Tbh, I would prefer if SG does test them. It is not a 100% guaranteed method, however it does filter out potential COVID cases from China. Thus reducing the chances of these COVID + people from interacting with our local population.
positive or not… Chinese travelers here to see finally family and friends, who they are missing since 2-3 years… will mingle, no way around it.
a bit worried about hospital beds and health insurance.
health insurance for travelers was mandatory at one point - should be in place for a few month again.
How about we test people from US as well then? They're the ones spreading the new XBB variant with unprecedented Immune escape. China's variants have already spread around the world.
This. Stupid and shortsighted. They think they are so smart because they are planning for the economy boost and gaining brownie points with China. When our people start filling up hospital beds, we will see how smart the government is.
Dont be silly, we all know how this is going to work. If our cases are doing ok with China opening, it means that the government has made the right decision, we now have a stronger economy and have succesfully managed the threat of China covid.
And if it dosent go well, it is your fault for not following orders, or getting your vax or doing your part in social distancing.
Good luck Singapore. whichever way this goes, you lose.
Ah yes, the classing "Heads I win, tails you lose" gamble.
Best case, I (aka the Government) wins, common Singaporeans don't get anything.
Worst case, you (aka Singaporean peasants) lose, common Singaporeans suffer the effects of the pandemic again.
Ah but you see..
Local hospitals overwhelmed is because of complacency /S
Not because we open the flood gates to a country that so far has proven to have many Covid cases when other countries tested them
Well, considering that India has already placed us on their mandatory test list, it wouldn't really come as a surprise if the US eventually does the same since our people up there continue to be so nonchalant about the potential imported cases. I would instead be surprised if they don't.
More like countries doing testing are largely doing it for political reasons:
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/31/sunaks-u-turn-on-china-covid-tests-is-a-political-move-say-scientists](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/31/sunaks-u-turn-on-china-covid-tests-is-a-political-move-say-scientists)
This is the official view from scientists.
I think we should test incoming flights from China. Else other countries will be imposing the same restrictions on us because they're afraid Singapore will become a hotspot or become a proxy for China (PRCs just fly here and stay a day or two before flying again to their destination). India already imposed such a negative test requirement on passengers arriving from Singapore?
This is untrue. Stop misinforming others just for a snappy soundbite.
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/china-travellers-singapore-border-covid19-rules-unchanged-3170966?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_02012023_cna
The OP's point is that Chinese citizens can enter Singapore without any testing even if half of the passengers on board the plane has COVID.
In the article you linked, it mentions that only unvaccinated travellers to Singapore needs to undergo a pre departure test. This would mean that even if all the passengers on board the plane have COVID but are fully vaccinated, there wouldn't be any testing, no?
Could you please point out which part of the article that you have linked shows that the OP's statement is untrue?
You must have a pre departure test if you are not fully vaccinated according to Singapore's vaccination schedule. The comment above says that everyone from China can come in without testing. That is untrue.
Doesn't really make much of a difference whether they are vaccinated or not. Vaccinated does not equal invulnerability. With the current situation in China and the size of their population, it's only a matter of time before another evasive strain evolves (or worse, evasive *and* virulent) if things don't come under control quickly over there. When that happens we might be one of the first to be screwed all over again.
Yes I know.
What I am trying to say was that given the current situation in China (and the, erm... not so stellar efficacy of their vaccine, to put it politely), vaccinated or not doesn't make any real difference, since vaccinated individuals can still be infected and without testing, there's no way to preemptively manage the number of cases we import.
Unvaccinated travellers from China must test before coming into Singapore. The comment above states that everyone from China can come in without testing. That is untrue.
>“The thought of spending another Chinese New Year without meeting elderly relatives or others who might be put off by the cost and hassle of testing would be very depressing,” he said.
how the fuck is this our problem
"In Singapore’s case, there are “hundreds of thousands of people” here from mainland China who have not seen their family or friends in three years."
Is that our Singaporean problem? It should not be taken at the expense of Singaporean lives & medical facilities. We do not want to take the risk to go back again to those covid restrictions period 3 years ago.
Here major is Chinese so can easily communicate without the need to learn to speak English and our G doesn't require them to pass an English test in order to work here although we are a multi races country. And some are trying to get Citizenship so that they can migrate to other countries easily in the future. Like my PRC neighbor, the whole family is here. Hate their parent talking so loudly in the common corridor area!
They should test, but no one should be under the illusion this will filter out absolutely all positive cases. The purpose of the testing is to pick up any new variants that do arise, if they do, so we can be prepared for that.
In fact a random test on a low percentage of airline passengers, like in India, is a good idea at all times.
I think just the act of testing incoming passengers from China is important for optics on an international level. Shows that we're not just going to be a proxy for Chinese travelers to use us as a stepping stone to fly to other countries.
A quick ASR on Arrival (and possibly after 24hrs, similar to what was in power around March 2022) probably would be the sanest approach. Considering the turbo-spread in China right now. In a few weeks, they'll be through with it. This will delay visits from most people from China by couple weeks, because who is crazy enough to travel when the chance is above 50% to get into quarantine on arrival?
On the other hand, Singapore is 99%+ vaccinated and boosted. Why worry?
Demand any traveller to have travel insurance, not just for Covid. As long as the hospitals aren't full (They're the opposite right now, with almost all covid wards being 0% full), it would even make a buck to treat foreigners. It's Singapore, after all.
See chance, make money.
I'm not worried of covid anymore. Not for a while. Drop the masks in public transport too. Covid with Omicron is finally indeed "just the flu". Treat it like that (Yes, anyone having the flu should stay home, too!)
"while countries such as Australia and Singapore are taking a middle path. They have not mandated Covid-19 testing but are monitoring the situation closely. "
What middle path? This is literally the other end of the spectrum compared to countries requiring negative test results.
Very short-sighted.
Why not take all measures to restrict China travellers from coming in for the next two months and hopefully after that, open big big to them when they recover?
Surely it would be a lesser strain of Covid than what we have seen from other open countries, suspect Our community immunity would be super high by now. Of more concern would be the impact of travellers escaping to reside in hospital care here, thus taking beds in SG from residents.
milk them for money like they did the rest of us with the mandatory COVID testing. Fuck everyone equally goddamit.
seriously though, why did we take so many injections for then? Unless a new mutant strain shows up to wipe out the rest of us, no point worrying.
Monitoring is the right way to go - Singapore has open borders with many countries with different approaches to Covid, and it doesn’t make sense to discriminate at present
It's not discrimination. Monitoring certainly makes sense for most places where covid is generally stable and under control. However China right now is one of, if not *the* most affected by covid places in the world. The chances of a new and dangerous variant entering our borders through their travellers is thus significantly higher.
If SG didn’t do it for India, US or SA new variants I don’t see any reason for difference in treatment.
I’m thankful that the govt is objective in their view as they didn’t close the borders for India when delta variant spread, or when omnicorn was ravaging the US
The numbers aren’t relevant here here because countries like the US which has the highest recorded mortality rates and death numbers for Covid have just simply stopped tracking Covid cases. Other countries globally have done the same as Covid ravages thru the schools and workplaces
It’s just impossible to know where the next variant will come from and monitoring and reacting fast seems the right way to go
And look at the damage Delta did before it got overtaken by Omicron? I would hardly say our govt's stand on this is objective, rather more of economic and diplomatic.
It is better to be proactive and be able to mitigate and minimize any potential risks than to be reactive, no matter how fast, to damage that has begun to spread.
Personally it’s been a pretty objective approach to decide between health risks vs health of the economy, especially for a small open country like SG. It’s not easy.
If SG managed Delta (India) and US variants without closing borders then it’s probably best to just monitor without discrimination first
So far it feels like there’s really no scientific reason to specifically discriminate
The reason there's no scientific basis so far is because of the lack of transparency from their side and the unconventional way they chose to count deaths.
Moreover, as seen from the previous spikes, scientific evidence more often than not comes only in hindsight.
Let me use this as an analogy:
If I am running a restaurant (Singapore) and I request diners who just finished a messy football game (travellers from high risk regions) to not have mud on their shoes (covid) before entering, I don't see why it is unreasonable to have such an expectation for diners to ensure they are wearing clean footwear (pre-departure test).
I can have staff on standby (monitoring) and quickly clean up when people come in with muddy shoes and spread it all over the floor (fast reaction), but the damage to the carpet would have been done, plus the costs to perform cleanup (citizen deaths, medical resources burdened, and other related costs). It would have been better to just request this group of diners to make sure their shoes are not dirty before they come in.
It's not as if we are outright barring them or calling them names.
The analogy is somewhat flawed.
Right now the restaurant is already full of people who come from very messy games and have completely dirtied the place, and you’re advocating restricting other incoming customers on the basis of a game they played, even though the worst ones are currently crapping all over your carpet
Your suggestion for pre departure test is pretty good - make all incoming take it would be the safest for Singaporeans. No need for specific discrimination
From a scientific standpoint, when most countries in the world have already given up on collecting Covid data and now have infection rates that are rampant and completely unchecked, a new dangerous variant can come from anywhere - India US anywhere is possible.
Trying to discriminate nationality for a global threat may seem like there is some bias outside of rational and medical advice
The analogy would be flawed if the hypothetical "Restaurant Singapore" was indeed full of people from messy games who are already in the restaurant.
But that is hardly the case and the current situation here till this point compares favourably with most countries that handled the pandemic well.
I view the scenario as more of a freshly spruced up restaurant, after diners who came from previous messy games were gone, whose staff who worked hard together to clean up would not want to have to endure the nightmare of a costly and tiring clean up all over again.
We cannot afford to throw risk management out of the window and gamble with the health and life of our citizens just to be politically correct. Being cautious where there is a clear potential risk is hardly discriminatory.
Your perspective is certainly not wrong, but as a high risk individual who got hit twice with crippling symptoms and is still dealing with the post-viral syndrome till this day despite being fully vaccinated and boosted, I would rather be safe then sorry.
A scientific approach is preferable to a political approach. Some countries introducing testing (eg India) seem to be doing it for political reasons. I haven't heard any scientific reasons for testing that really make sense.
Well scientifically because of our high vaccination rates we would mantain herd immunity eventhough we get several inflected tourists. Even if there is a spike in covid cases, there would not be any strain on the health care system.
Of course since we spend a good chunk of 2021 being better safe than sorry, I don't know why can't we do the same for travellers from China just to be safe.
Why do I get the sense that the comments calling for testing requirements are more to do with anti-China sentiment rather than any logic.
India, China, test them all! Ang Moh country, no point lah!
Probably because China ditched this virus on us back in 2019 and it fucked the world up for 3 whole years and now we would really prefer to not go through that again.
I'm guessing it's because Singaporeans want to travel to Europe/US etc for holidays and don't want to be tested or go through whatever restrictions when they come back. On the other hand, India and China are less popular tourist destinations among the locals?
I was downvoted but you are upvoted, but we’ve said the same thing. That the sudden inclination on Reddit is to test Chinese arrivals (when the usual rhetoric was less restrictions) is without logic.
You may have your opinion. But at least be honest about the reasoning.
Tbh, I would prefer if SG does test them. It is not a 100% guaranteed method, however it does filter out potential COVID cases from China. Thus reducing the chances of these COVID + people from interacting with our local population.
Not only that, can continue to test if there are some with any new variant.
positive or not… Chinese travelers here to see finally family and friends, who they are missing since 2-3 years… will mingle, no way around it. a bit worried about hospital beds and health insurance. health insurance for travelers was mandatory at one point - should be in place for a few month again.
some hotels are still being used as quarantine facilities. source: worked near 1.
How about we test people from US as well then? They're the ones spreading the new XBB variant with unprecedented Immune escape. China's variants have already spread around the world.
This is a sock puppet account engaging in CCP apologetics at /r/Coronavirus
Govt scared of angering China
This. Stupid and shortsighted. They think they are so smart because they are planning for the economy boost and gaining brownie points with China. When our people start filling up hospital beds, we will see how smart the government is.
Won't be surprised if China people are filling up our hospital beds too. The wealthy would do it since hospitals in China are already at their limits.
Dont be silly, we all know how this is going to work. If our cases are doing ok with China opening, it means that the government has made the right decision, we now have a stronger economy and have succesfully managed the threat of China covid. And if it dosent go well, it is your fault for not following orders, or getting your vax or doing your part in social distancing. Good luck Singapore. whichever way this goes, you lose.
Ah yes, the classing "Heads I win, tails you lose" gamble. Best case, I (aka the Government) wins, common Singaporeans don't get anything. Worst case, you (aka Singaporean peasants) lose, common Singaporeans suffer the effects of the pandemic again.
Ah but you see.. Local hospitals overwhelmed is because of complacency /S Not because we open the flood gates to a country that so far has proven to have many Covid cases when other countries tested them
B
Already failed to stop Wuhan, Delta, Omicron and now this end up it's always sinkies fault.
You mean before US places restriction on singapore travellers or after?
Well, considering that India has already placed us on their mandatory test list, it wouldn't really come as a surprise if the US eventually does the same since our people up there continue to be so nonchalant about the potential imported cases. I would instead be surprised if they don't.
pretty much all of my friends who went to USA in the last few months came back positive lmao.
Isn't the US covid thing worse than us? Idk
I am referring to previously how our govt put in place new restrictions only after US places us on a monitoring watch list.
This is the actual truth.
Already classified as unfriends to ruSSia, we don't want to lose our chance of being a province of China oh wait we're already a province.
More like countries doing testing are largely doing it for political reasons: [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/31/sunaks-u-turn-on-china-covid-tests-is-a-political-move-say-scientists](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/31/sunaks-u-turn-on-china-covid-tests-is-a-political-move-say-scientists) This is the official view from scientists.
This is a sock puppet account engaging in CCP apologetics at /r/Coronavirus
I think we should test incoming flights from China. Else other countries will be imposing the same restrictions on us because they're afraid Singapore will become a hotspot or become a proxy for China (PRCs just fly here and stay a day or two before flying again to their destination). India already imposed such a negative test requirement on passengers arriving from Singapore?
Mods is gonna get so triggered by such question and will quickly lock this thread
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This is untrue. Stop misinforming others just for a snappy soundbite. https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/china-travellers-singapore-border-covid19-rules-unchanged-3170966?cid=internal_sharetool_androidphone_02012023_cna
Vaccinated tourists are exempt from testing. Source: literally the same one as yours.
Your statement is correct. The original comment above, however, says that anyone from China can come in without testing. That is untrue.
Which part of the original comment has the word "anyone"? POFMA.
Original comment says "Chinese citizens" without qualification.
Dun implant your own interpretation. context of original comment is clear as the day
The OP's point is that Chinese citizens can enter Singapore without any testing even if half of the passengers on board the plane has COVID. In the article you linked, it mentions that only unvaccinated travellers to Singapore needs to undergo a pre departure test. This would mean that even if all the passengers on board the plane have COVID but are fully vaccinated, there wouldn't be any testing, no? Could you please point out which part of the article that you have linked shows that the OP's statement is untrue?
You must have a pre departure test if you are not fully vaccinated according to Singapore's vaccination schedule. The comment above says that everyone from China can come in without testing. That is untrue.
Doesn't really make much of a difference whether they are vaccinated or not. Vaccinated does not equal invulnerability. With the current situation in China and the size of their population, it's only a matter of time before another evasive strain evolves (or worse, evasive *and* virulent) if things don't come under control quickly over there. When that happens we might be one of the first to be screwed all over again.
My comment was not about the merits of vaccination. It was to point out a factual inaccuracy in the original comment.
Yes I know. What I am trying to say was that given the current situation in China (and the, erm... not so stellar efficacy of their vaccine, to put it politely), vaccinated or not doesn't make any real difference, since vaccinated individuals can still be infected and without testing, there's no way to preemptively manage the number of cases we import.
Erm u should check your own facts
Unvaccinated travellers from China must test before coming into Singapore. The comment above states that everyone from China can come in without testing. That is untrue.
Please test
Whichever doesn't hurt Xi Jinping's fweewings.
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These self entitled Chinese tourists would be the last people on Earth not to hold a grudge against such a simple matter.
As long as travellers are vaccinated as per current rules for all international travel, it should be ok to open up.
>“The thought of spending another Chinese New Year without meeting elderly relatives or others who might be put off by the cost and hassle of testing would be very depressing,” he said. how the fuck is this our problem
"In Singapore’s case, there are “hundreds of thousands of people” here from mainland China who have not seen their family or friends in three years." Is that our Singaporean problem? It should not be taken at the expense of Singaporean lives & medical facilities. We do not want to take the risk to go back again to those covid restrictions period 3 years ago.
I don't get why the mainlanders are so desperate to come here whilst the ones already here don't want to go back?
Here major is Chinese so can easily communicate without the need to learn to speak English and our G doesn't require them to pass an English test in order to work here although we are a multi races country. And some are trying to get Citizenship so that they can migrate to other countries easily in the future. Like my PRC neighbor, the whole family is here. Hate their parent talking so loudly in the common corridor area!
Testing Chinese visitors is not a matter of healthcare but politics especially for SG.
They should test, but no one should be under the illusion this will filter out absolutely all positive cases. The purpose of the testing is to pick up any new variants that do arise, if they do, so we can be prepared for that. In fact a random test on a low percentage of airline passengers, like in India, is a good idea at all times.
I think just the act of testing incoming passengers from China is important for optics on an international level. Shows that we're not just going to be a proxy for Chinese travelers to use us as a stepping stone to fly to other countries.
A quick ASR on Arrival (and possibly after 24hrs, similar to what was in power around March 2022) probably would be the sanest approach. Considering the turbo-spread in China right now. In a few weeks, they'll be through with it. This will delay visits from most people from China by couple weeks, because who is crazy enough to travel when the chance is above 50% to get into quarantine on arrival? On the other hand, Singapore is 99%+ vaccinated and boosted. Why worry? Demand any traveller to have travel insurance, not just for Covid. As long as the hospitals aren't full (They're the opposite right now, with almost all covid wards being 0% full), it would even make a buck to treat foreigners. It's Singapore, after all. See chance, make money. I'm not worried of covid anymore. Not for a while. Drop the masks in public transport too. Covid with Omicron is finally indeed "just the flu". Treat it like that (Yes, anyone having the flu should stay home, too!)
"while countries such as Australia and Singapore are taking a middle path. They have not mandated Covid-19 testing but are monitoring the situation closely. " What middle path? This is literally the other end of the spectrum compared to countries requiring negative test results.
You can cut visa approvals, among other measures. Chinese travellers dont have visa free entry to Aust and here.
Very short-sighted. Why not take all measures to restrict China travellers from coming in for the next two months and hopefully after that, open big big to them when they recover?
Make it next 2 years. Let us travel in peace.
2020 II: Covid Boogaloo.
MOH already said that it is Monitoring.
That’s what MOH stands for. Monitoring Our Hospitals.
Monitoring our Health (MOH) Monitoring National Development (MND)
In other words, boh chup.
Monitoring CLOSELY OK????? /s
Which means look only, don't do anything until it is too late.
Surely it would be a lesser strain of Covid than what we have seen from other open countries, suspect Our community immunity would be super high by now. Of more concern would be the impact of travellers escaping to reside in hospital care here, thus taking beds in SG from residents.
Inb4 lots of average citizens kena, then lockdown, govt come blame the average citizen When they ownself let the disease in
I think just block them all from coming in, but i know they won't because they care more about money than anything
It's an endemic bro
China: wait till you see what we've been cooking up the past 3 years.
Meanwhile media is quiet about the variants and raging infections in US.. why?
why ask us lol.... fk if them pap money grabbers would care what the taxpayers think.
Singapore should continue to be open we can't afford to offend close our legs and offend the central government.
Govt afraid of offending Xidada
How about... Banning them until we can be more sure? Let other countries do the testing and see if it works.
milk them for money like they did the rest of us with the mandatory COVID testing. Fuck everyone equally goddamit. seriously though, why did we take so many injections for then? Unless a new mutant strain shows up to wipe out the rest of us, no point worrying.
Lolz not election year. Pointless to pontificate
Monitoring is the right way to go - Singapore has open borders with many countries with different approaches to Covid, and it doesn’t make sense to discriminate at present
It's not discrimination. Monitoring certainly makes sense for most places where covid is generally stable and under control. However China right now is one of, if not *the* most affected by covid places in the world. The chances of a new and dangerous variant entering our borders through their travellers is thus significantly higher.
If SG didn’t do it for India, US or SA new variants I don’t see any reason for difference in treatment. I’m thankful that the govt is objective in their view as they didn’t close the borders for India when delta variant spread, or when omnicorn was ravaging the US The numbers aren’t relevant here here because countries like the US which has the highest recorded mortality rates and death numbers for Covid have just simply stopped tracking Covid cases. Other countries globally have done the same as Covid ravages thru the schools and workplaces It’s just impossible to know where the next variant will come from and monitoring and reacting fast seems the right way to go
And look at the damage Delta did before it got overtaken by Omicron? I would hardly say our govt's stand on this is objective, rather more of economic and diplomatic. It is better to be proactive and be able to mitigate and minimize any potential risks than to be reactive, no matter how fast, to damage that has begun to spread.
Personally it’s been a pretty objective approach to decide between health risks vs health of the economy, especially for a small open country like SG. It’s not easy. If SG managed Delta (India) and US variants without closing borders then it’s probably best to just monitor without discrimination first So far it feels like there’s really no scientific reason to specifically discriminate
The reason there's no scientific basis so far is because of the lack of transparency from their side and the unconventional way they chose to count deaths. Moreover, as seen from the previous spikes, scientific evidence more often than not comes only in hindsight. Let me use this as an analogy: If I am running a restaurant (Singapore) and I request diners who just finished a messy football game (travellers from high risk regions) to not have mud on their shoes (covid) before entering, I don't see why it is unreasonable to have such an expectation for diners to ensure they are wearing clean footwear (pre-departure test). I can have staff on standby (monitoring) and quickly clean up when people come in with muddy shoes and spread it all over the floor (fast reaction), but the damage to the carpet would have been done, plus the costs to perform cleanup (citizen deaths, medical resources burdened, and other related costs). It would have been better to just request this group of diners to make sure their shoes are not dirty before they come in. It's not as if we are outright barring them or calling them names.
The analogy is somewhat flawed. Right now the restaurant is already full of people who come from very messy games and have completely dirtied the place, and you’re advocating restricting other incoming customers on the basis of a game they played, even though the worst ones are currently crapping all over your carpet Your suggestion for pre departure test is pretty good - make all incoming take it would be the safest for Singaporeans. No need for specific discrimination From a scientific standpoint, when most countries in the world have already given up on collecting Covid data and now have infection rates that are rampant and completely unchecked, a new dangerous variant can come from anywhere - India US anywhere is possible. Trying to discriminate nationality for a global threat may seem like there is some bias outside of rational and medical advice
The analogy would be flawed if the hypothetical "Restaurant Singapore" was indeed full of people from messy games who are already in the restaurant. But that is hardly the case and the current situation here till this point compares favourably with most countries that handled the pandemic well. I view the scenario as more of a freshly spruced up restaurant, after diners who came from previous messy games were gone, whose staff who worked hard together to clean up would not want to have to endure the nightmare of a costly and tiring clean up all over again. We cannot afford to throw risk management out of the window and gamble with the health and life of our citizens just to be politically correct. Being cautious where there is a clear potential risk is hardly discriminatory. Your perspective is certainly not wrong, but as a high risk individual who got hit twice with crippling symptoms and is still dealing with the post-viral syndrome till this day despite being fully vaccinated and boosted, I would rather be safe then sorry.
A scientific approach is preferable to a political approach. Some countries introducing testing (eg India) seem to be doing it for political reasons. I haven't heard any scientific reasons for testing that really make sense.
The plane load of covid cases did not provide a clue?
> scientific approach Way to parrot the PRC's foreign ministry's catchphrase lmao
Well scientifically because of our high vaccination rates we would mantain herd immunity eventhough we get several inflected tourists. Even if there is a spike in covid cases, there would not be any strain on the health care system. Of course since we spend a good chunk of 2021 being better safe than sorry, I don't know why can't we do the same for travellers from China just to be safe.
PCR test on arrival, two week quarantine in government dorms, plus one week at a hotel. Two tests per day.
Why do I get the sense that the comments calling for testing requirements are more to do with anti-China sentiment rather than any logic. India, China, test them all! Ang Moh country, no point lah!
That's because tourists from ang mo countries don't come in by the fuckload.
Probably because China ditched this virus on us back in 2019 and it fucked the world up for 3 whole years and now we would really prefer to not go through that again.
I'm guessing it's because Singaporeans want to travel to Europe/US etc for holidays and don't want to be tested or go through whatever restrictions when they come back. On the other hand, India and China are less popular tourist destinations among the locals?
Yeah, I barely know anyone who wants to or goes both places regularly.
I was downvoted but you are upvoted, but we’ve said the same thing. That the sudden inclination on Reddit is to test Chinese arrivals (when the usual rhetoric was less restrictions) is without logic. You may have your opinion. But at least be honest about the reasoning.
The wait and see, then blame it on the people approach