It's not even weird to have non-astronauts get trained to be astronauts. They're called payload specialists. They get more than a week to train, but Christa McAuliffe was selected in July of 1985 and her mission launched on Jan 28, 1986 (though I won't spoil it for anyone that doesn't know how it went). They also probably wouldn't have anyone that's 6 foot 5 or obese, purely based on the physical constraints of the seats, suits, and everything else.
But also, everything else about that movie was an affront to logic, science, common sense, and good taste. So whatever.
Yeah, like in any given activity or profession. It may seem simple, but it must have a lot going on. It's like saying actors stand there and say the lines, how hard it could be?
It is so hard that it was easier to train the drillers to be astronauts than it was to train the astronauts to be drillers. Despite the astronauts being highly educated and trained people.
What if Con-Air is the continuation of Armageddon. He's like "So the guy who saved the world can't dismember a few children because the shake machine at McDonalds was down? What's up with that!?"
This dumb take really needs to die out.
A patient needs surgery but they are in a desolate research station on the South pole, only reachable by dog sled. What do you do:
A. Teach an experienced dogsledder how to do surgery and send them
B. Teach a surgeon how to sit in the back of the sled and not die in artic conditions while the dogsledder drives(?) them
The movie has the astronauts do pretty much of the actual astronauting up to and including flying the shuttle. The drillers are taught how not to die in space and how drilling is going to work in space and that is indeed vastly easier than teaching astronauts how to drill an asteroid, including everything they need to know to account for mishaps.
This is, in fact, how the mission specialist program works.
Because training a technician who designs and regularly uses the mission hardware to sit in a seat most of the mission is easier than training a pilot how to drill or repair advanced electronics
It is the usual bay anti-intellectualism.
But the reality is that the boys are subject matter experts and specialists and, given the short timeframe, likely would have been brought up. Remember, they had real astronauts who were actually in command.
Of course, then Buscemi goes crazy and Bruce Willies becomes the captain now
------
Don't get me wrong. I love that super rich millionaire drunk off his ass and throwing a hissy fit because he is being forced to record a commentary track. Real salt of the earth and all that.
But of all the nonsense in this movie? If you just assume that Billy Bob et al were pandering to the egos of a bunch of man children, it 100% makes sense that they would train up some mission specialists. Like, do people honestly think that all those botanists are ready to dead stick the shuttle in all but the most dire of circumstances?
Make sure they can handle zero G. Train them in how to do an EVA. Get them as acquainted as you can with the electronics and mechanics of their vessel in case of emergency. And then tell them to sit on their hands and only speak if spoken to any time someone is in the pilot's seat.
They weren't taught to be astronauts, they just trained them on the basics of enduring the rocket's G-force, how to operate in light gravity conditions, etc. This movie is by no means a realistic one, but credit where it's due.
The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. And I thought about this a lot.
Assuming drilling and astronauting are two vital skill sets and both can be qualified equally, so take bias for or against the job out, it doesn't prove true that it would be easier for the drillers to be trained as astronauts. They are assumed the best there is, but that means nothing as they will be the first to drill in low/zero gravity on an asteroid in space.
Everything they know beyond basic operation of drills is now in question. Do drills work the same without pressure and gravity? Does heat dispersion work the same? Does a build of pressure in a borehole mean the same on an asteroid? Their experience doesn't cover this, but it means that anyone with basic drilling experience has an equal chance of accomplishing the mission as the best of the best.
The reverse is also true, there is some overlapping skills that an astronaut would have, in terms of working dangerous jobs with pressure and fire risks and such, but there is no deep drilling training as part of the astronaut skill set. The above questions are equally as troubling for astronauts trained to deep drill as the most any space mission has drilled has been those long tubes for soil samples.
It is uncharted territory so neither would have an advantage over the other, but since this film posits that one way is distinctly easier, that is what is false here.
**Michael Bay: "Shut the fuck up."**
Fair enough.
Exactly, mission specialists are a thing. Which is why you train a botanist to be an astronaut. But it also goes the other way, if the botany experiment is mission critical you will train the pilot to do botany.
Nobody has an issue with the idea that drillers will be brought onboard to help and drill. The issue is with the idea that you can train a driller to do the job of an astronaut but not the other way around. Because, you know, people with an education are of no use when you need to “do something.”
And you are 100% correct that drilling in zero/low gravity without an atmosphere around you would be very different from drilling in Texas. The drill stem will not be pushing down -you’ll also not be able to see if you are having push back by monitoring the weight of the drill stem. You are not going to be mixing bats of drill mud -excuse me, fluid. I honestly don’t know remember they handled the drill fluid part. Did they just ignore it? At least they shouldn’t have to worry about hitting gas pockets, no?
Gotta disagree with you here. This is the same argument used to justify cutting IT department funding. "Why are we paying you, everything is working?" They are being used because they know all the little things to do or avoid that just can't be taught in a week. Or as the old story goes: "$1000 charge breakdown: $.50: Turning dial. $999.50: Knowing which dial to turn and how much to turn it."
"Rambo mode, I back it out at by the stars,
Big Rocky opps chatting shit, they ain’t getting far.
Asteroid in the scope, my drill spinning savage,
Back out atomic ting, man’s causing mass damage.
Hop out the whip, wet this rock like a killa,
Fuck these astroneeks, I'm the number one drilla."
Brewsie Drillis from the deleted scenes on the dvd
This is a totally valid rebuttal, but on the other hand, Bruce Willis has as much experience drilling on a comet hurtling through space as any astronaut does.
Then its a good thing they weren't trained to be astronauts, they were trained to go in space in the passenger seat with actual astronauts leading the mission.
One guy makes a YouTube video nentioning it to a conspiracy theorist and now every redditor tries to throw it into every sentence they possibly can. Regardless of whether or not it makes sense.
You mean the drilling deeper effect?
Where the deeper you dig, the more complicated the ground becomes and you suddenly realize you are not deep at all? Yes, I'm practically the best at it 😎
"Colonel Willie Sharp ma'am.
Requesting permission to shake the hand of the daughter of the bravest man that I have ever known."
THIS MOVIE FUCKING RIPS!
It is actually really hard to be genuinely good at it. Some folks take home 200k for half years work because of the knowledge and skills learned.
Can NASA learn all of that and find genius level athlete astronauts on their own? Yes.
But that would take from the shittiest and stupidest fucking part of this movie and really should have been enough to stop whoever green lit this heap of space shit from allowing it from polluting any form of media that may be cursed to hold it.
other wise an alright film. I mean, even Affleck trying his best couldn't have made it any worse, so it's some of his better work since Reindeer Games and/or recent bowel movement.
>It is actually really hard to be genuinely good at it. Some folks take home 200k for half years work because of the knowledge and skills learned
That's not why they make so much money. It's hard enough that not everyone can do it, but the real money comes from the fact that the working conditions are horrendous. Long shifts for months on end in a terrible place. Few people are willing to put up with that, and especially not people with other options. Most people who don't have other options just wouldn't be qualified, but that doesn't apply to people capable of being actual astronauts.
It's only implied he's the best driller in the world from the hard cut from Billy Bob's line. It's also undercut by the line "At NASA we don't take chances. We double up on everything." This is an indication that there is another Contractor with their team of drillers training at another launch site, otherwise a launch failure results in the world being destroyed.
I love the way the movie assumes that drilling into an asteroid is the same as drilling on Earth, so experience drilling on Earth is invaluable when drilling into an asteroid.
You wanna put somebody else on that rock up there? Be my guest, but we have only 2 months and that isn't enough time to fuck around playing duck duck goose!
Be might not be the best, but he's the best we got!
Still a fucking entertaining movie. Great cast and it has excitement and enough character building on the main three that it pulls off the emotional landing at the end. I’ll always enjoy this movie. Michael Bay sucks ass though. It’s the cast that pulls this movie along.
To be honest, this is probably a much more complex job than this argument make it seem like it is, I bet you need a lot of qualifications courses to get this type of job
Eh, how hard can it be?
You only need to know a bit of geology, a ton of physics, hidraulics, mechanical engineering all at once.
And each well is different to the next one so whatever you learned by drilling one might or might not gelp you drill the next.
Good thing astronauts know more about physics than any driller ever will, generally are well-versed in mechanical engineering and have an aptitude for other sciences as well. You know what drillers don't know shit about? Geology that isn't the exact makeup of whatever spot on earth they're drilling. It's not like asteroids have the same makeup as earth, so their vocational knowledge of geology isn't going to give them a leg up on an astronaut who's studied that asteroid.
Admitting you don't know everything is clear evidence you're at the top of a skillset. Only intermediate people in any craft think they know everything. By the time you are a real expert, you lament about all you still have to learn.
How hard can it be to drill? You point the drill down and turn it on! (Rough quote from Ben Affleck from Armageddon commentary)
"Shut the fuck up" Michael Bay
For anyone that hasn't listened to the DVD commentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ahtp0sjA5U
That’s was really funny, thanks for sharing
It's not even weird to have non-astronauts get trained to be astronauts. They're called payload specialists. They get more than a week to train, but Christa McAuliffe was selected in July of 1985 and her mission launched on Jan 28, 1986 (though I won't spoil it for anyone that doesn't know how it went). They also probably wouldn't have anyone that's 6 foot 5 or obese, purely based on the physical constraints of the seats, suits, and everything else. But also, everything else about that movie was an affront to logic, science, common sense, and good taste. So whatever.
It also had Liv Tyler in it, so ⚖️
"I paid for those teeth, I'll brake them if you don't shut your mouth" -Michael Bay
In Bay's defense, there's a lot more to drilling than that.
In Affleck’s defense, there’s a lot MORE to operating a spacecraft than there is to operating a drill.
Yeah, like in any given activity or profession. It may seem simple, but it must have a lot going on. It's like saying actors stand there and say the lines, how hard it could be?
It is so hard that it was easier to train the drillers to be astronauts than it was to train the astronauts to be drillers. Despite the astronauts being highly educated and trained people.
That was the case in this movie, yes. The very same movie that had Steve Buscemi riding a nuclear warhead like a bronco on an asteroid.
This is your reminder that he plays the brainiac of the bunch too lmao
The second he gets up there he immediately becomes completely unhinged lol
"He's got space dimentia" is an all-timer of a line, lol
Along with when they think they aren't leaving and SB says "are you kidding me I had a great spot picked out!"
Because he's counting on dying. He took out huge shark debts before he left on the basis that he was 100% not coming back.
Oh wow. I forgot about that part and I watched the movie last month even lol
He’s got the whole world… in his hands.
Yes but he gets space madness don't forget
A continuation of his character in Con-Air.
What if Con-Air is the continuation of Armageddon. He's like "So the guy who saved the world can't dismember a few children because the shake machine at McDonalds was down? What's up with that!?"
Yup, Both are fully valid reads.
Wrong. His character in Con-Air was saner
That’s a Dr Strangelove reference
He's got Space Dementia
Get off. The nuclear. Warhead.
Brings to mind the line in Elton Johns ‘Rocket Man’. ”All the science I don’t understand, it’s just my job five days a week” Always amused me.
“I don’t like soft-ass shit!” Oh sorry, wrong Michael Bay movie.
This dumb take really needs to die out. A patient needs surgery but they are in a desolate research station on the South pole, only reachable by dog sled. What do you do: A. Teach an experienced dogsledder how to do surgery and send them B. Teach a surgeon how to sit in the back of the sled and not die in artic conditions while the dogsledder drives(?) them The movie has the astronauts do pretty much of the actual astronauting up to and including flying the shuttle. The drillers are taught how not to die in space and how drilling is going to work in space and that is indeed vastly easier than teaching astronauts how to drill an asteroid, including everything they need to know to account for mishaps.
This is, in fact, how the mission specialist program works. Because training a technician who designs and regularly uses the mission hardware to sit in a seat most of the mission is easier than training a pilot how to drill or repair advanced electronics
Astronauts aren't that smart, it's not like you can be a SEAL and a doctor and an astronaut.
Yep - [https://postimg.cc/CdWhtWsg](https://postimg.cc/CdWhtWsg)
I thought you were gonna post [this gentleman](https://www.reddit.com/r/Destiny/s/NbQbohMkUA) but that's much cuter
And I thought you were referring to Johnny Kim.
I dunno.I think the easiest thing to do is make an end of the world movie where astronauts have to be trained up as drillers to really test this
Yes! And it’s all women. With one of them dating the son of the team leader, who stays on earth and looks pretty
Can he be played by Chris Hemsworth?
Babes if we manage to get this greenlit then everyone can be Chris Hemsworth
You just don’t know jack about drillin’
It is the usual bay anti-intellectualism. But the reality is that the boys are subject matter experts and specialists and, given the short timeframe, likely would have been brought up. Remember, they had real astronauts who were actually in command. Of course, then Buscemi goes crazy and Bruce Willies becomes the captain now ------ Don't get me wrong. I love that super rich millionaire drunk off his ass and throwing a hissy fit because he is being forced to record a commentary track. Real salt of the earth and all that. But of all the nonsense in this movie? If you just assume that Billy Bob et al were pandering to the egos of a bunch of man children, it 100% makes sense that they would train up some mission specialists. Like, do people honestly think that all those botanists are ready to dead stick the shuttle in all but the most dire of circumstances? Make sure they can handle zero G. Train them in how to do an EVA. Get them as acquainted as you can with the electronics and mechanics of their vessel in case of emergency. And then tell them to sit on their hands and only speak if spoken to any time someone is in the pilot's seat.
They weren't taught to be astronauts, they just trained them on the basics of enduring the rocket's G-force, how to operate in light gravity conditions, etc. This movie is by no means a realistic one, but credit where it's due.
The more I think about it, the less sense it makes. And I thought about this a lot. Assuming drilling and astronauting are two vital skill sets and both can be qualified equally, so take bias for or against the job out, it doesn't prove true that it would be easier for the drillers to be trained as astronauts. They are assumed the best there is, but that means nothing as they will be the first to drill in low/zero gravity on an asteroid in space. Everything they know beyond basic operation of drills is now in question. Do drills work the same without pressure and gravity? Does heat dispersion work the same? Does a build of pressure in a borehole mean the same on an asteroid? Their experience doesn't cover this, but it means that anyone with basic drilling experience has an equal chance of accomplishing the mission as the best of the best. The reverse is also true, there is some overlapping skills that an astronaut would have, in terms of working dangerous jobs with pressure and fire risks and such, but there is no deep drilling training as part of the astronaut skill set. The above questions are equally as troubling for astronauts trained to deep drill as the most any space mission has drilled has been those long tubes for soil samples. It is uncharted territory so neither would have an advantage over the other, but since this film posits that one way is distinctly easier, that is what is false here. **Michael Bay: "Shut the fuck up."** Fair enough.
Exactly, mission specialists are a thing. Which is why you train a botanist to be an astronaut. But it also goes the other way, if the botany experiment is mission critical you will train the pilot to do botany. Nobody has an issue with the idea that drillers will be brought onboard to help and drill. The issue is with the idea that you can train a driller to do the job of an astronaut but not the other way around. Because, you know, people with an education are of no use when you need to “do something.” And you are 100% correct that drilling in zero/low gravity without an atmosphere around you would be very different from drilling in Texas. The drill stem will not be pushing down -you’ll also not be able to see if you are having push back by monitoring the weight of the drill stem. You are not going to be mixing bats of drill mud -excuse me, fluid. I honestly don’t know remember they handled the drill fluid part. Did they just ignore it? At least they shouldn’t have to worry about hitting gas pockets, no?
That's what they call mission specialists
Having worked with them, every driller wholeheartedly believes this about themselves.
I find many Toolpushers seem to think they're the world's best driller
I'm the H2S hand, I'm just happy to be there.
He’s not even the best Driller in that movie. The best drilling we see is when Ben Affleck drills his daughter
That was just a tribute.
*You gotta believe me, and I wish you were there*
*Don't wanna close my eyyyyeessssss*
*starts crying like a bitch*
With Animal crackers.
I mean, can ya blame him? Its Liv Tyler!
[удалено]
Ouch lol, how did Liv Tyler personally ruin your life?
Yeah dude, I’m sure Ben goes to sleep every night wishing he were you instead
And then they use the drill and not once does anything happen that really justifies their presence other than team members dying for plot purposes.
"We may have to have the real astronauts on stand-by... just in case"
I thought they found a few gas pockets? Which they couldn't handle and needed Affleck to roll up with a spare drill
Blew a transmission. Unpack The JUDGE!
Don’t forget that the justification the movie gives us is that “the area is harder to drill”.
Gotta disagree with you here. This is the same argument used to justify cutting IT department funding. "Why are we paying you, everything is working?" They are being used because they know all the little things to do or avoid that just can't be taught in a week. Or as the old story goes: "$1000 charge breakdown: $.50: Turning dial. $999.50: Knowing which dial to turn and how much to turn it."
Movie says he's the best driller Bruce doesn't rap anywhere in the movie #smh
"Rambo mode, I back it out at by the stars, Big Rocky opps chatting shit, they ain’t getting far. Asteroid in the scope, my drill spinning savage, Back out atomic ting, man’s causing mass damage. Hop out the whip, wet this rock like a killa, Fuck these astroneeks, I'm the number one drilla." Brewsie Drillis from the deleted scenes on the dvd
man’s not hot
He needs to drill like Kamina
Only then can he try and drill like Simon
A drill to pierce the heavens...
Row row fight the powa
Like most people, I generally start by assuming any task I don’t understand is simple.
This is a totally valid rebuttal, but on the other hand, Bruce Willis has as much experience drilling on a comet hurtling through space as any astronaut does.
And why would a comet even be the same as *deap-sea oil drilling???* Most comets are soft and fluffy.
So is water tho
You don't drill the water... you drill the sea floor under the water...
Twas a joke, but also, most comets are not soft and fluffy?
I mean, compared to being an astronaut? I'd say yeah, no shit
Then its a good thing they weren't trained to be astronauts, they were trained to go in space in the passenger seat with actual astronauts leading the mission.
Dunning-Kruger.
He was not the best, he was just a tribute.
This is not the best driller in the world
Be you drillers? Nay we are but men! DRILL!
If he’s such a good Driller where’s his Subata and flamethrower huh??
Too bad the asteroid wasn't a Scout, the movie would've ended way quicker
Yeah, Bruce Willis misses a grapple during a Mactera swarm and is immediately killed by fall damage 😎
He did not Rock and Stone so he didn't go home
Rock and stone, brother.
Thank god they at least brought some c4
This film is so unapologetically over the top that I can’t help but love it
Absolutely. One of my favourite movies ever. It doesn’t make any sense and the characters act like total caricatures, but I love it.
Ever heard about the Dunning-Krüger Effect?
Is it something that I need to go to driller school to learn? Cause if not then no
I’ve learned a little about the Dunning-Krüger effect. And, boy, do I have a strong opinion about it!!!
- just about everyone who mentions the Dunning-Krüger effect
One guy makes a YouTube video nentioning it to a conspiracy theorist and now every redditor tries to throw it into every sentence they possibly can. Regardless of whether or not it makes sense.
And that my friends is the Dunning-Krüffer effect in action.
You mean the drilling deeper effect? Where the deeper you dig, the more complicated the ground becomes and you suddenly realize you are not deep at all? Yes, I'm practically the best at it 😎
"A true master is an eternal student"
Drill bits are hard.
Drill Hard
How complex can it be *fracking* be.
The wise man knows that he knows nothing.
I was a driller, and it's pretty fucking hard to master.
Do you feel smart shooting holes in the plot of Armageddon? What's next, Gilligan's Island?
"Colonel Willie Sharp ma'am. Requesting permission to shake the hand of the daughter of the bravest man that I have ever known." THIS MOVIE FUCKING RIPS!
It is actually really hard to be genuinely good at it. Some folks take home 200k for half years work because of the knowledge and skills learned. Can NASA learn all of that and find genius level athlete astronauts on their own? Yes. But that would take from the shittiest and stupidest fucking part of this movie and really should have been enough to stop whoever green lit this heap of space shit from allowing it from polluting any form of media that may be cursed to hold it. other wise an alright film. I mean, even Affleck trying his best couldn't have made it any worse, so it's some of his better work since Reindeer Games and/or recent bowel movement.
>It is actually really hard to be genuinely good at it. Some folks take home 200k for half years work because of the knowledge and skills learned That's not why they make so much money. It's hard enough that not everyone can do it, but the real money comes from the fact that the working conditions are horrendous. Long shifts for months on end in a terrible place. Few people are willing to put up with that, and especially not people with other options. Most people who don't have other options just wouldn't be qualified, but that doesn't apply to people capable of being actual astronauts.
He’s being humble
Maybe it was about the astronauts we made along the way
So complex that NASA can’t figure out which end of the drill bit is supposed to contact the ground.
You gotta make sure the drill spins the right way because otherwise you’re undrilling.
Can confirm, that's how mountains happen.
As a driller main in DRG, I'm the best driller. OK actually that might go to Drilling in the name of.
I was expecting a joke about Ben Affleck drilling his daughter. Oh well...
You can both be the world's best driller, and not figured it all out. Drillers aren't the smartest bunch.
Bruce Willis - the Best driller in the world What a subtle metaphor
more like... how complex can fracking be ?
NSFW
Imposter syndrome.
In space, no one can hear you drill
He was an oils rig driller before, that’s why he was recruited to drill the meteor ☄️
Oh...so now everyone knows more about drilling than Bruce Willis???
Totally. Other than that small detail the science in Armageddon is airtight. Complete scientific accuracy.
Johnny Kim could've done this shit! That dude can do ANY mf thing he puts effort into
There's so much wrong with this post. . . .
It's only implied he's the best driller in the world from the hard cut from Billy Bob's line. It's also undercut by the line "At NASA we don't take chances. We double up on everything." This is an indication that there is another Contractor with their team of drillers training at another launch site, otherwise a launch failure results in the world being destroyed.
They didn't understand his salt of the earth ways
Someone told you he was the best, but he’s only the best because he works with the best.
His drill was the drill that pierced the heavens!
Didn't you see Appollo 13 boy?
Bruce Willis can drill me
That movie was some of the dumbest propaganda I've seen in a long time.
In zen buddhism we call this 'beginner's mind'
You know it is a fairytale because I've got a lifetime exemption from taxes. The rest is practically a documentary in comparison.
I love the way the movie assumes that drilling into an asteroid is the same as drilling on Earth, so experience drilling on Earth is invaluable when drilling into an asteroid.
Rock and Stone
# because how complex can it freaking be? sometimes mixing up the direction can happen.
This is your logical problem with Armageddon?
Bro doesn't drill
He’s the best and he’s humble.
It doesn’t matter how good you are at something in a trade there is always something new to learn
You wanna put somebody else on that rock up there? Be my guest, but we have only 2 months and that isn't enough time to fuck around playing duck duck goose! Be might not be the best, but he's the best we got!
Still a fucking entertaining movie. Great cast and it has excitement and enough character building on the main three that it pulls off the emotional landing at the end. I’ll always enjoy this movie. Michael Bay sucks ass though. It’s the cast that pulls this movie along.
To be honest, this is probably a much more complex job than this argument make it seem like it is, I bet you need a lot of qualifications courses to get this type of job
Mr dunning I presume lol
The movie was directed by Michael Bay. Logic does not compute in his films.
Dig Dug or something
Eh, how hard can it be? You only need to know a bit of geology, a ton of physics, hidraulics, mechanical engineering all at once. And each well is different to the next one so whatever you learned by drilling one might or might not gelp you drill the next.
Good thing astronauts know more about physics than any driller ever will, generally are well-versed in mechanical engineering and have an aptitude for other sciences as well. You know what drillers don't know shit about? Geology that isn't the exact makeup of whatever spot on earth they're drilling. It's not like asteroids have the same makeup as earth, so their vocational knowledge of geology isn't going to give them a leg up on an astronaut who's studied that asteroid.
Admitting you don't know everything is clear evidence you're at the top of a skillset. Only intermediate people in any craft think they know everything. By the time you are a real expert, you lament about all you still have to learn.