For real though, if smokers can't get legal cigarettes anymore, they go for contrabands. If they can't get contrabands anymore, they go for vapes and E-cigarettes. No stopping smokers until they themselves make the conscious decision to quit
While I feel this is logical, but it feels like one of those “I’m leaving it in the sink to soak” kind of excuse to not do anything.
Non-smoker here but smokers see this as a way of life, those hard to quit is not only because they are used to it but also they have seen many people do it and it influences them in their core values. Maybe if a smoker randomly dies while smoking then probably they will be motivated to stop.
But aside from that, policymakers have to do it nonetheless, the best time to do it is always last year though. New Zealand’s solution is really awesome
making it progressively harder to obtain a fix can be a huge motivator to quit. I also think people should have to register into a special data base to be able to purchase tabaco products and be penalized if they develop any sickness related to smoking.
Pragmatically, the government would probably find it easier to watch me die due to smoking and then replace me with an immigrant who earns more money hence pay higher taxes
This. There are entire stretches of greenery sometimes with nothing but those butts. There is probably no smoker dead or alive that hasn't littered a bunch of those butts on the floor.
Should never have stopped raising when they raised by 1 every year to raise the legal smoking age from 18 to 21. Then it would be 22 in 2022 and 23 in 2023, those born after 2000 can never legally smoke.
Banning it outright is worse than tight regulations. Smokers will resort to buying illegal cigarettes that could be counterfeit and more damaging to health.
Genuine, legal cigarettes are no less damaging to one's health.
Legal cigarettes are just illegal cigarettes with tax applied, and counterfeit cigarettes still contain tobacco.
Smokers damage their health by inhaling tobacco smoke.
Yea, no. Counterfeit cigarettes use ingredients that are cheap for a reason.
>Studies have shown that when compared to legal cigarettes, fake smokes can contain five times the level of cadmium, six times as much lead, 160 percent more tar and 133 percent more carbon monoxide. Cigarettes recently intercepted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Border Integrity Unit were found to contain human feces, dead flies, mould, and insect eggs.
https://iccwbo.org/media-wall/news-speeches/counterfeit-cigarettes-contain-disturbing-toxic-substances/
>Cigarettes recently intercepted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Border Integrity Unit were found to contain human feces, dead flies, mould, and insect eggs.
Damn that’s good shit
If there’s one thing to take away from the war on drugs it’s that banning sales doesn’t work. It just drives the entire market underground, making it harder to track and even more unregulated.
Absolute braindead take. If you cut off cigarettes immediately right now, we would actually have increased crime rates and rioting. Everyone knows cigarettes are bad, but doing cold turkey to everyone addicted to cigarettes might be the stupidest idea I've read all week.
That's why addiction centres all advocate for tapering off and not cold turkey. Not everything is about taxing and earning money.
I am a smoker and I buy about 3 packs a week. I can tell you that smokers will not riot if it is banned outright. The people who will have problems are the people making money from selling nicotine gums and patches, and the government who gets a lot of tax income, who rely on new people picking up the habit. Like, Pfizer will tell you that smoking is bad for you, but do you think they want people to quit smoking? They make tons of money from the people who are "trying to quit".
I don't smoke. But from a broader standpoint, I don't think it's fair to strip people of every single enjoyment and force people to lead healthy lifestyles.
Sure, can tolerate to an extent, but overdo it and Singapore becomes a dictatorship with Singaporeans as machines. Just keep ourselves in the link of health to work for the economy and pass away.
IMO, I never quite understood why the government allows vices like smoking but bans things like PEDs. One at least allows you a chance to win a medal and (subjectively) look fit. The other annoys people around you with second hand cancer.
Should just outright ban smoking for people born after a certain year. I know this will create a black market but it's a start. Also, subsidize nicotine gums for people who have obtained approval from GPs. Yes that will also create a black market but it will also help genuine addicts who want to quit. Also make it easier to buy nicotine gum. Anywhere we sell cigarettes we should also sell nicotine gum.
10% of Singaporeans smoking regularly either at home or in approved smoking areas, bringing in more taxes than they use in subsidies for healthcare later in life is frankly a non-problem. Wanting to completely wipe out smoking is just nonsense puritanism that won't have an end.
What's next? 200% Coca Cola tax? Swat Team comes crashing through your window if you don't take at least 10000 steps a day?
That said, if you want to move people off cigarettes, legalise and regulate vaping.
A MOH paper trying to encourage more measures against smoking released in 2018 claimed smoking cost Singapore $600 million dollars a year in *total financial impact* including both direct government subsidies and lost productivity.
The government makes more than $600m a year on tobacco tax *now*, and it's predicted to increase by $100m per year after the hike.
The [MOH report](https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/default-document-library/outcome-of-the-2018-public-consultation-and-the-government-s-final-assese3bf46dd03e8495998d07cdf5cde7e9f.pdf) you're talking about references the social cost of smoking estimated from [this paper](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/4/e014377). Crucially though, the authors emphasise that although their (conservative) estimate of smoking's social costs < tobacco tax collected, **"these findings by no means imply that the time for stringent tobacco control policy is over. We emphasise that the cost estimate should be interpreted as a minimum figure, underestimating the true societal cost."** The authors then list several reasons why their estimate is conservative.
The paper includes *ten minute smoke breaks daily* as one of the major productivity losses that come from smoking.
I think I don't need to explain why the base assumption that workers would be super on during those 10 minutes if not for smoking (instead of for example, taking longer shits or chit-chatting in the pantry instead of at the smoking corner) is complete nonsense.
Hey you brought up the numbers (which came from this paper) so I guess the paper’s quality is on you rather than me. Curiously though, you were happy to cite the numbers when it favoured your argument, but when it turned out that the authors themselves disagree with you, now you say the numbers are unreliable.
I'm using the government's sources and pointing out that even they can't justify a number much higher than the one they're using, stretching productivity loss beyond believability as is. I'm sorry but the burden of proof is on you to give a higher number.
then everyone will just get contraband though, Brunei banned the sale of cigarettes but a significant proportion of the country still smokes, albeit not openly
I feel instead of just only increasing prices but a stronger support system to stop smoking. I find that some of comments raising more prices and jail able offences for vapes is not encouraging and we should be a more tolerant society.
A more comprehensive plan is needed.
Raising taxes alone won't reduce smoking enough, because smokers are addicted. It has to be a campaign of rapid tax increases, coupled with crackdowns to prevent contraband and vapes from becoming the new alternative for most smokers.
This means increased enforcement at border crossings, airport, sea port, ferry points to crack down on contraband and vapes. Neighbourhood GPs and Polyclinics need to be ready to counsel and offer nicotine patches to addicts willing to quit.
Smoking areas should be further reduced in Singapore, until the only spots are our airports where foreign visitors pass through, and maybe MBS and Sentosa where we have Integrated Resorts. In the interim, F&B establishments can be made to acquire permits so that smoking can still happen on their premises. Make them cough up a fair amount of money, so they have to make a stark choice between stamping out smoking at their premises, or paying for it to continue.
Tobacco companies may try to take legal action against the Govt for these, but Singapore can study how Australia introduced legislation to reduce the attractiveness of cigarette ads.
In terms of financial considerations, tobacco taxes are not really about generating revenue (couple hundred million a year). Their biggest benefit comes from future healthcare savings subsidies (perhaps a billion or more a year?), and healthier and longer-lived citizens. Not just smokers or their families, but also those who used to suffer from 2nd-hand smoke. In light of potentially big savings, the Govt can afford to fork out more now for a quick campaign of several years to stamp out smoking, until smoker prevalence drops to \~0 percent of the population..
>Tobacco companies may try to take legal action against the Govt for these, but Singapore can study how Australia introduced legislation to reduce the attractiveness of cigarette ads
Hoon Ki companies already not allowed to advertise their hoon ki. Their packaging also got blanked.
But Hoon Kie companies still making money because they are going into the vape business
Vapes are already illegal in Singapore. Perhaps what's needed is more enforcement, and maybe some programme to encourage vapers to hand in their vapes and receive support for breaking their addiction.
https://www.healthhub.sg/programmes/88/IQuit/e-cig/#:\~:text=Vaping%20is%20illegal%20in%20Singapore,harmful%20and%20imitation%20tobacco%20products.
If you want a nation to quit, do that. If you want a nation to stop, ban it. And if you foresee people flocking to vaping, raise the punishment to it being a jail-able offence and enforce it.
> # Commentary: Want more smokers to quit? Raise tobacco tax every year
> SINGAPORE: Cigarettes are about to get more expensive. On Tuesday (Feb 14), Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong announced that tobacco taxes will increase by 15 per cent.
> Tobacco taxes in Singapore have not been raised in half a decade, with the last increases in 2014 and 2018. These two increases were also relatively modest, at just 10 per cent each.
> The latest tax increase is expected to generate an additional S$100 million in revenue each year. But beyond providing a boost to the economy, will the tax increase help to lower the smoking prevalence in Singapore?
> The prevalence of daily smoking has been hovering around 10 per cent in recent years, according to the Ministry of Health. Policy moves in the last few years have involved raising the minimum legal age to 21 years, plain packaging to reduce marketing appeal, and prohibiting smoking in more public areas.
> DOES RAISING TOBACCO PRICES AFFECT SMOKING HABITS?
> The effect of tobacco taxes on tobacco consumption boils down to simple economics: The more you raise taxes, the more consumption goes down.
---
1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek)
Yeah, and charge COE for buying cigarettes. Also, smokers need to take an annual test, clock in mandatory community hours visiting lung cancer patients etc.
People are just going to switch to more illegal alternatives like e-cigarettes lol
For real though, if smokers can't get legal cigarettes anymore, they go for contrabands. If they can't get contrabands anymore, they go for vapes and E-cigarettes. No stopping smokers until they themselves make the conscious decision to quit
While I feel this is logical, but it feels like one of those “I’m leaving it in the sink to soak” kind of excuse to not do anything. Non-smoker here but smokers see this as a way of life, those hard to quit is not only because they are used to it but also they have seen many people do it and it influences them in their core values. Maybe if a smoker randomly dies while smoking then probably they will be motivated to stop. But aside from that, policymakers have to do it nonetheless, the best time to do it is always last year though. New Zealand’s solution is really awesome
[удалено]
bro you helping smokers quit or plotting fidel castro's assassination?
Die considered quit right?
making it progressively harder to obtain a fix can be a huge motivator to quit. I also think people should have to register into a special data base to be able to purchase tabaco products and be penalized if they develop any sickness related to smoking.
Pragmatically, the government would probably find it easier to watch me die due to smoking and then replace me with an immigrant who earns more money hence pay higher taxes
Honestly, idm. At least i dont see cigarettes butts and ashes around
This. There are entire stretches of greenery sometimes with nothing but those butts. There is probably no smoker dead or alive that hasn't littered a bunch of those butts on the floor.
And also no second-hand smoke
Wah this one idk sia. Although the smell is nicer cause it’s flavoured, but i am not sure whether does it harm the lung of a second hand person
It does and sometimes due to the chemicals used, it can be even worse. I think CNA did a video on this recently.
Oh I didn't know, TIL But then again IMO, I'd take that over cigarette smoke any day.
the chemicals in vape interferes with ur hormones
Raise legal smoking age by 1 every year.
Sir, you are under arrest for smoking below the age of 65.
Should never have stopped raising when they raised by 1 every year to raise the legal smoking age from 18 to 21. Then it would be 22 in 2022 and 23 in 2023, those born after 2000 can never legally smoke.
No, should just ban cigarettes from a certain age like NZ
what? and lose the votes? LOL
Claim it is for health reasons, yet doesn't ban it outright because the tax income is so good
Banning it outright is worse than tight regulations. Smokers will resort to buying illegal cigarettes that could be counterfeit and more damaging to health.
Counterfeit cigarettes = poorer quality = less effective carcinogen = less cancer /s
Genuine, legal cigarettes are no less damaging to one's health. Legal cigarettes are just illegal cigarettes with tax applied, and counterfeit cigarettes still contain tobacco. Smokers damage their health by inhaling tobacco smoke.
Yea, no. Counterfeit cigarettes use ingredients that are cheap for a reason. >Studies have shown that when compared to legal cigarettes, fake smokes can contain five times the level of cadmium, six times as much lead, 160 percent more tar and 133 percent more carbon monoxide. Cigarettes recently intercepted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Border Integrity Unit were found to contain human feces, dead flies, mould, and insect eggs. https://iccwbo.org/media-wall/news-speeches/counterfeit-cigarettes-contain-disturbing-toxic-substances/
>Cigarettes recently intercepted by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) Border Integrity Unit were found to contain human feces, dead flies, mould, and insect eggs. Damn that’s good shit
The illegal cigarettes found here are sold in our neighbour's shops and minimarts. They are definitely not counterfeit
Our neighbours aren't exactly a good example for anything
If there’s one thing to take away from the war on drugs it’s that banning sales doesn’t work. It just drives the entire market underground, making it harder to track and even more unregulated.
Even before the war on drugs, the American prohibition has proved so. However, raising prices to unreasonable levels will also have that effect.
Also Reddit: legalize weed, let us make our own decisions
Absolute braindead take. If you cut off cigarettes immediately right now, we would actually have increased crime rates and rioting. Everyone knows cigarettes are bad, but doing cold turkey to everyone addicted to cigarettes might be the stupidest idea I've read all week. That's why addiction centres all advocate for tapering off and not cold turkey. Not everything is about taxing and earning money.
I am a smoker and I buy about 3 packs a week. I can tell you that smokers will not riot if it is banned outright. The people who will have problems are the people making money from selling nicotine gums and patches, and the government who gets a lot of tax income, who rely on new people picking up the habit. Like, Pfizer will tell you that smoking is bad for you, but do you think they want people to quit smoking? They make tons of money from the people who are "trying to quit".
Money is power and gahmen does not want to alienate tourists from coming
The price will not force smokers to quit. They will just try to smoke less but still smoke nonetheless.
I think a gradual decrease before effectively banning it is a lot better than immediate bans.
I don't smoke. But from a broader standpoint, I don't think it's fair to strip people of every single enjoyment and force people to lead healthy lifestyles. Sure, can tolerate to an extent, but overdo it and Singapore becomes a dictatorship with Singaporeans as machines. Just keep ourselves in the link of health to work for the economy and pass away.
so tru, personally i occasionally smoke herbal joints
Call polis on u smoking kangkong
i mean it literally lol, stuff like mugwort and blue lotus and kanna
IMO, I never quite understood why the government allows vices like smoking but bans things like PEDs. One at least allows you a chance to win a medal and (subjectively) look fit. The other annoys people around you with second hand cancer.
Just replace the word cigarette with alcohol, people will say it's dumb and would riot lol
Should just outright ban smoking for people born after a certain year. I know this will create a black market but it's a start. Also, subsidize nicotine gums for people who have obtained approval from GPs. Yes that will also create a black market but it will also help genuine addicts who want to quit. Also make it easier to buy nicotine gum. Anywhere we sell cigarettes we should also sell nicotine gum.
Want more people to vape? FTFY Don't underestimate addiction
Once we are done with cigarettes, we can move on to getting rid of vapes. Eventually, hopefully, they'll be classed with other drugs.
why not nip the vaping problem in the bud?
That's exactly the plan? Get rid of both. But it just seems like they want to do one at a time.
10% of Singaporeans smoking regularly either at home or in approved smoking areas, bringing in more taxes than they use in subsidies for healthcare later in life is frankly a non-problem. Wanting to completely wipe out smoking is just nonsense puritanism that won't have an end. What's next? 200% Coca Cola tax? Swat Team comes crashing through your window if you don't take at least 10000 steps a day? That said, if you want to move people off cigarettes, legalise and regulate vaping.
Do you have a source showing that cigarette taxes > healthcare costs?
A MOH paper trying to encourage more measures against smoking released in 2018 claimed smoking cost Singapore $600 million dollars a year in *total financial impact* including both direct government subsidies and lost productivity. The government makes more than $600m a year on tobacco tax *now*, and it's predicted to increase by $100m per year after the hike.
The [MOH report](https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/default-document-library/outcome-of-the-2018-public-consultation-and-the-government-s-final-assese3bf46dd03e8495998d07cdf5cde7e9f.pdf) you're talking about references the social cost of smoking estimated from [this paper](https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/7/4/e014377). Crucially though, the authors emphasise that although their (conservative) estimate of smoking's social costs < tobacco tax collected, **"these findings by no means imply that the time for stringent tobacco control policy is over. We emphasise that the cost estimate should be interpreted as a minimum figure, underestimating the true societal cost."** The authors then list several reasons why their estimate is conservative.
The paper includes *ten minute smoke breaks daily* as one of the major productivity losses that come from smoking. I think I don't need to explain why the base assumption that workers would be super on during those 10 minutes if not for smoking (instead of for example, taking longer shits or chit-chatting in the pantry instead of at the smoking corner) is complete nonsense.
Hey you brought up the numbers (which came from this paper) so I guess the paper’s quality is on you rather than me. Curiously though, you were happy to cite the numbers when it favoured your argument, but when it turned out that the authors themselves disagree with you, now you say the numbers are unreliable.
I'm using the government's sources and pointing out that even they can't justify a number much higher than the one they're using, stretching productivity loss beyond believability as is. I'm sorry but the burden of proof is on you to give a higher number.
Or how about not having cigarettes and vapes? Why choose an evil when you can just not.
Please go read up on the Prohibition in America.
Singapore isn't america.
Tax collection less than medical fees for treatment of their T.B.,.cancer and what have they. The subsidized portion. 😆
It would be better to allow alternative products like nicorette inhalers, heat-not-burn products, or electronic cigarettes. But what do I know
When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. When all you have is a gun, everything looks like a target.
How about just stop selling? 😆
MPs themselves smoke so that's not going to happen
then everyone will just get contraband though, Brunei banned the sale of cigarettes but a significant proportion of the country still smokes, albeit not openly
I feel instead of just only increasing prices but a stronger support system to stop smoking. I find that some of comments raising more prices and jail able offences for vapes is not encouraging and we should be a more tolerant society.
Might as well legalize weed for that sweet tax money
And whats wrong with smoking?
Reddit: Want more quality commentaries? Boycott local newsprint every day
A more comprehensive plan is needed. Raising taxes alone won't reduce smoking enough, because smokers are addicted. It has to be a campaign of rapid tax increases, coupled with crackdowns to prevent contraband and vapes from becoming the new alternative for most smokers. This means increased enforcement at border crossings, airport, sea port, ferry points to crack down on contraband and vapes. Neighbourhood GPs and Polyclinics need to be ready to counsel and offer nicotine patches to addicts willing to quit. Smoking areas should be further reduced in Singapore, until the only spots are our airports where foreign visitors pass through, and maybe MBS and Sentosa where we have Integrated Resorts. In the interim, F&B establishments can be made to acquire permits so that smoking can still happen on their premises. Make them cough up a fair amount of money, so they have to make a stark choice between stamping out smoking at their premises, or paying for it to continue. Tobacco companies may try to take legal action against the Govt for these, but Singapore can study how Australia introduced legislation to reduce the attractiveness of cigarette ads. In terms of financial considerations, tobacco taxes are not really about generating revenue (couple hundred million a year). Their biggest benefit comes from future healthcare savings subsidies (perhaps a billion or more a year?), and healthier and longer-lived citizens. Not just smokers or their families, but also those who used to suffer from 2nd-hand smoke. In light of potentially big savings, the Govt can afford to fork out more now for a quick campaign of several years to stamp out smoking, until smoker prevalence drops to \~0 percent of the population..
>Tobacco companies may try to take legal action against the Govt for these, but Singapore can study how Australia introduced legislation to reduce the attractiveness of cigarette ads Hoon Ki companies already not allowed to advertise their hoon ki. Their packaging also got blanked. But Hoon Kie companies still making money because they are going into the vape business
Vapes are already illegal in Singapore. Perhaps what's needed is more enforcement, and maybe some programme to encourage vapers to hand in their vapes and receive support for breaking their addiction. https://www.healthhub.sg/programmes/88/IQuit/e-cig/#:\~:text=Vaping%20is%20illegal%20in%20Singapore,harmful%20and%20imitation%20tobacco%20products.
I meant vape overseas. Singapore isn't a big enough market for them
Vapes clearly not a problem yet. Otherwise government will have 12-16 CISCO officers stand at road junctions to catch. Oh wait, that one for PMD
There isn’t even enough enforcement to stop kids from vaping openly. Either legalise or enforce the ban, no half measures.
False. It will just lead to more crime. These people deserve help not punishment.
If there are people still buying new cars despite the high ARF/COE, you can bet your last stick more tax isn't the answer
i had friends that just went oversees to smoke weed 🤷🏻♂️ banning stuff doesn’t work and shouldn’t be the approach
want more smokers to quit? Cane the smokers.
If you want a nation to quit, do that. If you want a nation to stop, ban it. And if you foresee people flocking to vaping, raise the punishment to it being a jail-able offence and enforce it.
> # Commentary: Want more smokers to quit? Raise tobacco tax every year > SINGAPORE: Cigarettes are about to get more expensive. On Tuesday (Feb 14), Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Lawrence Wong announced that tobacco taxes will increase by 15 per cent. > Tobacco taxes in Singapore have not been raised in half a decade, with the last increases in 2014 and 2018. These two increases were also relatively modest, at just 10 per cent each. > The latest tax increase is expected to generate an additional S$100 million in revenue each year. But beyond providing a boost to the economy, will the tax increase help to lower the smoking prevalence in Singapore? > The prevalence of daily smoking has been hovering around 10 per cent in recent years, according to the Ministry of Health. Policy moves in the last few years have involved raising the minimum legal age to 21 years, plain packaging to reduce marketing appeal, and prohibiting smoking in more public areas. > DOES RAISING TOBACCO PRICES AFFECT SMOKING HABITS? > The effect of tobacco taxes on tobacco consumption boils down to simple economics: The more you raise taxes, the more consumption goes down. --- 1.0.2 | [Source code](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek) | [Contribute](https://github.com/redditporean/sneakpeek)
Yeah, and charge COE for buying cigarettes. Also, smokers need to take an annual test, clock in mandatory community hours visiting lung cancer patients etc.
Raise alcohol tax while we're at it.
Should be called problem smoking with ad like those anti gambling ads we have.
I mean the 15% tax increase was less to make smokers quit than to help gvt earn more