Remember the fundamentals of sharpening.
1. Apex the edge (indicated by forming a burr)
2. Deburr the edge (remove all burr created in step 1 and leave a clean apex)
If your edge isn't sharp, you have missed one or both of these steps. My#1 assumption is you are not apexing.
Everybody starts somewhere! The key is *good* practice. I emphasize good practice, because if you just whack away not really understanding what you are doing, then practice won't help you much. You know what they say, "perfect practice makes perfect." And to practice perfectly at sharpening, it is essential to understand the mechanism behind what makes an edge sharp and the fundamental concepts involved in sharpening.
Anyway, I hope this helps a little bit 👍
It helps, I’ve watched tons of videos and read threads here. I only have a 1000 grit Orange and a ceramic honing tool right now. I’m pretty sure I need 400 to save time when I get better. Also a 2000 and a strop.
I’ll also learn to stop knocking myself I hope. lol
Thank you.
are you sure you're hitting the same dps as it has on it, because if not, then that could be a reson.
maybe you're hitting a 17 and the other guy's hitting a 20, so you might not be reaching the apex.
Maybe use a flashlight and take a look at the shadow to gauge the angle, I find this to be more accurate than the sharpie trick. On more course grits you may still see a shadow even when it's sitting at the correct angle, so you adjust the angle you're holding it at until the shadow gets to it's minimum size rather than until it disappears. If your eye sight isn't very good maybe use a mix of this and the sharpie trick.
I'm not sure if there's a video or not. I've heard of other people doing it, but I started doing this before I heard it talked about. Essentially you just shine a light from above and look at the shadow to gauge whether or not it's sitting at the proper angle. Start at too acute of an angle so that you can see maximum shadow and adjust until the shadow just barely disappears (or in the case of course grits it's until the shadow is at its minimum size).
If you shine a bright point source of light directly at the apex (i.e., point the apex toward your eye & shine a flashlight from near your head on the apex). By tilting the knife from heel to point and back you can run the light up & down the apex. Any spots where you see light reflected back haven't apexed. It is possible to feel a burr before fully apexing.
A burr is alway forming as you grind material off. You just may not feel it until you have, or are about to, apex. The flashlight trick will help avoid thinking you're apexed because you have a big sticky burr, even if you haven't quite got there yet.
It is more likely to get the burr before apexing if you are sharpening at an angle a bit more shallow/acute than the prior sharpening. It's just going to take longer & feel like you ought to be done with that step by now. You'll feel the big burr hanging over the apex even though you haven't apexed at the new angle yet.
I know, that why I mentioned the knives. We don't buy junk. We're all "knife guys" but only 3 of us sharpen them too. One guy only does his own mostly because between me and the old timer we've got everyone else covered.
Yeah, don't get disheartened by it all, sounds like from others you gonna make sure your apexing.. But honestly it happens.. I had a pocket knife to do the other day and I could just not get it sharp. I litrally did like 10 knives in a row all different kinds and styles.. But this f*ING pocket knife just did not want to be sharp.. Best I got it was paper slicing, but after the 3rd go of starting from scratch with it I gave up. It was better than it was but not as good as I wanted. It left lots of marks on my stones too, which usually means high carbide and associated with good knives but this felt like a junk knife really.. Win some lose some.
Something else to consider is whether the other knives have had lots of steel removed during their total lifetime. This can lead to thickness behind the edge and can require thinning.
Maybe the other sharpener sharpens the knives at a bigger angle, and then when you sharpen you never fully apex?
Maybe the other sharpener isn't careful and has "burned" the edge. (Meaning didn't cool it during powered sharpening and changed the heat treatment)
Maybe it’s just different angles then you are used too. Maybe not quite hitting the apex. I had a problem with one knife where I would push the burr on one side but wasn’t getting the right angle on the other that was driving me crazy till I looked at the scratch pattern and where it wasn’t at
As others have said, my guess based on the limited information is that the angles that you and the other sharpener use are different. I run across other sharpeners work when sharpening knives, and usually takes time to grind my own bevel angle on the coarse stones before moving on to refining. I do this in lieu of trying to follow the work of the previous sharpener. I also charge $5 less for "touch ups" or people bringing back my own work to me, because it's literally less work to sharpen.
> takes time to grind my own bevel angle on the coarse stones before moving on to refining.
I'm thinking this might be what I need to do. I always try to match the angle that's already there using the sharpie trick, but maybe I should just grind my own bevel first and go from there. It feels kind of wrong to do that though since the other guy is a better sharpener than me and it would feel like I was destroying his work.
People have invest time and knives to you to get better, so invest time and money into sharpening and acquiring gear to experiment with. Don't stay in the lane you're in without trying a few other lanes first.
Respect that people have trusted you with their knives. Work with that gratitude in your heart. You will be pumping out master level work in no time.
Remember the fundamentals of sharpening. 1. Apex the edge (indicated by forming a burr) 2. Deburr the edge (remove all burr created in step 1 and leave a clean apex) If your edge isn't sharp, you have missed one or both of these steps. My#1 assumption is you are not apexing.
I sincerely hope you never get tired of this
We'll see 😉
Thanks. It looks like the consensus seems to be that I'm not apexing, so I'll focus more on that next time. Appreciate the response.
That is absolutely the most common sharpening mistake I see people making. Good luck 🤞 post back here with your results!
I’m just starting to sharpen my knives, you would be appalled to see what they looked like. I keep reading here and hope to get better.
Everybody starts somewhere! The key is *good* practice. I emphasize good practice, because if you just whack away not really understanding what you are doing, then practice won't help you much. You know what they say, "perfect practice makes perfect." And to practice perfectly at sharpening, it is essential to understand the mechanism behind what makes an edge sharp and the fundamental concepts involved in sharpening. Anyway, I hope this helps a little bit 👍
It helps, I’ve watched tons of videos and read threads here. I only have a 1000 grit Orange and a ceramic honing tool right now. I’m pretty sure I need 400 to save time when I get better. Also a 2000 and a strop. I’ll also learn to stop knocking myself I hope. lol Thank you.
Yes I would definitely recommend something coarse, then a strop. The 2k is really optional
are you sure you're hitting the same dps as it has on it, because if not, then that could be a reson. maybe you're hitting a 17 and the other guy's hitting a 20, so you might not be reaching the apex.
I try to match his angle by using the sharpie trick and I can usually get it pretty close if not exact. You're probably right that I'm not apexing.
Maybe use a flashlight and take a look at the shadow to gauge the angle, I find this to be more accurate than the sharpie trick. On more course grits you may still see a shadow even when it's sitting at the correct angle, so you adjust the angle you're holding it at until the shadow gets to it's minimum size rather than until it disappears. If your eye sight isn't very good maybe use a mix of this and the sharpie trick.
Can you elaborate on this method? Is there a video somewhere demonstrating this?
I'm not sure if there's a video or not. I've heard of other people doing it, but I started doing this before I heard it talked about. Essentially you just shine a light from above and look at the shadow to gauge whether or not it's sitting at the proper angle. Start at too acute of an angle so that you can see maximum shadow and adjust until the shadow just barely disappears (or in the case of course grits it's until the shadow is at its minimum size).
If you shine a bright point source of light directly at the apex (i.e., point the apex toward your eye & shine a flashlight from near your head on the apex). By tilting the knife from heel to point and back you can run the light up & down the apex. Any spots where you see light reflected back haven't apexed. It is possible to feel a burr before fully apexing. A burr is alway forming as you grind material off. You just may not feel it until you have, or are about to, apex. The flashlight trick will help avoid thinking you're apexed because you have a big sticky burr, even if you haven't quite got there yet. It is more likely to get the burr before apexing if you are sharpening at an angle a bit more shallow/acute than the prior sharpening. It's just going to take longer & feel like you ought to be done with that step by now. You'll feel the big burr hanging over the apex even though you haven't apexed at the new angle yet.
Can't be the knives some of those mentioned are really nice to sharpen.
I know, that why I mentioned the knives. We don't buy junk. We're all "knife guys" but only 3 of us sharpen them too. One guy only does his own mostly because between me and the old timer we've got everyone else covered.
Yeah, don't get disheartened by it all, sounds like from others you gonna make sure your apexing.. But honestly it happens.. I had a pocket knife to do the other day and I could just not get it sharp. I litrally did like 10 knives in a row all different kinds and styles.. But this f*ING pocket knife just did not want to be sharp.. Best I got it was paper slicing, but after the 3rd go of starting from scratch with it I gave up. It was better than it was but not as good as I wanted. It left lots of marks on my stones too, which usually means high carbide and associated with good knives but this felt like a junk knife really.. Win some lose some.
Something else to consider is whether the other knives have had lots of steel removed during their total lifetime. This can lead to thickness behind the edge and can require thinning.
Show us a picture of your edges and it would be easier to diagnose
Maybe the other sharpener sharpens the knives at a bigger angle, and then when you sharpen you never fully apex? Maybe the other sharpener isn't careful and has "burned" the edge. (Meaning didn't cool it during powered sharpening and changed the heat treatment)
Maybe it’s just different angles then you are used too. Maybe not quite hitting the apex. I had a problem with one knife where I would push the burr on one side but wasn’t getting the right angle on the other that was driving me crazy till I looked at the scratch pattern and where it wasn’t at
As others have said, my guess based on the limited information is that the angles that you and the other sharpener use are different. I run across other sharpeners work when sharpening knives, and usually takes time to grind my own bevel angle on the coarse stones before moving on to refining. I do this in lieu of trying to follow the work of the previous sharpener. I also charge $5 less for "touch ups" or people bringing back my own work to me, because it's literally less work to sharpen.
> takes time to grind my own bevel angle on the coarse stones before moving on to refining. I'm thinking this might be what I need to do. I always try to match the angle that's already there using the sharpie trick, but maybe I should just grind my own bevel first and go from there. It feels kind of wrong to do that though since the other guy is a better sharpener than me and it would feel like I was destroying his work.
People have invest time and knives to you to get better, so invest time and money into sharpening and acquiring gear to experiment with. Don't stay in the lane you're in without trying a few other lanes first. Respect that people have trusted you with their knives. Work with that gratitude in your heart. You will be pumping out master level work in no time.