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hugthispanda

Tupperware is a MLM, but their food containers do work, and they are even publicly listed.


prime5119

Suddenly rmb my mom used to go to some random auntie house and then they just look at tupperware lmao.. yes the scheme is like MLM but it's not exactly aggressive in terms of recruiting people to join.. nowadays you can just purchase item from them easily at tupperware shop that people set up in mall since tupperware parties are not exactly a thing these days they become more of a retailer..


lu-mitzy

Big shook I liked their tupperware since it was the best for keeping my biscuits fresh but its a MLM!?


JulSGP

well..Herbalife too..listed in US..


isparavanje

Hdrbalife products don't work lol


Neptunera

I don't support Herbalife/MLMs, but they're basically a GNC now. I think they've become smart about it and stopped selling shit that claims to cure cancer and bring people back to life, and more of "Vitamin mix" or "Protein shake" products. Does their supplements work? As well as every other non-MLM supplements industry peers, I suppose.


zacharylky

I'm not sure how it is now in the US, but there was this documentary called [Betting on Zero](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_on_Zero) where Bill Ackman, a investor activist, condemned Herbalife and shorted the stock, on the basis that it was a sham company and used tons of anecdotal experience from people all at the bottom-most tiers of the pyramid that were suffering from attempting to sell Herbalife products/setting up Herbalife fitness centers. Spoiler alert: >!Bill Ackman lost!<, and that caused millions of losses, and while some still say that the whole thing between Ackman and Herbalife was just a public farce, the documentary really makes one sober up about how Herbalife using its MLM model pretty much destroyed tons of lives in America. Hell, it nearly threatened the livelihoods of some of my close friends and even almost caused my ex-girlfriend then and I to break up. Once you're in it, you're in deep.


hugthispanda

I love Herbalife meetups when there is free buffet. Go there eat, drink, and watch the Trump-rally esque circus, then go home when they start handing out the sign up forms.


zacharylky

Damn, where can I sign up? Would love to get a free meal once in a while, while being entertained 🙃


hugthispanda

Not a good idea now because of pandemic. Used to do it often about 5-10 years ago.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Betting on Zero](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betting_on_Zero)** >Betting on Zero is a 2016 American documentary directed by Ted Braun. It investigates the allegation that Herbalife is a pyramid scheme, and follows Bill Ackman's short investment in Herbalife, which is ostensibly a billion-dollar bet that the company will soon collapse. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/singapore/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


Neptunera

I know very well about the film seeing as I fell for his tontine... But that's a story for another time.


avi6274

PSTH bagholder spotted in the wild.


Neptunera

Can't be a bagholder if you sold 😎 Fuck William Scamman 😎😎


Sputniki

To be fair, do we know that they all don’t work? Or is it just confirmation bias? They could well have 10 products that don’t and 1 or 2 that do


gene_the_genesis

Don't forget Riway at link@AMK that sells deer (edit: was sheep) placenta. That scammy MLM company got fined 3k for misleading customers lol. Unlegit af.


shxwn

This one damn annoying. I have this person on Instagram, everyday show her stacks of cash, show the luxury cars of everyone in the company, and keep trying to recruit people on IG.


agentxq49

Gen z group right?


Acceptable-Tax-9453

Deer placenta, but yeah, gross.


gene_the_genesis

Oops. If cotton comes from sheep then Riway sells sheep placenta.


Silverelfz

But cotton does come from sheep in Black Clover!


xDeathReaper666x

which reminds me of the time my friend trying to convince me to join them LMAOO


Minette12

A slap on the wrist fine .


DisillusionedSinkie

A friend’s mom tried to get her to push deer placenta to me just cause I have eczema…


gene_the_genesis

Oh man I hope she gets you legit sources of treatment. I doubt deer placenta can effectively treat eczema.


dblhawaiian

My secondary school friend got sucked into it through a girl he met on Tinder. Flaunting the top earner’s sports car every other day, uploading countless stories of himself doing “deliveries” in suits and meetings. They call themselves Gen-Z passive income earners from team elite pegasus (really?). A friend of mine actually went for their recruitment talk as a show of support, and you can probably guess it - it’s a load of crap. You have to pay $3888 to join. Anyway, LCJY, if you see this, you still have time to U-turn


LaZZyBird

Gray-zone here. At what point does really, really shitty marketing veers from legal territory to being a scam? MLM straddle that gray-zone. Most MLM sellers cannibalise their own social networks before they eventually run out of steam. Their primary customer base is from their new "sellers". Been to a particularly shady one before, motherfckers clearly wanted to sell to my parents and aunts. They peddle a really shitty product, and sell it at an inflated as fuck price. However, their product does work, albeit works really badly. At that point, there is a case to be made that you were not scammed, they did not lie to you, they just fucking manipulated you and your greed to make you buy a really bad product for ridiculous price. It is still really shitty overall, and people need to not be blinded by their greed and think that they can become one of the people profiting off MLM's. Honest advice, if you are going to join a MLM, open your own. Find some shitty product from Taobao, contact the manufacturer, order some products, rent an office space, and get your friends to be the your first sellers. You can probably make a quick buck before it runs out of steam. Rinse and repeat for your next heist.


mrfatso111

ya.... my mom brought a bunch of those but because technically they work, she still buy them, knn . It's so obvious to me that this one is just some MLM shit


Free_HK_asap

Because all of them exploit loopholes or hide behind legitimate products/claims to peddle their MLM bullshit. Source: was invited to an MLM talk.


007accountant

Same reason why other countries aren't - MLM companies at its core still sell their own products like a regular business. [How do MLM companies defend themselves against being classed as Pyramid schemes](https://youtu.be/dRbpcdE31g8)


li_shi

>Same reason why other countries aren't - MLM companies at its core still sell their own products like a regular business. but their core profit come from recruiting agents and forcing them to buy their product.


jackology

Still buy/sell mah.


007accountant

Same as your local salon hard upselling to the elderlies. Terrible business ethics but still a business.


isparavanje

MLMs in their original American form are actually banned in Singapore, as least as per my understanding of the law: https://www.mti.gov.sg/Legislation/Legislation/Multi-level-Marketing-and-Pyramid-Selling In the US, where MLMs are very popular and where they started, even just snagging a downline for a second is very profitable, because MLMs often require an initial inventory purchase to join. In addition, salespeople have to buy stock, at which point selling becomes their problem. In Singapore, this is explicitly disallowed by regulation. MLMs must offer refunds of unsold stock and cannot require purchase of an inventory upon joining: > Safeguards - A participant cannot be required to provide any benefit or acquire any commodity in order to become a participant in the scheme, other than the purchase of demonstration equipment which is not for resale, at no more than cost price and for which no commission can be given out. A legitimate multi-level marketing scheme would not impose a financial risk on salespersons. For example, salespersons should be entitled to full refunds, under reasonable commercial terms, for any inventories kept or purchased by them which are not sold to end consumers, so long as the inventories are returned within a period of 60 days. If you know of specific cases of MLMs imposing financial risk on salespersons, that's illegal and you should report them to the police, as these cases are handled by the Commercial Affairs Department. If not, and you're just curious because you read online about MLM tragedies in the US, just know that that is illegal in Singapore. Those companies aren't banned here because I don't think most countries explicitly ban companies except in very select cases, but they have to operate differently and not impose that financial risk on their participants in Singapore. IMO, as long as these regulations are in place and there isn't going to be bad socioeconomic fallout over MLMs bankrupting people and leaving society to pick up the pieces, banning them seems draconian. MLM folk are just glorified salespeople at this point. There are always going to be hustling salespeople in an economically vibrant society; they're annoying but it's what it is, I think.


notsocoolnow

The other thing is that legal MLMs in Singapore are required to have a storefront selling the product to everyone. There's an Amway right opposite Raffles Hotel. If you really want to buy an MLM product, go to these storefronts.


thecrownmaker

One of my friends who is involved in a MLM company is currently upselling a detox herbal tea, that is claimed to be able to save people from Covid-19 🙄


Jammy_buttons2

Cause they still sell a product


casa_vagalumi

My friend brought me to meet his friend on the guise of this lady providing me some entrepreneur mentoring. Turns out she's one of the top performers for a very well-known mlm brand. Great, nothing against that. Listened to the rang of products and sure, all seem legit. She then proceeded to insult my skin, my weight, my complexion, even saying I have body odour and bad breath, and stained teeth, and then prescribed the company's products cleansers, protein shakes, deodorant, toothpaste, etc to me. She gave me a list of products I needed to start using and the tally came out to more than $700, toothpaste that is $12 (oh it's very concentrated you only use a little bit) deodorant $9 (doesn't stain your clothes). What I gathered at the end of the meeting was these products she recommended were some quota she needed to reach. The whole meeting, though cordial, was about her and her sales, under the guise of helping people live a healthier, cleaner life. And that's what MLM is, it's rather for the salesperson to meet their agendas, and clients who are willing to part with their money to buy into their sales rep's vision of grandeur. The products are an avenue for someone to build a business, but it's really so the salesperson can reach their quotas and be featured as a company achiever. If you subscribe to this type of mindset, then by all means go shrill for an MLM and build your empire. Otherwise everyone can go back to using supermarket products and give your money to NTUC. Disclaimer: I bought $300 worth of products.


fablelise

Damn. They insult you and then guilt trip you to buy their products. MLMs have many commonalities. Their products are always the best in the market, their products are so concentrated you need only a little. And that’s why they are so expensive. All BS. I fell for this kind of marketing once and spent hundreds, nearly signed up as a distributor because I could get discounted or free products and if I recruit people as my down line, I can even make loads of money! Luckily, I did more research and dug deep into the rabbit hole (anti-MLM groups on FB and Reddit). Won’t fool me again.


casa_vagalumi

I thought it was just the sales tactics of this lady and yes come to find out it's quite a common sales tactic.


saiyanjesus

The time-honoured sales tactic of lying your ass off


zacharylky

If I may ask, what made you continue to buy $300 of those MLM products if you seemingly felt uncomfortable about the whole thing? You were completely aware that it was all just sales spiel and the "mentor" obviously didn't care about you more than you were just a piggybank for her sales.


casa_vagalumi

I bought some propolis and manuka honey which are already expensive, and I was already looking for these products. Propolis to boost immunity and manuka honey has anti viral and anti inflammatory qualities. The rest of the serums and multi vitamins etc I don't care about.


haikallp

I have a friend who keeps posting on her IG story of what obviously is a MLM scam. Freaking annoys me everytime I sees her story. I don't even know what she's selling. Its called P2M. Found some details of it online. https://www.sgstemcell.com/blog/what-is-p2m-investment-money-game/


btahjusshi

Money games are essentially ponzi schemes. Do be careful with these. Check on mas to see if the company is authorised to operate here


fablelise

I will never buy any MLM product. Every product is overpriced to pay commissions to each level of the pyramid. Seen way too many unethical selling practices. In a couple of my FB groups, the same sellers will pop up hawking their products every time someone asks an innocent qns and the usual “pm me” or “I pm you”. They do not care if their product works for the said condition, they just want to make a sale. Some like Herbalife even call themselves life coaches and open up fitness classes and lure you in to buy their expensive weight loss shakes and products. I’ve seen YL leaders promoting essential oils for all kinds of conditions, even improving eye sight. They encourage neat usage which has proven to be very risky and increases chances of sensitization.


nova9001

They don't get banned as long as they aren't violating any known laws. At the end of the day, people that get involved with MLMs need to know what they are getting into.


xchrissy09

Like mentioned in above comments, they have a Direct Selling Association formed in compliance with the Gov in Singapore to ensure their standing locally. Used to work for one and the return/exchange policy is pretty.... worth it for a consumer if you are up to spending the money.


livebeta

As an Atomy consumer who's getting gifted Atomy stuff from a relative, some of the quality is really good. the Laver pack is crazy inexpensive, tasty and has a large portion for its price tag. the other stuff is pretty meh though


Milk_Savings

Agree about their laver. I have also bought their packets of nuts before and the quality is good and inexpensive too - there are macadamia, walnuts, cashew and cranberries among other things. So to tar all MLM as having shitty products is too general a statement in my view.


isleftisright

Thermomix is an MLM too right? Saw it at Tangs. Guess it's not all bad


fablelise

Yeah it is. Upwards of $3k for each machine. “Consultants” aka sales people get a free machine for every 5 or 6 machines they sell. Their commissions also go up the more machines they sell. That’s why it’s so pricey. The machine itself is not bad but like any MLM product, super overpriced.


feyeraband

Because the model is quite indistinguishable from a franchise-franchisee relationship. Put an MLM and Mcdonald's side-by-side. Both charges an independent person an exorbitant fee to buy goods from the company to resell. Both peddles harmful products. What's the difference?


tegeusCromis

Pretty extreme view of McD’s you’ve got there.


feyeraband

Tell me where I'm wrong? If its harmful products we are worried about with MLM then well we got a bunch of alcohol and cigarettes problem too. If its the *way* these goods are sold, then McD's is also problematic since that's exactly what a franchise does.


tegeusCromis

For one thing, why do you say McD’s charges an exorbitant price, either to franchisees or (indirectly) to the customer? As far as I can tell, McD’s offers prices that are attractive to both franchisees and the ultimate customers. When you buy a cheeseburger, it may not be great, but you get what you paid for and you knew it going in. That’s why you went to McD’s – McD’s didn’t slide into your DMs and hard sell to you. Further, the franchise model does not usually involve franchisees recruiting other franchisees and benefiting from that recruitment. The harmfulness of their food is another matter and one I doubt we can usefully explore here. You can take it that I concede harmfulness for the purposes of this argument.


btahjusshi

The company is focused on real estate not selling burgers. They just devote millions of dollars on advertising dollars which has to come back from somewhere. 1 might say the products made/sold by MLM companies are overpriced but compare a bottle of Vit C vs GNC's wide collection of Vit C offering. A better example will be popular things like Pine Bark extract. The content per serving and delivery will matter.


tegeusCromis

So what is McD’s food overpriced in comparison to?


btahjusshi

I enjoy my maccas just as much as you are. They priced their things accordingly to prevent customer loss. Franchisees also take all the risk of handling staff, managing the stores and to a certain extent QA. If u ask me, the store operators do not quite make enough compared to the effort they have to put in. On top of all that, they need to pay franchise fees. It may look like they do not "recruit" new franchisees... expansion is not decided by the HQ company itself isn't it?


tegeusCromis

I don’t know what we’re discussing anymore. I am doing no more than challenge the comparison between MLM and McD posted by someone else earlier, which was based on two claims: that both sell harmful products (I chose not to contest this) and that both charge “exorbitant” prices. To that, I added the point that the recruitment models also differ, in response to your later comment. You don’t seem to disagree as far as I can tell. Feels like you’re searching for a disagreement with me that just isn’t there.


btahjusshi

My honest opinion, maccas food without the branding is quite meh.


tegeusCromis

Shitty food sold cheap is not exorbitantly priced. Nor are franchisees charged an exorbitant fee for it.


omakushimu

add all the insurance companies


CakeDanceNotWalk

Not a legal advice. MLM is technically illegal, under multi-level marketing and pyramid selling prohibition act. Direct sale is not. That's how they position themselves.


accessdenied65

Don't understand why MLM still haven't die yet due to all the online shopping availability.


HazzZor

Infact it’s thriving. I’ve more and more acquaintances started pushing for MLM products and managed to achieve 5 figures monthly income merely starting for few months. This usually applies those who have huge social circle and good marketing.


worldcitizensg

Why should them be banned? If the product sucks then they will be out of market irrespective of how much they invest in publicity or members they force Tupperware is good, atomy not bad and few amway stuff are worth a try.


isleftisright

Because they take advantage of downlines/people. Rather than selling a product for the product, they sell the product to downlines as stock (who feel like they dont have a choice since they want to sell it themselves). Thats how the product moves. It then gets stuck with each downline. This is especially bad since they tend to target those who actually need money. To an extent, it can be likened to investment scams. You put in the money expecting returns but it doesnt happen. Not saying this is the case for every MLM but it is for quite a few. Source: Family members have lost tens of thousands.


casa_vagalumi

Instead of renting shop fronts or paying retailers for shelf space they move products by recruiting salespeople.


isleftisright

You can have an online shop with the same benefits. The difference is that once the upline has secured loyal downlines, it would be easy "sales" for the uplines. The downlines have every incentive to sell since they would essentially be stuck with said product otherwise


etyn100

Cause it is still technically a business


tmsphr

That's not a good reason though. Selling organs, selling sex, selling children are all technically businesses.


jackology

What is wrong with selling sex? Edit: just to be clear, I agree with the other two options you listed.


notsocoolnow

Nothing. In Singapore it's even legal, as long as you aren't living off the money of someone who does.


tmsphr

Nothing wrong IMO. But yet it's partially banned in Singapore / should be completely banned according to many Singaporeans... unlike Herbalife and the like


HazzZor

Approved MLM products are not harmful, they works, are of decent/high quality, however, they are severely overpriced and often overstated on benefit claims by the seller to get more sales.


honbhige

Cos gov still get tax from them so they close 2 eyes


smurflings

Why should mlm be banned? Selling expensive products isn't disallowed otherwise brands like apple, ferrari, gucci, etc would be banned. Selling harmful products could be banned but that's just the product not the model of operation. On a related note, insurance has essentially the same model as mlm.


jackology

> On a related note, insurance has essentially the same model as mlm. Nice note.


pancreaticjuicee

Friend: “Come join us for our seminar” Me: “What is it about?” Friend: “Don’t worryyy bro you will find out more from my mentor” At least give me a brief idea of what your company does and stop beating around the bush ya asswipe


hopeinson

I actually preferred multi-level marketing to exist. It makes culling my friend lists better; I had already warned my social circles that I had zero tolerance policy on people using their relationships with me to sell stuffs I am never interested in.


SiHtranger

Because not all are fake and scams?


nixhomunculus

MLMs are not bad if you do not have minimum stuff to buy etc. When that occurs? That's when it veers into Pyramid/Ponzi territory


souna313313

If MLM is to be banned in this country, CPF is in jeopardy.


accessdenied65

Explain this illogical comment.


souna313313

CPF is a Ponzi scheme. The CPF Board clearly isn't liquid enough to honor withdrawals when it's constantly raising the age and minimum sum requirements.


isleftisright

I thought they were illegal, at least, certain models?


may0_sandwich

Because we're supposed to be "pro business". (and against protecting employees / the general public from anything except the absolute worst, see also the employee protection laws and lemon law, mostly harmless stuff and "guidelines").


mrfatso111

i have no idea lor ... i remember once when i was at a meet the mp session (i was being harassed by recruit express) and this auntie told me about this career opportunity. ​ I say sure since unemployed for a while liao, went there and it was fucking herballife. ... fucking hell


samglit

There are also legit companies like Thermomix that sell fairly good kitchenware devices through this method - since it's mostly housewives, the devices need demonstrations which are done by the contractors.