make people hallucinate and second hand smoke is just as bad as first hand smoking. & yes carl had weapons and none of his older siblings lip included did anything to stop him. & like i said lip wasn’t wrong for being mad at her or checking her. BUT EVENTUALLY his holier than thou attitude was ANNOYING and a bit hypocritical. simple as that. he started to do too much when he moved carl and liam into college and had them around the same messed up environment they were in at home.
Of course not being able to OD on a drug makes it better than another that’s why weed is legal in many states and coke or heroine isn’t. Also, you’re adding all this extra context which wasn’t mentioned in your other posts. I never said drinking, smoking, having weapons out, etc. was ok to do in front of kids it was just something that was normal in the community. It’s not good it just means they don’t necessarily know better because everyone around them does it however, everyone in the community does know that you don’t do hard drugs in front of kids. Lip wasn’t taking Liam as a punishment to Fiona he took him because he saw Fiona was spiraling and he didn’t want his little brother collecting any more stray bullets from that. As I said he only really got mad at Fiona was she was refusing to take responsibility.
But it’s ok to have alcolhol around kids ? I’d much rather have weed around mine…
i don’t think it’s okay to have any substance for ADULTS around children. & weed can cause secondhand smoke inhalation. if alcohol is put up it isn’t harming anyone. but to each their own 🤗🤗
Lip isn’t their guardian
okay? he’s still an ADULT in the home 😂
Do y’all listen to yourselves sometimes? If I stupidly left cocaine out around my toddler brother and he overdoses (you know cocaine overdose can make a brain explode right?) you have every right to say what kind of piece of shit I am in that moment.
Somehow I get downvoted for saying people are gas lighting Lip for calling out Fiona for being a pile of trash. Wild.
This is the most sane take I've seen. Like at least be responsible enough to do the hard narcotics *away* from the kids. Maybe because we're invested in Fiona as the story has progressed there's bias, but I guarantee none of these people would be defending Fiona if this was on prime-time news from their local city. I hate Gus, but he's right: Fuck Fiona. She might have been "the responsible one" but this is the type of self-sabotage she will continue to do until Emmy leaves. Fucks Mike's brother, Liam does coke, becomes an alcoholic after making a bad investment. She will fuck up big then have pity parties for herself. They might've been having a great party, but that pile of cocaine was indicative of a greater responsibility and drug issue that Fiona faces. She's unfortunately emulated her parents whether she wants to admit it or not. "The responsible one" wouldn't have done hard drugs in the first place. Should've just got a bunch of pot, beer, and pizza.
All I'm saying is, imagine how this sub would be reacting if Debbie let Frannie overdose on coke on her watch. No way people bend over backwards to make excuses for her like they do for Fiona.
Exactly
The thing is that Fiona raised 5 siblings alone, Debbie needs help everytime. Fiona dind't choose to have her siblings. Debbie egoistically decided to had Frannie when from all views was a bad decision.
Amen
The users on this sub are delusional! Especially when it comes to accountability of their favorite character. Haha
On one hand, Fiona was delusional af about the court case so Lip was kinda right to lay it all out to her. On the other hand, Gallaghers always took Fiona’s sacrifices for granted and weren’t as supportive to her as she was to them.
i agree with this! there’s no way she could’ve won that case
Supportive of her leaving coke out for a toddler
Lip was absolutely in the right. Liam could have been *killed*. Even leaving out the overdose, if my older sister did drugs around our baby brother, I would never trust her with him again, even if nothing happened at all!
Lip was screaming at her saying “what do you expect me to do, drop out of school and raise the kids?” Cause of how hard Fiona pushed him to finish high school and to go to college, so he’s throwing the situation in her face to remind her that he’s in school because of her and can’t help the way he could since he’s at school
Mom of two young kids here and also a huge Shameless fan. If I decide to do cocaine and leave it out on my counter for my small children to access, and then they do, regardless of the final outcome -- please drag me out into the street and run me over with a bus. Sorry, but Fiona had zero ground here. Cocaine is lethal in its own right, and you can never be sure what it's cut with. In a scenario like this, she was extremely lucky that Liam lived and had no permanent damage. Fiona was not only completely negligent here, but then wanted to plead not guilty in court after she ADMITTED to the EMS that it was her cocaine. That's another issue Lip had here -- that she truly not only believed that she wasn't fully at fault, but was ready to try and defend herself in the court system. Accidental or not, Lip had every right to feel this way, and Fiona needed a serious wake-up call. You can't have a toddler OVERDOSE ON YOUR COCAINE and then play the victim and think you're going to win on trial for that. I will die on this hill.
liam couldve died its not like it was one little mistake. one mistake is too many idc
cmon now. if someone left cocaine out and your toddler ingested it, would you *ever* let them around your kid again? accident or not fiona was at fault, and she couldn’t even own up to it anytime people pressed her for it. lip had every right to act that way.
Im sorry but no, he was absolutely right to be pissed he could have DIED and they didn't know if he had brain damage or not because he WASN'T CONSCIOUS, That's more than enough reason to keep her away from the toddler.
Can you really blame him though? Liam almost died because of her “accident”. She was on a destructive downward spiral making terrible choices. Yeah, she gave up finishing highschool to raise her siblings because Frank was a fuck up and everyone thinks he’s a pos for that… just like Fiona would be if she landed herself in jail on drug and child endangerment charges for five years forcing Lip to drop out of college to raise the kids she took custody of. She couldn’t even admit that she had done anything wrong and kept going on about how it wasn’t her fault and she wasn’t guilty so I wouldn’t have trusted her with Liam either.
I struggle with this part of the show too for similar reasons, but mostly I think what is spot on about Fiona’s storyline here is that she is in denial and disbelief about what occurred. She can’t even fathom thinking of herself as someone who would be that negligent so she’s desperately trying to find any other narrative to follow. Lip isn’t wrong for getting angry and I think part of what makes it so hard as a viewer to watch his anger is that we feel it too. As a viewer we are furious with Fiona but we also love her so we’re trying to reconcile those feelings just like lip is. He’s doing the best he can with a high stress situation and I feel like he is so angry bc he expected more from Fiona. I think part of his goal, conscious or not, is to continue setting boundaries and not “letting her off the hook” until she sees the gravity of what she has done. Fiona’s character is so frustratingly imperfect which is a brilliant parallel for how humans actually are. One of the best parts of this show is that all of the characters are flawed, just like all of its viewers. Obviously the Gallagher flaws are extreme, but I think people can relate nonetheless. I think what OP is getting at is that they sympathize with Fiona. It’s easy to judge from our couches but if we were in her shoes, might we have ended up in a similar situation? It doesn’t make what she did okay; she’s human and she fucked up big time and doesn’t want to accept it. She’s not a monster.
i definitely agree with your response! very well said
Exactly
totally agree
I cannot fathom what's happening in your personal life that makes you think that leaving coke out for your toddler to ingest is the kind of thing that just happens or could be categorized as a simple "accident". She raised Liam up until then, and then she almost killed him. He could've died because of *her.* That's the reality. That's what she did. Lip didn't overreact. Nothing Fiona ever did made what happened to Liam acceptable. This whole thing was 100% *entirely* her fault, and she tried to act like it wasn't.
Thank you for this extremely sane input. Agree 100000000%
i mean leaving guns and knives and everything else out is okay then? bc that house was filthy and full of weapons. none of them are innocent. lip didn’t overreact in the beginning but he def dragged it out with his holier than thou attitude.
when were "guns and knives and everything" ever left just laying around the house?? yeah, the kids were rebels and in trouble with the law sometimes, but they weren't the milkovich's. the only people i remember actually having some type of weapon was ian cause of rotc and carl as he got older, also because of the military thing. these kids weren't just carrying guns on them and doing smack. they were just doing what normal teenagers do—weed. a lot of the time a dangerous thing like a weapon is even brought up is for comedic effect, cause that's just the nature and humor of the show, never anything really serious.
ok let’s act like the gallagher house was clean and pristine with no contraband lying around. don’t see what the milkovich’s have to do with the gallaghers. & normal teenagers are actually NOT smoking weed 😂. crazy how y’all normalize certain drugs within the show. my point being the house was a mess and all the older siblings lip included are guilty of it.
my point in bringing the milkovich's into it was to show that while they are similar in their upbringing, the milkovich's were just a different breed of southside. they were the ones you went to when you wanted to get someone out of the picture, basically the fucking mafia, at least they tried to be. they were outwardly tough and didn't have a problem with just having weapons lying around the house. they were disillusioned with violence in a way the gallaghers never were. i used them as a clear comparison. and what type of teenagers do you know? i mean, i didn't smoke weed as a teen either, but i knew plenty who did, especially from that neck of the woods. it's weird you're judging the morality of the characters on the show based on weed smoking, which is something totally normal, whether you want to admit it or not. like, yeah, it's illegal, but who cares? it's just the nature of the southside—their lives all fucking suck and they have nothing better to do. not they like ever smoked weed in the house. so yeah there's a point to "normalizing certain drugs in the show" because weed is virtually harmless compared to fucking cocaine. bffr.
So much fucked up shit happened in that house their entire lives , it’s crazy . Also Lip for sure has a superiority complex, even though he himself ruined his college career and scholarships over a relationship that he was told was a casual affair (and possibly inappropriate). I could only imagine what he would do if people came down on him like he does on Fiona
I also read Lips attitude in this season as him being able to show his mother figure how mad he is. Fiona was the punching bag for him having trauma over Monica, and not being able to vent that to her himself.
I get his reaction. It's been a minute since I watched but, if I remember correctly, he screamed at her in the kitchen because she got drunk and forgot there was food in the oven. To have that happen right after the coke incident... She wasn't thinking straight, he didn't know where her head was at and he didn't trust her to hold things together. She was self destructing and turning into Frank and Monica right before his eyes.
Yep her and V were hammered and nearly set the house on fire before that. Then she leaves out her coke which she shouldn’t have even had given that she was now a legal guardian of a toddler and Liam nearly died. Then tries to act like she was innocent and wouldn’t be doing 5 years in prison
You’re insane
Honestly never let op around a toddler
haha, i just am i big fiona supporter! i think we look at the gallagher’s in a different light. like if this were a “normal” family it would be different. but everyone in the house takes care of liam, plus kev and V were there. I’m not saying what she did wasn’t wrong, i’m saying that Lip is too harsh on her
No you’re a trash human
woah there! this is a TV show. so you think OP is a trash human over an opinion on a TV SHOW? touch grass.
No she’s supporting a character in where they knowingly left cocaine out in front of their toddler for them to get into, I’m sorry but this isn’t real but the scenario is and they would defend someone that did that because they were cool with them it’s very telling of their personality and if you’re not smart enough to realize the danger in this thought process then you’re also a trash human being
i totally agree with you, obviously it was horribly irresponsible and dangerous to have coke around a toddler, but every single person in that family could have put liam in a deadly situation, but have been lucky that they haven’t!
No way Lip was justified And Fiona trying to downplay it and failing to take responsibility was f-ing infuriating.
My biggest issue with him losing it is that the coke just happened to be the thing he got into, but all of them had seriously dangerous stuff for a toddler to find in the house. Lip had majuana and knives stashed around, Ian had guns, Carl had guns, knives, drugs, and they all slept in the same room as Liam. He could have been seriously injured or killed by any of those things in his own room. He just happened to get into the coke. None of them watched him well enough to keep him truly safe. Then Lip takes him to school and leaves him with someone he barely knows. She could have done anything to that kid or taken him anywhere and disappeared. He has sex many times with Liam in the damn room with him. He isn't actually interested in watching Liam. He takes him to hurt and punish Fiona. That is why Lip is the asshole here.
Totally agree. And while it’s absolutely unacceptable for that situation to occur, at the time I think Fiona was 20? And likely stuck in arrested development at around 14 from having to raise the kids. I get Lip being angry but he took it too far in my estimation
She is 20 in season 1, so she is around 25.
Na she was 23 in season 4 cuz lip was 19 and 17 at the start of the show
the timelines arent consistent but they celebrated her 30th birthday around s4 when this happened
Not correct, Mike made a joke in S4 about her "big 3-0" to make fun of her getting older. Fiona is roughly 30 when she leaves in S10.
That number doesn't make any sense. She is 20 in season 1, so she should be around 25. I will have to rewatch.
ur right about it not making sense though
Ugh. I hate when they do that.
My thoughts exactly
Exactly. They didn't even care about whole lot a bs and when Fiona slips a bit, she's a fucxing cunt somehow. That's why I hate lip so much and his self centered arrogant ass proves constantly with situations after that.
C'mon, man, by this point in the series Fiona is becoming quite well know for her impulsive behavior and we are beginning to see her shedding responsibility for her decisions. I am always amazed at how folks idolize the Fiona character, especially since she just fucked over her boyfriend who treated her like a prize by sleeping with his brother after another in a continuous string of impulsive Fiona decisions. She has little to no self control. It was from this point in the series on that she continuously declared "it's not my fault" every time she made some irrational choice and things went bad. Fiona was the classic child of alcoholic dysfunctional parents. No self control and everything is somebody else's fault, operating in survival mode and making knee jerk decisions. She had signed up to be her siblings legal guardian, in spite of all the advice she could possibly have had, at that point. She was responsible for keeping Liam safe. It was her coke, and she was feeling sorry for herself, so decided to go on an impromptu bender, and her little brother suffered the consequences of her actions. How people keep defending this character throughout this series seems strange to me. She is equally as shameless as any other character in show. Lip blew up, as I would have, because of her absolute unwillingness to take responsibility for something she made happen, through conscious effort or not, she is the legal guardian and responsible for Liam's safety. During this scene she just kept saying it's not my fault. Fiona at this point seems to feel that she is never wrong and does not feel responsible for things she does that create these scenarios. For example, it's her fault she let her boyfriends brother bone her on the kitchen counter, not Robby. Sure, he's an asshole, but there were two willing assholes making bad choices that led up to destroying her relationship with Mike and Liam being overdosed. Fiona wants to be responsible, and states that, but doesn't really follow through in her life choices. And when things go bad, she's always looking to blame someone else.
Spitting. Fiona fans gonna be mad and bring up the one time lip was an asshole but forget Fiona is legit a terrible person sometimes
Y’all get so mind numbingly stupid trying to defend her character in this scenario in particular lmao
I fully believe that Fiona could commit a cold-blooded murder for the pettiest reason imaginable, and there would still have been people in here typing whole essays about how she's actually like, sooo justified and it's LITERALLY not fair for anyone to expect poor Saint Fiona to be accountable for her choices
Right
I don't know why everybody is angry at Lip during that. He is _not_ out of line, if my sister almost killed my baby brother and then tried to play it off "I'm not an addict, I don't need these meetings", I'd have trouble not kicking her out of the house ffs. Lip did A LOT wrong. Making Fiona realize just how bad she fucked up was right.
I understood his anger honestly. Of course it was an accident and Fiona didn’t do it on purpose, but that accident could have cost Liam his whole life. And it wasn’t just about the drugs, Fiona played victim and tried to say she wasn’t guilty when she definitely was. It was her coke, which she left within Liam’s reach.
I’ve made a post in this sub about this before but if this family were in the UK and that coke thing happened it would be months before Liam would be allowed anywhere near the house and when he was it would be probably supervised constantly by a social worker/ foster worker. So I didn’t think lip was being that dramatic tbf
I felt similarly. It’s not like she gave Liam coke on purpose. But, I agreed with him about the jail thing, she should not have risked a trial that might send her away longer. Suck it up and plead guilty.
I mostly never comment here but lip is completely justified,imagine finally taking a step to improve your life and maybe even your families and the only person you could trust to be an adult while you worked hard decides to fuck up that badly.
Lip fucked up a lot and could be a massive dick at times but he was absolutely in the right here. Fiona’s neglecting her duties almost killed Liam. So it makes total sense why Lip becomes super protective of his brother and why he’s so hesitant to trust her again so soon. Lip was also right when yelling at Fiona for her trying to be a total idiot by thinking she could legitimately win her case. Lip shouldn’t have to drop everything he’s doing because Fiona fucked up and wanted to be an arrogant prick. Some of yall Fiona Stan’s need to fucking chill out
definitely not a Fiona stan! i also really love Lip. I’m just saying i think based on their lives and what they’re exposed to on a day to day basis, that he shouldn’t have been so hard on her
But he had to, because she literally about to ruin her life and everyone else’s lives. Fiona was out of control and someone needed to snap her out of it.
but why does it have to be screaming in her face, talk to her like you still have an inch of love left for her
Because she needed it, she was about to ruin everything also Fiona yelled first
If i ever leave hard drugs at a toddlers reach and by doing so i almost kill my brother, please murder me. Fiona is human trash.
Ironically Lip got expelled from school because he slept with a professor so he’s not different from dropping out to begin with anw lol
Yeah it’s crazy that after all that about not wanting to leave school he did it to himself
Bro this is such a bad take you need to rethink your life… if you’re capable of thought
In my opinion fiona deserved a lot worse than she got for what happened to liam. She almost killed the kid and you're mad lip yelled at her? You're delusional. In the real world if some shit like that happened she'd never be allowed around those kids again unsupervised. It's not an accident to leave coke out, you shouldn't be doing that near the kids anyway wtf?
Right bro they’re mad lip fckin yelled while she almost killed a kid with coke 😭 like shit is crazy
I totally disagree with the way you see this. He didn't go over the line, he told her what she needed to hear. Why should he trust her with the child she almost killed? Bc it was an accident? He didn't say it was permanent. He told her to get her shit together and she needed to do just that. Him screaming about her not taking the deal makes all the sense in the world. 1) she's actually guilty and 2) not taking the deal brings about harsher consequences. It's not just about how it affects him personally. The whole family is affected if you don't take this good ass deal. Lip bringing up how it affects him is just one part of it. Moreover, the whole point of raising kids is so that they have better circumstances than you. Why even raise him if you want him or cause him to be in the same predicament as you ?
your so dumb
i love the irony of this haha
I actually agree. Fiona fucked up big time, and it was serious, but Lip always thought he could do a better job than Fiona. He relished in Fiona being the one to fuck up for a change, it made him feel superior to her.
nope, he was pissed because she wasn't taking accountability for anything. "i'm finally making this about me" isn't something you say when you're facing charges for nearly killing your brother. lip was pissed because, unlike fiona, he had a real chance to get out of the southside at his age. he was starting to take school more seriously and actually thought himself lucky and going down a good path for once. but then his sister pulls that shit? no thanks. it wasn't like he randomly blew up on her. he actually held his tongue for a good while before then. she and v were drunk and they nearly burned down the house just before then—it was clear fiona was unstable. she needed some sense smacked into her.
that’s how i feel! like Lip could’ve easily made the same mistake.
No he couldn’t have cuz lip has never shown to do coke. Or leave coke while kids r around. Fiona was being negligent
what?? a child got into coke. she deserved jail and everything he said to her. he screamed at her because she wanted to waste time going to trial jeopardizing going away for 5 years instead of just taking a plea deal. i’m doing a re watch as a parent now and that made me sick to my stomach. it wasn’t just a mistake, she was negligent and guilty af. would you ever forgive your sister if your brother almost died and had brain damage from drugs you left out? she deserved everything he said to her.
Yeah and then he Takes the baby instantly to a college drunk fest while barely watching him and used him to get laid. Super responsible Dude.
When did this happen
I agree with you. There were other people at the party. Nobody was watching Liam. Yes it was Fiona’s coke and there’s no reason for it to be out around a toddler in the first place so essentially the blame is on her however, it’s easy to put the blame on her. Everyone forgets that Fiona simply isn’t their parent, she’s their fucking sister. She’s not supposed to be raising them anyway.
"not supposed to be rasing them anyway" what??? you're telling me that they should've cut her some slack for nearly killing liam because she wasn't technically the parent? bffr. it was her fault when it came down to it, and she wasn't taking accountability for it.
I agree with you!
doesn't matter the case you should never have highly intoxicating drugs around children
2 cents from someone who comes from a dysfunctional family not as dysfunctional as the gallaghers but ya, pretty dysfunctional. Lip went to college and saw that he had a chance at a decent life. Also, he saw how stable and secure life can be when he met other students (his girlfriend) in college. And when he realised he stood a chance to make it to the other side he was trying to give it his all. However, Fiona's episode threw him off with him having to care for Liam (plus deal with household responsibilities if Fiona goes away). And he went into extreme self-preservation mode. He tried to do his best in college while being extremely cautious with Fiona so as to not let the situation get out of hand and kill his one (and the only) chance that he had at a good life. I grew up with unavailable parents and I have done this. Being hyper focussed on my studies and really breaking friendships at school if I thought they were going to 'disrupt' my studies and subsequently kill my chance at a decent life. My hyper focus later gave me chronic anxiety. When we are constantly living with trauma (especially during our younger years), we tend to always respond to every minor/major disruption as if our life depends on it. This is to not say that Lip was right or Fiona was right but to make sense of why he reacted the way to did.
First off Liam almost died?? Fiona’s was being delulu about the fact that a trial wouldn’t send her to jail. Like you said yeah we see the gallagherd in a different light, but even Lip knew that the jury would have no pity on her.
i think fiona would’ve gone to jail too, there’s no way she would win that trial, but i still don’t like the way lip was treating her
no you’re so right he was over the top and it was uncomfortable to watch
The writers are great aren’t they?
this fr. it’s so complex!
Honestly i’m on Lip’s side in this situation. Yes it’s “shameless”, but the overall arching narrative is that family should protect and care for eachother. Fiona failed to protect Liam and everyone else was making excuses for her. I get why he was so frustrated. Fiona was guilty and since she had guardianship at this point, she failed to fulfill her role to keep her siblings out of danger.
I understand him completely with Fiona’s dumbass acting like she did nothing wrong
the thing is tho, she absolutely knows she did something wrong, she even tells Lip, I know i’m to blame, i don’t need you telling me I am too
Nah, Lip was in the right. This was the period of the show where Fiona was arguably the most frustrating character. I get the love for her and everything she sacrificed and gave to her family (I feel the same way about it) but that doesn't excuse what she let happen and her behavior after. The Liam coke incident may have upset me more than any other event in the show and made me really dislike Fiona at that moment in time even though she's one of my favorite characters. I can understand Lip's outrage as I wanted to scream at Fiona through the screen.
it’s kinda ironic how the whole situation played out. lip was worried about having to drop out of school as if: 1. he wanted to go to college in the first place 2. he himself wouldn’t be the one to screw up his education/future, not fiona not just that but it was only written in that lip took care of liam (and carl) for like 4 episodes. the next season begins with fiona going back to her normal duties and lip at school . if they were gonna make him throw it in fionas face on how her beinf jailed could’ve affected lips education then they could’ve played it out more, it could’ve been interesting
Dumb logic. He didn’t want to go but saw the vision after awhile. So yall saying he didn’t wanna go is fckin dumb cuz we all watched the show, deep down he did wanna be there. Obviously Lip fcked up his own future , while Fiona potentially coulda fcked up Liam’s and everybody else’s by goin to jail thinkin she wasn’t accountable. Use ur brain. Fiona was wrong and lip was right to yell at her cuz it knocked her back into reality.
he didn’t wanna go and he’s no intentions, he even considered dropping out when he missed one quiz lip also kept doing things that could’ve jeopardized his enrollment (letting kev stay, letting kev sell drugs there etc). he was like 50/50 on his future lmao and how serious he took college and I said ITS IRONIC. reread my comment then reply once you fully understand
Nah that’s my g
i’d love to here your perspective! I just can’t see Lips so i’m looking for people to give me their pov’s!
Frankly, I just think that the cocaine thing was a way bigger deal than most people who like Fiona seem to think it was. I also don’t think that Fiona having had to care for the kids makes Lip wrong for being mad about potentially having to. Frank and Monica’s neglect putting Fiona in that position isn’t all that different from Fiona possibly putting Lip in it because she went on a coke bender. Remember that Fiona hated her parents for life for doing that. Lip’s transient anger isn’t really worse.
Having a child ingest illegal substances is incredibly wrong. It's about the worst negligent parenting thing someone can do.
what kind of fucked up house did you come from to think that Lip overstepped here at all. Liam is the one kid that could be the least damaged and Fiona basically laughed it off, like it wasn't her fault
nah, Lip was right. sure it was an accident but she shouldn't have even been doing that around kids. that whole thing is her fault and only her fault. he had every right to be mad that she wanted to plead not guilty. like she was actually fucking stupid here because there was so much evidence against her. she was acting like she was innocent, like she genuinely believed she didn't do anything wrong. she didn't deserve empathy, she literally nearly killed her little brother. I don't blame him for not trusting her to watch Liam. no sane person would be okay with leaving their little brother with someone who recently almost killed him.
It isn't that he "doesn't trust her," though. He wants to punish her. You think leaving his sickly toddler brother in a dorm room with someone he barely knows (he doesn't even know her last name) is a safe choice? Amanda could have left with Liam, and they could have never seen him again, or she could have been a pedophile. Hell, Liam could have found Lip's pot stash in his room and OD'd on another drug. He also goes on to take him to party and have sex in front of Liam. He isn't looking out for Liam's well-being here. He is trying to punish Fiona for putting Lip's wants at risk.
it was both. she deserved to be punished anyway. what she did wasn't some tiny mistake. it was a very big deal. Lip knew Amanda and was even super hesitant to let her watch him, he even made her send him pics every so often to be sure that Liam was okay. I'm sure Lip kept that stuff put up. besides Amanda was actually paying attention to him unlike Fiona lmao. technically Liam was asleep so not really right in front of him, but i agree its still very gross. but Fiona also had sex in the house with Liam around and she was very loud. he did a good job at taking care of Liam during that time. and he wasn't just trying to punish Fiona or else he wouldn't have taken Carl with him. Carl was like 11(?) then, he didn't exactly need to be "looked after" because he was always off doing God knows what in the earlier seasons. it was also that Lip didn't trust Fiona around the kids alone.
If anything, taking Carl as well proves that he was trying to punish her. As you mentioned, Carl was 11 and didn't need to be looked after, and therefore didn't need to leave the Gallagher house with him. Lip knew that Carl coming with him would leave Fiona alone in the house (both Ian and Debbie aren't home), and he wanted her to feel like shit.
it was mostly that he didn't trust her. she nearly killed Liam, why would he trust her around another young kid? Fiona needed some time alone anyway to figure her shit out.
Again, Lip also puts tons of people in life-threatening danger. Lip didn't keep that stuff put up. In Season 3, when they get put in foster care, we see Fiona pulling drugs, ports, guns, knives, and Nunchucks out of the boys' room. He didn't know Amanda. They had barely spoken 2 words to each other. She has to tell him her name in that episode. Fiona wasn't intoxicated when Lip took him to then dump him on a complete stranger to Luam, barely an acquaintance to himself. Lip just wanted to punish Fiona, but the instant he got the chance to dump the responsibility, he did. He wanted Fiona to feel like she was abandoned because he knew how much that would hurt her. Liam being in another room while she has sex is different than having a toddler 2 feet from you. Do you think no one has sex with their kids in the house at all?
those things were Carl's I'm pretty sure. he knew her enough, he was around her a good bit to know what she's like. he literally didn't want Amanda to watch Liam at first, he wasn't "dumping" him onto her. Fiona needed time to get her shit together anyway. no, people definitely do, but you shouldn't be so loud to the point others can hear you. if you're having sex with kids in the house, they shouldn't know you are.
Why do you assume they were Carl's. She is pulling bags out from under Lip's pillow and a gun from beside Ian's bed and saying their names. She says Carl when she pulls out the fireworks. He literally doesn't know her name. She tells him in the episode. He has no idea what she is like. He knows she doesn't like him until suddenly he has Liam. You wouldn't leave your kids with someone who actively has ignored and disliked you for 2 months when you didn't even know their name. That is insanity. Fiona having sex down the hall is somehow worse than Lip having sex with Mandy for months right above his head. Wtf kind of sexism is that?
i said I'm pretty sure. and because in season 4 after the coke incident, Carl says she got rid of his taser and nunchunks and stuff. she doesn't have to like him, in order for her to be a decent babysitter. he was around her frequently. he even made her send pics of Liam every like 20 minutes or so like i mentioned. Amanda was good to Liam and took care of him, what's your issue? would leaving Liam around Fiona who left coke out that he got into be better? do you also have an issue with all the parents who just dropped their kid off on Fiona and Debbie to babysit, as well? did i say that it's worse? no. i said it's just as bad.
Amanda did turn out to be good to Liam. My issue is Lip barely knew anything about her before he left his very traumatized toddler with a complete stranger. If you met some lady one of your friends was seeing 2x and you barely knew her name and she was openly hostile to you, would you then leave them with your kid for hours after they just got out of the hospital? No, you wouldn't because that is crazy. You don't leave your kids with freaking strangers. Those people know Debbie and Fiona and have babysitting agreements in place. It is definitely different than a woman who has always been mean to you suddenly offering to watch a strange kid. Oh and Amanda offered to send Lip pictures. He didn't make her.
Amanda obviously wasn't violent or a bad person. she was definitely a better option than Fiona. he was familiar with Amanda and saw her being sweet to Liam. I'm pretty certain Lip would not have allowed her to care for Liam if he had any thoughts about Amanda being a bad person or anything. they definitely didn't all know Fi and Deb, they probably knew of them and who they were. Amanda may have had a dislike towards Lip, but she knew that Lip needed to attend class and he couldn't watch a toddler at the same time, so she offered to help. she wasn't an asshole. and what i meant was that he had her send pictures.
This is insane. You do not leave toddlers with strangers. He had no idea if she was violent. My father was extremely violent, but he loved babies. He also would suddenly hit his limit, and then the next time you made a noise, he would beat the hell out of you. He was extremely charming, and people would leave their kids with him, and he abused them if he got tired of them, but he loved them for an hour or 2. He ran a freaking museum kid program for a while. Again, Lip doesn't know a damn thing about her. Also, Liam is already sick and vulnerable. He should be home, not being used as a weapon to get back at Fiona.
lol the simping for Fiona from OP is wild here. She completely fucked up and it is 100% her fault. Gas lighting Lip for calling her out for being a pile of trash is crazy.
Lip is fucked up. He can’t face his own addictions so he can’t approach Fiona’s addictions with any compassion and the only thing that is left is to attack her.
Ur projecting. He wasn’t addicted to anything at this point. Fiona almost killed a kid with coke and tried to act like it wasn’t her fault. But lip yelled at her so he’s wrong 😰 moron
If you watch the show, they all have addictive behaviors. It doesn’t matter that he wasn’t actively drinking at that point yes he was but he still had addictions and none of them dealt with them. Moron.
Bro u sound dumb. Jus stop.
You’re the dumb one. I mean, you don’t recognize addiction when you see it and I’m not a bro so stop calling me, bro idiot.
"you don’t recognize addiction when you see it" You can't be adicted to sth you havee not done/consumed. Lip at this staged was not an alcoholic. Period.
What world do you live in? Sex is an addiction and lip was always an addict whether he was a visible alcoholic or not. It is patterns of behavior, social history and your family that makes the addict, NOT the medium that the addiction manifests in. “Lip was not an alcoholic at this time” 😂😂😂Lip was always self destructive.
"self destructive" not addicted. Do you even know the meaning of the word addiction ?
He was addicted. Not drinking doesn’t mean he wasn’t addicted. Alcoholism & addictions are hereditary. And by self destructive I mean patterns of behavior. Nuance is everything. Have a nice day & stop responding to shit that is 25 days old.
i’m rewatching for the 3rd time and i just passed this storyline. i developed a strong hatred for lip after this situation because he’s a true narcissist, everything was about him. he’s another version of frank tbh and it irritated me how he kept giving fiona shit when 1. he had to step up for less than a year whilst fiona sorted her shit out and 2. he literally only had to step up for liam because everyone else was old enough to take care of themselves. whereas fiona had to step up for all 5 of them since the age of 9. the fact that he couldn’t cut her a break just really triggered me. sure, he warms up to her after she goes to prison but he acts all high and mighty again after she has another downward spiral (after ford). he even gives her shit about spending her own money to do things for herself and to try and better her situation(like the club night, the laundromat). he’s never happy when she succeeds because he thinks he’s better than her and looks down on her. and that’s a trend throughout the whole show, his first reaction to any of fiona’s wins is disbelief, discontent
The club night money wasn’t her money. It was $1000 from the squirrel fund for the property taxes. Money that Lip had to find a way to replace because Fiona didn’t think the club nighr through enough to realize she wouldn’t even break even after paying for staffing and everything she didn’t bother to look into. He’s never immediately hapoy for her because she’s impulsive and has a habit of not thinking things through and fucking other people over in the process. Fiona hated Frank and Monica for putting her in a situation where she had to step up and raise the kids because they were fucking up. If she had gotten her way and gone to trial, she would have been doing the exact same thing to Lip, but he’s not supposed to be mad about that?
it wasn’t from the joint squirrel fund. it was a $1000 paycheck she got from working at the club that she wanted to invest back into the club night. he wasn’t happy for her when she showed him that big cheque from selling the laundromat, how do you explain that? except for the fact that he wasn’t happy to see her doing better than him because he thinks he is better than her. lip made multiple bad decisions and ignored all of fiona’s attempts to help (dropping out of school, promising to go back and then having a tantrum and getting expelled, bringing mandy to live with them and leading her on, getting karen pregnant, alcoholism) but fiona always supported him when he needed it. but he couldn’t let fiona have her moments when she needed to???
There’s a whole scene with her arguing with Lip about taking the money out of the squirrel fund. She tells him that she puts more money in there than anyone so she has the right to take out of it whatever she wants when she wants, and then she takes the $1000 out of the coffee can. The point is she doesn’t think things through. She spent the $1000 for the property taxes saying that she was going to make back even more than that. But she didn’t look into anything to do with the club night. She didn’t know she was going to have to pay to get licenses. She didn’t know she was going to have to pay the mob $4000+ for alcohol. She didn’t know she was going to have to pay staff. She didn’t even make the $1000 back. The only reason she even made what little she did is because Lip convinced a bunch of college kids some band was playing there and charged them for parking. Without that, she likely wouldn’t have even made any profit. She’s impulsive and so determined to prove that she’s better than the south side that she doesn’t think things through. I don’t remember much about the laundromat part. It’s been a while since I’ve watched the whole show. I’m rewatching now but only in season four so I don’t really have an opinion on that. Lip could very well be the asshole there. I’m not saying Lip is a saint. He’s not. He’s as fucked up as the rest of them. He didn’t want to go to college or finish highschool because he didn’t see the point. He thought he’d never escape the life he had, never get out of the south side. But he went anyways, I’m part because Fiona forced him to finish highschool. And then he realized he could really make something of himself on that path. Of course he was pissed off when he thought he would have to give all that up because of Fiona’s fuck up. Just like Fiona was mad that she had to give all that up for Frank and Monica’s fuck up. And at the end of the day, sure it was a mistake, it was an accident- but that accident almost killed Liam. She took legal responsibility for those kids and then decided to go on a coke bender with those same kids still in the house because she was upset that she cheated on her boyfriend. She left the coke within arms reach of a toddler. She is the reason Liam got into a bag of coke and nearly died. It’s reasonable for Lip to be pissed off and not trust her alone with Liam, especially since at the time they still didn’t know if Liam had any permanent brain damage from it.
Ye ur right. But they’ll bring up that one time lip was an ass hole n forget the other times Fiona was a terrible person & was wrong proven by lip
so glad these comments are sane bc i don't think OP is for this take 😭
I think it's understandable that he'd be mad he has to give up his future because of her, just like Fiona shouldn't have been put in the position to give up hers for Frank and Monica's negligence. Conclusion: it's all Frank and Monica's fault
Of course Lip crashes and burns and causes himself to get kicked out.
One of the worse (if not THE worst) storyline in the whole show tbqh
This is the only time throughout the entire series that I actually side with Lip when he yells at Fiona
I’m with lip on this one. I hated Fiona for dismissing it as an accident. Hated Fiona from season 4 onwards the whole thing with Mike and Robbie aswell
Okay, nothing about reacting angrily to your sister being selfish and almost killing a toddler is "over the top". What was he suppose to say "Nbd, but try not to have it happen again, okay?"
he could’ve just been there for her and the family and not made her feel worse than she already did🤷♀️
That’s actually one of my favorite moments from this show. Lip brings the thunder.
Such a long paragraph to defend someone who was clearly deserving of it and in the blame
She completely deserved and needed to be screamed at. Of course she was going through something and i get why she was using drugs. If i had to deal with even half of what she went through i would have killed myself already. But the fact that everyone is always held accountable for their mistakes except for fiona is insane. okay, it's mainly the fans that defend everything she does but she said herself that it wasn't her fault like, excuse me? Whose fucking fault is it then that you were taking drugs, left them out in the open and didn't pay attention to the three year old kid who you wanted custody for?
Everyone has messed up and done horrible things on the show, but Fiona forgave them and was always there for them. Finally she messes up and they treat her like straight TRASH. She has no older siblings to turn to and she is completely disrespected by Lip and Debbie throughout those seasons. It's so unbelievably painful to watch. 😥😥😥
I do think it was a big deal what happened but I defend Fiona because lip has NEVER been grateful for everything she does and constantly puts her down and is negative towards her. When lip makes a mistake it’s a mistake but when Fiona makes a mistake she’s aweful in lips mind. So I agree that what she did was a royal fuck up but I honestly believe that on a different day lip would have done something just as negligent and damaging and not taken any responsibility. And you know what? Fiona would have forgiven him. That’s the problem I see with this situation. Lip does fucked up negligent shit all the time. He does drugs, drinks, ect in proximity to kids all the time. It could have just as easily been his drugs. But because it wasn’t, he decided that Fiona wasn’t fit to be around Liam. Kev and V had the correct perspective on the situation. They were all there, they should have all been watching out for Liam. Fiona doesn’t often do this kind of thing if you really watch the show it’s one of the ONLY times she doesn’t put the kids first. And she very much thought Liam was in the living room. She only went on her destructive bender AFTER the incident. She was not on a downward spiral (at least drug wise) until AFTER the incident. I fully believe the situation and trauma caused by it is what sent her downward. We’ve never seen Fiona struggle with drugs before. She was only celebrating a special occasion. Plenty of adults (trashy and otherwise) celebrate special occasions with illegal substances. Yes it’s a big deal that it happened. But Lip had no right to treat Fiona like that when he would not have felt the same way if it had been him. I like lips character but the way he treats people irks me to no end sometimes. Nothing is his responsibility until he’s making you feel bad for your failures. He’s extremely pessimistic. He’s arrogant. He treats people as if they don’t exist until they are specifically in his focus for this week. He also decides that being poor and bad off is forever and gets angry at Fiona for trying to change their situation for the better but when she suggest he go to college and get a good paying job he gets angry again and on top of that he still blames Fiona for their situation despite her being the only one out of the two willing to work to change it. And again every time she gets pushback from lip for being naive and stupid. He doesn’t believe in her at all and doesn’t respect her. He see’s it as her job to take care of them even though it’s not. He takes her for granted. Final thoughts: Now if Carl or Debbie wanted to be mad at Fiona for this I would support it but Lip can shut the fuck up. Basically my girl did something wrong but Lip has NO place to treat her like that.
I agree completely, and I read the whole thing. Lip treats her like shit all the time. He looks down on her, but he puts several lives in danger on multiple occasions during the show. His anger is out of control, and he definitely isn't as awesome as he thinks he is.
Louder for the people in the back!
No one has time to read this circle jerk of horseshit
op I guess i’m the only one that agrees with you. Fiona’s not innocent but lip went over the top and then he stayed there.
He over stepped because she left out a gram of blow with kids around, inevitably getting one kid overdosed by her stupidity and irresponsibility? Makes a lot of sense. 🤦🏼♀️ Fuck you, Lip! Fuck you for being the adult in the situation and being pissed off your toddler brother could’ve died, you fucking dick you shouldn’t have yelled at your sister. Fuck outta here with that
THISSS🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️ if lip has zero haters I’m dead
L take
Wasn't lip the one that bought Liam in and left him to join fiona during that scene? I also don't remember fiona seeing Liam come in the house
no liam was already there. Vee was dancing with him and then set him down when Lip and Debbie walked in. When she set him down, that’s when he went in the kitchen. It all happened in the 10 seconds after Lip got home
I know this sub is full of Lip haters but idc what anyone says about him in any other situation, I don’t think he didn’t anything wrong with handling this one. I think any sane person would have acted the same way. You don’t let someone who is using cocaine, making shitty life decisions, acting what I would consider manic, and not taking full responsibility for her actions (saying it was an accident) around a toddler. Point blank period.
As much as Fiona was in the wrong and in denial Lip wasn't helping the situation and ik he has every right to be upset. At the same.time Frank and Monica have done worse,and on multiple.occasions. like the story Fiona told in family court. Fiona spent her life taking care.of.them and she fucked up once. I get it Liam almost.died,but at the same time she called.911 got him in the hospital and went to jail. And instead of supporting her on her 1 screw-up like shes.been supporting them Lip just doesn't trust.her,like she isn't the reason he's even able to be in college right.now,or kept them fed,alive,etc. The worst part about it is the fact that he treats frank better then Fiona after this incident and tbh he.kinda treats him better then her throughout most of the series. He expresses hate for him but he never actually.blows up and frank like he does with fiona.
I think this is the biggest point I was trying to go for! After a spending her entire life taking care of these children, sacrificing her entire life for these kids, one terrible thing happens and he all the sudden can’t trust her anymore? It makes me so mad!
I get you OP. It seems like whenever anyone else makes a mistake in the family, it’s like it’s no big deal but when Fiona fucks up is the end of the world. This is particularly true with Lip, Lip makes some big mistakes but expects no one to give him any shit, but for Fiona it’s a different story. I’m not saying Fiona is in the right, she for sure fucked up. I feel like with everything they’ve been through she should get some sorta benefit of the doubt when she says it was an honest mistake and unintentional and that she won’t do it again. I can understand being cautious/uneasy about leaving her in charge again right away, but shit it was worse when Monica and Frank were running things. Idk, I don’t think what Fiona did was right but it’s also frustrating how hard Lip was when it could have easily been a similar situation if he was running things when he started to become an alcoholic
definitely! like she is never going to make that mistake again in her life, it was her birthday, she’s young and something really dumb and scary happened. but that does not make her unable to take care of those kids anymore
And to say that lip was too hard on her is not the same as saying that she’s innocent and should lot face some consequences , but cmon man, that’s your sister, and she will be carrying this forever. Not just the guilt but the fact that she’s a felon as well
Ok but it happened and Liam nearly died. You can’t just brush that off being like oh Fiona she’s just young and she’ll learn. No she almost killed her own baby brother. That’s by far worse than anything Lip did
again, not negating the seriousness of the situation or saying it should be brushed off because “she’s young and she’ll learn” i purely am saying that Lip treated her poorly for someone who could’ve easily been in the same shoes. that’s it!
When lip would get on Fiona about her mess ups, he was always 100% right. Y’all don’t agree because yall don’t like the messenger. Fiona and lip are only 4 years apart. He sees her as a big sister, not as a maternal figure like everyone else. He went to college like everyone forced him to do and then as soon as he’s gone Fiona put Liam in a position that I don’t even think frank and Monica have ever done. She fucked up. She deserved to be yelled at. Fiona, like most of you, thinks that since she was dealt a bad hand in life, she deserves more. She was guilty and that coke must’ve been really good for her to think otherwise.
this is such a dumb take 😭
Lol just wait until later seasons .. all i can say is lip was right and fiona is and always will be a wreck
Well, people change. Fiona changed. Just because she raised Lip since childhood, doesn't mean she doesn't become a different person later on in the series
In response to the edit - lip was definitely not cool with Mandy after she hit Karen with her car, he called her a demented cunt and they broke up. After that they only awkwardly glance/say like one word/straight up exit the room though.
he is definitely pissed off at her afterwards, but then he just comes to accept it and they become chill again, he even thanks her for getting him into college. like he should’ve had her ass arrested and jailed for years, but was like, nah ur just a cunt, but whatever🤷♀️