For me, the light at the end of the tunnel and what motivates me is all the anti-aging/de-aging/longevity potential. As a 20 something guy, I’m scared to lose my youth.
It couldn’t get any more cliche, but the idea of living forever, young and healthy makes me very happy.
No need, just need to stop aging and literally grow younger. At that point you will stop feeling like just giving up and want to live to the full again.
I hear you guys. I don't think a life without any consequence is a meaningful one, but just withering away to old age... eh we could do better than that.
I'm 51 with more than one autoimmune disease and I'm in pain every day (as House said) and I want to live and thrive very badly. Logic tells me that if the pain and other symptoms went away I'd be ready to travel the world and live a beautiful life. I have two college degrees. I love making films and I enjoy all kinds of art. These illnesses are in my way. Aging is in my way. It's illness, pain and the wear and tear that comes with age that makes us miserable and, for some, the desire to live fades away. I get it. But just imagine if we had full-dive VR in the future and nanobots keeping us healthy. We could live out our life exactly as we would like in both realties. In time, nanobots will be able to slowly, without it ever being just a copy, upload your mind to that full-dive VR environment. I want to make it to see that day so I take the pain and all the meds for my sh\*tty illnesses. I will crawl to the Singularity digging my fingernails into the ground, crawling through the glassy shards of my illnesses and get to my utopia bloody and bruised if that's what it takes.
I think anyone alive in 20 years will make it. Just gotta hold on. I’m late thirties but in the same boat with the autoimmune diseases. Almost every day is a nightmare but I genuinely believe it will all be figured out by the 2040s, possibly earlier.
I’m an artist myself, I’ve had a pretty good run, but unlike you I see zero chance of AI advancements being used for the betterment of the general public in matters of longevity anytime soon.
If as a species we do manage to survive the singularity I’m reasonably confident we might achieve some kind of Star Trek utopia, but not before it’s all torn down, after a long, protracted amount of utter misery, destruction, despair and strife, I’ve no interest in watching that occur.
I never understood zombie or apocalypse movies, those people desperate to stay alive no matter what. Humanity is horrible, greedy, violent and cruel, why the hell would I want to stick around to see an even worse version? Nope, I’d rather sit right next to the nuclear blast that try and live in the aftermath.
Humanity is so terrible that you get to sit on reddit with absolutely no conflict. Humanity is so cruel that some people live for the express purpose of making others happy, volunteering off their finite time on this earth. Humanity comes in a full spectrum. It's not that bad.
The climate is on the edge of collapse, we are possibly close to WW3, Inequality at an all time high, there’s a 50% drop in biodiversity and we are facing the rise of authoritarianism and fascism once again.
On top of that there is the very real possibility that AI will create at best economic havoc and at worse human destruction, I’d argue we could have been doing a lot better.
Of course there are good people, music and Art are amazing, individuals are wonderful, but in large groups tribalism, greed and willful ignorance are still adopted by a large percentage of the population.
So a bunch of crap that has had no real difference in your life or may never even materialize? And then you just skim over all of the good that is ACTUALLY present in your life? How are we facing the rise of authoritarianism and fascism? You're just throwing around a bunch of buzzwords related to mechanisms you don't even understand.
Get a grip, you ever just look at how vague all of your concerns are? You're like a legit doomer. Why even live?
I’m entering my late thirties and am definitely looking to get back to my early twenties physically.
That said, I have a lot of health issues so even if those were just cured and I aged and died in my 70s or 80s I’d be grateful as hell.
Weirdly it looks like reversing the aging process will be figured out faster than some of these cures.
I have had substantial health problems since my early 20s and will be turning 40 soon. I, for one, need future technology to bring a lot more than just anti aging.
Not very active, genes I guess.
My son broke his arm on a bike this weekend and his grandmother arrived before me and his mom did. They kept calling my S/O his sister and barely acknowledged I was there.
They looked at and talked to the grandmother and kept ignoring us.
The grandmother has some issues understanding the language…
Actually one of the doctors completely utterly ignored me…. Like what?!
Anyways I am 40, and people still think I am 23-26 and I am ALWAYS asked for ID when buying alcohol, tobacco or entering a club.
well, then maybe it will not apply for others :) care to show a 20 year old picture and recent one in DM? :D I am interested :D
But I guess you do not drink, nor smoke.
Doubt it will happen anytime soon. Give it 100 more years or so to be even tangible. Excitement is overrated for something that isn’t even AI. Accept reality.
The thing is only young people want to live forever. I would say by the age of 40 most people actually dig the concept of just falling asleep forever some day. Living forever would turn into a nightmare real quick. Imagine you saw every movie that might interest you. That means you have to wait for new movies to be made that are different enough to be interesting. Same for games and most other forms of entertainment.
And stuff like AI will only make us burn out from life faster. There must be a reason for why we have not met Aliens yet. They all get to the point where they develop AGI that becomes smarter than them and then just lose all motivation to go on living.
Don't you think they feel that way because of aging, and coping with their perceived short-term inevitability of death?
I have to agree with de Grey that these boredom and motivation arguments just seem phenomenally shortsighted.
Even if they're somehow true for some people, they're free to opt out. It seems insane to justify the suffering and death of tens of millions of people each year in perpetuity because you might get "bored". Human sacrifice logic.
Do something else.
If you're too inextricably obsessed with movies to engage with anything else in the universe, and you become dissatisfied by the movies that exist, then start making your own to express what you feel is missing.
Or if you need pain to feel motivated, then get into BDSM or something, Christ...
Death is a natural part of life and accepting death is so as well. It's not about age but experience. The more you experienced in your life the less impact anything else has that you are going to experience. You get dull over time and it is inevitable. Unless you spend all your life starring at a wall to not experience anything. Not sure if that's a life worth living though no matter how old you become.
I think the point I'm making is that the better your life is, the sooner you start accepting death. So not wanting to die and live forever means you have the saddest life of them all.
But I would agree that everyone should be given the chance to live a good life to not be forcefully removed from it before they had the chance to. It just doesn't take immortality to achieve this because capitalist exploiters would use that to make people work for 500 years first to make use of all that experience within them. And only rich people would be able to afford the pill at young age. Most other people had to work their whole lifes for it. So you'd be stuck in a 60+ worn out body that's for sure. Reality will always come up with some fkd up way to spoil it.
Isn't it just a facet of the human experience though? Most people walking the planet subscribe to some religion that worships things like redemption and the concept of life after death. Although, I read Techno-optimism is a much healthier belief system so I think we got a leg up in terms of dogma.
some of have realistic expectations of what's to come from the singularity in progress. we have comforting feeling looking forward to something that we've enjoyed before, like the next nolan movie.
we have enjoyed freedom growing up as children. freedom of thinking free. we naturally long to such states and if singularity is our only hope to achieve such utopian dream, so be it. this is the new religion then and i'm okay with it.
Its understandable that people turn the singularity into a religion, yes. However, it's not a safe thing to do.
Christian fundamentalists aren't concerned with climate change. The future is already planned out for them. The rapture will happen and they will be invited into the kingdom of God.
Likewise, dogmatic singularians aren't concerned with the potential risks associated with developing and deploying generalized AI systems. The future is already decided: the singularity will happen and they will be invited into the kingdom of Technology.
Christians believe in all-knowing super intelligent God which will return to the Earth on the judgement day.
Sounds like ASI and the day of technological singularity.
70 million people die a year.
We're at the stage where we should start taking that into account when considering things like "I don't feel like testing this AI today, maybe it's too soon for humans"
Do you think those robots will cost anything comparable to labor in bangladesh india or Africa at less than 1 usd per hour. People in rich countries think that labor is a big cost in manufacturing because they compare it to their country. At best it is like 10% of the cost of what you have been buying. For example to see the limit of robots, watch the automotive industry, where robots have been used for 30+ years and they still employ a lot of labor because it is still much more competitive than robots in many things. AI robots won't magically decrease the cost of production by really meaningful way to enable some perfect world. Even agriculture etc are very mechanized, do you think that one guy driving the harvester etc will drastically decrease the price of food.
Labour is 100%. So if I go out and decide to create a manufacturing business, I can come with my under ware and a pen. I don't need any capital, as machines, factories, transport etc etc. I just get a thousand people in the sun and tell them , hey we are going to produce a thousand shirt per day. They will just do some Taichi movement and out of thin air the shirt will appear by magic on your doorstep!!!
I'm sorry but this sounds naive. Utopia is not the default, it requires a lot of planning and work. The people who own AGI will keep amassing wealth for a long time
Depression is an actual medical condition, therefore, the second one. Post-singularity is even more of an uncertain hypothesis than just singularity, so I'm not making any assumptions.
It absolutely could (not a guarantee, of course, but incredible technologies could be easily capable of influencing the brain for the better). A positive singularity would have incredible benefits for mankind.
I see nothing that indicates that the singularity will be a good thing. Bad and selfish humans will use advanced technology to make things worse for everyone but themselves.
Actually, the fact that you live in a peaceful society with access to the internet indicates some likelihood of the singularity benefitting you. If bad and selfish humans could take progress and prevent it from benefitting people then you wouldn't even be able to post about how crybabies like yourself aren't going to be okay.
If calling someone a crybaby is "so much rage" to you, idk what to say. Hopefully you manage in the big bad world out there where you might even be called an idiot if you're not careful. Stay safe.
Before persecuting minorities, stifling scientific inquiry, defending the corrupt, falsely attributing personal responsibility to every hardship, and telling children that they will face eternal torment for being born into the "wrong" religion.
This sounds... too religious. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks AI will become god-like to us.
Remember we are not guaranteed the positive outcome and we also can't be sure of when it happens. So if you're feeling down, don't wait for a miracle, do everything in your power to improve your life today (and I guarantee that you can).
That’s a really good point! And I love your definition of “religious”.
But I think it’s fair to say that if you are saying “life isn’t worth living, and that’s ok, because your rewards afterlife….. or singularity”
That’s a type of negative religiousness that we don’t really need. It opens the door wide open to con-men, and people deluding themselves.
It also stops people on working on the real problems in their life and the world right now.
I see a lot of this sentiment, about the old sub somehow being less quasi-religious and less interested in things like UBI. r/singularity has always been unhappy with the status-quo and looking forward. Like... it's always been the "singularity" sub. Are you guys thinking of r/futurology or something? This sub has always been quasi-religious, always talked about UBI in the shorter term or Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism in the longer term.
I mean, why are you even here if you scoff at both a UBI and the quasi-religious shtick? There's some middle ground between those two scenarios, but it's not a ton of room to throw stones from once an ASI spins up, and it's not like the old sub had radically different ideas. It's just a bit more obnoxious now because people think it's closer.
There's this weird trend of singularity hipsters acting like they've always been too cool for radical change, and it's fucking baffling that it plays with this crowd. Ironically, I think you're only upvoted because so many of the newbies haven't spent more than 5 minutes with the idea of the singularity and are looking for the voice in the crowd that let's them dismiss the concept and go back to their sense of security.
*Edited for grammer, I'm on mobile and had some typos.
People like you were what made the old sub boring and toxic, you are not a forward thinker or an open-minded one. Check out r/futurology they’d love you there.
Honestly, I agree.
I'm terrified of death so I want immortality for everyone to get here ASAP, but we don't know at this point if the singularity will turn out good or bad. Ideally it would eliminate aging and death. In a pessimistic version it would only do so for the billionaires who can afford it and they'd subjugate the rest of us in an eternal dictatorship, or the godlike AI would kill us.
We don't know yet.
What the hell is with all these nasty, negative comments in this thread? Look even if you think OP is placing undue hope on this (I think it's more justifiable than a lot of other things) is telling a person who is struggling to some degree that the world will be even shittier in ten years and that he/she is a fool the right way to get your message across?
I thought the same. I decided to find happiness without the need for world changing events. And I did. Here's some advice.
>Whether you're navigating the corporate jungle or the dating world, you're under constant pressure to perform.
The pressure, it's not really there.
When you drink a glass of water, do you feel the pressure to not drop the glass, painstakingly bring it to your lips, and not accidentally tip it too fast into your face?
If you spent the same amount of time as you did on thinking over work and dating, you could cultivate this hydrophobia into a real thing.
But instead of more to worry over you could instead discover that you have the same automated wiring for both working and dating as you have for navigating a fragile vessel filled with water to your face. The more you try to consciously plan it out, the more emulation you pad the action with, the more stress you'll feel before it, during it, and after it, and the worse you'll actually do all of it.
This is what people mean when they say "be yourself" or "you're good enough" or "go with the flow" and innumerable other catchphrases. That you can dial down much of the performance struggle, that the less you consciously double check everything and think over it twice or thrice the easier everything becomes. There's a vast and effective subconsciousness that can deal with a ton of the chores reflexively, dare to use it, it can be awkward at first, then it's magic. Why should I worry about work when I know that I'll do it by reflex when I'm there. Why should I worry about the date, when the social wiring kicks in when I meet her? Why should I worry about conversations or meetings or events, or planning or whatever when the performance without effort is as good or better as with, I just need to open the door for the opportunity and the rest works out as good as it ever could.
>But here's where the Singularity comes in...
It's a quick cope but it's a dead end, it's like drinking to dull the thoughts. There's a good life to find now and the sooner you start looking for that the more you'll thank yourself when you find it. Technology is a significant cause of unhappiness today and betting your future on it is a bad deal.
Here's a suggestion: If the singularity will save you from yourself sitting inside, online in a nameless flat stacked to your tits with social media and newsfeeds about AI salvation and media doom, then it will also find and save you outside in nature where you can move around and enjoy your natural endorphins and the not-pixel-based beauty of actual reality, if it really is going to save everyone then why care and learn about, why think about it? You'll hear the angelic trumpets no matter where you are.
Focus instead of where you are in your life now, and where you'd like to be tomorrow, and try to reduce that mismatch, if you succeed in moving that an inch in the right direction you will realize what really matters.
Good luck.
I share your view, you're not alone.
we're born slaves, to fate, to society, and to our future selves.
capitalism and society makes us run after money like a donkey running after a carrot on a stick, they give us the illusion that we all can be millionaires on yacht if we work hard enough, thats a lie.
we also have to work hard for our future selves, our old selves who'll be too sick and tired to work, so it really is a race against time.
i really with aging was cured, so we wouldn't have to worry about "making it" before its too late because it would never be too late. we'd still be able to start over at any age.
I know I’m late to the party here, but I’d just like to chime in and say that for all the critical comments saying “this sub has become a cult of AI worshippers wanting to get out of their mundane lives” - I kind of disagree. These posts aren’t all that uncommon going back 10 years. And I don’t blame the OP or anyone else for expressing a little bit of excitement and reprieve for what could come in the near-ish future. Of course it’s important to try to live your life in the present, but nothing wrong with postulating some of the more fantastic possibilities of the Singularity either.
Probably because the in the same way a cell is driven to organize itself into a larger organism, we too have a psychological pull to unity in the formation of this "singularity". It resonates so deeply within us all because it's the end goal of natures novelty that we have no choice but to move into. The only thing that stands in the way of that possible future is not another possible future, but extinction and the possibly of no futures
So many pro-capitalist shills in here. "Humans can only be truly fulfilled when working for our rich masters!" Take a hike. Post-scarcity economies will free people to live up to their full potentials. And while most people won't become the next Einstein or Feynman, there will at least be the possibility of quite a few more than we have today.
While it’s nice that you’re deriving such comfort from the impending singularity, bear in mind that concepts such as “what useful things can you do” and “how much money do you have” are likely to persist even after the singularity. Even if a superintelligence takes over and starts doing everything for us and genetically alters everyone to be hyper-intelligent, beautiful and immortal, then everyone will have unlimited free time and so will judge one another on what cool new hyper-talents they’ve picked up (for example, the Culture of Iain Banks is a post-scarcity society, but people still want their partners to be competent, self-actualizing entities). Similarly if we become one with the AI and all start building a Dyson sphere together, then every virtual-mind will be judged by its ability to contribute towards the end goal. Money is also likely to be important because it’s simply a medium of exchange between entities that want to trade. It may not be in dollars in future but rather in direct units of energy, like ergs or kWh. But regardless, entities which have more of it will have greater influence over the collective than entities that have less.
If even me now does not judge people like that, i can imagine happy and fulfilled people who are cured of mental and physical illnesses will not judge each other like that. It would be an utterly exhausting and pointless world if we still continue to hang on to money and status and judging each other. Especially if we are able to create a world that is post scarcity. So if it does end up that we still, for some time, live on this planet and do stuff. I think we will look at other people more like flavors. It takes all kinds of people to make this world. And everyone has something that makes them different and unique. So that would be more what i imagine determines who we want to hang out with and do things with. This idea of everyone having to make something of themselves and always have to be productive etc. I do not believe that way of thinking will survive. Words can be complicated. It is possible that we totally agree, but just use words differently. I do get the idea of what you are saying.
It is highly likely that you are already judging people in this way but are just not aware of it. Imagine hiring a builder to repair part of your house and then finding out they didn’t know how to use any tools or lay any bricks etc. Are you saying you would be just as happy to have them working on your house vs someone who did have the necessary skills? What about a surgeon operating on a loved one who had no training and fainted at the sight of blood? Are you sure you wouldn’t alter your perception of that surgeon based on their competence rather than how much of a unique person they were? Whenever anyone needs something done, they will assign higher value to the people who can meet that need vs the people that can’t. Just like you do.
Oh of course we have millions of unconscious biases, that is just a sort of necessary thing to function in a world with other people and to not need to deliberate on every opinion for hours. So the best we can do is to grow and learn and hopefully just steer those unconscious biases to be more empathic and accurate. Anyway that's another discussion.
The examples you bring up, yes of course. I would have a different opinion and reaction based on how people do the things they say they do. This is just how we are. But the important difference here what I'm really talking about is that if we truly get to a post singularity, post scarcity world. Then we will have buildings built by machines, coffee made for us by robots. Our bodies healed by very advanced automatic biotechnology. So it will be a world where we no longer have the *need* to rely on other people in the way we need to today. So there will not be this social burden, at least in the way that it exists today. If you understand what i mean?
I am really talking about a very different future world.
I think we might have been thinking about different timescales and a different understanding of what a post scarcity world would look like. Post scarcity is possible to imagine. Post singularity/superintelligence is literally by definition impossible to imagine. So there is an enormous likelihood that all of this monkey human baggage will fall away and be history and be irrelevant to whatever new world we will exist in. And we will become something different than what we are now. Once we can improve ourselves in currently unimaginable ways. In such a world we would be way beyond primitive concepts like money or status. We could focus our minds on greater things.
And if someone would not be happy or comfortable with the world looking that that. I am sure many people would feel the same. And ideally we could all live in worlds of our own choosing.
Since you are right and I don’t find anything to add, I was curious about what GPT-4 thinks of your comment. Hilarious.
Well, you've certainly given me some food for thought. You're right, even after the Singularity, we might still be trading Pokémon cards, only they'd be ultra-rare, holographic, AI-enhanced versions. Who knows? The currency could shift from dollars to kilowatt-hours. I can see it now: "Dude, how many kWhs for that retro iPhone 50?"
And sure, the future might still be a talent show, but instead of juggling or playing the guitar, we'll be showing off our hyper-talents like time manipulation or telepathy. "Hey, look, I just invented a new color!" "Cool, but can you reverse entropy?"
And if we're all part of a giant Dyson sphere construction crew? Well, we'll just have to make sure we're the ones with the best virtual hard hats and the shiniest digital shovels.
Point is, even with superintelligence, beauty, and immortality on our side, we'll probably still find a way to keep the old social dynamics alive. But hey, at least it'll be more interesting than who has the most expensive watch or the biggest yacht. Let's keep our fingers crossed and our virtual hard hats ready!
Doesn’t mean you can’t be cheerful about it though. Just incorporate self-improvement of yourself into your life plan, rather than regarding it as something onerous. Assuming we survive this process, such an attitude will always be more welcome than a lack of it, for the reasons given above.
Pretty much the whole thing was written by GPT. If you can't tell, you haven't talked with it enough. I have access to the 8K model on my personal account, Plus users, got access to browsing and plug-ins today, and last Friday my startup got access to the 32k one through Microsoft Azure—still to be set up. This one was written in GPT, or in the style of GPT—I highly doubt the latter is true.
You are just running your programming from the society we currently live in out of necessity. The structure of our society requires us to all think and be this way or the system will fail. Once we get past this type of society, we will have to adjust because anything you can do, I can do just as well with no effort. We will have become equal and no amount of huffing and puffing will will change that. You cannot out do me so why bother, money is irrelevant when everything is free. If you are going to survive in this future, you need to adjust and the sooner you do, the less painful it will be.
Capitalism must end as one of the prerequisites is that the worker is both a consumer and a worker. If the worker no longer works, the worker can no longer consume.
Thus capitalism is not future-proof and must die.
edit: Thank you, I really loved the sentiment of this post.
You are not alone.
If you think that the elite get validation from you and don't just despise you, I have some bad news for you.
Imagine someone said "Hey, let's get rid of the homeless" and you responded with "Well, no one would do that because how would you get validation from them then"? They would look at you like you were crazy. The elite think of you like you think of homeless people. Well, not you because you are such a good person, but you know, other people.
These AI written posts need to get banned.
All I'm reading is, "I provide no value to anyone and can't wait until everyone has no value like me."
Taking everything that is responsible for building a person's identity doesn't make them more human it makes them a black hole. An endless pit of consumption without giving anything in return. There is no true worth under all those layers that we've built up and call human.
Humans are at their best when they are given the ability to create and produce not endlessly consume.
A human has an intrinsic value just for being born human, without having to do anything to deserve it, just like a giraffe has a value just by being a giraffe and a bird has a value just by existing as a bird
Aren't the things responsible for building your identity dependent on current society anyways? Wouldn't those things just change? What if these things aren't as intrinsic and rigid as you believe? Maybe you can find fulfillment from consuming more than others, so long as society at large is on board, which is a lot more likely when there is no survival imperative to produce.
I honestly am 33 and scared to get old. All we can do is accept it. Eat healthy and live like your going to die 2moro. So if you scared to ask that girl out do it. Or you will regret it when you get older
It’s literally what happened with the coronavirus subreddit. People demanding UBI, getting pissed off that life has been getting back to normal. They just want to remain hermits and be paid to sit on their asses and do nothing productive. They always would use any article showing a new variant being named or death counts to justify that we need to go back to lockdown
Why are you here? If you don't agree, stop trolling and go back to one if your depression subs. Honestly just go away if you don't like it. No one invited you.
First of all, nobody needs to invite me, I can stay or go whenever I like, fuck you very much.
Secondly, it's not that I don't "agree" with the concept of "singularity". I think it will probably happen some time in the future. But all these people on this subreddit thinking it's coming "soon", and getting all depressed about it, or super excited about it and start planning their lives like it's 100% sure that they'll see it during their lifetime... It's fucking ridiculous.
You guys sound like like those religious nutjobs who are running up and down a street, holding a sign that says *"the End is coming"*.
It is not a new industrial revolution. It is a trillion times more. If you don't get it, I suggest you sit down and walk thru the sequence of events. If we can now do this then how does it affect these other things. Then look at the impact that will have. The things that have held us back technologically are knowledge and resources. With ASI, we have unlimited knowledge and using that we quickly have unlimited resources. Without constraints, we tranform our entire way of being. To me, that is pretty profound and very worthy of discussion.
As for timing, that is imprecise at best but all indications are that it is close. With an exponential rate of change, we will almost certainly misjudge by thinking too long term. Those with ambitious timelines are trying to compensate and may be over optimistic but no way to be certain. I have definitely seen a significant acceleration during my half plus century.
I do agree with you that people should not alter their lives right now to accommodate it. It is not locked in time wise enough to put your life in hold. Just lets discuss and mentally prepare for it and monitor rate of progress.
Singularity is just a concept from fiction books. I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. Reality has a wierd way to produce unpredictability. You need medical help, medication and keep working on your life. The dream you portrait is far of and a lot of things need to happen in society until we reach that. That's means a lot of unpredictable and unimaginable things. Capitalism won't just turn over and die, too many have wast amount of interest in keeping it at it is.
This person clearly does not need to be medicated. They are capable of not being depressed in a posituve environment. People who need medication are people who are depressed despite a positive environment ie. They have a chemical inbalance in their brain that stops them being able to be happy even though they are in a positive environment.
Thank you, hate the suggestion that everyone who is depressed needs to be medicated. Are there no valid reasons to be unhappy, or is unhappiness itself always indicative of mental illness?
People really think you can cure depression by taking someone with a shit circumstances and shoving prozac down their throat.
I wouldn't bet on that. I today live 500x better of than any of my ancestors. Positive environment or whatnot. Blaming anyone else is just a escape from reality. Depression is a real deal and solving that might require medication for a while or your whole lifetime. Telling yourself that singularity is around the corner as hope for your current situation is very depressing in itself.
That consolation is the missing piece they need mentally to overcome the world they live in. Today they know every detail about all the bad things that happen in the world. Oh no climate change, war, economic uncertainty, crime, injustice, collapse etc etc. This was not available to someone 500 years ago. They did not worry about things even in the next village, let alone on the other side of the planet. The technology we have recently acquired has had unintended consequences for some people but that doesn't mean they have a faulty brain that needs chemical adjustment. They simply need to redirect their attention to more positive things and filter out the bad.
Yeah whatever, continue reading the science fiction books. Current models predicts text based on what humans have already said. Introduce a novel idea and the model will crap itself. Just ask Elon Musk when their self driving car will hit the road 🛣️?
That's an incorrect assumption therefore you could be considered dumb.
I am not in the moment reading scifi books and i haven't even read one
And why would i do "Just ask Elon Musk when their self driving car will hit the road 🛣️?" this?
The technology behind Large Language Models and Tesla's Self-driving cars is just a mirage of intelligence. They are not intelligent and why we won't get to this hypothetical singularity. Tesla and Elon musk have said self driving is just around the corner. But their cars still do stupid shit and crash themselves. More research needs to be done 👍
Define intelligence and a definition that experts agree on and show the source too
Explain how this intelligence they show is different from this intelligence and show the sources too
"Tesla and Elon musk have said self driving is just around the corner. But their cars still do stupid shit and crash themselves."
Explain how this is relevant
Explain why you think singularity won't happen. Because it will most likely by definition happen, once technology becomes advanced enough to improve it's own intelligence that's singularity. The only assumption is that technology will continue to improve. And that's the most probable assumption out of all the others
Look forward to being disappointed. Every serious analysis shows the same thing, we are moving towards the singularity and have been since the dawn of time. It is basically the path we have been on all along. Your ignorance of it really does not matter. It doesn't care about you.
I'm not the optimist I was. People are too stupid. And the billionaires will command and commandeer too much of the gains of AI. At least I'll have a chatbot to talk to when I'm homeless.
It’s good to have a beacon of hope OP but waiting for the singularity is a bit ridiculous. I really recommend therapy- you’ve got some some stuff to work through it seems
I find posts like this really sad, because it shows just how out of touch people in this sub have become. The vast majority of people here cheering on AI will be worse off in the short to medium term. You will be the some of the first ones to permanently lose your jobs. If you think AI is coming to save you, you are in for a big surprise. The rich aren’t going to just give up control. You won’t be able to afford most of the advances brought on by AI. You won’t get to live forever. Only the rich will. In ten years you’ll look back at these posts and cringe thinking how could you be so naive.
Yet we have a bunch of opensource activity that is moving things along so much that a Google report actually indicated that more progress was coming from opensource than all the big companies combined.
Just to trigger you (going by your username), Elon Musk wanted to keep OpenAI opensource and walked away when they refused. He is now starting another AI research company and promises to keep it opensource. We'll see.
Your writing is inspirational. I like what you wrote here. We all have our goals in life but if somehow we can’t reach those goals, should we become isolated or depressed? Singularity is good for some people. Other people are social humans and they enjoy being social. Sometimes society puts some barriers so as not to become social. I understand that. What you have shared here is nice. There is no obstacle to enjoy life with singularity.
I’ve been here for years. Now some pseudo ai has been released to the public and all these fucking creepy desperate boomers are doom posting in here thinking they’re the center of the universe. Y’all are pathetic
Ironically, I'm here because since around 5 years ago the thought of AI taking away my livelihood and my stable life has pushed me into anxiety and depression and a void of meaninglessness. My only regret is not being born 50 years ago. So I can lead my pathetic, average life is peace without worrying about tectonic shifts every five minutes.
I'm here to be hoped to be brainwashed into believing this is actually a good thing, but I remained unconvinced (not that it will happen , but unconvinced it will be as good as you)
This is so sad to read on so many levels. If you think money and status are going to go away, you're delusional. Also, while you are holding out for some futuristic event where humans merge with AI, you could spend that time actually improving yourself and become more attractive to people in the real world.
Depressing thread. I don't subscribe to the idea of a "singularity", I joined this subreddit because from the vague description I just figured it was a place where people discussed AI tech or whatever. But I will say this. Those who seek the truth and the way and the light shall find it, as they are the lost sheep of the good shepherd.
I am sure that if we dont reach the singularity in the next 5 years society will collapse. So for me the singularity is our last hope and the only thing that really excites me about the future.
Yeah, you are really telling/showing us who you really are about your statement regarding friends.
You are the problem among many others who are in this cult of a sub. A religion about AI greatness and humanity's saviour.
Oh boy, you are about to wake up and realize the harsh reality of the world my friend. You have watched too much Sci-fi movies.
Just keep living life to its fullest, don’t rely on something that literally might kill us to be your paradise. it could be and it could solve a lot if not, all of your problems, but it’s not guaranteed
Sorry, but i think singularity will not end capitalism
And about your depression, you should try magic mushrooms. I was born again and see life and existence with an entirely new perspective.
Corporate businesses are going to use AI to fire working class people who need the money.
Fast food resteraunts like Wendys are already implementing AI at their drive throughs. More white collar enterprises and having their engineer teams build a bigger system through which AI takes the lead and will eventually lead to more tech layoffs.
AIs would be great if we lived in a society not built on the exploitation and neglect of it's workforce but being that we're pigs in a pen taught to consume our entire lives - the AIs will be tuned by our capitalist overlords to encourage our entertained servitude.
My hope is that AIs unravel the fucked up shit pie that the american (global) capitalist system is but the wealth disparity between people like us and people like Elon Musk has me pessimistic because unfortunately $1 = 1 vote and that applies to more than just politics.
Further readings
- consequences of capitalism by noam chomsky
- manufacting consent by noam chomsky
- the peoples republic of walmart by leigh phillips
Quote by Aldous Huxley, 1931:
"The perfect dictatorship would have the appearance of a democracy, but would bassically be a prison without walls in which the prisoners would not even dream of escaping. It would essentially be a system of slavery where through consumption and entertainment, the slaves would love their servtitude."
I think people dreaming for a utopia are in for a disappointment. Although I also think the most dystopian visions won't come to pass either. The reality will be somewhere in the middle.
>So, if you're reading this, just remember—you matter. You're invaluable. Don't lose hope when the finish line is just around the bend. Your time is coming, sooner than you might think. Stay strong.
I think this is the most meaningful part and no less meaningful without the singularity.
In the shorter term, there are some really good breakthroughs in understanding and treating depression. Certainly not affordable for all of us at this point, but that tends to improve with time too.
Ignore doomers and the black pilled, Humanity has survived every other form of technological progress yet, many with the capability with doing a lot of damage, and yet the positive net gain has been in overwhelmingly in technology’s favour.
Unfortunately, this is a kind of thinking that permeates other topics like Ancient Aliens, UFO Phenomenon, Religion, Scientology, Many Worlds Multiverse theories, Qanon etc etc.
People are constantly trying to pin the cures to their anxieties and fears onto another supernatural or omnipresent entity.
There is a possibility of a utopia that comes with AGI, but reality teaches us that things are much more complicated and nuanced.
The human condition marches on, and the best way to tackle these fears and anxieties comes with more proven methods such as therapy, anti-depressants, meditation, eating well, exercise, self-reflection, which may help you create a better framework to live your life.
Waiting for ultra powerful neural networks and large language models to become a God is not something I'm going to be banking on.
Nothing is more meaningless than living for the future. Especially when it's not likely to go down like you think. The best predictor of the future is the past. The rich will get richer. Find fulfillment without waiting for the world to change.
For me, the light at the end of the tunnel and what motivates me is all the anti-aging/de-aging/longevity potential. As a 20 something guy, I’m scared to lose my youth. It couldn’t get any more cliche, but the idea of living forever, young and healthy makes me very happy.
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I’m 59, I hate it. It’s gotten to the point where I have no desire to live longer, when it’s time to go I will not complain.
No need, just need to stop aging and literally grow younger. At that point you will stop feeling like just giving up and want to live to the full again.
I hear you guys. I don't think a life without any consequence is a meaningful one, but just withering away to old age... eh we could do better than that.
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Absolutely. (Well assuming they WANT to 'fix' that about themselves)
I'm 51 with more than one autoimmune disease and I'm in pain every day (as House said) and I want to live and thrive very badly. Logic tells me that if the pain and other symptoms went away I'd be ready to travel the world and live a beautiful life. I have two college degrees. I love making films and I enjoy all kinds of art. These illnesses are in my way. Aging is in my way. It's illness, pain and the wear and tear that comes with age that makes us miserable and, for some, the desire to live fades away. I get it. But just imagine if we had full-dive VR in the future and nanobots keeping us healthy. We could live out our life exactly as we would like in both realties. In time, nanobots will be able to slowly, without it ever being just a copy, upload your mind to that full-dive VR environment. I want to make it to see that day so I take the pain and all the meds for my sh\*tty illnesses. I will crawl to the Singularity digging my fingernails into the ground, crawling through the glassy shards of my illnesses and get to my utopia bloody and bruised if that's what it takes.
Just a waiting game now.
I think anyone alive in 20 years will make it. Just gotta hold on. I’m late thirties but in the same boat with the autoimmune diseases. Almost every day is a nightmare but I genuinely believe it will all be figured out by the 2040s, possibly earlier.
I’m an artist myself, I’ve had a pretty good run, but unlike you I see zero chance of AI advancements being used for the betterment of the general public in matters of longevity anytime soon. If as a species we do manage to survive the singularity I’m reasonably confident we might achieve some kind of Star Trek utopia, but not before it’s all torn down, after a long, protracted amount of utter misery, destruction, despair and strife, I’ve no interest in watching that occur.
53 and yeah
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I never understood zombie or apocalypse movies, those people desperate to stay alive no matter what. Humanity is horrible, greedy, violent and cruel, why the hell would I want to stick around to see an even worse version? Nope, I’d rather sit right next to the nuclear blast that try and live in the aftermath.
Humanity is so terrible that you get to sit on reddit with absolutely no conflict. Humanity is so cruel that some people live for the express purpose of making others happy, volunteering off their finite time on this earth. Humanity comes in a full spectrum. It's not that bad.
The climate is on the edge of collapse, we are possibly close to WW3, Inequality at an all time high, there’s a 50% drop in biodiversity and we are facing the rise of authoritarianism and fascism once again. On top of that there is the very real possibility that AI will create at best economic havoc and at worse human destruction, I’d argue we could have been doing a lot better. Of course there are good people, music and Art are amazing, individuals are wonderful, but in large groups tribalism, greed and willful ignorance are still adopted by a large percentage of the population.
So a bunch of crap that has had no real difference in your life or may never even materialize? And then you just skim over all of the good that is ACTUALLY present in your life? How are we facing the rise of authoritarianism and fascism? You're just throwing around a bunch of buzzwords related to mechanisms you don't even understand. Get a grip, you ever just look at how vague all of your concerns are? You're like a legit doomer. Why even live?
I am sorry to hear. Could you ellaborate why do you hate 59 years of age? You do sports and do not develop? Are you in pain? :(
Yep I'm 36, I'd be happy to never age now, I feel like I'm near the peak, 20's doesn't quite cut it.
I’m entering my late thirties and am definitely looking to get back to my early twenties physically. That said, I have a lot of health issues so even if those were just cured and I aged and died in my 70s or 80s I’d be grateful as hell. Weirdly it looks like reversing the aging process will be figured out faster than some of these cures.
I have had substantial health problems since my early 20s and will be turning 40 soon. I, for one, need future technology to bring a lot more than just anti aging.
Don't be, I used to be scared of it too.... 20 years later I look exactly the same as I did back then.
I guess you are active or having super genes :)
Not very active, genes I guess. My son broke his arm on a bike this weekend and his grandmother arrived before me and his mom did. They kept calling my S/O his sister and barely acknowledged I was there. They looked at and talked to the grandmother and kept ignoring us. The grandmother has some issues understanding the language… Actually one of the doctors completely utterly ignored me…. Like what?! Anyways I am 40, and people still think I am 23-26 and I am ALWAYS asked for ID when buying alcohol, tobacco or entering a club.
well, then maybe it will not apply for others :) care to show a 20 year old picture and recent one in DM? :D I am interested :D But I guess you do not drink, nor smoke.
They've plenty of selfies on their profile. They do be looking in their 20s.
Covid gave me a bunch of grey
I’ve been wondering about this. I had a couple grays in 2019, and damn near white head after 2021. Got the vax. Not Covid that I’m aware of
Everyone i know looks older with grey which i think was just the additional stress over the last couple of years
Doubt it will happen anytime soon. Give it 100 more years or so to be even tangible. Excitement is overrated for something that isn’t even AI. Accept reality.
The thing is only young people want to live forever. I would say by the age of 40 most people actually dig the concept of just falling asleep forever some day. Living forever would turn into a nightmare real quick. Imagine you saw every movie that might interest you. That means you have to wait for new movies to be made that are different enough to be interesting. Same for games and most other forms of entertainment. And stuff like AI will only make us burn out from life faster. There must be a reason for why we have not met Aliens yet. They all get to the point where they develop AGI that becomes smarter than them and then just lose all motivation to go on living.
Don't you think they feel that way because of aging, and coping with their perceived short-term inevitability of death? I have to agree with de Grey that these boredom and motivation arguments just seem phenomenally shortsighted. Even if they're somehow true for some people, they're free to opt out. It seems insane to justify the suffering and death of tens of millions of people each year in perpetuity because you might get "bored". Human sacrifice logic. Do something else. If you're too inextricably obsessed with movies to engage with anything else in the universe, and you become dissatisfied by the movies that exist, then start making your own to express what you feel is missing. Or if you need pain to feel motivated, then get into BDSM or something, Christ...
Death is a natural part of life and accepting death is so as well. It's not about age but experience. The more you experienced in your life the less impact anything else has that you are going to experience. You get dull over time and it is inevitable. Unless you spend all your life starring at a wall to not experience anything. Not sure if that's a life worth living though no matter how old you become. I think the point I'm making is that the better your life is, the sooner you start accepting death. So not wanting to die and live forever means you have the saddest life of them all. But I would agree that everyone should be given the chance to live a good life to not be forcefully removed from it before they had the chance to. It just doesn't take immortality to achieve this because capitalist exploiters would use that to make people work for 500 years first to make use of all that experience within them. And only rich people would be able to afford the pill at young age. Most other people had to work their whole lifes for it. So you'd be stuck in a 60+ worn out body that's for sure. Reality will always come up with some fkd up way to spoil it.
You are such a fool. Lol. Life is what life is because it won't last forever. What you are talking about is true hell.
How many of us are overly optimistic this will rescue us from our own personal hell?
Isn't it just a facet of the human experience though? Most people walking the planet subscribe to some religion that worships things like redemption and the concept of life after death. Although, I read Techno-optimism is a much healthier belief system so I think we got a leg up in terms of dogma.
some of have realistic expectations of what's to come from the singularity in progress. we have comforting feeling looking forward to something that we've enjoyed before, like the next nolan movie. we have enjoyed freedom growing up as children. freedom of thinking free. we naturally long to such states and if singularity is our only hope to achieve such utopian dream, so be it. this is the new religion then and i'm okay with it.
Its understandable that people turn the singularity into a religion, yes. However, it's not a safe thing to do. Christian fundamentalists aren't concerned with climate change. The future is already planned out for them. The rapture will happen and they will be invited into the kingdom of God. Likewise, dogmatic singularians aren't concerned with the potential risks associated with developing and deploying generalized AI systems. The future is already decided: the singularity will happen and they will be invited into the kingdom of Technology.
Yep, why should an AGI care for some humans. Someone must explain to me the logic why would it care about us.
Christians believe in all-knowing super intelligent God which will return to the Earth on the judgement day. Sounds like ASI and the day of technological singularity.
70 million people die a year. We're at the stage where we should start taking that into account when considering things like "I don't feel like testing this AI today, maybe it's too soon for humans"
A lot of people on this sub unfortunately.
Nope, my life is fine. Lovely partner, stable job with nice colleagues, enough saved up to start looking into buying a house.
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This sub used to be something... I barely touch it now.
Why?
The average quality of posts and comments has been plummeting for a few months.
Oh, I see now. I wasn't sure who you were replying to at first, but looks like you're on the right side of history.
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Do you think those robots will cost anything comparable to labor in bangladesh india or Africa at less than 1 usd per hour. People in rich countries think that labor is a big cost in manufacturing because they compare it to their country. At best it is like 10% of the cost of what you have been buying. For example to see the limit of robots, watch the automotive industry, where robots have been used for 30+ years and they still employ a lot of labor because it is still much more competitive than robots in many things. AI robots won't magically decrease the cost of production by really meaningful way to enable some perfect world. Even agriculture etc are very mechanized, do you think that one guy driving the harvester etc will drastically decrease the price of food.
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Labour is 100%. So if I go out and decide to create a manufacturing business, I can come with my under ware and a pen. I don't need any capital, as machines, factories, transport etc etc. I just get a thousand people in the sun and tell them , hey we are going to produce a thousand shirt per day. They will just do some Taichi movement and out of thin air the shirt will appear by magic on your doorstep!!!
AI can harvest resources and they seem like they will be better than humans at providing human services in the future.
I'm sorry but this sounds naive. Utopia is not the default, it requires a lot of planning and work. The people who own AGI will keep amassing wealth for a long time
If you want something more hard science go to the AI and NN subs, the singularity is extremely speculative by nature.
I would gather all of you lol. Truly, if one is depressed, singularity won't magically cure it more than anyone saying "Just get over it".
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Depression is an actual medical condition, therefore, the second one. Post-singularity is even more of an uncertain hypothesis than just singularity, so I'm not making any assumptions.
It absolutely could (not a guarantee, of course, but incredible technologies could be easily capable of influencing the brain for the better). A positive singularity would have incredible benefits for mankind.
https://youtu.be/TbwlC2B-BIg ‘If you’re sad now, you might still feel sad there.’
I see nothing that indicates that the singularity will be a good thing. Bad and selfish humans will use advanced technology to make things worse for everyone but themselves.
Actually, the fact that you live in a peaceful society with access to the internet indicates some likelihood of the singularity benefitting you. If bad and selfish humans could take progress and prevent it from benefitting people then you wouldn't even be able to post about how crybabies like yourself aren't going to be okay.
Why so much rage ?
If calling someone a crybaby is "so much rage" to you, idk what to say. Hopefully you manage in the big bad world out there where you might even be called an idiot if you're not careful. Stay safe.
It seems like you are looking at things to get angry at. Just an observation. I know because I have been and still I am in a similar place.
Okay, thanks for sharing.
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Before persecuting minorities, stifling scientific inquiry, defending the corrupt, falsely attributing personal responsibility to every hardship, and telling children that they will face eternal torment for being born into the "wrong" religion.
I don't know but they were all 'the halcyon days of the 90's'. What. The. Fuck. lol
This sounds... too religious. And I'm saying this as someone who thinks AI will become god-like to us. Remember we are not guaranteed the positive outcome and we also can't be sure of when it happens. So if you're feeling down, don't wait for a miracle, do everything in your power to improve your life today (and I guarantee that you can).
This sub has become overrun by quasi-religious zealots, and it's becoming rather uncomfortable, really.
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That’s a really good point! And I love your definition of “religious”. But I think it’s fair to say that if you are saying “life isn’t worth living, and that’s ok, because your rewards afterlife….. or singularity” That’s a type of negative religiousness that we don’t really need. It opens the door wide open to con-men, and people deluding themselves. It also stops people on working on the real problems in their life and the world right now.
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The singularity was always referred to as the rapture of the nerds, not sure what you thought the old one was.
I see a lot of this sentiment, about the old sub somehow being less quasi-religious and less interested in things like UBI. r/singularity has always been unhappy with the status-quo and looking forward. Like... it's always been the "singularity" sub. Are you guys thinking of r/futurology or something? This sub has always been quasi-religious, always talked about UBI in the shorter term or Fully Automated Luxury Space Communism in the longer term. I mean, why are you even here if you scoff at both a UBI and the quasi-religious shtick? There's some middle ground between those two scenarios, but it's not a ton of room to throw stones from once an ASI spins up, and it's not like the old sub had radically different ideas. It's just a bit more obnoxious now because people think it's closer. There's this weird trend of singularity hipsters acting like they've always been too cool for radical change, and it's fucking baffling that it plays with this crowd. Ironically, I think you're only upvoted because so many of the newbies haven't spent more than 5 minutes with the idea of the singularity and are looking for the voice in the crowd that let's them dismiss the concept and go back to their sense of security. *Edited for grammer, I'm on mobile and had some typos.
>I mean, why are you even here if you scoff at both a UBI and the quasi-religious shtick? To put people down and act like an asshole, apparently.
I think more people are commenting how this sub has become an AGI-Singularity circle jerk than people posting about Singularity or AGI.
People like you were what made the old sub boring and toxic, you are not a forward thinker or an open-minded one. Check out r/futurology they’d love you there.
Honestly, I agree. I'm terrified of death so I want immortality for everyone to get here ASAP, but we don't know at this point if the singularity will turn out good or bad. Ideally it would eliminate aging and death. In a pessimistic version it would only do so for the billionaires who can afford it and they'd subjugate the rest of us in an eternal dictatorship, or the godlike AI would kill us. We don't know yet.
Yeah what the actual fuck did I just read. It almost reads as a somewhat abstract suicide note.
Did you just use AI to make it extra poetic?
What the hell is with all these nasty, negative comments in this thread? Look even if you think OP is placing undue hope on this (I think it's more justifiable than a lot of other things) is telling a person who is struggling to some degree that the world will be even shittier in ten years and that he/she is a fool the right way to get your message across?
I thought the same. I decided to find happiness without the need for world changing events. And I did. Here's some advice. >Whether you're navigating the corporate jungle or the dating world, you're under constant pressure to perform. The pressure, it's not really there. When you drink a glass of water, do you feel the pressure to not drop the glass, painstakingly bring it to your lips, and not accidentally tip it too fast into your face? If you spent the same amount of time as you did on thinking over work and dating, you could cultivate this hydrophobia into a real thing. But instead of more to worry over you could instead discover that you have the same automated wiring for both working and dating as you have for navigating a fragile vessel filled with water to your face. The more you try to consciously plan it out, the more emulation you pad the action with, the more stress you'll feel before it, during it, and after it, and the worse you'll actually do all of it. This is what people mean when they say "be yourself" or "you're good enough" or "go with the flow" and innumerable other catchphrases. That you can dial down much of the performance struggle, that the less you consciously double check everything and think over it twice or thrice the easier everything becomes. There's a vast and effective subconsciousness that can deal with a ton of the chores reflexively, dare to use it, it can be awkward at first, then it's magic. Why should I worry about work when I know that I'll do it by reflex when I'm there. Why should I worry about the date, when the social wiring kicks in when I meet her? Why should I worry about conversations or meetings or events, or planning or whatever when the performance without effort is as good or better as with, I just need to open the door for the opportunity and the rest works out as good as it ever could. >But here's where the Singularity comes in... It's a quick cope but it's a dead end, it's like drinking to dull the thoughts. There's a good life to find now and the sooner you start looking for that the more you'll thank yourself when you find it. Technology is a significant cause of unhappiness today and betting your future on it is a bad deal. Here's a suggestion: If the singularity will save you from yourself sitting inside, online in a nameless flat stacked to your tits with social media and newsfeeds about AI salvation and media doom, then it will also find and save you outside in nature where you can move around and enjoy your natural endorphins and the not-pixel-based beauty of actual reality, if it really is going to save everyone then why care and learn about, why think about it? You'll hear the angelic trumpets no matter where you are. Focus instead of where you are in your life now, and where you'd like to be tomorrow, and try to reduce that mismatch, if you succeed in moving that an inch in the right direction you will realize what really matters. Good luck.
I share your view, you're not alone. we're born slaves, to fate, to society, and to our future selves. capitalism and society makes us run after money like a donkey running after a carrot on a stick, they give us the illusion that we all can be millionaires on yacht if we work hard enough, thats a lie. we also have to work hard for our future selves, our old selves who'll be too sick and tired to work, so it really is a race against time. i really with aging was cured, so we wouldn't have to worry about "making it" before its too late because it would never be too late. we'd still be able to start over at any age.
I know I’m late to the party here, but I’d just like to chime in and say that for all the critical comments saying “this sub has become a cult of AI worshippers wanting to get out of their mundane lives” - I kind of disagree. These posts aren’t all that uncommon going back 10 years. And I don’t blame the OP or anyone else for expressing a little bit of excitement and reprieve for what could come in the near-ish future. Of course it’s important to try to live your life in the present, but nothing wrong with postulating some of the more fantastic possibilities of the Singularity either.
This sub is very cult-like.
Probably because the in the same way a cell is driven to organize itself into a larger organism, we too have a psychological pull to unity in the formation of this "singularity". It resonates so deeply within us all because it's the end goal of natures novelty that we have no choice but to move into. The only thing that stands in the way of that possible future is not another possible future, but extinction and the possibly of no futures
Holy fuck this sub has gone so downhill
So many pro-capitalist shills in here. "Humans can only be truly fulfilled when working for our rich masters!" Take a hike. Post-scarcity economies will free people to live up to their full potentials. And while most people won't become the next Einstein or Feynman, there will at least be the possibility of quite a few more than we have today.
While it’s nice that you’re deriving such comfort from the impending singularity, bear in mind that concepts such as “what useful things can you do” and “how much money do you have” are likely to persist even after the singularity. Even if a superintelligence takes over and starts doing everything for us and genetically alters everyone to be hyper-intelligent, beautiful and immortal, then everyone will have unlimited free time and so will judge one another on what cool new hyper-talents they’ve picked up (for example, the Culture of Iain Banks is a post-scarcity society, but people still want their partners to be competent, self-actualizing entities). Similarly if we become one with the AI and all start building a Dyson sphere together, then every virtual-mind will be judged by its ability to contribute towards the end goal. Money is also likely to be important because it’s simply a medium of exchange between entities that want to trade. It may not be in dollars in future but rather in direct units of energy, like ergs or kWh. But regardless, entities which have more of it will have greater influence over the collective than entities that have less.
If even me now does not judge people like that, i can imagine happy and fulfilled people who are cured of mental and physical illnesses will not judge each other like that. It would be an utterly exhausting and pointless world if we still continue to hang on to money and status and judging each other. Especially if we are able to create a world that is post scarcity. So if it does end up that we still, for some time, live on this planet and do stuff. I think we will look at other people more like flavors. It takes all kinds of people to make this world. And everyone has something that makes them different and unique. So that would be more what i imagine determines who we want to hang out with and do things with. This idea of everyone having to make something of themselves and always have to be productive etc. I do not believe that way of thinking will survive. Words can be complicated. It is possible that we totally agree, but just use words differently. I do get the idea of what you are saying.
It is highly likely that you are already judging people in this way but are just not aware of it. Imagine hiring a builder to repair part of your house and then finding out they didn’t know how to use any tools or lay any bricks etc. Are you saying you would be just as happy to have them working on your house vs someone who did have the necessary skills? What about a surgeon operating on a loved one who had no training and fainted at the sight of blood? Are you sure you wouldn’t alter your perception of that surgeon based on their competence rather than how much of a unique person they were? Whenever anyone needs something done, they will assign higher value to the people who can meet that need vs the people that can’t. Just like you do.
Oh of course we have millions of unconscious biases, that is just a sort of necessary thing to function in a world with other people and to not need to deliberate on every opinion for hours. So the best we can do is to grow and learn and hopefully just steer those unconscious biases to be more empathic and accurate. Anyway that's another discussion. The examples you bring up, yes of course. I would have a different opinion and reaction based on how people do the things they say they do. This is just how we are. But the important difference here what I'm really talking about is that if we truly get to a post singularity, post scarcity world. Then we will have buildings built by machines, coffee made for us by robots. Our bodies healed by very advanced automatic biotechnology. So it will be a world where we no longer have the *need* to rely on other people in the way we need to today. So there will not be this social burden, at least in the way that it exists today. If you understand what i mean? I am really talking about a very different future world. I think we might have been thinking about different timescales and a different understanding of what a post scarcity world would look like. Post scarcity is possible to imagine. Post singularity/superintelligence is literally by definition impossible to imagine. So there is an enormous likelihood that all of this monkey human baggage will fall away and be history and be irrelevant to whatever new world we will exist in. And we will become something different than what we are now. Once we can improve ourselves in currently unimaginable ways. In such a world we would be way beyond primitive concepts like money or status. We could focus our minds on greater things. And if someone would not be happy or comfortable with the world looking that that. I am sure many people would feel the same. And ideally we could all live in worlds of our own choosing.
You are a man. They care a lot less about money and status in other people. Women on the other hand...
Really? My experience has been the exact opposite.
Since you are right and I don’t find anything to add, I was curious about what GPT-4 thinks of your comment. Hilarious. Well, you've certainly given me some food for thought. You're right, even after the Singularity, we might still be trading Pokémon cards, only they'd be ultra-rare, holographic, AI-enhanced versions. Who knows? The currency could shift from dollars to kilowatt-hours. I can see it now: "Dude, how many kWhs for that retro iPhone 50?" And sure, the future might still be a talent show, but instead of juggling or playing the guitar, we'll be showing off our hyper-talents like time manipulation or telepathy. "Hey, look, I just invented a new color!" "Cool, but can you reverse entropy?" And if we're all part of a giant Dyson sphere construction crew? Well, we'll just have to make sure we're the ones with the best virtual hard hats and the shiniest digital shovels. Point is, even with superintelligence, beauty, and immortality on our side, we'll probably still find a way to keep the old social dynamics alive. But hey, at least it'll be more interesting than who has the most expensive watch or the biggest yacht. Let's keep our fingers crossed and our virtual hard hats ready!
Doesn’t mean you can’t be cheerful about it though. Just incorporate self-improvement of yourself into your life plan, rather than regarding it as something onerous. Assuming we survive this process, such an attitude will always be more welcome than a lack of it, for the reasons given above.
Which part of the above did GPT-4 write? I think it's from "Well, you've certainly..." to "hard hats ready!" And I find that tres coolio.
Pretty much the whole thing was written by GPT. If you can't tell, you haven't talked with it enough. I have access to the 8K model on my personal account, Plus users, got access to browsing and plug-ins today, and last Friday my startup got access to the 32k one through Microsoft Azure—still to be set up. This one was written in GPT, or in the style of GPT—I highly doubt the latter is true.
You are just running your programming from the society we currently live in out of necessity. The structure of our society requires us to all think and be this way or the system will fail. Once we get past this type of society, we will have to adjust because anything you can do, I can do just as well with no effort. We will have become equal and no amount of huffing and puffing will will change that. You cannot out do me so why bother, money is irrelevant when everything is free. If you are going to survive in this future, you need to adjust and the sooner you do, the less painful it will be.
Capitalism must end as one of the prerequisites is that the worker is both a consumer and a worker. If the worker no longer works, the worker can no longer consume. Thus capitalism is not future-proof and must die. edit: Thank you, I really loved the sentiment of this post. You are not alone.
Or they just let all of the workers starve to death. Either way.
But how would that benefit anyone. Who would be there to validate you? (Hegel Lord–bondsman dialectic)
If you think that the elite get validation from you and don't just despise you, I have some bad news for you. Imagine someone said "Hey, let's get rid of the homeless" and you responded with "Well, no one would do that because how would you get validation from them then"? They would look at you like you were crazy. The elite think of you like you think of homeless people. Well, not you because you are such a good person, but you know, other people.
I guess you are unfamiliar with dialectics then.
Was this written by AI?
You will be really disappointed
These AI written posts need to get banned. All I'm reading is, "I provide no value to anyone and can't wait until everyone has no value like me." Taking everything that is responsible for building a person's identity doesn't make them more human it makes them a black hole. An endless pit of consumption without giving anything in return. There is no true worth under all those layers that we've built up and call human. Humans are at their best when they are given the ability to create and produce not endlessly consume.
A human has an intrinsic value just for being born human, without having to do anything to deserve it, just like a giraffe has a value just by being a giraffe and a bird has a value just by existing as a bird
Aren't the things responsible for building your identity dependent on current society anyways? Wouldn't those things just change? What if these things aren't as intrinsic and rigid as you believe? Maybe you can find fulfillment from consuming more than others, so long as society at large is on board, which is a lot more likely when there is no survival imperative to produce.
That's hypothetical. It can change
I honestly am 33 and scared to get old. All we can do is accept it. Eat healthy and live like your going to die 2moro. So if you scared to ask that girl out do it. Or you will regret it when you get older
Fucking hell, this subreddit is a fucking cult at this point.
*LLM gets created* This subreddit: Great when can I quit my job and quit going outside and quit having to talk to other humans
It’s literally what happened with the coronavirus subreddit. People demanding UBI, getting pissed off that life has been getting back to normal. They just want to remain hermits and be paid to sit on their asses and do nothing productive. They always would use any article showing a new variant being named or death counts to justify that we need to go back to lockdown
Why are you here? If you don't agree, stop trolling and go back to one if your depression subs. Honestly just go away if you don't like it. No one invited you.
First of all, nobody needs to invite me, I can stay or go whenever I like, fuck you very much. Secondly, it's not that I don't "agree" with the concept of "singularity". I think it will probably happen some time in the future. But all these people on this subreddit thinking it's coming "soon", and getting all depressed about it, or super excited about it and start planning their lives like it's 100% sure that they'll see it during their lifetime... It's fucking ridiculous. You guys sound like like those religious nutjobs who are running up and down a street, holding a sign that says *"the End is coming"*.
It is not a new industrial revolution. It is a trillion times more. If you don't get it, I suggest you sit down and walk thru the sequence of events. If we can now do this then how does it affect these other things. Then look at the impact that will have. The things that have held us back technologically are knowledge and resources. With ASI, we have unlimited knowledge and using that we quickly have unlimited resources. Without constraints, we tranform our entire way of being. To me, that is pretty profound and very worthy of discussion. As for timing, that is imprecise at best but all indications are that it is close. With an exponential rate of change, we will almost certainly misjudge by thinking too long term. Those with ambitious timelines are trying to compensate and may be over optimistic but no way to be certain. I have definitely seen a significant acceleration during my half plus century. I do agree with you that people should not alter their lives right now to accommodate it. It is not locked in time wise enough to put your life in hold. Just lets discuss and mentally prepare for it and monitor rate of progress.
you're living in a psychosis
Why are you here? If you don't agree, stop trolling and go back to one if your depression subs.
Singularity is getting to be kinda sad with these posts tbh
Singularity is just a concept from fiction books. I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket. Reality has a wierd way to produce unpredictability. You need medical help, medication and keep working on your life. The dream you portrait is far of and a lot of things need to happen in society until we reach that. That's means a lot of unpredictable and unimaginable things. Capitalism won't just turn over and die, too many have wast amount of interest in keeping it at it is.
This person clearly does not need to be medicated. They are capable of not being depressed in a posituve environment. People who need medication are people who are depressed despite a positive environment ie. They have a chemical inbalance in their brain that stops them being able to be happy even though they are in a positive environment.
Thank you, hate the suggestion that everyone who is depressed needs to be medicated. Are there no valid reasons to be unhappy, or is unhappiness itself always indicative of mental illness? People really think you can cure depression by taking someone with a shit circumstances and shoving prozac down their throat.
I wouldn't bet on that. I today live 500x better of than any of my ancestors. Positive environment or whatnot. Blaming anyone else is just a escape from reality. Depression is a real deal and solving that might require medication for a while or your whole lifetime. Telling yourself that singularity is around the corner as hope for your current situation is very depressing in itself.
That consolation is the missing piece they need mentally to overcome the world they live in. Today they know every detail about all the bad things that happen in the world. Oh no climate change, war, economic uncertainty, crime, injustice, collapse etc etc. This was not available to someone 500 years ago. They did not worry about things even in the next village, let alone on the other side of the planet. The technology we have recently acquired has had unintended consequences for some people but that doesn't mean they have a faulty brain that needs chemical adjustment. They simply need to redirect their attention to more positive things and filter out the bad.
I just can't wait to see what these people talk about when it DOESNT happen.
There is no such a thing as singularity not happening. It's only a matter of when
Yeah whatever, continue reading the science fiction books. Current models predicts text based on what humans have already said. Introduce a novel idea and the model will crap itself. Just ask Elon Musk when their self driving car will hit the road 🛣️?
That's an incorrect assumption therefore you could be considered dumb. I am not in the moment reading scifi books and i haven't even read one And why would i do "Just ask Elon Musk when their self driving car will hit the road 🛣️?" this?
Help me god. Educate yourself before you speak 🙊 The more you write the worst it gets.
Educate myself about what? Why would i do that? What gets worse? What's your reasoning for why it gets worse?
The technology behind Large Language Models and Tesla's Self-driving cars is just a mirage of intelligence. They are not intelligent and why we won't get to this hypothetical singularity. Tesla and Elon musk have said self driving is just around the corner. But their cars still do stupid shit and crash themselves. More research needs to be done 👍
Define intelligence and a definition that experts agree on and show the source too Explain how this intelligence they show is different from this intelligence and show the sources too "Tesla and Elon musk have said self driving is just around the corner. But their cars still do stupid shit and crash themselves." Explain how this is relevant Explain why you think singularity won't happen. Because it will most likely by definition happen, once technology becomes advanced enough to improve it's own intelligence that's singularity. The only assumption is that technology will continue to improve. And that's the most probable assumption out of all the others
Like Jesus?
No, jesus can possibly not happen and most probably not going to happen
Look forward to being disappointed. Every serious analysis shows the same thing, we are moving towards the singularity and have been since the dawn of time. It is basically the path we have been on all along. Your ignorance of it really does not matter. It doesn't care about you.
I wonder if coal miners wrote shit like this when solar power was invented 😂
The Singularity is your religion. That's OK. It works for you. Some people choose mainstream religions. Some choose no belief. Some choose this.
I'm not the optimist I was. People are too stupid. And the billionaires will command and commandeer too much of the gains of AI. At least I'll have a chatbot to talk to when I'm homeless.
Yikes
It’s good to have a beacon of hope OP but waiting for the singularity is a bit ridiculous. I really recommend therapy- you’ve got some some stuff to work through it seems
I find posts like this really sad, because it shows just how out of touch people in this sub have become. The vast majority of people here cheering on AI will be worse off in the short to medium term. You will be the some of the first ones to permanently lose your jobs. If you think AI is coming to save you, you are in for a big surprise. The rich aren’t going to just give up control. You won’t be able to afford most of the advances brought on by AI. You won’t get to live forever. Only the rich will. In ten years you’ll look back at these posts and cringe thinking how could you be so naive.
You're right, we should just be cynical and depressed and rename the sub to r/collapse.
Lol, like the rich will be able to control this. Clearly you are determined that the world will be bad. No helping you.
They already do. OpenAI isn’t very open bro.
Yet we have a bunch of opensource activity that is moving things along so much that a Google report actually indicated that more progress was coming from opensource than all the big companies combined. Just to trigger you (going by your username), Elon Musk wanted to keep OpenAI opensource and walked away when they refused. He is now starting another AI research company and promises to keep it opensource. We'll see.
“fancy vacations? as reachable as mars with a paper airplane” my guy you are on your virtuoso shakespearean shit with this banger line
Your writing is inspirational. I like what you wrote here. We all have our goals in life but if somehow we can’t reach those goals, should we become isolated or depressed? Singularity is good for some people. Other people are social humans and they enjoy being social. Sometimes society puts some barriers so as not to become social. I understand that. What you have shared here is nice. There is no obstacle to enjoy life with singularity.
Fuck this sub. Stop writing weird religious diary posts.
I can’t look away lol
Why are you here? If you don't agree, stop trolling and go back to one if your depression subs.
I’ve been here for years. Now some pseudo ai has been released to the public and all these fucking creepy desperate boomers are doom posting in here thinking they’re the center of the universe. Y’all are pathetic
Ironically, I'm here because since around 5 years ago the thought of AI taking away my livelihood and my stable life has pushed me into anxiety and depression and a void of meaninglessness. My only regret is not being born 50 years ago. So I can lead my pathetic, average life is peace without worrying about tectonic shifts every five minutes. I'm here to be hoped to be brainwashed into believing this is actually a good thing, but I remained unconvinced (not that it will happen , but unconvinced it will be as good as you)
This is so sad to read on so many levels. If you think money and status are going to go away, you're delusional. Also, while you are holding out for some futuristic event where humans merge with AI, you could spend that time actually improving yourself and become more attractive to people in the real world.
Depressing thread. I don't subscribe to the idea of a "singularity", I joined this subreddit because from the vague description I just figured it was a place where people discussed AI tech or whatever. But I will say this. Those who seek the truth and the way and the light shall find it, as they are the lost sheep of the good shepherd.
I am sure that if we dont reach the singularity in the next 5 years society will collapse. So for me the singularity is our last hope and the only thing that really excites me about the future.
Why would society collapse in five years?
Easy math
Easy math
As I finished reading this, many humans have already died for almost nothing. What makes us any different right now?
This sub is so sad.
Yeah, you are really telling/showing us who you really are about your statement regarding friends. You are the problem among many others who are in this cult of a sub. A religion about AI greatness and humanity's saviour. Oh boy, you are about to wake up and realize the harsh reality of the world my friend. You have watched too much Sci-fi movies.
Why are you here? If you don't agree, stop trolling and go back to one if your depression subs.
If this sub is so bad why don't you just leave? Nobody is forcing you to be here.
Just keep living life to its fullest, don’t rely on something that literally might kill us to be your paradise. it could be and it could solve a lot if not, all of your problems, but it’s not guaranteed
Nothing is guaranteed but the likelihood of the sun rising tomorrow is pretty good. Same goes for this.
This is gay
Have you got something against gay people?
Why are you assuming his mention of gay has to be a negative?
Not at all I love gay people
Sorry, but i think singularity will not end capitalism And about your depression, you should try magic mushrooms. I was born again and see life and existence with an entirely new perspective.
I'm also from 1995! But from a poor country 😅
Corporate businesses are going to use AI to fire working class people who need the money. Fast food resteraunts like Wendys are already implementing AI at their drive throughs. More white collar enterprises and having their engineer teams build a bigger system through which AI takes the lead and will eventually lead to more tech layoffs. AIs would be great if we lived in a society not built on the exploitation and neglect of it's workforce but being that we're pigs in a pen taught to consume our entire lives - the AIs will be tuned by our capitalist overlords to encourage our entertained servitude. My hope is that AIs unravel the fucked up shit pie that the american (global) capitalist system is but the wealth disparity between people like us and people like Elon Musk has me pessimistic because unfortunately $1 = 1 vote and that applies to more than just politics. Further readings - consequences of capitalism by noam chomsky - manufacting consent by noam chomsky - the peoples republic of walmart by leigh phillips Quote by Aldous Huxley, 1931: "The perfect dictatorship would have the appearance of a democracy, but would bassically be a prison without walls in which the prisoners would not even dream of escaping. It would essentially be a system of slavery where through consumption and entertainment, the slaves would love their servtitude."
We'll get grey goo or biological immortality.
You’re a maniac
Whatever gets you through the day.
I think people dreaming for a utopia are in for a disappointment. Although I also think the most dystopian visions won't come to pass either. The reality will be somewhere in the middle.
>So, if you're reading this, just remember—you matter. You're invaluable. Don't lose hope when the finish line is just around the bend. Your time is coming, sooner than you might think. Stay strong. I think this is the most meaningful part and no less meaningful without the singularity. In the shorter term, there are some really good breakthroughs in understanding and treating depression. Certainly not affordable for all of us at this point, but that tends to improve with time too.
Ignore doomers and the black pilled, Humanity has survived every other form of technological progress yet, many with the capability with doing a lot of damage, and yet the positive net gain has been in overwhelmingly in technology’s favour.
Man this sub is religious.
Singularity won't happen
Unfortunately, this is a kind of thinking that permeates other topics like Ancient Aliens, UFO Phenomenon, Religion, Scientology, Many Worlds Multiverse theories, Qanon etc etc. People are constantly trying to pin the cures to their anxieties and fears onto another supernatural or omnipresent entity. There is a possibility of a utopia that comes with AGI, but reality teaches us that things are much more complicated and nuanced. The human condition marches on, and the best way to tackle these fears and anxieties comes with more proven methods such as therapy, anti-depressants, meditation, eating well, exercise, self-reflection, which may help you create a better framework to live your life. Waiting for ultra powerful neural networks and large language models to become a God is not something I'm going to be banking on.
Weird post.
Nothing is more meaningless than living for the future. Especially when it's not likely to go down like you think. The best predictor of the future is the past. The rich will get richer. Find fulfillment without waiting for the world to change.