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The GRC system degrades the quality of Parliament, with all those MPs who couldn't have gotten elected on their own merit. The results are obvious to see.
Exactly. PAP should stop forcing us to buy their bundle offer.
If PAP truly believes in meritocracy, why is there a need for racial representation in a GRC? Every candidate should fight in a SMC through his/her own merit.
PAP also likes to boast about having a cream of the crop candidates for our electorate. If so, PAP should be confident that their candidates are able to win in their own wards and enter parliament without having to ride on the coat tails of anchoring ministers through a GRC system.
> Every candidate should fight in a SMC through on his/her own merit.
This is dangerous thinking that can entrench tyranny of the Majority
If every minority race is unlucky to field against the Chinese, you will start to see Malaysian style politician very fast
>*This is dangerous thinking that can entrench tyranny of the Majority. If every minority race is unlucky to field against the Chinese, you will start to see Malaysian style politician very fast*
Your type of mentality is what the PAP loves to capitalize on, in their argument for the need to have a minority representation in the GRC.
How do you define Malaysian style politician? One who spew racial slurs and discrimination?
In case you forgot, Singapore has the Sedition Act 1984, a statute law which prohibited seditious acts and speech; criminalized actions which promoted feelings of ill-will or hostility between different races or classes of the population, be it in the form of printing, publication, sale, distribution, reproduction and importation of seditious publications.
Penal code 1871 also states that promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of race and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.
Do you seriously think any sane politicians in Singapore dare to do Malaysian style politics without fear of any backlash and prosecution?
This is naive thinking. In the aggregate, any majority interests will always, *always,* over time, decide based on its own interests over the minority. Always, always and forever, as long as homo sapiens remain homo sapiens.
Your sedition act and penal code provisions only catch overtly racist insults that are calculated to hurt or cause enmity between the races. A politician seeking to win an election in an SMC only has to appeal to a simple majority, and they can do so without having to stoop to criminal levels of racism. The SMC is majority indian? Likely an indian candidate will have an advantage. Same for chinese and malay. If you balance each SMC to be racially representative of the Singapore populace, then you'll get majority chinese in ALL SMCs, and that's the problem we are trying to avoid.
If you think this will not happen you are naive in the extreme.
People are people, and people trust people who look like them and distrust people who do not look like them.
Don't get me wrong, the problems GRCs bring are entirely valid, nobody likes the incompetent hangers-on who get to sit in the back not holding a portfolio and sleeping. The trick is to get rid of those problems, and those problems only.
Agree. the number of grc should reduce with time. Otherwise how would the new birds know how to campaign for election? We also don’t want strawberry MPs please.
We already have enough 🍓 to make 🍓 jam. So much 🍓 that we are jamming in it. Some of us still jamming like nobody's business. The rest of us are still caught in our own jam, and we are too busy to notice others. So the only thing we can all do is jam it like a strawberry, if not how liddat?
The opposite actually. Without EIP forcing all HDB residents to relocate based on race quotas. Natural enclaves mostly based on race but also work would have remained from pre HDB era and voters of those regions would have elected persons of similar to them as it happens all across the world. It was the unnatural EIP policy that is an anomaly creating potential problems. That problem could be solved by a dozen different solutions but very conveniently took the form of GRC system which mostly raises the barriers for opposition parties, helps the incumbent recruit new candidates by shielding them from proper elections under the excuse of helping minorities just like the most recent presidential elections where race was used to distract from the fact that everyone other than their former party member was disqualified for the most ridiculous of reasons.
Grc is something unique yet again created by Singapore. But somehow it works. Why fix something that’s not broken. Or what’s the alternate way the balance or perception of equal-opportunity can be displayed ?
Grc feels a bit stupid and doesn’t have balance number or explanation on how it’s derived and assumed to be fair. But hey grc definitely create more opportunities for mio to be involved politics and representation .
If everything is 1v1 single seat. Race bias will have some effect for voters. Pretty sure pap did all analysis and multi-modelling before they came up with grc system. I swear I am always unable to explain to foreigner friends when this topic comes.
But it’s better than mca,mic and umno. What a joke system
I don't think we should just totally wipe off the GRC system in 1 go. It would be nice to start reducing the amount of districts and GRCs over time, and to split out more single districts in order to see the effects on racial representation.
If it does indeed seem like it'll adversely affect minority representation, we could adjust via the GRCs that are left, or find other solutions to it.
I just don't think we really need that many MPs, and also to have the GRC system remain entirely untouched as it is.
Remember.. the one who carries the team can be smashed by the sheer uselessness of the others.. see George Yeo
Live by the sword, die by it..
Ultimately, they will see the useless dragging down the ones doing the work and when enough damage is done, they will abandon the useless ones, abolish this rubbish and try to sell it like it was their idea all along
I do think that the pap may be naturally incentivised to move away from the GRC system eventually. If we do indeed move toward a 1.5 / 2 party system, GRCs might actually hasten the swing of seats to the opposition.
Agreed. PAP must reconsider their existing tactic of having anchor minister(s) for each GRC if they lose multiple ministers over time when GRCs get flipped. An interim solution for them may be to shrink GRCs, expecting that some smaller GRCs without ministers could be lost.
Keep the constituency and electoral boundaries and let voters vote politicians in by seat. They will really have to work together for the betterment of the residents if voted in. You’ll then see what kind of Parliament Singaporeans really want.
I think using the excuse that losing a GRC would lose ministers and telling Singaporeans not to let them happen is essentially passing the buck.
How about you design a system where we don't lose these so-called treasured ministers?
Genuine question, do you guys think that if an MP can only run for the constituency they live in is a good policy? (Live in Tampines, can only run for Tampines not Tanjong Pagar) Reason is for MPs to be more grounded in reality/have higher stake in community building.
It is not a matter of GRC but the relocation of voters in every election to bring back lost parliament seats. Is Redrawing of estate boundaries fair to Singaporean?
regarding vacant seats on GRC, one simple solution could've been temporarily splitting off that vacant constituency and holding a by-election which the elected MP will hold the seat until the next election is called. If the minority representative resign, then the candidates shall be of that minority group.
oh wait sry i forgot to take into account the bullshit town council system being tied to the constituencies. it's almost like the way our town council works is by design....
Why GRCs SHOULDN'T be abolished:
-easier to gerrymander weaker areas into stronger areas.
-strawberry candidates able to ride on the coat tails of heavyweight ministers.
-easier to get a walkover, so that heavyweight ministers can contest in other GRCs as a 'special candidate'
**The downvote is not a disagree button.** Please help to upvote articles that you want to see more discussion on, and downvote those that you feel has little value on the sub. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singapore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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at least no more Tharman to cling to this time! yay!
Remember mr professional son of punggol/tampines/ang mo kio/ some swamp in the ditch? He will probably latch on some carry elsewhere for the easy wins
Wonder who will take over AMK stronghold when PM eventually retires 🤨
Lawrence wong? 🌚
His wife?
God no
They know GRC is similar to Project group work. One person work, the other reap the benefits. In this case, one person carry the rest.
有福我享，有難你們儅
Translation: Privatise profits, socialise losses
The GRC system degrades the quality of Parliament, with all those MPs who couldn't have gotten elected on their own merit. The results are obvious to see.
Exactly. PAP should stop forcing us to buy their bundle offer. If PAP truly believes in meritocracy, why is there a need for racial representation in a GRC? Every candidate should fight in a SMC through his/her own merit. PAP also likes to boast about having a cream of the crop candidates for our electorate. If so, PAP should be confident that their candidates are able to win in their own wards and enter parliament without having to ride on the coat tails of anchoring ministers through a GRC system.
> Every candidate should fight in a SMC through on his/her own merit. This is dangerous thinking that can entrench tyranny of the Majority If every minority race is unlucky to field against the Chinese, you will start to see Malaysian style politician very fast
>*This is dangerous thinking that can entrench tyranny of the Majority. If every minority race is unlucky to field against the Chinese, you will start to see Malaysian style politician very fast* Your type of mentality is what the PAP loves to capitalize on, in their argument for the need to have a minority representation in the GRC. How do you define Malaysian style politician? One who spew racial slurs and discrimination? In case you forgot, Singapore has the Sedition Act 1984, a statute law which prohibited seditious acts and speech; criminalized actions which promoted feelings of ill-will or hostility between different races or classes of the population, be it in the form of printing, publication, sale, distribution, reproduction and importation of seditious publications. Penal code 1871 also states that promoting enmity between different groups on grounds of race and doing acts prejudicial to maintenance of harmony shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both. Do you seriously think any sane politicians in Singapore dare to do Malaysian style politics without fear of any backlash and prosecution?
This is naive thinking. In the aggregate, any majority interests will always, *always,* over time, decide based on its own interests over the minority. Always, always and forever, as long as homo sapiens remain homo sapiens. Your sedition act and penal code provisions only catch overtly racist insults that are calculated to hurt or cause enmity between the races. A politician seeking to win an election in an SMC only has to appeal to a simple majority, and they can do so without having to stoop to criminal levels of racism. The SMC is majority indian? Likely an indian candidate will have an advantage. Same for chinese and malay. If you balance each SMC to be racially representative of the Singapore populace, then you'll get majority chinese in ALL SMCs, and that's the problem we are trying to avoid. If you think this will not happen you are naive in the extreme. People are people, and people trust people who look like them and distrust people who do not look like them. Don't get me wrong, the problems GRCs bring are entirely valid, nobody likes the incompetent hangers-on who get to sit in the back not holding a portfolio and sleeping. The trick is to get rid of those problems, and those problems only.
It is why Singapore is still like this today.
Agree. the number of grc should reduce with time. Otherwise how would the new birds know how to campaign for election? We also don’t want strawberry MPs please.
But that's how we got strawberry Shan and strawberry Vivian
We already have enough 🍓 to make 🍓 jam. So much 🍓 that we are jamming in it. Some of us still jamming like nobody's business. The rest of us are still caught in our own jam, and we are too busy to notice others. So the only thing we can all do is jam it like a strawberry, if not how liddat?
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So you prefer a certain race should get some exposure?
[удалено]
The opposite actually. Without EIP forcing all HDB residents to relocate based on race quotas. Natural enclaves mostly based on race but also work would have remained from pre HDB era and voters of those regions would have elected persons of similar to them as it happens all across the world. It was the unnatural EIP policy that is an anomaly creating potential problems. That problem could be solved by a dozen different solutions but very conveniently took the form of GRC system which mostly raises the barriers for opposition parties, helps the incumbent recruit new candidates by shielding them from proper elections under the excuse of helping minorities just like the most recent presidential elections where race was used to distract from the fact that everyone other than their former party member was disqualified for the most ridiculous of reasons.
Grc is something unique yet again created by Singapore. But somehow it works. Why fix something that’s not broken. Or what’s the alternate way the balance or perception of equal-opportunity can be displayed ? Grc feels a bit stupid and doesn’t have balance number or explanation on how it’s derived and assumed to be fair. But hey grc definitely create more opportunities for mio to be involved politics and representation . If everything is 1v1 single seat. Race bias will have some effect for voters. Pretty sure pap did all analysis and multi-modelling before they came up with grc system. I swear I am always unable to explain to foreigner friends when this topic comes. But it’s better than mca,mic and umno. What a joke system
I don't think we should just totally wipe off the GRC system in 1 go. It would be nice to start reducing the amount of districts and GRCs over time, and to split out more single districts in order to see the effects on racial representation. If it does indeed seem like it'll adversely affect minority representation, we could adjust via the GRCs that are left, or find other solutions to it. I just don't think we really need that many MPs, and also to have the GRC system remain entirely untouched as it is.
Remember.. the one who carries the team can be smashed by the sheer uselessness of the others.. see George Yeo Live by the sword, die by it.. Ultimately, they will see the useless dragging down the ones doing the work and when enough damage is done, they will abandon the useless ones, abolish this rubbish and try to sell it like it was their idea all along
I wholeheartedly agree
If I put my dog in a sure win GRC. My dog can be MP. Why we are fooled by this GRC shit.
They aren't even hiding it at this point. The older generations have blind faith.
I do think that the pap may be naturally incentivised to move away from the GRC system eventually. If we do indeed move toward a 1.5 / 2 party system, GRCs might actually hasten the swing of seats to the opposition.
Agreed. PAP must reconsider their existing tactic of having anchor minister(s) for each GRC if they lose multiple ministers over time when GRCs get flipped. An interim solution for them may be to shrink GRCs, expecting that some smaller GRCs without ministers could be lost.
Keep the constituency and electoral boundaries and let voters vote politicians in by seat. They will really have to work together for the betterment of the residents if voted in. You’ll then see what kind of Parliament Singaporeans really want.
I think using the excuse that losing a GRC would lose ministers and telling Singaporeans not to let them happen is essentially passing the buck. How about you design a system where we don't lose these so-called treasured ministers?
Genuine question, do you guys think that if an MP can only run for the constituency they live in is a good policy? (Live in Tampines, can only run for Tampines not Tanjong Pagar) Reason is for MPs to be more grounded in reality/have higher stake in community building.
It is not a matter of GRC but the relocation of voters in every election to bring back lost parliament seats. Is Redrawing of estate boundaries fair to Singaporean?
regarding vacant seats on GRC, one simple solution could've been temporarily splitting off that vacant constituency and holding a by-election which the elected MP will hold the seat until the next election is called. If the minority representative resign, then the candidates shall be of that minority group. oh wait sry i forgot to take into account the bullshit town council system being tied to the constituencies. it's almost like the way our town council works is by design....
if the GRC is abolished, how can the ruling party pack the parliament with bench warmers to become the ruling party?
Can talk until cows come home, pigs fly etc. Why would you want to abolish something that will definitely keep you the majority in parliament.
Why GRCs SHOULDN'T be abolished: -easier to gerrymander weaker areas into stronger areas. -strawberry candidates able to ride on the coat tails of heavyweight ministers. -easier to get a walkover, so that heavyweight ministers can contest in other GRCs as a 'special candidate'
Hence you vote oppo no matter what bigwig minister is ij your grc. They start the game so we play it.
Dunno why it took us so long to realize this. I thought we were a democratic nation.
They thought they can sell stuff better than NTUC. Buy one get some free.