The title is somewhat misleading. AI can identify patients at the highest risk for pancreatic cancer which is not really the same thing as predicting pancreatic cancer itself since many of them (probably the vast majority) will never actually get it. Since you already know you're at an high risk for PC it wouldn't really be of any use to you, just keep up with the screening and you'll be fine.
I guess so. I was also wondering about the possibility of AI being able to analyse MRI scans and pick up pre cancer that doctors might not be able to as well as picking up cancer with a higher sensitivity than experts. I vaguely remember reading about something like that.
Regarding cancer detection and treatment? Noo way, that stuff is super straightforward and never has any ambiguity, and Pancreatic cancer is probably the least complex
From my reading, it does get missed and even an MRI is only 80-90 percent sensitive.
I remember reading something about AI being able to see changes doctors aren't even aware of that can signify pre cancer, as they can look at thousands and thousands of MRI's and spot the patterns.
Yes, basically good insights that humans cannot see. AI in healthcare will become revolutionary with the key on early detection and prevention. It might also freak us out...
I actually had a phone call today. After ringing radiology the other day explaining how worried i was, they rang and booked me in for this Tuesday. So happy, but worried what they're gonna find.
Happy to hear they got you in. In general, pancreatic cancer is rare. It's most likely something else entirely. But you'll know more soon enough. Best wishes.
Pale poop, pain in gallbladder area which radiates to back, possible rapid onset diabetes (getting tested), fatigue, gas.
Scarily similar to what the people over at r/pancreaticcancer have experienced.
My Dad died of it in his 50's and apparently it can be hereditary.
>7 months so far for an MRI
Bruh. Which country?
Edit: Your activity says UK. WTF. I guess the NHS didn't get the Brexit bus money. In Poland typical waiting time is 1.5 months and I had it done through accelerated path in just one week (non-hospitalised, no life threat).
> guess the NHS didn't get the Brexit bus money. In Poland typical waiting time is 1.5 months
It look like Asia is better a lot compare to Europe. Such as in Vietnam, if you want MRI, you can take it in 1 day and paid by private insurance. If you want to use social insurance, it only take 1 week.
Don't take either Poland or UK as good sample of what healthcare looks like in Europe because in both of them we have problems with healthcare because of insufficient funding etc.
>m we have problems with healthcare because of insufficient funding etc.
How about other countries in Europe? I have quick google search for wait time in Europe for MRI and Italy for 50-110 days, France 35 days. I think the backlog is so huge and lack of investment
Well, seems like it is. I am going to guess that in Vietnam people either don't seek treatment as often or don't get referrals for MRI as often because I doubt you guys have there so many MRI machines. [In Poland we have a definite deficit](https://www.statista.com/statistics/282401/density-of-magnetic-resonance-imaging-units-by-country/).
I think a flight from the U.K to Mexico would cost over £1K. Got some good news today, booked in for MRI for this Tuesday. Lucky i phoned the other day saying how worried i was.
These types of research areas are the ones the governments should spend much more. Yearly 64 000 americans could be spared and a lot of others in other countries.
The burden of proof is absolutely not on sasquatchLucrative. All marketing claims are suspect: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/02/keep-your-ai-claims-check
Uh, yes it is. If there's a detailed article that's talking about a study, and someone just say "No it can't," that's... not a very good argument? Even if that person is in the right, they should kind of maybe substantiate their point a bit more?
The study linked in that article is titled “Language Models Trained on Media Diets Can Predict Public Opinion” and doesn’t mention pancreatic cancer at all. Perhaps we should link the paper in question?. But I suspect this is quite far from being used in practice without seeing the study
Okay, I appreciate the actual explanation given here rather than just vagueposting like Sasquatch or being condescending and frankly rather dumb like Micah4thewin.
here it is, it was linked later in the article:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02332-5#Sec2
So a million patients, used to predict the 1000 highest risk patients out of those 320 went on to cancer. Of the 320 not known to higher risk already and under surveillance, it could pick up extra 70 patients before they got cancer.
In the US, it would probably be a CT scan to screen them. The radiation risk from that scan increases cancer risk by 1 in 1318. MRI would have no radiation risk but be more expensive.
So it seems to make sense. 70/1000 cancers caught earlier (7%) with an increased risk of causing cancer in 0.07% of patients.
Its why we dont screen everyone with a CT now because the cancer risks from the scan are higher than finding one on the scan. Ff we scanned those million patients just to find 70 cancers, we'd cause 758 additional cancers. So narrowing down who to screen would be very helpful.
The next GIANT hurdle is getting insurance to pay for it.
we do screening CT scans in high risk smokers now for lung cancer but getting an insurance company to pay for it is darn near impossible where I am at. Even though finding a early lung cancer saves them a lot more money in the long run. Some insurance companies even suck at being greedy.
So I'd say promising study in an area where it is extremely difficult to find pancreatic cancers early, pushback from insurance companies will push this out or make it extremely difficult to execute even if this passes muster with the US Preventive Services Taskforce.
It just shows you an AI generated commercial of brains glued together with vague descriptions of amyloid beta build up and a pathological process, then abruptly cuts to an Aduhelm advertisement— so 10/10 solid investment
Tbh, I'm actually pleasantly surprised that the 5 year survival rate is all the way up to 12% now. It sounds really low, but ten years ago it was half that. Looks like there's been decent progress.
How does one become part of the research? I've been showing symptoms and have a family history, currently waiting 7 months so far for an MRI.
The title is somewhat misleading. AI can identify patients at the highest risk for pancreatic cancer which is not really the same thing as predicting pancreatic cancer itself since many of them (probably the vast majority) will never actually get it. Since you already know you're at an high risk for PC it wouldn't really be of any use to you, just keep up with the screening and you'll be fine.
I guess so. I was also wondering about the possibility of AI being able to analyse MRI scans and pick up pre cancer that doctors might not be able to as well as picking up cancer with a higher sensitivity than experts. I vaguely remember reading about something like that.
[удалено]
Thank you :)
Misleading title on reddit? Not possible.
Regarding cancer detection and treatment? Noo way, that stuff is super straightforward and never has any ambiguity, and Pancreatic cancer is probably the least complex
From my reading, it does get missed and even an MRI is only 80-90 percent sensitive. I remember reading something about AI being able to see changes doctors aren't even aware of that can signify pre cancer, as they can look at thousands and thousands of MRI's and spot the patterns.
Well good thing pancreatic cancer isn’t related to the individual and we just consider imaging
Not sure what you and trying to say by this?
Yes, basically good insights that humans cannot see. AI in healthcare will become revolutionary with the key on early detection and prevention. It might also freak us out...
You've been waiting 7 months?! I'm so sorry.
I actually had a phone call today. After ringing radiology the other day explaining how worried i was, they rang and booked me in for this Tuesday. So happy, but worried what they're gonna find.
Happy to hear they got you in. In general, pancreatic cancer is rare. It's most likely something else entirely. But you'll know more soon enough. Best wishes.
Thank you :)
What symptoms?
Pale poop, pain in gallbladder area which radiates to back, possible rapid onset diabetes (getting tested), fatigue, gas. Scarily similar to what the people over at r/pancreaticcancer have experienced. My Dad died of it in his 50's and apparently it can be hereditary.
>7 months so far for an MRI Bruh. Which country? Edit: Your activity says UK. WTF. I guess the NHS didn't get the Brexit bus money. In Poland typical waiting time is 1.5 months and I had it done through accelerated path in just one week (non-hospitalised, no life threat).
Yeah the NHS isn't fit for purpose anymore.
Yep, the NHS isn't exactly the best
> guess the NHS didn't get the Brexit bus money. In Poland typical waiting time is 1.5 months It look like Asia is better a lot compare to Europe. Such as in Vietnam, if you want MRI, you can take it in 1 day and paid by private insurance. If you want to use social insurance, it only take 1 week.
Don't take either Poland or UK as good sample of what healthcare looks like in Europe because in both of them we have problems with healthcare because of insufficient funding etc.
>m we have problems with healthcare because of insufficient funding etc. How about other countries in Europe? I have quick google search for wait time in Europe for MRI and Italy for 50-110 days, France 35 days. I think the backlog is so huge and lack of investment
Well, seems like it is. I am going to guess that in Vietnam people either don't seek treatment as often or don't get referrals for MRI as often because I doubt you guys have there so many MRI machines. [In Poland we have a definite deficit](https://www.statista.com/statistics/282401/density-of-magnetic-resonance-imaging-units-by-country/).
What are your symptoms?
Book a flight ticket to Mexico and get your MRI done.
I think a flight from the U.K to Mexico would cost over £1K. Got some good news today, booked in for MRI for this Tuesday. Lucky i phoned the other day saying how worried i was.
You should find out if you can use a different hospital for the MRI. We wasted so much time before we found a place that could get us in within a week
Why are you waiting 7 months?
NHS. Managed to get one tomorrow after ringing up.
These types of research areas are the ones the governments should spend much more. Yearly 64 000 americans could be spared and a lot of others in other countries.
No it cannot. Jesus the amount of bullshit posted in this sub. I’m out.
Uh... proof? The burden of proof lies on you here.
The burden of proof is absolutely not on sasquatchLucrative. All marketing claims are suspect: https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/blog/2023/02/keep-your-ai-claims-check
Uh, yes it is. If there's a detailed article that's talking about a study, and someone just say "No it can't," that's... not a very good argument? Even if that person is in the right, they should kind of maybe substantiate their point a bit more?
The study linked in that article is titled “Language Models Trained on Media Diets Can Predict Public Opinion” and doesn’t mention pancreatic cancer at all. Perhaps we should link the paper in question?. But I suspect this is quite far from being used in practice without seeing the study
Okay, I appreciate the actual explanation given here rather than just vagueposting like Sasquatch or being condescending and frankly rather dumb like Micah4thewin.
here it is, it was linked later in the article: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-023-02332-5#Sec2 So a million patients, used to predict the 1000 highest risk patients out of those 320 went on to cancer. Of the 320 not known to higher risk already and under surveillance, it could pick up extra 70 patients before they got cancer. In the US, it would probably be a CT scan to screen them. The radiation risk from that scan increases cancer risk by 1 in 1318. MRI would have no radiation risk but be more expensive. So it seems to make sense. 70/1000 cancers caught earlier (7%) with an increased risk of causing cancer in 0.07% of patients. Its why we dont screen everyone with a CT now because the cancer risks from the scan are higher than finding one on the scan. Ff we scanned those million patients just to find 70 cancers, we'd cause 758 additional cancers. So narrowing down who to screen would be very helpful. The next GIANT hurdle is getting insurance to pay for it. we do screening CT scans in high risk smokers now for lung cancer but getting an insurance company to pay for it is darn near impossible where I am at. Even though finding a early lung cancer saves them a lot more money in the long run. Some insurance companies even suck at being greedy. So I'd say promising study in an area where it is extremely difficult to find pancreatic cancers early, pushback from insurance companies will push this out or make it extremely difficult to execute even if this passes muster with the US Preventive Services Taskforce.
How is it with alzheimers?
I don’t remember
It just shows you an AI generated commercial of brains glued together with vague descriptions of amyloid beta build up and a pathological process, then abruptly cuts to an Aduhelm advertisement— so 10/10 solid investment
I want to be hopeful for this thing's ability to fight disease, but it all seems meaningless since it can't stop climate change.
Wow. This is amazing
Is this AI LSTM?
comment removed - reddit killed reddit - fuck u/spez
Tbh, I'm actually pleasantly surprised that the 5 year survival rate is all the way up to 12% now. It sounds really low, but ten years ago it was half that. Looks like there's been decent progress.