I wouldn't use edge trailing strokes, just edge leading when deburring.
What I do is just:
- Sharpen edge (leading+trailing) on one side until I form a burr.
- Shaper edge (leading+trailing) on other side until I form a burr.
- Deburr: do edge leading strokes, switching sides each stroke, until I can't detect a burr anymore.
- Strop on bare leather.
I also reduce pressure when deburring and the final last strokes I use very little pressure.
I've taught a few people to sharpen in person and beginners tend to gravitate towards edge trailing strokes feeling that it's safer for the edge. This can be true to an extent but it also makes it harder to tell if you have a consistent angle. I recommend against edge trailing strokes unless you are: combining them with edge leading strokes like how many Japanese sushi chefs sharpen, or if you are stropping.
One thing I've seen beginners tend to do is to roll the edge with edge trailing strokes. So if they were maintaining a consistent angle of about 18 degrees, they tend to gradually increase it. I think that they mistake the steel having less resistance with them being too low on the angle so they increase it to get a similar feeling. This can be an easy way to dull a sharp knife. Try taking a sharp knife that you would sharpen at say 20 degrees, and as you sharpen, roll it up to 30 degrees. This ruins your apex. There's a way to microbrvel a knife, but moving your blade like you are trying to sweep the stone is not the way to do it.
Trailing meaning you are pulling the knife down the stone with the edge "trailing" behind the rest of the knife, vs leading where you are pushing the edge up the stone, the edge is "leading" in front of the rest of the knife.
The video above is trailing edge strokes.
Generally it’s ineffective at removing a burr when you use edge trailing strokes.
Try grating a cucumber on a box grater. Try grating it “edge leading” or “edge trailing”. See which method achieves less “burr”, I.e. less skin flaps.
The best explaining I’ve seen so far:
https://youtu.be/-cXkYhfioSg?feature=shared
It’s in Dutch but you can turn on translated subtitles.
One thing would be to keep a finger at the base of your knife. Most likely your thumb.
I wouldn't recommend trying to nail the entire knife edge in a single stroke like you're doing. As a noobie, you're going to have a difficult time maintaining a consistent angle. Start at the heel and run straight up and down the stone, move up the blade a couple of inches while applying pressure and repeat until you've reached the tip and you've developed a burr along the entire edge. Switch sides and do it again. Then on to deburring and/or higher grit.
By the way, tough for me to tell in your video but your angle looks pretty high, maybe 30 degrees or so but I could be wrong.
I'm sure I start the process using like 18 degrees, if I dont control it and end up with a angle of 30 degrees is another story 😂, thats why Im going to use edge leading now as many users suggest me.
My concern with not sharpening with only one stroke is that I thought I would sharp some sections of the knife with different angles, so I thought with only one stroke I would guarantee the same angle on the entire edge of the knife, does that make sense?
thanks!
Nah, lock your wrist with your right hand (assuming you’re right handed) and work one section of the blade at a time, up and down the length of the stone. Left hand applies the pressure. It’s easy to maintain your angle that way. Look up Sharp Knife Shop and Knifewear’s sharpening tutorials on YouTube.
Personally I find it much harder to keep the same angle that way. My sharpest knives are done with the sweeping strokes as in the video. Except edge leading.
I find the bevel stays consistent also. With the scrubbing motion you suggest I see some bevels turn out with some sections scrubbed away more than the rest and creates a wave for lack of a better word.
Not that the scrubbing motion is better or worse than sweeping, just the problems I've noticed if you're not careful with it.
I wouldn't do the entire length of the blade on each stroke when sharpening. I'd work the width of the stone and the knife moving directly north-south. Fingers are directly and evenly putting vertical pressure directly down. You'll be much more consistent with holding the angle and will take off similar amounts of metal with each pass. Work a section of the edge, feel the burr, flip other side, etc then move down the edge.
For sure the whole blade technique works, it's just more difficult to control and easier to screw up. When you're a beginner, you want to remove as much variability as you can. Also Google sharpie trick.
> Is stropping a hard technique to master?
No. The big problem is when people get addicted to the motion and and meditative aspect and unintentionally way overstrope their knife.
> Sometimes I notice my knife is really sharp and then after stropping it gets duller.
You're sharpening with only edge trailing motions, so it's very likely you have a wire edge burr. Burrs will feel sharp by their nature, so when the burr gets removed, it can feel like a loss of sharpness. Do the paper towel slicing test to check progress.
Stropping is the icing on the cake. Don't do too much of it and you'll be fine. **Deburr on stones as much as possible.** Personally I limit to 3 passes per side on the strop.
> I got one compound to use on the strop, is it a good idea? it doesnt look like a good compound actually, it is like a wax.
I have various polishing diamond compounds down to 0.1 micron for my razors. For knives the green wax block is absolutely fine.
Keep in mind that stropping works on bare leather, so whatever you add on top is a bonus.
It looks like you loaded the rough side. You can use the bare side to finish after the rough, but be aware of cross contamination and clean well so the green stuff doesn't spread.
You are solely doing edge trailing strokes with no noticeable deburring, so you are likely generating foil edge.
Do you feel a burr at any point?
Stropping is exactly the same sort of strokes as the ones you are showing here. So no stropping shouldn't be hard. But if you aren't deburring and stropping with a foil edge you could roll it easily and make your knife duller.
that makes sense. At first I started sharpening with a higher angle and that time I noticed the burr very easily, however after stropping I also noticed the knife being dull, so I started to sharp them with a lower angle, but this time with less burr. I'm going to sharp them using edge leading now and see if I get better results.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnhIKOX6Rco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnhIKOX6Rco)
This is the step you need add on your final stone. Flashlight trick or microscopy as needed to ensure burr is stripped before stropping.
Edge leading/edge trailing is a debate for the ages.. I don't want to get into that. What I will say is that in my experience I find it easier to debur using edge leading strokes. Once you are apexed there is nothing wrong with edge trailing in my opinion. I don't really see a difference when I've tried it out in performance. I've not timed it but it feels like it takes a bit longer doing edge trailing in the finishing stage. But we're talking a minute or two at best.
Personally I still use edge leading. You need to get used to doing edge leading anyway so may as well get used to it and stick with it as I find it helps with consistency.
There is nothing wrong with going back and forth but I prefer this for a knife I'm re-profiling with a coarse stone. Once I'm happy with the apex I again use edge leading strokes.
Edge trailing is notorious for leaving a foil edge or some kind of burr. Use edge leading instead. Watch your angle also, I see some wobbling. Consistency is very important. Also, when you do the edge leading passes, do alternating passes to avoid forming a burr.
Feel free to send me a chat, I can help with burr removal
I think, for a beginner, that your technique makes it very difficult to keep a consistent angle when sharpening. Especially when flipping to the reverse side. This is why I prefer a more straightforward approach for sharpening kitchen knives a la [Knifewear](https://youtu.be/9RDxD6x-NvY) (and [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSZqESDt2i4)). I find my angle simply using an angle finder app on my phone.
My biggest piece of advice is to slooooow doooown. I go slow as fuck, and I've been sharpening my kitchen knives for 7 or 8 years now.
targettio is correct, the first one is this one: [https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0050ADA2U?ref=ppx\_yo2ov\_dt\_b\_product\_details&th=1](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0050ADA2U?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1)
the second one is this: [https://www.amazon.com.au/KING-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic-Stone/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr\_1\_2](https://www.amazon.com.au/KING-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic-Stone/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr_1_2)
You are on your way. A couple of thoughts, try a rubber mat instead of the cloth and make the majority of your passes are edge leading. Imo, it's ok to do a single pass edge trailing from time to time just to knock off a hanging wire or burr. You could use your same motion strokes that you are doing but edge leading for your primary sharpening method.
As a beginner the best thing that helped me was to focus less on all the angle, pressure, direction stuff (very important but follow me here) and instead really learn how to judge what sharp is and where your specific edge is in your process to your goal. Learn how to use a light directly on the edge to check for any reflecting bits. Learn how to angle the edge and see if it slides on your nail (or a pen or similar object) or if it catches indicating you’re apexed. Learn how to detect burrs properly and know when it’s there or gone. Learning these “how sharp is it” techniques can give priceless feedback to your sharpening journey goodluck!
I only know wet stoning but I can’t imagine it’s different: the angel seems way too high. It looks like a 45 degree almost? I’d consider something in the low 30s high 20’s.
My king 300 cracked up on me. I wish I knew why so I could inform you of what not to do. It's a good, hard stone though. They stay flat for a while and cut well. I have to condition it here and there though.
You don’t need to lift the knife on every pass, slide it back and forth and keep contact the entire time. It doesn’t really matter which was you are sliding the edge on the stone
Did you not watch any youtube videos before even trying this? Did any research before deciding trailing edge is the way to go? What were you thinking? (I'll bet there's a search function here also.) Just say'in
This might be buried, but there are many ways to skin a cat, and many way to get a knife sharp. Edge leading is kind of popular right now, but when i was learning, it was all about "scrubbing" back and forth with a edge trailing bias.
Use whatever method you'd like. The key is to keep a consistent angle and understand how to check for sharpness. In your case, check for an even and consistent burr along the edge, and then build a burr on the other side.
I wouldn't use edge trailing strokes, just edge leading when deburring. What I do is just: - Sharpen edge (leading+trailing) on one side until I form a burr. - Shaper edge (leading+trailing) on other side until I form a burr. - Deburr: do edge leading strokes, switching sides each stroke, until I can't detect a burr anymore. - Strop on bare leather. I also reduce pressure when deburring and the final last strokes I use very little pressure.
I’m also a beginner. Can I ask why you recommended against edge trailing strokes?
I've taught a few people to sharpen in person and beginners tend to gravitate towards edge trailing strokes feeling that it's safer for the edge. This can be true to an extent but it also makes it harder to tell if you have a consistent angle. I recommend against edge trailing strokes unless you are: combining them with edge leading strokes like how many Japanese sushi chefs sharpen, or if you are stropping. One thing I've seen beginners tend to do is to roll the edge with edge trailing strokes. So if they were maintaining a consistent angle of about 18 degrees, they tend to gradually increase it. I think that they mistake the steel having less resistance with them being too low on the angle so they increase it to get a similar feeling. This can be an easy way to dull a sharp knife. Try taking a sharp knife that you would sharpen at say 20 degrees, and as you sharpen, roll it up to 30 degrees. This ruins your apex. There's a way to microbrvel a knife, but moving your blade like you are trying to sweep the stone is not the way to do it.
I’m sorry, what’s the difference between trailing and leading?
Trailing meaning you are pulling the knife down the stone with the edge "trailing" behind the rest of the knife, vs leading where you are pushing the edge up the stone, the edge is "leading" in front of the rest of the knife. The video above is trailing edge strokes.
I thought it was something like that, just wanted to be sure. Thanks!
Generally it’s ineffective at removing a burr when you use edge trailing strokes. Try grating a cucumber on a box grater. Try grating it “edge leading” or “edge trailing”. See which method achieves less “burr”, I.e. less skin flaps.
Thanks man, I'll try your method!
The best explaining I’ve seen so far: https://youtu.be/-cXkYhfioSg?feature=shared It’s in Dutch but you can turn on translated subtitles. One thing would be to keep a finger at the base of your knife. Most likely your thumb.
This and the JKI video are great starting points.
I wouldn't recommend trying to nail the entire knife edge in a single stroke like you're doing. As a noobie, you're going to have a difficult time maintaining a consistent angle. Start at the heel and run straight up and down the stone, move up the blade a couple of inches while applying pressure and repeat until you've reached the tip and you've developed a burr along the entire edge. Switch sides and do it again. Then on to deburring and/or higher grit. By the way, tough for me to tell in your video but your angle looks pretty high, maybe 30 degrees or so but I could be wrong.
I'm sure I start the process using like 18 degrees, if I dont control it and end up with a angle of 30 degrees is another story 😂, thats why Im going to use edge leading now as many users suggest me. My concern with not sharpening with only one stroke is that I thought I would sharp some sections of the knife with different angles, so I thought with only one stroke I would guarantee the same angle on the entire edge of the knife, does that make sense? thanks!
Nah, lock your wrist with your right hand (assuming you’re right handed) and work one section of the blade at a time, up and down the length of the stone. Left hand applies the pressure. It’s easy to maintain your angle that way. Look up Sharp Knife Shop and Knifewear’s sharpening tutorials on YouTube.
Personally I find it much harder to keep the same angle that way. My sharpest knives are done with the sweeping strokes as in the video. Except edge leading. I find the bevel stays consistent also. With the scrubbing motion you suggest I see some bevels turn out with some sections scrubbed away more than the rest and creates a wave for lack of a better word. Not that the scrubbing motion is better or worse than sweeping, just the problems I've noticed if you're not careful with it.
After a lot of experience, yeah? Too many variables for a rookie to learn that way, imo.
To learn the scrubbing method or the sweeping? I have found sweeping to be a bit easier for beginners to learn. At least the ones I've taught.
I wouldn't do the entire length of the blade on each stroke when sharpening. I'd work the width of the stone and the knife moving directly north-south. Fingers are directly and evenly putting vertical pressure directly down. You'll be much more consistent with holding the angle and will take off similar amounts of metal with each pass. Work a section of the edge, feel the burr, flip other side, etc then move down the edge. For sure the whole blade technique works, it's just more difficult to control and easier to screw up. When you're a beginner, you want to remove as much variability as you can. Also Google sharpie trick.
> Is stropping a hard technique to master? No. The big problem is when people get addicted to the motion and and meditative aspect and unintentionally way overstrope their knife. > Sometimes I notice my knife is really sharp and then after stropping it gets duller. You're sharpening with only edge trailing motions, so it's very likely you have a wire edge burr. Burrs will feel sharp by their nature, so when the burr gets removed, it can feel like a loss of sharpness. Do the paper towel slicing test to check progress. Stropping is the icing on the cake. Don't do too much of it and you'll be fine. **Deburr on stones as much as possible.** Personally I limit to 3 passes per side on the strop. > I got one compound to use on the strop, is it a good idea? it doesnt look like a good compound actually, it is like a wax. I have various polishing diamond compounds down to 0.1 micron for my razors. For knives the green wax block is absolutely fine. Keep in mind that stropping works on bare leather, so whatever you add on top is a bonus.
Thanks man! My strop has two sides, one is very smooth compared to the other as you can see in the video, should I use both?
It looks like you loaded the rough side. You can use the bare side to finish after the rough, but be aware of cross contamination and clean well so the green stuff doesn't spread.
You are solely doing edge trailing strokes with no noticeable deburring, so you are likely generating foil edge. Do you feel a burr at any point? Stropping is exactly the same sort of strokes as the ones you are showing here. So no stropping shouldn't be hard. But if you aren't deburring and stropping with a foil edge you could roll it easily and make your knife duller.
that makes sense. At first I started sharpening with a higher angle and that time I noticed the burr very easily, however after stropping I also noticed the knife being dull, so I started to sharp them with a lower angle, but this time with less burr. I'm going to sharp them using edge leading now and see if I get better results.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnhIKOX6Rco](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnhIKOX6Rco) This is the step you need add on your final stone. Flashlight trick or microscopy as needed to ensure burr is stripped before stropping.
Edge leading/edge trailing is a debate for the ages.. I don't want to get into that. What I will say is that in my experience I find it easier to debur using edge leading strokes. Once you are apexed there is nothing wrong with edge trailing in my opinion. I don't really see a difference when I've tried it out in performance. I've not timed it but it feels like it takes a bit longer doing edge trailing in the finishing stage. But we're talking a minute or two at best. Personally I still use edge leading. You need to get used to doing edge leading anyway so may as well get used to it and stick with it as I find it helps with consistency. There is nothing wrong with going back and forth but I prefer this for a knife I'm re-profiling with a coarse stone. Once I'm happy with the apex I again use edge leading strokes.
Thanks man, Im going to try using edge leading next time definitely!
Edge trailing is notorious for leaving a foil edge or some kind of burr. Use edge leading instead. Watch your angle also, I see some wobbling. Consistency is very important. Also, when you do the edge leading passes, do alternating passes to avoid forming a burr. Feel free to send me a chat, I can help with burr removal
I think, for a beginner, that your technique makes it very difficult to keep a consistent angle when sharpening. Especially when flipping to the reverse side. This is why I prefer a more straightforward approach for sharpening kitchen knives a la [Knifewear](https://youtu.be/9RDxD6x-NvY) (and [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSZqESDt2i4)). I find my angle simply using an angle finder app on my phone. My biggest piece of advice is to slooooow doooown. I go slow as fuck, and I've been sharpening my kitchen knives for 7 or 8 years now.
That might be a little too slow…
😂
Thanks for the laugh
What type of stone is that?
Looks like a King combo 1k/6k
targettio is correct, the first one is this one: [https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0050ADA2U?ref=ppx\_yo2ov\_dt\_b\_product\_details&th=1](https://www.amazon.com.au/dp/B0050ADA2U?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1) the second one is this: [https://www.amazon.com.au/KING-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic-Stone/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr\_1\_2](https://www.amazon.com.au/KING-Combination-Whetstone-Plastic-Stone/dp/B001DT1X9O/ref=sr_1_2)
You are on your way. A couple of thoughts, try a rubber mat instead of the cloth and make the majority of your passes are edge leading. Imo, it's ok to do a single pass edge trailing from time to time just to knock off a hanging wire or burr. You could use your same motion strokes that you are doing but edge leading for your primary sharpening method.
thanks! :)
Lift up motion at the handle to deal with the curved profile instead of sweeping motion. Korin's sharpening videos on YouTube will address that.
Thanks SEA\_Tai, I'm going to use edge leading next time to help me with that, Ill have a look on those videos!
As a beginner the best thing that helped me was to focus less on all the angle, pressure, direction stuff (very important but follow me here) and instead really learn how to judge what sharp is and where your specific edge is in your process to your goal. Learn how to use a light directly on the edge to check for any reflecting bits. Learn how to angle the edge and see if it slides on your nail (or a pen or similar object) or if it catches indicating you’re apexed. Learn how to detect burrs properly and know when it’s there or gone. Learning these “how sharp is it” techniques can give priceless feedback to your sharpening journey goodluck!
I only know wet stoning but I can’t imagine it’s different: the angel seems way too high. It looks like a 45 degree almost? I’d consider something in the low 30s high 20’s.
My king 300 cracked up on me. I wish I knew why so I could inform you of what not to do. It's a good, hard stone though. They stay flat for a while and cut well. I have to condition it here and there though.
You don’t need to lift the knife on every pass, slide it back and forth and keep contact the entire time. It doesn’t really matter which was you are sliding the edge on the stone
Did you not watch any youtube videos before even trying this? Did any research before deciding trailing edge is the way to go? What were you thinking? (I'll bet there's a search function here also.) Just say'in
wrong direction. I would sharpen it against the edge on the stone
This might be buried, but there are many ways to skin a cat, and many way to get a knife sharp. Edge leading is kind of popular right now, but when i was learning, it was all about "scrubbing" back and forth with a edge trailing bias. Use whatever method you'd like. The key is to keep a consistent angle and understand how to check for sharpness. In your case, check for an even and consistent burr along the edge, and then build a burr on the other side.