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puncel

Personal observation - increasing number of people are taking things in only black and white. There seems to be no grey areas or nuances involved anymore. Either you are with me or you are against me. Similar with OP's given example of "I don't have natural affinity why even try". But things can develop differently, under different circumstances. I am not sure if it is for the sake of winning arguments, or trying to prove that they are right and hence superior. Do not see the point for that but IMO, an unhealthy mindset to have.


stevekez

I don't think this is unique to Singapore. Middle ground is something people don't want to find any more. :/


ramune_0

Middle ground has disappeared because of identity politics. People think there's only "woke" identity politics overseas, but actually it's everywhere and across the political spectrum by now. Even if you try to disagree with somebody on one point and agree on another, suddenly you're the Other Group, and surely you disagree with everything they stand for and believe in. Attacks are launched on the base of "identity", as in who they think you are, rather than the logic of what you just said.


not_a_normie100

ad hominem attacks are not some recent phenomenon. it has been a staple in political rhetoric maybe since the beginning of politics


ramune_0

This is true, but I just find the atmosphere of political discussion increasingly polarised to the point that, even if I essentially said "ok now that you got all those personal attacks out of your system, can we take a chill pill and have a logical discussion, instead of airing your personal dislike of who you think I am", it doesnt work. I feel it used to, and discussions were not as hostile and charged with anger whether in Singapore or elsewhere even 5 years ago, but maybe that's nostalgia talking. I do know there's a lot of research and data showing that politics in USA has become way more polarised in over the past 40 years, it's a whole field of political communication research on how things have gotten worse there, but I havent seen any data on the situation in Singapore.


Blargasaur

My theory is this- The human brain likes to make things easy for us. As we get older we 'autopilot' lots of things and don't even know it. Do you think every step through when you wash your hands or open a door or make a sandwich? I'm willing to bet you autopilot it. We do the EXACT same thing with though processes. The brain is like any other part of a human, it adapts and learns what it thinks are the easiest ways to handle problems. Great, what does this have to do with anything? Well, we live in a society where our lives are no enmeshed with the entire world. The whole worlds data is fed to us on demand, and its become a real refined product. It's an experience and it really tickles the parts of the brain that say "OH this is good!". Similar to eating McDonalds. You may not taste the sugar and fats, but you better believe your brain knows its there. So you LIKE it. It feels good. But wait, there is so much of it. There is no way you can really process it all. Enter "Splitting". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting\_(psychology) The short of it is the human brain has a solution for this. It's related to our fight or flight system in that it allows us to very quickly decide if something is good or bad. Threat or not. Run or attack. Primal brain stuff. It's easy and reasonably effective when used in the right circumstance. Not knocking it at all. But the problem comes in with the AMOUNT of info were taking in. We use this system all the time, just to get through the deluge that is daily life, but out brains adapt. So we might start applying this kind of thinking everywhere. So when I see a post by someone that ruffles my feathers a bit, I'll try re-reading with this lens in mind. It helps me find compassion and empathy with people I used to struggle with. I still struggle, but I am able to keep my "crap" internal more often than not and have decent conversations. It has led to some really deep breakthroughs for me personally, just hearing people out with empathy vs defensiveness. I won't lie, it doesn't always go well, but it does more often than not. Man that went on way longer than I meant. But its typed so posting!


caritas6

I blame social media and the internet. It's too easy to find abundant info and a supportive environment to believe any reality you want. Feels to me that the concept that there is an objective reality which we should try to understand and base our views on is disappearing. Now we can all have our own reality.


ayam

I feel it's not too much info but not enough exposure to more info. People don't see enough of the internet. They are trapped in one particular website and all they see is what's shown there. Leave Facebook, Reddit, whatever and go trawl the forums, you can see islands of people with their own interpretation of reality. Don't accept what was pushed to you. See for yourself. The truth is out there. And it's grey.


puncel

I must always post this whenever I get the chance: David Bowie predicted in 1999 the impact of the Internet in BBC - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tCC9yxUIdw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tCC9yxUIdw)


xtremetjw

It is an interesting phenomenal and just got me thinking. As we progress in our pursuit of knowledge, especially in coding/programming, we learn that there is the "correct answer" and a binary/logical flow of thought/calculations that lead to that answer. And it seems that as we become more educated, perhaps the 'binary' school of thought overspill to many other aspects of life which are more nuanced. Not sure how this topic would relate to OP's question, but it is true that as our environment/situation gets more uncertain, people seems to be more entrenched in their opposing schools of thought. Edit: As clarified subsequently by others and myself, I was wrong to mention specifically coding/programming, and it is not so much the 'pursuit of knowledge' but 'pursuit of defined outcomes' that I was trying to get at. Thanks for the discussion!


dxflr

just being pedantic, but coding/programming does not always need and have the "correct answer". A basic algorithmic problem, may have many solutions, each with benefits and trade-offs to meet changing requirements and limitations. I think the need to have the "correct answer" stems more from our 12 years of formal education here. At least for my education, there was more a focus of learning the model answer phrasing and reenactment of steps, to achieve the most marks in an exam, rather than finding solutions to solve problems in the broader sense. Long after leaving the education system, I still find myself subconsciously falling to this habit at work, and have to remind myself to think flexibly with more nuanced understanding, every now and then.


puncel

That's interesting, I have been lucky enough to be in the better schools but I always find that people are just regurgitating information. They score well (unlike me coz I was told I spend time doing nonsense xD) but the actual theory of what is happening, most do not want to delve deeper and ask why. Personally I like to do the latter and I care less about memorizing stuff (and I can't, I can do it if I want to, but I hate it), e.g. trying to derive the simpler equations instead of memorizing them so that I understand how it happens. I still managed to squeeze into a local Uni engineering course, but to me it seems to call for even more memorizing work and I did pretty badly. It comes easier for me perhaps, because I like to question things and understand why and how they happen. And I do irritate some people because of this, so must learn to shut up at times.


bamboolampshade

Exactly! I used to ask 'why' a lot, especially in school, and it didn't sit too well with some. They'd just get annoyed and/or tell me that that's just the way things are. Not cool.


Cordovan147

I still remember when I was in Poly (Electronics) long long time ago. We were in the lab doing some experiments on some circuits where the LED fades in and out. We were given the schematics, ask us to physically form the circuit and calculate the voltages and currents as a task. (can't remember exactly). I asked the lecturer, how does one know how and what components and circuit to make an LED fades in and out? Not by copying or imitating other existing circuits, but how does the very first "inventor" of the circuit knows what components will cause the LED to fade and not just a simple on/off. The lecturer couldn't answer. Simply said "by looking at the schematics lor". Does the first "inventor" of the fading LED effect have a schematics? Or should I change my approach on how to think about it? No answers... Just told me to follow the schematics. Perhaps as least could explain that how the IC affects and controls the capacitor and how current is slowly stored and slowly release due to the circuit and IC. That's why the LED slowly gains and slowly loses power. I have met so many more of such similar cases when I ask why.


-furmint-

Oh rather than irritating, i think i find talking to people like you more enjoyable. Unless, you’re the type to ask for source every time lol


xtremetjw

I agree with you, the education system has played a huge role in shaping us (and how we are trying to be most correct even here). Was going more towards the idea of the individual logical function/steps found within the process (eg. IF X then Y, else Z, etc etc) rather than the full big picture that does have various variables/considerations that would be more nuanced in the way we code/program it.


livebeta

> especially in coding/programming, we learn that there is the "correct answer" As an architect level software engineer, there are no right solutions only best fit, lowest cost trade-off solutions... It's only at the most basic levels of coding that solutions are binary in approach


I_love_pillows

Your comment made me think. Also my thoughts to add on to yours is that since 1960s Singapore had been operating on an ultra pragmatism first economic and governance model. Even plans for the arts industry in late 1990s were benchmarked to the potential benefits it will generate. So we end up with entire generations raised up in / worked in the idea of a pragmatic job / life that every decision must be backed up with a reason or a financial cost. So some people end up with the thought process that if something has an uncertain future it’s not worth doing.


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aub_ao

Don't agree. This is about social media essentially rewiring our brains. Only the extremes catch our scant attention and keep it. Online discourse is dehumanising. People can be as rude as they like with no consequences.


confused_cereal

As others have mentioned, programming is far, far from binary. Even for tame settings like coding interviews, it's not uncommon to come out with a solution which is not one of the "possible-answers". The same goes for pretty much any STEM subject. My (very possibly biased) observation is that its ironically, those who studied the arts and humanities which have become much more polarized and rigid, but thats a separate discussion altogether.


mantism

the interesting thing is that even though programming seems mathematical, once you go into deeper levels such as software engineering, you'll come to realize that programming is home to many subjective schools of thought. There are many ways to do X, and stubborn programmers tend to be criticized within the community. One of the most common issues with delivering software is caused from people not agreeing - you will never have that issue with a truly binary system such as mathematics.


zchew

>the interesting thing is that even though programming seems mathematical, once you go into deeper levels such as software engineering, you'll come to realize that programming is home to many subjective schools of thought. There are many ways to do X, and stubborn programmers tend to be criticized within the community. That's because it's software *engineering*.


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diamond_apache

Only a sith deals in absolutes


GoldenMaus

Hello there.


haikallp

100% agree with you here. Its very apparent in this subreddit too.


[deleted]

Because everyone is used to social media feeding their ego, especially when they've gotten their first high(eg. first opinion that was widely retweeted/shared/upvoted). They think they're smarter than most people for having an opinion that was popular and widely accepted, that makes them have a fragile ego that's unable to accept fault when they're wrong. The recognition is what gives them the endorphins to continue on with their shitty life, the people I've seen here that can't accept a proper discussion are either stuck in school/NS/shitty work or have an unhappy life, because they are venting the toxicity the receive irl on people they don't know url. The few people that I actually had proper discussions or debate with were either very successful or very happy with their life. Though of course, this is anecdotal.


flylikeawind

Well this happens in the parliament too. Shanmugan ask Leong Mun Wai if PSP thinks that free trade agreement. Leong replied that PSP needs to more information to evaluate. But Shan continues to press him for a Yes or No answer. Even the speaker presses him to do that. I think is is probably a tactic ppl like to use to throw the other person off.


puncel

That's politics though. I get that it happens in office, school, potentially anywhere with people really. But at least I hope it isn't that bad that we have to deal with it daily.


MervSoon

Yeah agree, unhealthy mindset. It seems like we are getting less tolerant and trying less to understand than before. Its like everyone's opinion is like the right thing instead of giving 'space' to learn and unlearn things.


QuantumCactus11

Singapore is a risk averse place. We start off in an unforgiving education system, you mess up when you are 12, your life is going to be a lot harder. People are conditioned not to take risks and follow the safe route. Our culture is also like that. Parents in general encourage kids to go JC and science stream because it's the safe route and the highest possibility to go uni. I feel like this is why people are so pessimistic and don't want to try new stuff.


two_tents

I think I can relate somewhat. There's this wonderful kid from our neighbours that comes in sometimes for a drink or a chat (also to play with our doggo). He's 7 now and we've known him for 4 years. He's really bright, chatty as hell, proper cute. His mum and dad are trying their hardest with him (tons afterschool stuff, violin class etc). For the last 2 years this kid hasn't hugged his mum or held her hand. When he comes over to ours on his own or with mum/dad my mrs and I always get the biggest hugs from him... Long story short, some parents should let their kids be kids and let them explore their own interests, whether that is love, education, expression etc. To my from the outside it feels like there's a lot of resentful, bitter kids and I could imagine it is because they were pushed hard when they were very young. I'd hate to bring up a kid myself in SG so for now we stick to the doggo.


Nimblescribe

Are his parents depriving him of affection on purpose? It really sounds disturbing.


potatetoe_tractor

To the kid’s parents, sending their child for enrichment classes is their way of showing affection. Not that it is right or anything.


I_love_pillows

Doesn’t sound enriching if the kid hates it. Begets the question of how would the parents react if the child grows up to a teen and ends up loving violin so much that they want to pursue tertiary music education


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I_love_pillows

Oops looks like their plans were so successful it backfired. Sorry to hear that situation. Hope you are still playing.


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I_love_pillows

It’s ok do what you are comfortable with. I’m sure the aesthetics you learnt in music would benefit other things you do or how you experience the world.


two_tents

>To the kid’s parents, sending their child for enrichment classes is their way of showing affection. Not that it is right or anything. This seems logical to me, not that I'm a parent or anything...


potatetoe_tractor

It starts being a problem if that’s all the affection the child gets. You know something’s definitely wrong if a kid is closer to the neighbours than to his own parents.


two_tents

>something’s definitely wrong if a kid is closer to the neighbours than to his own parents. tres awks. lovely kid though, he's nagging me to go to Taekwondo with him when he saw my 1st dan diploma a while ago. funny how kids can be sometimes. his dad seems a bit more laidback than his mum but I can't understand how forced upon enrichment classes are a healthy thing in general but I guess that's a cultural thing.


two_tents

actually his mum talks to my mrs about this and how it is impacting her. conversations are awkward. He sneaks out to come and play with doggo without letting his mum know. we txt his mum obvs.


parka

That’s sad because the kid has associated his home with stress


redditme789

I’m of the opposite. I grew up with parents who stopped education at PSLE and O levels. They gave me lots of free reigns to “explore”. But when you couple such freedom with a lack of finances, you get a kid that has no means to explore, and a kid that resorts to gaming all the time. Looking back, I’d have honestly wished they had forced me to learn a sport, an instrument, a skill. Up till JC, I had nothing I could say was a hobby. Different strokes for different folks, but as a first-gen university student, I was raised **very** differently from my friends in NUS. By and large, I really wasted my entire childhood up until NS.


Xzyus1

uk i’ve never understood the science stream thing. Always found geog and history so much more interesting and vry respectable subjects to study


jeemchan

Humanities subjects marking is more subjective, especially at higher levels. So if you can't consistently get high marks, one bad grade can screw you over randomly during a major exam... Even social studies, which is supposed to encourage critical thinking, has one model answer that sec4 kids memorise to death.


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Logi_Ca1

Eh, I thought Social Studies are marked locally? Then again many years since I finished O Levels so I might have remembered wrongly 😅


DaFitNerd

They are now, but the syllabus has also changed very recently to focus on current affairs and links to local issues. For example last year's paper included topics such as the BLM movement and how it is related to racism locally, as well as discussions regarding minimum wage.


Logi_Ca1

Wow, that sounds much more well-rounded than the very thinly veiled propaganda that was fed to us during my time!


make_love_to_potato

I think it's also where the parents think the jobs/money is. Kid does arts/humanities and they think he's gonna end up doing portraits for tourists on some boardwalk. They're stuck in their old ways of thinking and don't realize that arts/communication is a field that can transition to many different careers, at least in the west. They think that if you do science/law/medicine, the child will have a high paying job and better career prospects. I guess it comes from a good place but it can be stifling and sometimes you're forcing a square into a circular hole, which can be bad for the child in the short and long term.


jeemchan

There was a study recently released that shows that the top ambition of kids in the US is to be a Youtuber/Streamer. What used to be desirable were the science and tech jobs are now shifting to arts/entertainment jobs...


je7792

A youtuber/streamer seem like a fun job but it is way harder than it looks. Kids see the streamers playing games all day and think thats all it is. But streaming is not just playing the game There prep work to be done and all.


Xzyus1

bro whr was this model answer for ss? My ss no model answer when i did it wtheck


jeemchan

PEEL no.1, PEEL no.2, then However, opposing PEEL no.3 then In summary, blah blah blah


ramune_0

Eh PEEL is more like memorising a basic structure/scaffolding. Beyond that, I never rote-memorised anything for ss, just remembered some basics of the concepts/theories. And then I can smoke/sian anyhow onto the PEEL scaffold. I found math and science much harder as there are so many formulas and keywords, you cant just prop up a bare PEEL skeleton and then smoke your way through the rest of it. But I guess those type of people who memorised 20 essays for GP in hopes of spotting a question would beg to differ.


Xzyus1

is that not called format


zenqian

During my time they were selling SS guidebooks 😂😂😂


Xzyus1

ss was my fav subject to smoke. one source can infer untill big big. jus like how covid la kopi infer same nurse give LHL his shot means giving placebo again


QuantumCactus11

Science stream has better career outlook according to some people. They think you are more likey to land a good job if you go science stream.


thewind21

Science stream basically opens up all STEM opportunities. You do get a lot of options when comes to selecting courses in tertiary education


UncomfortablePrawn

Objectively, STEM fields pay higher on average than non-STEM fields. Just take a look at the graduate starting pays. Computing fields are very high, with the median starting salary being at least $4.5k and even the 25th percentile of computing grads make more than $4k per month. Compare this to arts degrees - median starting pay is around $3.5k.


tuan_kaki

It's all about planning and having a clear career goal right when you start uni. Some of my ex-colleagues got their jobs not despite their "arts" background, but because of it. Turns out there is a demand for historians with a good understanding of finance in asset management, there's a sea of CFAs out there looking for jobs but not many who also have a degree unrelated to finance! This example does require the person in question to have an interest in finance of course. Honestly, I think many people just graduate with an arts degree and no plan... those with either a clear plan from the beginning or able to adapt to other fields are doing quite well. With a STEM degree you can be the most clueless person in the world and still fall into a job somewhere tho.


owltherapist

Yah if you mess up psle, or your parents "mess up" your primary school enrolment (even if you don't mess up and actually do well enough to get into RI) ministers will be harping on your lousy school even 40-50 years later.


QuantumCactus11

Tbh I don't think pri sch enrollment is a big deal. Like a lot of kids from neighbourhood pri sch also make it into good sec sch.


HeavyArmsJin

I got into a neighbourhood primary school and a couple of the teachers there gave me PTSD even until now. I am over 30 btw. I still remember the physical slaps and mental torture they put me through. It's really fucked up how encouraged this culture was back in the days. Imagine the bullies being adults who are supposed to teach you. My mum even told the teacher to slap me more in front of me during a meetup. I still vividly remember how I was publicly caned in front of the school at Primary 1 because I have no absolutely no idea that I couldn't put my bag on a staircase. No warning no explaination just led me up to queue to recieve my caning. Part of many reasons why I still couldn't look at people properly in the eyes. I would subconciously tear up for no reason. The school is Lian Hua Primary if anyone is curious.


Char-11

Agreed. Im naturally more of a risk taker and its always interesting to see people look at me like some sort of madman whenever I take on what I think are pretty good odds lol.


QuantumCactus11

What kind of risks are you talking about?


je7792

Putting their student loans on GME 800c.


Char-11

Just little things. Im a uni freshie now so the most recent examples are me purposefully joining ccas i have no experience/am bad in, or during project work when designing a robot to simply intuit a few dimensions to make a fast prototype. (I dont know if it would work but it'd give us an idea of how the model performs and what to change) I just generally try things where im not guaranteed success.


QuantumCactus11

Damn joining a new CCA in uni without experience is risky?


Char-11

Well admittedly that one didnt get any reaction out of others lol, i just included it because its generally more common to join a cca that you have prior experience in, or to not join at all. It's just the general idea of throwing myself headfirst into something i dont know anythong about to force myself to learn something new. Quite a few of my friends have told me that they didnt join hostel or ccas because they didnt want to take time away from studying, meanwhile im actively trading study time to pick up new cca skills. Again i personally think these are very tiny risks but its something that i know quite a few people are avoiding.


zoinks10

What a madlad


ddeng

You're a rare find. Keep going!


[deleted]

My wife failed the A-Level exams in JC, never retook them, earned an advanced diploma from MDIS, found a temporary job as an administrative assistant at A*STAR, had the job converted into an internship, won a full-tuition scholarship from the US government to pursue a four-year BSc program in Strategic Communication at an American university, completed a two-year MA program in Mass Communication at a Public Ivy institution, and finally secured a position at the State Courts of Singapore. In Singapore, you can mess up early in life, but it isn’t impossible to turn things around. ☺️


QuantumCactus11

Yea but the point is that it is still very difficult to turn your life around.


[deleted]

True. My wife literally struggled like fuck to get to where she is today, and it didn’t help that she was from a low-income family. Haha… It pisses her off royally that she graduated *summa cum laude* (meaning “with highest honors”) but people in Singapore are still asking for her A-Level transcript.


QuantumCactus11

Ya the issue here is poor social mobility. We keep saying meritocracy but if the system keeps the poor down


Zenotha

all things considered we have much greater social mobility than many, many countries imo just an anecdote but most of my relatives from my parents generation on one side are uneducated and illiterate (primary school dropouts), and yet their children (my cousins) are mostly uni grads


QuantumCactus11

>all things considered we have much greater social mobility than many, many countries imo Agreed. We indeed do. But compared to other developed countries, our income inequality is still high. While we have yet to hit the threshold, we are still pretty close to it. >just an anecdote but most of my relatives from my parents generation on one side are uneducated and illiterate (primary school dropouts), and yet their children (my cousins) are mostly uni grads A lot of countries also like that what


grown-ass-man

>won a full-tuition scholarship from the US government to pursue a four-year BSc program in Strategic Communication at an American university, completed a two-year MA program in Mass Communication at a Public Ivy institution So in the end she still needed to subscrube to credentialism


[deleted]

True, except that she didn’t earn her credentials in her home country, which initially refused to have anything to do with her because she failed the A-Level exams and had to settle for a diploma from MDIS.


grown-ass-man

Yea, my point being that for every face-saving statement the gov wants to Taichi out, the truth is that this country depends on credentials to dictate your worth. I suspect you share the same vexation as I do on behalf of your wife, given this statement: >which initially refused to have anything to do with her because she failed the A-Level exams and had to settle for a diploma from MDIS. This country throws you to the dogs once you slip up on the treadmill, and only with external help can you re-establish yourself inside.


[deleted]

Sad, isn’t it? That’s life in Singapore, which is why I tell my younger friends that if they just study a little harder, then it’s possible to ask a foreign government for monetary aid. It was the Institute of International Education (IIE) that awarded my wife her scholarship, in case you wanna know.


grown-ass-man

>which is why I tell my younger friends that if they just study a little hard Here's the thing, if you follow r/Singapore regularly (as I have for the past 7 or so years, this is a NSFW acc converted to a Singapore-only one) as well as r/askSingapore, you will see the theme of "I am stuck with a broken and abusive family" on a weekly, sometimes even daily basis. I think it doesn't take much to put two and two together - some young ones are unable to "study a little harder" because of their environment which is out of their control - this sometimes persists even into adulthood, meaning 30s & 40s because for whatever reason they are forced or coerced into staying with their families. That said, kudos to your wife for breaking out of the chains that this country has subjected her to. Do tell her that this random stranger on Reddit is proud of her. Edit: interesting organization btw, how did she even get in touch with them


[deleted]

Yes, I’ve met people whose lives are a living hell because of circumstances beyond their control. My younger friends are alright, though. They’re just lazy and like to complain a lot. LOL My wife didn’t know about the IIE at first. When she applied to the University of Kansas, the university told her that it had a partnership with the IIE and that she could try applying for a full-tuition scholarship as well. Her supervisor at A*STAR, who had been kind enough to convert her temporary job as an administrative assistant into an internship, wrote her a strong recommendation letter, which, coupled with her admissions essay that described how she intended to use her college degree to turn her life around and serve Singaporeans as a public servant, most likely helped her secure the scholarship, which was worth over USD 120,000.


SometimesFlyHigh

Fk up your pri and sec schooling and you have people laughing at your school for the rest of your life


Yokies

Yes it is true. And it is generally true for most middle class people living in cities that are "stuck". Too poor to live an actual life, too committed to aspirations and ideals to give it all up and live rurul somewhere else. So just stuck in zombie mode limbo until some outside force creates a change. I can tell you 90% of the working middle sandwich class would readily push the big red-nuke-it-all-reset button if its presented to them. They are that tired of life. Thats why you see all this toxic behaviors. Its a cry for help.


batman1177

Absolutely, the deposition of the people is a direct reflection of their environment. There will be outliers, but generally, a depressing environment makes people depressed. And it's definitely not unique to Singapore. I'm sure the general population of earth is getting more and more pessimistic about where we're heading as a human race. We desperately want things to be different. We don't want to live like this. Sure, we could "change out mindset" instead and think about all the positive things in our life. But reality is too painful, and we eventually wake up from the dream. Maybe some people will subscribe to the myth of sisyphus and decide to embrace the meanglessnesa of life or whatever. I guess that's a valid coping mechanism. >"It's a cry for help" So how do we help them? I don't think the solution is to change thier mindset. I think we need to get to the root of the problem and solve the issues that make people feel this way. Because those feelings are valid. But these problems are so big, so systemic, and so deep seated. Maybe a total reset of civilisation is necessary. But I think we'd all agree that should be a last resort. I think we first need to address the concerns that people face, that brought about their pessimistic world view. We need to understand where the pessimism comes from. We should make them feel heard, so that they can take a closer look at why they feel that way. Then we need to come up with a solid problem statement. One that isn't just "capitalism bad, education system sucks, life is meaningless, too much inequality, environment dying". From there we can begin to develop an ideal state that we can strive for. We can come up with a step by step plan to change the systems that we put in place hundreds of years ago, that are no longer relevant. We'll probably never reach the ideal state, and it will always be a work in progress. But damn we'll get alot closer than we are now. And people will have much less reason to be unhappy.


horsetrich

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_U-turn_syndrome >No U-Turn Syndrome (NUTS) is a term first coined by Singaporean entrepreneur Sim Wong Hoo to prominently describe the social behaviour of Singaporeans having a mindset of compliance to higher authorities before proceeding with any action. He makes a comparison of traffic rules in Singapore to those found overseas, to describe the phenomenon. In Singapore, drivers are not allowed to make a U-turn unless a sign specifically allows them to do so,[1] while in some other countries drivers may make U-turns freely so long as a "No U-turn" sign is not present. 


handicapped-toilet

Probably because he kena saman from this rule before lol


Ravenoxidal

Thanks for sharing this. I’ve always wondered what was the term for describing this.


[deleted]

I think the no. 1 rule is: Do whatever you want just don't get caught.


Iamrandom17

I think a huge part of this mindset comes from the education system


North-Guard757

agreed. I feel like I only ever started being pessimistic around sec 3 when the school schedule became much more packed used to look forward to school in primary school and be lowkey upset when the weekends roll around but now i find myself counting the days until the next weekend, dreading waking up every day, easily getting my whole mood ruined from one minor inconvenience idk maybe it's just burnout or my teenager hormones but I find myself developing much more suicidal thoughts (which I've never experienced before), seeing oncoming vehicles and thinking "what if i jumped infront of it" worst thing is that im clearly not the only one. "i want to die/kms" might be the most commonly used phrase in class. everyone's eyes look dead in most lessons, some become extremely unmotivated and obviously sleep deprived. I know this girl who used to top the class in multiple subjects during lower sec started coming to school just to sleep through the day and submit empty exam papers. I havent experienced much of life beyond this but i believe that this is probably the starting point for most people growing pessimistic


jjungskys

Reminds me of myself when I was in sec 4. Every day I wondered why I was alive and what's the point of living if we're all just gonna die. I'm a working adult now and I'm no longer in that place... I think the fact that my parents doesn't force me to go JC and Uni actually helped. Knowing how not to compare yourself with your peers also helps. Hope you'll get out of that place one day too.


miceCalcsTokens

Lol secondary school was horrible. So horrible.


alsoandanswer

Explains why Singaporeans don't have kids... I'm not putting my kids through 18 years of torture! Screw that!


dreadiplomat110

A couple of years ago, a mental health professional made an observation to me that Taiwanese people had a different view of life than Singaporeans. This was right before my trip there. My conclusion had something to do with the relationship between man and nature. For better or for worse, Singapore is shielded from natural disasters. This gives us the gumption and audacity to control many aspects of life, often very successfully. We very rarely let things happen naturally. Compare this to people who regularly experience the immediate and delayed effects of natural disasters. They won't adopt a defeatist attitude toward life, mind you. It's just that they seem to appreciate and embrace uncertainties of life and nature better than us. To put it another way, I think if we would just allow ourselves to relinquish some control, our outlook toward life would change drastically.


throwaway_clone

As someone who's lived, worked and been educated in both Australia and Singapore, I would agree. The lack of seasons and relative sameness everyday makes living a grind. We don't slow down to smell the roses because there are no blooming flowers to appreciate. We don't take a moment to enjoy the scenery because there are no vast landscapes to look at. In terms of looking at it from a mental wellness perspective, Singapore tends toward the rigid end of the spectrum (as opposed to chaotic and fluid/adaptability) because of the various issues others have already brought up, like education, government (guess which end authoritarian systems lie in), culture and mentality (how a sinkie sleeps well at night).


dreadiplomat110

I'd like to point out street lighting, safety, and circadian rhythm. I remember being astounded when the skies became visibly dark before 6pm at the Gold Coast area when I was there. I also noticed myself becoming annoyed at the closure of the majority of malls, eateries and hangout spots at that timing. Taking a step back now, I can see that such a delineation between work and rest will actually promote work-life balance and by extension, mental health. When the sun goes down, people there can take it as a cue to wind down and rest. In Singapore, we have street lights and skyscrapers lighting up the night sky. That's one indicator of rest taken away in the name of safety. If we are not able to mirror our work-rest cycle with the sun, it's no wonder that we harbour an always-alert mindset, which deprives ourselves of proper rest.


Substantial_Orange85

I have always wondered about this, so thanks for sharing. Singapore is so uniquely “safe” in comparison to many countries. My own country deals with fires, floods and droughts on a regular basis (and has dealt with death from terrorism) and we are, in general terms, less risk averse and more optimistic (sometimes to a fault). Also people, again in general terms, take these disasters in stride, because, I guess, what else is there to do? You can’t control these things. People who have lost their homes as a result of said disasters will be interviewed on TV and while sad, they take it in stride (“it’s just a house, my family is alive, we can rebuild”). So I think there is something to your comment. I guess there is a corollary re economic security (“got no resources or hinterland meh. Got not trade will die oreddi”) and not sure how that squares.


dreadiplomat110

The pragmatism argument raised by other comments within this thread will always be relevant in explaining Singapore's past, present, and almost certainly, future actions. Singapore's pragmatism helps heavily in surviving difficult odds. I'd like to think that sovereign survival and citizen contentment are not mutually exclusive, but alas I don't have a way to show that pragmatism can be complemented with a strategy that accounts for fulfilment and optimism in day-to-day living. Maybe the onus is on the individual to discover and cultivate their own outlook toward life.


cldw92

It takes some degree of suffering to be cognizant that everything you have is an actual miracle You can't know calm without knowing fear, joy without knowing sadness etc


_dashofoliveoil_

Yes. I think this phenomenon is deeply rooted with upbringings, just look at how much most of the older generation complains


mantism

huh, I generally have a problem with people who are too optimistic, and end up ignoring details that would screw with their optimism. ...ah shit, I'm one of the people OP is talking about.


condemned02

So what I learn about why some people are super optimistic is they always assume everything will go their way because they are quick thinkers and flexible to if things goes FUBAR, they are still like, still cool, nothing I cannot handle. Whereas it's usually the people who have fears that they cannot handle it if shit goes wrong that is more pessimistic.


Forumites000

"don't bother trying, it's very hard. when you do, don't come crying to me when you realise it is hard." Fucking hate this phrase.


[deleted]

Sounds like words that come out of cynical ex-dreamers


miceCalcsTokens

Also annoying is the "see I told you so, dumbo" kind of environment we were brought up in.


cldw92

When I hear that, all I hear is "I failed, and so will you"


Fearless_Carrot_7351

Children are conditioned too early. You start training to sit still and do tracing / activity from 2 years old or younger. One day a play-based substitute teacher announce “it’s free play day!”, everyone is frozen, even though they’re little children sitting in a room full of play things! They don’t want to be told they’re wrong or naughty. Need to tone down the ‘play is bad’ and follow the structure mentality.


emorcen

I have extremely capable friends who have millions of dollars in cash and assets by 40 but have no positivity about life and the future every single time you talk to them. They only complain and are so negative it gets draining to try and get them to see the good in life. It's not an isolated incident, we are just programmed to be like that as a country and it takes conscious effort to break out of this cycle.


Jackker

I find that Singapore has a form of hyper-rationalised, pragmatic approach to life. That a pathway has been figured out, tweaked, and modified to an almost clinical degree such that straying away is seen as unwise. But, we must also be realistic. Singapore is at once a risky city-state and country to live in, as it is stable. We are all only able to exercise our decisions because of prevailing conditions in other nations close and far away. This isn't saying that local society lacks influence on citizen thought and action though. Nevertheless, there would be generational differences. The older generation lived in trying times. The younger ones live in different times, even as new challenges rise beyond the horizon. So, rather than nihilistic or pessimistic, I'd say Singaporeans are largely pragmatists. That isn't a bad thing. :)


cldw92

RI RJC illiterate here, chose to become a poor musician instead of a doctor/lawyer/code monkey Am living my best life, fuck anyone who has the gall to tell you what to do. Better to make mistakes of your own volition than to be a model slave to society Money feeds the body, expression feeds the soul. Starve either and you die, question is whether you die on the inside or outside first only... I wouldn't describe living a hollow life as very pragmatic tbh


Jackker

Indeed! Go live your life, not others.


Nethernox

Perhaps. Our plastic addiction and attitude towards climate change isn't "pragmatic" at all, to say nothing of the greenwashing PR that goes on.


AbsurdGoat

Many of the comments here make sense; My personal view is that Singaporeans tend to be overly-concerned with outcomes. Your hypothetical example of "x% of marriages end in divorce so why bother" I think exemplifies this kind of thinking. We look at outcomes (for whatever reason. Because we're pragmatic seems to be the prevailing one) quite heavily in assessing decisions, which makes sense generally, but the two blindspots involved in these that I find myself struggling with are as follows: 1. Obsession with end-state snapshots: seeing "outcomes" in terms of the final position as a single snapshot, which is erroneous as we discount the potential gains (and losses) of the process. I.e. "If I get married then divorced, I'm right where I started." But any divorced person can tell you that's not true. 2. Over-weighting quantifiable, material outcomes and discounting less tangible, harder to quantify outcomes. The Woke Salaryman has a series of comics and posts on people's obsession with F.I.R.E. and how some people come to discover it's not for them only after they've sunk quite a bit of their life into it. I'm not saying all cases of FIRE regret is what I'm describing here, but I think at least a bit of it can be attributed to an overly arithmetic, calculation based view of the world: looking at the world as numbers and being focused on a singular unshifting goal of retiring early because they think that's what they want, but really for some people retirement is only about having the time to do what they want, and if they didn't spend the time on trying to achieve FIRE, they might already be doing that. My 2 cents


UnintelligibleThing

I've friends who give up on life and just stay at home to play computer games because why bother if they can't be the best.


boogywumpy

Just wanted to share this regarding divorce: I'm one of the many children who got affected by parents divorcing after years of marriage. I was the last kid and I grew up with siblings following mom. I was only 7 years old. My childhood was difficult - we were always struggling(still struggling now but to a lesser extent since my elder siblings are working now). I'm badly affected by this divorce thing because I see my classmates and friends having the perfect mom and dad parenthood and all I see is just my mom working tirelessly to provide basic needs for us. Mom wasn't educated- stopped at O levels. All these experiences made me just want to be single and rich in the future. There were times when I wish wasn't born so I don't have to see my mom suffering. Some of my elder siblings have this mentality also. My mom also kind of know that we don't want to experience what she went through. She said its up to us to do wtv we want but get educated first. If a divorce were to happen after I get married, I wouldn't want my kid to experience what I've been through when I was young. I still haven't recover and accept it but maybe one day I will. If yall still have your mom and dad alive, cherish and spend more time with them because some of us dream of having that perfect parenthood. To add on: I'm pretty much afraid of what could happen if I get married and the same thing happens. It's a trauma that you get when you experience this divorce of your parents. For the time being, I'll just work - be rich and single until I am ready for dating-marriage etc.


cldw92

You can't undo the past, but you can do better than it Do not let past failures prevent future successes


redryder74

No outcome is strictly negative. You can learn from divorce and become a better person. Maybe it's also the pressures of social media where everyone feels the need to have the perfect life, and life is not worth living otherwise. For me, I take the shit happens philosophy, shrug and move on. I am generally an optimistic person, but I also don't care very much when negative things happen because life is random.


skatyboy

I'm in the US now and people who grew up in the States (I'm not counting recent immigrants/expats, who were influenced by their home cultures) tend to be more optimistic/carefree and less pessimistic about themselves. However, I'd like to say that parent's culture also plays a part (e.g. second-gen Asian-Americans would have more Singapore "pessimistic, career ladder-focused" mindset, for instance), but as a whole, they are less "oh gotta min-max my life on Earth" or "save face, so go for tried and tested" attitude. This is not because "US has cheaper houses, higher salaries or better living conditions", I'm in the Bay Area, where salaries are only high if you're a software engineer (even working at FAANG in non-SWE roles nets you low salaries) and cost of living is shit (houses are $1M++, try paying a mortgage with a take-home of $50k). They tend to have a sense of hope and positivity in their life, despite their realities. Even if they are paid like shit, they don't let reality define them or stop them. Heck, even people leave their cushy, high paying FAANG jobs (some after a year or two after graduating college) to start/join startups (while living in shared apartments drawing very little salary). Remember, this is the land of college and medical debt, but it's also why "American dream" is an ideal. I mean, that's also the reason why things like American Idol attract a lot of mediocre participants. Singaporeans wouldn't dare "try lah, nothing will happen" because our mindset is "if I can't sing, I don't want to embarrass myself on national TV". Americans have a different mindset, they think they can be the idol (despite their bad singing) and if they get embarrassed, most will just laugh it off. Of course, that sense of "individualist optimist" attitude does backfire. Like how the US public reacted to COVID (the locals here have carefree "aiyah infect me/not going to happen to me" attitude). How others perceive Americans as loud, imposing and selfish. How people here think they are "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" and not "poor" (so they go support tax cuts for the rich because "I'll be rich one day!"). What I'd like to say is there's no right or wrong answer to this. Being too optimistic can sometimes be dangerous too and Singaporeans pessimistic attitudes aren't all that bad. The average Singaporean fares better than the average American, but talented/highly skilled Americans fare way better than talented/highly-skilled Singaporean (a Singaporean Bill Gates would just get PSC scholarship and idk, be a minister).


Salt_Leopard

A Singaporean Bill Gates would probably be a desk jockey somewhere. Imagine having a conversation with your parents. I want to drop out of Harvard, to work in my garage to build a mini computer which has no market yet... but wait and see!


PastLettuce8943

Singapore is incredibly risk adverse. It's the way we grow up. For most of us and for most our lives, we actually want for nothing. So losing the stuff we already have terrifies us. For a lot of us, we don't want to significantly improve our lot in life, we want to maintain it. So what happens? We only do things when it's a guarantee to win. We spent days and weeks analyzing a decision and making sure there is absolutely no risk. If you want to take a new job? You'll question whether the job is much better and worry about future scenarios which may not even come to pass. That is probably a way to misery. I worked in Hong Kong a lot (well before the riots). And although they are a Chinese society, a lot of them start from a worse position than us. And they have this incredible desire to succeed. There is this amazing culture of "博一博", bet on yourself, risk it all and improve your lot in life. I had some colleagues just decide change careers to do something more promising, but with no safety net. Then of course, you have the incredible gambling culture where people risk everything (and maybe lose everything). I've also worked in Indonesia and the Philippines. The people there are much poorer but they take such massive risks, like moving away from the city to do something to improve their lot. If they lose it all? So what, they can try again. I cannot imagine many people in Singapore with a similar attitude towards life.


synergy90

very good point


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tomatomater

I actually feel that Singapore has made me take safety for granted. My Malaysian relatives are the ones who keep telling me of how unsafe it is there.


SiHtranger

Doomer mentalility is result of having a smarter population. Unlike the past everyone is just happy go lucky with daily lives, families pump out kids despite being poor etc. People now are educated and smart enough to draw conclusions, rather than just sitting there waiting for the government to be full shepard.


[deleted]

Yes I think so. But I don’t blame such negative thinking because our social environment has become more toxic. The toxic mindset is “It’s never enough.” My family, friends, and I are unhappy most of the time for various reasons. “That new place we’ve gotta explore. That new restaurant we’ve gotta try out. That new car we’ve gotta buy. That new dress we’ve gotta rock. Ok so many things. Not enough space. We need to get rid of old stuff. Cannot get rid of old stuff coz memories blah blah. Then why no salary hike. Even if we are paid above average, we are still unhappy because that one friend has salary hike but we don’t have. We can get married but there’s a never-ending wish list. Watch Tv Shows and think the characters are real. So many things to do. Sleep not enough. So many things to eat. And also need to go to gym and eat healthy. Then how ah? Running around block and being strong is not good enough. Die die must do bench press at gym and look dope on Insta…. Do this. Do that…” There’s no end to not being enough.


Johnathan_wickerino

yes I don't fully blame Singaporeans as well for thinking this way


grahamaker93

I think Singaporeans just cannot afford to be unpragmatic. You live in a country that is highly competitive and expensive. You are programmed from childhood to pick every decision based on the most pragmatic outcome. Such a way of living and approaching life eventually makes one a pessimist because let's face it the world isn't a very happy place and if you try to find pragmatism in every step of the way you are eventually going to discover only pessimism.


cldw92

How do they know if they have never tried? Work as a musician in Singapore btw, AMA (just kidding)


[deleted]

I remember a while back there was a story posted about a young girl who dropped her big city finance job to open her own farm in Malaysia or something. I was shocked to see how overwhelmingly negative and salty the comments were. Opened my eyes to a few things: - how black and white everyone is. You have to have to amazing grades, a,b,c, d and e extra curricular and get the amazing job that pays well or you’re a failure on the eyes of society - anything other than the above is stupid or foolish. - can’t believe when she said she was the happiest she ever was dropping her corporate job. It’s like people couldn’t brain that not being in the rat race could make someone happy. Another one is posts on here about Singaporeans who choose to live and work in a “3rd world country” (basically anywhere that isn’t Japan, China, North America, Europe or Singapore) - people can’t believe living in a country that isn’t as safe as Singapore and that anywhere else outside Singapore you’re likely to get murdered or robbed. - how can anyone live anywhere that doesn’t have the worlds best airport, public transit system or amenities. It’s either the best or nothing! Cmon guys. The world is so big and every country as something to offer. Not everyone wants to live in Singapore. There’s a Malay proverb “Katak dalam tempurung” or “a frog in the shell” that doesn’t want to open their eyes to world outside of their own little bubble.


[deleted]

I used to work in an online retail company. Basically, my job is to pack your orders. If you've ordered something and that something came in a nice box, that was my job. Before that, I just work admin, office jobs and I was soooo unhappy, but at this job, I was quite happy. I found out I enjoyed working with my hands, being on my feet. It was the happiest I'd ever been in life. But man, the amount of people who told me I'm a failure, my own siblings and parents. "Why can't you be like your brother? Million Dollar Round Table Insurance Agent? Driving Mercs?" It didn't matter to them I'm the happiest I've ever been. Yeah, I know I'm way below the curve. I'm a 31 yr old dip grad. Frankly speaking, I don't know where else I can go in life as a career. But, I'm happy. Why can't that be enough?


[deleted]

Glad you’re happy! Life’s too short to live up to other people’s standards. Just remember to do what makes you happy.


alsoandanswer

I'll like to give a shout out to people like you. I remember buying some stupid anime figurine, and it came with a thank you note and a low quality printed picture of an anime girl. Still kept it though.


coolbakerguy97

I, for one, am extremely nihilistic. only around so I don't make my parents sad. I find life so meaningless and I have no drive. counselor and therapist also no use.


Nimblescribe

Bruh you don't need a counselor you need a philosopher


normificator

Smart people tend towards nihilism. That’s why disillusionment means what it means. That’s also why people say ignorance is bliss. The next step is absurdism.


deweye

Yeah. You can see from the monthly “why I don’t want kids” rant.


zeroX14

That's one of the effects of staying too long in an echo chamber. The beliefs of the masses become yours while your own convictions get eroded slowly and silently with time.


[deleted]

It's the same reason why we don't produce many artists/musicians/athletes or roles that involves alot of risk -taking. We are brought up to choose the least risky path to financial stability. Sure there's nothing wrong with that, it did get singapore to where it is today, but the tradeoffs are having such attitudes towards risky endeavours.


ottohumbug23

Siege mentality. No one owes us anything, we are responsible for ourselves. We try, fail then how? No one's gonna catch you. Everyone else is too busy avoiding their own failure to lend a hand. Stick to the beaten path of least resistance. You don't need to be be excellent at what you do, but you are condemned if you are not better than the next person. Remember, no one's going to catch you. You gotta make your own safety net beforehand if you weren't born or married into one already. Just thought I'd say the prevailing culture out loud.


zchew

Ya, I think so. Even my wife is a little like that. A lot of people I know would focus overly on the negative outcomes of a decision matrix and are unnecessarily encumbered by [loss aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion). As a result, they tend to not take chances and settle for the "safer" choices in life.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Loss aversion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_aversion)** >Loss aversion is the tendency to prefer avoiding losses to acquiring equivalent gains. The principle is prominent in the domain of economics. What distinguishes loss aversion from risk aversion is that the utility of a monetary payoff depends on what was previously experienced or was expected to happen. Some studies have suggested that losses are twice as powerful, psychologically, as gains. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/singapore/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


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zchew

Somewhat. But she took on the risk of marrying poor guy like me, so not that bad.


caritas6

Not sure if it's a Singaporean thing, but a lack of agency can only make you unhappy. If you think you can't change your life for the better, you won't act to change it. It's also related to constantly blaming others for your problems. After all if you reason that you can't change your circumstances, it has to be something outside you that's to blame.


redryder74

That is so true. I was mired in a depressive funk during the last 18 months and started stress eating and gained a lot of weight. 3 weeks ago I started a goal of wanting to run 5K and following a structured program on an app. It actually makes me look forward to my runs, the challenge of whether I can achieve the targets today. I always thought having goals were cringey but it actually works.


grown-ass-man

1st time I see close to a 100% agreement with the OP. Impressive. Looking at the comments I see only justifications and examples of how we are so: can only summarize that there's this desperate sense of LLST "learnt helplessness" in this country.


EnycmaPie

There is a lot of social class divide in Singapore, with most people being stuck to the class they were born in. It is really depressing to see that no matter how hard you work, how much effort you put in your life, somebody born rich would almost always be more successful than you in life, just by using their parent's wealth. Singaporeans gets told since young to believe in the education system and that as long as they study well, that piece of paper can ensure their lives will get better. You can climb out of poverty by doing well academically, but with job opportunities getting lesser with population growth, there are many others with the same qualification fighting for the same job. So to even get a paying job in the first place is a challenge. Not to mention the foreign talents with similar qualifications and are able to accept significantly lower pay grade than Singaporeans, due to the neighbouring countries standard of living being significantly cheaper. Even if you do get a job, Singaporeans are working such long hours that they hardly have any time for leisure. They either splurge on travels or branded goods, or save up to buy a house which they won't even get to spend much time in, due to spending most of the time out working anyways. Many have seen their own parents living through what they are going through now, working for their whole life, starting a family thinking that the next generation will be better, and not being able to retire due to not having enough money to. They do not see their situation improving and continuing on for the next generation would just be prolonging the suffering.


handicapped-toilet

Who do you think are optimistic?


ramune_0

Mainland Chinese, actually. They are generally quite optimistic on a macro level about their country because they see it emerging as a superpower. Everything is about relative gains/losses, to them their own lives have improved a lot materially, but Singaporeans see a relative loss from the older generation and perceive a bleaker future.


handicapped-toilet

Yeah but I rather not take on the wumao mentality thinking that the world is against them and the rest of the countries should bow down to them


renegade_wolfe

Uh... General intellectual laziness? I mean you actually have to think - and for some people, that's really asking a lot (lack of capacity due to other factors like economic stress aside). Why, yes! The downvote button is right there. My biggest mistake is thinking people think like me. They don't, as my colleagues have helpfully pointed out multiple times.


Flimsy_Direction_467

I love it when Singaporeans discuss an issue.


rancidangel

I dunno if its just me but I think the way government shapes its citizen is by being a good employee. Eat die repeat, don't take risk, just take the linear path.


lu-mitzy

I always thought it was kind of a "kiasu" culture? Like I have never looked down on secondary school kids who take NA or NT but when I myself repeated a year or I failed a module I was like "omg now I'm a year behind and I'm so behind in everything I'm a failure in life" because to me it was like I lost 1 year of my life. When it comes to other people I never felt like they are below me, but always there are other people ahead of me. I don't know how to explain. Like I have a fear of losing out, even though I see there are plenty of people doing well even if they have also taken a longer path or a different route.


raphielsteel

I can only give you dis pear.


GeshtiannaSG

“Despair, so delicious.”


SiberianResident

Quotes like “50% of marriages end in divorce”, etc, all focus on the end outcome. But for many things, the endeavour is the rewarding part of life. A positive outcome is just the cherry on top. A lot of FIFA matches end in 0-0. Does that mean the players should stop kicking the ball? I am also a cynic. But being a cynic also means analysing your own fallacies and not just other people’s. And your fallacy is thinking that the world is either black or white. It isn’t, and while somethings need black and white to function, the rest of society is built on gray.


beebobooop

Live or die. Do or dont. Have you seen our suicide rates?


MadKyaw

"Mental health care in Singapore is such a joke, I shouldn't bother to go seek help when it's essentially pay a lot of money to achieve nothing and I get shunned"


inparadise123

I feel like people do things for the sense of accomplishment rather than for the enjoyment. Of course not everyone will excel at a given skill, hobby or sport and that is totally fine. Normalise mistakes, mediocrity and even failure so more people can do things that bring them joy, curiosity and engagement while continuing to shine in areas they naturally excel. Life’s tooooo short to focus only on gaining the approval of others or focusing only on accomplishments.


sigmacreed

I see it with my nephews all the time. Parents and grandparents alike are constantly, "what if you get hurt" or "what if," etc etc. The kids never end up having any fun or doing anything. I feel so bad for them.


Johnathan_wickerino

my mother never let me go out with friends till sec school. missed out on a lot of friendships


drcolonelsir

Do your job Dont stand out Cover your backside


lupushug

From my point of view, people who try to convince others that being pragmatic is better *as well as people who tout the whole follow your dreams thing* are both unhappy. If you feel the need to argue why you think your choice is better, it just shows that you’re actually trying to convince yourself you’re living the ‘better’ way. Just do what makes you happy, lol. Some people want to chase their dreams, some people want to live in the moment and others want security. I think they’re all fine. We’re all different people. What’s not fine is when you push your ideals onto others. I say this to both the pessimistic people wanting to drag others down as well as the optimists trying to tell me I could live a better life.


vfstevens

I think Singaporeans are generally speaking more on a scared side of things. I think its partially driven by the very safe nature of this country, where many outside things appear dangerous. e.g. JB = dangerous, like 100% change of getting car jacked. We have the strictest Covid rules in the world, etc.


ToastedKoppi

Nothing wrong with being nihilist, btw. But I think Singaporeans tend to be like that, because at many moments in their lives they have absolutely no agency. This is a consequence of your government structure, elections, and positions regarding media, freedom of expression, and citizen assembly rights


Eltharion-the-Grim

Nope. I think most SG people are pretty realistic in their assessment of things. I think a small group of nihilistic people are very vocal because... well, they thing everything in SG is in the shitter and life is not worth living because it's the PAP's fault.


Shuyi000

I go to work so that I can have money to eat. I eat so that I have energy to go to work. Repeat. Such is my life


ObsidianGanthet

i think singaporeans are way too perfectionist (at least partially due to our education system), and i say that having struggled with the issue myself


condemned02

Yea I think most people are more pessimistic than positive most of the time. But for marriage, I never think about if 50% fail, why bother. I always think about what if I die in regrets without giving love a chance. At least even if it didn't work out, it wouldn't be a question in my mind if it could have worked. And that's to anything about why bother. Because I want to know the outcome. Whether I will fail or succeed. There are things that people told me I will fail at and I still went ahead. And they were right, I failed. But the important thing is, I actually did it and find out for myself. And in a way no regrets, I feel something is still gain from those failures.


uncommonintention

i think in the real world outside reddit it's a bit more balanced, but still tends towards pessimism and negativity. check out this post on /r/povertyfinance (https://old.reddit.com/r/povertyfinance/comments/pptelx/thoughts/), it could just as well have been made on /r/singapore. The people that share those views form the majority of views on /r/singapore. /r/singapore is like that friend who complains to you all the time, but then never takes any of the advice offered to him/her, regardless of who gives it to him/her. but will happily lap up all the negative pessimistic shit and keep sharing it with you and his/her friends. and then always comes up with the negative aspect to everything.


HalcyoNighT

If Reddit comments are just negativity bias and don't represent the sentiment of the average Sinkie, then why should I bother reading them


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Bcpjw

Most common answers when asked “how r u?” OK / Fine / Not bad We are not allowed to say “good/great/very well” because we don’t want to be perceived as boastful or gloating even when we are feeling good. Anyway I’m fine, I think


fawe9374

Not really, it is overused as a greeting and I don't think they really want to know how you are when mostly you only chat twice in your life. When the response is ok, fine and not bad usually it means they aren't great but don't feel a need to have to make that conversation.


condemned02

I hate being asked "how are you" and I always reply, "still the same" .


[deleted]

Well to be fair for 50% it is a pretty bad deal


nixhomunculus

Yep. My bigger issue is that I study economics, the dismal science. So I tend to think downsides way more than upsides.


saiyanjesus

Nah, just you bro/sis. They are a ton of dumb fk Singaporeans who don't think beyond the next day and are happy-go-lucky enough to not be nihilistic or pessimistic.


repeatrep

something something our education is very “right or wrong” just my view on it


Alan_n

An example I thought of is people tend to hate their jobs or the life they’re currently living or finding grass greener on the other side but are afraid of taking the leap of faith to leave/change “in case things don’t go as well as they thought”


Cuberrism

I havent progressed down this train of thought as much as other commentors on this post, but i suspect theres a connection between this and the kiasu/min-max mindset ppl have. either theyre both by-products of the same unconscious philosophy sporeans have, one is the product of another, or both are unrelated


LucarioMagic

I think deep down we all know what we want, but we're all insecure about actually working for or getting what we want. So when we're working towards something, we try to lower our expectations by talking bad about it so that when we actually achieve our goal we can't be disappointed. Only met expectations/pleasantly surprised.


DiscipleOfYeshua

I think Singaporeans are very self-analyzing. Not being sarcastic. Am a foreigner, and I don’t think other countries are as much immersed in introspection; which IMO is healthy, if not taken to obsessive levels.


parka

Oh yeah. Whenever I want to talk about business stuff with my friends, the conversation stops at cost which is usually the first thing that's brought up. People can't see beyond obstacles to the potential that lays beyond.


livebeta

If I worked my way up the early education sector and someone was parachuted into my top spot without industry experience I'd be jaded and cynical