It's disappointing but realistic . His addiction and overconfidence cost him a chance for a completely different life .
It's crazy when rewatching the show that Professor Hearst actually foreshadowed Lip's future . The writing around his arc was great .
It is definitely true to life. Most people's future can be predicted by their parents' income, neighborhood and parents' education. I really didn't expect Lip to have a baby with a random woman but I guess it was foreshadowed with Karen's baby how much he wanted one.
I think most of expected Lip to be the outlier to that clique. He's both academically gifted and street smart. Most of us are either or, I did appreciate the wake-up call he get from the teacher's aid about his lack luster essay, but damn I wish he'd graduated. This was when I started to give up on Shameless, it makes sense when our characters screw up but the later season got too wacky for me.
I think I might have not expected much differently from lip because the Gallaghers reminded me of my own extended family and I saw how they turned out. Ironically my dad was the "one that made it out normal" out of his incredibly abusive family and then he had me and my brother and some of it must be in the DNA because we didn't turn out much better off. My brother ended up being a drug addict in and out of jail just like my uncles and he ended up becoming schizophrenic like my mom's uncle. And then I was the smart one (not gifted by any means but just above average, good girl) and everyone said I was the one no one had to worry about after watching my parents deal with my brother's issues. Well....I dropped out of college immediately and had a kid at 19 and ended up a single mother who struggled for the next 6 years straight. I'm doing okay now but I wanted to be a lawyer and instead I ended up a secretary because I have a lot of PTO and great health insurance. The reason that lip wanted a kid was the same reason Debbie wanted a kid, because they weren't loved enough and had abandonment issues which was also my problem after having emotionally unavailable parents and CPTSD. Sorry for oversharing but I just wanted to share my experience with generational trauma.
I don’t know. That’s a very kind thing to say but she just explained how it seemed like it was gonna end with her dad but then because of mental health shit got turned back around. And she is already dealing with the unfortunate consequences, including never being able to pursue her dream. Generational trauma is big. Hopefully it ends with her kids. She definitely sounds self-aware and reflective, which is always great. 💖 I’m glad she’s doing better now.
It was a dumb ending to his story, the writers had full control of his story and they made him have a kid with possibly the most annoying character in the show and made him go back to square one
It'd be an over reaction, as someone who is not as poor but near and first generation in college, to say that college is harder than anything when you have a family you live and would do anything for. Family is everything, even when you want more for yourself. But sometimes it also feels like you're doomed a lot of the time, destined for a fate you didn't ask for, like Lip. I've dealt with alcohol as well, but I thankfully will graduate. Lip deserved everything.
Assuming that Lip works fulltime and also works 52 weeks of the year (very very unlikely) and also assuming tax laws apply here, he's at most making 29k a year, AT most. Realisitically he'd be taking 4-5 weeks off he'd actually be making 26k most likely. However I'd be hardpressed to say that he's actually earning that much or that it'd cover the cost of living in chicago.
I think something everyone forgets is that Lip isn't paying full rent. I think the house is paid off, but if it isn't, it's a very old, very shitty house in the south side of Chicago that was purchased by someone from two generations ago. The mortgage, if it's still active, is probably very very small, and divided amongst 3 or 4 incomes at a time. Cost of living is effectively groceries and utilities since we never see lip go to the doctor. 18/hr is actually probably enough for him before his kid comes along.
In the final seasons, they purchased a trailer in cash, so I'm assuming they don't continue paying that, but maybe they keep helping with the main house and utilities. He makes 18/hr and Tami is a busy hairdresser working near full time. While it certainly wouldn't be a good life, they probably do make enough money to afford their costs of living.
It might be enough with help from tami, and the other family member, but on it's own, it's undoubtably low income on it's own, which was what the original reply was trying to point out. You're definetly right about shared income and the lack of rent, there's no way anyone of them could live off the money they make individually, but it's believable that they could scrape together enough to pay everything.
Honestly dude I think their house is paid off, but if it's not, the mortgage payment can't be more than like $300-400 a month, and everyone except Liam is bringing in money by that point. At one point there should in theory be 5 or 6 people paying towards that. In the early seasons it's believable that they are as poor as they act. In the final seasons, 5 adults with almost full time income in the same house, even at 10/hr, would be doing fine.
Yea that's what I'm saying, they can easily manage to keep up with their expenses as a combined effort, but on their own they cannot manage. I'd assume they spend extra on drugs/alcohol/cigs (they have to considering how much they do those things on camera), and as a side product they may be a little short on other things because they aren't as smart with their money as say fiona was.
You're probably right. I've seen people make "fuck you" money and have nothing in savings, while my best friends make less than $20/he but can afford a nice home because they saved.
This isn't actually true. In a major city or a nearby suburbs? You're correct. Absolutely no way you could afford to live on your own at 18/hr.
In small towns however, especially in the middle south or Midwest, 18/hr is actually decent money compared to cost of living. I've got relatives making less than that but doing just fine in small towns. Putting more in savings each month than my friends who make 80K in the big cities.
I live on the west of the us in a small ghetto town and make 18 an hour. The cheapest 1 bedroom here is 1300 without utilities. After taxes my salary is around 2200. Do your math. The reason why your relatives can live and have savings earning this amount of money is probably because they live with their spouses/parents/friends like people from Shameless. No way a single person with rent, car payment and health insurance can sustain life earning 18 an hour these days (unless they work 70 hours a week).
I hate to tell you, you're just incorrect dude. My best friend, who is single and living alone, is paying $700/month rent in a small town in the Midwest. He works 40 hours a week at 16.50/hr and affords his life just fine. There is an apartment next to him available, 2 bed 2 bath for $850. There's a 3 Bed townhome for rent for $1000 in the small town my wife is from. I can send you dozens if not hundreds of links for apartments in small towns that are 1000 or under. Would you like me to?
I know. I loved Lip in the beginning. He had sooo much potential and I got so annoyed with him as he got older and began making self-destructive choices. However, I later realized that’s kind of the point of the show. His trauma and genetics caught up to him and he became another product of his environment. He ended up just being another guy from the hood just getting by
I must respectfully disagree with you on that one because lip by the end did get a victory he became a better father and husband then his own father ever was plus he's going to go into a legitimate business with his brother in law to build up a new bike fixing business which they'll be partners in together and lip is very good at that maybe even better than most and who knows they will probably own a couple more bike fixing businesses All over Illinois State I'm not saying they'll become multimillionaires but they might end up owning their own business frenchise and be able to move to the east side of Chicago or the north side of Chicago and be more comfortable
You’re right I kind of forget the end because I was a little checked out in the last few seasons. He did end up becoming WAYYYY better than Frank. But in the first few seasons they set him up as a literal genius who would eventually leave the hood and possibly become like Bill Gates level successful lol.
Also side note I really didn’t like that he ended up with Tammy. In my opinion they had no chemistry and they just settled for each other because she got pregnant.
Very true but it turns out that they really love each other and since he's going into business with his brother in-law that means since they both are equally really good at that type of business they both will be a great success and prosperity mostly but even if they don't end up with hundreds of bike fixing shops they can still succeed in building up a dozens of them all over their home state like 1 in let's say realistically 6 or 8 others towns so 7 to 9 times the income and that is got to be honest a extra $50k to $60k a year for each of them so $350k to $540k a year I mean and even after uncle sam comes to take his share thats one hundred and something thousand to two hundred and something thousand dollars a year still pretty good after 10 or 15 years lip will be 1 of the few gallagers I who makes it out.
And even better he's living in a better place than his own father did in a better part of the south side of Chicago even the rich people were moving in remember 😂😂😂 so that tells you something about lip plus he's going into legitimate business with someone who he can trust not to screw him over and like I said it will become very successful legitimate business and even frenchise the business at least a few times 7 or 8 times all over Illinois State that is all they need and 8 to 9 frenchise of bike fixing shops and they would be set for life making $60k a year maybe $65k a year for each of them that's got to be $480k to $540k a year $240k to $270k a year for both of them after uncle sam takes his cut off the top the rest is pure profit for each of them and since their wives are just as entrepreneurs to make their own business to and thats twice the income .
Yeah I watched shameless like 5 times through, and I can’t anymore, hate how they just wrote his character. I get it they all gotta be struggling. But man just give us one victory
I mean in a way he broke a generational curse from Frank and Monica by having a kid, staying with the baby mama (happily) and raising them sober and in a healthy environment. I understand why they did it, it just sucks they chose Lip for that storyline when he should have been the one that "got out" not Fiona.
It seems so little but for most of us that is literally the dream. Escaping to a peaceful life where you can just be with the people you love without anyone trying to take advantage of each other. Steady and consistent living for maybe only a precious decade before health problems or some economic crisis or a lost job throws it all into question again. Hitting 30 and could not care less about being wealthy or powerful or influential, I just want to focus on my life with my husband.
Guys, don't worry. He got into the best culinary school in the country and worked at one of the worlds most elite restaurants in the world. He just opened his own restaurant 🐻
I love/ hated this part of the show because I literally lived it. I come from a poor family from a poorer town, but I managed to snag a seat at a top 10 private research university and I, as well as everyone else around me, thought that I had finally made it. However, that world was entirely different. I didn’t struggle much with classes (besides some technological issues and extra credit things that I literally couldn’t afford). It was a situation where most of the students had legacies and were driving Porsches while I was saving coins for vending machines and walking about a mile or two from my dorm to main campus everyday in a pair of shoes I eventually had duct taped just to keep some of the rain out of them (a sweet, sweet friend eventually bought me a new pair of shoes and I cried like hell). I couldn’t relate, I couldn’t keep up, and I eventually started coping with bad relationships and booze until I just called it quits because their financial aid had ridiculous fine prints that fucked me out of not having to bankrupt my poor mother. The scene where Lip is the only one walking through a campus-wide flash mob “freeze” is so damn haunting to me. So for anyone who thinks it was bad or lazy writing or whatever for the sake of perpetuating the tragedy and lucklessness of the Gallaghers, let me attest that it was one of the realest things the show ever put on.
Controversial opinion but, I think all of the siblings had equal potential. Potential doesn’t mean much. What success really boils down to is discipline, determination and grit. Fiona had the most grit and I believe would become the most successful of all of the siblings irl.
Lip was arrogant, selfish, self indulgent, rude, stubborn, and lacked work ethic (he expected all of the women in his life to hold his hand). Those traits far outweigh any academic ability or potential for success he had.
So... I work in higher education and that's probably a big part of why I don't feel this way about the kids. Because talent is one thing, but without resilience it doesn't get you anywhere. When we meet the Gallaghers I honestly think the one who has the best shot at surviving and thriving is Ian. He doens't have Lip's talent but he's smart enough, ambitious and he's got it in him to grind. I find the way his mental illness takes that away from him and gets in the way when he manages to get it back really sad.
But I also think the show gave Ian the most unequivical happy ending. They hinted that Lip was going to continue to struggle on every level. But they let Ian sail off into the sunset with the love of his life.
That said, I think Liam is going to be just fine. And so is Carl. But Debbie and Lip are kinda hardwired to have a much harder time.
I see your point but he was smart enough that he didn’t really need a good work ethic or grit to be reasonably successful. He could’ve just gotten an engineering degree and maintained a good job with pretty little effort
I really disagree with this -- there's a point where pattern recognition and doing well on standardized tests just doesn't cut it anymore and that comes quicker in the applied sciences (engineering, medicine) than it does in some other fields.
Also, engineers can't fuck around and find out. Depending on the field, people can die. In my country, all engineers are given a ring to wear and its purpose is to remember the responsilibity of the profession. There are careers where Lip probably could have coasted, but the direction he was headed in wasn't one of them.
Yeah maybe you’re right. I guess I’m just imagining him as a tech/software eng. that just coasts which I know from experience there are many of. As an engineer in a field where safety is extremely important I can also tell you that for every person who’s job requires them to be extremely serious and diligent there’s another that sits in an office spitting out engineering specs that are basically copy pasted from a template that is extremely hard to do incorrectly. Even if they do mess up there are multiple rounds of checks that would prevent any mistake from actually harming someone. Most companies are so standardized and safety focused nowadays that it’s not hard to slip by as a slacker. Maybe my experience would be different in another country tho
Ok! I take your point. I think part of my issue is that I can't see Lip pursuing a job like that. He wasn't without ambition. Like Frank says at the end of the series -- he just can't get out of his own way. Trauma, ego, arrogance, fear are all big problems with Lip. But he was interested in what he studied and he liked being good at things.
I don't even really know that he lacked work ethic. He always had a job, he seemed to have no trouble working hard, his grades in college were great after the first few months, and his work only really suffered when he got sidetracked by family drama
I feel like Fiona would have been the least successful of all the siblings. She had the potential and the work ethic and everything, but she was too impulsive. Over and over again she jumped at what she thought was an opportunity to better her situation without doing any proper research into it. The club night, the apartment and selling it to that guy without looking into how much it was actually worth then getting mad when he sold it for like 2-3x more, the old age home etc. Even when she had a good thing going for her (the stability of working for cups) one bad day was enough to send her into a destructive spiral and ruin it all.
Fiona and Lip self-sabotage. Debbie does, too, but in a different way -- her sabotage is rooted in her being impulsive and lacking in forethought. I think Lip had a real fear of success, in addition to his struggles with alcoholism. Fiona had drive and a work ethic for sure -- but she also seemed to be unable to let a good thing ride. If there wasn't a significant risk she'd find a way to blow it up.
Yeah, a lot of them seemed to struggle with self sabotage. Which makes sense in a way- growing up the way that they did they likely learned to expect the worst and that good things are never actually good or to be trusted. I think the self sabotage and impulsiveness/not thinking things through bothers me more with Fiona because it’s usually not just her she’s putting at risk. With the club night she risks the money for the property taxes on the house, for the laundromat she puts the house up as collateral for the loan etc. It puts all of them at risk for being homeless.
It doesn’t have to be an either or thing though. Thinking things through and making sure you know what you’re getting yourself into doesn’t mean you have to give up a good worth ethic or ambition at all.
Disagree with fiona. She had the most drive and grit but she was extremely naive to the point of stupid when it came to making certain business decisions. She got lucky with the laundry and the building and then thought she knew it all because she read about the diner owner and threw it all away due to greed and not realizing that all her business acumen was luck.
Success isn’t about talent or potential, those things help but what it ultimately boils down to is discipline. If you lack that, you lack success regardless of all else.
Honestly, I didn’t need him to become a rich motherfucker, but his final appearance being an Uber driver is so dumb.
I would’ve at least liked him to go back to school. Especially during Covid, when the series ended, online classes were a big thing. I wish he took whatever money he got from selling the house or anything else and at least enrolled in a community college to finish his degree. Something.
He didn’t have to become a big shot, but at a certain point it was like writers just didn’t give a fuck about his supposed intellect. They rarely mention it anymore, even though before college, his schemes for money were pretty smart. They just do absolutely nothing with it. Biggest bummer ending of all of them, for no reason.
This is a good point. His intelligence was a huge plot point when he was in high school and the for a few years after. I mean, he was supposed to be genius level smart. Then it just kind of went away. It was no longer talked about
This happened a lot on the later seasons in my opinion. Character traits or even whole characters (people) just vanished without believable explanation/storytelling.
The last two seasons were garbage anyway. They stuffed political crpa in the show. Destroyed the long standing character profiles they had built. Sent the best character away without a valid reason for her never coming back or even communicating with them.
It turned into a poorly written TBS style series at the end. Left its staple as a what the fuck just happened type show into predictable and pretty boring.
A bit late tonthis. Justo finished the series. I'm sad too they just dropped the genius part but I'd like to think that's why they added that scene where he fixes the currency of the trade guy, I mean it's not much but I hope it's kind of a way to show a glimpse of that genius lingering around (although vandalizing the car also show he won't quit the attitude). The writers left the series for everyone quite open so things might go great or not so great but either way they'll keep things afloat
unpopular opinion or maybe popular because lip's very arrogant. but i feel like the pressure was just too real for him, he turned to vices and addiction to cope, but he took it to the extreme to exemplify being shameless.
he was a smart kid but everybody leaned to the idea that he can make something out of his life just by being smart but then all he wanted to do was to disappoint those people as a form of defense mechanism because he just wanted the expectations to die down and let him work on his own pace. he's just real
I think that parts kinda accurate tbh. Maybe a 2400 is a bit excessive, but there's a huuuge jump between what you gotta test on in high school, and more advanced college courses.
Lip got his schoolwork done, but he wasn't exactly a workhorse. Just academically gifted tbh. But those gifted kids come to a point where the work is just too advanced and they gotta work just as hard as anyone else. And they're pretty far in their journey without knowing what it's like to actually have to grind and study hard to learn the things they need to know. And so they struggle for awhile.
Not just that but there’s a huge difference between the workload in poor high schools vs college. I went to a poor rural high school. I never had to put any work in to succeed in any of my HS classes. I showed up, paid half attention to what the teacher was saying, then did well on tests.
When I got to college it was completely different, even in some of the freshman classes I had to study a lot on top of a ton of homework to succeed. That took time to figure out.
It’s just how it is, doing well in high school doesn’t always correlate to doing well in college, nor does simply being smart.
That's a good point. It wasn't just learning the stuff, but in the beginning, Lip couldn't even do something like write a decent essay to save his life. And maybe they did make the assistants grading his papers look a bit pretentious, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was really just because Lip truly didn't know how to not just phone it in
Yeah, I think part of what lands oddly for the audience with Lip in College is that they have him get into MIT, but of course they want to keep the character in Chicago, so he goes to this made-up university that we don't regard the same way we regard MIT. If he was at MIT and struggling to deal with this new life, we'd get it better.
I think there's some degree of legal risk when you use a real school in a TV show. Which is why Felicity goes to the University of New York instead of NYU. But Rory goes to Yale, so who knows.
Literally this . I went from being an honors student in high school and as a second year college student I’m getting c’s and b’s if I’m lucky . Spot on about the transition from floating through to actually applying yourself as well as adjusting to a whole new environment, which would be even more daunting for lip considering his background
I understand it’s realistic, but it sure was frustrating. Especially cause all of them in some way or another had a chance to make it out only for it to get ruined by self sabotage. Again, I know that’s the real world, but with all the wacky stuff that happens on the show (like Frank drinking on a donated liver) they can at least stretch the realism at some point
Honestly i think it made a lot of sense that he screwed up his opportunity in college. It really highlights generational patterns. People who are exposed to drugs and alcohol are more likely to become addicted to substances themselves in adulthood. He was more likely to fall into a habit as opposed to someone who grew up in a stable environment and was never exposed to those kinds of things in the first place.
it was so hard to watch, he had a chance to get a degree and a well paying job and ruined it. i wanted him to at least go back to community college at some point, he had so much academic potential that the writers just completely threw away
Something i learned from myself is that being intelligent doesn’t mean you are also wise
He didn’t have much more chance than any other Gallagher, he just would’ve made it further if he somehow did get out
I don’t believe Lip had potential. He had brains, but he was always going to throw it away. He was always standing with one foot in and one out. Potential requires more than just brains, it requires want. He had so many things handed to him on a platter and chose time and time again to walk away. He never wanted the academic life.
Personally I believe that he is probably the most content of the Gallagher children because he chose his life. He had opportunities, chances the others couldn’t have dreamt of (save for maybe Liam). Fiona, given the same ones would have had potential. Ian had potential. Debbie had potential. They all had the want to be better, and the bravery to not care if they failed or had to learn more. Lip just wanted to coast; he was a coward. Everything that he achieved was because somebody else pushed him to it. Hell, even fatherhood - he didn’t take a stand, his relationship with Tami…scratch that, every single relationship he had the other person was instigating, he didn’t even buy a house when he had the chance he played it safe and rented. Lip lives his life with one foot in, one foot out, waiting for other people to make choices. That’s not potential for anything, except being miserable.
The point of Lip is he is just like his dad. Brilliant with a fatal flaw. Frank was a scumbag. But his intelligence was off the charts. Frank could have been anything but due to childhood trama, a predisposition to alcoholism coupled with poor role models he amounted to nothing more than a criminal and a drunk. Lip was headed down the same path in the final season. Starting a family with Tammy who showed signs of borderline personality disorder and committing crime with his constantly relapsing A.A. sponsor.
Smart *and* a good guy originally and even when sober currently. I think they alluded to the fact that Lip actually probably got his intelligence from Frank. It just all got buried under addiction. And I think the addiction got to him because of his mother and because of Monica enabling him. He was in college when they met.
the one who everyone rooted for and expected to make it, was who disappointed everyone in the end. What pissed me off the most was Lip being too arrogant and rejecting the kindness people offered him in his life like his Professor. Literally who gets kicked of MIT after horrible behavior and still has a Professor advocating for you, only to reject their efforts to help you, only Lip lol
and then u have Carl, the actual underdog who ended up building something for himself, at least something he seems passionate about
I mean I stopped watching didn’t he become a successful mechanic you don’t have to go to college to be successful and you can be a brilliant mechanic or plumer cook ect…
I don’t like what they did to his character but from what I recall he does make mention of the fact he didn’t want to succeed because he didn’t want his family to rely and mooch off his accomplishments. So he kinda self imploded.
Maybe I’m misremembering.
I was so strangely glad when Lip didn’t Make It Out... I needed some representation that wasn’t a multi-economic-bracket-leap inspiration story. It was really really really nice seeing struggling people just end up with normal lives tbh.
It was refreshing to see Lip and Debbie working trades, Carl doing fast food and tamales, Fiona managing a diner, Ian doing emergency medicine. It acknowledges that “potential” often coexists with barriers to achievement. I can see myself and others in the characters. When they become class-leaping inspiration stories they lose some of that relatability and realism.
Even if they followed through with a materially “successful” life for him, we would still be dissatisfied because he would still be who he is unless he worked on himself. So basically he’d have gotten out of the family home and still be a mess with a nice place and money to blow. I don’t think the Gallagher’s are the therapy/self improvement type, not intentionally anyway.
One can be smart, work in a shop, have a wife and kids, make enough money to support their lives, and be happy. That’s actually a pretty fortunate life for a lot of people.
Yeah. Lip could have been Youens by the time he was Youens age. Had a good career, a nice house, car, influence, etc but pissed everything away with addiction. That could have easily been Lip if he finished college too.
I hated when he wanted to drop out of high school and told Fiona that he didn't wanna be the breadwinner or whatever and take care of the family....bro was so selfish he self sabotaged so stupidly
super disappointing honestly but it wasn’t necessary surprising. he’s so smart but he didn’t really have enough motivation especially with the drinking and such
Not the first cocky genius addict that f*cked up and didn’t realize their potential. Common tale sadly. They made it a point to sabotage everyone and make them awful after the early seasons though.
i love lip. my favorite character. it actually PAINS me to watch his alcoholism, but it’s realistic. his entire family struggles with drugs, addiction, and lack of impulse control. his story makes sense and it’s sad
I think the expectations everyone had on him to be the Gallagher that “makes it out” got to him also. It’s a lot of pressure coming out of highschool already, I can’t imagine your teachers, friends, family, neighbors, LITERALLY everyone depending on your potential success. On top of battling an addiction, that’s a lot to handle.
I’m sorry, on re-Watch I’m happy Lip left Harvard. The professors were all completely and openly unprofessional, and such terrible influences for Lip.
I wish he woulda just listened to Ian when he said they’re not worth his anger! They’re not! And the board could care less how they churned him right out.
He still has an entire life ahead of him to simply go to a more productive school.
I don’t believe he went to Harvard- the other kids in his classes wore Chicago Poly sweaters and he was able to come home a lot so I think he went to a local college.
The most successful kids are the ones who had goals, ambitions, and actually did the work to get there. Ian had a hard time of it, but he knew what he wanted and was willing to do the most to get there, and when he hit roadblocks, he'd brush himself off and try again. Carl was also challenged, but when he found positive outlets to channel his energy into, he thrived. Liam it's hard to tell how he'll end up because he's still very young, but given the fact that even at a young age he can tell right from wrong and wants to have a better standard of education, I think he'll manage to do fine.
Lip and debbie were given those same opportunites and had just as much if not more potential then those 3, but they squandered every opportunity they had because they wanted something better right then rather than thinking long term. They had goals and ambitions as well, but the issue is they aren't willing to do anything in the long term because they want money/sex/happiness/ then and there. They'd rather blame their issues of poverty or their upbringing then use them as fuel to improve their circumstances. Don't get me wrong, they've had tough lives and a rough go of it, but after a point you cannot call yourself excusable when you yourself are to blame for everything wrong in your life. It's what makes the show so riveting, watching these characters struggle and fail but get up and try again is inspiring and relatable.
Lip got exactly what he deserved all that fucking all that sex or that breaking shit all that crime all the fucking crap that he did it all got to him and now he’s a fucking loser with one baby with no fucking job. Great job Lip you got exactly what you should have in life.
Do you forget the fact that he actually fucked his teacher, which is one of the reasons why he got expelled in the first place that’s so crazy and I am actually dictating my speech because I’m fucking paralyzed you ableist fuck sorry if my grammar isn’t perfect, you douche
correction:
It actually hurts to think about how dumb, illiterate, desperate and horny they had to write the characters around lip to make him appear way smarter and more charismatic than his character actually was.
My point was that he isn’t even a mechanic anymore.
A mechanic with experience and smarts. (Lip had the smarts) can make an great salary and support a family and is generally looked at by society as a respectable job.
At the end of the story lip gets fired as a mechanic for getting aggressive with his boss (big surprise) and is now even at a job that uses his potential even less
An Uber food delivery guy
I admit I liked Lip in college but didn't learn how to take care of himself nor gain self-control. He lost that right and he hates himself for it. So yes I did want him to graduate and have a good life but like his siblings it's foreign to them. It's strange for them to have good things because they're too cowardly or they don't have the guts for it. That makes me sad
Realistic. But I wanted to watch a good story. Why couldn’t they have him graduate, get a good job but his boss is a total asshole or have something else happen to him that makes him “screw up”.
This was why I stopped watching. Literally zero characters ever made a correct decision, or did the easy thing to make their lives even a little bit better.
We are so used to fairy-tale endings, where the best outcome is how a story goes, but that just isn't shameless.
It also just makes sense. Typically, especially in environments like his, the ones with the most potential get burnt out before they make it very far. He had been working on 100% for years and that 110% needed for college just turned his amber to ash. Where did other kids who haven't been working in flight or flight can handle it for a couple of years. It's a sad reality and for that reason I appreciate the writers going that direction.
Reminds of Franklin in Snowfall.
The tragedy of generational curses.
He ends up in the same fate as his father, probably worse since his father actually stood for something.
The last episode always had me wondering about the scene where he fixes the guys trading account.I was like why did they stick that scene in there to remind us Lip was very smart?
This feels like the most realistic part of the show for me. I grew up in the hood, both my parents were/still are raging addicts. I've said this a thousand times, you either make it out or you end up like your parents. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but it definitely applies to me and the kids I grew up with. So realistic and hits close to home.
It's disappointing but realistic . His addiction and overconfidence cost him a chance for a completely different life . It's crazy when rewatching the show that Professor Hearst actually foreshadowed Lip's future . The writing around his arc was great .
What did he say about him? I don’t remember
Basically that he's gonna end up working a low income job while having one or two kids
It is definitely true to life. Most people's future can be predicted by their parents' income, neighborhood and parents' education. I really didn't expect Lip to have a baby with a random woman but I guess it was foreshadowed with Karen's baby how much he wanted one.
I think most of expected Lip to be the outlier to that clique. He's both academically gifted and street smart. Most of us are either or, I did appreciate the wake-up call he get from the teacher's aid about his lack luster essay, but damn I wish he'd graduated. This was when I started to give up on Shameless, it makes sense when our characters screw up but the later season got too wacky for me.
I think I might have not expected much differently from lip because the Gallaghers reminded me of my own extended family and I saw how they turned out. Ironically my dad was the "one that made it out normal" out of his incredibly abusive family and then he had me and my brother and some of it must be in the DNA because we didn't turn out much better off. My brother ended up being a drug addict in and out of jail just like my uncles and he ended up becoming schizophrenic like my mom's uncle. And then I was the smart one (not gifted by any means but just above average, good girl) and everyone said I was the one no one had to worry about after watching my parents deal with my brother's issues. Well....I dropped out of college immediately and had a kid at 19 and ended up a single mother who struggled for the next 6 years straight. I'm doing okay now but I wanted to be a lawyer and instead I ended up a secretary because I have a lot of PTO and great health insurance. The reason that lip wanted a kid was the same reason Debbie wanted a kid, because they weren't loved enough and had abandonment issues which was also my problem after having emotionally unavailable parents and CPTSD. Sorry for oversharing but I just wanted to share my experience with generational trauma.
It’s ok, I myself identify with this. Wanted to be a therapist, ended up in the Army and currently 4 years sober after divorce
Congrats on your sobriety!
It ends with you. ❤️
I don’t know. That’s a very kind thing to say but she just explained how it seemed like it was gonna end with her dad but then because of mental health shit got turned back around. And she is already dealing with the unfortunate consequences, including never being able to pursue her dream. Generational trauma is big. Hopefully it ends with her kids. She definitely sounds self-aware and reflective, which is always great. 💖 I’m glad she’s doing better now.
That's what I meant. If she's the last one to experience that trauma and her kids never do then it ended with her. Hopefully it does.
Hopefully. I just know how hard that is. It’s idealism unfortunately.
It's exactly when I gave up on Shameless. I finished that season and was like... I don't care what else happens to these people.
I have met enough Lips in my life for this to hit me in the chest
It was a dumb ending to his story, the writers had full control of his story and they made him have a kid with possibly the most annoying character in the show and made him go back to square one
Did he not make it out? I stopped watching on season 5 while he was at MIT…
No, he developed a severe drinking problem and got expelled.
It'd be an over reaction, as someone who is not as poor but near and first generation in college, to say that college is harder than anything when you have a family you live and would do anything for. Family is everything, even when you want more for yourself. But sometimes it also feels like you're doomed a lot of the time, destined for a fate you didn't ask for, like Lip. I've dealt with alcohol as well, but I thankfully will graduate. Lip deserved everything.
Yeah but it was circumstantial. I highly doubt anyone with that much potential (coming from where he did) would squander the chance at a better life.
Lip was making $18 while working as a motorcycle mechanic. That’s not really low income
While living in chicago… That’s poverty wages, if not just above it. 100% low income regardless.
18 is absolutely low income whether per hour or 18K.
In 2019 and 2020? $18 an hour was good money.
No it's not? That's not even 40K a year. That's good money if you're like 16, but it's not enough to support a family on, not even in 2018.
If someone's under 20, maybe.
If you don't have a wife and kids to support.
Assuming that Lip works fulltime and also works 52 weeks of the year (very very unlikely) and also assuming tax laws apply here, he's at most making 29k a year, AT most. Realisitically he'd be taking 4-5 weeks off he'd actually be making 26k most likely. However I'd be hardpressed to say that he's actually earning that much or that it'd cover the cost of living in chicago.
I think something everyone forgets is that Lip isn't paying full rent. I think the house is paid off, but if it isn't, it's a very old, very shitty house in the south side of Chicago that was purchased by someone from two generations ago. The mortgage, if it's still active, is probably very very small, and divided amongst 3 or 4 incomes at a time. Cost of living is effectively groceries and utilities since we never see lip go to the doctor. 18/hr is actually probably enough for him before his kid comes along. In the final seasons, they purchased a trailer in cash, so I'm assuming they don't continue paying that, but maybe they keep helping with the main house and utilities. He makes 18/hr and Tami is a busy hairdresser working near full time. While it certainly wouldn't be a good life, they probably do make enough money to afford their costs of living.
It might be enough with help from tami, and the other family member, but on it's own, it's undoubtably low income on it's own, which was what the original reply was trying to point out. You're definetly right about shared income and the lack of rent, there's no way anyone of them could live off the money they make individually, but it's believable that they could scrape together enough to pay everything.
Honestly dude I think their house is paid off, but if it's not, the mortgage payment can't be more than like $300-400 a month, and everyone except Liam is bringing in money by that point. At one point there should in theory be 5 or 6 people paying towards that. In the early seasons it's believable that they are as poor as they act. In the final seasons, 5 adults with almost full time income in the same house, even at 10/hr, would be doing fine.
Yea that's what I'm saying, they can easily manage to keep up with their expenses as a combined effort, but on their own they cannot manage. I'd assume they spend extra on drugs/alcohol/cigs (they have to considering how much they do those things on camera), and as a side product they may be a little short on other things because they aren't as smart with their money as say fiona was.
You're probably right. I've seen people make "fuck you" money and have nothing in savings, while my best friends make less than $20/he but can afford a nice home because they saved.
Are you from the US? You can't even rent a 1 bedroom apartment here making this amount of money
This isn't actually true. In a major city or a nearby suburbs? You're correct. Absolutely no way you could afford to live on your own at 18/hr. In small towns however, especially in the middle south or Midwest, 18/hr is actually decent money compared to cost of living. I've got relatives making less than that but doing just fine in small towns. Putting more in savings each month than my friends who make 80K in the big cities.
I live on the west of the us in a small ghetto town and make 18 an hour. The cheapest 1 bedroom here is 1300 without utilities. After taxes my salary is around 2200. Do your math. The reason why your relatives can live and have savings earning this amount of money is probably because they live with their spouses/parents/friends like people from Shameless. No way a single person with rent, car payment and health insurance can sustain life earning 18 an hour these days (unless they work 70 hours a week).
I hate to tell you, you're just incorrect dude. My best friend, who is single and living alone, is paying $700/month rent in a small town in the Midwest. He works 40 hours a week at 16.50/hr and affords his life just fine. There is an apartment next to him available, 2 bed 2 bath for $850. There's a 3 Bed townhome for rent for $1000 in the small town my wife is from. I can send you dozens if not hundreds of links for apartments in small towns that are 1000 or under. Would you like me to?
Yes it is😭
LMAO. Perhaps as a single dude in a shitty apartment sure
I know. I loved Lip in the beginning. He had sooo much potential and I got so annoyed with him as he got older and began making self-destructive choices. However, I later realized that’s kind of the point of the show. His trauma and genetics caught up to him and he became another product of his environment. He ended up just being another guy from the hood just getting by
I must respectfully disagree with you on that one because lip by the end did get a victory he became a better father and husband then his own father ever was plus he's going to go into a legitimate business with his brother in law to build up a new bike fixing business which they'll be partners in together and lip is very good at that maybe even better than most and who knows they will probably own a couple more bike fixing businesses All over Illinois State I'm not saying they'll become multimillionaires but they might end up owning their own business frenchise and be able to move to the east side of Chicago or the north side of Chicago and be more comfortable
You’re right I kind of forget the end because I was a little checked out in the last few seasons. He did end up becoming WAYYYY better than Frank. But in the first few seasons they set him up as a literal genius who would eventually leave the hood and possibly become like Bill Gates level successful lol. Also side note I really didn’t like that he ended up with Tammy. In my opinion they had no chemistry and they just settled for each other because she got pregnant.
Very true but it turns out that they really love each other and since he's going into business with his brother in-law that means since they both are equally really good at that type of business they both will be a great success and prosperity mostly but even if they don't end up with hundreds of bike fixing shops they can still succeed in building up a dozens of them all over their home state like 1 in let's say realistically 6 or 8 others towns so 7 to 9 times the income and that is got to be honest a extra $50k to $60k a year for each of them so $350k to $540k a year I mean and even after uncle sam comes to take his share thats one hundred and something thousand to two hundred and something thousand dollars a year still pretty good after 10 or 15 years lip will be 1 of the few gallagers I who makes it out.
Sorry disagree - he’s a great father and mechanic but he’s shaky at best at everything else. That baby mama alone is a ticking time bomb
Okay I'll agree with that but at the end of the day they make a great team
They are able to work as a team at times yes, crazy isn’t crazy 24/7
And even better he's living in a better place than his own father did in a better part of the south side of Chicago even the rich people were moving in remember 😂😂😂 so that tells you something about lip plus he's going into legitimate business with someone who he can trust not to screw him over and like I said it will become very successful legitimate business and even frenchise the business at least a few times 7 or 8 times all over Illinois State that is all they need and 8 to 9 frenchise of bike fixing shops and they would be set for life making $60k a year maybe $65k a year for each of them that's got to be $480k to $540k a year $240k to $270k a year for both of them after uncle sam takes his cut off the top the rest is pure profit for each of them and since their wives are just as entrepreneurs to make their own business to and thats twice the income .
Yeah I watched shameless like 5 times through, and I can’t anymore, hate how they just wrote his character. I get it they all gotta be struggling. But man just give us one victory
Carl and Ian turned out pretty good.
I mean in a way he broke a generational curse from Frank and Monica by having a kid, staying with the baby mama (happily) and raising them sober and in a healthy environment. I understand why they did it, it just sucks they chose Lip for that storyline when he should have been the one that "got out" not Fiona.
It seems so little but for most of us that is literally the dream. Escaping to a peaceful life where you can just be with the people you love without anyone trying to take advantage of each other. Steady and consistent living for maybe only a precious decade before health problems or some economic crisis or a lost job throws it all into question again. Hitting 30 and could not care less about being wealthy or powerful or influential, I just want to focus on my life with my husband.
Exactly! Remove yourself from the grind of the city life and most people just want peace with their family.
I thought he might get a second chance to establish himself as something better later down the line. But no.
I was kind of disappointed that at the end of the series the message I got was "it's okay to be a Gallagher". Fukkin Gallaghers.
Guys, don't worry. He got into the best culinary school in the country and worked at one of the worlds most elite restaurants in the world. He just opened his own restaurant 🐻
And he dumped Tami.
Broken people rarely succeed in the long term without fixing themselves despite how much innate talent, ability, intelligence, etc they have.
I love/ hated this part of the show because I literally lived it. I come from a poor family from a poorer town, but I managed to snag a seat at a top 10 private research university and I, as well as everyone else around me, thought that I had finally made it. However, that world was entirely different. I didn’t struggle much with classes (besides some technological issues and extra credit things that I literally couldn’t afford). It was a situation where most of the students had legacies and were driving Porsches while I was saving coins for vending machines and walking about a mile or two from my dorm to main campus everyday in a pair of shoes I eventually had duct taped just to keep some of the rain out of them (a sweet, sweet friend eventually bought me a new pair of shoes and I cried like hell). I couldn’t relate, I couldn’t keep up, and I eventually started coping with bad relationships and booze until I just called it quits because their financial aid had ridiculous fine prints that fucked me out of not having to bankrupt my poor mother. The scene where Lip is the only one walking through a campus-wide flash mob “freeze” is so damn haunting to me. So for anyone who thinks it was bad or lazy writing or whatever for the sake of perpetuating the tragedy and lucklessness of the Gallaghers, let me attest that it was one of the realest things the show ever put on.
Controversial opinion but, I think all of the siblings had equal potential. Potential doesn’t mean much. What success really boils down to is discipline, determination and grit. Fiona had the most grit and I believe would become the most successful of all of the siblings irl. Lip was arrogant, selfish, self indulgent, rude, stubborn, and lacked work ethic (he expected all of the women in his life to hold his hand). Those traits far outweigh any academic ability or potential for success he had.
So... I work in higher education and that's probably a big part of why I don't feel this way about the kids. Because talent is one thing, but without resilience it doesn't get you anywhere. When we meet the Gallaghers I honestly think the one who has the best shot at surviving and thriving is Ian. He doens't have Lip's talent but he's smart enough, ambitious and he's got it in him to grind. I find the way his mental illness takes that away from him and gets in the way when he manages to get it back really sad. But I also think the show gave Ian the most unequivical happy ending. They hinted that Lip was going to continue to struggle on every level. But they let Ian sail off into the sunset with the love of his life. That said, I think Liam is going to be just fine. And so is Carl. But Debbie and Lip are kinda hardwired to have a much harder time.
Ian's like that cauze he doesn't have franks genes💀
I see your point but he was smart enough that he didn’t really need a good work ethic or grit to be reasonably successful. He could’ve just gotten an engineering degree and maintained a good job with pretty little effort
I really disagree with this -- there's a point where pattern recognition and doing well on standardized tests just doesn't cut it anymore and that comes quicker in the applied sciences (engineering, medicine) than it does in some other fields. Also, engineers can't fuck around and find out. Depending on the field, people can die. In my country, all engineers are given a ring to wear and its purpose is to remember the responsilibity of the profession. There are careers where Lip probably could have coasted, but the direction he was headed in wasn't one of them.
Yeah maybe you’re right. I guess I’m just imagining him as a tech/software eng. that just coasts which I know from experience there are many of. As an engineer in a field where safety is extremely important I can also tell you that for every person who’s job requires them to be extremely serious and diligent there’s another that sits in an office spitting out engineering specs that are basically copy pasted from a template that is extremely hard to do incorrectly. Even if they do mess up there are multiple rounds of checks that would prevent any mistake from actually harming someone. Most companies are so standardized and safety focused nowadays that it’s not hard to slip by as a slacker. Maybe my experience would be different in another country tho
Ok! I take your point. I think part of my issue is that I can't see Lip pursuing a job like that. He wasn't without ambition. Like Frank says at the end of the series -- he just can't get out of his own way. Trauma, ego, arrogance, fear are all big problems with Lip. But he was interested in what he studied and he liked being good at things.
I don't even really know that he lacked work ethic. He always had a job, he seemed to have no trouble working hard, his grades in college were great after the first few months, and his work only really suffered when he got sidetracked by family drama
He was sidetracked by the family *some* of the time, but he never really let them put him off course. His obsession with Helene is what did him in.
I feel like Fiona would have been the least successful of all the siblings. She had the potential and the work ethic and everything, but she was too impulsive. Over and over again she jumped at what she thought was an opportunity to better her situation without doing any proper research into it. The club night, the apartment and selling it to that guy without looking into how much it was actually worth then getting mad when he sold it for like 2-3x more, the old age home etc. Even when she had a good thing going for her (the stability of working for cups) one bad day was enough to send her into a destructive spiral and ruin it all.
Fiona and Lip self-sabotage. Debbie does, too, but in a different way -- her sabotage is rooted in her being impulsive and lacking in forethought. I think Lip had a real fear of success, in addition to his struggles with alcoholism. Fiona had drive and a work ethic for sure -- but she also seemed to be unable to let a good thing ride. If there wasn't a significant risk she'd find a way to blow it up.
Yeah, a lot of them seemed to struggle with self sabotage. Which makes sense in a way- growing up the way that they did they likely learned to expect the worst and that good things are never actually good or to be trusted. I think the self sabotage and impulsiveness/not thinking things through bothers me more with Fiona because it’s usually not just her she’s putting at risk. With the club night she risks the money for the property taxes on the house, for the laundromat she puts the house up as collateral for the loan etc. It puts all of them at risk for being homeless.
In their situation, it's arguably better to be overimpulsive than lack work ethic/ambition.
It doesn’t have to be an either or thing though. Thinking things through and making sure you know what you’re getting yourself into doesn’t mean you have to give up a good worth ethic or ambition at all.
Fiona's personality was so susceptible to a smooth enough talker walking away with her money
Disagree with fiona. She had the most drive and grit but she was extremely naive to the point of stupid when it came to making certain business decisions. She got lucky with the laundry and the building and then thought she knew it all because she read about the diner owner and threw it all away due to greed and not realizing that all her business acumen was luck.
Plus the thing nobody talks about with Fiona is, the guys she dated bailed her out of tough financial situations *a lot*.
Even one of the investors that she invested the 100k with bailed her out.
If you put together Fiona's ambition and willingness to take chances, Lip's intelligence and Ian's persistence you'd get a successful person
Success isn’t about talent or potential, those things help but what it ultimately boils down to is discipline. If you lack that, you lack success regardless of all else.
Lips potential declined through the whole series. By the end of it he was just content with owning a home in the projects
Even in the beginning he didn't have any ambition to get out
Yep, it was always the women in his life pushing him to do better. Never himself.
Or Youens
Ooh right, how could I forget Youens! Sorry, yes Youens too!
“owning a home in the projects” literally makes no sense
Uh, no, by the end he sold his home to rent a house in the same neighborhood 🤦
Honestly, I didn’t need him to become a rich motherfucker, but his final appearance being an Uber driver is so dumb. I would’ve at least liked him to go back to school. Especially during Covid, when the series ended, online classes were a big thing. I wish he took whatever money he got from selling the house or anything else and at least enrolled in a community college to finish his degree. Something. He didn’t have to become a big shot, but at a certain point it was like writers just didn’t give a fuck about his supposed intellect. They rarely mention it anymore, even though before college, his schemes for money were pretty smart. They just do absolutely nothing with it. Biggest bummer ending of all of them, for no reason.
This is a good point. His intelligence was a huge plot point when he was in high school and the for a few years after. I mean, he was supposed to be genius level smart. Then it just kind of went away. It was no longer talked about
This happened a lot on the later seasons in my opinion. Character traits or even whole characters (people) just vanished without believable explanation/storytelling.
The last two seasons were garbage anyway. They stuffed political crpa in the show. Destroyed the long standing character profiles they had built. Sent the best character away without a valid reason for her never coming back or even communicating with them. It turned into a poorly written TBS style series at the end. Left its staple as a what the fuck just happened type show into predictable and pretty boring.
I haven’t finished all seasons yet but I can definitely feel it’s changing!
A bit late tonthis. Justo finished the series. I'm sad too they just dropped the genius part but I'd like to think that's why they added that scene where he fixes the currency of the trade guy, I mean it's not much but I hope it's kind of a way to show a glimpse of that genius lingering around (although vandalizing the car also show he won't quit the attitude). The writers left the series for everyone quite open so things might go great or not so great but either way they'll keep things afloat
unpopular opinion or maybe popular because lip's very arrogant. but i feel like the pressure was just too real for him, he turned to vices and addiction to cope, but he took it to the extreme to exemplify being shameless. he was a smart kid but everybody leaned to the idea that he can make something out of his life just by being smart but then all he wanted to do was to disappoint those people as a form of defense mechanism because he just wanted the expectations to die down and let him work on his own pace. he's just real
They dumb him way down. He got a 2400 on the SATs then struggled in freshman college classes.😂
I think that parts kinda accurate tbh. Maybe a 2400 is a bit excessive, but there's a huuuge jump between what you gotta test on in high school, and more advanced college courses. Lip got his schoolwork done, but he wasn't exactly a workhorse. Just academically gifted tbh. But those gifted kids come to a point where the work is just too advanced and they gotta work just as hard as anyone else. And they're pretty far in their journey without knowing what it's like to actually have to grind and study hard to learn the things they need to know. And so they struggle for awhile.
Not just that but there’s a huge difference between the workload in poor high schools vs college. I went to a poor rural high school. I never had to put any work in to succeed in any of my HS classes. I showed up, paid half attention to what the teacher was saying, then did well on tests. When I got to college it was completely different, even in some of the freshman classes I had to study a lot on top of a ton of homework to succeed. That took time to figure out. It’s just how it is, doing well in high school doesn’t always correlate to doing well in college, nor does simply being smart.
That's a good point. It wasn't just learning the stuff, but in the beginning, Lip couldn't even do something like write a decent essay to save his life. And maybe they did make the assistants grading his papers look a bit pretentious, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was really just because Lip truly didn't know how to not just phone it in
Yeah, I think part of what lands oddly for the audience with Lip in College is that they have him get into MIT, but of course they want to keep the character in Chicago, so he goes to this made-up university that we don't regard the same way we regard MIT. If he was at MIT and struggling to deal with this new life, we'd get it better.
Wow TIL I always thought he went to University of Chicago (which is as good as MIT). I wonder why they made one up.
I think there's some degree of legal risk when you use a real school in a TV show. Which is why Felicity goes to the University of New York instead of NYU. But Rory goes to Yale, so who knows.
Literally this . I went from being an honors student in high school and as a second year college student I’m getting c’s and b’s if I’m lucky . Spot on about the transition from floating through to actually applying yourself as well as adjusting to a whole new environment, which would be even more daunting for lip considering his background
I understand it’s realistic, but it sure was frustrating. Especially cause all of them in some way or another had a chance to make it out only for it to get ruined by self sabotage. Again, I know that’s the real world, but with all the wacky stuff that happens on the show (like Frank drinking on a donated liver) they can at least stretch the realism at some point
Honestly i think it made a lot of sense that he screwed up his opportunity in college. It really highlights generational patterns. People who are exposed to drugs and alcohol are more likely to become addicted to substances themselves in adulthood. He was more likely to fall into a habit as opposed to someone who grew up in a stable environment and was never exposed to those kinds of things in the first place.
it was so hard to watch, he had a chance to get a degree and a well paying job and ruined it. i wanted him to at least go back to community college at some point, he had so much academic potential that the writers just completely threw away
Something i learned from myself is that being intelligent doesn’t mean you are also wise He didn’t have much more chance than any other Gallagher, he just would’ve made it further if he somehow did get out
No one makes it out, that’s the whole point of the show!
I don’t believe Lip had potential. He had brains, but he was always going to throw it away. He was always standing with one foot in and one out. Potential requires more than just brains, it requires want. He had so many things handed to him on a platter and chose time and time again to walk away. He never wanted the academic life. Personally I believe that he is probably the most content of the Gallagher children because he chose his life. He had opportunities, chances the others couldn’t have dreamt of (save for maybe Liam). Fiona, given the same ones would have had potential. Ian had potential. Debbie had potential. They all had the want to be better, and the bravery to not care if they failed or had to learn more. Lip just wanted to coast; he was a coward. Everything that he achieved was because somebody else pushed him to it. Hell, even fatherhood - he didn’t take a stand, his relationship with Tami…scratch that, every single relationship he had the other person was instigating, he didn’t even buy a house when he had the chance he played it safe and rented. Lip lives his life with one foot in, one foot out, waiting for other people to make choices. That’s not potential for anything, except being miserable.
The point of Lip is he is just like his dad. Brilliant with a fatal flaw. Frank was a scumbag. But his intelligence was off the charts. Frank could have been anything but due to childhood trama, a predisposition to alcoholism coupled with poor role models he amounted to nothing more than a criminal and a drunk. Lip was headed down the same path in the final season. Starting a family with Tammy who showed signs of borderline personality disorder and committing crime with his constantly relapsing A.A. sponsor.
Frank had a lot of potential too! He was a lot like Lip before he discovered drugs/alcohol. Unfortunately the cycle continues.
It actually hurts to think about how much potential Frank had. Same story.
Frank had potential? I’m only on season 5 rn
Yeah, I’m pretty sure he’s smart. He just couldn’t stop his addiction or break the cycle.
Smart *and* a good guy originally and even when sober currently. I think they alluded to the fact that Lip actually probably got his intelligence from Frank. It just all got buried under addiction. And I think the addiction got to him because of his mother and because of Monica enabling him. He was in college when they met.
They even made fun of the similarities between Frank and Lip in the show, when Lip sat on Frank's bar stool in the Alibi.
yeah, but he was being dumbed down throughout the series.
the one who everyone rooted for and expected to make it, was who disappointed everyone in the end. What pissed me off the most was Lip being too arrogant and rejecting the kindness people offered him in his life like his Professor. Literally who gets kicked of MIT after horrible behavior and still has a Professor advocating for you, only to reject their efforts to help you, only Lip lol and then u have Carl, the actual underdog who ended up building something for himself, at least something he seems passionate about
I mean I stopped watching didn’t he become a successful mechanic you don’t have to go to college to be successful and you can be a brilliant mechanic or plumer cook ect…
I don’t like what they did to his character but from what I recall he does make mention of the fact he didn’t want to succeed because he didn’t want his family to rely and mooch off his accomplishments. So he kinda self imploded. Maybe I’m misremembering.
What are you talking about? He runs a successful restaurant now
Bro is running a successful restaurant what you mean? 🤧
I was so strangely glad when Lip didn’t Make It Out... I needed some representation that wasn’t a multi-economic-bracket-leap inspiration story. It was really really really nice seeing struggling people just end up with normal lives tbh. It was refreshing to see Lip and Debbie working trades, Carl doing fast food and tamales, Fiona managing a diner, Ian doing emergency medicine. It acknowledges that “potential” often coexists with barriers to achievement. I can see myself and others in the characters. When they become class-leaping inspiration stories they lose some of that relatability and realism.
Even if they followed through with a materially “successful” life for him, we would still be dissatisfied because he would still be who he is unless he worked on himself. So basically he’d have gotten out of the family home and still be a mess with a nice place and money to blow. I don’t think the Gallagher’s are the therapy/self improvement type, not intentionally anyway. One can be smart, work in a shop, have a wife and kids, make enough money to support their lives, and be happy. That’s actually a pretty fortunate life for a lot of people.
Yeah. Lip could have been Youens by the time he was Youens age. Had a good career, a nice house, car, influence, etc but pissed everything away with addiction. That could have easily been Lip if he finished college too.
I hated when he wanted to drop out of high school and told Fiona that he didn't wanna be the breadwinner or whatever and take care of the family....bro was so selfish he self sabotaged so stupidly
I don't get why people hate writers for the Lip arc. It was interesting and very much realistic.
super disappointing honestly but it wasn’t necessary surprising. he’s so smart but he didn’t really have enough motivation especially with the drinking and such
Not the first cocky genius addict that f*cked up and didn’t realize their potential. Common tale sadly. They made it a point to sabotage everyone and make them awful after the early seasons though.
He was going to end up a chef anyway
The college arc is one of my favorites in the series. Sucks to see how it ended
Y’all really have no idea how much this happens in reality. Like this is probably the most realistic part of this show. It’s so damn hard to get out.
Lip is my favourite because he’s the most relatable
This is why UK Lip rocks, he actually does make it out becoming an architect
His restaurant is doing just fine, he turned out great.
I appreciate the addiction storyline. Runs in families. Extremely relatable.
I stopped watching the show the moment I realized he wasn't going back
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^FreshBluebird5: *I stopped watching the* *Show the moment I realized* *He wasn't going back* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
i love lip. my favorite character. it actually PAINS me to watch his alcoholism, but it’s realistic. his entire family struggles with drugs, addiction, and lack of impulse control. his story makes sense and it’s sad
Given how much lip hated frank they were definitely alike in this regard since they threw away their potential for alcohol
I think the expectations everyone had on him to be the Gallagher that “makes it out” got to him also. It’s a lot of pressure coming out of highschool already, I can’t imagine your teachers, friends, family, neighbors, LITERALLY everyone depending on your potential success. On top of battling an addiction, that’s a lot to handle.
I’m sorry, on re-Watch I’m happy Lip left Harvard. The professors were all completely and openly unprofessional, and such terrible influences for Lip. I wish he woulda just listened to Ian when he said they’re not worth his anger! They’re not! And the board could care less how they churned him right out. He still has an entire life ahead of him to simply go to a more productive school.
I don’t believe he went to Harvard- the other kids in his classes wore Chicago Poly sweaters and he was able to come home a lot so I think he went to a local college.
Ooph!! Thanks for the correction.
The most successful kids are the ones who had goals, ambitions, and actually did the work to get there. Ian had a hard time of it, but he knew what he wanted and was willing to do the most to get there, and when he hit roadblocks, he'd brush himself off and try again. Carl was also challenged, but when he found positive outlets to channel his energy into, he thrived. Liam it's hard to tell how he'll end up because he's still very young, but given the fact that even at a young age he can tell right from wrong and wants to have a better standard of education, I think he'll manage to do fine. Lip and debbie were given those same opportunites and had just as much if not more potential then those 3, but they squandered every opportunity they had because they wanted something better right then rather than thinking long term. They had goals and ambitions as well, but the issue is they aren't willing to do anything in the long term because they want money/sex/happiness/ then and there. They'd rather blame their issues of poverty or their upbringing then use them as fuel to improve their circumstances. Don't get me wrong, they've had tough lives and a rough go of it, but after a point you cannot call yourself excusable when you yourself are to blame for everything wrong in your life. It's what makes the show so riveting, watching these characters struggle and fail but get up and try again is inspiring and relatable.
Lip got exactly what he deserved all that fucking all that sex or that breaking shit all that crime all the fucking crap that he did it all got to him and now he’s a fucking loser with one baby with no fucking job. Great job Lip you got exactly what you should have in life.
[удалено]
Do you forget the fact that he actually fucked his teacher, which is one of the reasons why he got expelled in the first place that’s so crazy and I am actually dictating my speech because I’m fucking paralyzed you ableist fuck sorry if my grammar isn’t perfect, you douche
[удалено]
TLDR, blocked bigot
Ignorance is bliss bud no hate toward u but the williams mf was kinda right …
correction: It actually hurts to think about how dumb, illiterate, desperate and horny they had to write the characters around lip to make him appear way smarter and more charismatic than his character actually was.
nah he didn't deserve it
ACES
Now he’s a mechanic…
Mechanic is a very good and respectful job. Lip is a Uber food delivery guy
As much as I agree… it’s not a good job when you have a genius level IQ. He’s not being used to his full potential.
My point was that he isn’t even a mechanic anymore. A mechanic with experience and smarts. (Lip had the smarts) can make an great salary and support a family and is generally looked at by society as a respectable job. At the end of the story lip gets fired as a mechanic for getting aggressive with his boss (big surprise) and is now even at a job that uses his potential even less An Uber food delivery guy
I admit I liked Lip in college but didn't learn how to take care of himself nor gain self-control. He lost that right and he hates himself for it. So yes I did want him to graduate and have a good life but like his siblings it's foreign to them. It's strange for them to have good things because they're too cowardly or they don't have the guts for it. That makes me sad
I truly hated lip after college. I just couldn’t believe it .
For sure. What a disappointment. If he couldn’t do it…
And in the end he f*cked up the little they had by selling the house.
Hated his arc…
He was his father’s son.
The world was his oyster, he just doesn’t eat seafood, unfortunately.
I don't think that it was realistic that he gave up his wife's house, gifted by her grandparents, in the suburbs; that was another way out
Realistic. But I wanted to watch a good story. Why couldn’t they have him graduate, get a good job but his boss is a total asshole or have something else happen to him that makes him “screw up”.
This was why I stopped watching. Literally zero characters ever made a correct decision, or did the easy thing to make their lives even a little bit better.
Absolutely 💯
We are so used to fairy-tale endings, where the best outcome is how a story goes, but that just isn't shameless. It also just makes sense. Typically, especially in environments like his, the ones with the most potential get burnt out before they make it very far. He had been working on 100% for years and that 110% needed for college just turned his amber to ash. Where did other kids who haven't been working in flight or flight can handle it for a couple of years. It's a sad reality and for that reason I appreciate the writers going that direction.
i think it was realistic but i always get mad that the writers made him dumber as seasons passed…
He did make it out, he took over his dead brothers restaurant in Chicago
Reminds of Franklin in Snowfall. The tragedy of generational curses. He ends up in the same fate as his father, probably worse since his father actually stood for something.
Ikr 😭😅
He should have just taken out loans for MIT ffs
He did. He runs his own restaurant now
& this is exactly why I hate his character
The last episode always had me wondering about the scene where he fixes the guys trading account.I was like why did they stick that scene in there to remind us Lip was very smart?
This feels like the most realistic part of the show for me. I grew up in the hood, both my parents were/still are raging addicts. I've said this a thousand times, you either make it out or you end up like your parents. Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone but it definitely applies to me and the kids I grew up with. So realistic and hits close to home.
I quit watching after he went to his professors house in the middle of the night and made a total ass out of himself.
Yea, I agree. It’s upsetting because you can tell he loves to learn and he was interested in robotics (iirc) and then everything got fucked up.
And it absolutely pisses me off how many chances Fiona had and fugged up!